Put Impeachment Back On The Table
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Jul 03, 2007 3:52pmI admit it...I was slow to join the impeachment bandwagon. I just foresaw a circus of epic proportions, with the established media connections to the Republican noise machine giving us the disadvantage in public sentiments, perhaps dooming the effort. But with overwhelming evidence of a complete disregard for the rule of law to the point of near sociopathy, it's hard not to come to any other conclusion than it's time to quite seriously put impeachment back on the table.
Lane Hudson at HuffPo has more:
There are so many things that this Administration has done to betray the confidence of the American people. Rather than provide a long list of them here, I'll give you some links to peruse:
*The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Americans
*The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing George W. Bush From Office
*Impeach the President: The Case Against Bush And Cheney
(the above are all books which make detailed legal arguments for impeachment)
*Citizen for Ethics and Responsibility's new report: 'Crossing the Line'
*Here is an article in the Washington Post on the historical background of Impeachment
*And finally, some fellow bloggers have plenty of comments about this: Mahablog, Down With Tyranny, Seeing The Forest, The Young Turks, and Crooks and Liars.Tell Speaker Pelosi to put Impeachment BACK ON THE TABLE. Her phone number is 202-225-0100.
Doing nothing is not an option. Complacency at this moment in history is a moral crime.
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Hell yes.
Enough of this shit.
I'll even buy the table.
Please. He's not going to be impeached any sooner than I'll be.
maybe they'll help kucinich in his impeachment against cheney.
I'm not to sure about this. Digby has a good post up regarding this. Unfortunately, I can't get the link as I'm behind a firewall at work.
Do yourselves a favor though, look it up.
"with the established media connections to the Republican noise machine giving us the disadvantage in public sentiments,"
WTF?
What ever happened to being guilty, or doing the right thing?
And what is this 'us' you speak of?
Who cares if the 'us' are a group of aliens with peni for noses, breaking the law is brealing the law,... why did that stop in 2000?
Put impeachment back on the table, and put the HANDCUFFS on cheney & his side kick bush jr.
Welcome Aboard, Nicole!
Impeach, indict, imprison
And before the "We can't do it, We don't have the votes in Congress" crowd chimes in-YEAH WE KNOW. BUT WE CAN STILL KEEP CALLING FOR IT.
There is a story over on Raw that Robert Novak says he has no regrets about outing Plame and would do it again.
THESE PEOPLE ARE OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
We need to start impeachment even if it doesn't make it before the end of his term... we have to make a stand against this immoral, money-grubbing, evil administration. If we don't, you can bet your bottom dollar that they have more crimes up their sleeves and we will regret it!
Thank you, Nicole. I appreciate the list of links.
I too was slower to join the impeachment bandwagon than many but more than enough became more than enough for me a long time ago.
Visit this site http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer and vote to impeach.
Maybe if they hear from enough of us Nancy Pelosi will put impeachment on the table instead of blinking uncontrollably everytime the criminal and lawless Bush-Cheney gang says "fuck you" to our constitution and laws.
In principle Bush and Cheney should have been impeached years ago, but in practicality there are two points to consider:
1: Quite simply, our Majority Leader and Speaker are equivocating whimps who would never take such a decisive measure with regards to ANY policy issue, much less removal from office.
2: To initiate impeachment procedures while they have only a year and a half left in office would be seen by many centrists as a largely symbolic and pointless act, and one would make democrats appear to be more interested in retribution than progress, putting many of the presidential candidates in a precarious position and costing the party some of the huge leverage it has going into the '08 election as a whole. It'll be better to grin and bear the beating for another year and then go about repairing all the damage afterwards than it would be to risk polarizing everybody, firing up the right wingers, and electing someone who WON'T undo everything that Bush has done.
J - your argument makes perfect sense except... these guys don't play by the rules and who knows what else they are going to pull off. I am sure they have more machinations planned and probably already in progress.
I don't know if this has been implemented yet, but I would think a wiki detailing the various grievances and legal remedies would be very helpful in keeping track of all the Bush-Cheney presidency has perpetrated.
Just a thought.
I was slower than many to join the impeachment movement but more than enough became more than enough for me about six months ago when I voted to impeach on this site http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer Go here to cast your vote.
Maybe if congress hears from enough of us Nancy Pelosi will put impeachment on the table instead of just blinking uncontrollably everytime the Bush-Cheney gang says "fuck you" to our laws and constitution.
Welcome aboard, Nicole!
We have over 100,000 signatures on Ten Reasons to Impeach Bush and Cheney:
http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/88?ad=d0
Let's get to a million!
We cannot remain a country with rule of law if the only crimes prosecuted are those that are considered slam dunks. The Congress has to impeach, or it appears that it is willing to sweep high crimes and misdemeanors under the rug out of fear.
That's actually exactly what I wrote to her about a few days ago when the Libby travesty went down. We need action by this Congress that restores the functioning checks and balances.
It's nice to see some admission of guilt from one of the left's biggest gatekeeper's. Yes, you should have supported impeachment earlier, and you should never have banned certain subject-matter (don' worry I won't say it!) from your otherside impressive website. But it's not too late to change. The important thing is not getting the Deomcrats in, it's getting these gangsters out before it's too late. Tell the truth. Don't bann subject matter from your site. The truth will not set you free but it will sure lock these bastards up for a long time. 911 . . . hmmmm, time for a rethink on policy. . . ?
I haven't posted on this site in months but Bush's decision scares the crap out of me more than supposed terror threats.
Most government leaders who ignore the rule of law in their own country and show contempt to other leaders around the world are usually annoying little ticks from some third world backwater trying to scam some funds from the international community to funnel most of it to some account in the Caymans.
This is different. The man in charge of the largest arsenal of deadly weapons the world has ever seen has just sent a massive FUCK YOU to the 70+% of people who think he is doing a bad job and want him out of it. He has now put down a statement that the law is beneath him and anyone he conciders useful to him or protects his arse.
The rather scary question is this:
WHAT THE HELL ELSE IS THIS NUTTY B'STARD DOING TO DO NEXT?
lol! Stupid negatives.
I applaud you for achieving that realization, Nicolle.
Forget it. The Republicans are still very much in control of the congress. The weak-ass Democrats are too intimidated to do a damn thing. I am totally sick and disgusted at the people who are supposed to represent me . Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid both need step out of the way and let someone else take control who isn't so intimidated by the Repubs. Until then, I hold NO HOPE . Even if they failed, I would at least give them credit for trying. Nancy Pelosi said they were were going to "clean out the swamp" It seems to me she and Harry Reid ARE part of the swamp.
What can be done that won't be blocked by Republicans? They've blocked a impotent flogging of our AG, Fredo, they'll block anything and everything. This is where Congress needs to use their imagination, and use it very boldly, just as the White House has with signing statements, fourth branches of government, etc. Rahm Emmanuel did it well when he proposed cutting off funding for Cheney. Can Congress cut off power to the White House? Authorize security forces to surround both the White House and the Naval Observatory? Something similar to those moves would be the bold actions we would need for the final 18 months of Bush/Cheney.
I agree something must be done, but do something that's effective, not something that will die a quick death and possibly be an embarassment that may lead to many voters with cartoon watching attention spans crossing over to vote Republican in '08.
Never happen. The Dems are the other side of the same coin.
Maybe Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney should be put on trial as war
criminals by the world court.
Rather than wasting time, energy, and resources on calling for an Impeachment than will not happen, it seems to me that all effort should be put toward getting out of Iraq and electing the best possible President in 2008..Libby's commutation simply won't be enough for serious consideration by this Congress, much less conviction...a petition of 100,000 (not even one of several million) will not get anyone's attention..sad, sure, but true.
By: Nicole Belle on Wednesday, July 4th, 2007 at 12:52 PM - PDT
I admit it…I was slow to join the impeachment bandwagon. I just foresaw a circus of epic proportions, with the established media connections to the Republican noise machine giving us the disadvantage in public sentiments, perhaps dooming the effort. But with overwhelming evidence of a complete disregard for the rule of law to the point of near sociopathy, it’s hard not to come to any other conclusion than it’s time to quite seriously put impeachment back on the table.
You are pathetic!!! Suspending Habeas Corpus( detaining anyone indefinitely), Torture , Unlawful domestic wiretapping, Bush's right to unilaterally declare anyone an enemy combatant......etc etc were not enough. But Scooter Libby not going to jail, that is horrendous, that killed our democracy. Set you priorities straight my dear!!!
Hopefully Nicole, you'll get the Kucinich/Duncan Hunter debate up! Kucinich really impressed me! He may look like a cute little Kebler elf but he fought like a tazmanian devil.
I called yesterday Adam Smith, my congressman from Washington State. Here is his response. I don't agree with him and will let know tomorrow.
Dear Ron ,
Thank you for taking the time to contact me in support of legislation from Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) to initiate impeachment proceedings against Vice President Richard Cheney (H. Res. 333). I appreciated hearing from you and would like to take a moment to respond.
As you know, impeachment involves the legislative branch of our government (Congress) bringing accusations against officials such as cabinet members, judges, the Vice President, and the President. The power to impeach resides solely with the House of Representatives; the power to try an impeachment case resides solely with the Senate. The Chief Justice of the United States presides over the inquiry in case of impeachment of the President. Traditionally, the House, after drawing up and voting on articles of impeachment that specify the charges and their factual bases, assigns congressional "managers" (prosecutors) to present the case before the Senate. At the start of the trial, the members of the Senate are sworn in as "jurors" by the chief justice. A two-thirds vote of the senators present is required to convict. Punishment is limited to removal from office, though disqualification from future office is considered to fall within the discretion of the Senate, and the acts of the accused are still subject to criminal proceedings in the courts. Impeachable acts cited in the Constitution are "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
One of the most difficult questions raised by these provisions is: What are high crimes and misdemeanors? The conclusion reached by most scholars is that clear criminal law violations represent impeachable offenses, whereas misconduct that is not necessarily criminal but that undermines the integrity of the office (such as disregard of constitutional responsibilities) may rise to the level of an impeachable offense. Partly because of this, impeachment has taken place infrequently. By making impeachment difficult, the Constitution guards against the intrusion of the legislature into the business of the judiciary and executive branches. It also ensures that impeachment remains primarily a legal, or judicial, procedure rather than a political process.
I agree with you on the need to confront Vice President Cheney on the points where he has been dishonest with the American people. As for impeachment itself, that is a very serious step to take and one I cannot support at this time. I strongly believe that it should be reserved for the gravest of occasions, because respecting our process of democratic governance is such an important foundation in our country. I am concerned that pursuing impeachment would bitterly divide our country - which is part of the reason why the Constitutional standard for impeachment is so high.
Please know I strongly disapprove of this Administration's policies and will continue to vigorously fight Administration initiatives that I believe are not in the best interests of the nation. On issue after issue, the Administration's policies have failed, and it is our responsibility to push for a change of course. As a member of both of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committees, I am working with my colleagues to identify policy options to do this. I am pleased to see much greater oversight taking place in Congress this year and look forward to continuing to challenge the Administration's actions and to propose more suitable alternatives. We must continue to exercise our oversight responsibilities and investigate the Administration whenever we believe improper or ineffective actions are being taken.
Again, thank you for letting me know about your support for this resolution. Please be assured that I will continue to challenge the Vice President when I disagree with him. Should you have any specific ideas for policies to advance as an alternative to this Administration's agenda, please do not hesitate to let me know.
Nancy Pelosi's mailbox is full. Imagine that.
Hey gang, can someone point me to an article about, or remind me of why the scooter libby issue is "no different than what clinton did" which i am hearing from the right. also, don't most presidents pardon a long list of people at the end of their terms?
www.theethicalscumbag.blogspot.com
One of the other sites suggested for everybody to get paper plates with impeach on them and send them to Nancy Pelosi.
I was also against impeachment last November, knowing that it will take a herculean effort to begin to reverse the disastrous direction BushCo has taken us. But I didn't dream he would have the hubris to create even more disasters.
The revelations over the past few months of crimes committed by this misadministration have forced me to change my mind. We owe it to our Constitution and our republic to impeach Cheney/Bush/Gonzales, and I am contacting my Republican, right-wing Congressmen to demand that. Every week...just so they know we are paying attention!
Strawberry @ 28:
Strawberry, I haven't seen any video of it. If you do, please email it to either John Amato or the Site Team and we'll put it up.
And to TonyD, I didn't say that the Libby commutation was the straw that broke this camel's back, although I do see how that could have been construed. It was actually the tearing down of habeas corpus (card-carrying member of the ACLU here) that made me realize that the only way to stop Bush was to impeach him.
However, up until that point, I had been reticent to advocate for impeachment, simply because I know that with the moral equivalency with which the Republicans operate, we were opening up ourselves to a terrible precedent of having every Democratic elected official under threat of impeachment for every perceived infraction and I just thought it would be a circus.
Now I'm willing to submit to the circus to get my country back.
Gene @ 3:
...that's neat, but what is wrong with talking about it?
it seems you have to have pictures of cheney and bush hacking up babies!!!
wtf does it take???
im an old school republican that is so pissed and my party im hangin' here!!
#28-Strawberry
I second the motion. Do opponents of impeachment believe that Article II Section 4 [the impeachment clause] should be repealed? Those who rail against impeachment never see fit to address this question. That article was put in the Constitution for a specific purpose, to hold those in power accountable for their misdeeds. The longer one puts off impeachment, the greater the likelihood that Cheney/Bush will start a war against Iran, effectively ordering a death sentence against hundreds of thousands of Iranians. By ordering air strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities, it will ensure that many thousands of Iranians will have their underground water supply poisoned by U.S. bombs. There is already enough evidence against Cheney for Congress to proceed against him. The safety of Iran, as well as the rest of the world, depends upon it. I suspect that once impeachment proceedings were to begin against Cheney, that is when one will see a lot more members of Congress getting on board with Kucinich's proposal. Meanwhile, try and get that video of Kucinich debating Hunter on C & l!
To Toby Keith -- your wrong. The Dixie Chicks are right.
I've corresponded congressman Dave Thompson (D-Ca) for the past 18 months in an attempt to persuade him to reconsider his opposition to impeachment. He's a good man. A decorated, Airborne Vietnam vet, he opposed the Iraq war resolution, and has consistently fought the good fight against the administration.
Nevertheless, upon hearing of the Libby obstruction of justice commutation, I contacted his office and made clear that should he fail to change his mind and support impeachment of Bush and Cheney, I would not support his next bid for re-election. I meant it, too.
Professor Farnsworth @ 35:
Nothing wrong with it, but it is a waste of time and energy.
[Your 'concern' about our time is touching-Sitemonitor]
Impeach Gonzales first.
I don't know why no one in congress is talking about this. He's lying over and over again.
Nancy take impeachment off the table and put it on the house floor
Ryan @ 40:
No, it's the most sensible, responsible and patriotic thing to do.
TonyD @ 27:
Don't forget, the most serious criminals are often only brought down on their petty crimes. High level connections and propaganda can protect them on the big ones...
By my thinking trial and execution for war crimes and treason on FOX live is the appropriate punishment so impeachment is the _least_ we can do.
I'm serious. After the hundreds of thousands dead (remember the Iraqis) and the hundreds of billions stolen one of my biggest fears is that the "naughty, naughty!" slap on the wrist of impeachment is hardly an adequate deterrent to the next white house doing it all over again.
Which is to say, how much shame could _you_ bear for a billion dollars?
UUUUUUUGHHH! The Kucinich/Duncan Hunter debate was on the Situation Room...I just got High Speed internet and I'm still trying to figure this out...i can't even transfer my e-mail over yet...on the upside I can watch videos just like you guys now. So how would one hunt down and tranfer video that's not on you tube yet?
AMERICA NEEDS MORE INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE. THAT IS NOT LIEBERASS
Impeachment at this time is meaningless. If GWB was only a year or so into his term or in his first term it might make sense. All of the incredible stupid moves made by this administration keep coming out like one bad Republican dream after nightmare after horror story. Each and every investigation exposes more corruption and scandal. The republicans are saddled with two failed wars, Gonzo, a trashed DOJ and now largely ineffective DOJ, crushing corruption scandals of all kinds, pre-war intelligence, Guantanamo, habeas corpus, anything Cheney says, does, or touches. The Republicans have handed the Congress and Presidency to the Democrats for generations. All Democrats have to do is keep the pressure on and subpoena and do the court battles and let the Republicans keep obviously obstructing and spin themselves into the ground.
The only thing that could screw this up is an impeachment battle. It would give the Republicans a bullhorn issue to flog, distract the people and especially the press from the weekly disclosures that are poisoning the Republicans slowly to death. Disclosures that will last from now and through the next election and beyond.
DON'T IMPEACH!! It's a bonehead move that only helps the Republicans.
That said, consider a time in the not too distant future (about 18 months) when the government changes hands. Everything necessary to prosecute a non-sitting President and his co-conspirators becomes available, levers of power gone, every agency of the government that was dissed or ill-used becomes available and their records - CIA, DOJ, NASA, EPA, Interior, and State. That's the time to act.
Interesting that Adam Smith 'strongly believe(s) that [impeachment] should be reserved for the gravest of occasions', but somehow this particular occasion - perjury, obstruction of justice, collusion in conspiracy and committing a treasonous act - isn't quite grave enough. Or that 'pursuing impeachment would bitterly divide our country', as if NOT pursuing it isn't already bitterly dividing the country. As for 'challeng(ing) the Administration’s actions and to propose more suitable alternatives', and 'continu(ing) to exercise our oversight responsibilities and investigate the Administration whenever we believe improper or ineffective actions are being taken'...
What good has that done so far, Mr. Smith? Challenging the Administration's actions and investigating improper or ineffective actions as so far been an exercise in futility, if Bush can simply wave his sceptre and negate any penalty levied against his loyal minions. What more suitable alternatives? This Congress has shown a distinct lack of teeth in dealing with either Cheney or Bush - all bark and no bite.
'On issue after issue, the Administration’s policies have failed, and it is our responsibility to push for a change of course.' Right-O. Pardon me for asking so bluntly, but just exactly... how? 'Identifying policy options?' What sort of bureaucratic bull-speak is that? Challenge the Administration’s actions... and propose more suitable alternatives?? That's your pushing for change? That's your policy options?
I call bullshit. I'm not fooled by this load of mealy-mouthed political double-speak signifying nothing. And neither are the majority of the American people anymore - at least the ones who still vote.
For the first time, I feel a sense that Bush has finally crossed that invisible line. So if not now, when? If not for this, what? If not this Congress, who? Enough. It's time, Mr. Smith, Madam Speaker, members of the Congress.
It's time.
NICOLE Good to know. The right-wing has always taken advantage of liberal "softness", unwillingness to stand up to them, which is standing up for freedom, for human rights. That unwillingness has damaged democracy so deeply that restoring it as it were before this administration is going to be impossible. We might get some things/rights back, but the scar is going to stay there. Once you give up rights, it is very difficult to take them back. I will use the word "liberal" because nowadays it is not the same as 'democrats'. Democrats would have made brilliant republicans just decades ago. The people are not being represented by either party. These are the best politicians money can buy.
All the offenses(Suspending Habeas Corpus,Torture, Unlawful domestic wiretapping, Bush’s right to unilaterally declare anyone an enemy combatant....) are so essential to a functioning democracy, that you cannot turn a blind eye to it just for the sake of keeping people pleased and protecting the pseudo-harmony in the government. Liberals must show that they're tough, and not tolerant toward right-wing criminals. If you want to serve your country, fighting these criminals is the best service you could do. IMPEACH YESTERDAY!!!
... And before the "We can't do it, We don't have the votes in Congress" crowd chimes in-YEAH WE KNOW. BUT WE CAN STILL KEEP CALLING FOR IT. (Miss Kitty @8)
You can keep calling for it, of course. However, if impeachment cannot be achieved, then calling for it is worse that a waste of time, it's counterproductive. In fact, it actually benefits the Republicans, who will tar the entire effort as a partisan attack.
IMA(rrogant)O, the question is not whether impeachment is or is not patriotic. The answer to that will almost entirely depend on each individual's political bias. The correct question is whether or not there is any political advantage to be gained by attempting impeachment and failing. I think the answer to that is clearly "no".
Therefore, impeachment should only proceed once enough Republicans are willing to support the idea so that it has a reasonable chance of success. Since that's not likely to happen, no effort should be made to impeach. Instead, focus on electing a Democrat (really any Democrat) as President in '08, together with an expanded Democrat marjority in Congress and a clear majority in the Senate. Anything that imperils these objectives undermines our chance to reverse the damage caused by the current administration.
No, No, No!!! Present an alternative view of America that we can convince a majority of the electorate to support. Impeachment would last too long and make a victim of the idiot in the WH who has victimized so many. We can do a lot better than be the mirror image of the GOP attempting to impeach Clinton.
Who is the most likely GOP nominee? Right now it is Thompson, who mimics every Bush position--except that he thinks Cuban refugees might be terrorists and will make picking up Florida easier for the Dems than it has been in recent years.
That is a much better alternative than bringing the Congressional public rating lower with impeachment instead of addressing the concerns of the US public about Iraq and healthcare.
If we impeach Bush doesn't Cheney then become president? Can we impeach Bush and Cheney both at the same time? If we suceed with Bush and fail with Cheney then we have president Cheney.
That fake-ass hiefer Pelosi's hotline isn't accepting anymore messages... Our system of government blows. Let's fix it! FIRE EVERY INCUMBENT!!!
J R @ 54:
You, sir, are exactly the type of person both parties can safely ignore.
While we're mentioning bloggers who have good arguments for impeachment, check out The Existentialist Cowboy, always a thoughtful blog, which is doing a series on the numerous charges that could be made stick.
Don't you blogs have a monthly conference call with the Democratic leadership? If they're not taking any of our calls, maybe you could relay our thoughts to them.
Here's the all purpose talking point with the potential of bringing down this criminal regime, courtesy of Jonathan Turley in a Countdown piece posted here not so long ago:
How does this protect us from terrorism again? Oh, right, it doesn't. It just protects your sorry asses from any hint of accountability.
Hey Bob Roberts @55:
why is the U.S congress turnover rate so low ( around 2%, 98% of incumbents returning to office), even in the Soviet Union the turnover rate was higher (around 7-8%)? That is truly a distinct democratic feature. Wake up man. Possibly before you exercise your right to vote.
The dems, by scolding little Georgie over and over again have made themselves look like the weak sisters that the press has deemed them to be. Enough! It's time to use the founding father's tool of accountability...that of impeachment.
Bob Roberts @ 55:
And you, sir, are ignoring the fact that Speaker Pelosi has dismayed and disappointed us on several occasions since accepting the gavel. Her "Impeachment Is Off The Table" comment was downright creepy! As for both parties ignoring me, I could give a flying f*ck, honestly. This system is corrupt and not very effective; I could see it working much better under a multi-party system. And we should abolish the Electoral College, limit Executive power, restore habeus corpus, etc... Maybe I could've been a bit more eloquent in my last post, I suppose. :-P
Email Pelosi, to demand she support impeachment: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov
Impeachment now?? Too late. A big thank you to all those who fought against any mention of impeachment until it was too late. As Stephen Colbert just said, you have the courage to take a stand just when taking a stand no longer matters.
I hope when we look back, if we can, we figure out exactly what Americans need to see happeneing before they force the Legislative Branch to impeach an out of control Executive Branch, I mean something beyond blow jobs in the Oval Office.
MCD @ 13:
They can't circumvent term limits. If you listen carefully to everything Bush has said, especially with regards to Iraq, I think the way- the SOLE way, Bush defines democracy, is by voting. If you have a ballot, if you pick your monarch, then to him it's democratic, regardless of whatever else happens. It's the only part of the concept of a republic that he comprehends or respects. It's a position that's sometimes referred to as "hanoverian monarchy".
Pelosi's voicemail system is, indeed, down (let's hope she got a gazillion messages from people demanding impeachment) but you can still email her at the address above. Let's flood her inbox. Today, let's declare our independence from King George. Impeach, impeach, impeach!
Don't put it on the table-- put it on the floor of the house of repersenatives. act don't talk!
"If we impeach Bush doesn’t Cheney then become president? Can we impeach Bush and Cheney both at the same time? If we suceed with Bush and fail with Cheney then we have president Cheney."
Hasn't it become obvious of late that Cheney is and always has been the president? This was a coup d'etat. It began on 12/9/2000 in Florida.
• Impeachment will remain off the table until 20 R Senators decide to vote the facts instead of the conspiracy.
As for "doing nothing," Nicole, we are doing quite a lot, which is why the commutation, why Cheney had to admit to his fourthbranch idiocy, why the US attorney scandal is as outed as it is, and why Rove's connection to the caging scheme is as exposed as it is.
• The problem is not impeachment, it's the cronies still blocking the indictments.
We need to remove Gonzales -- a far more achievable task than impeachment during a war. We need to remove the crony 2nd circuit USA, as well.
Bugging Pelosi accomplishes nothing, and ignores the fact that after this week's vacation she is leading the House military appropriations fight -- which is a bit more important than fielding the calls that hysterics in the blog communities like this one are engaged in.
Some of us have been screaming impeachment since the day the Dems took back the H&S. I never bought the excuses: "..it's too late...there's not enough time...they're (Dems) laying the groundwork (with the hearings)...they'll just get acquited...not enough votes for conviction..it'll tie the Dems up so nothing else will get done...the voters don't want that...we want to work !with! the President (Conyers actually said that!)...let's work together in a bi-partisan manner (yep, he said that, too)..impeachment is off the table (Pelosi's last words!) etc..etc..
It doesn't matter. They must be impeached. If nothing else, all of their misdeeds MUST be placed in the record. It's a win-win situation for Dems. If they are acquited the voters will be so disgusted they will vote Dems in overwhelming majorities. If the are convicted the voters will be so disgusted they will vote Dems in overwheling majorities.
Every day that goes by is another day lost. Impeachment proceedings must begin NOW! We have to get our Democracy back.
IMPEACHMENT HAS NEVER WORKED.
In 220 years, there has NEVER been a successful impeachment of the chief executive. Both times it was tried, it was a Congressional CRIME, not a check and balance.
INDICTMENT is the task, and we are well on our way to that goal.
We are ata time when this admin needs to be removed completely from office.
Pelosi can be named interim President as we move up the elections.
If America does not hold Bush accountable for his crimes we may never get our dignity and respect back in the world. We will be just like everyone else.
Our rule of law is what separated us from other nations.
When the world views America as the most dangerous threat to peace
we are in trouble.
Pelosi needs to face facts. Bush is our Hitler.
J @ 64:
If that was the case can you please explain what happened in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. Bush has respect for elections as long as the fix is in.
And I'm SO HAPPY that Speaker Pelosi is smarter than the hysterics here and elsewhere.
The real fight is the military appropriations bill. We will advance amendments to withdraw the bulk of the troops by next April, to assert that the US will not establish permanent airbases in Iraq, and other very important efforts.
The alternative to actually having a functional Congress is the impeachment concept, which puts aside all other business to spend six months or more going through the exercise -- an exercise without a successful conclusion, based on the endless need of leftists to ignore the obvious complicity of the R party, in service to the DELUSION that purity is somehow politics.
We need a Congress that is growing in power and outing the crimes by turning them into EVIDENCE (instead of hearsay). We do not need to turn the agenda back over to the Republicans, so they can play 'Defend the President During Wartime.' We've heard all that plenty.
The polls will keep going down, and the resignations and indictments will continue. We are making progress, but the magic wand crowd just want to blow up the process and hope the pieces land in a better place. That's stupid -- understandable, but stupid.
Paul in LA @ 70:
If Reagan was impeached for his crimes do you think Bush and his former Reagan cronies would have tried any of this. No because they would have been in prison.
This entire Iraq/Al Qaeda mess goes back to the Reagan days.
History shows me that if you're a friend of the Republican party you will soon be an enemy of the USA.
Saddam
Bin Laden
Noreaga
Chalabi
The list goes on and on.
A thought just occured to me on this 4th of July.....while we are under martial law, will His Majesty allow us to barbecue outside or will that be considered an act of terrorism..
We are making progress, but the magic wand crowd just want to blow up the process and hope the pieces land in a better place. That's stupid -- understandable, but stupid.
Yeah, we're making progress like Bush is making progress in Iraq. There's not enough time for baby steps, and justice doesn't deserve baby steps.
I don't know what the hell happened to the formatting there.
Thank you Nicole, I have been watching your posts and am very pleased with your patriotic jounalistic integrity.
Of course complacency is no longer an option.
Hell's hotest fires are reserved for those who do nothing during a time of moral dilemma.
MLK quoting Dante
Impeach Cheney and Bush and then Rockefeller sweetheart Nancy Pelosi becomes president. And if she does not get our troops home, we impeach her. On and on until all of the criminals are weeded out of the job of public servitude.
They are servents to us, we are not servents to them.
Anyone suggesting that impeachment will do nothing is either in dire need of a white matter transplant or has a contrary agenda to the constitution.
If speaker Pelosi was smart she would have sent Bush another bill forcing him to start removing troops. Now she his the head of a Congress with the worst approval rate of all time. The Dems chose to ignore the peoples will just like George Bush. They were sent to stand up to him. Instead they were scared of being labeled as not supporting the troops and rolled over. Now that was stupid. Congress approval rating proves it.
With all the crimes Bush has been allowed to commit I guess will wait for the next President to blow up the Earth before we impeach him.
Bush is our Hitler.
"Yeah, we’re making progress like Bush is making progress in Iraq. There’s not enough time for baby steps, and justice doesn’t deserve baby steps."
I have perhaps been alive longer than you. Controlling the foreign policy of the US is a MUCH larger problem than you apparently imagine.
What you call 'baby steps' is actually what is otherwise known as the legal system.
• The idea that Congresses can impeach partisan Presidents has been disproven.
Our REAL problem is that there are cronies blocking our legal system. They must be removed.
(Also, you ignore the fact that Speaker Pelosi would become President Pro Tem if both Bush & Cheney are removed by impeachment -- which would be a political disaster. If they are forced to resign by indictment -- a process which HAS worked in the past -- then her tenancy would/will be more acceptable in terms of not splitting our democracy down the middle again).
Putting IMPEACHMENT 'back on the table', just in time for a big, fat, turkey dinner at Thanksgiving would give not only the US, but the world, a reason to give thanks.
[...] Clark Link to Article nancy pelosi Put Impeachment Back On The Table » Posted at Crooks and Liars on [...]
"If speaker Pelosi was smart she would have sent Bush another bill forcing him to start removing troops." -- langx
And here is perfect evidence that the blogs are NOT INFORMING their readers about the ACTUAL processes going forward, in favor of beating the impeachment gong in the hope that the noise will drown out the reality.
MILITARY APPROPRIATIONS BILL GOING FORWARD WITH AMENDMENTS IN ONE WEEK.
The REAL process, already underway, by the people who you prefer to slander because that's easier than actually being informed.
Paul in LA, your point is well taken, BUT
The US is already split, rent asunder by the mindless, murderous megalomania of the current White House denizens.
The NUMBER ONE PRIORITY is to remove them, ASAP, so they can do no more harm. As recent events have shown, they almost hourly further debase the principles on which the US was founded, especially the rule of law.
So whatever it takes to remove them quickly is the most desirable approach. If the country remains split for a while, so be it, especially since the power will change to the antithesis of the current administration, which is what this country needs
Doing the opposite of what the malignant bushies would do is the perfect prescription for a healthy US.
4 words to congress
POWER OF THE PURSE
Get on it.
Death to King Louie!!!
"I’ve corresponded congressman Dave Thompson (D-Ca) for the past 18 months in an attempt to persuade him to reconsider his opposition to impeachment." -- Longtooth
Then it would help if you would realize that his name is MIKE Thompson, not Dave.
He's a Blue Dog, so if you can replace him with a progressive, GO FOR IT.
#84-Tom Doff
Well said.
Paul in LA,
Your argument is complete bull. You sound like Pres. Ford's apologists when he pardoned Nixon. "The country will be divided, we need to heal". 2007, present day, the country is divided, has healed. NOT. what Ford showed is that nobody with power pays for his crimes. Had Nixon gone to jail, Bush would think twice before breaking the law. People like you on the left keep it in a mediocre level that turns people away. No wonder they call democrats pussies.
"The NUMBER ONE PRIORITY is to remove them, ASAP, so they can do no more harm."
Impeachment is NOT an immediate (or actual) method of removing them.
"So whatever it takes to remove them quickly is the most desirable approach."
Correct. Forcing them to RESIGN (under indictment) is the quickest approach.
We are already following that course, and have been, and are making significant progress.
"4 words to congress POWER OF THE PURSE Get on it." -- Trez
3 words to Trez: MILITARY APPROPRIATIONS BILL.
Already on it. Two weeks.
Your point being what, exactly, Tony? That politics is involved?
That's not really news.
The argument I am advancing is INDICTMENT, the ONLY process that has ever removed a president.
If you think that's bull, then you have only to look to see how it was that Nixon won by landslide, and then resigned when threatened by indictment. And was pardoned by a Republican who Nixon put into power for the purpose -- one of his close friends.
No such circumstance exists this time. The next President will NOT pardon, and only Nixon's GOOD FRIEND Gerald Ford would do so anyway.
Errol #87, Thanx.
Hell yeah!
First Article: For illegal spying on American citizens.
...
Paul in LA.
I'm 99% percent sure that the next president, be it democrat or republican, will do nothing. Why?He/she will say that the country should move on, look at the future, not dwell in the past, the need for healing, come together,, uniting not dividing etc etc.. and also try to build bridges with the opposition (if a democrat is elected). In the end, Bush and co. will go free and once again justice will not be served.
You all should look up "Impeachment" in Wikipedia.
In there you will find an impressive amount of attempts to get a Bush impeachment referendum on the table by several congress members. After studying it, the efforts don't seem to generate too much interest, except those that bring it up. Maybe things will change now.
I'm surprised Nicole has come on the bandwagon this late. For as long as I have been on here, which hasn't been but a few months, the word "impeach" followed by several colorful adjectives has been a popular word thrown around among the readers of this forum for quite some time now.
I imagine alot of us voted in November for a change to get "impeachment on the table". That's what I was hoping.
I think now the momentum is building. And you know Bush is going to eventually grant Libby a full pardon. It won't be now but it will be before he leaves office. Bush waited just before Libby was pushed off the end of the blank before saving him.
Bush will do more things to tick us off. Lets stop waiting for him to come up with more BS and throw the SOB out.
People said Pelosi's mailbox if full. Email Hoyer, her second in command. I did that last night. I'm a Steny Hoyer fan but I had no problem telling him what I thought about Pelosi and him not stepping up to the plate to get this administration to show some accountability.
Mailbox full--let's make sure it is EVERY day until this assclown is impeached.
ITMFA
...
I've been screaming for impeachment since 2002.
"I’m 99% percent sure that the next president, be it democrat or republican, will do nothing."
Then you are 99% PURE DEFEATIST. Congratulations.
• Me, I'm an hour away from tonight's protest activities.
It's no doubt FAR easier to 'know' that nothing will change.
Be honest, if there wasn't enough of a reason or political will to impeach before today, there won't be now either. Bush has demostrated not only how a complete jerk can archieve presidency, but how useless an opposition can be.
Whilst it may be even more pie-in-the-sky, I saw wait till after next federal election, become a signatory to the ICC & as a reconcilatory gesture towards the world, send Bush & Cheney to the Hague.
=my2c
BC
Johnny Bravo, I was right there next to you, TWO YEARS of fighting for impeachment, hard. Thousands of letters were sent to Rep. Conyers, and I don't regret those efforts a bit. They encouraged him to publish his book, G. W. Bush Vs. The United States Constitution, which is amazing.
But we're in the majority now, and working for indictment is the better path.
I've been on the impeachment bandwagon since 2003. Why wouldn't you be on it? He lied to the nation to start an unnecessary war. That was enough for me. Any man capable of doing such a thing, I will never trust again for anything!! Once a proven liar... (I mean about big stuff, ya know, not little whie lies; they keep society together.).
"People said Pelosi’s mailbox if full. Email Hoyer, her second in command."
Hoyer is NOT Pelosi's second. HE is the majority leader.
The Speaker's job is larger than managing the affairs of one side of the House.
(and, as people should realize, she is inherently conflicted, since she is who would replace the current executive if they were convicted after impeachment).
Unfortunately, pressuring Speaker Pelosi will be futile. She is third in line to the Presidency, thus her pursuing the impeachment of both bush and Cheney would be a conflict of interest, since she would be the beneficiary of such an action.
Rather, we need to flood Speak Pelosi with requests to RECUSE HERSELF on the issue of impeachment, and instead place Rep. Conyers in charge of it as the head of the Judiciary Committee.
Demand that Speaker Pelosi RECUSE herself in this matter. It's the only way Impeachment will happen.
Are you reading this, Ms. Pelosi...Obama...Clinton??? It's the only way that Congress will EVER gain respect. Please, please PLEASE get that maniac removed...NOW, or America is dead. If you do, the Rethuglicans won't win elections for a very long time. They must be stopped, or I fear that a terrorist attack will come before the '08 elections. After all the criminality that began before 2000, Bush, with Libby's commutation, as brazenly proven COMPLETE disregard for justice and laws. Any true Patriot is viscerally shaking with rage and fear, while the 30% are smirking along with their Chimperor.
"Rather, we need to flood Speak Pelosi with requests to RECUSE HERSELF on the issue of impeachment, and instead place Rep. Conyers in charge of it as the head of the Judiciary Committee." --Cleran
Rep. Conyers AGREES with Speaker Pelosi that impeachment is off the table.
No bill of impeachment will leave his committee until there are sufficient R Senators who will vote for conviction and removal. Otherwise, it's a dead issue.
Bush and Cheney should be impeached and thrown out of office, but the votes are not there. I don't even think we have the votes to impeach in the House, let alone to convict in the Senate.
It is probably a bad precedent (for a bad President) in any case. Remember that things can always get worse than they are -- nobody in Baghdad believed that but now look what they have. We still have a rough outline of a rule of law in this country, although I admit that it is getting more blurry. If we start impeaching and ousting our Presidents as a matter of course I think it could cause more damage to our Union than the Bushies already have. I'll admit that it is getting close -- but again we do not have the votes. I'd also like to vote for the troops to leave Iraq and for a suspension of all aid to Israel, but that ain't a' gonna' happen in this planet, either.
Im calling her, emailing her. We want our country back asap and if she doesn't want to help, she can just watch from the sidelines.
This is why it is a dream:
The impeachment procedure is in two steps. The House of Representatives must first pass "articles of impeachment" by a simple majority. (All fifty state legislatures as well as the District of Columbia city council may also pass articles of impeachment against their own executives.) The articles of impeachment constitute the formal allegations. Upon their passage, the defendant has been "impeached."
Next, the Senate tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a President, the Chief Justice of the United States presides over the proceedings. Otherwise, the Vice President, in his capacity as President of the Senate, or the President pro tempore of the Senate presides. This may include the impeachment of the Vice President, although legal theories suggest that allowing a person to be the judge in the case where she or he was the defendant wouldn't be permitted. If the Vice President did not preside over an impeachment (of someone other than the President), the duties would fall to the President Pro Tempore.
(wikipedia.) Oh yeah, John Roberts will be all gung-ho to remove Bush...
Left off the important part other than that Roberts or Cheney would preside -- it requires a 2/3 vote in the Senate to actually get rid of the chimp. It isn't clear if you can impeach the V.P. since technically he presides over the proceedings. We would be in uncharted waters, with decisions deferring to.... the SUPREME COURT! Oh yeah, baby, they will help us out, I'm sure...
Look folks, we screwed the pooch when we allowed Bush to get re-elected. My only hope is that he actually leaves office when he is supposed to.
Obviously, Paul in LA, you haven't learned anything from history. It'll repeat itself. If you don't impeach now when the wounds are still fresh, he'll never see the court. I always count on the people's ability to forget, that's why I'm 99% sure (point in case, the reason for going to war changed many times in 2-3 years, but many people still repeat the government's version of the day). History has proven exactly that. You call me defeatist, but when it comes to Impeachment you're not a defeatist, ehhh.IMPEACH!!!!
"Oh yeah, John Roberts will be all gung-ho to remove Bush…"
The Chief Justice presides, but has no vote.
• Of course you can impeach the VP. (The Chief Justice presides).
"Look folks, we screwed the pooch when we allowed Bush to get re-elected."
He did NOT get reelected. He stole both elections, and if you want to whine about that now, then you ought to look at how LITTLE the major blogs did to out the vote-fraud.
Tony, if you want me to learn from history, then I will.
• Impeachment has NEVER worked.
Nixon resigned. I believe Bush & Cheney (& Gonzales, etc.) will be forced to resign as well.
The Chief justice would rule the motion out of order (or some other parlimentary trick) and that would be the end of it. The person in charge of the proceedings has an enormous amount of power. It doesn't matter anyway, since you can not find enough Republicans to make up the 2/3 majority required to approve the vote. We would lose on a simple majority, don't forget about Lieberman -- and there might be some other Democrats who were opposed to it in principle. (How would Hillary vote?)
The problem with the fradulent vote is that it is too late by the time that you have any proof. What can you do, grab your trusty AK-47 and start running wild in the streets? There are things worse than having a crook in the White House. (At least he hasn't pushed the big red button yet.)
Yes, both elections were stolen but it could only happen because the vote was close in the states that mattered.
Paul in LA Says:
Tony, if you want me to learn from history, then I will.
• Impeachment has NEVER worked.
May I ask why?! I bet it has a lot to do with the unwillingness of our political elite to follow the law. So it never works. Let's take it out of the constitution.Not a good idea. We, the people should dictate the agenda, not be part of the political game. If every democrat, patriot republican put enough pressure on the congress then it'll show that impeachment does work. Imagine a world without Impeachment. Why should a president be accountable?! Impeachment my friend, That's the only thing that safeguards the executive power from falling into some dictator's hand. Otherwise if we wait till "the dictator" leaves office, that day might never come in the not too distant future. Then you can kiss your rights goodbye.
Enough of these Bandits! Impeach both, Bush and Cheney and do it now!!!
Pelosi and Reid wasted too much time. Too late now.
"• Impeachment has NEVER worked.
"May I ask why?! I bet it has a lot to do with the unwillingness of our political elite to follow the law."
Hardly. In both cases it was tried, it was a CONGRESSIONAL CRIME.
"So it never works. Let’s take it out of the constitution."
You can get to work on that any time.
"We, the people should dictate the agenda,"
That would be great. Too bad 'shoulds' don't run the world, eh?
"If every democrat, patriot republican put enough pressure on the congress then it’ll show that impeachment does work."
The problem is on the R side, you know, the co-conspirators. You may think that can be ignored, but it can't.
Indictment is a better path, because it does NOT involve the political process for its basis, as impeachment does. An impeachment during a coup, with the opposition party taking over after a conviction would be a disaster that might sever the Constitution altogether.
And now, on this day of Independence, and to celebrate the First Amendment, I leave for the streets with my signs and my friends.
Happy Fourth of July, all you fighters for freedom.
Try not to bash the Dems so much. They are really a lot better than you give them credit.
Nicole at 34
"...we were opening up ourselves to a terrible precedent of having every Democratic elected official under threat of impeachment for every perceived infraction..."
So why is that a bad thing exactly?
I think it's time for the Administrative branch to operate on the straight and narrow for a generation or so. Mr./Ms Clean might have the wherewithal to clean up Congress too. I hope you don't think Dems should be allowed to get away with more because their "heart is in the right place?
She's back...
Call Out The Instigator
by Cindy Sheehan
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/03/2276/
Decision to commute Libby's sentence brings Cindy back and calling to march to Washington from MLK's grave in Georgia
BabushkaBlue @ 30:
San Fansisco office
(415) 556-4862
It is 8:37PM on the 4th of July. Fireworks is scheduled at 9:00PM. It's raining... been raining all day. Wonderful day it's been... started out early this morning when I found my horse’s legs all cut up from getting caught up in the fence. You see, she is a young beautiful female. And a stupid shit male horse is next door. Not his fault though, I mean what would you do if a beautiful young horney lady waved her flag in your face? My son is a bit disappointed in this weather because the fireworks show is probably a wash.
Oh well, what a day!
On the impeachment thing... I keep hearing Pelosi saying it's off the table, reason I believe is it would hinder positive Democrat votes in the 2008 elections. But at this point I have to believe the opposite. Why? Because with this Libby commute, the Whitehouse criminals may have finally done themselves in... the truth is evident, and if the Democrats DON"T step up to the plate to save our country then any hope for a 2008 sweep may be "off the table".
Think about it.
abarts @ 118:
No!
It is never too late to stand up. Never too late to support the constitution and Rule of Law.
We don't have the votes = We have no hope and lost the will to fight
Impeachment is the first step which will most certainly open the doors to convictions which is what we should concern ourselves with only after the House votes for impeachment. The evidence is overwhelming which will chip away at each Senator as the hearings progress. Congress will feel pressure like never before. We must still believe in the power of the people. Everyone agrees it is going to be difficult, but this difficulty is nothing compared to the trying times ahead of us if Bush and Cheney are allowed to get away with all of their law breaking. Undoubtedly investigation into the Bush administration will also expose other federal agency corruption that we have to know about in order to correct it. There definitely will be another Bush if he is not held accountable. Nixon never should have been pardoned for this reason. Not going after Bush essentially makes the Constitution worthless. What is next Constitution burning?
Forget the Leadership. Convince the Judiciary Committee.
Paul, you know very well that Nixon would not have resigned on his own, without impreachment proceedings having begun.
If they started impeachement proceedings, even without the votes, and then those 21 senators, up for re-election in 2008, saw the mass popularity of this with the American public (70%), might they be suddenly interested in partaking? (Or do they need the votes to move forward at all?) (*Not American here)
#126-Hadenuf
Well said. What you said should be considered an obvious truth and for Paul in L.A. to deny it would seem to be an exercise in obfuscation. If it was not for the very real threat of impeachment proceedings being brought against him, Nixon certainly would not have resigned from office. As laudable as Olbermann's speech was on Countdown yesterday, Bush and Cheney are certainly not going to resign on their own, which is why impeachment is the only logical approach to take against this odious administration.
pelosi and reid are as Useless as Tits on a Bull !
reid is a Total Disgrace for being such a Coward by not filibustering a god dam thing.
Paul in LA @ 114:
No they won't....They don't give a fuck.
Nixon resigned because he was losing his own Republicans. The writing was on the wall and he saw it. Would the same thing happen today if proceedings were begun? Maybe not. The Republicans these days seem to be an intractable, hardened, loyal, delusional group - and now they have the loyal support of The Media which has gladly fed the masses administration disinformation without questioning it.
That aside, I still think articles of impeachment should be brought. Indictments? Heck, bring 'em on, too! Time to move this to the next, much more serious, level. Fuck partisanship and trying to work with the other side. The Bush Administration truly believes is is above the law and will destroy this country in the process - unless they are stopped.
This isn't about impeaching a Republican or Democrat. It's about impeaching two criminals that have run the country into the ground while following their own private agenda.
I called Bush a post turtle and an idiot before he was elected, and nothing since has caused me to change my mind.
It's time impeachment charges were brought against these two men for hijacking the United State, killing innocent people around the world, trampling on habeus corpus, attempting to imprison citizens without judicial review, using signing statements that they thought allowed them to break the laws, trampling the bill of rights and illegal search and seizure, and now blocking an investigation into their own conduct by an abuse of powers.
As well as being downright ugly. The horror, the horror.
Bob Fertik @ 16:
okay. I signed the petition. **sigh** and **shrug** fat lot of good it'll do but oh well ... may as well give it a go anyway.
"Paul, you know very well that Nixon would not have resigned on his own, without impreachment proceedings having begun."
No, Nixon resigned four days after the release of the "smoking gun" tape.
That was August 9, 1974, and the impeachment hearings had started in MAY.
When the pressure on the Republicans is enough, then indictment will bring these felons down, or impeachment will be possible, because the R will start it. Otherwise you're just bashing Dems for your own reasons.
Gene @ 3:
If this is the case, I hereby propose that Gene by impeached forthwith.
Recall that in 2006 Republicans stayed home, when they were disgusted with their own politicians.
Unless Pelosi, Clinton, Reid, etc... start picking up on the obvious need to impeach Bush/Cheney, they will risk the same backlash. I'll vote for a pro-impeach candidate over a milquetoast, leave-well-enough-alone politician.
The point of this Judiciary Committee pressure campaign is hard to see. Chairman Conyers has been the primary voice in outing Bushco's vote-fraud, the lies leading to war, the cconspiracy to defraud the United States, to the point of writing a book with about 25 major impeachable offenses, with evidence, statute violated, and legal appraisal.
• And yet how many have read it?
http://tinyurl.com/2f98w8
As Chairman, he has made a political decision based on his considerable experience. He is totally aware of the issues. He does not see the result of an impeachment effort as being an acceptable risk.
As it is, we can take the track of inherent legitimacy, which is investigation (oversight) and documentation of crimes. We need a functional Justice Dept. to turn that into indictments, but that goal is ATTAINABLE politically. AG Gonzales CAN be forced out, with or without the thugs in the Shitehouse's approval. And there is nothing they can do but whine about it.
An impeachment process, though, instantly a political act with ramifications that cannot be adequately measured.
• The 'fourth branch' argument of Cheney is not new, but when they were backed into a corner by Conyers and Leahy, he trotted it out -- and it lasted less than a week.
Scalia and Bork must be dashed. Senator Kerry picked it up and slapped Addington in the face, and Rep. Emmanuel lampooned it, and forced a loud voice vote in the House to express Cheney's disgrace.
And now the commutation, which is a shock wave through the Justice Dept. and the rest of the legal system. BIG DAMN DEAL. And, again, while it's clear that they did it to appease their rightwing base, the main reason was sussed out correctly by the blogs: it was to preserve Libby's fifth amendment privelege -- which is AGAIN the pressure of Conyers and Leahy.
Both recent cases show that the Executive is critically WEAK. The military appropriations bill fight is going to be intense (it is really where all this impeachment pressure should be going) -- and I have to question why it is being pressed now, when that bill is pending, when the potentially biggest fight on Iraq policy is about to be fought.
Bombard Speaker Pelosi? She's BUSY.
Why don't you bombard your representatives and demand that they rein in the abuse of our troops, and stem the crony access to the loading dock at the Treasury, by becoming co-sponsors of the relevant amendments to this MAIN budget bill, the kind of bill that can bring Bush's refusal to heel even when critically damaged, into further relief, to his detriment.
"We don’t have the votes = We have no hope and lost the will to fight" -- moonsha
I protested two hours on the street (and at a freeway overpass) today. What did you do?
In the face of any serious impeachment effort, a likely scenario could be:
an Israeli suitcase nuke will be used for a false-flag bombing of a major city, maybe even Congress while in session. (GAO radiation monitoring overflights in NYC detected abnormal radiation coming from the Israeli consulate.)
Bush will then declare martial law, invoke NSPD-51 and appoint his own replacements for dead Congressmen. With Congress nullified, Cheney can then declare Iran the cause of the bombing and launch his desired strike. We will be at war, and forget about 2008 elections. Impeachment will be impossible, of course.
Cheney is due to have a heart operation this summer to replace the battery, so I predict no terror event until the operation is over and he has healed. I give it until October. I bet no AIPAC members will be killed in such an event.
"unless Pelosi, Clinton, Reid, etc… start picking up on the obvious need to impeach Bush/Cheney, they will risk the same backlash." -- workfaster
The usual threat, and it is NONSENSE.
You don't get to vote for Pelosi unless you live in SF. Same for Reid, but Reid isn't even up for an election in 2008.
The only real question is whether you will WORK to remove an unnacceptable representative in YOUR district.
And the presidential race is moot to any such grand threats. The Democratic party deserves quite a bit of praise for what they have accomplished in just six months, tomato flingers notwithstanding.
Bert, you have the most morbid version of the paranoia.
We live in a time when massive destruction could come at any moment. We were almost all destroyed several times over already (survival of 1963, 1983 were both 1 human being wide, without whom hundreds of millions would be dead).
Your proposition of the worst happening is NOT good politics, nor is it 'realism' or anything like that.
It's FEAR MONGERING, and it is despicable.
[Deleted. What is this thread about? Oh yeah. Putting impeachment back on the table. Your comment seemed to be about Bill Clinton. Hmmm-Sitemonitor]
That is what the republicans and democrats would want you people to think. "That impeachment is not an option" at this time.,.....but keeping the WAR and letting the crooks and liars get away with murder and letting their buddies get off the hook (from going to jail, i.e Libby) is more justifiable and reasonable political move.
IMPEACHMENT is merely a "distraction" to the democratic agenda is a lame and non-sensible reason. As we known in the past and know today. The process for impeachment today would take much shorter than it took NIXON or Clinton. Evidences are there, the laws are in place, and with the help of technology, the process should take less time when done correctly.
Democrats majority led Congress and their Republican colleages ARE the "distraction" at this point; to the rule of LAW (to ENFORCE the LAW) and end a government that THINK they are above the LAW and above the vitizens of this country. To end the abuse of power.
It is obvious that the SPEAKER of the house is doing the same. ABUSING its power over the demand from the people to up-hold the LAW. THE LAW ABIDING people that pay taxes, vote on elections, follow the rules of the land and those who participates in a jury TRIAL.
SPEAKER is NOT above the LAW, nor is SHE above the JUDICIAL system. When someone breaks the LAW, the judicial system should decide guilt or innocence. Speakers duty is to up-hold and enforce the LAW when it calls for justice. She can not deny the FACT that she knows the corruption that exist at the HILL. She has in numerous times admitted it. By blocking impeachment at the expense of this nation's treasury and at the expense of the taxpayers and voter of this nation IS doing a dis-service and OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE.
The Speaker has an OATH to fulfill and she is NOT doing the fundamental duty she has. Under the new democratic leaderships in cahoots with their republican colleages, obstructing justice in exchange for manuevering for POLITICAL purposes and political GAIN for the upcoming 2008 Election is more RISKY than they think.
They are UNDERestimating the will of the PEOPLE. ANYONE who LOVE this country will RISE up against the current CORRUPT, lying, self-serving, body of government, come 2008.
This is WORSE time than NIXON era, or REAGAN or BUSH one era or CLINTON era. It is a time to REMIND ourselves of who we ARE as a nation. Who we are ethically. Who we are morally. What we are as a human-being. All of THAT has been LOST in nearly during the 5 generations of PRESIDENCY. The sense of who we are are in Question.
When the time got ROUGH we find our nation in a FALSE sense of SECURITY. The insurances that we have supported had turned their backs on their obligation. The Health industry has become from a noble profession into a exorbitant for-profit driven industry. The social security taxes that we have contributed for our future has been squandered by the elected officials to enrich themselves and those no-bid contracts they have approve to their friends and corporate/political campaign contrubutors.
The Bank industries have enriched themselves from so many bank fees and the sub-prime loan have taken advantage of so many first-time homebuyers that have taken them for a ride to bankrupsy and foreclosures. Its a madness that many common people are just not aware of it because they are too busy slaving away working two or three jobs.
This system of Capitalism is destin to collapse if WE allow this madness to continue.
Ron @ 29:
I don't understand how anyone is going to "challenge the Vice President." He doesn't intend to be available to the Congress. So your Congressman stating he'll continue to challenge is bs.
Impeachment isn't ever going to be on the table. I used to have an English prof that loved to tell upset students "If you are going to be raped and you know it and there is nothing you can do about it, you need to smile and find a way to enjoy it".
I thought he was one sick twisted fuck. Now I know what he was talking about. Screw on those smiles boys and girls :)
Because you have no recourse to the law ... anymore
President Cheney would be scarier than President Bush. Besides, I think an impeachment would just widen the divide between left and right even more. We really need to work on bridging the gaps more than widening them.
Paul in LA @ 142:
Pardon me, but what exactly do you call our lovely Department of Fatherland Security except for pure fearmongers? Red alert! Uhuh. Red alert! Uhuh! Red alert! - Boy who cried wolf for political purposes... And you call me a fear monger? That's less than despicable, it's moronic.
This administration has lied, cheated, and denied the Constitution, stolen an election twice, possibly been involved in a coverup of 9/11, condones torture, secret courts, denial of habeas corpus, puts itself above the law, uses signing statements to negate laws passed by Congress, covers up everything it does, commutes cronies who have broken the law, and is owned by AIPAC among others. And you call me a fearmonger in the face of this kind of treasonous behavior? You tell *me* not to expect something bad happening when these rats have their back against the wall over impeachment? I prefer to consider real possibilities rather than Pollyanna futures, and prepare for them. Whatever your true reason for deflecting consideration of the possibilities, I need not adhere to that. Perhaps I insulted someone you owe allegiance to?
Hey everybody... take a deep breath and just cool down. We all want the whitehouse mobsters to go away as soon as possible. Whether it is impeachment or indictment or prison or resignation. The main point is... we need to let our reps know, over and over again, that we want the bush cobal gone. How they do it is up to them... just as long as we make sure they know how we feel and that we feel there is some urgency to it. bush&co can do a lot more damage in the time remaining... we need to put the heat on congress so they can put the heat on the admin. As a last resort, maybe congress can just keep them so busy we can run out the clock without too much further damage.
Honestly folks, do you people really think that Bush/Cheney are afraid of impeachment? They've already made themselves and their "friends" billions of dollars. They could leave office tomorrow and they would feel like they accomplished more than they had hoped to do going into the office.
Impeachment is not enough. They're probably amazed that they've made it this far.
You want to really stick it to them? Seize their assets. Seize their family fortunes. Seize Haliburton's assets, and have the company dissolved. Leave them all destitute and a shade above the poverty line. Anything less is not really justice. Its nothing that they're not trying to do to the rest of us.
If they get to kick back and enjoy the fruits of their "labors" then they will feel no remorse. They will feel no sense of "wrongdoing".
In a word, they are TRAITORS to the American people. And a traitor really deserves death. A traitor should have their belongings confiscated, and then be hung on the White House lawn. And let any future would-be dictators know that this country is ruled by the people, for the people. And if you don't think we have the constitutional rights to do such things, check out http://article-5.org/ a website dedicated to Article V of the Constitution.
We're given, by the Constitution in Article V, the right to hold our own conventions, above and beyond the President and Congress, to rewrite our country's laws and reshape our nation without the haze of bi-partisan politics, and without the smokescreen and sense of futility that has us all sitting on our hands even now. And the first law I would propose in such a convention would be "Death by execution to government officials who subvert and defraud the American people" This right of convention has been ignored and denied. All the requirements have been met, but we're still being denied.
Wake up people, this is worse than you think.
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