Michael Moore with Jay Leno and a dash of the Washington Post
Michael Moore joined Jay Leno to discuss " Sicko!"
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It's sad to see the segment about the girl who had to pay for her ambulance ride when she was unconscious and couldn't get it pre-approved....Nope...there's no problem with HMO's as far as I can see...It's not surprising to see the Washington Post review it and knock him around...
Ladies and gentlemen, I think we can agree on two things: The American health-care system is busted and Michael Moore is not the guy to fix it. His "Sicko," an investigation and indictment of a system choking on paperwork, greed, bad policy and countervailing goals, turns out to be a fuzzy, toothless collection of anecdotes, a few stunts and a bromide-rich conclusion...
Moore is trying to raise the conscious awareness of the health care problem in America---not offer up the solution Mr. Hunter. (h/t Clay) With all the talk recently about journalist donating to the left, Mr. Hunter once gave 250.00 bucks to the NRCC... Although he says he was drunk at the time...
While I haven't seen the movie yet, I highly doubt that it ends with a formal proposal or suggested legislature of how to solve the problem. Perhaps you get handed a binder as you enter the theatre.
Perhaps Mr. Hunter was unaware that most documentaries are documenting an issue or event, not providing a solution. One would think that this would be known to a "reviewer."
Say what you want about Moore's style but he calls attention to things other try hard to ignore.
I had back surgery on monday morning.
On tues morning at 10am the insurance told the hospital that I would no longer be covered for hospitilization. I had not seen my doctor, had foley, IV and pain pump(morphine drip) in place and had not even been out of bed.
Ahhhh, glad to see the librul media (Tm) in action!
Just minutes ago, I was reading reviews of Sicko on Yahoo Movies and noticed a surge of name-calling/smear reviews giving the film an "F" rating. It's obviously an organized campaign, but there's no indication of who's coordinating it.
See .
Time to fight back.
The guy is trying to earn some wingnut cred by claiming Moore offered solutions. He'll likely be covering Rosie O'Donnel any day now as these guys tend to have a "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality.
Diane @ 3:
So what happened? Did you have to pay out of pocket or did they boot you out all together? Which insurance carrier? Type of plan?
One more reason to renounce citizenship.
Your health care would be free.
Dave @ 5:
I was reading that as well. Glad to see the anti-American reich-wingers choose big business over the best interest of Americans. How typical.
Notice that JAY LENO's audience is cheering and screaming (at least 3 minutes in...watching now). This isn't a stacked deck like say Bill Maher's, but probably a late middle aged upper middle class, and probably not overpoweringly leftist
Dave @ 5:
No need to fight back. The more they try to slam it, the more appealing it is to the public. The neo-cons haven't figured this out yet. Their name-calling and smear campaigns that usually never dispute or discuss the issue, only make it seem more interesting.
Think about it, if you saw a child in the candy aisle kicking, screaming and throwing a hissy fit, you kind of want to know what caused all of the commotion. The same applies with Moore's films. I think it was what made his last film the highest grossing documentary of all time.
How dare Mr. Moore say something good about Cuba, I mean they may look us bad. And that can't be! We are the best, number 1, America!!!!!
I still remember the Olympics a few years ago, when the Cuban team was kicking the living daylights out of the American baseball team, and NBC switched to some "human interest story" about a gymnastics coach rowing on a lake or some bullshit.
For being such a great super duper democratic country, we surely can't stomach other peoples with different opinions/systems/culture/approaches.
Maybe he was hungover and kept using the SnuzNLuz Alarm clock. It's a clock that automatically donates a small amount of money to the charity you hate everytime you hit the snooze button. I like how in the picture it shows "$11 pending to GOP". :lol: :lol:
SnuzNLuz clock: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/snuznluz.shtml?cpg=50T
Obviously this WaPo reviewer is a Reich Wingnut and his corporate fascist viewpoint keeps him from watching this movie without bias. His review is worthless.
Perhaps Michael Moore cannot fix all that's wrong with the US health care system.
But I would certainly vote for him to cauterize all of Mr. Hunter's hemorrhoids.
ashton @ 1:
Perhaps Mr. Hunter was unaware that most documentaries are documenting an issue or event, not providing a solution. One would think that this would be known to a "reviewer."
Seriously. When was the last time you saw a nature documentary where the camera crew prevented the injured baby kangaroo from being eaten by a dingo? They don't interfere with what goes on to "solve the problem"... they just document it.
Here's the reality....and instructions if you're unsure what to do now that the movie Sicko is out and its getting 'bad reviews' (btw - when it was released in Cannes...Fox News gave it a good review)
If you have a brain and it works...go see the movie and make you're own judgements
If you listen to movie critics before going to see a movie...then you're probably the same type of person that always answers "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" to every poll and you flip a coin when you vote...see it or don't see it
If you're republican...since you're not going to see it anyway...Michael Savage needs his diaper changed and Coulter needs a prostate exam...drive him there
The Reich Wingnuts are rupturing a nad over this movie, so it must be good!!
Stupid Repukes support crooked corporations, not people.
Most Americans think HMO is a premium cable channel.
As a (healthy) self-employed person… paying Blue Cross $600.00 per month to cover my (healthy) family ONCE we hit the $2000.00 PER individual out-of pocket and then ONLY if everything is pre-approved AND there are no pre-conditions AND we go ONLY to their providers, THEN, as stated, they will pay ONLY for cost of services that are not higher than their ‘blue book’ of fees (you pick up the difference)… I can’t wait for healthcare reform.
I guess we have a free press..cause tit-heads like that one can write what ever the hell they want...connected or not to logic.
please, go to rotten tomatoes, where the only negative reviews come from murdoch controlled papers
sure, moore is a propogandist, but at least hes a propogandist on the side of the people
Documentarians must fix the problems our "leaders" can't!
Sure, Michael Moore can be an incendiary figure, and his style is a bit heavy-handed, but he hit the nail on the head with this film. I never cared for Michael Moore before, but if he's willing to do the job that the "real" journalists won't, then I can overlook his overly in-your-face attitude... GOOD JOB MR. MOORE!
But...but...but...Moore is fat!
i need to add this....although towards the end of the movie, moore advocates for universal health care....its not because of the uninsured....its because of the insured and under insured who get screwed by the system on a daily basis
a change needs to happen....but i dont think i will see it in my lifetime
there is too much money and greed built in firmly into the system
Dear Mr. Hunter:
There is an old saying.......When you have failed at everything else, become a consultant........a critic.....a pundit.......take your pick, you qualify.
I read a couple of the movie reviews at yahoo about Sicko. The ones that hated it are attacking the film with their usual lies about the canadian health care system. Saying you have to wait 9 months for heart surgery. Absolute bull shit. If it's an emergency, you get in right away. I was listening to Thom Hartmann and he was interviewing a doctor that's worked in both the US and Canada. The doctor said the canadian system is far superior. He's never had to justify putting a patient in the hospital there. What a crazy system, letting the doctors determine care, not some penny-pinching HMO bureaucrat. God forbid we let that happen in America. When my grandma had bypass surgery, her insurance company wanted her out the next day. The doctor had to say she had an infection (which she didn't) to keep her in the hospital. Watch for more attacks on the film and more lies about the Canadian healthcare system.
Stephen Hunter seems to be moonlighting for the insurance/HMO industry. I wonder if WP knows about his side activities. But as he is a bad publicist, the HMO's will probably fire him before the Wimp Post does.
Don't forget -- the wonderful US of A ranks 37th in the world in terms of healthcare -- two whole steps above Cuba!
There's absolutely NO REASON that the "richest" country in the world doesn't have the pre-eminent healthcare system!
i saw Sicko last weekend (special preview in philly) and i thought it was simply awesome. it was informative, entertaining, enraging, funny, sad, hopeful, depressing, etc. every emotion--kind of like fahrenheit 911.
and this WashPost review is friggin dumB. as everyone already mentioned, and i repeat again, this is a documentary--not a policy dissertation. moore comes at the subject with a certain POV, namely that for a country that espouses the "family values and world leader" hubbub we sure have a funny way of expressing those values in a health system based on profit and reduction of services for the populace.
people need to start thinking long and hard about what we as a nation value, and what we are willing to do to ensure that all americans don't have to be at the mercy of a health care system that chews people up, spits them out and then sends them a bill.
Why is Michael Moore being attacked for advocating a government run, single payer health care system? Who knows, but it couldn't possibly have anything to do with double digit increases in insurance premiums and 50% annual profit increases for ever to the insurance industry.
I'm sure most people here have an insurance/hmo horror story to tell. Here's mine:
Last year my daughter had an emergency C-section that almost killed her. The hospital sent her home after 2 days - in spite of the fact that her stitches had broken. Of course, she developed an infection a week or two later and ended up back in the hospital and eventually needed long-term outpatient care which must have cost many times more that what it would have to keep her in the hospital a couple of extra days in the first place.
If I ever learn the name of the pencil pusher who caused her all this pain and suffering I'll give her/him an episiotomy they'll never forget.
The documentary is very anecdotal, I would have liked to have seen more statistics and data charts, cause I love stats and charts.
Michael Moore is a great spokesman on this issue. I wish that American politicians were equally committed to this vital cause. But I guess our politicians are too busy debating evolution and gay marriage to worry about something as trivial as health care.
Barrett D @ 35:
Most documentaries are anecdotal though. While a few stats and charts are helpful, most film makers probably understand that the average viewer will quickly become bored. Anecdotes usually hit home much more than statistics do.
Michael moores the kind of guy who gets a person thinking ,its to bad he doesnt do a documentary exposeing the falacy that is 911, talk about explosive !
Yellow Elephant Safari
I hope your daughter fully recovered, but before you take insert that surgical knife to that idiot’s groin area… [tear]… please fill out this form.
OT: Hmm Whitehouse scandals brewing, Cheney being exposed for the criminal he is, failed immigration bill, the bloodbath in Iraq gets worse, hmmm how to distract the people??? 2 car bombs found in London! See it works like a charm.
tyree @ 38:
Or how about an exposé of corporate christianity?
".. turns out to be a fuzzy, toothless collection of anecdotes, .."
Sounds like it has teeth and is already nibbling on a few lobbyist nerves even as we speak.
I got me a dose of corporate christianity last weekend. HURL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gort @ 39:
Mother and baby are fine, thank you.
And who said anything about a surgical knife? I'd use my bare hands.
I hope Michael Moore's movie covers the fact that people without insurance pay astronomical prices to subsidize the insurance companies who work with Big Pharma for reduced prices on the formularies (list of approved-for-payment drugs) dispensed by hospitals and pharmacies. Those reduced prices are passed along to those people who are covered by the insurance companies.
Someone on the BBC web site had a supersmug attitude because he said it's his hard work and can-do attitude that gained him excellent insurance and affordable prescription prices. He should think again. He's being subsidized by the poor and buttressed by the arm-twisting of Big Pharma and Big Insurance. That's not too much to be proud of.
Even our very right wing newspaper (Richmond Times Dispatch) gave it a decent review. Michael Moore is a true patriot, a guy who genuinely stands up for the average American and takes a hell-of-a-lot of grief for it. That takes courage. To the idiot in Wapo, he never claimed he had a solution. He's trying to raise awareness. What I've heard him say is that all national health care systems have their pros and cons, and that we should examine them all, then come up with a plan that's suitable to America. Anyway, not only do we need to fight for a national healthcare system, we need to support Michael Moore. The righties are already out in force trying to trash him. Push back hard folks. Let's not let these bullies get the upper hand.
I have been fortunate enough to avoid any hospital horror stories but I did have a good friend at Edwards AFB who passed out in the heat while on guard duty. He was scooped up in an ambulance and spent a couple of days recovering and getting rehydrated. No permanent damage was done but Tri Care billed him for the ambulance ride saying that he had not asked permission from his primary health care manager first. Now, Tri Care's own rules clearly state that an uncleared ambulance ride is authorized under three conditions: Loss of life, limb or eyesite. He was definitely in danger of losing his life, not to mention the fact that he was unconcious. He fought the beauracrats for a while but once his first sergeant and commander got involved things got straightened out. Still, it pisses me off that Tri Care can't even play by their own damned rules.
By the way if our government believes in free trade why can't Americans purchase the same high priced prescription drugs we have here at lower costs from other countries? So much for free trade. I guess it's only free when the big corporations can make huge profits.
Can anyoneexplain to me why it's okay for members of Congress to have what they call "socialized medicine", but it's anathema for the rest of us???
Fuck those fucking fucks. Yeah, it's Friday afternoon and I'm still at work...and I'm pissed!
How about those 4 congress people who helped hammer out the Pharma deal which favors Big Pharma, they all quit congress soon afterwards and got high paying jobs with the Pharma companies. Hmmm nothing fishy there.
Anecdotes are a great way to add punch to statistics. The entire movie is Anecdotes and he doesn't back them up with enough facts.
Do you really think there aren't going to be appalling stories from England/Canada that could be used to create another movie about how terrible socialized health care is? HMOs are nothing short of hellspawn and can say I wish cancer upon the families of every CEO of an HMO, but the movie is light on facts and strong on human interest. Give me facts punctuated by anecdotes and then you've got a winner for a movie in my eyes.
Straight Shooter @ 45:
Not necessarily - it depends on the policy. Usually a patients co-pay amount is derived from the full retail price and only the insurance company's portion of the payment is based on negotiated prices. In other words, insurance companies benefit much more than people with coverage. But I'll have to wait until I see the movie to understand exactly how Moore presented this issue.
Is it time to storm the castle yet? I have my torch and pitchfork ready and waiting for the call to arms.
Michael Moore's controversial film SiCKO opens nationwide this weekend. But before the inevitable discussions about the accuracy of the film's portrayal of the U.S. health care system, you can make up your own mind. The summary below includes comparisons of the American health care system relative to other countries and between the states, data on the uninsured, rising health care costs, the woes of Medicare and Medicaid and more.
For all the details, see:
"SiCKO Required Reading: U.S. Health Care by the Numbers."
American Psycho @ 53:
I've said it before but it bears repeating.
It's time to go all Transylvanian villager on their asses.
NBC Standards and Practices (censors): "Cuba Can't Win'
Not surprising that such overt media propaganda isn't just part of post 9/11 thinking.
It's way past time. Let's get medieval on their asses!
Furious @ 54:
Everybody know the wheels are falling off and anyone that claims our system is mostly working just fine is someone that is profiting from the current system.
Dave @ 5:
yea, i noticed the sicko user review on the yahoo mainpage. i didnt even bother to read it because i know what i would find. looks like people are as predictable as ever
None of you love your mothers as much as I love mine, I mean, I really love my mother.
Yep, if you are a CEO, one of the elite, a wealthy shareholder, part of the upper middle class, the system is working out very well for you. Not so well for others.
I was reading some reviews of Sicko the other day and I was just curious, are all the Republican reviewers 8 years old or it that really they way they think? I can't remember how many time I read "if Michael Moore likes Cuba so much he should move there" The brain trust of the Right Wing is amazing.
How to fix the social security problem without privatizing it. Raise the wage cap from $90,000.00 to $250,000.00. See how simple it is.
No RayC that is how they really think. Scary isn't it. And they are raising their children to think the same way.
American Psycho @ 63:
Absolutely!
The have's and the have more's in their minds deserve the best in life because it was God who chose them to be successful. The have not's deserve what we get.
Dr. Acula - I'm with you (but I can't type the expletives, as much as I want to!). And, ysbaddaden, the HMO comment is priceless. I will use it shamelessly, and try to remember to credit the source.
RayC @ 62:
I think that this is actually how they think. That is about as deep as they get.
To be taken seriously, he needs to keep his (ample) ass behind the camera, not in front of it. His Messiah complex gets in the way of storytelling. They're talking a lot about Moore/Sicko today at Unbound Edition:
[Deleted. Blogwhoring]
Of course the politicians will never change the SS wage cap from $90,000.00. It makes too much sense. They make the problem seem so much more difficult then it is and to them us little people just don't understand or comprehend the problem like they do.
Now on to more fear and car bombs found in London...
American Psycho @ 63:
Isn't $250,000.00 yesterday's $90,000.00? It sure seems to be in Chicago where dinner and drinks for two can easily reach over $150.00, yesterday's $50.00.
jaykaydee @ 69:
Nice, fat jokes and the plug for a blog with a whopping four comments. Yeah, they are talking a lot.
jaykaydee @ 69:
this documentarys not national geografics, someone has to do the dirty job of going after the injustices that hmos are moore fits the bill!!!!get it bill !!!!!!!
Moore is a trailblazer in issues not receiving the voice they need, as usual. Conservatives should asked themselves if they're really the party of ideas then where are there ideas besides name calling and failed wars?
heres an idea on the army surviveing ieds have all the troops and vihicals far enough away from them , say back in the usa!
10 year old attacks a homeless man, smash's his face with a cinder block. Must be a future republican.
Translation of the sentiment here:
"If you don't have the exact, perfect answer to fix the problem instantly, do not point out that a problem exists."
Yay team amerikkka!
This is the same Washington Post that championed the Iraq War and has defended the disastrous Bush Administration's incompetence and corruption. Frankly, the fact that they trashed this movie tells me it has something of real value as far as I am concerned.
We have egos in this country. Ego trumps heart.
The MSM is OWNED by the Corporate Ellite aka Big Pharma. Talk about how f'ed up our healthcare system is with someone who has a "pre-existing condition" and see what they think of not being able to get private health insurance.
Wow, Jay Leno wasn't an ass. What the hell???
I have just the guy to fix health care, Dick Cheney! Is there a humanoid more concerned with the citizenry of Doritoland than this draft-dodging drunk?
Conservativeslayer @ 29:
Excerpt from Physicians for a National Healthcare plan:
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#canada_ration
Right now 440,000 Americans are forced into bankruptcy each year because of a healthcare crisis in the family. The dirty little secret is that 75% of them had healthcare insurance but the coverage was not enough to cover the costs.
Healthcare costs are projected to double in the next ten years, how many more families are going to find themselves losing everything they've worked for going up in smoke to feed the coffers of big insurance companies.
Diane @ 3:
GEEEEEZZZUUUZZZZZ.....hope your feeling ok........good luck.....and here wishing you a speedy recovery
If we were able to set up a national healthcare system, I would want the Canadians or French to be contracted to run it. I wouldn't trust these money grabing clowns in Washington to run it.
Likewise, David Denby writing in the New Yorker, is upset that Mr. Moore didn't spend time discussing intricacies of the Canadian health care system, like how health care differs between a Toronto hospital and a smaller rural Canadian system. Oh, if only Moore had spent twenty minutes discussing a cost-benefit analysis of rural versus urban health care in Canada, instead of on, like, the stories of American mothers whose children died because of insane insurance costs and regulations, think of how much more jazzed up the American audience would be to take action!
I wish I was a well-paid movie reviewer with a tidy salary and a well-insured position on a national magazine like Denby, so I could take Michael Moore to task for not presenting a forty-five minute long pie graph analysis about how to improve the stamina of nurse practitioners by three seconds a day through slightly modified footwear, as suggested by a John Hopkins seminar which we see in its entirity. The absence of such a scene totally ruins the effect of Moore's film, if you ask me.
I think it is very telling that the Wash Post, which lets you comment on almost every article, won't let you comment on the review of Sicko. They knew it was a hatchet job. Knew people would be upset. Decided to
Where is Mr. Media Notes Howard Kurtz to cry about all the campaign contributions from this reviewer. The Wash Post continually disappoints.
Even as I am sympathetic to Moore's assessment of the American healthcare system, I find it disturbing that my fellow C&L readers can't seem to stomach a film review that is the slightest bit critical of Moore. His latest film is likely to bring much needed attention to an incredibly important issue, and for that I am grateful, but that hardly exempts Moore from thoughtful critiques of his film.
As with his previous films, I am in agreement with Moore in the broad if somewhat frustrated by the manner in which he pursues his argument. I find the whole Guantanamo bit to be particularly frustrating. The problem at Gitmo is not that the people being held there have good healthcare. For Christ's sake, could Moore get that any more wrong?! If in fact they do receive decent healthcare that would be about the only thing we've done right down there. It infuriates me that Moore completely sidesteps the real problems at Gitmo because he's amused by the irony that, "Can you believe it, we give terrorists free healthcare and yet we leave 9/11 heroes out to dry?" Our treatment of the people at Guantanamo is unconscionable, just as it is true that the American healthcare system is broken, but I don't think either issue is well served by Moore's antics.
So what's the deal, do I earn the label of 'right wing nut job' for failing to properly kneel at the alter of Michael Moore?
I just saw "Sicko" and it blew me away. Moore merely gives anecdotes through real people's stories and follows up with a remedy for each person still alive by the end of the movie. Needless to say, the government and health industries will try to stiffel this movie. We can start to change to a universal healthcare system for the benefit of a majority of covered folks that still get screwed by the big boys in denying procedures for inhumane reasons. Of course, folks unable to pay would be covered as well. That could be you and me with one missed paycheck, my friends. Moore explains how the government keeps us in debt so we are glad for any employment that offers healthcare, even if we pay throught the nose when we use the coverage. Even England, in 1948 could afford universal healthcare to this day. Michael Moore is a great patriot. What elected official will be the next patriot that moves us into universal healthcare? See the movie and be transformed.
Kill the messenger is the motto of the WaPo, I guess.
Retirement and medical assistance, instead of being obligatory function of a democratic state, cartel of corporation & our own elected government officials has turned into money making machine. Capitalism is not Democracy. Capitalism is the name of the monitory freedom given to the private sector in Democracy. But well being of the citizens should be excluded from capitalism.
festiveminor @ 89:
No one has claimed that his work is beyond critique, so I have no idea where you came to that conclusion. The majority of the comments are regarding how it was critiqued. The reviewer somehow felt that Moore was providing a documentary on how to fix the situation. Moore has never claimed to be about that, nor has any documentary maker for that matter.
I think the whole point flew right over your head. The pre-planned martyr syndrome at the end was not real effective either.
We know the problem: Greed on the part of the HMO/Insurance companies, big Pharma, and doctors to a lesser extent, with all three making contributions to the Congress who, in return, will never allow the solution of single payer with everyone covered.
At some point in the future, America will inform Congress single payer with everyone covered, or you're out of a job at the next election. Until then, we will continued to be screwed. Enjoy.
I WONDER IF HUNTER WAS DRUNK WHEN HE "SAW" THE MOVIE?
No, you have a right to have a critical eye of Michael Moore without being labeled right wing. I think what you're hearing is critics' eagerness to criticize the letter of any and all imperfections of his art in an effort to discredit the spirit of his work, which as far as I can tell until I see it tonight seem to be on point, doing a tremendous service to the general public.
festiveminor @ 89:
Your choice of vocabulary is fascinating. Not really 'right wing nut job,' I think 'concern troll' is more apt in your case.
festiveminor @ 89:
You earn the label "festiveminor"
The "thoughtful criticism" is "Well, Moore doesn't provide an answer." For a guy who probably thought the medical care system in the US was just hunky-dory before the movie, the critic sure had silly expectations.
He wanted more facts and figures? Charts? Oh, man. Disingenuous, methinks, not "thoughtful."
Moore seems to have exposed the system a la The Emperor has no clothes and has started a public debate. I think that's what he intended. That's a success, don't you think?
If you haven't seen it lately, pull Fahrenheit 9/11. It is as entertaining and relevant now as it was when it was released. The only difference is then the casualties were in the hundreds. Sadly now it is in the thousands.
I'd sure rather see my taxes go to providing health care than to fighting unnecessary wars abroad that inflame hostility towards our country.
Angela @ 100:
You're not alone.
This crap " he can't fix it" is just a phony strawman argument, because Moore is A. under no obligation to "fix it", B. No one person CAN fix it. C. His documentary was to point out the flaws, in the U.S. health Care system, which Nobody else in Hollywood is doing. As far as "heavy handed", you have got to be kidding, here we have a health care system that puts profits before PEOPLE'S LIVES, otherwise allowing them to DIE or SUFFER, and MOORE is the "heavy Handed" one, geesh, get real.
Sicko
got a very positive review in the San Francisco Chronicle today. Mick LaSalle used to be kind of a dumb reviewer but has really become more insightful over time. Good to know there is a "liberal media"(TM) somewhere that doesn't start every piece w/ repetition of the standard right-wing talking points, & hatred of any progressive ideas or people. And yes, tho' I don't agree w/ Moore 100% on any issue I'm aware of, I think "Bowling for Columbine" & "Farenheit 911" still hold up remarkably well on repeated viewings, concern trolls be damned.Michael sure sounds like he's pandering when he calls the people held in Guantanamo "terrorists."
kdjid @ 96:
It is a classic tactic, to dwell on the delivery while completely ignoring the message, and I think in Moore's case there's no doubt that he inspires that sort of response. I definitely agree with you there. My frustration with Michael Moore, and I have felt this in the past, so forgive me, is that he has a tendency to take unnecessary shortcuts and thereby provides his critics with easy targets. I know it's supposed to be entertainment--there's Frontline and there's Moore, and the world needs both--I just wish he could be entertaining without making it so easy for the Fox crowd to dismiss him. In contrast, I think Jon Stewart and the Daily Show are so much harder for the Right to contend with precisely because the show is funny AND smart. That's a pretty mighty combo, so much harder to rebut, and I guess that's why I am so often left cold by Moore. Then again, as Jonathan Cohn said in his review for the New Republic:
"If anything, the proponents of universal health care have probably been too honest, getting so caught up in nuance and policy accuracy that they undermine the very real moral power of their own argument. As another great health care debate begins, it's worth remembering that the fundamental challenge isn't technical. We have plenty of good ideas for achieving universal coverage. The challenge is political. Our side needs some passion and, yes, perhaps a little simplicity, too. That's what Moore has supplied. No wonder the health care industry is spooked."Jovian @ 104:
Exactly. The apologists for Guantanamo pull that trick all the time, which is why I find it bizarre that Moore would venture down that path. Would he rather the detainees not have decent medical care? It just doesn't make sense. It's like he came up with the gag of arriving at Guantanamo by boat and decided to ignore the fact that the set-up for the joke would require him to mimick a war-on-terror talking point.
ashton @ 93:
Jovian @ 104:
I believe its a rhetorical device. You might find Amato's use of "dirty hippie" to be similar.
The Tomatometer is at 90%. It sounds like it's actually a good movie. Not much use worrying about the other 10%.
The Washington Post went with the only attack they had. Too bad it is inconsequential. No one has to _prove_ that the American health care system is insanely broken or that other systems obviously work better. Comparative statistics are readily available. Moore did what needs to be done. He's distributing a cathartic rallying cry for change.
I don't like Leno. He obviously looks down on Moore. He tried to get with the old "They only gave you special treament because you're on camera" arguement, but Moore was ready for it. Then he flubs the joke about being on the phone with an NBC exec, and exec says "war is not good, war is not good". Huh? and of course, "Thanks for being a pain in the ass". not too cool. It's a compliment on the surface, but ultimately a put-down. Like, "damn this guys a pain in the ass, but I guess he's got a point.." Not, "This guy has been brave enough to speak truth to power, and he has been right about so many things before, I respect his opinion."
I do think Moore has a decidely caustic reaction on ALOT of normal people, and I even understand it, but he deserves a ton of respect after F911, because it really helped people see the the war in a different light. The shadiness of it all. Now the drums begin on the opposite side of the spectrum, and the countries airwaves are filled with unsavory pieces about him yet again, and the people that watch normal news shows get subjected to the rights efforts to discredit him.
Festiveminor lauds Jon Stewart's show as being funny and smart [though I find Stewart's humor bordering upon the sophomoric] implying that Moore's film is not. My wife and I just came back from seeing the film and I must echo the comments of Jo-Anne at #90. I am not one given to hyperbole but the film was most impressive because of its power and poignancy. The first half of the film mostly details with the heart wrenching moments of American citizens being cast aside by the health care industry, which seem more concerned about turning a profit than providing the best care possible for its citizens. The second half focused on health care in other countries such as Canada, Britain, France, and Cuba. They all do an outstanding job with France perhaps coming in for the best accolades among the four. French citizens work an average of 35 hours a week, have a minimum of five weeks of vacation a year and, in a scene that could almost have been taken from a Monthy Python sketch, shows a French government employee going to the house of a French citizen, a woman who had recently had a baby, in order to do her laundry. There was also a shocking scene which showed something that has not happened in this country for many years, where Moore tags along when a French doctor makes [gasp!] house calls. I suspect that many of those who are complaining about Moore's film are those, as in Farenheit 9/11, who have not or will not see his film. This film is truly a film that deserves to be seen by all Americans, rich and poor, liberal and conservative, Democrat, Republican, independent.
Some interesting comments. A lot of fatalism coming from folks. Can't fix it? I guess we will have to get off our lazy buts and vote then. Canadians seem to have figured it out. Are they morally better people then Americans? How can we let drug pushers rule the country? We all sit around and chew the fat and when it is one of your family or you yourself, you howl. A little bit late. See what being lazy gets you. If you wait for it then you get what they want you to have not what you want or what is fare.
Trusting people has become a liability in this country. Used to be that liars and people you couldn't count on were not cool. Today there is so much lying that we invent different names for the appropriate kind of lie. Politicians use the name spin.
Expectations people!
i really got to say the republican freinds i have are in my oppinion brain dead nascar freaks , they set on their dead asses on sunday mesmerized by flicking cars going round and round for flipping hours in between guzzeling beer , these are the same dickheads i begged to watch ferighnheight 911 and they sneered and said moore was a liberal fat bastard! fugem
Okay, what the fuck is up with Leno's hair in this clip?
All that gray and that hideous patch of black in the middle of his forehead? Is that the worst dye job ever or what?
Not to mention the fact that Leno sucks! And is not funny! And needs to retire ASAP!
interesting story on Media Unspun Consulting's blog about dealing with Michael Moore
www.mediaunspun.net
The solution to our health care "system" is obvious. It is like the elephant in the room know one talks about because the powers that be don't want it. It is called single payer national health care. Simple.
Love you, Michael !
Can't wait to see this particular film (seen all the other ones and read your books too), but your patriotic legacy is solid, my dear friend :D
tyree @ 114:
Yours too, tyree :D
These reviewers are too cowed by the right to praise the movie without making pointless digs at Moore. NPR did the same thing. Reviewers everywhere call Sicko "deeply flawed," then go on to praise it as a great movie. The flaws they name, if any, sound like fake cover-your-ass posing.
Nothing else from the MSM is reliable, why put faith in movie reviews? The US healthcare system and this movie speak for themselves.
Besides, Stephen Hunter, er, I mean, Michael Moore is fat! Oh well, the pox is on our house anyway . . .
festiveminor @ 106:
It's just satire... the people we call "terrorists" get free universal healthcare, while the people we call "heroes" get the shaft.
[Deleted. Conspiracy theory]
[...] case you haven’t seen it yet, Crooks and Liars has the video of Michael Moore’s appearance on Leno from earlier this week, with some great interview and a clip from the [...]
I saw "Sicko" this morning in Seattle. What a national treasure Michael Moore is! He really shines a light into the dark corners of America, showing us where we MUST improve.
My precious brother died in large part due to lack of coverage. He put off being seen for six months because he couldn't afford a doctor or tests. Once he was finally diagnosed, it was too late. His kidney cancer killed him within 90 days of diagnosis. He was only 47, and a sweet, intelligent, kind, funny man who never hurt a soul and who gave his all to his patients as both an RN and a selfless post-Katrina medical volunteer. He worked "per diem" after Katrina and had no insurance until it was too late.
We supposedly live in the richest, best country in the world, but our health care system is beyond broken. No American should die because they can't afford a doctor or medicine.
Americans will love having a system of universal healthcare, here in Europe no political party no matter how right wing even contemplates the sort of privatization you have in the USA.
It doesn't come cheap because i keep seeing some people say that health care is free.
No it's not free , it costs a lot of tax dollars but considering the fact that currently Americans pay more , get less, and run all the risk. It seems like you can suffer the problems and issues other countries have with there systems and improve on them on that basis.
Just make sure you get the right people running it.
ashton @ 1:
Here is the legislation you can support to solve the problem. It was sponsored by John Conyers two years ago. If you have an objection to going to Moore's site, no problem! Google "H.R. 676" and visit the Library of Congress web site for the bill.
Thanks for your concern!
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