Pat Buchanan: It's the end of the world as we know it...
By Nicole Belle Saturday Jun 23, 2007 1:35pm
Everybody's favorite xenophobe Pat Buchanan was on Meet The Press this morning with dire predictions for this country. Was he worried about a Constitutional crisis that makes Watergate pale in comparison? Nah...Pat's convinced--convinced, I tell you--that the immigration bill is de facto amnesty and that's going to result in our borders being overrun and turning the US into a "third world nation."
Nothing like a little histrionic fear-mongering to start your day...
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Luckily, Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) is on hand to temper Buchanan's great "Brown People" fear by pointing out that this is hardly the first time that citizens of the US have been suspicious of new arrivals--in fact, not that long ago, Pat's Irish ancestors wouldn't have been looked upon well:
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Immigrants have contributed immensely to the fabric and the structure of our great American society and they continue to do so today. The same arguments Pat makes today are the arguments made in the past. They were wrong then and they're wrong today.
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Pat Buchanan is a bigot. Pat Buchanan has always been a bigot.
What a wingnut! (Frist, too.)
Dang.
BTW - C&L, I like the name requirement. No more pontificating "Anonymous" posters. Unless, of course, they actually type it in......
Only the Bush Administration want this country to go backwards!!
Once again, ONCE AGAIN, it begs the question of WHY a batshit crazy like Buchanan is even allowed to speak. Not on TV, mind you, but anywhere, anytime.
Raving lunatic.
Too bad Buchanan is right. Whether or not he is bigoted happens to be irrelevant.
Notice to liberals:
The supply of decent-paying jobs that cannot be outsourced is being deliberately devalued by unresrticted immigration in skilled and semi-skilled trades such as construction, plumbing, landscaping, and what's left of US manufacturing.
What will make the US like a third-world country will not be its ethnicity, but its standard of living.
Piss on the constitution and over 400 years of common law, what's really important is we can't let a large number of brown people to dilute the country. That's the real meaning of the Rule of Law.
O Pat, don't forget he was 100% right on the Iraq War and hates the NeoCons, but he is off on the Immigration question.
Just a Canadian perspective
P.S. he is also DEAD WRONG on Canada.
I wonder when someone is going to interview a native american on one of these talk shows. Surely they, of all people, know what it's like for their country to be overran by foreigners.
BOOO! The immigrants are coming!
"Immigrants have contributed immensely to the fabric and the structure of our great American society and they continue to do so today. The same arguments Pat makes today are the arguments made in the past."
Such self-righteous nonsense on the part of the blogger!
The US immigrants who contributed went through a lot to become legal citizens, and plenty were denied in the past.
Almost all other countries pick and choose from the best and the brightest for immigration and turn away a majority.
It's called the Rule of Law, something foreign to the US in the past 20 or so years.
Would it be too much to first demand these people be paid a living wage? My father worked in a high skill position for 38 years with the same company. When his generation retired, they were replaced with a whole bunch of 1st generation offspring of illegal Mexican immigrants. They were hired via contract labor instead of direct employment like my father. They are paid a fraction of what my father was making, do not get any retirement plan like my father did, and are NOT offered any benefits, including health insurance, LIKE MY FATHER HAD. What, on the surface, looks like something good you're doing for the Mexican downtrodden is, in all reality, well disguised corporate welfare.
Pat is a loser. His immigration arguments are insulting. Too bad the guy he was debating sounded like a whinny little snot and couldn't sit still for more than 2 seconds at a time.
Um, it is amnesty? It'd be like saying to someone who stole a $2000 stereo that he can keep it if he pays a $500 fine.
The left are way off on this issue. Anyone who doesn't like the idea of America being able to take on more immigrants than it can handle is automatically xenophobic. Also, if Bush tells you this bill isn't amnesty, you can pretty much be assured that it IS amnesty.
Anonymouse @ 11:
You know, I could take you much more seriously if it was obvious that you had watched the clips. Because then you'd know the context for the quote by Rep Gutierrez (as in, NOT ME).
But hey, why let context get in the way of your rant?
YOUR ALWAYS WRONG ON THIS ISSUE C&L. it is amnesty any way you slice it, seriously how can you be so consistently off track here. i get it that you have to pander to liberals but calling the destruction of our borders "just fear-mongering" yes, YES it is scary [deleted--try to make your point without insults] did it ever occur to you that NO NATION IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND HAS EVER EXISTED WITHOUT BODERS, IF YOU DONT CONTROL YOU BORDERS YOU DONT CONTROL YOUR COUNTRY,
[deleted--over the top] i challenge the staff to show me one country that has ever succeeded by getting rid of its borders, FIND ME ONE .you cant can you. ...............CHECKMATE I WIN.
one fact is true , if these pricks both demorat and republican are in such a hurry to pass the amnisty bill, its bad news for the working class american, the gold rush of 07 is on , and the new miners are crossing our borders just like they did before when reagan got amnisty for hundreads of thousands of law breakers, differentyear same shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watching President Bush getting pilloried by grassroots conservatives and his Republican allies alike usually tops any progressive's list of life's simple pleasures. But as Trent Lott and Mark Kirk showed this week, seeing the Congressional GOP get its hate on when it comes to Bush's immigration initiatives has become a truly disturbing spectacle.
For the bizarre details, see:
"Free Condoms and Herding Goats: The GOP on Mexican Immigration."
EVERYBODY PANIC!!! IRAQ HAS TEH WMDS!!!!
/Sunday talking-heads shows, circa 2002
Nicole Belle @ 15:
And avoid responding to the content of the "rant" and other agreeing commenters.
I would imagine the native Americans are a bit chagrined that they didn't throw up walls around the Americas in 1500. Buchanan could be living in a sod hut scratching aliving out of an acre of the Auld Sod.
Mike, you're going to have to show ME where we have ever endorsed the immigration bill. Ever.
I've made it a point of saying that we DO need to deal with this issue, but in a way that is intelligent and humane.
The fear that the US will be overtaken by brown people and become a third world nation (which is the statement Buchanan made and which I will never stop mocking) is more than a little histrionic, as our very history can show you.
Checkmate, Mike. You lost.
Lexus Liberals who support this worker amnesty bill are just like Republicans. Pulling the rug out from underneath working class Americans and creating a permanent underclass benefiting the rich sounds like a cause for a glass of champagne.
MIKE @ 16:
Since you've already declared yourself winner in the small, pathetic, ego-driven little world you live in, it's probably a moot issue replying to this stupid comment. But you issued the challenge so I'll answer it.
Now pay close attention here because it may be a country you aren't familiar with. It's called....
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
A country that has grown to become the largest, richest, most envied country on the planet. A country that has gotten to that epic size on the backs of immigrants. British Immigrants. Irish Immigrants. Canadian Immigrants. Asian Immigrants. Italian Immigrants. African Immigrants. Slavic Immigrants. Muslim Immigrants and yes... Many, many Mexican Immigrants. The very greatness Pat Buchanan and you with your scared little soul pretend to be proudly protecting was made great by the very people you and your ilk so ignorantly pretend to be trying to protect us from.
The funny part is that you and your type are nothing new. You were the "natives" standing on the piers of New York Harbor throwing rotten vegetables at the "Dirty Irish Immigrants" that were "invading our shores". From a historical standpoint, you are nothing more than testimony the perpetual nature of "Stupid".
I know I'm a liberal...always have been....and I don't consider myself a xenophobe by any stretch of the imagination...so, hang me...I agree with Pat Buchanan...yes, I too am looking for that blue moon...I never thought I'd see the day.
This bill is amnesty. And contrary to the ludicrous afguments that Rep. Gutierrez was fostering, that the illegal immigrants are coming from "Ireland and Poland" the fact remains, there are millions waiting legally now. There are also many who have come on Visas that have expired and melded into the population. It is a huge problem and the blame is multileveled.
I also agree that if Bush says "it is not amnesty" that it must be. If Bush told me the sun was rising in the East in the morning, I'd look West.
Yeah, I can't go with C&L on this one.
Over the last 25 years here in the U.S., the average CEO salary has gone from 40 times the average worker's salary to over 400 times the average worker's salary in an ever steeper decline into despotism. And your "humane" solution is to usher in an army of ever LOWER waged workers.
Got it.
I think Pat is right about the end of the world as we know it, but he is blaming the wrong people!
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian" - Pat Paulsen
Thanks to Dave of the Jungle |
The immigration problem is not the immigrants. The problem begins with the exploitation of the resources by U.S. corporations of these other countries. There is an oligarthy in Mexico that exploits the resources of their own people and country. The other problem is the employers of this country who don't want to obey our laws and pay a living wage. They not only cheat the worker but they also cheat the Social Security System. They don't withhold income taxes or SS taxes. If our congress and the president look at the real problem they would be able to solve it. Arrest and convict the illegal employer. If there no jobs for the illegal immigrant, they would not be coming across our borders in droves.
The US will become like a third-world nation not because of its ethnicity, but its standard of living.
That's Buchanan's point, and I'm no Buchanan-lover.
The type of immigration we have had for the last 30 years has been as disastrous for US workers as outsourcing.
Robertson is an ass, but amnesty is NOT the way.
Hear me out, OK? Then vilify me if you feel the need.
I am moving to the UK at the end of this year.
I have to apply for a Visa, pay the money and wait to be accepted.
I am able to do this for 2 reasons:
I am married to a British National AND I fit in under the highly skilled migrant program.
As a Sr Unix Administrator I have valuable skills. This is what will guarantee my acceptance.
Just being married to a national is not enough, if I were a coffee shop cashier I would in all probability be denied.
So I am having to jump through the hoops to move to a country that is considered a close ally.
If I and countless others around the world have to do it, why do illegal immigrants in the US get a free pass?
I say no free pass. Enforce the laws as they are already written and create a new fine structure for employers that damn near puts them out of business if they get caught hiring illegal workers.
Then go looking for the scofflaws and start fining them already!
And deport, just like the rest of the planet does. Just make sure that children aren't left homeless and hungry wondering where their parents are. Unite the families as fast as possible, then deport.
If I went to the UK without a Visa and tried to live there that is what would happen to me and my family.
Oh, and I wouldn't EVER be able to get a Visa for the UK again after.
Think about that.
Yeah- we should throw out those immigrants: they drink too much, they fight too much, and at the drop of a hat, they beat their women & kids, barely know how to feed themselves, they don't speak English very well, they are stupid and aren't good for much more than ditch digging......
throw the Irish out!
(snark)
24 Nate Says:
Don't be disingenuous Nate, those immigrants had to get processed as well. They were granted or denied Visa's at the docks because that's the way it was done back then.
They went through the system and were registered Nate, they didn't run across the border and hide in our cities.
By the way, Nate, you should really stop calling the US the "Richest" country.
That hasn't been true since the administration of Ronald RAYGUN.
We are now actually the greatest DEBTOR in the history of the world.
I'm sure China and Saudi Arabia, the largest suppliers of out consumption habits, are much richer in terms of hard assets.
Ugh. The problem here isn't Pat Buchanan being a racist, the problem is the media still putting these assholes on TV. What the hell could Pat Buchanan add to the political discourse? You might as well just grab the Klan guy off of the Stern show and ask him.
Any person who supports this amnesty bill under the false pretenses that it's good for the immigrant, when it mostly benefits corporations fits best the description of "concern troll".
Gary @ 15:
No, the left simply have perspective on the issue. They don't think that the number one problem threatening to destroy the fabric of our country is illegal immigration, contrary to what the wingnuts seem to believe.
I am liberal, I drive audi's, and I do not think we should give them amnesty...
I think its wrong...on a number of levels...
One of those levels is how we have used the countries these people come from like a private stash for resources...and world bank scam loans, has made a very small minority very rich, while the rest of the population in that country barely has a pot to piss in.
Number two... The companies that hire these workers and individual persons that do are another major problem... They want cheap labor....so they can have more money in their pockets at the end of the day. That in turn assists the flat spin that the working class is in as they are under bid on the jobs that normally they would do.
Another thing
... We are a third world nation.. We do not make very much in this country anymore, but we sure do export raw materials. And when a country is exporting raw materials and not manufacturing much, they are deemed third world status. Look at our infant mortality rates.. our discrepancies between mega rich and debt rich/poor (ie 95% of all of us) and the list can go on and on...
Pope Todd @ 33:
You're the one being disingenuous Pope Todd. Your statement explicitly implies that Mexican immigrants have that option. If you broke down the per capita percentage of Irish Immigrants who were ALLOWED to be processed into the US, it would be somewhere on a scale of 10,000 to 1. Meaning that based on the country's population at that time, the amount of Mexican immigrants who would need to be LEGALLY allowed in to the US would have to be about 15 Million per year.
To imply that the current wave of people determined to seek a better life in the US need only but to APPLY and suddenly they'll be given the keys to the brass ring is naive at best, flat out deceptive at worst.
I've gotta agree with the "xenophobes" on this one. I left California because the uncontrolled illegal immigration of Mexicans swamped the schools, social services and law enforcement of the state. For what? Cheap food and lawn maintenance? Individually, Mexicans are no different than any other nationality. The problem is that we don't have, and are unwilling to spend, the money it would take to properly educated the children of these immigrants in the numbers that are here.
Jail for those who employ illegal workers. That is the only solution.
BTW, if Bush is for something, what does that tell you?
[Deleted. Thanks, but no thanks for your concern-Sitemonitor]
At least the Irish spoke english...
Go look up the answers to these questions and then someone answer me why it is ok for this large number of people from the south to be moving here illegally at this time in history?
What major events in the past happened in the immigrants homelands that led to them coming to America in large numbers?
What major event(if any) is happening in Mexico making them come to America?
How much of America was populated when the major immigrant influxes occured in the past?
How much of America is populated today?
How many people can America support with its current economic system before the average quality of life level drops?
How many people are going to be added to the total when all the children and grand children of everyone is taken into account?
As computer automation takes over more and more jobs and immigrants taking many others. What are the average Americans going to do for employment?
There are REAL questions that have NOTHING to do with brown people.
Ever heard of the word illegal? We have an immigration law. Secure the border and send them home.
Nicole, the links disappered. I can't watch.
As long as we are used to having cheap food this will always be a problem. As long as certain monied classes insist on having cheap help this will always be a problem. As long as we have countries (Mexico included) where yearly earnings are pitifully low, this will always be a problem. Walls are not going to solve this problem. Working with communities and local economies so that people will not want to leave their country because living there is good is the start of the solution. I know that is a pipedream, but that would be more constructive than building walls, and fighting wars that cannot be won.
Site Monitor: We're trying to find out what happened to the links.
In the days of the NAFTA debate, I found myself agreeing only with Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, and Ross Perot.
I can't stand any of them, but they were right about its impact on American workers.
The liberals in office are so hamstrung by touchy-feeliness that they ignore the economic interests of most of their constituents.
How about some compassion and humanity for American citizens?
[deleted--you are not welcome to insult the site on the owner's bandwidth]...I mean if you really are defending the LAW you would choose sides with Buchanan..otherwise you are a Crook and/or a Liar.....its called illegal immigration for a reason. Why would you not attack the left for wanting actual law to be overturned....
Site Monitor: We've never pretended to not have our own political agenda. However, if you read Nicole's post above, you'll see that she is not suggesting that we open our borders.
Indeed... With all the issues we SERIOUSLY have to worry about..
Gays and Illegals is what we are being directed too...
Sigh...
And they wonder why they lose!
It can be easily demonstrated that at this stage that the Clintons have become pawns of trans-national corporations. I wonder alot lately if C&L's strange position on this worker amnesty bill which, in effect, creates an endentured service program against poor people from despotic Mexico, is a result of that meeting Clinton had with Amato and the other bloggers, all of whom are marching lok-step with Nicole's (IMO warped) perspective on this issue.
Because most people, Dems and Repukes alike, see this for what it is - a corporate welfare program. Since when did helping despotism along become a "liberal" ideal?
Well you know, at the rate this administration has been going and after 6 years without checks and balances, (and the challenge the dems face in undoing so much damage - plus some of them being sellouts to big money themselves) I can see how our country could slip into 3rd world status. There will be the royalty (The CEOs, movie stars and sports heroes with their billion dollar salaries.) And then there will be the rest of us... groveling and scrimping for health care and neccessities. We won't have to worry about what kind of mileage our cars get because we won't be able to afford gas or cars anyway. We'll be saving our money to walk to the store to buy food and it won't matter what country we were born in or what color our skin is either.
And as for the current topic, I do resent it when somebody comes into the doctor's office where I work, they have been in the US for 20 years, they do not speak English, they have hardly ever worked, BUT they have Medicaid or Medicare insurance. I work my butt off AND I have to pay for my health insurance and pay a co-pay or the deductible when I go to the doctor. I feel like some kind of a tax paying sucker when this happens.
Press 1 for English.
What racist reactionaries like Buchanan don't understand is that it's not brown people that make third world nations, its POLICIES. The very same foreign policies of propping up ruthless dictators to repress the population while transnational corporations loot them, that the right is famous for, in fact.
Yes, illegal immigration is illegal. So is double parking. No, I don't have to agree with Buchanan that an issue like double parking is the most important issue facing America, that we are doomed if we don't eliminate all double parkikng. Now can we move on to more important issues ?
Jeannie See @ 47:
Thanks Site Monitor.
I've been following C&L for a couple of years now, and since this bill came into the public eye I haven't seen anything that would suggest an endorsement of the bill, or any kind of opinion on amnesty. What I've seen are posts like today that question the motives of those who have been most successful at framing the debate in "us vs. them" terms. Unfortunately, too many of them have been racists like Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly who whine about losing their white, Christian male dominance.
This isn't a yes-or-no issue. I struggle with it every day. Is it possible to have an immigration policy that respects the rule of law (something too many Republicans have failed to do) while actually dealing with the issues that drive immigrants here in the first place? I don't know. But I haven't seen too many pundits who seem truly interested in finding the answers.
... It is not akin to 10 people Double Parking.. Don't insult the issue.
It is more akin to 100,000,000 people double parking... Sucking up space that we need to drive on..
Fact is we only have so much room to drive on. We only have so much load that we can handle...
It is the working class, the middle class that is endangered by this policy.. at the end of the day the very wealthy will still be that way... and you and I will be worse off.
We need to make the immigration Legal... And we need to do more to make their home countries less of a mud hole, which is due to our tentacles anyway.
However...This is just a piece to the larger plan.
And nothing will be really done about it...
The border are opened now and have alway been opened. This fear of brown people is racist and without merit.
Face it, allowing amnesty will help white people, just as affirmative action does.
Pat is a bigot, but the rep was very disingenuous with some of his comments as well. Overall, not a great debate from either side.
The only intelligent comment in the whole thing was when Buchanan said that Corporations have to stop providing jobs to illegal immigrants. He's right. they should be fined millions of dollars and held strictly liable when they hire illegal immigrants. They should be paying people legally entitled to work here livable wages instead of breaking the law and looking the other way.
I live in California. In fact, I live in an area that has a large number of Mexican farm workers. I would be willing to bet that many of them are illegal, as a friend of mine's wife is Mexican and said as much.
And yet, I am doing fine. They do no "suck up space". California has one of the strongest economies and some of the largest number of illegal aliens. I don't think it is racist to want to close the borders, but I think this is, for the most part, a relatively small issue. Like double parking. I think the real fear is the largely unwarranted fear that terrorists are also slipping through our borders with the illegals. Consider what the illegals have to go through, I think that is an hysterical fear.
The only immigrants America should let in are the ones that we have a need for. We do need farm workers, seasonal. We don't need foreign construction workers or roofers or drywall installers. Those jobs are being given to illegals to keep wages down- period. The illegals are typically exploited in ways that are illegal and won't work on free Americans.
The Repugs love this because the illegals pay income and S.S. taxes and get zero benefit because they use phony numbers.
The current illegals should receive no amnesty, indeed, they should be hunted down and deported ASAP. They have kids born here? No problem. Send the kids back with their parents.
February 18, 2007
The Nation
Nafta Should Have Stopped Illegal Immigration, Right?
By LOUIS UCHITELLE
THE North American Free Trade Agreement, enacted by Congress 14 years ago, held out an alluring promise: the agreement would reduce illegal immigration from Mexico. Mexicans, the argument went, would enjoy the prosperity and employment that the trade agreement would undoubtedly generate — and not feel the need to cross the border into the United States.
But today the number of illegal migrants has only continued to rise. Why didn’t Nafta curb this immigration? The answer is complicated, of course. But a major factor lies in the assumptions made in drafting the trade agreement, assumptions about the way governments would behave (that is, rationally) and the way markets would respond (rationally, as well).
Neither happened, yet Nafta remains the model for trade agreements with developing Latin countries, including the Central American Free Trade Agreement, passed by Congress in 2005. Three more Nafta-like agreements are now pending in Congress — with Panama, Columbia and Peru.[deleted--too long, just link and excerpt at most.]
http://tinyurl.com/2nglbv
...and Italians weren't considered 'white' until the 1920's. So maybe Rudy is as much a breakthrough candidate as Barack or Hillary.
Otay @ 60:
I live in Los Angeles and the sheer number of people is a problem. Our public health and school systems are in shambles. Those farm works are being abused by the system and don't have rights because they're illegal. it erodes other jobs and allows the employers to come away like bandits because illegal immigrants are afraid to assert rights. The only ones who win when we allow illegal immigrants here are the corporations and businesses illegally hiring them.
Also, to give amnesty is a kick in the face to the people I know who are currently in the process of obtaining legal citizenship.
It's a complex issue and nobody in government really has the balls to address it.
It is amazing to me that some posters in here think that this is a non issue. This is without a doubt one of the biggest problems we are currently facing. Our tax dollars are being sucked dry to build new schools and pay for medical care and other infrastructure to pay for these illegals. At the current rate illegal aliens take 3 times what they pay into social services. If you think that is a non issue then I expect to see you paying for these things instead of my tax dollars.
If this country is assessed on it's last 2 presidential elections, debt and health care system we already look like a third world nation.
I provided #41 above, which generated this: [Deleted. Thanks, but no thanks for your concern-Sitemonitor]
I'll be writing to Amato about this, since I've commented here several times in the past and my comments haven't been deleted. And, my comment pointed out that Gutierrez was acting in the WSJ role, with Buchanan defending American workers. And, it linked to my discussion of the debate.
In fact, Nicole Belle previously responded to a comment I left here. In that spirit, perhaps she can explain exactly why my comment was deleted and what was wrong with it.
[Pick one name and stick with it. Never having been deleted before doesn't indemnify you from ever being deleted. Feel free to drop John Amato a line-Sitemonitor]
Pat is indeed a bigot, and scared of "brown people," but that does not make this bill a great idea. I'm a proud liberal, but even I can see that illegal immigration is harmful to the US. It might not lead to the apocalypse as Pat would have us believe, and probably isn't as big a deal as Iraq or eroding civil liberties, but it still should be given more consideration than this knee-jerk "with us or you're a bigot/xenophobe" crap some on the left are giving it. And please don't say I'm not really a liberal because of this opinion, 'cause that would just prove my point.
Just imagine how the supreme court and cable news commentary would look today if the Irish hadn't been allowed in......
39 Nate Says:
Again you are being disingenuous Nate.
They have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else.
You are suggesting that there be a dual system of immigration policy, one for Mexicans and another for the rest of the world.
If they are not qualified enough or do not have the resources to apply the legal and proscribed way then they are out of luck and will have to find a way to be able to do so BEFORE entering US borders. Just like everyone else.
One law for some and another law for the rest is NOT what this nation was founded on, though it is exactly what the NeoCons are working so hard to implement.
Before you start typing ignorance perhaps you should go to your local Desi community and see how many are illegal.
The ones I work with applied, got work Visa's and will be GOING HOME after their Visa expires.
Don't just go opposite on what a Republican says just because he is a Republican, that is just stupid and it's what they do to us. Use your head, OK?
Any big city has problems, in large part due to the large number of people. Whether comprised of illegals or not, these cities will have problems. Is the issue with big cities a new, life-threatening issue with America? I doubt it.
And "one of the biggest problems"? I doubt it.
anyone who thinks about the miles of shacks and ghettoes in every nation of the world .. especially in the so called third world nations ..and also in most every major US city..
and ask yourself this question ...are these people slackers, or unlucky ,, or lazy,, or supid???
or are they just the unfortunate that have benn used by the elite ?
are they just the one's that have had their lives stolen from them to enable more filthy rich people ,to get richer
the parade goes on as it has for hundreds of years ,
but has it gotten worse because the elites have just expanded thier families and now need sooo much more?
Before saying anything about immigration you should go to this site and read about the mistreatment of the workers and how most of them got here. Still trying to figure out why Pats word gets any respect
http://www.splcenter.org/legal/guestreport/guest10.jsp
and so it goes
Rach @ 68:
I agree 100%
What a hell! [Deleted. What the hell, indeed. you've been banned-Sitemonitor]
Nicole,
It appears that PC emotional logic is taking over many. The fact is, these people have intentionally broken our laws. When they have a baby here it is an intentional act of disrespect for us. Fact are facts, emotional rants are not. I am a second generation LEGAL emigrant and a Hollywood resident, I've seen first hand what the illegals have done.
Aside from the myriad other issues from the graffiti, furniture dumping on the streets, refusal to learn English, gangs, the over-breeding and over-populating of the schools, vandalism like keying cars and breaking civic property, 84 hospitals closing their doors, etc., a few of the easily researched criminal statistics not including drunk driving stats, the fact that 90 percent of all murder warrants in LA our for illegals, etc. are these:
Non-citizen criminals are a growing threat to public safety and national security, as well as a drain on our scarce criminal justice resources. In 1980 our prisons housed about 9,000 criminal aliens. By the end of 1999 it was over 68,000 who today, account for over 29 percent of Fed prisoners. Among the alien federal prisoners, 55% were illegally in the United States at the time of their conviction.
Their incarceration cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
New York State estimates the annual criminal justice costs for criminal aliens in New York is $270 million. The Committee has called for a national moratorium on immigration to help alleviate this problem.
Illinois Governor’s Office says it spends over $40 million just on the incarceration of criminal aliens.
Florida’s judicial and correction system a cost for criminal aliens was $73 million in 1993.
In 1988, there were 5,500 illegal immigrants in California’s prisons. By fiscal year 1994- 1995, that is estimated to have increased to more than 18,000. California taxpayers have spent over a billion dollars in the last five years to keep these convicted felons in prison.
Based on Census Bureau data...when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. If there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would
grow to nearly $29 billion.
Do your homework folks. It is easy to call people a racist and feel you have championed some cause or another. I've been a political and social activist for decades. We are a nation based on laws. If we allow PC emotional rants to prevail we will loose our country.
Pat may have been a racist in the past, and perhaps even now, but people aren't bad or wrong all the time. In this case he is far ahead of the curve on understanding what is going on in our country and the agenda of the New World Order.
BTW: I really like the update to the comments, thank you.
Not anymore. Don't you read this website?
this is not about immigration...it is about "illegal" immigration....pat's ancestors didnt come here illegally, so the argument is spurious.
and if this bill passes, yes, life as we know it is done
outsourcing, insourcing, guest worker programs, expanded work visa programs, will all help to destroy the middle class
and what about those that have gone about the immigration process the right and legal way...why should they continue?
just come to this country, hang out for a few years and you too can skirt the law
ALL IS GOING AS PLANNED..
your country has been disappearing since, REAGUN ZAP !!
Free speech would be nice...
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chomsky
Walk the Walk...
Let them post... Let us handle their stupidity...
Thats half the fun with a forum...
When they spam delete them ... but please do not just censor... I dont care who does it left or right... censorship is crap...(even on a privately owned website)
Site Monitor: Sorry, you don't believe the site owner has a right to determine content on his own site. We disagree. Tell you what: how about you starting your own blog and the site team will go over there and say whatever we want and tell you that you have no right to determine the appropriateness. Deal?
Too bad Pat is right on this issue.
http://skymail-immigration.blogspot.com/
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/03/hidden_cost_of_.html
http://www.immigrationcounters.com/
My world is turned upside down when Pat Buchanan starts to make sense.
I am wondering exactly what qualifies Pat Buchanan to speak as though he's an expert on all aspect of the immigration issue.
spicegal @ 84:
The same thing that qualifies Rep. Gutierrez, or you, or I?
This has been Pat's "issue" for some time, whether you agree or not I'm sure he's done more research than most of us.
Those who cry wolf.
I really wish people would stop throwing words like racist and hate brown people around. Just because we want immigrants to come to this country legally not illegally does not make us racist. Using these words in such a frivolous manner diminishes their meaning.
Anti-illegal alien does not equal racist.
Stop crying wolf.
This won't become a third world nation, they are far too m any ultra-rich for that folly, but as for the middle class, THEY will be sent to the bottom earners.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 79:
Uncle Joe, you understand the bigger picture. John Carpenter in his 1998 movie They Live gave a character a very brilliant speech, which included this:
"...We have been lulled into a trance...they are dismantling the sleeping middle class. More and more people are becoming poor. We are their cattle. We are being bred for slavery."
While it is sometimes a needle in a haystack sort of task, searching the web, one can find great truth and insights that have no political or philosophical agenda beyond autonomy. People need to search for terms like: Influence of illegal aliens, the New World Order, a prison planet, etc. in order to get information that may be startling in it's revelations, but necessary for our freedom.
Is it such a crime for Pat wanting to see Americans get a fair and equal chance in there own country as these immigrants are..They are being chosen over the youth of today..I have friends who are illegal and they are not bad people whatsoever. They have committed a serious offense in my view by entering this country illegally. Cops aren't even allowed to enforce the laws that are already in place. This isn't rocket science. It is the law that is being deteriorated by liberals and republicans who are working with big business that hire these people at low wages so they can make a bigger profit. This bill does not protect the border. It protects corporate special interest painted as something compassionate. Immigration reform should start with border security not amnesty. Pat Buchanan is an brilliant American. Though he had tough times with Nixon, he does speak from his heart and not from special interests point of views. He stands for justice and liberty and opposed the Iraq war from the beginning. People could learn a lot from this man if they only listened.
Immigrants=good. Illegal immigrants=bad. No one disputes that immigrants are ok for the usa. But it is dishonest to paint those who oppose illegal immigrants and anti-immigration. I oppose illegal immigrants 10000000% and everyone else should too. But those who do not oppose illegal immigration are the following: 1. Business owners who do not want to pay the federally mandated miniumn wage for americans (which makes them anti-american) 2. Relatives of illegal immigrants 3. Illegal immigrants, themselves 4. People who are so wealthy that the communities of illegal aliens and their crimes never reach their door steps.
What's more infuritating is that Bush & the GOP have done nothing for americans since day one. It's either all about Iraq, illegal aliens/mexicans, or their wealthy, bible-thumping war-profiteering friends and oil barons. Meanwhile, average americans are getting stomped on by paying the burden of the war and illegal aliens.
I'm tolerant for average americans. But I do not have an ounce of sympathy for illegal aliens. I've seen the truth of what these people are really about with my own eyes.
we are in the midst of a Constitutional crisis and it has absolutely nothing to do with immigration, which is the latest flag burning issue.
We have had the Vice President and now the President declare that they are above the law and not part of the executive branch of the government. Effectively leaving us without an executive.
The crisis is made worse by a cowardly and self neutered congress who allows these criminals to get away with breaking the laws because it would be politically tough to hold them to account.
Dick Cheney and George Bush believe themselves to be above the laws of this country and they are absolutely correct. Who is going to hold them to the oaths and the laws they swore to uphold? Nancy Pelosi???? NO!!! Harry Reid???? NO!!!! Arlen Specter???? Are you kidding???? NO!!!!
Dick Cheney and George Bush have effectively pulled off a Coup de ta. They have taken over our government, and are above all laws.
Pat's probably not all that far off. I agree with the loon.
american_citizen @ 82:
I wonder how people who have had their SSNs and their identities stolen by illegal immigrants feel about illegal immigration?
I also wonder how those Union Meatpackers feel about their unions being destroyed and illegal immigrants taking their jobs?
How is this good for Americans?
Also, to be against illegal immigration is not racist. My grandparents immigrated here from Russia, they had to let go of their country and their relatives, they learned english, they didn't steal, they waited in long lines, they even shortened their last name so the forms would be easier for the immigration officials to deal with.
They learned english right away, they spoke english at home and made a commitment to being Americans. They didn't wave Russian flags...
Compare that to stealing SSNs, identity theft, bringing down wages for the lower class, anchor babies, crowded schools dumbed down by kids who speak not a word of english, prisons filled to the brim with violent gang members from other countries, crowded emergency rooms filled with illegal immigrants demanding free medical services, and crowding out our low income people from even renting an apt.
Why should we reward anyone for this sort of lawlessness?
C'mon Pat, these are good Catholic folks moving in.
What's the problem?
Strong family, bigtime breeders, hard workers.
I thought these were the kind of people you love.
american_citizen has my vote for president! =D
Capt. Arboriginal: "C’mon Pat, these are good Catholic folks moving in.
What’s the problem?
Strong family, bigtime breeders, hard workers.
I thought these were the kind of people you love."
Hey Capt. I'm sure he loves them as long as they are legal americans. Baiting people into supporting illegal aliens is infantile. You have a room temperature IQ.
To frank costa #93
Thanks for the good links.
From the looks of things on this board a lot of Dems are really pissed about this issue. Please call your congress person and demand they put citizens first and fund the enforcement of existing laws. What needs to be done is to make the illegal aliens uncomfortable living here, as long as they are being catered to by business and government policies they will invade.
Being against illegal immigration is not racist, it is patriotic.
American Citizen:
I HAVE had my ID stolen and used for illegal purposes--by an American citizen.
I also have to wonder how those Union meatpackers feel about Republican policies and union busting lawyers.
I'm not defending illegal immigration. I just think it's wrong to focus on illegal immigration as the cause of all society's evils. I know someone who is an American citizen who lives on General Assistance and disability bitching about how illegals are driving up the cost of healthcare, nevermind that he's doing his own part in that as well.
We have laws on the books now that are not enforced. Our government's answer is to create MORE laws, more bureaucracy. How is THAT good for Americans? How about we go after employers that will hire illegals for slave wages before we start screaming about how illegal aliens are the root of all that is wrong?
The USA desperately needs it strong unions back. Who among you has any voice in labour these days? Anyone?
If this year (2007) all the undocumented workers were rounded up and deported we would immediately be paying $9.00 for a head of lettuce. 2008 it would be $14.00. That may be what it takes to dislodge capitalism.
To Nichole Bell #99
I know someone who is an American citizen who lives on General Assistance and disability bitching about how illegals are driving up the cost of healthcare, nevermind that he’s doing his own part in that as well.
Yes, lets blame the disabled americans that are legally here for all our ills instead. Hell, lets beat up on disabled vets while we are at it.
...
Wait, I'm not going to do that because that would be stupid.
*sigh...
That is the kind of response I would expect from this site as of late... It is not the point or the issue... Which basically stems from the zealotry with deletion of comments and edits this site does. Sure you control the content of the site, you do not see any of us with the ability to post articles, and link videos on the main page... but this is the comment, discussion area... and I am part of your base, I see a growing trend that makes me uncomfortable (in which I am positive I am not alone)... So I am speaking out.. and you are hence lashing out at me for telling you there is a problem!! ...Geeee I wonder whom else would do something like that???....
You know I did play a small part in making this site what it is today, I have been at this site since the very early days and spread its worth and message on forums and over the radio...and even do to this day.
So I do not appreciate your flippancy, or give viable gravity to your justifications---which of course you will certainly agree with... as they do not hold a candle to the statement regarding free speech...
This is not a personal, private blog... Nor should we all be corralled into a cesspool of automaton utopia where nothing ever really gets accomplished... if you want to do that charge membership fees... It does not work on Freeprepublic... or the "left's" own "Freep land".. Democracy Underground ... Both of which are bastions of ideology... and hence both are trite crap... Granted I do identify more on DU then I ever will on Freeperville.. however that does not stop the fact that they both stand on private ownership of the site as authority to discuss politics and censor anyone they want...
And that is why they both suck and that is why they are both ranked lower then Crooks and Liars...
I take the statement by Chomsky to heart ...because it is correct and true, even if it is a tough pill to swallow!... (Especially when you have ABSOLUTE POWER~!)
“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
-Noam Chomsky
Have I been censored?
No...well maybe a time or two...but thats because I was furious and perhaps wrote something advocating violence.
But I am not writing this out of personal interest... you have not banned my friends, or censored their posts.. I don't know them... and I probably do not even agree with them...
But that is not the point.
I mean seriously... what is next, you guys gonna post an video of Orielly Cutting the mic of someone he does not agree with??...
Try not to slide down the path of ideological hypocrisy...
I only say this because I love you.
.... Wth happened to my comment?
Word press ate it..
[Sorry your post did not go up immediately rduke. Things are still getting caught in the spam filter. Thanks for your feedback-Sitemonitor]
Its cool.. I thought it was a cache issue...
Anyway I still love you.
Stop calling illegal aliens "immigrants." They're not legal immigrants. This is the Democratic brain on all the illegal drugs the hispanics bring across the border, I guess. Why do we keep having this issue cycle around? The border was supposed to be secured in 1986 after 3 million Mexicans were amnestied. It never happened and it won't happen now.
Pat Buchanan is absolutely right on this one. If this bill is pushed through, the U. S. is so over. You and other liberal blogs can make fun of people who oppose this legislation if you want, but I guess as legal citizens who are paying for all of this, we have a right to rant against it if we want. Just show me how anything the U. S. Chamber of Commerce (chamber of horrors, more like) and BushCo are pushing could be a good thing for this country as a whole. Can't do it.
american_citizen @ 102:
First, it's NICOLE BELLE, and written right there for you to copy.
Second, if what you've derived from my post is that we should blame disabled Americans, then you clearly are not willing to address the post with anything resembling intellectual honesty and all further dialog is unnecessary.
Pat’s convinced–convinced, I tell you–that the immigration bill is de facto amnesty and that’s going to result in our borders being overrun and turning the US into a “third world nation.”
Memo to Buchanan: With American jobs being outsourced, the US manufacturing sector decimated by cheap Chinese crap flooding our markets, wages of most Americans either stagnated or falling, our educational "system" which is the joke of the industrialized world; no healthcare for poor or working people, the US already IS turning into a third world country. But that's all good for Pat as long as those goddamn wetbacks stay on their side of the border, right Pat?
Call your Congress people and tell them to vote against this bill and instead fund the enforcement of existing laws. We can stop the flow of illegal immigration by enforcing the existing laws instead of catering to the lawless by giving them whatever they want if they just (*pretty please with amnesty on top*) stop breaking the law.
The solutions to our porous borders and a virtual tsunami of illegal immigration seem pretty simple to me but, trouble is, they're also extremely painful. And yes, I don't like them much better than any of you do.
First: secure the borders. Not just kind of token ho-hum catch-them-if-you-can, but rather seriously increase patrols and surveillance. (Where is our National Guard when we need it? Oh...Iraq, you say?)
Second (and oh, how my liberal heart hates this one!): issue national fingerprint or retinal scan ID cards to all US citizens. I know, I know, it sounds positively Orwellian (but just think of it as a glorified driver's license/social security card and it doesn't hurt quite so much; we already have to have those and I don't notice many folks gnashing their teeth over it). Maybe if we weigh the pros and cons awhile we can get used to the idea. Maybe.
Third: seriously criminalize the hiring of illegals. (c'mon, put some teeth into it.)
Fourth: create a national registry for the 13 million plus illegals already residing in this country. Sign up, get "probationary citizenship" cards for you and your family, and you can pay taxes, contribute to Social Security, and enjoy the same privileges as any US citizen. At the end of ten years, you will be granted citizenship. with one caveat: should you, at any time during that probationary period be found guilty of any felony, back you go to your country of origin -- after serving a prison sentence, of course. No more gracious hospitality for you, dude.
Fifth: disallow importation of goods produced by countries or international corporations which fail to meet humane standards of fair wages and human decency. (Why come here for what you have there?)
Do I have all the answers or even the right answers? Possibly not. Why don't we collectively try to figure out this mess, instead of wasting time hammering each other? Quite frankly, I've given up believing that politicians know what's best for our country. Seems like a whole awful lot of them are no brighter than their dumbest constituents.
gempi: it's not about cheap food. It's about CEO wages that are totally out of control This country is run by conservative corporations and the American people are the losers on every hand.
Why do our elected representatives desert us and work to enable foreign nationals to break our laws and take our jobs? Because they only care about their own fortunes. There are no leaders in this country anymore in either party. Oh, just like Mexico--a corrupt oligarchy of plutocrats.
Better refugee to Canada, or Switzerland, or Monaco. Yah, Monaco sounds good-plenty of money, no military and a benevolent monarch.
Pat Buchannan is playing the race card. Although illegal immigrants have bankrupted the treasury, they are booming the economy. Imagine millions of them buying computers, visiting wal-mart, working in the restaurants, agriculture, buying homes, etc.
It all started with CLINTON/GORE election, whereby they decided to gain votes from the latino immigrants. Bush followed the footsteps, gained votes, and won the election.
Indubio
you cannot be a progressive attempting to spread the big lie
fact....in agribiz, labor is a miniscule cost....miniscule
so no, if illegal immigrants werent doing migrant labor, lettuce would not jump to 5bux a head...or 8 or 14
thx for buying the lies
now you can post big lie number 2....illegals do the jobs americans wont
It is the end of the world. Buchannan is aware that U.S. and Europe is creating one world order with no borders attached.
U.S. is currently bending the will of the Arabs since they are holding onto their borders. Good luck, America!
cyberen @ 10:
No shit. And yet, the immigrants that took over their country are calling foul.
muldoon
i accept every point except the granting of probationary citizenship to those here illegally
again....what do you say to those who have followed the laws and emmigrated here legally?
look...these people all came here with the knowledge that they could be deported at any time
tyree @ 18:
Hi tyree. I bought that bottle of bleach. I'm ready for your comments now. :lol:
To Toddlover #114
No, Gore had the best voting record on illegal immigration of all of them. Things would have been different had Gore been president.
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez08_dem1.html
Look at the voting records and see for yourself.
I just saw Bernie Sanders, the most liberal person in Congress, on TV. He said the "immigration reform" bill should be killed immediately. It will destroy American labor and finish off the economy of the U. S.
Bernie Sanders is no xenophobic knee-jerk conservative.
I am a life long Democrat, always have been, always will be. Having said that, I will only vote for a candidate that will 1) End the god damned war. 2) Kick anyone in this country illegally out.
My great grandparents came here LEGALLY. LEGALLY. LEGALLY. I have 3 nephews that enlisted due to lack of job opps because of offshoring and illegal imigration. I wonder how many of you will feel the slightest twinge of guilt knowing Pedro got a job while Denny, Tony or Geno had some body part blown off.......
Anyone that thinks Jesus getting a job is more important than keeping our own here can suck my dick...
fwacbar @ 120:
fwacbar: good post. You bring a completely new perspective to this issue.
Of course, one of my crazy christian conservative relatives said recently to my WWII veteran father that we'll be glad we had the Iraq war and it's so nice that only 3000 people have been killed instead of thousands. (Of course, thousands of innocent Iraqi's have been killed).
What I would like to say to this person is, what if we ONLY had 3000 abortions this year. Would you think that was great progress and we should happy about it?
BRING THE TROOPS HOME, NOW.
Nicole Belle @ 107:
Oh silly me I forgot to type an "e".
However, had you looked over my links, you would also question how illegal immigration is good for American citizens like I do. You haven't, so the idea that I am being intellectually dishonest is intellectually dishonest of you. If you want to consider the whole issue, fine, but you seem to only fixate on what you think is important; ie Pat Buchannan.
I think Pat, like a broken clock, he is right sometimes. At least he hates neo-cons like the ones running things right now. Makes him right about 2 things, just like a broken clock twice a day.
I am able to consider views that don't reflect my own and I don't get off track by bringing up some poor American that is on disability to make my point. Unless you are a doctor and you have examined this fellow I don't think you have a right to use him as an example.
To: american_citizen:
I agree. It is not about voting records, rather implementing a policy with set of rules whereby citizens of all the world can look up to. We don’t pick and choose just because they are our neighbors. We have to abide by international laws.
Nader disrupted Gore’s chance of winning. Of course, stealing is big on Bush-made presidency
Buchanan may be a xenophobe, but the country has territorial boundaries for a reason, and they should be respected.
It's illegal "MIGRATION," not immigration. Anyone who doesn't come in throught the immigration process can technically "NOT" be referred to as an immigrant.
I don't feel sorry for anyone who would rather come up here and march in the streets demanding rights, but wouldn't do the same in the country they fled.
The fallacies that all you seem to either miss or ignore are that:
(A) ILLEGAL immigrants in this country are here ILLEGALLY. I have dozens of immigrant friends and coworkers who have gone through the legal immigration process which takes YEARS to complete.
I live in Texas. I am a Democrat. I detest George Bush and the Republican Party.
But, I am not willing to abide the wholesale surrender of our borders or the turn
of a blind eye to those who defy our legal system for the sake of sending the gringo
dollar south.
(B) There is absolutely no racial component to this issue, as much as talking heads like Geraldo the Mensan would like you to believe. That argument bores me.
Labor is a commodity. It has a value and there is a market for it. Labor will be priced at whatever the market will bear. The notion that illegals "take jobs that Ameircans won't do" is a popular lie. Illegal laborers are willing to do jobs at a pay rate that will not sustain an American family. So, they're hired at fractional wages and drive the COST of the LABOR in these MARKETS DOWN. If you're for selling America's working poor down the river, then support amnesty, or better yet, a completely open border with Mexico, as the Wall Street Journal has trumpeted for years. For the CITIZENS of this country whose lives you are willing to devalue just for the sake of opening our arms to the huddled masses, it's a humiliating insult.
It's embarrassing for me as a progressive to read the dismissive ad hominem attacks spewed in one liners like above.
You may not like his politics, I don't agree with him most of the time. But, one thing is certain. Pat Buchanan is a populist and has always been a populist. To dismiss his arguments as racism or xenophobia only shows ignorance on your behalf.
Notice how it is the RACIST NAZIS COMMITTEE and members of the past CONGRESSIONAL KKK, that are complaining about anonimity,this scum and trash gets busted working years in secret now they want to know who the name throwers are, as for the story again the (RNC) strikes again these bigoted racists just never give up. They are always trying to find away to keep people apart.
QUESTION for the MORON buchanan: how come when the BILL was brought foward to FINE COPORATE AMERICA and wipe out the CHEAP labor force you SCUM and TRASH went under ground, then you resurface screaming it will wreck the economy, yuo you piece of HUMAN FECAL MATTER as long as there is a DOLLAR in it you and that SCUM you call a PARTY are for it but ask you for a solution and you babble like the BRAINLESS RWITS you are.
living_abomination @ 35:
This is an excellent example of the problem with political discourse in this country. I bet you haven't read anything that Buchanan has written. Not one of his books. But, you feel a superiority in labeling him "Klan" hoping that others will will be as lazy as you are and accept what you've written as fact. Advice: stop typing and go pick up a book. Spend some time with it, then come back.
I am a born lefty and the only time I have ever agreed with anything Buchannan had to say was when he voiced opposition to the Iraq War, however, once again Pat is right on this one. Having spent more than 3/4 of my life in Southern California, I have seen first hand how the changes in immigration have taken place. There have always been people crossing the boarder illegally, but in the last 15 years, there has been an avalanche of illegals. It used to be only people wanting to work hard, carve out a better life and send money home. But there is a younger criminal element that now crosses and causes a great deal of social problems for Americans. Even those wishing to work hard and do well now have family members that flood the school system, the hospitals, are a danger on the highways, and cannot speak the language which also endangers others. We have to close the flood gates and control legal immigration. Most of all, we have to clamp down on anyone that employs illegals. Until we do that, illegals will continue to come. The fact is, you would too, if things were reversed.
Anger over illegal MIGRATION = zero chance for Bill Richardson to ever win JACKSQUAT in a general election, which is why the media will use Edwards' EXPECTED LOW 2ND QTR fundraising numbers to pump up Richardson.
Corporate America's wet dream is Clinton or Obama or Richardson as the Democratic nominee.
John Edwards didn't even "TRY" to raise much money this season. Why doesn't someone ask him how many HIGH PROFILE fundraisers he had? You can count it on one hand probably. He had those "Small change for big change" things, but they were never meant to raise a whole lot of money.
Can anyone accept the fact that John Edwards didn't put in a large effort to raise a lot of money this quarter? Is that hard to believe? His goal is $40 million by Iowa. Even if he only gets to $7 million this quarter, he will still be over halfway to that.
If he gets some union endorsements, and some high profile endorsements like Al Gore, Mario Cuomo, and Jimmy Carter (he already has Carter's son in Georgia), then he'll gain more support financially.
The media are doing all they can to tear down John Edwards. After those Gallup poll numbers came out thursday showing him beating the Republicans worse than Clinton and Obama, they unleashed the "Poverty Center scam" bs on Friday. They can't wait to tear him down over fundraising, as if it really means anything.
DEAN RAISED THE MOST MONEY IN 2004.
How much good did it do him in the end?
Let me see if any one in the media states that FACT. I doubt it. They'll be too busy going all orgasmic over Edwards not raising a lot of money...EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO.
I also am a Texan, an avid Bush/Cheney hater, and a liberal. However, I see what the illegals are doing. They cannot speak english but know how to get food stamps, and other state programs while the pay in Texas decreases. I am fed up with paying for a bunch of people that broke the law, decrease the standard of living, and add to general chaos. Of course, we cannot deport them. The problem has always been the employers that hire illegal immigrants because of simple greed. And as long as the hiring magnet is here there will never be too high a fence. Also, I have a problem with the legislation: the illegals are supposed to pay fines--where in gods name are they going to get this money?, the illegals are supposed to go back to their home country and start correctly, legally to get back to the USA--if they did not follow the law getting here how are they going to follow this new legislation? It is all nonsense. Slam the corporations, the employers, the parents that want cheap babysitters, the people that want cheap landscaping, house cleaning, etc. with outrageously high fines and jail time w/o benefit of claiming ooops! I thought they were legal--and it will stop.
Funny how this one issue is making Republicans and Democrats agree for once. Wow...
I strongly urge you to call your Congress critters no matter what party you belong to.
Oh, and BTW, Gutierrez is evidence that there are now so many Mexicans in Chicago that you have to be Mexican to get elected to the legislature up there, just like Miami's Cubans. So should we be worried about a 20 million + influx of one racial group? He belies his own argument.
Oh, and Sanders said flat out, the reason the Dems are pushing the immigration bill is that the corporations have lobbyists flooding the halls of Congress and these pols have been taken in by the mega bucks the corps are pushing at them. He says Congress is selling out everything in the country for huge perks from the corps and the U. S. Chamber of Congress. Bernie Sanders. The most liberal liberal in Congress.
Ii won't be illegal immigrants that will turn this nation into a third world country. It will be corporate greed and the Bush/Cheney cabal that supports sending all our good paying jobs overseas and encourages corporations to buy our bridges and roads.
It was the Republican controlled Congress and White House that did not enforce the current immigration laws and allowed illegal immigrants to get jobs in this country. If there were no jobs available, people wouldn't be sneaking into this country. This is all about greed... and not wanting to pay a fair wage. It's 1900 all over again.
As usual apologists for the illegal alien lobby can't distinguish between legal immigration and law breakers. What part of the word 'illegal' aren't you grasping? The illegal alien amnesty will only serve to further ravage America's already suffering poor and working classes. But its far easier to label those who disagree with you 'xenophobes'.
Try this on for size. The Border Patrol admits, admits mind you, to capturing 80,000 NON-Mexicans in the year 2006.
What if only 1% of those non-Mexicans were Islamic terrorists?
And we shouldn't secure our borders BEFORE we take any action on 'comprehensive immigration reform?
Nonsense.
Remember when our neighborhoods were ruined by those drunken Irish hooligan immigrants? Or those Italian immigrants who wanted to get paid as the "day goes"? and how they refused to similate into our society, chosing instead to live in their own Little Italy's". And the Chinese refused to integrate into our society also, chosing instead to create "China Towns".
We barely survived these alien invasions, how can we survive the Mexican invasion?
O.K., sarcasm aside, the Irish came to this country as cheap labor. They built many cities including New Orleans. The Italians came here as cheap skilled labor and Italian stone masons have left beautiful stone buildings all over the country. The Chinese immigrants came here as cheap labor and they made many of our western railroads.
The Mexicans are filling the same role as past immigrants. This country has always relied on immigrants for cheap labor.
I only wish you would come visit us in TX, you might think differently. I was born on the border, McAllen, TX, I can not go to McAllen now and speak English. There is a whole lot more to this story than you realize.
And I am no fan of Pat............
Coffins draped with flags @ 135:
It's actually a question of supply AND demand. If you do not stop both, you won't stop either. I can take you to areas of Dallas, Texas the same as any one of you can in any one of your respective cities and show you areas where hundreds of illegals gather each morning, loiter on corners and in lots waiting to be picked up not by MAJOR CORPORATIONS but by landscaping contractors, builders, and average Joe Citizen like you or me to work at day labor. So, by stemming the demand for cheap labor through fines and increased enforcement, the only result will be thousands more illegals loitering in lots. Do you think that by cracking down on big corporations alone that suddenly 15 million illegal aliens are going to conduct a mass exodus back to the squalor they came here from? It's not going to happen.
Since their inception and rise to power in the early 1900's big business has been trying to kill labor unions and devalue the time a person spends at a trade or job in exchange for money. It's as simple as that.
To uncle joe mccarthy
Problem is -- how do you deport in excess of 13 million people? The logistics, alone, involved in such an operation are mind-boggling. Like you, the idea of saying, "Oh well, since you're here -- even though you violated all the laws that we expect others to abide by -- you get safe passage," curls my toes and causes me to froth a bit at the mouth. Especially in light of the people I know who are desperately jumping through all the legal hoops required for US citizenship and still getting thumped on. But I can think of no solution other than the one I offered up earlier. I wish there were more. I really, really wish somebody would come up with a better idea than the one I proposed.
Incidentally, uncle joe, my uncle was clerk of court all the time the original Joe McCarthy was a judge in Shawano, Wisconsin. It was Uncle Bill's "tales around the campfire" that convinced me at a tender age that just because someone is adult size and shape and a politician, this doesn't mean you'd ever want to invite him to a party at your house. (As near as I can recall, the drunk got buck-naked and waved his Johnson around for all to see on the second floor balcony.) But that is beside the point. I have lots more stories. None of which favorably inclines me toward the "political elite" of any party. Heavy sigh of disgust.
The people who need punishment get off Scott-free under Bush's immigration amnesty bill.
CEOs and business owners who conspire to break the country's laws in order to benefit from cheap illegal labor need to go to jail.
Then, if there are no ready employers, because of the fear of punishment, the illegals will stop coming to America.
We shoulda kept out the Irish.
OxyCon @ 137:
Of course nobody remembers the immigration of the early 1900's. Likewise, you don't remember it. Your argument is specious at best.
When other immigration waves hit the United States, there was a true demand for the labor that immigrants brought to bear on the ecomony. We didn't have enough skilled labor to build the cities you refer to, nor was the United States a populated continent as it is now. Likewisem the immigrants who came here did so by legal means. They expressed a desire to become AMERICANS legally, forsaking loyalties to their homelands for the prospect of living their lives here.
This is in now way the situation today. I dare you to find one illegal in this country who is not taking a majority percentage of the money they are paid and sending it back HOME south of the border. No, it's not a question of assimilation. It's opportunism on both sides that actually is damaging the lives of our working poor.
ST Says:
Buchanan may be a xenophobe, but the country has territorial boundaries for a reason, and they should be respected.
It’s illegal “MIGRATION,” not immigration. Anyone who doesn’t come in throught the immigration process can technically “NOT” be referred to as an immigrant.
I don’t feel sorry for anyone who would rather come up here and march in the streets demanding rights, but wouldn’t do the same in the country they fled.
___
Ditto. However, Mexicans believe that white man stole their land and they are rightful citizens of California and Texas.
Ditto. However, Mexicans believe that white man stole their land and they are rightful citizens of California and Texas.
But, what they "believe" doesn't change the fact that we have national "boundaries." I'm not fixated on borders. I prefer to use the word "BOUNDARIES." We have national boundaries, and laws. If you don't come in through the immigration process, regardless of how long it takes, you are not an immigrant, regardless of what ignorant rhetoric the media uses and the public adopts.
Immigration system = immigrant
Crossing border and ignoring the system = migrant
And yes, I understand that corporations are actively recruiting mexican citizens for jobs.
Yes, I know that these people are being exploited.
Yes, I know that the Mexican government has failed its people.
Still doesn't change the fact that we have national boundaries and laws that are being broken by everyone, including Mexicans, regardless of what they "believe."
Anonymous @ 7:
Your a twit!
By allowing the continuation of a sneak in work force, the rich pricks can still avoid paying for work in this country. That is the lowering of the standard of living. The conservatives have a long standing reputation of believing that employees do not deserve an income. If they drive by and see someone sleeping under an underpass or dying of a disease that is curable,they say that it is a free country and you are allowed to die. This is the same group that says they are highly religious. People that claim to be republicans or conservatives are sick in the head. You self centered greedy bastards can please shut the hell up.
I agree with buchannan on this issue on several points. Some people just look at mexico and central and south america and see ireland in the 19th century. Its not. Its just not. To me its as myopic as right-wingers who look at Iraq and see Normandy on June 6, 1944. Its not, its just not. The misapplication of historical example doesnt seem to be tied to one side of the political aisle. Its just pseudo intellectual masturbation. Wow, youve heard of the potato famine, so now every migration in history must somehow be a repeat of the potato famine in every particular? Its just nonsense.
I see David Duke-lite is at it again.
137 OxyCon Says:
Again, another disingenuous post pointing to the past.
Lest you yourself forget, as you assume I have: those waves of immigrants were stopped at the border, identified and registered.
In the 19th and early 20th century that was how it was done, there was no internet or organized immigration directorate to make applications to from another country. Like all nations around the world at the time you came to the border, were held for ID and either admitted after filling out the forms or were turned away.
We now have the internet and foreign offices around the globe, including Mexico, where anyone is free to walk in, pay the fee and fill out the forms JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
There is no comparison, and anyone who tries to make one is either uneducated or knowingly lying.
This is not about immigration, it is about ILLEGAL MIGRATION.
If I did it in Europe I would be deported as soon as I was discovered. Period.
And when a European does it here it is the same thing. Period.
But when a Mexican does it it's OK? I think not.
Don't be dense, it's called ILLEGAL migration for a reason.
Yes, if we dont want to demolish the border, we are racists. Excellent argument if Peppermint Patty is your classmate.
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