AEI's Fred Kagan on FNS: Wankerrific!
By Nicole Belle Saturday Jul 14, 2007 3:45pm
This is the personification of the banality of evil. AEI's Frederick Kagan, one of the neo-con architects of Bush's surge policy goes on mouthpiece FNS to cheerlead for his failed strategy and to blandly spin out disinformation and lies to completely confuse the average FOX viewer from Levin's salient points earlier.
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Hume: A clear distinction is made by war critics between the operations against al Qaeda--targeted at al Qaeda-and what they describe as getting in the middle of a civil war and that presumably means their efforts to shut down the Shi'ite death squads and the other elements of sectarian violence, purely sectarian violence. What is your view of that distinction? And what percentage of the trouble that's now being noticed in Iraq is being caused by the one or the other?
Kagan: I don't think you can talk about percentages because people are trying to make a false dichotomy here. The reason why we have a civil war in Iraq, the reason why we have sectarian violence is because al Qaeda deliberately set out to create and foment sectarian violence. It was the bombing of the Samarra mosque in 2006, which set off this round of intense sectarian violence, which only began to drop again in January as the surge began. And al Qaeda's still at it. They went after the minarets of the Samarra mosque not that long ago. So al Qaeda, their whole strategy revolves around generating sectarian violence, because that's how they embed themselves in local communities in Iraq. The notion that we could somehow fight al Qaeda without concerning ourselves with sectarian violence completely misunderstands the realities on the ground. This isn't Afghanistan. These guys aren't living in big training camps in the middle of the desert, like they did in Afghanistan. They're mingling with the population and they're using sectarian violence to force the population to support them. If you don't stop that dynamic, then talking about fighting al Qaeda is just nonsensical.
Obviously, since the concept of being in the crossfire of a civil war isn't playing to the masses, the neo-cons need to insert al Qaeda in as much as possible, even though the Iraq Study Group (.pdf) clearly states that al Qaeda is responsible for only a small percentage of the violence, which does NOT include the Samarra mosque bombing, despite Kagan's assertions. Note how earlier he warns against assessing the success of the surge, since it's less than a month old and in this passage says that violence has dropped since the the beginning of the surge, in January. Talk about not understanding the realities on the ground...
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He looks like Peter Griffin. What does his bud Quagmire have to say about Iraq?
What is with all these neo-con putzes ?
You could scour the entire planet , and not find more white , effeminate 'males' , anywhere else .......
Dr. Squid @ 1:
Giggity.
Of course.
Meanwhile . . . . . . .
Kissinger-led U.S. group attends closed debate at Putin home.
Apart from Kissinger, the U.S. team includes former Secretary of State George Schultz; former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin; former Special Representative for Arms Control, Nonproliferation and Disarmament Ambassador Thomas Graham, Jr.; former Senator Sam Nunn; and Chevron Chairman and Chief Executive Officer David O'Reilly.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070713/68933469.html
Mamma don't let your son grow up yo be a neocon. Look at Kagan! YUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
Mike @ 5:
He's just a clown they waltz out to distract people from the men behind the curtain.
Not that looks matters but it seems to matter to Fox so why is this the best looking neocon they could find to read the script the white house has prepared?
This guy even has his own bobble-head doll --- oh, wait...
This guy's throwing a lot of deep BS around.
That's what it is a load of crap.
What makes him an expert on war and armies?
I'm shocked that he contradicted Kristol and admitted there is a civil war. Just another wee fissure in the armor Fox puts up.
The neoCONS that got little Bushie into the war should be in the dock with him at the International War Crimes Court in the Hague, Netherlands.
My only regret would be that the Europeans do not practice capital punishment.
Is 'wanker' the only word you know?
Suposedly I saw him on a blog recently. One of the commenters indicated he knew this guy and he is married to some hot network babe. That could not possibly be true. Maybe there is something to being a Nazi.
Ian - Patriot @ 12:
Jerk Off would be a bit harsh
exit7a @ 14:
That is an insult to all dead and decaying sperm everywhere.....
Frederick Kagan and his father Donald Kagan, who is a professor at Yale and a fellow at the Hudson Institute, together authored While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, and the Threat to Peace Today (2000). The book argued in favor of massive military spending and warned of future threats, including from a potential revival of Iraq's WMD program.[1] Frederick along with his brother Robert Kagan, who is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group, and their father Donald are all signatories to the neoconservative Project for the New American Century manifesto titled Rebuilding America's Defenses (2000).
Ian, quite trying to appropriate the term "patriot". The only appropriate term for you is 26%er.
Or rather the personification of the devil itself. If you have put Cheney next to Kagan, the soundtrack produced by the two, would most probably make your TV screens literally bleed.
"...completely confuse the average FOX viewer"? That's not hard at all. Hell I can do that in 3 notes.
What a snooty putz.
Even FAUX must realize how bad this guy comes across.
Ian - Patriot @ 12:
No, actually Ian, my vocabulary is quite extensive. I have some very appropriate and well-earned adjectives I could use to describe Kagan and the rest of you quagmire cheerleaders, but John has asked me not to use swear words in my posts.
These two fucktards (Kristol and Kagan) exemplify Hannah Arendt's thesis about the banality of evil; they masquerade as reflective, supposedly intelligent people while really they should just be back in caves hunting small game and trying to catch fish-and probably doing it very unsuccessfully. These people make my skin turn.
“The president must issue a personal call for young Americans to volunteer to fight in the decisive conflict of this generation.” . . . Fred Kagan
http://webpages.charter.net/micah/party.jpg
madmac @ 19:
In fact it has already been accomplished, years ago.
The eventual deprogramming is going to take quite a while, the cognitive dissonance will be deafening to the typical Fauxhead...
madmac @ 19:
Beat me to it.
It’s “all al Qaeda, al the time”.
Wonder if the sheeple will notice.
Probably not.
KAGAN = DOUCHEBAG
Obviously the president is this asshole's mouthpiece. Bush has been trotting out this same line of bullshit in begging for more time to let his surge continue.
Ian - Patriot @ 12:
Ian, would you prefer douchebag? Felcher? Actually,no again, those are grave insults to felchers and douchebags everywhere..
From This Land is Your Land
May 03, 2007
It's easy to confuse the typical under-informed xenophobic American who can't tell a Shia from a Sunni, and that's what they've set out to do.
The latest double-speak talking point polluting our airwaves conflates the organization al Qaeda in Iraq with the people who attacked us on 9/11.
There are several major problems with this assertion:
1. There was no such thing as al Qaeda in Iraq before, during, or after 9/11. There was no such thing until Bush decided to occupy Iraq indefinitely. Bush's actions created al Qaeda in Iraq and they continue to motivate its recruiting.
2. The vast majority of the violence in Iraq, some say as much as 95%, is from sectarian Iraqis vying for power, not foreigners in the form of al Qaeda.
3. The actual perpetrator of 9/11 and the leader of al Qaeda is still running around free between Afghanistan and Pakistan. As for his enthusiasm to pursue the people who attacked us, Bush has stated publicly on more than one occasion that he doesn't spend much time thinking about him.
4. When al Qaeda in Iraq was constituted, al-Zarqawi asserted independence from bin Laden, and only a loose relationship of convenience evolved thereafter. In fact, the name al Qaeda in Iraq was concocted by western media in collaboration with the military -- the true name of the organization is Organization for the Foundation of the Holy Struggle in Mesopotamia
This first out-and-out lie flows nicely into a second out-and-out lie: we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. Lately that's morphed into the claim that if we pull out, they'll follow us home, as if they were an ill-tempered little puppy we've abandoned along a country road. Meanwhile, out of the other side of their mouth, they're telling us all to hide under the dining room table because al Qaeda is everywhere. Therefore, they have to wiretap us and read our mail and hold us indefinitely without habeas corpus and whatever else they see fit to do.
At least this second assertion is grounded in reality: al Qaeda is already here. They've attacked Spain and Great Britain. Terrorism is up sharply since the occupation of Iraq. Organization for the Foundation of the Holy Struggle in Mesopotamia is a new faction created since the occupation, and has no effect whatsoever on any of their extant operations worldwide, save distract our own security forces to make their murderous plots easier to pull off.
Instead of the puppy-following-us-home fantasy, I would assert that Organization for the Foundation of the Holy Struggle in Mesopotamia is even more interested in how the Sunnis will fare now that Hussein is gone than they are in killing Americans. They're not going anywhere. If we were to pull out, eventually the Shia factions like the Madhi Army will wipe out the Sunni "al Qaeda in Iraq" with relentless persistence.
The question Americans must begin asking is: when will the Bush administration stop showering Osama bin Laden with gifts? And when will Bush and the elected representatives appearing on media outlets stop lying to us?
L.A. Confidential @ 6:
Mamma don't let your son hang out with a neocon!
Ron Paul: U.S. In "Great Danger" Of Staged Terror
Congressman & presidential candidate warns of economic collapse precipitated by bombing of Iran. The good shepherds are getting backed into the sheep dip! Danger Will Robinson!
Nicole Belle @ 21:
You go girl!
Kagan and Kristol -- two lumpenIntellectuals in iambic pentameter: is it a civil war or not.
Forget about it, Jake. It's only Georgetown.
Boing!
Sun Jul 15, 4:40 AM ET
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration said Saturday that senior advisers would recommend the president veto Senate legislation that would substantially increase funds for children's health insurance.
what are these conservative suffering from; is it lack of frontal lobes? Missing emotional center in the brain? Extreme fear of others? Are they socially inept? Is conservatism related to autism? And what the heck is with that double chin deal???????
I want proof of this alleged "Al Queda in Iraq", and I'm not taking it on faith. The Rethugs need to prove that Al Queda in Iraq exists, or they need to STFU and let us do the right thing.
Racist mercenaries from all over the world are deployed in Iraq. Who is to say whether one of those shadowy, for-profit entities blew up the Samarra mosque?
• And where did they get the high-explosives to do the job?
From George W. Bush and his criminal co-conspirator Ronald Dumbsfeld.
L.A. Confidential @ 16:
I hear the leaves turned in Aspen in the Fall of 1999. And you better remember, because otherwise it gets pretty damn cold in winter.
• I also heard from Sarah Taylor that she took a second oath (to the Conspirator-in-Chief), which she takes very seriously.
The War on Terror is a manufactured fraud. Complete and utter bullshit.
I refuse to watch any Faux programs which have Britt Hummmmmm on; but am
wondering..Does anyone knows if he corrected Kagan's knowling false statement that Al
Qaeda was responsible for the bombing of the Samarra Mosque????
Frederick Kagan, get to a recruiting office or the Green Zone to assist the Maliki government since you THINK know so much....
you may have all the book-learning but let's see you put it into action.
weenie
Doggiebobo @ 41:
Apparently he mispoke. He meant to say that Blackwater blew up the UN station in Basra.
It's easy to confuse Blackwater for Al Qaeda. They work for the same people.
What is the military background of Frederick Kagan? Anybody know? Another chickenhawk coward? Any sons or daughters of military age? Are they serving? If not, why not? Or is he, too, a coward, and just engaging in projection with this toughness act?
We need to investigate the above EVERY SINGLE TIME one of these neo-cons goes on camera.
OT: Why do they all have that plump, fat-baby, kinda wussy-like look? I really hate to label people like this, but these Rovian neo-cons all look alike!
Whenever a neo con talks about a terrorist, I find they are really talking about themselves. So when he says the terrorists set out to create and foment sectarian violence, that is all you need to know.
Bravo C & L!
The line about al Qaeda and their overall involvement in the violence is what hit me as well.
Every analysis available indicates that al Qaeda is only about 5-10% of the total violence in Iraq.
The stated re-surg-ance or increase of their participation is another strategy intended to rally our public.
There also has been a "surge" of bravado by the neocons who are emboldened by the steadfastness of the administration.
Sadly, our press is stiil MIA.
He we go folks. Yet another fat, pudgy, pasty, white conservative chickenhawk who has never picked up a rifle to defend this country yet is an expert in the affairs of war. Anybody see the pattern here?
L.A. Confidential @ 16:
War pimps - the whole bunch of 'em!
No. 46, can you define Al Qaeda?
Who is Al Qaeda? Please explain.
Where has it been shown that al Qaeda (or "al Qaeda in Iraq") was *not* responsible for the first Samarra bombing? As far as I know, nothing definitive has been said about the perpetrators of that attack except that they were wearing Iraqi Special Forces uniforms... The popular assumption is that it was al-Zarqawi's group, but you could probably make a case it was the Michigan Militia.
I think there are two more important counterpoints to be made to Kagan's argument, though.
The first is that there is no "al Qaeda". Not in the same way there's a US Army, or a McDonald's. When I think of Zarqawi's "al Qaeda in Iraq", I think of a kid living in small-town Iowa putting on a blue shirt and spraypainting "Crips" around his trailer park. In his case he got big enough that bin Laden's al Qaeda, or individuals associated with it, took notice and apparently offered some kind of support to him (although it's unclear whether it was anything more than a stamp of approval and some encouraging words -- my guess is they regarded him as a useful idiot but a waste of resources). Even so, it's a gross distortion to claim that this "al Qaeda" was in any meaningful way "the group that attacked us on 9/11". As far as the war in Iraq is concerned, al Qaeda is just a banner, which can be flown by anyone regardless of whether they have any operational connection with the Saudi-dominated group that's currently regrouping in the mountains of Pakistan.
Even if you did buy that they were one and the same, it is transparently clear that fighting them over there isn't doing a damn thing as far as preventing us from fighting them over here. Not only is the logic of this argument absurd on its face, it's clear that fighting them over there has in fact destroyed our ability to fight them over here. We can't even cope with a couple of tornadoes any more. In the meantime the vast majority of al Qaeda's fighters are being recruited from among our allies -- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and now even England. What's to prevent them from coming over here?
EZ @ 49:
Al-Queda is whoever Bush, Cheney and Lieberman say it is, which will be you if you don't quit questioning the Bush regime's policies.
people like this sack of shit make me ashamed to be an american. also the fundies who started screaming during the hindu prayer in congress the other day.
Mike @ 13:
Mike, I think I've figured out how it works. Kagan is part of the AEI and has access to all kinds of juicy insider tidbits; hot newsbabe needs stories so, from her perspective, banging Pugsley is just the cost of doing business. The minute Pugsley gets bounced from his gig at AEI, hot newsbabe goes on the stroll.
#11 "My only regret would be that the Europeans do not practice capital punishment."
Conservatives in this country like the Bush regime only support capital punishment for rank and file Americans like you and me, people of color, the underage, the underprivileged and the the mentally challenged. Not for themselves and their heinous crimes against humanity. their own war crimes and for their mass murder on a global scale.
Why in the world would anyone with a single functioning brain cell continue to believe the litny of outright lies these cretins manufacture daily. As P.T. Barnum once said, " No one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American Public."
Nicole Belle @ 21:
This reply as all your posts are, was pure gold, Nicole ;)
mo_dems @ 52:
The warmongering GOP, right wing terrorist bombers like Tim McVeigh and the Christianista fundies pose as great a threat to this nation as Al-Queda, if not greater. They are basically two sides of the same coin.
Oh my God, Al Quesadilla is Bush, Cheney and Lieberman! Tortilla soup and Allah!! More bullshit, just like Vietnam; if we withdraw now... (Insert bullshit here)! Al Qaeda might have been dealt a mighty blow by the killing of Osama bin Laden. It was Chimpy's and Darth Cheney's responsibility to do that and they not only failed but they brought the US into the largest military blunder ever. That's got to say something! Give those two the Congressional Medal of Honor! Right after Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and their repug constituency stop sucking their dicks for a minute or two. Oh, I forgot. We have to work with the system we have. Please Madam Speaker and whatever you are now Harry Reid, please stop blowing the president and the vice from now on, it's really embarrassing! Besides, that's the Supreme courts' job now!
From the AEI web site:
"A military historian who has taught at West Point, AEI resident scholar Frederick Kagan specializes in defense issues and the American military. In particular he studies defense transformation, the defense budget, and defense strategy and warfare. He has also written about Russian and European military history."
So basically his expertise comes from reading about war; he's never actually bothered to experience it first-hand.
Yet another fat, pudgy, pasty, white conservative chickenhawk who has never picked up a rifle to defend this country yet is an expert in the affairs of war.
You would be correct, sir.
I've never seen a repug call Lincoln a coward and defeat-o-crat. According to this man, who claims to channel the spirit of Abe, Lincoln always thought the south was going to win. So does that mean that that chimpy, who has always said the US will win, is wrong like Abe? Please part the waters of time oh oracle, tell us the future and the past you wise sage. While you're at it, tell us why those 95,000 democratic voters were incorrectly purged from Florida's voting lists in 1999. All knowing all seeing Fred, please open the portals of the universe and tell us how much blow and cheap hookers GW was doing in Alabama when he was AWOL from the Texas Air Guard that his daddy bought him into.
We have so many questions, and so few answers oh Omnipotent Kegan. We are not worthy!
Just another right wing hack on another right wing propaganda show. Who really expects anything different?
Imagine being with this Sack of shit, Rove, Cheney and Coulter in a room, trying to make a discussion while they play with their 9mm handguns. Now imagine yourself in a room with Osama.
Question:
1/ Would you leave room #1 alive
2/ Would you leave room #2 alive
3/ Would you be allowed to talk in room #1, express you ideas and hear the counterarguments
4/ Would you be allowed to talk in room #2, express you ideas and hear the counterarguments
If you think the correct scenarios would be #2 and #4, there may actually still be hope for this country.
All you need to imagine is the Harry Whittington's perspective while he was slowly falling down after being shot by Cheney, that sudden pain and shake of the head and then that still, blurry image of the vice president aiming at ya as you look up from the ground and wonder, WTF was that for you evil bastard?
Where does he get that accent? It doesn't sound entirely American.
w listens to the AEI who started this mess.
He should listen to the NIE analysts.
L.A. Confidential @ 16:
Precisely. Brit Hume kept asking him "what do you see [in Iraq]?" What does HE see??? Finger pastries! Fred Kagan has never been anywhere near Iraq! Or any war! Or sunlight, for that matter. Fred Kagan lives in a world his daddy invented, much like Star Trek fans who speak Klingon.
I hate these cocksuckers so much, I don't believe any option should be taken off the table to rid our Country of this scourge. We have all become involved in this crime(much like the German citizens of WW2), therefore allowing our ultimate demise at the hands of evil. If not from the Muslim Extremists(or Christian), then from Global Warming and the extinction[s] that will follow. It's a sad testament of us to our offspring. Those that are left that is.
[...] House Link to Article iraq AEI’s Fred Kagan on FNS: Wankerrific! » Posted at Crooks and Liars on [...]
I too was wondering this and would like to see this question addressed.
The mind boggles. Is Faux Noise the only source of information these 30%ers access? What is the make-up of them? Are they all under-educated southern hicks? Surely lots of them are intelligent(lawyers and such)? Does the christianity of these clever people cloud their logical faculties?
Maybe if you could point me to a break-down of their makeup - it's simultaneously fascinating, shocking and depressing. I'm from Europe by the way so I've no first hand experience of this "homo-neocon-us" species.
this asshole has been nursing on cheney's tits.
he has never had an original thought of his own........
Aaaaahhhhhhhh! the Racist Nazis Committee (RNC) working hand in hand with the FASCIST NEOCONS. DUH! we have Al Queada because the RNC and this Administration is derelict in there duties.
Understanding FASCIST NEOCONS are IGNORANT as shown in this interview that ONLY a RACIST NAZIS COMMITTEE (RNC) or a FASCIST NEOCON would believe. Lets start the IMPEACHMENT and get it over with.
69: this asshole has been nursing on cheney’s tits.
Gold!!
C'mon, this is just a John Lovitz character--right?
How can we fix this country when even if we can get rid of Bush/Cheney, all the machinery that put them in power and keeps them there will still be there. So much has to change before we can move foreward as a nation.
Why is it that all Faux Noise Rethugs. are uneducated, fat pigs?
Dear Kagan:
Grab your kids and all your family members and go fight the war that you so love. While your at it, gather your neocon buddies and have them join the fight. Until you have the guts to do the fighting yourself, your opinions are meaningless and your criticism of the antiwar crowd is "nonsensical" ( a word he seems to love using).
Take care now-watch for those IEDs.
Sincerely, Me
THAT's Fred Kagan??? Ohmygod, he looks like a wax Peep. Jesus.Wept.
Freddy Kagan's almost as fat as Jonah Goldberg, one half of the D.C. paper couple of Saddam and Gavora.
He and that fat jerk who verbally attacked Cindy Sheehan on camera the other day (the one who kept saying, "I'm too old, I'm 32, but if George Bush says he needs me, sure I'll go to Iraq" ought to sign up together. Shit.
I wish that the progressives would take Army recruiters with them to protests so that could tell these bastards, on camera, sign up or shut up.
Are all of these neocon laptop warriors just pseudo-intellectual dweebs? From Kristol to Kagan to Graham, a bunch of sniveling effeminate prude and proper armchair warriors. Can't the neocons find someone of the stature of a Stormin' Norman to represent them?
just wow. the 'news' on today is ripe with utter bullshit. someone is scared....
Just how difficult is it to confuse the average Fox News watcher???? I'm just saying....
Read somewhere today on internet (can't remember where) that the makeup of the insurgents coming into Iraq are from... wait for it.... SAUDI ARABIA! (45%) Our good buddies the Saudis! Rest from other places BUT NOT Iran.
Also, read at McClatchy that the US military command in Iraq issued memo ordering soilders to wear flak vests & helmuts inside the GREEN ZONE! Maybe somebody should tell these bozos so they can see just how well the surge is going!
And lets not forget that Kagen is one of the authors for this new "surge" strategy in Iraq. I remember reading it when it was posted on AEI and my first response was: "Now watch old noodle brain Bush choose this as his strategy." Sure enough, Bush went right back to the no nothing neocons. Unfortunately, our troops and the Iraqis are paying the price.
K. Signal Eingang @ 50:
Is there no one who can back this up with some evidence? Nicole?
The operational principle of neoconservatism is the big lie, taken pure and unalloyed from Mein Kampf.
This guy reminds me of Bill Hick's "sucking satan's cock" bit.
Hello, Mr. Yale PhD in wankology! "If you asked Lincoln...," you say, playing 'REALLY Bad Analogies' from a cabal that has denied there is a Civil War in Iraq, Lincoln would tell you, 'After as long a Bush has had, our Civil War was OVER!' But thanks for playing, now go back to your sandbox and skull and bones.
All these fucking evil bastards should be rounded up [deleted]
Please don't advocate violence here.
sulphurdunn @ 86:
They also combine it with the idea of an elite vanguard. Now who better to promote democracy than an amalgam of Lenin and Goebbles.
Their ideology has failed and now they are making the rounds in media. But the thing is they don't think its a failure.
William Kristol has a front page op-ed in the Washington Post today saying that the Bush Presidency is a complete success.
Watch them point out that there "surge" is a success because sectarian violence has slowed.
Well the reason it has slowed is because the Iraqis from both sides are jumping ship and leaving Baghdad and Iraq by the thousands - self-imposed ethnic cleansing.
Wow, this Kagen dude is REALLY knowledgable!! I'll bet he has a VERY LONG and distinguished military career himself... probably served in MANY wars... a TRUE patriot!
I realize it's a bit late in the thread to chime in, and that I'll merely be echoing others' comments, but I can't help myself. Was that guy for real? Where does this species of cartoon character breed? Seriously, there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of pasty, pudgy sociopaths whose maddeningly emotionless and piss-poor academic analysis always yields a pseudo-intellectual version of "Go America! Rah!" If someone can locate their nest, let's round them up, and send them to fight the war. They're so proud of their armchair imperialism no matter the scope of the latest disaster, so let's put them in makeshift body armor, and send them out to step on IEDs, and bring them back to what's left of Walter Reed.
If nothing else, these people have at least demonstrated to me that my own sense of outrage suffers from no fatigue. At the very least, I haven't yet thrown my own hands up, and said "Oh, fuck it!" And I thank all the blogs for continuing to battle against these "wankers" every day.
Oh, and.......
Ian - Patriot @ 12:
Well, yeah. That's why the whole post read, "Wanker. Wanker wanker wanker, wanker wanker."
I dunno, Nicole. I wouldn't mind a swear word or two in place of "wanker" if it would shut the likes of Ian up. :) (I know, I know. It wouldn't.)
It's hiliarious that Faux News flashed Yale under this guys name to give him credibility. John Stossel went to Princeton, big whoop, he's still an idiot. GWB went to Yale and Harvard, and he is barely above-average.
Brit Hume definitely sounds drunk. Must be hard times for neo-cons.
when was the last time a liberal thinker or even a main stream Dem was "allowed" to talk for that long WITHOUT INTERRUPTION on the MSM????????
The part in quotes seems pretty accurate to me. It was al-qaeda's strategy to ignite sectarian violence. The part that doesnt inspire me with confidence is he seems to think the US can put a stop to it at this point. The iraqis will need to do that, they are the ones drilling holes in each others heads.
There's a Saddam necktie with Kagan's name on it. These AEI propagandists will pay a heavy price as America wakes up.
He keeps saying "We" who the fuck is this guy , and who the fuck asked for him to share his ideas on this war?
Nobody has proven to me that Al Quaida even exists. I certainly am not going to accept anything from this fetid piece of shrink wrapped chicken lard. These are the people who started this war. They will not relent. Its not their kids getting killed. They don't give a fuck about the lives of Iraqis. To them it's all a big game of strategy and fellowships at right wing stink tanks. These people should never ever be given positions of power. If there was justice these people would swinging by their necks in the breeze.
Quid Pro Quo To Go @ 59:
Correct in the extreme. He's the anti-War Nerd. Gary Brecher reads and writes about war, too, but he damn sure wouldn't contemplate sending other people into this bloody mess. For Kagan to ask Bush to "issue a personal call for young Americans to volunteer to fight in the decisive conflict of this generation" while he sits at home on his fat fellowship is obscene.
I read this PowerPoint Ranger's "Choosing Victory" presentation when it came out. What a crock. It depends on a much larger army than we have, but he says we can have that larger army, "if we begin recruiting immediately" (p. 44). It hardly seems worth pointing out that recruiting is a continuous enterprise.
A wise man wrote of "Choosing Victory" at the time, "This pile of fewmets is only a sales pitch, and a bad one at that. It could only be sold to a man who is so desperate to be proven right, one so deeply rooted in blind faith and American exceptionalism, that he'd grasp at it. We're screwed."
Hmmm. Hand-typing html not allowed?
War Nerd.
"Choosing Victory".
[It's 'allowed.' I'm not quite sure what it is you are talking about-Sitemonitor]
The Sammara Mosque was blown up by the U.S, Just as the the holy shrine of capitalism the WTC was.
peacemonger @ 102:
Rather than use the "link" feature, I hand-typed the commands -
D'oh! I typed out part of an html command in #103, and all subsequent characters disappeared. sjones at igc dot org if you wish to pursue this. Sorry for trashing up the thread.
Giggidy @ 85:
Go to www.latimes.com. I was kinda hoping this one would make the rounds. It's sorta', you know, important. The Saudis are reeking more havoc than the Iranians in Iraq...whoda' thunk.
Poo, that was for comment #82. Sorry.
Well it doesn't take much to see throught he new frame, does it. There is no civil war, but Al Qaida is the organization behind it. Basically any excuse that allows the bloodshed to continue until there is no further resistance to the privatization of everything not nailed to the planet.
Strawberry @106:
That link just took me to the main page of the LA Times. Am I missing something?
Peacemonger @ 100,101,104...
Whoo-hoo, another War Nerd fan! More people need to read his stuff, it's exactly the kind of realistic, unsentimental (but entertaining) analysis of modern war I'd like to see more of on both sides of the aisle. Here's one that's held up well, and on topic, too: http://www.exile.ru/2006-April-07/war_nerd.html
Did Al Queda foment sectarian violence or did John Negroponte? Either way our tax dollars are now funding it.
Fagan, "There is reason to believe that success is still possible".
How many "Surges" have we done?
He says its too early to tell how things are going but also states things are going swell in Iraq.
Buying time while soldiers die?
This is not like we have just invaded last year. What needs to be faced is that Bush is not a War President. Maybe a President that thinks he can win an occupation.
There are more Al Qaida in Afghanistan and Pakistan than in Iraq. Al Qaida is not a high priority viable enemy in Iraq as they say.
Most of all, Fagan is somewhat right about the local Iraqi's harboring the insurgents, militants, Al Qaida, etc.
What Fagan refuses to understand, is that for years now the Iraqi's have harbored these violent people and they feel it is OK to kill Americans.
I think Fagan should be sent to Iraq to explain his strategies to the Iraqi's and our military. He should be driving the "road side bomb" stretch between the green zone and the airport every day to implement his position firmly.
well lets see this "expert" is funded by ExxonMobile at AEI than promoted by Murdoch's fox. We have traitors who don't care about us or country.
.I'd ask this tool ONE simple question (not that I'd expect an honest answer in return) which would be: Can you HONESTLY envision peace and harmony between Shiites, Sunnis, Muslims and ANYBODY ELSE that got into Iraq, WITHOUT an iron fist, a dictator violently keeping everyone in check?
If the honest answer is "no" then why should we waste another life, dollar or minute there?
I hope everyone here knows that American Enterprise Institute is a Republican propaganda organization!
Does this guy think he's a military strategist?! There is nothing as assuring as the smug smirk from a guy (with a pocket full of twinkies) that this administration is in the 'right'.. It makes my blood boil to think the media would be so bold as to dumb us down with this rhetoric. Remember Alex Jones: the ONLY way the right will be accepted by the people of this country is if they/we are conned into believing we have been attacked by terrorists again. Look for something BIG by October (of THIS year). The republicans will blame the 'laxness' of the original Patriot Act that has been threatened by numerous civil liberties group. I think we can all agree that we no longer live in a Democracy, and only the PEOPLE can take the power back. NOT THE SHEEPLE!! GO RON PAUL!!!
surge, it a word, that means nothing.
Day-um, these neocons are a homely, pasty, flabby bunch!
About 99% of restaurants I walk into have Fox News on the teevees. I am sick and tired of it. Supposedly, people are waking up but then when I see that, I wonder. They don't yet realize Fox News is the administration's propaganda network? I want to walk up to the proprietor and say, "Do you realize that 70% of Americans don't buy this sh*t anymore? Please change to channel."
Kagan engages in typical revisionism. Sectarian tensions existed before we even invaded, and the insurgency was in full swing before the end of 2003! It didn't start in 2006, and was not "instigated" by al Qaeda!
Yet again, Fox News and the Bush White House prefer to have "experts" who refuse to describe reality with any accuracy.
Shorter Kagan: "And I would have created a flourishing democracy in Iraq with privately-owned oil, too, if it weren't for you kids and your damn dog!"
"...The reason why we have a civil war in Iraq, the reason why we have sectarian violence is because al Qaeda deliberately set out to create and foment sectarian violence..."
That much is true. IMO the Bush administration did set out to create civil war in Iraq. It saves us so much trouble when Iraqi's fight and kill each other.
It is the same tactic without the killing, so far, that they use on the American people: Divide and Conquer.
They push issues that divide us to keep us bickering amongst ourselves so we don't focus on our common enemy: this government, their cronies, the MIC, international banks and big business.
It's called Fascism; get off the couch or get used to it.
Fred "Milkboy" Kagan talks about killing people like it was getting the most for his money at the grocery store.
At the time of Vietnam a commentator would at least taken some time out to demonize the people we are trying to kill. This is dehumanization taken to a whole new level: We just "take them out" to "reverse some trends" and don't worry about it.
It's all science, kids!
Why watch Fox. You can go to the zoo and see two monkeys jerk each other.
Fox news,PNAC and this administration are a bigger recruitment tool for al quaida than anything else.They keep them alive and in front of the public inflaming and deceiving with their war mongering rightard misinformation.
[...] a text book example of how to avoid reality, demonstrated by Surge godfather, Fred Kagan. Having soft ball questions [...]
I'd really like to see some documentation that shows al Qaeda or "al Qaeda in Iraq" was NOT responsible for the Samarra mosque bombing.
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