Arthur Silber looks forward and finds horror in our path.
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:)
The United States; right behind religion when it comes to annihilating unbelievers.
Arthur Silber is a little hyperbolic. He really lays into the democrats with the whole "democrats = republicans" crap. How did that work out in 2000? I voted for Nader, but even I know that, given the evidence, democrats do not equal republicans.
This is war should be our national shame, but just because you don't 100% agree with Silber doesn't make you part of the problem.
The Jeff Gannon interview!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=81b_1184093228
Seems to me he casts blame on everyone but himself. I will not take 100% responsibility for everything that this administration has done. I just will not. I do not think all people are equally bad. I agree with much of what he says about how fu*king awful this war has been, but short of breaking a law, there isn't anything I can personally do to stop george bush today, yesterday or tomorrow. What has Mr Silber done to stop the madness? Whatever it was, his effort didn't work either.
Shoot, now I'm in a crabby mood. Sorry, didn't mean to be.
How can the Arab world forgive America this war? I just don't see it happening.
Old Billy @ 3:
So how much light is there between Dems and Rs on war with Iran? I don't know of any time that Arthur has said Democrats=Republicans on all issues, but in this regard, our power elite seems securely unified.
I would consider it a kindness if you could convince me I am wrong. I am miserable about this.
"So I repeat: when we attack Iran, and I now consider that a foregone conclusion with only the timing to be determined, DON'T SAY A SINGLE GODDAMNED WORD."
Should this happen will he allow himself to "say a single goddamned word"?
He casts a wide net.
Old Billy @ 3:
I disagree that democrats = republicans.
But I see strong parallels between the party machines and personalities and the belief systems of the party's faithful.
A successful political party must insure its own survival as its first goal. If it doesn't survive, it loses power and fades away. But ideally a party will only do what it needs to do to fulfill this duty, then next fulfill its mission.
I believe that both major parties are completely fixated on preserving their party's power and no other issue comes close. They both put party miles above the US Constitution and the interests of their constituents. They can do so because the true believers will follow them no matter what they do.
When you argue about democrats vs republicans, then you're no longer talking about political party machines, but people. And there you find both differences and common ground.
The Democratic Party will not take tangible action against Bush or the war for fear that if they fail, they will be perceived as weak. Its this very cowardice in the face of adversity that keeps me believing that their message is one of hypocrisy.
I trust neither party machine. But there are people that I believe in.
pissed off patricia @ 5:
Patricia, you probably don't know this, but Arthur is in very poor health and literally living from month to month. He was out front very early on this issue, and is still one of very few voices in this country warning about the inexorable slide to war.
He has tried very hard to get some coordinated response to this, and has been met with silence. I think he has every right to a peremptory tone, but I certainly don't - nor do I think Arthur does - expect you to agree.
His point, as I read it, is "don't come crying to me when the bombs start falling on Tehran." And I think there's validity in that.
We are the richest nation in the world and yet we want to cut social security, medicaid, medicare, education and aid to dependant children. It will get worse. We will start to imprison people who don't believe in the Republican party. Oh what a party of compassion.
AS a non-american, i just hope you guys can tie the administration down until Bush leaves office. If you give him enough trouble we might just be spared another war.
While the differences between Washington and Tehran are threatening and growing, there are eerie similarities between presidents Bush and Ahmadinejad and their respective fundamentalist followers. For each, the strikingly analogous views regarding religious prophecy, second comings and the end of times may be pushing the United States and Iran inexorably towards war.
For the disturbing comparison, see:
"Iran, Bush and the Second Coming."
The frustration I feel over the arrogance, greed and ignorance that has brought such grief and misery to so many on this planet by those in power can be overwhelming. It is so obvious that the course has been set to continue this debacle in Iraq into Iran. The bogus military press releases that attempt to link the insurgent attacks with Iranian sponsored al-Qaeda attacks--Without a single scintilla of evidence to back it up. Oh, I forgot, their
guts tell them it's so. I saw this in the 60s--The marginalizing of the indigenous population--The "gooks", etc. Now "ragheads". It never ends. The waste--he blood. All the screaming and yelling at Bush just falls on a deaf ear. It's so easy to just feel helpless to change anything for the good.
However, two quotes I've recently recalled have given me an inspiration--Burke's "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing", and Kershaw's "The road to Auschwitz may have been built by hate, it was also "paved with indifference".
Well, I know it was a different time, but I truly believe it was the millions of us who were serious-as-a-heart-attack marching and descending on D.C. that FINALLY got the troops home.
What if everyone that cared set a date, say January 1st, 2008 to take to the streets of D.C., (ala "V for Vendetta"). Millions packing the streets, PEACEFULLY, shutting the capitol down? It's just a thought I had--Of course, along with that would be a movement to NEVER RE-ELECT ANYONE. That would effect REAL term limits. We all know that once those greedy bastards get elected, their primary concern is getting re-elected.
If we don't do something, we're doomed. (The "Children of Men" is set only twenty years in the future. Has a prophetic ring to me.) And btw, if anyone whose not an old guy like me wants to see a couple of decades old documentaries that are so relevant today, check out "Winter Soldiers" and "In the Year of the Pig".
The problem is, Silber is basically quite correct in his appraisal of the morality of our situation. Unfortunately that's a moral judgment; it's not a call for practical action. The actions he approves of are no more likely to happen than Bush experiencing a lightning conversion, appealing for forgiveness, resigning, and venturing forth into the desert wearing sackcloth and ashes.
The question is, then, what do we do? The slime is on us. What do we do now, given that the morally clean course of action is as good as closed off to us?
I hadn't been planning to complain to Arthur, much as I revere his moral acuity.
But they're not Americans, so why should we care, right?
I remember hearing about a pilot commenting on the loss of friendly's:
Personally I can't see the difference between killing Iraqi's, the "enemy", or anyone for that matter. It is obvious that he has chosen to no longer think of these people as human, or at least as lesser individuals. Perhaps this is a defense mechanism that all people in the military must make, but I have never understood it, and I have never been to war. However, as much as this disturbs me, I am willing to accept it from someone fighting with his or her life. They are after all, ordered to perform this job, and how they choose to cope isn't their fault. This is probably natural, even if I do not think I am capable, but who knows.
With that said, how is it that policy makers others in command aren't able to see these as just lives? They aren't exactly being ordered themselves or at grave risk, other than perhaps risks of getting reelected or angering their political party. It was then that I realized that they probably aren't making this distinction. They aren't concerned about who dies, whether it is Iraqis or our military. They are only concerned about the public perception of their decision and that impact on their political life. Since Americans and the media are pretty much only concerned about US troops, and a large portion is taught (by the media) to treat Muslims as less-than-human, they feel they can get away with as many deaths as possible. This ignorance, which is partially the fault of the public, is what ultimately allows this killing to continue. As for US troops, there is a reason why they don't want reporters to film the bodies coming off the boats. It restricts them from sacrificing more soldiers' lives.
Beyond that, we are often not taught about killings in our history, only from the perspective of the loss of our soldiers. Columbus, who likely killed at least several hundreds of thousands, and was comparable to Hitler in my opinion, is even given his own holiday. Children are taught to only value American lives, and as a result positioned against the enemy as if it is an opposing sports team. Our difference in ideologies is the motivation, and this motivation is used to continue waging war with unfettered support of an often numbed populace. Speaking out against these things is considered close to treason by much of the right and even left wings. Furthermore, we are manipulated into believing exaggerated conditions, such as the life of Cubans under Castro, while ignoring interests that are favorable to US policy, even if these states sponsor terrorism (Pakistan).
The current administration is basically founded upon this system, and almost all aspects of its policy making take advantage of this with control of nearly all aspects of the media. All of us know about the absurdity of Fox News, which is almost state run, but even CNN will jockey for position when the War bell is ringing. They largely ignored the completely obvious lack of WMD's in Iraq before invasion and when watching their network before the attack, you would almost have believed that the war was already on. I remember them pulling a story about the findings in Niger the week before the invasion (I am sure by accident). This is how they make money. There is no liberal media, save the internet.
We are in the 11th hour of a complete loss of control, and a police state. That is why I am completely convinced that we must stage an organized revolution immediately. It can't be protesting in permitted locations or merely holding signs at government locations. They know how to subvert this, Vietnam gave them practice, and their control over the media gives them the means. It has to be different and it has to wake the public up. I am firmly convinced that following the rules or laws is nowhere near the solution and is absolutely destined for failure. Like chess or the Art of War, you cannot give them the ability to prepare a defense, they must be caught off guard. It is only the internet that they no longer have control of, and unconventional means are the solution to getting control back. I think the Freewayblogger has part of the solution, but even that is not enough. Look at the Boston Tea Party for an example of what works.
I am sure I am not the only one who believes this way. We must organize and act, and I am prepared to make sacrifices at the cost of my own freedom or reputation. The current system is failing and must be stopped. Now is our time.
AmIDreaming @ 15:
pissed off patricia @ 1:
I know you wanted to avoid posting Frist, but juxtaposed with the title of this thread, it's so out of place.
"Millions Dead!" then, :)
Heh.
EnricFermi Says:"We are in the 11th hour of a complete loss of control, and a police state. That is why I am completely convinced that we must stage an organized revolution immediately. It can’t be protesting in permitted locations or merely holding signs at government locations." " I am sure I am not the only one who believes this way. We must organize and act, and I am prepared to make sacrifices at the cost of my own freedom or reputation. The current system is failing and must be stopped."
Although I commend your sentiments and agree. I think that even the internet is not really free. It would be incredibly difficult and expensive to pull this off. But I'm game, just let me know when and where.
[Deleted. Incoherent rambling-Sitemonitor]
Everyone should watch 'Children of Men'. Very disturbing movie. We, the people who dissent, are the terrorists. I empathize with their hopelessness and rage. Unless Congress impeaches and REMOVES FROM OFFICE Bush, Cheney, and Gonzo, then they, or any one of us, even en masse, cannot stop these psychotic criminals. They want the entire world to burn. China would love to lose a few million. They're next, after these egomaniacs have completely destroyed the Middle East. DELIVER US FROM EVIL!
When the youth in this country get off their pampered little asses and get out of the fuking mall and off their skatefukingboards and rise up in the colleges in protest....
Who am I fuking kidding???
BTW, Arthur Silber is perfectly right in his indignation. Some of us are tired of watching the youth in this country (ones that aren't serving or protesting BTW so don't give me shit) suck this country dry while their countrymen and women are diying in another bullshit war the elites started, just like fuking Viet Nam....
Well, like we used to say in OUR war..... FUCK IT! ....
Just like fuking Viet Nam? Well, the war is!!!
The analysis that Silber presents would seem to indicate that a wider war is inevitable at some point because it is what the elites desire. You could extrapolate from his analogies that rise of Hitler after WWI only accelerated the inevitable attempt of the German social and corporate elites to assert control over Europe and as far as their military power would take them in the rest of the world. His assertion that foreign policy is not so much a product of the party in power as the will of the ruling elites, leads to the conclusion that wider war for the United States is not so much a matter of "if" as it is "when."
Elections have little or no meaning. Today's amendment warning Iran passed 97 to 0 in the Senate. Levin loves Lieberman. The only difference between the parties is who controls the timing. Isn't what Silber is suggesting delaying until the Iranians have come closer to developing their own bomb? If we wait until they do, won't that make tactical nuclear weapons seem justified? Then we're right back to the arguments for preemptive war only the next time it will be the democrats that are in favor of it.
I believe that the only thing that will put things on hold is the fear of loss of power by the elites. The near impeachment of Nixon and the fear of loss of control of the population by the elites is what really lead to the end of our adventure in Vietnam. When the herds of sheep get out of control, the herders will call home the dogs of war.
"The American people know what they want, and they deserve to get it good and hard."
Yepmom-Imaliberal @ 19:
First of all, there is no need to spend much money, if at all, as long as creative means are used.
As for freedom, this is why I suggest learning about PGP encryption and other forms for making it a pain in the ass for the NSA to monitor your messages. Although they have limited the strength of PGP/PKI, and even attempted to eliminate the download from some countries, you can make it a pain in the ass for them to intercept your messages. Supercomputer time is not only costly, but it also done in priority and there is a significant delay before they can read the message. In order to effectively prevent this interception, you just send a lot of nonsensical or confusing messages that will waste their time, and regularly, never ceasing. You'll also need to change the key from time to time. One (not me of course), can regularly mess with them to prevent the illegal spying on Americans, in a less than conventional way. This can also be done programmatically, and randomness is key. Remember those MIT students that wrote a thesis generator? It doesn't matter if they can read your every word. Use it to your advantage.
Although I am certainly not advocating violence, I feel strongly for a revolution, and I know that I am not alone nor unique in any way here. I am looking for a peaceful solution, and blogging incessantly all over the net is the easiest method, annoying signs second, and other means as only a last resort. Impeachment is what we need here desperately as a first step. You can call into talk shows such as those on CSPAN, call representatives, and make life hell until it happens. This group must lose power, and then political action must be taken to never let it happen again. Get others on your side, doing the same thing as you. Freedom of speech is still alive on the internet, even if it is monitored and curtailed in some instances like we have all read here. Bush and Cheney must not only be impeached for our sake, but to send a message, that we the people, don't agree with their actions. That alone could prevent a terrorist attack, if not at least reduce the probability or severity.
If something severe ever does happen, such as a major attack and the loss of rights under a police state, there are so many intelligent people in this country who feel like like we do, that they will regain control. Evil, in whatever sense you believe in it, will lose out to good in most cases, because of the good of man. The huge military budget has actually become the greatest disadvantage this country has. When weapons cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions and even billions, the system will break down under its own weight. For example, a UAV costs extreme amounts of money, but a toy could do the same thing. In judo and other martial arts, you use the opponents momentum and mass to your own advantage. The same could be for said the NSA, CIA, and military. They aren't nearly as bright as advertised.
Just never give up and never believe that you have no power. It is intimidation and fear that lets them continue pushing us around. Stand up, make a statement, and tell all of those around you how you feel. Don't give a crap who it upsets. They need to be upset. Be your own leader.
Arthur speaks the raw, unvarnished truth about the lie of American exceptionalism, and what belief in that lie has made possible. His facts and analysis are not "hyperbolic". What he writes is rigorously documented and referenced, and I defy any reader to catch him out on any historical fact.
His message may be dauntingly depressing, but he is running around like Cassandra, screaming at the top of his lungs - and like Cassandra, he is too much ignored and dismissed.
Valentinian @ 17:
The following sentence of my comment alleges that his call to action is indeed a call, but not to any practical action. To reiterate my point: what he wants isn't going to happen. We know we're bloodstained. What do we do now? Give up and do nothing?
AmIDreaming @ 27:
I guess I don't know what you mean by "practical." Further, I am not sure why you feel it is Arthur's responsibility to come up with a second recommendation for what to do, given that his first fell on deaf ears.
My reading was that the problem Arthur was addressing was that those against the war have "give[n]" up and do[ne] nothing."
Those who defend the Demos, his facts speak for themselves. A 97-0 vote giving the Chimp Fiat for another racist war of aggression based entirely on lies. . .just as the previous war of aggression based entirely on lies turns utterly to 1000% failure. Not 1 Demo will stand up and say the Chimp has no clothes & it's flinging more feces.
The Republic's dead. Yes, 11th hour and soon the death camps for "terrorists" will likely be here soon. The ruling class will protect themselves, so the rest of us had better start thinking on similar lines. I dunno if it'll be a race war, as predicted above, but tho' I'm white, I'd sure never be on the side of our ruling class & their enablers.
Yeah, well, what about the hundreds of thousands of excessive deaths that occurred by REFUGEES outside of Iraq??? The Lancet Study did not account for those. With 4.5 Million refugees you can damn well bet that there are at least 300,000 deaths due to relocation and inadequate living standards that would not have occured otherwise.
You know that the casualties number thing has long pissed me of that somewhere in the Pentagon they have the exact number as accurate as is humanly possible or they don't know what they are doing literally. That number is primary intelligence and it insults mine for the to say they don't have it.
I wouldn't say Democrat=Republican I would put it more like flip side of the same coin. Plus Democrats can be Liebermans and be moles. Anybody can be a Democrat but you have to kill a kid to be a Republican. Democrats such as Hellery have to be watched carefully. Board member for Walmart and Iraq war vote...It isn't that she didn't hear from me but I'm not one of her nazi friends. I tried to Warn her like she shouldn't have known herself. If dude can't find oil in Texas shouldn't be running a war.
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