John Dean On Harriet Miers's Contempt of Congress
By Nicole Belle Friday Jul 13, 2007 8:30pm
President George Bush has issued an instruction to his former White House counsel Harriet Miers to defy the House Judiciary Committee's subpoena. The Committee had sought to ask her about her role - and that of others in the White House - in firing a covey of United States Attorneys who were apparently not toeing the political line. Bush's instruction sent a very clear signal: As I wrote earlier, and as has been clear from the outset, he is looking for a fight.
By not responding to the subpoena, the President and Ms. Miers all but invited the House Judiciary Committee and, in turn, the House of Representatives to vote to deem her in contempt of Congress. It was a defiant, in-your-face insult to Congress. No president would do this unless he was quite confident of the outcome. Clearly, Bush's White House and Justice Department lawyers believe that the solidly conservative federal judiciary will grant them a favorable ruling, and that, in the process, they will greatly weaken congressional oversight powers, to the advantage of the White House.
In short, the Bush White House is not bluffing with this act of defiance. Rather, the White House truly wants to test, and attempt to expand, presidential power.
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Wow... Talk about Contempt of Congress!
Contempt of The Constitution and the People whom it protects and serves.
"Rather, the White House truly wants to test, and attempt to expand, presidential power."
While I believe this is true, one has to wonder WHY he would want to continue to expand presidential power, knowing how slim the odds are there will be another republic president anytime in the next 20 years. Unless, Bush has reason to believe that 3/4 of the peoples votes are not going to count next fall...
I hope Conyers and Leahy keep going on the contempt charges.
Nothing new under the sun...when we have an Impeachment hearing I'll be happy otherwise we know this shit already...no offence John Dean I'm just saying...that's all.
"In short, the Bush White House is not bluffing with this act of defiance. Rather, the White House truly wants to test, and attempt to expand, presidential power."
And he'll get it. Carry on. Your country is sinking and nobody cares.
I'm pretty sure favorable justices won't be able to do anything when they impeach his ass.
IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!!!!!!!
What I find absolutely stunning is executive privilege does not extend to staff who are no longer working at the White House. Taylor and Meiers are off the payroll. Bush is just pushing Congress to see how far he can go. Amazingly, that old fossil, Fred Fielding is going along with it.
I was in college when Watergate happened and I was riveted by it. The goings on in this administration make that time look like a party.
I wish they would just start drawing up articles of impeachment.
It's time to IMPEACH!!
IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!!
Why would the Dems fight him? Hell with every new presidential writ and bs law, it strengthens the next president, who will likely be a Dem. All they have to do is keep letting Bushie expand presidential powers, and soon it is theirs to abuse. One poster already in a different thread stated that it is almost looking like it is a pre-planned agreement between the two parties. In my opinion, it looks more and more like it every day.
ARRRRGH! Ok...I'm ready to throw this friggin' computer through the bloody window....I'M TRYING to link up to Angry Rakkistan's democratic response to Bush's radio address today and I'm too much of a twonk (wink, wink, Miss Kitty) to get the job done. CNN has the audio and Daily Kos comments has a link...it's rather important because it seems to be playing REALLY BIG IN ASIA, especially CHINA!!!! But of course, MSM drops the friggin' ball.
It's not just contempt of Congress, it's contempt of, and for, the American people. It's contempt of everyone who isn't them. He said it a long time ago, "You're either with or or you're against us." That was a declaration of war. He (they) intends to win. The Constitution is quaint and only "a goddamned piece of paper."
Fer cryin' outloud..I didn't even spell Rakkisan correctly.....I need a hug.
He and Chenny can get way with it--Because they are on a mission for God--AIPAC that is !
Power for what?
It seems like power for power's sake. Power for the sake of snubbing your political adversaries without regard to the consequence to the nation either now or in the future.
What could the possible use of this power be except to make the President above the law and beyond the restraint of the checks and balances of our government?
This isn't expanding Presidential power -- this is grabbing it.
Does make you wonder how the Repukes are going to like having a Democratic prez with vastly expanded powers to go along with a Dem-controlled Senate and House. My hunch is that Bush is only concerned with the skeletons in his closets -- the rest of the party can fend for themselves.
"Clearly, Bush’s White House and Justice Department lawyers believe that the solidly conservative federal judiciary will grant them a favorable ruling."
True. They also believe that the Spineless Dems and Rubber Stamp Rethugs will be consistent in their seriously challenging their power grab. And they may be right.
Impeachment is THE ONLY solution.
In a court of law when a person is charged with contempt, don't they go to jail? Can't congress send a federal marshall to her home and bring her in. Then she would remain in jail until she complies.
Bobdog @ 16:
Exactly. Then once elected/selected, you can do like Bush has the last 6 years----whatever the heck you want and thumb your nose at the American people and the world. No making excuses. Stay the course. 911. Terrists lurking. Etc, etc, etc ad nauseum. What have the Dems even attempted so far, even in just going on the media? They stutter, fumble, yammer, and yap like they are a bunch of incompetent buffoons. Rather than stand up and at least attempt to confront, they threaten to do nothing, and do just as much.
This is an all-out attack on the Congress, The People's House, in which case it is an attack on The People of the United States.
What in blazes is it going to take to get The People out into the streets protesting in the hundreds of thousands against this criminal regime? If not now, WHEN???
Is Mr. Dean just pontificating or is he actively consulting with the members of the House Judiciary Committee?
IMPEACH THEM NOW.
Wake up Congress, you're getting tipped like a cud-chewing COW.
Miers' name is made possessive thusly.
I don't think Dems are into spying on Americans. That's a paranoid thing mostly unique to the GOP. I also don't see that they really want to throw people in overseas prisons. The only thing I can see they might want is not having to explain what they do to anyone. And the spying thing maybe so they can watch young female interns shower or something. Good old-fashioned, healthy voyeurism unlike the GOP which uses it to watch teenage boys masturbate and, by the way, spy on the opposition.
Strawberry @ 15:
This is the best I can do over the intertubes:
(( :) ))
BTW, while I agree with Dean that the Bush regime is calculating that the right wing stacked judiciary will use this charge of contempt to expand Executive power, and I also agree Bruce Fine's analysis, I think that the Dems should go ahead and force the issue. In the likely scenario that these extraordinary presidential powers are passed to the next President, who will in all likelihood be a Democrat, Conservatives will be pressing to have these decisions overturned.
Ron @ 20:
Can't bush just order her release?
We are in DEEP HORSE SHIT when this rogue president believes that he's got the Supremes in his back pocket.
Read that sentence again... now breathe deep and repeat after me:
This president has the Supremes in his back pocket!
The ONLY action left (for any of us) to "preserve this Union" is for the House of Representatives to go to work on articles of Impeachment against Cheney immediately. There is SO MUCH material to chose from, their toughest problem should only be to know where to start. THAT would cut Bush's knees out from under him... and put the fear of Jusus into the hearts of others like KKKarl. And... OH yea... did I mention that we should TRY Cheney in the Senate BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, WITH NO SWORN OATH, AND NO TRANSCRIPT... Just like the White House likes to conduct business.
On Monday Cheney would dissapear into the Hearing Chambers... and the next thing we see of him is on Friday in his new orange jump-suit in a cage at GITMO.
“The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!”
–Camille Desmoulins
“One must frighten those who govern; one must never frighten the people.”
– Antoine Saint-Just
CafeenMan @ 27:
That would be a touchy situation. The Federal Marshals would probably be confronted by the Secret Service. What a mess that would be.
CafeenMan @ 27:
Who knows. She would only be charged, not convicted. But I don't think Harriet would do well even for a day in the slammer.
The marshalls would back down, meirs would be released and bush would say, "Fuck you" to America again and laugh about it with his buds.
@25 - Why is spying on females "healthier" than spying on males? The fact is, it's almost always done by people in positions of power. And don't be naive by assuming that all Democrats are benign and would never want to spy on their opponents. This isn't about Democrats and Republicans. It's about the Constitution and the rights of The People. It's about the future of the nation.
CafeenMan @ 32:
No, the US Marshals would not back down. They are very serious people.
This would be the Supreme Court for the Busheviks to take the test to.
Impeach Now!
shoephone @ 33:
I was joking about the spying on females... it's a clinton thing....
I don't think dems are benign. I think they're useless. The GOP is dangerous. I'll take useless over dangerous any time.
xoites defends Constitution @ 34:
ok, I don't know any personally so I'll take your word for it. In the end, I still think bush wins this one and tells us all to go screw ourselves. How it goes down I don't know. But why on earth would you believe that in this one unique instance somebody is going to stand up to bush and carry it through? When has that ever happened?
Today is Bastille Day. The chairs of the Judiciary Committees should have gone before the microphones and reminded Bush and Cheney of how lucky they are that the guillotine is no longer the accepted form of resistance to an authoritarain regime.
"I don’t think dems are benign. I think they’re useless. The GOP is dangerous. I’ll take useless over dangerous any time."
Yep.
The Bush White House knows it can count on the Democrats (the other wing of the "property party" as Vidal calls them) to enable this power grab. The putrefaction of the U.S. bourgeoisie and its 'democratic' institutions proceeds apace. Hopefully working people will wake up and take charge before the neocon/christian crackpots launch Armageddon.
xoites defends Constitution @ 34:
Sorry, but CafeenMan is right.....the Marshals will back down and the Shrub will have his way. Do you really think if anyone truly gave a shit The Whore House would be getting away will all this!? Think about it.....
CafeenMan @ 37:
Well, you got me therre.
xoites defends Constitution @ 34:
How are you? I put out 5 letters to congress today. I'm trying to get a congress person to step up to the plate.
Caffeen man, I agree on all accounts. But "useless" won't help us any either. It's an outrage that the Republican minority is still running the show in Congress. We need some pit bulls who mean business. If I could, I'd clone Henry Waxman about 25 times over.
If she's charged with contempt of congress, no problem! Bush will commute her sentence.
If he'd do it for Scooter, I'm sure he'll do it for the President of his fan club!
Hi Ron. :) I am fine.
Congress needs to step up alright.
That idiot Dean, WRONG AGAIN.
• They have no cards to play, they are all on the table (except for Iran and a domestic 'disaster').
• Harriet Miers is SUCH a weak person that she won't stand up to Congressional questioning. They are terrified of her mistakes.
• Cheney's 'fourth branch' nonsense lasted three days. At 25% approval, the solidly-conservative bench is going to chew these bastards up, and Bushco knows it.
• The Congressional pressure has led to this, and now we see the Shitehouse trying to run out the clock --because-- they don't have a political leg to stand on.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN.
Cowboy Bob-
"This president has the Supremes in his back pocket! "
Oh, baby love, ain't no mountain high enough to STOP! in the name of this resident in love with 'hissef!'
Certainly,after reading Dean's "Conservatives ..." I completely respect his interpretation. Nevertheless, wouldn't it require some pretty convoluted, mutant logic for SCotUS to overthrow the Constitutional obligation Congress has to hold to account the Executive branch? As for Bush ordering the release of Miers, can a person held in contempt be pardoned? Isn't "contempt" a behavior modifying time out for people who still need them as they mature? (note the avoidance of "adult")
Balak @ 40:
I keep saying this and I'll say it again just so you know what's coming.
Americans are not fed up enough to get off their fat, lazy asses and do anything. When armaggedon comes (they won't stop it in advance) their entire worlds will be turned upside down and they'll be clueless what to do. They'll cling to some desperate hope that their lives will return to normal. They will continue to follow their leaders for guidance because they'll be too chicken-shit to take control of the situation.
In the event some faction does take up arms against the government they will be considered fringe survivalist nut-cases and be dealt with swiftly.
Americans are never going to do anything about what's happening or what's coming. Judging from what Americans in general think about bush (the polls are WAY too high) I frankly don't think there is a point where things are bad enough for Americans to step up. They think it's somebody else's job and if somebody else isn't doing it then there must be a good reason not to.
Im. Fucking. Peach. Already.
shoephone @ 44:
Useless just causes less damage and less death and less hatred towards us. See my last post for a view at the apocolypse.
Bush knows that the Dems will do nothing and he does whatever he wants.
IMPEACH BOTH, BUSH AND CHENEY !!!
DO YOUR JOB DEMOCRATS FOR WHICH YOU WERE ELECTED!!!
GonzoD @ 45:
That would be GREAT! If only he would use his pardon power AGAIN to obstruct justice. The effects on the judiciary would be marvelous.
• They are going down the tubes.
CafeenMan @ 49:
Absolutely 10,000% correct! The state of apathy among Americans is staggering!
Thanks again, Gang of 14, Holy Joe, Harry Reid and the WaPo, for giving us our fine wingnut judiciary.
I have had it with all the BS. All this talk, all this speculation about what will and will not happen if.... If someone in our congress doesn't stand up and talk bluntly about how this admistration is ATTACKING America then we can all just sign off and go get a tan. These people are as much a threat as a machine gun nest firing down on our fellow citizens and somebody needs to start swinging and I'm talking haymakers. Impeach now or the ground we lose will never be regained... ever. My next vote will be for someone with passion and conviction and I have many, many friends who feel the same. Impeachment is there to use so that we don't need a revolution.
It's not going to happen, Kelly. Stock up on bottled water because basic survival will be a challenge probably in your lifetime.
nirak @ 52:
Impeachment is a POLITICAL act, not a legal act, except IF you had enough votes for removal, you could remove them.
• We don't HAVE enough votes for removal, so impeachment is a BAD political act.
INDICTMENT is the royal road to being free from royals.
We need to remove AG Fredo, and his next appearance before Congress looms.
While you ought to be sharpening your teeth for the feast, you are busy running around like desperate hyenas without a ticket to the party. The more disaffilated you are, the more you have to believe in the worst, instead of understanding that this conspiracy has turned to cowcrap on a hot Texan road.
They're DONE. Why don't you write to Republican Senators and let them know that YOU know it's over, and THEY had better figure that out or they will join the bastards in the 'shit without a smell left' pile.
I don't know how much more in your face insulting Bush could get than this. He makes Nixon and Ronald R. start to look like good guys.
This kind of cocky challenge is scary.
xoites defends Constitution @ 46:
I lokked at the animated map. It almost looked like the fireworks on the 4th of July.
Short of a revolution I wonder what it would take to get America to step up.....?
Sadly and in Horror,
The poisioning of our courts is the sleeper event and outcome of these years of GOP planning. Our entire democracy is hinging on an ever-dumbed-down people to cry foul.
Put simply, we are fucked unless we demand impeachment.
AND I MEAN F_U_C_K_E_D my dear friends.
SpankyTheMonkey @ 61:
A revolution would work. Who's gonna start it? And how will it get enough momentum fast enough that it can't be stifled with a few fire-bombs to burn it all down?
andrew @ 59:
If you want to be afraid, be afraid for the Republican party -- because they are FREAKING OUT, and rightfully so.
The more disaffiliated you are, the more you have fear and desperation as your only moves.
• The revolution will not be televized, because there doens't need to be a revolution, just the removal of A FEW MORE cronies, and the whole thing is going to fall down.
dan @ 3:
I agree with the "one has to wonder WHY" Anything the supremes vote on in favor of Bush is only for 16 months and then it seems apparent that a Dem will hold office. So what does Bush gain??? Unless Bush has "other" plans to undercut the next election.
CafeenMan @ 63:
*sadly nodding* And so,....we're back to square one.
I can see it now when Democrats take office, they will abuse the power and bunch of lefty will say "but Bush did it too!" and that will make it right in their eyes.
Red Dog @ 62:
Then you are fucked. Because impeachment will never come, until there are 20 Republican Senators ready to vote for conviction.
• Speaker Pelosi has ovaries of STEEL. She will not yield to public pressure from people who don't understand that their desperation is not good politics, or an impeachment without conviction the solution to this problem.
INDICTMENT, unlike impeachment, is a CRIMINAL PROCESS.
Try to understand the difference.
Ron @ 60:
Yes, not a very happy sight is it?
paranoia @ 67:
It would be just deserts - not fair. But it would piss me off not that any of our politicians care how we feel about anything past getting our vote.
paranoia @ 67:
The administration has a complicit EXTREME RIGHT WING MAIN STREAM MEDIA (ERWMSM). They would never let a Democrat get away with it.
CafeenMan @ 51:
1. Get off the caffeine.
2. Get a dictionary. We don't need fearmongering from someone unable to SPELL apocalypse.
INDICTMENT, unlike impeachment, is a CRIMINAL PROCESS.
Try to understand the difference.
So, the question becomes: how could we possibly get to INDICTMENT with a corrupted judiciary?
I don't agree that impeachment would be a bad move. The impeachment process, besides the obvious, would be the beginning of an education for the American people who don't pay attention. It would be hard for the MSM not to cover the proceedings (god know fox noise would try) and all the sins would be laid out day after day after day after day.
Screw the fight the President wants. Congress should set the terms of the fight and commence impeachment in their forum of choosing, not the president's. Screw wasting time on these silly subpoena's, for once the president chose to ignore them and to completely obstruct legitimate Congressional inquiries, along with the heaping bag of lies perpetrated to date, this leaves Congress with no choice but to commence impeachment proceedings immediately.
Paul in LA @ 72:
thanks for the tips, Paul. Sorry that my spelling isn't up to par. I type fast and sometimes miss stuff. I don't really care because it's trivial since it got the point across. Fear mongering is what political blogs are all about. Fear the GOP. Fear the Dems. Fear the islamofascists. Fear everything.
Anyway, prove me wrong. I don't want to be right about this, but show me any signs of anything.. ANYTHING... tangible that is being done about Bush. So far the dem congress has initiated lots of stuff that they in turn backed down on. Shows how weak they are. Like the parent threatening the poorly behaved kid in the store and then buying them candy instead. Not very effective is it?
Anyway, prove me wrong. I'd like that.
shoephone @ 73:
You simply give in, huh? "A corrupted judiciary" -- how do you know that?
• Cronies block our path. SO WHAT?!?
THE JOB IS TO REMOVE THE CRONIES IN THE WAY. There is no better way to EXPOSE them than to work within the LEGAL POWERS OF THE CONGRESS, and use the political power of the nation to bring those cronies to their knees.
Count on an IDIOT like Dean to want to fearmonger that process.
He has really got you going.
aquarius2 @ 65:
tbhull @ 75:
I couldn't agree more... I will be e-mailing my reps regularly with that exact demand!
CafeenMan @ 76:
That was a good laugh. Thanks for that.
Just impeach them now.
We don't need the MSM.
Clinton didn't when the public was on his side while the puindits
were squarely backing his removal.
Likewise, the MSM won't save Bush. The public will support his ouster.
It will be a lesson learned the hard way for both a criminal executive branch and a complicit news media.
Let me try again:
aquarius2 @ 65:
The situation is, the Repub machinery will not be leaving when Bush does. The admin has hired/placed career wingnuts in the judiciary, department of justice, department of education and everywhere else you can imagine.
Paul in LA @ 80:
You're welcome. :)
Perhaps the citizens in this country could have a surge?
And also, the MSM belongs to the wingnuts.
Kelly @ 79:
You are wasting your time. Rep. Conyers and Speaker Pelosi have put it off the table for the OBVIOUS reason that we don't have enough votes in the Senate for conviction.
• Desperate cooks want to throw flour and water up in the air, and have pizza dough come down.
Good thing Pelosi and Conyers aren't so easily driven by fear. STAND YOUR GROUND AS A CONGRESS does not mean starting a process without a conclusion.
INDICTMENT, INDICTMENT, INDICTMENT should be your drumbeat, not all this handwringing about the Dems who are busy working through the steps for that to occur.
Yes, Bush is very confident of the outcome in this right wing idealogue stacked Supreme Court. And Bush has appointed 2 more wingnuts since this http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=5348
It's all over but the shouting folks.
First, I think Congress should test it. Expose the court for the lemmings they are.
Second, they should send the Sgt. at Arms to pick her up and bring her before the Committee. If she refuses to testify, throw her in jail.
Congress could declare her an Enemy Combatant and hold that habeas corpus does not apply!
Paul in LA @ 77:
Right. Congress actually step up and back up their threats? LOL
Ruthless People @ 87:
Your DEFEATISM is noted. What else you got?
Paul in LA @ 86:
Paul in LA @ 86:
What about both indictment and impeachment, as these are not mutually exclusive.
CafeenMan @ 89:
See, it's as I said. The more disaffiliated you are, the more the only method you have is fearmongering and desperation.
You have no faith. Your paranoia has been stoked by the coup, and now you are on an overdrive you have no defense against.
Paul in LA @ 90:
I'm an optimist. :)
Paul in LA @ 93:
Faith in what? Our legal process? The integrity of our elected officials? That Americans will give up their comfort to go fight against something they don't even think is affecting them? Call it fear-mongering if you like but all you're doing is throwing out names without offering anything real as an alternative. Do you actually believe congress is going to step up?
tbhull @ 92:
Actually, they are, because impeachment HANDS BACK THE AGENDA to the Republicans, allowing them an easy target.
Indictments can come out ten a day. Impeachment is a single POLITICAL process that takes a YEAR or more.
However, the underlying process is the same, the production of evidence. Chairpersons Conyers, Leahy, Waxman, etc. are already well into that process, and the only difference is that LABELING it impeachment is the way to bring the MAXIMUM resistance from the Republicans -- who CANNOT and WILL NOT throw themselves into the path of multiple indictments.
Paul in LA @ 90:
Impeachment. But Pelosi want put it on the table. What about you? What have you got besides wided-eyed optimism?
CafeenMan @ 95:
Now you are describing your disaffiliation. That's correct, you are disaffiliated. You have no faith, and don't know what to have faith in. No wonder you are so desperate. I feel for you.
But spreading your fearmongering is NOT the right stuff.
PS for Paul in LA. I wrote this to my congressperson. Read my letter and her reply and tell me again how badgering her is going to make a shittin' bit of difference.
==================
Dear Representative Brown-Waite,
To say I am thoroughly disgusted with the "Executive Branch" of our government is an under-statement in the extreme.
It is not my intention to be sarcastic, but apparently neither the President nor the Vice-President understand the terms "representative" or "democracy."
These men have made a mockery of our fundamental values as a country and a society and as human beings. While they are enjoying their tight-knit clique.
They have committed a number of serious crimes yet have not been held accountable for any of them. Why not?
I am a registered Independent voter because I do not want to be trapped by any ideology. I tend to be conservative by nature when it comes to money, resources and lives, but liberal when it comes to people, the environment and most social issues.
George Bush fraudulently claims to be "saved." He fraudulently claims to be conservative. There is nothing genuine about his religious posturing or anything else he does. Most of the people I know are Republicans, yet none of them can tell me anything he's done right or anything he's done that's made things better.
I left the service for the sole reason that George Bush was elected. I was fortunate to get out before he wasted a lot of American and Iraqi lives but I knew he was up to no good and I knew his character was deeply flawed as evidenced by his lifetime of failure and being rescued by his father.
I'm sure you've heard all of this before, but as far as I'm concerned everybody who allows these men to continue committing crimes is equally culpable. I don't care what political party they are affiliated with and I don't care what their excuses are.
For example, when representatives in our Congress who voted for the Iraq war claim they weren't given all the facts or that they were lied to were negligent.
I knew Iraq didn't have WMD's. I knew Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. I knew Iraq was no threat to our national security. Why is it that I knew those things yet people in our government didn't?
I knew because I wanted to know what the truth was and I did my own research by reading new sites from around the world.
The people who "didn't know" didn't want to know. That much is very clear.
This emporer is buck naked and I fully expect our representatives to stop the partisan nonsense and start representing us.
Frankly, I've been embarrassed to be a citizen of this country and I don't like that.
I hope for our country and your own integrity that you'll be one of those who steps up and does the right thing.
Very Best Regards,
CafeenMan
=================
Dear CafeenMan:
Thank you for expressing your opinion of President George W. Bush. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your concerns.
As you may know, the United States Constitution sets forth the general principles that control the impeachment process. The power to impeach is vested in the House of Representatives, while the Senate has the power to try impeachments. Impeachment proceedings in the House may proceed if a Member declares a charge of impeachment or introduces a memorial listing of the charges under oath.
A President may be removed from office upon impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. To this date, no Member has initiated impeachment proceedings. This is likely because the President is not under any criminal investigation and has not been charged with a crime.
I respect your views on the Iraq War; however the reasons behind the war in Iraq were fully explored in the 2004 election. The American people chose to return President Bush to office with a historic number of votes cast and clearly decided that the liberation of Iraq was proper.
I thank you for your input on this matter.
Sincerely,
Ginny Brown-Waite
Member of Congress
=================
Sure - Congress is the answer. Do you have anything that will actually work to stop BushCO. If so please fill us in.
Paul in LA @ 96:
So what you are saying is impeachment should be weighed as political value not as what the forefathers intended/ Keeping a lawless and rouge executive in check. Just so I understand you correctly?
Jesus H. Christ.... I go out drinking for a few hours and, lo, this country's political representation turns into a monstrous clusterfuck.
Paul in LA @ 96:
Paul in LA @ 98:
You're reading in way too much. I can take care of myself and live fine without all my stuff. I've done it lots of times and can survive if I need to. I'm not really afraid of it. Again, you call out what I'm saying as "fear mongering" but you don't offer any alternative to what I'm claiming will happen. Maybe you need to step out of your bubble and see what's actually happening which on the anti-bush side is a lot of not shit. And nothing is coming down the pike either.
Again, I invite you to prove me wrong. You've called me a fear-monger several times. You've made your point. Now show me I'm wrong and stop feeling sorry for me. I'm doing fine, thank you.
Paul in LA @ 98:
Look you guys, I sent 5, 5page letters to congress members today. I don't think we should ever give up.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
Ron @ 20:
I'd just love to see President Bush put up a cordon of M1 tanks and AC-130 gunships to confront any such illegal infringement of Presidential prerogatives!
Indictments? So what is the criminal offense, who is charged and do you not think at least to several indictments the executive privilege argument will tie the indictments up for at least 2 years in courts that the outcome is not that certain? Indictments go nowhere and very slowly. Pelosi, Reid and Conyers are just going to have to change their way of thinking on impeachment or get rolled.
Ruthless People @ 97:
Impeachment is off the table, for very good reasons.
I am an optimist, but I'm also a political activist WHO IS FIGHTING HARD FOR CHANGE, and a lifelong Democrat. So unlike you, I have faith in quite a few Democrats, and I also have quite a bit of faith in Speaker Pelosi and the Chairpersons. I'm not disaffiliated, so I have that advantage.
I know that leftists have a worldview, and it is a disaffiliated one. What a terror! They also have a moutain of propaganda to wade through, much of it wrong or wrongheaded.
The legal system of the United States is NOT going to fold. Bushco is a coup, and coups operate on momentum, and their momentum is pretty much GONE.
Cronies need removing, throughout the gov't. The only way to do that is by investigation and prosecution. We need something like THIRTY Special Prosecutors, and some special grand juries to hear all the cases. To get that, we need to replace the AG.
REPLACING THE AG is a LOT easier than trying to get an impeachment conviction in a political process that has NEVER worked.
The Shitehouse knows that, which is why they have lawyered up. And they LOVE that they have got leftists running around like chickens with their heads cut off, focusing on a political process without a conclusion, and one that emphasizes negative ideas about the Democrats. They LOVE THAT. You are doing Karl's work for him.
Ron @ 104:
Giving up and believing it's hopeless aren't the same things. Tell me where to enlist in the revolution you're starting. I like wearing a spiffy uniform. I can wear jeans if you don't have uniforms made yet. I still have 5 pairs of boots from my time in service so I can walk in the thorny woods and everything. Of course I don't own a gun so that's a problem. I do have some throwing knives even though I can't make them stick in anything. (note to self: practice with throwing knives)
So anyway, I'm sure your congressperson(s) are unique in that they actually care what you have to say and will vote accordingly. Mine doesn't give a shit as evidenced by her reply to me.
Paul in LA @ 77:
Who the hell said I was giving up? Certainly not me. Face up to reality. The appeals court just ruled last week that the ACLU (in other words -- THE PEOPLE) has no standing to challenge Bush's illegal wiretapping. And you still think the judiciary is UNcorrupted? What planet are you living on? And, frankly, I don't base my opinions on John Dean's recent defeatism. I'm with most of the people here who favor impeachment. As for not yet having enough votes, that's you giving up. Three months ago, no one in Congress was willing to even utter the word "impeachment". Well, guess what? Things have changed, in case you hadn't noticed. Now there are Congresspeople not only mentioning it, but signing on to Kucinich's resolution to impeach Cheney (which is exactly the place to start). My congressman is one of them. The firestorm is brewing. I don't know where you live but here in Washington state we are ready and willing for impeachment. And then some. But then we're a very politically active and aware bunch.
This Congress has no hope of criminally indicting these devils so I really don't know where you get that from. It looks like maybe you're the one who needs to lay off the caffeine and quit throwing daggers at any and all who disagree with you.
Plus, your tirades are boring.
Paul in LA @ 107:
Indictments get trumped by pardons. Impeachment does not. Congress is in the midst of power politics pissing match with a hopelessly corrupt executive and bringing indictments is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Ruthless People @ 100:
The impeachment power has NEVER worked. And the reason is obvious -- it's a POLITICAL process in a POLITICAL body.
• The Founders hated political parties. They HOPED they would not develop. That was foolishness, because they developed within twenty years, and since that time the idea of impeachment has NEVER worked. It is founded on the wrong idea.
We need to bring back Independent Prosecutors. The R shut down that arrangement as soon as it had had been used for their purposes, but we need an INDEPENDENT check on political power in order to stop coups like the current one.
The Judicial Branch MUST be made to stand back up. And that process is WELL UNDERWAY.
Your disaffiliation and apocalyptic fears are blinding you to where we are in this. We are well into the END of Bushco. Heads up.
Paul in LA @ 111:
the Mo-Fo's got a packed Supreme Court, and he'll take this fight all the way there. Quite possibly he'll even try to play the, "I can't leave office during a pending investigation," routine. Welcome to W's empire.
Cafeenman,
I understand the frustration. I have written, called and emailed my congressman and got similar form letters back. I am going to keep it up until we get results. Write to the other congress members too. Some how, some way we will get the message across. If we don't do anything, we will get the same results we put out.
Paul in LA @ 111:
I hope you're right. By the way, I'm not a "lefty." I'm more conservative (real conservative - not a poser) then liberal. Probably would be classified as a moderate except that I take up with lefties because the current administration is corrupt in the extreme. So wingers call me lefty just because I'm right and they're wrong.
And my apocolyptic view is an optimistic one. It will probably be worse. I like post-apocolypse movies. I hope to have a telepathic dog.
No further proof is needed-although there is plenty-that this president is holding America hostage:by the throat.Americans desperately need to come to terms with this sad, dangerous reality and take prompt and aggressive measures to rid themselves of these lawless criminals.The time to act was yesterday.
Ron @ 114:
OK, letters it is. I have time to do that. And I can write a decent letter even though in my heart of hearts I know it's pointless. I'll do it anyway.
tbhull @ 110:
You are ahead of yourself by miles.
Indictments produce convictions. Convictions can be pardoned by the President, but they still produce TWO THINGS:
1. You will notice that Cheney's chief-of-staff is no longer on the job.
2. You will notice that the commutation caused a TSUNAMI of anger within the justice system and DoJ. That anger is political and practical. Everything gets harder for them, the more they piss off the bureaucracy and their associated constituency.
The military families have had it. The judiciary has had it. The Republican party has had it. The crimes are coming into evidence, daily. More and more of the people who can stall Bushco are in position to do so.
WE are in MUCH better shape than in 2003, when your paranoia got its marching orders.
DIAL IT BACK. Quit fearmongering.
Do you know What Happened Today? Check it out on www.bgctoday.com
(I have to step away. I'll come back and reply more later tonight.)
Last night on Bill Moyers Journal, John Nichols of The Nation Magazine said this to Bill: (great show by the way, get the podcast)
"You are making the mistake that too many people make. You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis. Don’t mistake the medicine for the decease. When you have constitutional crisis, the founders were very clear, you do not have to have a war, we don’t have to raise any army and go to Washington, we have procedures in place where we can sanction a president appropriately, do what needs to be done, up to the point of removing him from office and continue the Republic. So we’re not talking here about taking an axe to government, quite the opposite, we are talking about applying some necessary, strong, medicine that may cure, not merely the crisis of the moment but done right..." (cut off)
Paul in LA @ 118:
You will note this conviction took 4 years!
Caffeen Man - I would suggest not sending emails but writing letters to the representatives home (local) office. I also suggest calling them on the phone. Talking to a real person and expressing your views does make a difference. After awhile they have a hard time ignoring coinstituents tying up their phone lines. Plus, you're probably a much more articulate debater than the phone answerer in your rep's office.
'Nighty night. Have fun with the battle. We're going to the movies.
IMPEACH. IMPEACH. IMPEACH.
tbhull @ 122:
4 years even without having to overcome the executive privilege argument. This is not fear mongering this is about addressing the dem's fear to do what they were elected to do.
Gee, I don't spell so well when I'm in a hurry...
I have to respectfully disagree with Dean. I say let's see the supreme court get their hands bloody on this. If the supreme court allows the white house to stonewall on this, it will be the END of the republicans. It might be the end already. The only thing people resent congress for is not playing as dirty as those bastards, and for the republicans obstructing the people's will at every turn.
FreeDUMB @ 126:
This is not a repub or dem issue. I do not want any executive, our current idiot in chief or any dem/repub/other that gets elected in the future, to have an open door to abuse power so recklessly and so easily.
Kelly @ 74:
Impeachment may not work. We may have to physically extricate the bastards.
I hope the Democrats raise Hell starting monday about this
Sounds like no one WENT to Findlaw and read the last 4 paragraphs of the article.
You'll see a law not used since 1934 that can be Congress's remedy.....
Please read it!
crazylove @ 130:
Link please.
Otay @ 82:
Yeah, but...how many of them are convinced ideologues, and how many of them are simply unprincipled opportunists? I find it hard to believe that most of them won't just bend whichever way the wind is blowing.
I mean, seriously: do you really think Schlozman or Griffin actually believes in anything but power? Most of these "moles" will turn coats faster than you can blink.
It's time to storm the bastille, folks.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!"
--Camille Desmoulins
"A person came in and announced the taking of the Bastille, the governor of which is beheaded, a crowd carries his head in triumph through the city. Yesterday it was the fashion at Versailles not to believe there were any disturbances in Paris. I presume today's transactions will induce a conviction that all is not perfectly quiet."
--Gouverneur Morris, a framer of US Constitution, at the Royal Gardens of Versailles, July 14, 1789
"If I could have found 2,000 men filled with the anger that tore my heart, I would have placed myself at their head, stabbed Lafayette to death, burned the despot in his palace and impaled our odious representatives on their benches. When I proposed this to Robespierre, he listened to me in horror, paled and remained silent."
-- Jean-Paul Marat, L'ami du peuple.
"One must frighten those who govern; one must never frighten the people."
-- Antoine Saint-Just
Cafeenman@131, top 'o' this page sillyman!
Click on blue "Findlaw" next to Dean's picture.
crazylove @ 134:
LOL... alrighty then. (Seriously didn't see it.) :)
PROSECUTE BUSH, CHENEY AND ROVE FOR TREASON, IMPEACH ALL THE BASTARDS, THEN HAVE A HANGING.
OUTING AN AMERICAN SPY IS TREASON AND PUTTING OUR COUNTRY AT RISK IS TREASON. TREASON IS PUNISHABLE BY HANGING.
AJ Fan Says:
Impeachment may not work. We may have to physically extricate the bastards.
It could very well come to something like that, in which case I would expect things to turn really ugly.
Andrew, it's time to get out the pitchforks and head out. LIKE RIGHT NOW. What in the hell are people waiting for? It's only going to get worse and I expect them to install martial law eventually.
andrew @ 138:
It would be cool if it were like Ohio State except the "students" in this case are current white house occupants.
Cafeeman, did you write back to the officiously delusional passive-aggressive
MS Waite-Browne and tell her to fuck herself?
crazylove @ 141:
I wrote this (2007-06-28) and never heard back from her:
Dear Representative Brown-Waite,
Although I didn’t mention impeachment in my previous letter, I certainly feel it is a good idea. However, I think it’s a minor issue compared to the number of people who are suffering due to GOP policies.
Impeaching the President is not the same thing as continuing to allow our soldiers to be slaughtered in an unwinnable war against an enemy that nobody can identify.
In 2004 the people may or may not have given President Bush a mandate. That issue is irrelevent today in 2007. What is relevant is that most of the American people want this war over. They want our soldiers back home with their families. They want the extended tours of duty to end. They want the “backdoor draft” (soldiers not being allowed to ETS per their contract) to end as well.
Iraq won’t be stable until the Iraqi people want it stable. Historically people have proven again and again that they don’t respect or keep things that are given to them – particularly freedom. If they wanted it badly enough they would have been fighting their own war before we got there. President Bush has made a mess of that country and we may as well face the fact we can’t fix it. Nobody has an answer. “We’ll stand down when they stand up” is nothing more than empty rhetoric.
And I ask you this. Before we invaded the sovereign country of Iraq, they had a joke of an army, no air force to speak of, no navy and no WMD’s. They simply weren’t a threat to us. Now that we’ve devastated the country and they have even less, how on earth are they going to “follow us over here”?
Have you ever known people whose own lives were a train wreck but felt they were in a unique position to tell other people how to live their lives? Don’t you think we have enough problems in our own country that we should be solving instead of worrying about “saving” the Iraqi people from twisted men like Saddam?
Why is it that when foreigners need to be saved from someone we don’t like we’re happy to go over and do it, but when people in our own country need to saved we blame them as being lazy welfare cheats?
If you read my original letter again you’ll see that I wasn’t asking you to impeach the President. I was asking you to do your part to represent the people who elected you. Over 60% of us want this war over. I don’t know the poll numbers on people wanting the President and Vice-President out of office but their approval ratings are sending them a message they just aren’t getting. Just because they don’t get it doesn’t mean you have to not get it with them.
Very best regards,
CafeenMan
Cafeenman@142, wonderful, heartfelt letter. Probably didn't make a dent with her so guess she has to twist in the wind with the rest of 'em.
I'm pretty awful when I write letters after 7 years of doing it and have dropped the "respectfully" and just tell them to start worrying about their jobs at this point.
I don't use the word, "respectfully" unless it's true.
Excellent post.
Blogs like C&L and FireDogLake need to pressure the judiciary committees of the House and the Senate to push the balls down the court. They have to uphold our constitution. If they don't we're sunk.
Contempt citations for Sara Taylor and Harriett Miers.
Impeachment charges for Bush and Cheney.
Cafeenman, welllll I used that word until it felt like throwing a snowball into space. Such an exhausting thing but well worth it. Remember how sleepy Leahy was in '03, and how he leaned into the mic and said "I'm voting to go ahead with Iraq, (then) I hope I'm doing the right thing".
And here we are today. Leahy's wide awake. He's had LOTS of feedback and think that helped a great deal. I met him in Vt. when he was just starting out and he seemed so kind, such a doll. I have written those I thought would listen, and made them very personal like you.
The most effective and haunting letter is one like yours, that speaks with heart and direct experience.
We're finally sliding into Scary Time. "Finally" you say? Well, if Bush claims he can tell someone who isn't even still employed at the White House to sleep in for a congressional hearing, what won't he claim? What if the Supreme Court agrees with him? What are the chances then that if the Representatives voted for impeachment, Bush would say he's the Decider, he's a War President, they have an advisory capacity and he isn't going to soil his beautiful mind with their "politics"? Seems to me we're about one level of separation from Emperor and it's time to ask ourselves, "Who would the military follow?"
Bryan Carney @ 24:
Nope, I believe it's Miers's.
the gauntlet has been tossed, the dems were slapped in the face with the silk glove, the line in the sand has been drawn. the first showdown less than a month ago, left the dems cowering in the corner crying for mercy like a little be-atch. now the challenge has been issued again. will harriet miers be made to testify? will there be an attempt charge issued. hate to say it but my money's on the crime family. they've won at every juncture, why not keep it going.
I think from this point on, any emails, letters or phone calls to public officials will be IMPEACH NOW!
jack jett
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