Guiliani Needs A History Refresher
(F)ormer New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani delivered a speech to the Jewish Community Relations Council in New York:
[I]f we flee Iraq, if we do what the Democrats want us to do - which is to not only flee Iraq, not only retreat in Iraq, but give them a timetable of our retreat.
Have you ever heard of that in a history of war? Have you ever heard of an army being required to give a printed schedule of its release to the enemy? It makes no sense, does it? Whether you're for the war or against it, you would never have an army retreat on a six- month, one-year, 18-month schedule explaining, We'll reduce the forces by 20,000, then by 30,000, then by 50,000. Gee, you can then figure out when the forces are depleted enough so you can really do damage to them.
Giuliani needs to brush up on his history. A publicly-announced gradual reduction of forces is exactly what the United States did in the Vietnam War.
This is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?
Gasbag
Not a good person.
This kind of talk is way beyond irresponsible.
Have you ever heard of that in a history of war?
Mistake #1: Victory was declared years ago aboard a ship by a president with his nuts in a sling.
Mistake #2: The phrasing should be, "Have you ever heard of that in a history of occupation?", and the answer is "Yes."
So I guess he should've said more correctly, 'Look, we tried that with Vietnam and look what happened.'
Someone who applied so strongly for various deferments during the Vietnam war likely wouldn't be too keen on referencing that period o' history, no.
The irony is so thick that I think it's peeling the wallpaper.
This is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?
Yeah, that is the best they have got. Every reason in the world not to vote for him.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
Guiliani has such a low IQ, especially compared with candidates on our side like Biden. Nor does Guiliani have the experience of fighting terrorism like Obama. Boy, does the GOP suck!
The 1973 Oil Crisis began on October 17, 1973, when the members of Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC, consisting of the Arab members of OPEC plus Egypt and Syria) announced, as a result of the ongoing Yom Kippur War, that they would no longer ship petroleum to nations that had supported Israel in its conflict with Syria and Egypt (i.e., to the United States, its allies in Western Europe, and to Japan).
If we had done something in the 70's during the Arab Oil embargo to lead this country out of oil dependence we would not be in this jam.
Sorry, but 'best and brightest' DOES NOT APPLY to the republican party.
Looks like Rudy will be like a class we took in high school (the 'Take a number' post at groupnewsblog.net).
PARIS (Reuters) - A senior French politician, now a minister in President Nicolas Sarkozy's government, suggested last year that U.S. President George W. Bush might have been behind the September 11, 2001 attacks.
Is anyone else sick of hearing mostly republicans saying "the enemy"? Who is the enemy? We are caught in the middle of a sectarian civil war with both sides attacking as well as al Quadia.
wes @ 13:
The Enemy is US
#5 Dennis, and #9, LA Confidential,
amen and amen.
L.A. confidential, yes I agree, the Dems need to stop trying to get the Jewish vote and should abandon Israel. We don't need Israel, and the Arabs will be nicer to us and give us more oil if we at long last go on their side.
What have Israeli's or their descendents ever done for the world, especially compared to all of the contributions the Arabs have made to our society.
wes, the ENEMY is GWB!
"The American Lifestyle is Not Negotiable". . . Dick Cheney
I can just hear the cheers from the giant pickup crowd dreaming about someday owning the 8000 sq ft energy guzzling Mansion in a Box.
Wow! We "made it"
You can say anything to the willfully ignorant. That is how the right wing has achieved the success that it has so far. Play to the fear or prejudice of the audience. They will then vote against their own interests.
Rudy talking about history and foreign policy is like Bush explaining brain surgery.
grup @ 16:
O_o
What.
grup @ 16:
I don't think the United States should abandon anybody. The problem is trying to solve problems by force-warfare. It doesn't work. But force being a for profit industry doesn't help either.
Even Guiliani's biggest policy "successes", i.e. the reducing of crime in NY isn't down to his Broken Windows policy. Tens of 1000's of hoodlums from poor, broken families just coming of age never arrived during his tenure. The demographics jerked and the urban blight lifted somewhat... The cleanup success is mostly down to Roe vs. Wade removing countless unwanted pregnancies and he knows it.
LA confidential, yes I agree, force warfare is NEVER warranted or successful. Just look at history. And Israel would be better off pledging that it will no longer EVER use, threaten or resort to force warfare. Then, perhaps, the midesat can live in peace.
grup @ 24:
Everyone has to contribute. Everyone has to accept responsibility. Not easy with corruption running rampant in every hall of power on the planet. "The Rich Mens Club".
Amazing how these guys assume Iraqis are so dumb they won't notice long columns of military vehicles driving towards Kuwait. I know - we'll tie picnic baskets on the top of the tanks - that'll fool 'em!
If he's not the best and brightest of the GOP, he's in an amazing 8 way tie.
phlounder @ 20:
Do you mean the lobotomies his whole administration don't remember having? No wonder they don't recall anything.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
LA Confidential, well, Israel should contributre by pledging no force of arms EVER. If it weren't for Israel, the Arabs would be peaceful and scientifically and socially progressive cultures.
...yeah, we did have a timetable in Vietnam..and just look what happened...what ? no dominos actually fell ? Pol Pot was actually driven out by North Vietnamese Forces and not by the US ?..yikes !
Rudy has absolutely no stake in peace. Peace would hurt rather then help him. Even so, he could expatriate at will and live on the French Riviera if we wished.
Thats the extent of his commitment. Probably made a bundle doing this appearance.
Timetables always work, especially in warfare. Surprise in warfare is not all that it is cracked up to be. The enemy needs to know our timetables in order to acheve peaceful coexistence, and Israel's timetable is passed due to withdraw from all Arab lands and pledge no more use of arms.
For the White House, the enemy is the Democrats and the Independents.
As for Guiliani, there is really only ONE relevant discussion to have about this guy:
What did he know about 9/11 and when did he know it? It's established that he knew that WTC7 was going to be "pulled" before it collapsed. He has also publicly stated that there will be another attack if the Democrats take the White house in 2008. Where did he get that information, and why is he considered a person that should know such things?
Really, every time that idiot appears in public, some people in the room should nail these questions on him.
Because that's what the public actually needs to know about the G-man.
Of course Guiliani knew all about 9/11 beforehand. Just too many coincidences.
grup @ 28:
I'm not sure what it's going to take to neutralize the long term animosities and bitterness between these two foes.
LA Confidential, well even if you are not sure, Israel should still lay down its arms in peace. There are many more Arabs than Israelis in the middle east, and Israel or Israeli descendents have never contributed much of anything to modern western culture, science and the arts -- compared to all that the Arabs have contrinuted.
Ronald Reagan did not have to issue a timetable, he just fled from Lebanon after he had gotten hundreds of US Marines blown to smithereens in Beirut. The Terrorists saw Reagan cut and run, and then Wag The Dog in Grenada, to hide his Beirut surrender to Terrorists. Some one please Drag(bad pun intended) this information to the attention of Mr. Selective Amnesia, Rudi.
..
Seamus, yes, Reagan merely emboldened our enemies and he weakened our military. Regan was absolutely no good on defense.
This is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?
No, Fred Thompson is considered the real intellectual. How pathetic is that?
Fred Thompson has no intellectual capacity. He could never have been a lawyer in real life. Only on TV.
How long is it going to be before people really start to get tired of Rudy's "9/11, 9/11, 9/11!" "Did I mention I was Mayor of NYC during 9/11?" shtick?
Yes, gene, I am so tired of hearing about that fake 9/11 probably staged on a hollywood movie set.
guiliannnnniiii...
can someone say opportunist
grup @ 35:
Well it all comes down to the world has gone mad again and of course it's the whole of humanity that suffers and pays the price for the megalomania of the empire builders and protectors.
Grup, I watch "Law and Order" and I could never figure out what Fred Thompson's role was supposed to be. Basically his character just sits on his ass (usually with drink in hand) and pontificates about "strict construction". A useless character (and all he has to do is act naturally).
bushisaliar, I agree, Guiliani is merely an opportunist. At least Hillary was never an opportunist, which is why the American will trust her more on defense and on the economy than Guiliani.
gene, yes, Fred Thompson's acting on TV was lackluster. His having been a US Senator and Watergate Prosecuter was lackluster as well.
The Democrat candidates would be much better on TV.
Enjoy the tour folks, but remember, please don't feed the grup.
A message to all Rethuglicans who know how to read this blog. WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS EVERYONE OF YOU WHO SUPPORT THE CHIMP'S REGIME!
Why do the Republicans have a reputation for being strong on National Defense. What have they ever won.
Eisenhower stopped fighting in Korea, which led to N.Korea now having developed WMD. The real kind, Bloody real Nukes, not Shrub's Iraq Fantasy WMD crap.
Nixon/Ford got flogged out of Vietnam.
Reagan fled from Lebanon.
Bush One left Saddam in power, and gave him the green light to slaughter the Shiites that Bush had persuaded to rise up against Saddam.
Bush Two is getting the World's Greatest Military embarrased, in Iraq, by a rag tag bunch of untrained lunatics.
So please tell, what am I missing?. Why are the Republicans considered to be stronger on Defense.
....
seevee, what gave me away? When I said that Hillary was not an opportunist?
What that reptile in a third rate, Chinese-made knock off of a human suit needs is a conscience and a soul.
If he supports this "war" in Iraq, what has he done to entice his service-age son to join the fight? Reporter's need to press Rudy about Andrew.
Oh that's right, sacrificing children is for the little people.
Gouliani creeps me out. BTW, how many times has he been photographed in drag? Anybody know?
Ronald Reagan also traded Missiles for Hostages, that had been held by the Terrorists that had blown Hundreds of US Marines to smithereens in Beirut. Strong on National Defense my, arse. The Iranian Ayatollahs did business with Reagan on their terms.
...
Seamus @ 49:
They own the media. Strong on support of defense contractors is reported as strong on defense. Nevermind that the Republicans consistently vote against benefits for service members.
Seamus @ 54:
Every time Reagan's name is invoked as the second fucking coming I want to vomit. That man was an evil, lying traitor. How many kidnappings are on his hands?
Vietnam turned out OK....
once we left.
In fact we do business with them and they are a shining example of a country that can hold their own. Are we babysitters now? Isn't that what most Republicans are against, being the world's police (like the UN)?
If only we had someone, oh say, like a person who could ask probing questions, who could ask them why the double standard.
seevee @ 53:
I could care less, it was done as a lark. It is as important as the price of Edwards haircut - ie not at all.
There are issues of national importance that should be the focus of the discussions, issues on which Giuliani deserves solid criticism.
scioto, yes the Republicans run the main stream media like NBS, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, which overwhelmingly put out pro-Republican propoganda and consistently bash the Democrats. I am tired of Right Wing control of the media as well as Republican control of most of the newspapers.
scioto @ 58:
I only ask because the folks who do care are the ones who are going to decide whether or not to vote for him. I think this alone will be enough to eliminate him. Since when have substantial criticisms ever stopped the wingers from voting in dipshits? I couldn't care less how he dresses or what he does with his wee wee. Wingers care.
No matter who wins the GOP nomination, whether it's Rudy dragging his divorce/criminal partner baggage, Mitt with his end of world cultists superstition, McCain the Ignored and now, the second coming of His Holiness St. Pope Ronald Reagan, their newest actor/savior from Hollywood, Fred Thompson accompanied by his cleavage-on-parade stripper wife, no matter who it is, he'll have to follow in the footsteps of another famous republican and complete failure, GWB.
Will voters forget about the last two terms of hell-on-earth and elect another wingnut loser? It's doubtful, to say the least.
phlounder @ 61:
I thought there was NO WAY shrub could win in '04. NO WAY! As bad as the field looks for the Repuglicunts, if Mrs. Clinton is the nominee, I think they could win.
STOP CALLING IRAQIS THE ENEMY.
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
It will take the following:
Israel should,
1. Withdraw entirely from occupied territories (i.e. the West Bank, the Golan heights).
2. Dismantle all the Jewish settlements built on land confiscated from Palestinians in the West Bank and occupied Syrian land in the Golan heights.
Israel has does so in the past (see Israeli-Egyptian peace accord). It also dismantled settlements built on Egyptian land in the Sinai Peninsula.
Giuliani is clearly a mess of a human being and he cannot and should not have the keys to the USA as president. He has NO national political experience and NO foreign policy experience and NO military experience. Therefore he is underwhelmingly qualified to be Prez of the United States. All he has is fear and finger-pointing. He is a dictator waiting in the wings.
"This is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?"
Nope, they are offering up Hillary Clinton. She's everywhere. Man, this nation is screwed until somebody without corporate ties actually gets in.
As a native NYC boy, let me tell ya, in no uncertain terms:
RUDY IS AN ASSHOLE!!!!!!!
I hope he gets the GOP nomination because he'll lose big time!!!
rudy ya fooled half the people half of the time already ....
Why don't ya open a nice little Italian restaurant and SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
franklinS @ 12:
no shit????????????????????
#12 / #68 - I second that . . . . . No Shit !
what saddens me is left wing sites giving so much coverage to this garbage talk. can't we focus on our own candidates achieving things, and not the constant stream of disgusting lies?
SiteMonitor: Work with us. What's the name of the site again? The whole point is to raise awareness of the lies being perpetuated in the media.
jesus christ whod of thunk it~
his is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?
Yup.
LOL.
I thought the problem was that the terra-ists will lie low until we leave and then start a real civil war. Maybe I'm mixed up on the odd/even days. That will be the rationale tomorrow.
Isn't the enemy the Republican party?
This is not the best comment to make on a quote. Vietnam is the case study I hear for Democrats "failing" the nation by tying the hands of the President and the point i frequently hear AGAINST phased withdrawal. I'm seeing a circle being drawn, and while I think we need to get out of Iraq, we need to choose battles, especially over words, a little more judiciously.
This is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?
Yup! in a party of shitheads this is the big shit!
Right on! @ 75:
I think so, they have caused more damage to America then Al Queida could ever have hoped to.
He doesn't need a history refresher, he's needs a "final solution".
What would Guiliani know about the Vietnam War. Three deferments kept this Italian Pussy out of the Army.
Anyone thinking of voting for Rudy should remember the words of his son Andrew. "I have my mother's character."
Rudy is the same hypocrite who was jumping up and down at the RNC when the Defense of Marriage act was proposed!!! His various wives and mistresses were held out of sight!
The Ghoul is such a turd.
Heaven help us.
"A publicly-announced gradual reduction of forces is exactly what the United States did in the Vietnam War."
...And how did that war work out for us, Nicole? It takes a lot of nerve and perhaps a bit of myopia to endorse a tactic of the Vietnam War. Time and time again, anti-war advocates derisively compare the Iraq War to it. It benchmarks everything the anti-war movement finds errant and unjust in the current conflict. Yet here we have a fine example of selective historical parallel and comparative gerrymandering.
Had Rudy been old enough to serve in Vietnam he might be more familiar with that war.
Oh wait...he was old enough. So where was he during Vietnam, our heoric mayor and Saviour of New York?
seevee @ 53:
Rudy Mussolini creeps EVERYBODY out, especially those of us who endured his eight years in office. No, don't know how many times he was depicted in drag -- and in NYC, being in drag is no big deal anyway -- but I can tell you that he's a tin-pot dictator who is far worse than the current chimp in the WH. For one thing, Rudy is not completely incompetent (although he is feckless: against the urging of better minds than his own, he put the command center for NYC in one of the fallen Twin Towers. "Put it under Brooklyn," the sages said. "No!" said Rudy. It is now part of the rubble. Mike Bloomberg built a new command center. Where? Under Brooklyn.)
Left, Left, Left, Right and Left @ # 84
Re: "Selective historical parallel and comparative gerrymandering."
Unfortunately History has a habit of repeating . OK .I look at things Globally so that's the way my mind works, but some people ( even people who are not well read and I know some ) can predict, and have prtedicted , where things will end up .
Go read what Britain was doing in the mid east from 1900 to 1945 or what Britain did in the mid east in the 19th century .
Read history and you have to read at least three books on a particular event in history because both sides are lying or are totally incompetent . Politicians (and kings and queens when they were around ) do not have a good track record.
Wars are created by politicans that have failed as politicians,
Vietnam? Guiliani was way too high back then to remember much.
The only good thing about him is watching the christian conservatives hold their nose and pretend he smells like holy wafers to them.
It's obvious that giulani is a one-trick-pony. He can run on only one thing - his actions as mayor of the City of New York after the towers went down. After that, he has done nothing notable, except try to get his criminal friends cushy jobs.
If , by the odd chance he becomes president, he will carry on the cherished bush tradition of cronyism, hiring incompetents at every level.
rudy the sausage is a p-hound of clintonian proportions. why no coverage on rudy the sausage and his p-hound issues? corporate media only covers dem haircuts and pussy issues. they stay silent like good little boys and girls on the pussy issues of rudy the sausage or big cock freddy the fucker thompson.
[...] And more! They aren’t called the 100 Orders for nothing. I’m not suprised by the quote from Ambassador Schwab: Rudolph Guiliani, 9/11 fetishist and Balladeer of a Sad Candidate for President, is equally unfamiliar with how his country left Vietnam. [...]
ok, guys, NOW IS THE TIME TO STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO THESE FRAUDS!!
Not only that, but didn't Bush give Saddam a specific date to comply with our demands or we'd start bombing?
What kind of fool does something like that? Yes, a rhetorical question, but still...
Good job you did there, Bush. Give the enemy plenty of time to prepare. Let them know when you plan to start an invasion so that they can organize and make their war plans.
Bush was playing out the cowboy image to the max. Just like an outlaw in the old west telling an enemy to meet him in the middle of town at high noon for a shootout.
You mean, like this, Rudy?
Lieberman optimistic U.S. can finish mission in Iraq, draw back.
MICHAEL P. MAYKO mmayko@ctpost.com
Article Last Updated: 07/25/2006 06:39:58 PM EDT
U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman believes the U.S. will withdraw a "solid' contingent of its military forces in Iraq by the end of the year because of gains made by the Iraqi armed forces.
"There really has been progress made by the Iraqi military," Lieberman said Tuesday during a meeting with the Connecticut Post's editorial board. "Two-thirds of it could stand on its own or lead the fight with our logistical support."
The three-term U.S. senator said he believes a complete withdrawal is possible by late 2007 or early 2008.
"The sooner we are out the better," Lieberman said. "But if we leave too soon, that would make it worse for the Iraqis and us."
Link.
we gave a specific date in somalia as well, it is probably, overall, more common than not. these types of things are hard to predict when you are dealing with a subduing a militarized state which was at war with you. since there is no imagined 'state of victory' in iraq that can be achieved, we should leave. just to make idiots like giuliani happy, why not say, "Ok, starting right now, we are withdrawing. We haven't set a specific date, but we can assure you that date will be on the day that we finish leaving, having started now. Thank you." there you go, we leave, and no specific date.
"This is the best and brightest the Republicans have to offer?"
we only need to remember that republican candidates for president will follow the rove/bush model of speaking only to the base and tweaking only enough independent voters to win. when was the last time anyone heard a repub candidate speak to ALL of the American people other than when fear mongering. it seems the mayor has picked up the fear mongering platform. no new ideas here just old tactics.
But didn't we lose in Vietnam?
Rudy Giuliani or Vampire Ghouliani?
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