What kind of frequency does their broadcast use?

"The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill."
From "The First Global Revolution" by The Club of Rome, 1991, Pantheon Books

Global warming is a reality. That it's a man-made phenomenon is, to say the least, far from proven. When it's pushed by socially manipulative think tanks such as the above, whose members include Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and Mikhail Gorbechev, we would do well to think twice before reporting it as fact.

That aside, I enjoy your site!

What the flying fuck do Queen Beatrix and Mikhail Gorbechev have to do with any fucking thing?

[...] Here’s a video from Robert Greenwald (”Outfoxed”) showing you what so many Fox News viewers fervently believe - that Global Warming is a big hoax: [...]

Frank, stop and think for a minute. the earth's climate does indeed go through a constant cycle of REGULAR variation. On this we all agree. But here's the rub. Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere used to be relatively constant. Living things grow and die, and their carbon components are slowly released into the environment. Along comes the industrial revolution, and for the last 150 years, the remains of every living organism for the last 75 million years is being dug up and burned for fuel. That's dumping 75 million years of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere in the span of only 150 years. Do you think that might have an effect on the world's climate?

No wonder the White House is destroying e-mails, documents and stone walling any type of investigation.

This pandora's box extends beyond just the war. It likely extends into Administration defacto control of parts of the media of this country.

Why else would the scum of the earth like Rupert Murdoch be carrying the water for these criminals.

OMG...
When 99.9% of the climate scientists that have dedicated their lives to studying climate change put a report out with the IPCC....

Are you global warming deniers the gambling type? If so...how much do you owe? Why do you want us to join in your death wish? We won't let you take us with you...

These are the kind of folks that would've thought the Inquisition wasn't so bad...

I'm sorry...you can 'site' the incredibly small number of dissenters out there who don't think 'man made contributions are at fault'....but your skepticism...could kill you...think about that....

Better to err on the safe side...then the 99.9% probably dead side...don't you think??

What is the f**king benefit to Faux of spreading this bullsh*t, other than to fondle bush's tiny chickenhawk balls?

"Fair and Balanced" my ass!

Republicans: The 1% doctrine is a guideline for invading foreign countries and setting up endless quagmires, death and destruction.

Republicans: Global Warming Climate Change, which if true could kill hundreds of millions and flood coastal cities, must be proven 100% before we do anything.

Love that wingnut logic at work. Take action if 1% chance of WMD threat, even if no evidence exists. Do nothing on an issue 99.9% of scientists agree is happening because it isn't "proven" yet.

Ex-canuck @ 15:

What is the f**king benefit to Faux of spreading this bullsh*t, other than to fondle bush's tiny chickenhawk balls?

"Fair and Balanced" my ass!

pissed off patricia @ 14:

What is their point? Why are they fighting the idea of global warming? Is it just that anything the left says must be proven wrong by them? Jesus, they must be a miserable lot.

Because over the last 20 years, between consolidation of industry, growth in equity investments, ALL companies are connected at the hip to one another...and ALL industry is driven by energy...and geee...just what industry does the Bush cabal draw its family money from?

This really isn't hard to understand. It's about business...it's about stock market growth...its about keeping the rich rich.

If there is a fundamental change in view on global warming...if a REAL decision was made on a global level to move away from fossil fuels, what are the implications? It extends beyond the automobile and all the cottage industries that surround it. It represents a fundamental shift in the corporate balance of power. Its probably not a good analogy, but lets look at the last "new" industry. Computers and the Internet. Yes, millionaires were created by large established communication and technology companies buying up "small" independents, but in the big scheme of things...has progress suffered? I would say YES. Has the web become what it REALLY should have been. Even with its so-called "independence", the WWW has been under attack for 10 years. And those attacks have stunted its growth in the U.S.

Big business is connected at the hip to energy, and they will not allow ANYTHING that negatively impacts on stock prices. They will lie, cheat and steal to maintain the status quo. That is what the attack on global warming is about, maintaining the status quo. There's alot of money invested in the Iraq War. Lots of people are making money from it. Do you think anyone wants ANYTHING to upset that. What would happen if people started to view global warming as a REAL issue and made the connection that fossil fuels are BAD, and we should be weaning off of them. The whole Iraq War, the bases, the infrastrucutre built around policy in an area of total political and religious unrest looks like an even BIGGER clusterfuck than it already is.

Inhofe is mental. I swear he is. No one can lie the way he does with a straight face. I think the bastard believes what he says and that is one frightening thought.

It is very odd to see so many corporations now admitting that global warming is a problem and changing practices AND THEN see Rupert Murdoch agree... While Steve Milloy still has his all-access vip ticket to FOX studios to spread his bs.

This is one of those issues where the gop is having a message melt-down. The grassroots global warming haters are still going strong but they are having trouble at the top. It might be that the ownership of FOX believes global warming is a threat but know that the yahoos who tune in dont. And yahoos buy foozles so....

pissed off patricia @ 21:

Inhofe is mental. I swear he is. No one can lie the way he does with a straight face. I think the bastard believes what he says and that is one frightening thought.

Yeah! That's what makes him a good republican!

L.A. Confidential @ 20:

No Kidding. Fox attacks the environment?

Wasn't it was the Great Communicator who in 1980 campaigned saying that trees caused more pollution than cars?

And was not the great communicator a republican?

game, set and match!

Stuart @ 5:

What the flying fuck do Queen Beatrix and Mikhail Gorbechev have to do with any fucking thing?

See the environment is like this big fucking royal ballet, and....

BaScOmBe @ 27:

L.A. Confidential @ 20:

No Kidding. Fox attacks the environment?

Wasn't it was the Great Communicator who in 1980 campaigned saying that trees caused more pollution than cars?

And was not the great communicator a republican?

game, set and match!

And all them Reagan years babies coming of age now.

Surprise surprise SURPRISE. Your Screwed

Ok, there is global warming. Now how many of you want to give up
all your cars and everything that the evil,capitalistic, industrialized
United States brings to you everyday of your bitching lifes?

The message from Rupert Morlock is clear, there will be winners and loosers.
The winners(morlocks) of the world will rule, and the loosers(eloi) will taste much better with an onion stuffing and greens.

frank verismo @ 3:

Global warming is a reality. That it's a man-made phenomenon is, to say the least, far from proven. When it's pushed by socially manipulative think tanks such as the above, whose members include Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and Mikhail Gorbechev, we would do well to think twice before reporting it as fact.

That aside, I enjoy your site!

Technically, the theory of gravity, evolution and helio-centric orbits have yet to be "proven" regardless of the overwhelming evidence in support, [deleted].

We have core samples from Antarctica of environmental conditions dating back to the last 700 years and they show conclusively that the environment has changed, especially in the past 150 years.

All your bullshit suggests that while you conveniently admit to the existence of something so glaringly obvious, you refuse to take any responsibility for your own actions in helping to fix the problem. When are you conservative parasites going to grow up and realize that "personal responsibility" does NOT begin and end with personal greed.

[deleted], I really enjoyed your post.

Site Monitor: Keep it civil, please.

http://infowars.net/articles/may2007/110507Murdoch.htm

Murdoch To Push Climate Change Propaganda

So how do they get these figures. Do they have surveillance chips built into our TV sets or something these days?

NEW YORK - Nineteen million people tuned in to watch the Live Earth concerts on NBC and cable channels affiliated with the network, according to Nielsen Media Research.

The total audience of 18.995 million includes viewers who watched at least six minutes of the telecasts on NBC, CNBC, Telemundo, the Sundance Channel, Bravo, MSNBC and Universal HD.

NBC's Saturday-evening telecast — which featured three hours of highlights from the 24-hour global concert series to raise awareness of climate change — captured 2.7 million viewers. The event was also broadcast online at LiveEarth.MSN.com and on XM satellite radio.

Organizers for Live Earth, backed by former U.S. Vice President Al Gore, were hoping live broadcasts on cable television and the Internet would reach up to 2 billion people. Concerts were held in London; Sydney, Australia; Tokyo; Shanghai, China; Johannesburg, South Africa; Hamburg, Germany; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; and New Jersey and Washington.

Live Earth will send proceeds to the Alliance for Climate Protection, a nonprofit organization chaired by Gore. Figures for the money raised will be available later in the week.

Fucks news - the home of republiCONS.

Zenrage Says:When are you conservative parasites going to grow up and realize that “personal responsibility” does NOT begin and end with personal greed.

Hey Zen....they're the 'ownership society' folks...remember....
Greed is built into their genetic structure...without it, they simply don't exist...

Liberal AND Proud @ 19:

Ex-canuck @ 15:

What is the f**king benefit to Faux of spreading this bullsh*t, other than to fondle bush's tiny chickenhawk balls?

"Fair and Balanced" my ass!

pissed off patricia @ 14:

What is their point? Why are they fighting the idea of global warming? Is it just that anything the left says must be proven wrong by them? Jesus, they must be a miserable lot.

Because over the last 20 years, between consolidation of industry, growth in equity investments, ALL companies are connected at the hip to one another...and ALL industry is driven by energy...and geee...just what industry does the Bush cabal draw its family money from?

This really isn't hard to understand. It's about business...it's about stock market growth...its about keeping the rich rich.

If there is a fundamental change in view on global warming...if a REAL decision was made on a global level to move away from fossil fuels, what are the implications? It extends beyond the automobile and all the cottage industries that surround it. It represents a fundamental shift in the corporate balance of power. Its probably not a good analogy, but lets look at the last "new" industry. Computers and the Internet. Yes, millionaires were created by large established communication and technology companies buying up "small" independents, but in the big scheme of things...has progress suffered? I would say YES. Has the web become what it REALLY should have been. Even with its so-called "independence", the WWW has been under attack for 10 years. And those attacks have stunted its growth in the U.S.

Big business is connected at the hip to energy, and they will not allow ANYTHING that negatively impacts on stock prices. They will lie, cheat and steal to maintain the status quo. That is what the attack on global warming is about, maintaining the status quo. There's alot of money invested in the Iraq War. Lots of people are making money from it. Do you think anyone wants ANYTHING to upset that. What would happen if people started to view global warming as a REAL issue and made the connection that fossil fuels are BAD, and we should be weaning off of them. The whole Iraq War, the bases, the infrastrucutre built around policy in an area of total political and religious unrest looks like an even BIGGER clusterfuck than it already is.

L and P: Thanks for the analysis - a likely scenario for sure. I just wonder how long this whole cheney/bush fascist dictatorship has been in the planning stages... Does it go back to reagan and the spawning of the neocons? How does the Israel thing fit into all of this, other than Israel potentially being part of the "on-site in the middle east" watchdog of US interests in the area? Or is it related again to business interests?

You can bet when the Dems criticize this, the retort will be "Clinton did worse."

I have signed the petition.
Now for the real test. How many of you are ready to give up watching any program on FOX? If you`re serious you will do it. AND THAT INCLUDES the torture promoting show "24."
Are you really experienced?

Faux Noise is not a news network. It is a propaganda source. There is nothing newsworthy about Faux.

http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...

I decided I'd like to let Home Depot know I won't be shopping at their stores until they stop advertising on Fox News. I could not find corporate contact info on their website. Here it is if you would like to join me:

The Home Depot, Inc.:
2455 Paces Ferry Road
Atlanta, GA 30339
Phone: 770-433-8211
Fax: 770-384-2356
Customer Relations: 800-553-3199

Here are the company officers:

Chairman: Francis S. Blake
Chief Executive Officer: Francis S. Blake
Chief Operating Officer: Joseph J. DeAngelo
Chief Financial Officer: Carol B. Tome
Chief Information Officer: Robert P. DeRodes
Senior Vice President: Roger W. Adams

Let's go beyond bitching and stop this insanity.

Liberal AND Proud

Most people forgot about the wage and price freeze. Wages froze, prices went through an ice age where like glaciers, grew in size and aren't melting.

ckerst @ 33:

The sun! Fuck… of course… the SUN! [hits forehead]*******************************************
The sun has been ruled out as a source of global warming by solar astronomers. The other planets are warming also argument has also been debunked by astronomers. Just thr tiniest amount of research on sites such as SOHO or even National Geographic would tell you that. The fact that you don't know the truth shows that you don't want to know the truth.

Ummm...sarcasm

It is unbelievable to me how republicans can be so stubbornly oblivious to something this important to our future! This is a huge pet peeve of mine that the republican party as a whole has been incapable of curing, or even recognizing, their own myopia. I like to go to mypetpeeves.com- which is a fun site to get such frustration off your back.

31 Wonderer, don't look now but (unlike FUX) many of us are doing exactly that, giving up cars, carpooling, recycling, giving up industrialzed, capitalistic offerings....

"In our bitching lives" as you so charmingly phrase it.

Our maws are not gaping and ugly and loud as, say, yours and FUX. Like the rest of the world for the most part, we just do it. We're not loud aggressive assholes like you are.

senoritchy @ 61:

Chinese Head of FDA executed - how about that!!

Now THAT'S what I call the FREE MARKET!

frank verismo @ 3:

"The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill."
From "The First Global Revolution" by The Club of Rome, 1991, Pantheon Books

Global warming is a reality. That it's a man-made phenomenon is, to say the least, far from proven. When it's pushed by socially manipulative think tanks such as the above, whose members include Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and Mikhail Gorbechev, we would do well to think twice before reporting it as fact.

That aside, I enjoy your site!

I understand all what you meant. I can spot a truther very quickly. Basically, Global warming is real BUT it is not caused primarily by human activity. The NASA even says that the Suns radiance has double in the last few years, sun spot activity is increasing and is expected to peak around 2011 and 2012.

Even though most liberals believe in global warming they are putting their concern about wanting to do something good around something that they cannot control. The moons for Jupiter and Saturn's ice are melting. (Methane ice) The entire solar system is heating up. The Global warming crowd wants to keep it simple and say, it humans. The planets climate HAS NEVER been constant. The Sahara used to be full of green plants thousands of years ago.

When you should be concern with Depleted Uranium contamination that is spreading all over the world from Iraq and Afganistan, Genetically modified foods (Monsanto BT pesticide corn) THAT IS KILLING ALL THE HONEY BEES) The US military Dumping tons of nerve gas munitions of the cost of the Atlantic. Fresh water contamination. ECT ECT.... The globalist have you putting all your energy into Global Warming.
What frank verismo meant by Queen Beatrice and Gobechev was that they are involved with groups that believe in Eugenics. Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands who was a founder of Billderberg was an Nazi SS officer and was a founder finacier of the World Wild Life fund. The World wild life Fund "sounds" Like a good organization BUT HE hired mercenaries to kill ivory poachers Africa. These then contributed to more strife in Africa.

Don't call us Tin Foil hatters until YOU do the research. I come to this site becuase like me you hate the corruption. It does seem one sided and I know most are Democrats, I voted for Gore and Kerry. But you need to find out Who is really pushing for and is behind the global warming movement. You have to ask yourselve why WE are going to end up PAYING for it. We All ready pays EXXON's Corporate income tax at the pump. I believe it is smart to get energy efficient products but to charge some one a tax for how much C02 someone is producing is NEO-FEUDALISM. I produce C02 when I'm breathing, ARE THEY GOING TO CHARGE ME FOR THAT? Wake up and don't fall for the breathing tax.

Liberal AND Proud @ 64:

senoritchy @ 61:

Chinese Head of FDA executed - how about that!!

Now THAT'S what I call the FREE MARKET!

Hey, Nancy Pelosi, at least the Chinese know how to handle corruption!

honesty @ 70:

This situation is surreal! Progressives are supporting communism! Cool

It's o-tay "honesty", to have a mind as literal as a sledgehammer, to have such an absence of humor one ends with a face that sags like Murdock's. Your "imagination dipstick" is running pretty dry.

Liberal AND Proud @ 61:

And to continue the history lesson...

Jimmy Carter plans a hostage rescue mission. A mission that if successful WINS him reelection. What happens? The most sophisticated aircraft in the world collide with one another ON THE GROUND!

Ronald Reagan wins the election...and LO AND BEHOLD...the hostages are freed! YAAAY! The hostages held in the Middle East. You remember the Middle East, the place where there is OIL. Oh...and just WHO was the biggest businessman with connections all over the middle east...who just also just happened to be the head of the CIA during the ...wait for it...WAAAIT for it...the 70s...and who was oh....wait for it...waaaait for it...the VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE...do we know that guy's name...wait for it...waaaait for it...
GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH.

You are "right on". I can tell that you must have read Mark Bowden's book
"Guests of the Ayatollah" or you are otherwise well informed. Unfortunately
most of the public has no knowledge as to what factually occurred during the
1979 hostage situation in Iran; they rely instead upon misinformation and biased
MSM reports.

To all you flat-earthers/mouthbreathers out there: -- Ok, lets say for a second that global warming does not exist. (which I believe DOES exist) -- WE STILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! You cant buy wild salmon in the NW. You cant get clean fish from any rivers on the East PERIOD. The Gulf states are contaminated with all kinds of chemicals and traces can be found in every living thing there, I cant go swimming in the lakes and rivers that I used to swim in as a kid, now you run the risk of serious illness or death. So there you go. Deny global warming all you want. We still have problems that need to be sorted out.

Zio-Sheep @ 77:

To all you flat-earthers/mouthbreathers out there: -- Ok, lets say for a second that global warming does not exist. (which I believe DOES exist) -- WE STILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! You cant buy wild salmon in the NW. You cant get clean fish from any rivers on the East PERIOD. The Gulf states are contaminated with all kinds of chemicals and traces can be found in every living thing there, I cant go swimming in the lakes and rivers that I used to swim in as a kid, now you run the risk of serious illness or death. So there you go. Deny global warming all you want. We still have problems that need to be sorted out.

Yes, and as C&L reported about 30 days ago, with all of the toxic munitions dumped by
the military in the coast off of NY/Maine, there is no better example of why our waters
as sooooo poluted

Zio-Sheep @ 77:

To all you flat-earthers/mouthbreathers out there: -- Ok, lets say for a second that global warming does not exist. (which I believe DOES exist) -- WE STILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! You cant buy wild salmon in the NW. You cant get clean fish from any rivers on the East PERIOD. The Gulf states are contaminated with all kinds of chemicals and traces can be found in every living thing there, I cant go swimming in the lakes and rivers that I used to swim in as a kid, now you run the risk of serious illness or death. So there you go. Deny global warming all you want. We still have problems that need to be sorted out.

Exactly.....

We do still have problems that need to be sorted out. All of those other problems are clearly man made without A doubt. We need to focus on those and not "PURELY" on something that we have no control over. There is no dim switch on the Sun of it is increasing its radiance.

I would have clicked the box to volunteer to watch Fox "News" for other advertisers but being a Liberal Democrat(with knowledge) Faux News Channel is blocked on my tv and I refuse to unblock.

I wonder what's next from these psychotic propagandists---Elvis is not dead? JFK still alive and well in the West Wing of the White House? The Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969 was a fake? Space aliens abducting someone?

marbotty @ 86:

Even if you think Global Warming is real, energy conservation is for suckers. I mean what are the benefits?

Oh, sure, you end up paying less each month at the pump and of course your energy costs for heating/cooling/lighting your home will be lower. Sure, your air and water is cleaner, and you and your family are less likely to develop environmentally-related illnesses. Sure, it means that more jobs are created from the investment in alternative energy sources, and wildlife and national parks maintain their respective livelihood and beauty. And, sure, it means less reliance on foreign oil and removes the need to engage in an imperialistic foreign policy and unnecessary wars.

But you know what? Al Gore's physical appearance is less than the ideal and he didn't actually "invent" the internet, so who cares about all that stuff.

People like you, Marbotty, are the problem. If you think conservation accomplishes nothing, then try doing nothing, which is worse. Or better yet, just let future generations solve the problem of our conspicuous consuption paradigm.

The earth does not have enough resources to indefinitely sustain our current lifestyle. We'll need about eight Earths to do that. Either we change now or change later--but change we must.

And I think you should consider the legacy you want to leave future generations--that we were conspicuous consumers that knew what to do and did nothing or acted affirmatively to secure the future.

You make the call.

OK...well saw the vid... yep, pure lunacy... A lot of the posts here sound like some kind of James Bond cartoony back and forth.
I ain't no scientist but I know something is going wrong when the sun is now putting out more harmful rays than when I was a kid, there's something going wrong when the water we drink more and more in more places is no longer trustworthy though it was fine enough when I was a kid..

I'll buy the science on how the whole universe is warming up when someone posts the data I can read verses some link which may or may not go to some self serving site in this spitting contest... My gut tells me both things are transpiring... Yea, the universe may be warming, we all know from 7th grade science class that the sun will heat up and grow larger as it ages, but that doesn't excuse our species from pissing and shitting in our own beds and justifying it in the name of something euphemistically called 'progress' which as far as I can tell, really means from a business point of view, 'I can't be bothered, I'm too busy making money at someone elses expense'... Murdocks angle seems to be a desire to get out in front of this on a p.r. level and spin spin spin without acknowledging any responsibility or making any real change to effect the situation for the better..

Much of the comments in that clip were pure boilerplate fox noise bullshit.. I especially liked the comment CO2 is not a polutant... yea right..It will only kill you if you breath it in large enough volumn... but hey, that's OK because it's not a polutant..
sure bud sure....... It is comments like that which makes the anti warming arguments go up in a puff of 'smoke' against common sense and should be rightfully followed by a loud chorus of derisive laughter.. Bottom line is, while we all bicker and take sides the environment continues to degrade and 'mother nature' such as it may be does not care about human politics or business interests or various ideologies for OR against..

And in the end? If we do nothing but continue to argue for and against reasoned responses, even if those responses are viewed as draconian by some it won't matter when we're all dying because the air we breath is irreversibly contaminated and the water we have is undrinkable and the atmosphere is so degraded we risk Chernobly type illnesses just by walking to the friggin store for groceries... This is not something we are going to innovate our asses out of given the state of our science and technology today, which seems much more interested in figuring out how to make a cell phone a p.c. that can scramble eggs instead of coming up with a replacement for the internal combustion engine just as one example...

No this is something which will require mankind to cut back on some fundamental things, in order to provide mother nature with a sort of breather, a timeout on the industrial revolution if you will... Even if the Rockefellers, and the Rothchilds and the Mudocks of the world have to rejigger their finances a bit... There is no way around this real reality.. The alternative? Well it is to keep denying our culpability in this mess and blame the universe or the sun right up to the time we are extinct.. Digest that, extinction of our species and possibly all life is what is hanging in the balance here while so-called experts bicker over small details... Perhaps that is another definition for insanity. Denial with the truth so in your face even a caveman would understand the dangers...

So ya got to ask yourself.. Is all this modern living, all these convieniences which I admit I take advantage of just like any other person in this 21st century is it really worth it when what it really means is down the road we become extinct, probably in our grandchildrens time??? Well, is it??? If you think this is important then WE ALL have a lot of work to do and one of the first things we have to do is stop killing each other over bullshit, because it's going to take all of us, christians, muslims, athiests,
communinst, capitalists, the whole enchilada of mankind pulling together to get over this clearly mankind influenced if not made coming catastrophe...That's all I got to say on it...JD

Ooh-oh. Screwed up the quote above, "now please make your point" was honesty's.
We all get cooked and rained on however thick & solid our interpretations. Politics have little to do with reality.

Reich-wingers would only care about Global Warming if Global Warming was a clump of in utero cells or the American Flag.

FACTS: Ruppert Murdock is originally from Australia. Australia is in such a severe drought that the farmers are no allowed to water their fields. Only livestock can have the extra water. Australians are seriously concerned about the lack of rain in their country.

The good news is that this should boost the price of Australian Shiraz which would be have a temporary positive impact on their economy. The downside is that eventually, the grapes vines will wither and die. Oh well, so much for global warming.

I think fox and this vile piece of shit are responsible for thousand of dead Americans.

They featured Fox's Steve Milloy in the clip. He ran a "think tank" out of his home where Exxon (or one of the big oil guys) sent checks. I believe they recently cut off his funding. He also writes the "Junk Science" column on foxnews.com. Search for it and youll see a particular obsession with attacking global warming...while the checks are rolling in.

bmw 528 @ 89:

marbotty @ 86:

Even if you think Global Warming is real, energy conservation is for suckers. I mean what are the benefits?

Oh, sure, you end up paying less each month at the pump and of course your energy costs for heating/cooling/lighting your home will be lower. Sure, your air and water is cleaner, and you and your family are less likely to develop environmentally-related illnesses. Sure, it means that more jobs are created from the investment in alternative energy sources, and wildlife and national parks maintain their respective livelihood and beauty. And, sure, it means less reliance on foreign oil and removes the need to engage in an imperialistic foreign policy and unnecessary wars.

But you know what? Al Gore's physical appearance is less than the ideal and he didn't actually "invent" the internet, so who cares about all that stuff.

People like you, Marbotty, are the problem. If you think conservation accomplishes nothing, then try doing nothing, which is worse. Or better yet, just let future generations solve the problem of our conspicuous consuption paradigm.

The earth does not have enough resources to indefinitely sustain our current lifestyle. We'll need about eight Earths to do that. Either we change now or change later--but change we must.

And I think you should consider the legacy you want to leave future generations--that we were conspicuous consumers that knew what to do and did nothing or acted affirmatively to secure the future.

You make the call.

Wow, I guess that's an unfortunate testament to the sorry state of political discourse in our country when I can make what I thought was the most ridiculous argument against conservation (read it again: I made about 10 points in favor of conservation, and only one against, which is that Gore was a fat embellisher) and it can actually pass as an actual argument from a right-wing flat-earther.

I guess it also means I'll never get that job on Colbert if I do satire so poorly.

Terrible thing for me to say, I suppose, the human race is a failed experiment. Nature culls all excess.
In the meantime, lots of us are doing what we must and coloring outside the lines to be as quietly self-sufficient as possible shoving off ties to congloms. Communities and states are beginning to take things into their own hands, and we could try thinking and doing the manageable and obvious for ourselves.

No Mr. Blade, I'm no more or less stupid about any of it than you or anyone else is. However I'll cede the point on CO2. If I got my monoxides and my dioxides mixed up, my bad.... Doesn't really change the larger issue though....Does it.. If we aren't the primary culprits in this, we are nevertheless contributing to the problem in a major way now due to the path our various profit motivated technologies has taken. The industrial revolution is a large factor in this. You can dwell on my faux pas all you want mister, but there is a macro picture here as well, which oddly enough, you are addressing in some of your other posts..

Rather than turn this thread into some kind of flame war given the heavy nature of the subject, let me just say you and some others, the poster Honesty comes to mind, have made some interesting posts and valid points in my opinion. I still believe it is a combination of changes ongoing in the universe and a series of developments by mankind over the last 150 to 200 years which are combining to bring about this growing crisis.

Foscusing this debate on ideologies of communism verses capitalism, pro and con, and worries that someone thinks they might have to pay twice in some kind of forced taxation to stop this, misses the point.. That is, fighting about it in this way and doing nothing as a consequence means that circumstances will overtake all of us and not to damned far down the line... And I still say its going to take all of us across the planet addressing this in a serious non-ideological manner in order to address it properly.. But so far, we can't even stop killing each other over who we pray to or sleep with or the goddamned color of our skins, let alone try to frame the issues properly.. And that fox vid is a pretty good example of the back and forth I am talking about. Otherwise got no real argument with much of what you have to say about it from a science point of view.............JD

106 Scruzman:

When it comes to the environment methinks it behooves us well to remember, "God,

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

the courage to change the things I can,

and the wisdom to know the difference."
(The Serenity Prayer is generally thought to have been written by Reinhold Niebuhr).

Praise Bob!

Common sense would seem to dictate that the sun cool = earth cool theory is not the whole story. It is disingenuous to say the people have no impact on the environment and that damage to the earth doesn't damage the environment. Ever been to San Francisco on a hot summer day? That big grey cloud overhead isn't exaclty fresh air.

Whether or not "global warming" as a tagline turns out to be what some of you think (i.e. some method of control) I, for one, will still reduce, reuse and recycle because it is what I believe in. I do believe it makes some difference.

honesty @ 104:
The view that the Sun is the sole cause of climate change doesn't stand up too well against this paper's http://www.mps.mpg.de/homes/natalie/PAPERS/warming.pdf conclusion:

"We have shown that even in the extreme case that solar variability caused all the global climate change prior to 1970, it cannot have been responsible for more than 50% of the strong global temperature rise since 1970."

scruzman @ 120:

#113: "God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Thank you. I will recycle my old tires and I will not try to cool the sun.

#115: I didn't say humans don't have an impact, what is it up to now, about 1/100th of 1%? Also, I live in San Francisco and that big grey cloud above is FOG! What's your point?

It's called SMOG dude, not FOG. Source your ridiculous stat, too, while you're at it.

Its been a while since I've posted on the website, and sadly the quality of discussion continues to decline.

I can't quite understand why people become so angry over a problem that isn't actually a problem right now. AGW theory is all about what COULD happen in the future, no city is drowning right now. Extreme weather has always been a reality and no one can convincingly say that the extreme weather of today is more extreme than the past. What is true is that extreme weather has recently been reported on in the context of Global Warming. This is new wrinkle and it introduces a powerful bias as to how we view our climate.

The basic error of AGW is that we're trying to extrapolate our climate experience of the past 50-200 years onto a climate history of more than 4 billion years. This is the blink of an eye in the lifetime of the earth. We do know certain things about the distant past - the earth's climate fluctuated wildly between widespread tropical weather and ice ages. The key question is how fast can the earth's mean global temperature move over time (for natural reasons). In the 20th century, the mean temperature moved 1 degree F. Was this faster than say 15,200 BC to 15,100? There is no possible way to know this, ice core samples aside. So why are people saying that the movement in temperature last century is conclusively caused by man? Compared to what? Anyone with rudimentary statistical knowledge can see the problem.

There is a certain desperation in the attempt to prove that our warming is caused by man-made CO2. When data contradicts the AGW theory, caveats are given to suspicious degree of certainty. For example, the 1940-1975 period of cooling is explained by human industrial emissions of particles like sulphur. But in order to state this, you would first have to know what the climate would have been without emissions. As an added bonus - man was also the cause of the cooling! Another poster mentioned the Sun. Scientist who support AGW say that the Sun is a minority contributor to warming - 10 -30% - how do they know this? They don't. They are guessing. You can model to whatever you please. The climate is chaos and you can manipulate the data to fit your desired outcome.

At the heart of global warming theory is an irresistible narrative - man's excesses and ignorance are causing a dramatic change in our climate. It is true after all that all through time civilizations have been destroying their environments (you can read "Downfall" for an excellent documentation of this). AGW however is not about what is happening in ecology but what is happening in the Atmosphere. Here the scale of input variables are on a force way beyond what man could possibly do (save perhaps an all-out nuclear winter). Read up a bit on man's pathetic attempt to halt a hurricane, or cloud seeding to get an idea of how climate forces are still way beyond our influence.

I love this website, but all the knee-jerk hating of people who question man-made global warming is becoming more annoying and disconcerting.

Fanon @ 121:

scruzman @ 120:

#113: "God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Thank you. I will recycle my old tires and I will not try to cool the sun.

#115: I didn't say humans don't have an impact, what is it up to now, about 1/100th of 1%? Also, I live in San Francisco and that big grey cloud above is FOG! What's your point?

It's called SMOG dude, not FOG. Source your ridiculous stat, too, while you're at it.

I saw something like that on Yahoo news, not the best source. Whoever they quoted said mankind is responsible for about 2/3 the visible smog (a narrow argument.) 1/3 was natural. But even if we reversed that equation, if that one third would overflow an already filled cup, shouldn't we stop pouring?

ysbad@125

That's really my only point.

"If you guys want to play terraformer GREAT!!! Start out with RATIONING so that Al Gore and I both get the same amount of fuel during the same period of time!!! Anything else is PUNISHMENT!! Like I said we should ration but in my opinion that is because we are past peak everything"

Oh, dear.

Stimey, ever notice the trollers have this compulsion to come here and suck the energy dry, whilst CL-ers and others like-minded would rather kiss a snake than visit their beloved ragefests a la FOCKS.

honesty @ 130:

Thing Fish Says:

�We have shown that even in the extreme case that solar variability caused all the global climate change prior to 1970, it cannot have been responsible for more than 50% of the strong global temperature rise since 1970.�

Mmm. So now it climbed to 50%. That is interesting since not so long ago the sun only received a 10% blame penalty. You do realize then that the the Sun is now a 50% factor in global warming even though it could be a 100% factor given that the Sun gives us 100% or our ENERGY don't you?

Noting that the Sun gives us 100% of our ENERGY you need to add it has been doing so for billions of years. And much of that ENERGY became stored as FOSSIL FUEL which we humans are now converting back into ENERGY at an historically unprecedented rate in only the last thousand years.

Its interesting that you can't read a scientific paper that clearly states the Sun can't be blamed for any more than 50%, claim it was previously 10% (where did that factoid come from?), and then ignore it completely by trying to say the Sun is responsible for 100%.

And also please can the logical fallacy that because government's aren't rationing then climate change can't be human based. Makes you sound like some sort of rabid John Bircher who sees anything you don't want to face as a communist plot.

Thing Fish Says:

Its interesting that you can’t read a scientific paper that clearly states the Sun can’t be blamed for any more than 50%, claim it was previously 10% (where did that factoid come from?), and then ignore it completely by trying to say the Sun is responsible for 100%.

Proving a variable's causality to an outcome is hard enough, quantifying it to an exact percentage is exponentially harder. The fact that any %'s are thrown around at this stage of understanding is laughable. Nevertheless, common sense dictates that the Sun is the logical place to start for climate study and it should be the focus of our research, but it is not. The vast majority of climate study is focused on how CO2 is influencing the climate. It is not surprising therefore that CO2 has a super-sized influence on our thinking.

BTW, I do not buy into any of these Orwelian Conspricay theories of global control when it comes to AGW. Those theories are more ridiculous than the ones of NYC sumerged in water. What I do believe is that man is seduced by certain patterns of thought - specifically in this case, grandiosity of its influence upon the world.

fannon @ 138 sez: "...Never said where I lived..." Well you don't live in San Francisco. It's a myth in San Francisco. I know it's hard for some to follow, but you were replying to my thread wherein I was speaking about San Francisco, where I live and there is no smog, and, which was a reply to an innane post that spoke of the smog clouds above SF. Is the fog clearing for you now? I hope so.

scruzman Says:

Don't you know all those scientist are bought and paid for by Exxon? When they believed in AGW, their motives were pristine, but alas they went for the corporate money and now their opinions should be completely discounted. The debate is over my friend.

Real scientists, the ones who believe in global warming, are immune to such influences such as fame and advancing their own careers. The billions of dollars shloshing around to promote AGW only advance the just cause.

Smog is a myth ha! that's a good one.

pissed off patricia @ 21:

Inhofe is mental. I swear he is. No one can lie the way he does with a straight face. I think the bastard believes what he says and that is one frightening thought.

You should meet my old man.

scruzman @ 142:

ThingFish @ 136 sez: "Its interesting that you can’t read a scientific paper that clearly states the Sun can’t be blamed for any more than 50%, claim it was previously 10% (where did that factoid come from?), and then ignore it completely by trying to say the Sun is responsible for 100%."

FYI: anybody can publish a 'scientific paper'. a name on the paper might help your cause; for example:

Save us some time and just post the link to the Free Republic article you are copying and pasting:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1859029/posts

Just because someone else has cherry-picked some idiot scientists with impressive sounding titles, perhaps taking their quotes out of context, doesn't mean there is any meaningful scientific disagreement with the consensus opinion that anthropogenic carbon dioxide is causing global warming through the greenhouse effect.

scruzman @ 150:

Hey unfrozencaveman #144: Please provide proof of Exxon funding these guys. All scientists I quoted didn't come into money; they came to their senses. However, I do not discount the money angle. Think of the bucks that are all ready flowing into universities to study solutions for this uncontrollable event.

Proof: http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/02/news/companies/exxon_science/index.htm

Why do you figure this is an uncontrollable event? Carbon sequestration can work, I hope.

Ol Billy @ 152. I wasn't linking the whole article, but thanks for the link anyway. I chose it because people actually signed their names to their research. There is no cherry picking here, merely a recitation of names of those who disagree with the hordes. There is a consensus of HumanCaused GW scientists and a consensus of non-HCGW. Which consensus do you believe?

Crazylove;

If I'm the Jack you were agreeing with, thanks for the comment and backup... This thread seems to be attracting a large number of global warming deniers or at the very least skeptics and I think the point of the thread has veered wildly off onto several different tangents... Kinda growing tiresome given the stakes...
actually on the line here....regards; JD

Signed.

Jack Damage @ 159:

Kinda growing tiresome given the stakes...
actually on the line here....regards; JD

No doubt. Unless you're counting on getting raptured off to your 72 virgins, I guess...

162 Old Billy Says:

No doubt. Unless you’re counting on getting raptured off to your 72 virgins, I guess…

The irony of course is that AGW histerics have the same doomsday, apocolyptical vision of the future as do religious fanatics. The only difference is the culprit is carbon dioxide instead of a wrathful god. Rational thinking of course is absent in both cases.

Today is my first stop at this site. I'm amazed at the crudeness of the language and the lack of serious thought showing. Is everyone an under 20 high school dropout?