al-Maliki says US Troops can leave any time they want
al-Maliki made Bush and Petraeus look like ghouls during his press conference. I'd say it's time pull out our forces and fast.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki shrugged off U.S. doubts of his government's military and political progress on Saturday, saying Iraqi forces are capable and American troops can leave "any time they want."
One of his top aides, meanwhile, accused the United States of embarrassing the Iraqi government by violating human rights and treating his country like an "experiment in a U.S. lab."
And if that isn't bad enough---they attack the newly sainted Petreaus:
In addition, he said that al-Maliki has problems with the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, who he said works along a "purely American vision."
"There are disagreements that the strategy that Petraeus is following might succeed in confronting al-Qaida in the early period but it will leave Iraq an armed nation, an armed society and militias," al-Suneid said.
And yet we'll hear idle chatter from Lugar about the need to change policy in Iraq. Nothing so drastic as actually doing something...There is only one policy change worth discussing. A time-table for withdrawal.
Great, let's get packing. We don't need to be where we are not wanted.
frist!
Yeah, yeah ,yeah and Bush said that if the Iraqis want us gone we wouldn't let the doorknob hit us on the way out...like two years ago. Like this means anything to these gits.
I just told that to 'Bob Roberts' earlier today. Maybe he'll believe this guy.
me-oww!
I really can't wait to see the Bush apologists try to tell us that the government we established, the one Bush is always praising, can't be listened to on this subject.
O goodness, what about that US Troops cam? Is its footage on Youtube? (Sorry John, I'm acting like POS.)
We they stand up we will ... uh...
The book is almost finished. Your legs are getting better. Soon you'll be able to walk. You'll be wanting to leave.
(too obscure?)
joe! @ 7:
Don't Joe, if you think about it too hard, you'll never be able to uncross your eyes.
The book is almost finished. Your legs are getting better. Soon you’ll be able to walk. You’ll be wanting to leave.
(too obscure?)
I never saw it but was it "Misery?"
Perfect, Thing Fish
me-oww!
It really does sound like they are ready to stand up. We should be packing our bags.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
well ,well, the PM has said the US Army and Marines are excused. Why wait you guys should start packing
He couldn't have put it any more clear or succinctly than that.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
The main thing to keep in mind is once the um..."natural resources" have been privatized and "properly managed" the "war" will eventually converge at some kind of sad resolution:an eventuality for which the sad sack hapless Democrats will be entirely blamed.
here is only one policy change worth discussing.
impeachment.
Hey wait a minute buddy! STFU! . . . GWB
"The Bush administration designed the 104-acre compound - set to open in September in what today is a war zone - to be an ultra-secure enclave. Yet it also hoped that downtown Baghdad would cease being a battleground when diplomats moved in."
"The embassy is one of the few major projects the administration has undertaken in Iraq that is on schedule and within budget."
"The new US Embassy in Baghdad will be the world's largest and most expensive foreign mission"
"Construction of the U.S. embassy in Iraq, set to open in September, is projected to cost $592 million, with a staff of 1,000 people and operating costs totaling $1.2 billion a year. It will be a 104-acre complex, which is the size of approximately 80 football fields."
Thats, all very nice Mr. Malarkey. But it's much more important to the bush crime family,
to knock off the big gas station at the corner Iran and Saudi Arabia . . .
[It's a typo. Knock it off-Sitemonitor]
Does anyone know what the War Czar is doing? I have not read anything about what he is doing. Maybe he should contact Malicki and find out the real story in Iraq. The troops have accomplished the "missions" as outlined by Bush (except for final control of Iraq's oil by US oil companies). Time to bring them home.
What time-table is needed. The Prime Minister of Iraq said that there is no reason for the US Forces to stay in Iraq. That is all we needed to hear. Bush said that when the Iraqis stood up, we would leave. OK. They just stood up. Bring the Troops home now. Contact all your Senators and Congress Reps, and tell them to stop the funding now, since the Government Iraq said that we are not needed in their country.
....
Hey, is this the long-awaited "As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down." moment we've been waiting for for 4 1/2 years?
Calling Mr. President, you should probably start bringing our boys and girls home now. Oh wait. I'm sorry. I might as well be talking to a wall cuz he ain't gonna listen. He hasn't been listening for years.
And who wants to bet that the GOP is gonna come out and say that "al-Maliki is confused." or "We are unable to bring our troops home." Let the propaganda flood walls open!!!
The Champ is out.
As they stand up, we will put them in shackles and march them off to work in the mines....
The real thumb in BushFucked's eyeball here is.....
NO OIL BILL SIGNED BEFORE THE 'VACATION'. In case you weren't paying attention that's what the 'surge', 'wait until September...' and the rest of Bush Iraq policy has been about for the last....
Oh, since they fukin' got there.
And the slick dudes inside the Green Zone know this.
All else is pointless blather.
robinnj @ 21:
Does anyone know what any of those many government Czars are doing. They never solve anything. Perhaps we should appoint some one to monitor them. We may just need to have a Czar Czar.
By the way, no one has heard from Bob Dole. Has he even grabbed a firm grip on a pen yet, to get started on his Disabled Vets treatment project!.
..
seamus @ 22:
Ok I got 47 minutes past the hour. 20-30 minutes from now is good for me
Bin Laden appears in new al-Qaida video
22 minutes ago
CAIRO, Egypt - A new al-Qaida videotape posted Sunday on a militant Web site featured a short, undated clip of a weary-looking Osama bin Laden praising martyrdom.
The bin Laden clip, which lasted less than a minute, was part of a 40-minute video featuring purported al-Qaida fighters in Afghanistan paying tribute to fellow militants who have been killed in the country. It was posted by the group's media production wing.
Bin Laden glorified those who die in the name of jihad, or holy war, saying even the Prophet Muhammad "had been wishing to be a martyr."
"The happy (man) is the one that God has chosen him to be a martyr," added bin Laden, who was shown outdoors wearing army fatigues and looking tired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/al_qaida_video;_ylt=A...
Exactly. They could have been in charge of their own security years ago if we hadn't broken up their military. Of course, then we wouldn't be close to having them sign-off on the Hydrocarbon Law just to get our troops out.
delusion here...
and now delusion there...
our guys are in the middle...
seems like getting out is a no-brainer but that may not happen until we have a leader who can see clearly and act on that unobstructed vision...
'08 is a long time if you're a grunt...
robinnj @ 21:
Ya, He's painting a Big Bulls Eye on his ASS ! ! !
Has anyone notified the president about this ??
or DICK? or,, golly gee the chief of staff?
ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ
Bush gets off the hook on this one real easy. Just find another Iraqi official who thinks we shouldn't leave. There! See? We can't leave yet. They don't want us to and they aren't ready for us to leave anyway.
It's being reported that they can't get anyone to be Ambassador for this new $592 million dollar Embassy and are going to pick someone and MAKE him go. Hopefully it will be one of bush's loudest supporters.
If Bin Laden is so excited about martyrdom how come he is still around?
miss_kitty @ 10:
Aye. Though appears al-Maliki is taking over Baghdad Bob's job. Saw your fun with double bob who be leaving his spoor in other threads. Never saw such pride in being a dick. Good call.
There is nothing that anybody "says" that will deter this administration and the people pulling the strings, from keeping our soldiers in that place till Iraq is safe for profits.
Impeachment is the only solution. And that may be too late. They'll just run up another F. flag and go into Iran.
They are too close.
Janet @ 34:
If they have to make somebody go it will be a Dem. They'll say, "You think diplomacy is the answer to everything. Show us your stuff."
CafeenMan @ 38:
I volunteer Lieberman
The GOP is easy to figure out. All you have to do is come up with anything that rationalizes what they want. It doesn't even have to make sense in a twisted way. They will say anything at all no matter how little sense it makes. That's why it's completely pointless trying to talk or reason with them. If Bush starts eating live babies raw, wingers will justify it. In fact, it proves he's the best man for the job and it aids in our war on terrorism.
Janet @ 39:
A good idea in theory. In practice it would be a lot more efficient to pour gasonline on every living thing in the mid-east and lighting them up. Just get it over with.
Exactly right #14 pinkobait: The war was started by a coalition of oil- and moneyhungry scums, and some few ideologes of democracy who had no sense of reality nor any nerves about if not commiting then unleashing genocide. The last group being the more sympathetic face of the operation, mind you.
In any case, the sheepish and focus grouping democrats will - as always - be left standing with at least some blood on their clothes and the entire shit in their hands.
so the puppet is the smartest of the lot.
CafeenMan @ 40:
True. I'm surprised Bush hasn't show up to more photo ops and press conferences dressed like John Wayne.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/jdc6/john_wayne29.jpg
My guess, if history is to be a guide, is that the Bush regime will be twisting al-Maliki's arm over the next few days and he will come out and claim his comment was taken out of context.
I have always said, it's all about the oil. Maliki knows this too. If we leave now, they can discontinue talks about oil agreements that the corporations basicly want to steal. If they don't have the agreements signed and we leave, the insurgency will die down. Why do you think these people are fighting? They are fighting for their most valuble asset. Their resources. They know that if the oil companies get control of their oil, they will live in servitude.
BaScOmBe @ 43:
Ever read I, Cladius?
I wonder what maliki's motivation is. They obviously won't have a stable country when we leave. He must be thinking that his current stance might prevent him from being assassinated or something. He's trying to be Sadr and become popular with the people or something. I don't know.
"yes, they are taking the month of August off, it's 130 degrees there"
"well, it's 130 degrees for our soldiers on the ground, too"
"that's a good point."
I could beat Tony Snow with his own limbs.
abarts @ 49:
What's the point of beating a man with limp sausages?
it's coming now from all ends: the time to withdraw is now, not in sept, not in a month, NOW, NOW NOW. there's no way we're going to make everything better by staying. the republican gov't that put us there is now twisting the facts stating that the dems or libs will be responsible for the blood that will flow in the streets when we leave. i honestly don't know how much responsibility we bear for that as a nation because of our meddling in that country's affairs for our own gain. perhaps since they have been warring with one another for literally a thousand years, whatever happens to them was inevitable. i do know that our staying there is not helping matters. we are not assisting them to become a democracy. our goal and our only goal has been oil based. they know that. we patronize them as though they are a third world country that lives in the middle ages. most of us are completely unaware of how that country functions. we only know what our gov't elects to give us and it's tainted. if a country invaded us and we had a curfew and they could break into our homes at any time night or day and take a member of our family away or shoot them on the spot because they suspect that person is an insurgent, what would we do i strongly suspect we would gather the courage to fight them. we would not be called insurgents, we would be called patriots.
"What is the war czar doing" ...I unfortunantly don't know. I can however tell you what the Drug Czar is doing. Rooting out the evil "dangerous marijuana terrorists" ...without making any arrests, and spending 12,000 bux a shot to restore land from a crop thats grown naturally for longer than anything they plant back. What a way to spend our hard earned tax dollars. That ranks up with spending the tax dollars on an embassy, to a country that wants us out.. that the tax payers don't want to be in.
Impeach now, call members of congress, have friends call members of congress, then call them back, hang up, and immediately phone them back, set up a spam bot to flood them with impeachment emails and offences. Start printing these articles and photocopy them, and put em up on phone poles around every city in the USA. Do it fast before they pass a law against it!! Spam the world
While your at it ... Ron Paul 08! (I'm from Canada and even we see this man is your last hope.)
This is not news, folks. The Iraqi Government has wanted us out since there was the first Iraqi post-invasion government. This isn't even the first time THIS puppet government has flatly stated, "Go home, already!" Once they formed Parliament, the Members voted us out of their country. They are not stupid, as seems to be Bush's premise, so they 'neglected' to vote for the Bush oil stealing law so he can continue what he's stealing now under a thin slime of legitimacy. Bush ain't leavin' 'til the MFSoB is IMPEACHED!
And Congress, don't give me this crap about we don't have the votes. Stop suckin' your Corporate Honey Pot long enough to do the work of the Nation - save what remains of our republic and try to salvage what's been destroyed by these criminals. IMPEACH THE BASTARDS!
Why isn't Harriet Meiers behind bars this very minute for contempt? And Sara Taylor? And Gonzalez for blatant and repeated lying under oath? Harry Reid, NO SUMMER BREAK UNTIL YOU DO SOMETHING! Yes, I know I'm screaming! Sorry. No! I'm not sorry! Our "Representatives" are sorry - sorry excuses for primates!
Maybe because it's Bastille Day, but I'm a Republican pecker's length away from the revolution! Vive la guillotine! Starring Helen Thomas as 'Mdm du Farge.' Kindasleazie 'Farragamo' Rice as Marie Antoinette. With Karl Rove as "The Queen!"
Anjoe @ 42:
We know for a fact that democracy had NOTHING to do with Iraq because they said it did.
try PNAC
and AIPAC
"ANY TIME THEY WANT".........THIS has to be the mantra until the troops are out.
Here's what I say.......CONGRESS can impeach Bush and Cheney any time they want!.
no longer a proud american @ 51:
We think we have a right to set up shop anywhere in the world. We have military bases all over the globe. In some of those places we're welcome - in others we're not - we're occupiers.
How many foreign military bases do we have on US soil? How would we feel about it? Oh... wait... I forgot... it's those faggot "feelings" again. Sorry. We have more better guns so we're right as usual.
CafeenMan @ 48:
Look at Ron@46
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
Ron - Your post wasn't up when I was typing. I saw it after the fact. Makes sense to me. I still don't believe bush invaded for oil and I don't think that's his motivation for staying. I still think he has a hard-on for leaving a legacy of a great leader - commander in chief, etc. Oil probably comes into play but I think it's a bit player.
Maybe because it’s Bastille Day, but I’m a Republican pecker’s length away from the revolution! Vive la guillotine! Starring Helen Thomas as ‘Mdm du Farge.’ Kindasleazie ‘Farragamo’ Rice as Marie Antoinette. With Karl Rove as “The Queen
Horst, You less than 1/2 inch away.
Well, looks like they're standing up. When are we going to stand down? Answer: Never. Just another Bush lie.
CafeenMan @ 58:
It's always been about OIL.
What is JOE LIEBERMANS feeling on this?
Friar Tuck @ 62:
Lieberman: "The president is right. He has a good and solid plan. Things are so much better in Iraq now due to the surge, slurp, slurp, gulp!"
If the Iraqis want us out of Iraq they better figure out a way to pull a plug from the bottom of the earth and drain every drop of there oil out into outer space because that's the only way we'll be leaving. The Bush/Cheney regime didn't come this far to walk away from all that oil.
Ruthless People @ 64:
I don't know what cafeenman is thinking. Maybe we invaded for the sand because of receding beachfront.
CafeenMan @ 56:
fact: the us has bases in over 100 countries. there are few noncommunist countries where we do not have bases. currently, the US is also attacking Somalia claimg to fight Al Kaline.
xoites defends Constitution @ 32:
Same reason Bush and Cheney who are so excited about wars don't make their kids serve.
Ron @ 62:
Exoon Mobil desired to get into the Fresh Date's and Dried Fruits market.
So it really has come down to Bush, lady Laura, and that little dog. That is all has left.
Iraq can't meet any goals beause we have fucked up beyond help.
They say go. American's are saying go.
It is just Bush......how fucked up is that?
Two men are controlling lives of the planet.
Frighteneing.....I mean I don't want to sound like Chertoff...
jack jett
www.jackejett.com
Trust no one. If the troops aren't needed in Iraq, well damn! Send them to Iran?
Bush's to do list :
1. time to switch out that sock puppet, malicky
2. Change out the general putrayus, too
7. Shave Cheney's back, again.
G. Call that fat fuck Luntz and get in a hangar or big boat with generals and shit. Talk about terrorism and 911 for 30 minutes. Call Hannity.
Ron @ 62:
What I'm saying is that Bush has an inferiority complex as he should. He's never earned anything on merit. He's a loser from the word go and it's his parent's fault. Bush had everything he needed to change all that. What he chose to do, in another truly loser move) was invade a country without good cause. Many think it was for oil. I disagree. I think he had something to prove and was deluded into thinking he would go down in history with George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, etc., as a great leader in time of war.
It's a moot point really. It doesn't matter why. It needs to be stopped.
Friar Tuck @ 59:
Lieberman says its absolute proof that the Iraqi's are feeling that JOEMENTUM!
nativeokie @ 64:
Oh, i know. They are cut from the same filthy rag. The world would be a better place if we could stick them on an island somewhere. Whoever survives gets to stay on the island. Screw 'em.
I've thought for a long time that asshole leaders need to be put in a ring with whatever weapons they want and they can fight it out. Hopefully there are no survivors.
Jo @ 67:
BINGO!
to: iraq
re: u.s. troops
ms: AMF
The Left (of which I consider myself) is deluding themselves if they think this is something to celebrate. We are fucked if we pull out and we are fucked if we don't. With Bush-the-Idiot representing the US in this geopolitical chessgame, Iraq and Iran have just handed our proverbial ass to us on on a platter ....
CafeenMan @ 72:
Yeah i can see it now. Cheney would shoot Bush in the face. Bush would appologize for upseting Dick and Bin Laden we be in the forest trying to find and train a bunny to strap on a bomb vest and martyr itself for 79 virgin bunnies.
CafeenMan @ 69:
If you look hard at the history while he was still governor, you will find that plans were already drawn up on how the oil fields would be divided up.
Da Spyda @ 70:
LIARman is targeting Iran right about now!
Wow, this would be perfect if we were in Iraq for any one of the many many reasons the Bush Crime Family has given for being in Iraq but since we are only there for the oil I don't see how Boot-liki saying they don't need us anymore makes any difference to George and co who are keeping us there.
Ron - yes, I'm aware of that. I still believe what I believe. Nobody knows for sure what goes on in Bush's head except not much.
Ron - #56
"Horst, You less than 1/2 inch away."
's what I'm sayin', bro! LOL!
xoites defends Constitution @ 76:
I wasn't thinking about collateral damage. Forget the ring. They get locked in a concrete room until their differences are settled. No survivors = they're all getting along now. :)
CafeenMan @ 80:
Well, I just hope you don't believe any of the reasons that Bush and Cheney said we needed to invade.
Ron - Dude, I have been against this war from 2002 when Bush started making up bullshit reasons. I said back then that it would be a quagmire. I said that the Iraqis rolled over in '91 because at that time we were a mythical power to them - they thought we had almost god-like power. But now that they've met us (still '91) they realize we're flesh and blood and this time would be different. I also said we would be stuck there for a very long time because a) what I just said, and b) people who knew what they were talking about (shinseki) were being fired.
Unfortunately, the blog where I posted all that is offline which sucks because I'd love to be able to pull up my old posts and throw it in winger's faces (not that it would matter, but whatever).
So no, I don't believe anything bush says. I do love it when they pretend to be liberals and start talking about the humanitarian aspect of the invasion, e.g. saving 50 million Iraqis from a brutal dictator. It's fun calling them liberal because it gives them diarhea. :)
Iam out folks!! take care and thanks for feedback and fun time here.
well fun meaning,, not fights so forth. take care ppls and have a good saterday eveing and a even better sunday!
regards,,
The American (%75 kraut,among other) Living in Germany!!!!
CafeenMan @ 80:
BaScOmBe @ 51:
the boosh advisors: PNAC
and AIPAC
and cheney.
he doesn't have to do any thinking.
Didn't Sadam say the same words four years ago?
Speaking of him I heard he's on the Arabic equivalent of "Where is he now?" this Sunday.
A - I - PAC
A - I - PAC
A-I-P-A-C-P-N-A-C FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
Ron, I understand what Cafeenman is saying about Bush wanting to 'prove' himself and carve a heart in the history tree w/ "GWB + GWB," however I think that is affording Bush too much integrity. Yes, he's been a total f.up his entire life, never accomplished anything meritorious, gotten anything w/o daddy's help. Still, his colors were displayed in a Florida grammar school classroom, when in the face of catastrophic tragedy, he rabbit froze and continued with "The Pet Goat." That is the behavior of a, inconsequential, 'small' man, not one to illuminate the pages of a dark time in U.S. history.
If only Al-Maliki would say for the cameras: Don't let the screen door hit ya where the good lord split ya. Maybe some folksy-sounding talk would get the word out better, seems to work for Our Fearless Decider.
Fringe religious wackos should also be in that ring. In fact, let's create a country for all those people...it can be called Zealotville. All they'll want to do all day long is start wars with other countries, which, free from the burden of useless citizens hell bent on all things negative, would outsmart this country and shackle it in containment.
Oh the joy that would bring...
US troops won't be going anywhere until all the oil is ours (technically the big oil companies)
That's what the "benchmarks" really are.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/56672/
Ron @ 1:
Just as soon has he signs the oil sharing agreement with big oil.
Just one day after the Iraqi government received failing marks in President Bush's surge interim progress report, Americans learned that the Iraqi parliament is proceeding with its plans to take off the month of August. But while the American people may be up in arms, President Bush's amen corner is predictably silent. After all, given Bush's own record-setting penchant for vacationing during crises here at home, Republicans are understandably reticent to criticize the absentee government in Baghdad.
For more details, see:
"Republicans Quiet on Iraqi - and Bush - Vacations."
That was not the Iraqi prime minister you fools! That was his doppelganger!
That was not the Iraqi prime minister you fools! That was his doppelganger! Don't believe what it says!
So if he says, any time they want, that means tomorrow. Start shipping people out tomorrow and get the hell out fast since the place is going to move into full civil war mode.
The next time any member of congress says he/she is for re-deployment of the troops, ask him/her Re-deployment to where? If it isn't re-deployment to HOME tell them to just STFU.
So what the f are we waiting for???
the media will probably memory hole Maliki and Give the Fred Kagan types more airtime
We would tomorrow if we could take the oil, but that will take twenty years.
.....“There are disagreements that the strategy that Petraeus is following might succeed in confronting al-Qaida in the early period but it will leave Iraq an armed nation, an armed society and militias,” al-Suneid said.....
Well so much for the anti-gun control argument.
When Bush says that US troops are the only thing preventing a bloodbath, it reminds me of the Life of Brian stoning scene:
MATTHIAS:
Look. I don't think it ought to be blasphemy, just saying 'Jehovah'.
CROWD:
Oooh! He said it again! Oooh!...
OFFICIAL:
You're only making it worse for yourself!
MATTHIAS:
Making it worse?! How could it be worse?! Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!
Once the US troops are gone, most of the factions will gang up on the more extreme Al Qaeda elements and wipe them out. The only the reason they are prospering is that they are targeting US troops as much as Iraqis. Once they are gone, both Sunni and Shia factions will purge them.
But the whole point is not about saving US and Iraqi lives and having things settle down, but about control of the oil in the Persian Gulf. There is no other reason really to continue this Mesopotamian genocide.
Well, thats it. They asked us to leave.
You gonna honor that George?
They asked, you gonna withdraw?
Watch arab bravado sink Iraq. The Iraqis have been hitting sour notes all week. First was the line about the congress not being serious about leaving, now this. Two possibilities:
A) Hes politically tone deaf about events in the United States.
B) He wants to subtly goad us into leaving, ensuring an immediate shiite autocracy.
You should watch this.
The Guardian's award-winning photographer and filmmaker Sean Smith spent two months embedded with US troops in Baghdad and Anbar province. His harrowing documentary exposes the exhaustion and disillusionment of the soldiers.
http://ooibc.blogspot.com/2007/07/inside-surge.html
The hell with a timetable for withdrawal. The only question should be what is the fastest we can safely withdraw the troops. How long would it take to get the ships there? Hell, I understand we now have three aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf. There can remove a lot of men and equipment. If we have to leave most of the equipment there. Most of it is not worth two cents after five years of constant war. Remove the tanks, aircraft, and heavy artillery so the Iraqis cannot sue it to kill each other. The troops will carry their arms.
We have now been told by the Iraqi government that we are no longer needed. That has been King George's excuse for staying. If the chicken-hawks want to go fight let them. The country would be better off without Bush (and what about his twins), Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch. They can use the equipment we left.
Friar Tuck: "What is JOE LIEBERMAN'S feeling on this?" Who cares. Let Lieberman be the chaplain for the chicken-hawk brigade.
Gayle @ 106:
Thanks for that, Gayle. I should be required viewing for all war-pigs. In fact, they should see it firsthand.
You know they've (the Iraqis) have been leaving some small and many rather large "hints" all over Baghdad and throughout Iraq for several years now... I mean it needn't have been uttered by Maliki for us to understand that they want us to get the hell out of their country, right?
I don't think IED's are a clear enough hint for Bush. He needs something more obvious.
CafeenMan @ 110:
They have sent a pretty clear message to my nephew a few times now. Maybe Bush needs to suit up and ride around what was recently a quaint quiet village turned hellhole with my nephew. He'll be safe. Eli drives the lead vehicle. It's vehicles 2 and 3 that get blown all to hell...
What does your nephew think about the war?
When he got there he thought it was cool. He gets to drive Hummers around. He was in Fallujah, and everything was pretty quiet (relatively speaking). Right after they got there, a car bomb blew up close to their vehicle and gave everyone concussions. they next day, they were cleared for duty. A few guys got killed in Fallujah, but not in his presence.
Then they got sent to a small town of about 7000 (left) and they had one cop.
They'd just gotten there and were milling around and a buddy of his, nearby, was shot dead, in the face, by a sniper. Now he's kind of scared shitless.
He is a 20 year old Marine.
miss_kitty @ 4:
You misunderstand. I've never said that US troops should stay forever. I have said that the issue is more complex than "stay the course" or "troops out now". We can absolutely use polls or opinions from Iraqi Parlimentarians as political cover to withdraw our troops if we want to. That gives us some semblance of justification and dignity. That's just politics.
I still have questions. Given that we had no business attacking Iraq in the first place and that our attack killed a lot of Iraqis and directly led to the current civil war, do we have any obligation to try to fix our mistake? If not, should we not be concerned that the instability in Iraq will spread (invasions from neighbouring states, etc.)? If neither of these is an issue, then let's just pull out as soon as reasonably possible (in a manner which does not expose our forces to any greater risk and does not leave our munitions and other supplies lying around for others to use).
On the other hand, if we do have an obligation to try to fix our error, or if the potential consequences of leaving are horrific, maybe we should be discussing other alternatives....
Thing Fish @ 33:
That's great Thing Fish. Just like a fundamentalist GOPer, you can't stand people with a different point of view, can you?
Bob Roberts @ 114:
Yes we have an obligation to fix our mistake. Unfortunately we can't do it. The best we can do is get out and stop making things worse. What happens next is up to the Iraqis. Given their track record I'm assuming the worst. UN peace keepers probably won't be much help and will get killed off instead of us getting killed off. Iraqis will still get killed whether we stay, go or send peace keepers.
The least we can do is continue sending aid. The best we can do is send aid and learn that we really screwed up and take that lesson into the future. That means not electing morons into positions giving them a lot of control over life and death, not waging any war where we aren't in imminent danger, etc.
If we could fix things in Iraq I'd say it's our duty to do so. But we can't. And we got our asses kicked due to waging this war in the first place and having incompetent people at the helm. If nothing else we need to actually learn something. I'm skeptical.
Miss Kitty - I got out of the service just in time. I actually signed my papers july 2001. When 9/11 happened I gave half a thought to staying in, but even before bush was handed the presidency I was 50/50 stay or go. When he took office I knew he was going to get a lot of us killed for no noble cause. Had Gore been elected I would probably have stayed in and been just a few years from retirement right now.
I hope your nephew makes it home safe.
CafeenMan @ 116:
You're probably right (and definitely right about not electing morons). I'm not sure that the UN should be ruled out (though this administration won't seek UN assistance) and I'm not sure we shouldn't be trying diplomacy on Iran, Syria and Turkey (even of the less subtle type of diplomacy - like "if you invade Iraq, we'll bomb/sanction/whine at you").
What if the worst happens and a genocide begins to occur? Do we try anything then? When the government ignored the Rwandan genocide, many liberals were very critical of the administration. We are far more complicit should an Iraqi genocide occur. Do we do anything then?
I don't have the answers Bob. I knew this was would be a catastrophe before it started. Bush opened Pandora's box. Now there are no right answers.
I think if I got stuck with ownership of the situation the first thing I would do is beg and plead for other middle eastern countries - you know... people who understand the culture - to get involved and try to mediate things. I don't know how well that would work. Most of what I know about the middle east is the bullshit perpetuated by the media which I'm sure doesn't square with reality. But given that people are people and that people are corrupted by power, giving anyone power over what's going in Iraq means that Iraq will get abused in the process.
Hopefully the trade-off will be more stability and less death.
Anyway, had I owned the situation we never would have been in Iraq in the first place. I work in psychiatry. One of the first things they teach us is don't ask a patient a question you're prepared to deal with the answer to.
Bush was stupid and short-sighted enough to believe he could deal with the consequences of his decision to invade Iraq. I'm sure he thought it would be like in '91 - over in a few weeks and then roses and and sunshine.
I, and I'm not alone, knew that I wouldn't be prepared to deal with the consequences and wouldn't have opened the box. My point is that this problem is so far from anything I would have brought on myself that I don't have an answer to how to deal with it. All I know for certain is that us being there isn't stopping the killing. Us leaving won't stop the killing. But us leaving will stop the killing our soldiers part. We have no control over the events in Iraq from any standpoint. Bush is still trying to win. He's out there in the 23rd inning all by himself. He lost the game in 6 innings and the other team left the field. He's just too clueless to have figured that out.
Sorry for all the redundancy in this post. I'm too tired to go back and take out stuff I said more than three times. :)
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Actually the embassy is a farse.The reports of it being on time and on budget are a lie. The new embassy is plagued with all kinds of troubles. The electrical wiring in the guards quarters are below specs and a fire hazard. A Kuwati company has handled the construction thus far and the quality is sub par.
The guards were set to move into their new high tech quarters but when it was discovered the wiring couldn't handle the electrical load the guards were forced to live in temporary quarters.
They may eventually get it done, but don't think its the mighty metropolis the press is letting us believe it is. Like everything else in Iraq its a disaster.
"Hey Ceeesco!"
"Hey Paaancho!"
"Let's WENT!"
[...] Other coverage on this topic (H/T to MemeOrandum): NYT (Richard A. Oppel, Jr); The Moderate Voice; Crooks And Liars [...]
Screw the time-table! Troops out NOW!
Well, we have heard it more than once. Everyone send an email to the President and your representatives and tell them this is what we have been waiting for.
The people of Iraq have been ruled by a dictatorship, they don't know much about how to run a government (although I am sure Bush will tell them how).
We need to come home and mind our own business. Iran has held out an olive branch. They did it in 2003 and our President snubbed them. Besides, why would anyone want a government like the one we have now?
Bush says that we're only in Iraq because the Iraqis want us there. A survey of Iraqis showed that an overwhelming majority want us out. Recently the Iraqi Parliament voted for us to leave. Bush said we have to stay because Prime Minister al Maliki wants us to stay. But Maliki says the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in Iraq when American troops leave and we can leave can leave any time we want. The American People also want our troops to come home. Why are we still there, Mr. Bush? You've lost your last excuse. The Iraqis want us out and the American People want us out. Must I remind you that you are an employee of the American People not a nation unto yourself? Do what the Iraqis and the American People want and let our service members come home to the families and nation that love them. NOW!
al-Maliki needs to force the US to reveal its true intentions. HE needs to order the US out of their sovereign nation. When Bush refuses, America's colonial intentions will not be able to be ignored by the global community. The US will then be chargeable for waging a war of aggression with intent to colonize(war for purposes of acquisition of land by conquest). Two separate war crimes.
[...] Crooks and Liars [...]
al-Maliki needs to force the US to reveal its true intentions. HE needs to order the US out of their sovereign nation.
He already did that. That's kind of what the whole Iraqi Parliament thing was about, right? If Bush won't let the troops leave then there's nothing left to do until the American legislature forces him to leave.
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