hillary clinton 9/11 project, the medium is the massage. the successor to politics will be propaganda. propaganda, not in the sense of a message or ideology, but as the impact of the whole technology of the times.* --- Marshall McLuhan

Not everyone needs to agree with tammy faye ... it was her husband that was the rat. She will be missed.

For those who may have missed it, the official Bush White House & RNC approved list of Republican talking points on Iraq has gotten a bit of a make-over in the past few days.

For the full list of the latest GOP approved Iraq falsehoods, smears and hallucinations, see:
"The Official Republican Iraq Talking Points."

RIP Tammy Faye

> ... it was her husband that was the rat. ...

When he was in power, they were a team. May she RIP anyway.

I can't explain why we as gay men we so taken with this woman.

However, we were.

I feel sadness from the two kids.

I don't believe in heaven and hell, but if there is a heven, she is there.

And if there is a hell, Falwell is there getting a hand job from
Dahmer.

Jack Jett
www.jackejett.com

I dislike Family Guy (I just can't find it funny), but that was a good one :)

Oddly, I was once called to jury duty in San Rafael and Pete Wilson was there with his lawyer. They spent the whole time laughing and cracking jokes (all 15 minutes of it) until the clerk finally figured out who he was. They exchanged a few words and the two were in the parking lot be for the door clicked shut.

As a former Bay Arean, I say he shall be missed.

I'm finding it difficult to understand the reactions toward Tammy Faye here. She along with her husband swindled many hundreds of millions of dollars from people, some of whom couldn't afford to give up anything, under the guise of 'saving their souls', just so Jim and Tammy could live lavish, care-free lives. IMO, she was as disgusting and vile as her husband.

Jack Jett @ 12, as a gay man myself, I could never understand the phenomenon you're describing. I never understood how gay men could be so duped into liking this woman. Except perhaps for the fact that she was the ultimate drag queen, she had nothing to offer the community.

Tammi Faye Bakker was associated through marriage with an ugly Jesus swindle for a long time, and I am not in any position to really know the degree of her culpability. I think it is certainly possible she was as dumb as she seems, then again maybe not.

One thing I know for sure, though.

Larry King is a ghoul.

2x
I hate to call it short attention spans but we have some really good examples. Vietnam wasn't that long ago and a lot of people voted for the war mongers. McCain helped steal money from people's grandmothers and he is in the senate with people saying he has character.

Oh, and as for what she offered the gay community, she co-hosted a show with Jim J. Bullock. Although she didn't know he was gay until one frightful episode involving a zucchini. True, all true.

2x @ 19:

I'm finding it difficult to understand the reactions toward Tammy Faye here. She along with her husband swindled many hundreds of millions of dollars from people, some of whom couldn't afford to give up anything, under the guise of 'saving their souls', just so Jim and Tammy could live lavish, care-free lives. IMO, she was as disgusting and vile as her husband.

Jack Jett @ 12, as a gay man myself, I could never understand the phenomenon you're describing. I never understood how gay men could be so duped into liking this woman. Except perhaps for the fact that she was the ultimate drag queen, she had nothing to offer the community.

This is why I have no faith in America. People are vilified (deservedly) but when they die all of the sudden it's absolutely wrong to be happy about it. The same people who were vilifying scumbags when they were alive act as if they never did that when the person dies.

That said I couldn't care less about Tammy Faye one way or the other. She stole money from stupid people who believe the in the supernatural. Oh well.

RIP, Pete Wilson.

I loved his radio show. He was one of those rare individuals with whom you could vehemently disagree with at times but always, always hold in the highest regard. I respected his point of view and enjoyed very much listening to him articulate the issues of the day in a way that was neither preachy nor tired. He was also an excellent news anchor who had that Cronkite-esq demeanor about him that just ooozed trustworthiness.

God's speed, Pete.

Brendan

Pete Wilson's death did not happen. He's very alive, very healthy. Later reports by good reporters...Pete Wilson is still alive and in fine shape.

[They're talking about Governor Pete Wilson. This is the San Francisco anchor, Pete Wilson. Try the link. It's informative-Sitemonitor]

I think it's a mistake to assume Tammy Faye had anything to do with the misdeeds of her former husband. Like others here, I became a fan of Tammy Faye after seeing "The Eyes of Tammy Faye." She was a good woman that raised a son who is doing good work today. May she rest in peace.

BAC

CafeenMan @ 27:

2x @ 19:

I'm finding it difficult to understand the reactions toward Tammy Faye here. She along with her husband swindled many hundreds of millions of dollars from people, some of whom couldn't afford to give up anything, under the guise of 'saving their souls', just so Jim and Tammy could live lavish, care-free lives. IMO, she was as disgusting and vile as her husband.

Jack Jett @ 12, as a gay man myself, I could never understand the phenomenon you're describing. I never understood how gay men could be so duped into liking this woman. Except perhaps for the fact that she was the ultimate drag queen, she had nothing to offer the community.

This is why I have no faith in America. People are vilified (deservedly) but when they die all of the sudden it's absolutely wrong to be happy about it. The same people who were vilifying scumbags when they were alive act as if they never did that when the person dies.

That said I couldn't care less about Tammy Faye one way or the other. She stole money from stupid people who believe the in the supernatural. Oh well.

A couple of things. First, I understand what you're saying, in this case however, Tammy was 'forgiven' if you will, long before her death. I don't understand how or why, but she was. She went on to some minor degree of celebrity status which was not associated with the ministry that she and Jim ran, although that was still the origins of it.

Second, while I agree that the people who gave them money were what I'd call 'stupid', that's just too simple. Every single one of us is susceptible to one scam or another. If you clearly see through scam A, you might be fooled by scam B. Many of the people who donated money were taught from their birth to believe in the mythology being used by Jim and Tammy. Many of these people were sick and / or old, weren't going to take any chances and were hedging their bets so to speak. Also, I partially blame the failing American school system, which, at least from my experience, doesn't teach people how to reason or to think for themselves, but simply to pass tests. If they knew better how to reason, fewer of them would have fallen for their scams.

BAC @ 33:

I think it's a mistake to assume Tammy Faye had anything to do with the misdeeds of her former husband. Like others here, I became a fan of Tammy Faye after seeing "The Eyes of Tammy Faye." She was a good woman that raised a son who is doing good work today. May she rest in peace.

BAC

I haven't seen the film, so I can't comment or base my opinion on anything in it. What I remember is the TV show. Her constant forced crying, producing the trademark running makeup which she left on her face in order to demonstrate her 'heartfelt love' for people. I remember their constant begging for money. I remember how she dressed, the clothes and the jewels. I remember seeing pictures of her home, the cars, the planes. Long before they (he) was caught doing illegal things, I knew it was all a scam. I think that what they were doing was the equivalent of stealing money from poor people, and yes, she was in on that.

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't mean to imply that I think she was any worse than the rest of them, including the Catholic church in general. There is more wealth behind the walls of Rome...

I too don't understand these "nice feelings" for T Faye.

So after a few " how does it feel" questions , Novak admits on air, he and Russert have been
"drinking buddies", these people make me wanna puke. I wish while Russert was pimping Novak new book, he would remind everybody ,"I'm no journalist" just a lapdog for conservative infotainers.

Tammy's message in her last days was beautiful. I'm not judging you Tammy. May you find peace.

jack jett @ 12:

And if there is a hell, Falwell is there getting a hand job from
Dahmer.

I heard they had a lunch date; Dahmer gave him the cold shoulder.

I ridiculed Tammy Faye back in the 80's. The mascara, the tears, the scandal. But, she wasn't indicted in the scandal. My opinion of her over the years slowly changed. Maybe if I'd been one who lost money to PTL, I'd feel differently. I would hate for people to judge me on only one part of my life.

Cancer robs you of everything that it can, but her faith held steady and her courage never wavered. And on top of it all, she was able to maintain a sense of humor. If I'm ever in that situation, I hope that I can handle it as well.

RIP Tammy Faye.

Gee....I'm so glad we got to have this little chat about Tammy Faye and 'The Family Guy' but...

You might wanna visit the reality zone for a little tune up in yer perspective.

But...

Then maybe you're happier this way.

I'm not that's fer damn sure.

I have had cancer and since then I have said you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy whenever I am asked about it. The fact is we have a plague in this country and it's called cancer.

Right now, within my circle of family and friends or friends of friends 6 people have various forms of cancer.

But of course, we don't know what causes cancer right?

Cancer is also rife in my family.
Cancer comes in many forms, however.

One of them is religion.

"I can’t say that I was a fan of Tammy Faye’s religious career, but I did grow to be fond of her after The Eyes of Tammy Faye and the docu-series One Punk Under God. The ravages of cancer made her final appearance on The Larry King Show this week just heartbreaking."

One less con artist.

Whatever her sins...

TO err is human to forgive is devine.

Whatever she did...the hell she was going through at the end of her life was horrible.

how does the live chat work?
can some1 please explain how i can watch/listen to Michael moore's live chat today? thanks

Jesse @ 56:

Am I the only one who watched the Bill Maher special? It was pretty damn good. One of my favorites, regarding Gen. Peter Pace saying he didn't want homosexuals in the military because it's "immoral":

"Yeah? Well, maybe so... but at least they know when to pull out of a shithole!"

Hahahaha, I missed that!

Good riddens Tammy Faye. Jim got off easy, serving only 5 years of a 45 year sentence. Does anyone remember Arsinio's countdown?

Whew. Some stone-cold hearts here tonight.

Tammy Faye was many things in her life, most of which were very wrong and she suffered because of them. The end to her life was hellish and courageous and defined grace.

Rest In Peace, Sister

Thanks for remembering her in this post.

Happy Birthday, pete592

I agree with you about Al Gore. His daughter said today that he will not enter the race. It feels like hope is gone.

Shame about Pete, I grew up watching him.

Tammy, not so much. Say what you will about how she redeemed herself, I didn't see her writing a million little checks and sending them back to the people she and Jim scammed.
She was a wretched excuse for a human and got the death she so richly worked towards.

My only comfort is that in the end we are all atheists, and that Tammy has learned that lesson. May she treat the worms better than she treated her audience.

btw...pete died from a heart attack during hip replacement surgery

and he was only 62

Let's not judge people by one itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny mistake. Like, you know, a child molester; if he or she does it only a FEW times--only ruins a FEW lives--really, what's the harm? Can't we just forgive and forget? Especially if her makeup-based freakshow is an icon of the display-homosexual community? I'm sure it was all her husband's fault, and she had NO idea what was going on for years as she helped him sell senior-citizen suckers condos in heaven.

Seriously, I have all the sympathy for Tammy Faye Bakker (oh, that's right, when she changed her name she became a totally new person) as I did for Jerry Falwell. Sure, she got cancer and withered away; wah. That and worse happens to better people every damn day; save your tears. (Say, I wonder if Pat Robertson has any pithy reasons for God to strike her down?)

Hey, Family Guy! Is this the clip where George Jetson murders his wife for being a money-grubbing whore? Man, that's a funny, funny show, and I can certainly see why so many "progressives" dig its wife-beater humor...all sarcasm aside: I am NOT surprised that this is a Nicole Belle thread.

Elections are held in Turkey today

some1 @ 59:

how does the live chat work?
can some1 please explain how i can watch/listen to Michael moore's live chat today? thanks

Seems to me there will be a thread (a blog entry, like this one) and you can post in it. And Michael Moore will answer/reply to questions in the thread.

Messner ended up looking like what she was. If there were a 'god', and 'he' ('she', 'it') were just, she'd have gone to hell a long time ago, before she conned the gullible out of their first dollar in 'his' name.

Unless, of course, 'he' sent her here to show us 'he' doesn't exist.

R.I.P Tammy Faye

That clip was one of the greatest I ever saw. Dick Cheney, Chairman of Halliburton, shot Justice Scalia, and the bullet killed Rove and Tucker. YES!!!!!! But wait, what ever happened to Bushie? Did he ever get that much-needed Zoloft prescription?!?! Or did he lead a life of crime only decipherable to kindergartners?!?!

*sigh* The world may never know.....

The Champ is out.

ellen @ 10:

Is there any way you can get that Family Guy clip in a downloadable format so I can show my government students? It is fabulous..............

Try this;
http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php

Family Guy really isn't funny, is it?

a person @ 75:

some1 @ 59:

how does the live chat work?
can some1 please explain how i can watch/listen to Michael moore's live chat today? thanks

Seems to me there will be a thread (a blog entry, like this one) and you can post in it. And Michael Moore will answer/reply to questions in the thread.

thank you appreciate your response.

If I miss the live chat with moore, this is what I really would like every american to know:

the HMO's are truly for profit and as you know best, they hide behind the "non for profit" title.
I have looked up a few of them:

http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/910/910511770/910511770_20041...

http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/941/941552887/941552887_...

http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/941/941340523/941340523_...

you can look up any of these so called non for profit organizations on this site:

http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/

and do not be shocked to see the level of their CEO compensation, they work really hard to deny care and maximize profit.

and I hope you watch this interview, just one doctor's nightmare:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/21/1444235&mode=thread&...

Screw LArry King for exploiting that poor lady. I am currently an Agnostic myself, but that old broad was a damn inspiration, and a shining example of the good and positive qualities of Faith.

I've always hated "Family Guy" - thought it was "The Simpsons" with ADHD.

this was Hilarious and sad at the same time.

klunk @ 44:

EconAtheist @ 39:

I too don't understand these "nice feelings" for T Faye.

I think, for the most part, she was not an overtly despicable personality openly spreading hatred like Fallwell... Having lived a life that was built on the backs of desperately superstitious dupes, she was certainly no angel, but I think she was sincere in her beliefs and that is what I think people are responding to... That, along with a stark visual of the ravages of cancer brings out the best in people whom are evolved enough to experience empathy.

In my case, I felt pleasure that Fallwell has finally "fallen to hell", but for Tammy Faye, only pity... He was a cancerous and hate-mongering blight on this earth (and we're all better off without him) whereas she at least (as far as I'm aware) didn't openly denigrate those that didn't fit whatever preconceptions she may have had for what constitutes a "good Christian"...

I guess I can understand feeling that way... and I guess, well, I just don't; I can't get the lingering doubt about her heart-of-hearts character out of my mind.

If there is a heaven Tammy is not there. OMG. RIP no way. She is no different than any of the other charlatans that she ran with. When someone dies and they have lived a deplorable existence by taking advantage of others is not the time to morn. It is a time to celebrate. What a joke that people can get a pass no matter how much she and others claim they have changed. People are still suffering today due to the choices Tammy made during her life.

I hope you guys see her sometime on old "Surrel Life" reruns on VH1 with her or find them on the internet to watch. She was pretty cool on there and the few times she was on "One Punk Under God."

Damn you Family Guy, thanks a lot for that vision of a hopeful future, now I'm going to have to watch hours of Faux News to extricate it from my mind.

RIP to Tammy Faye.
She was the first evangelist to do work to help AIDS patients in the 80's back when only gay men seemed to care. She also spent a lot of her time promoting the MCC churches and helping bring them to national attention.

She said in an interview once when asked if she liked gays that of course she did. When asked about gay being a sin, her response was basically so what if it is. If you read the bible we are all sinners so what is the big deal.

Her message in the last 2 decades of her life was to love one another and not judge.

By most of the post here, many of you obviously missed that message.

Many of these comments about Tammy Faye are very disturbing to read. They evidence something fundamentally and wrenchingly wrong with the thinking of this country. When did we become so superficial, so ignorant of facts, so judgmental, so ready to condemn, so withholding of forgiveness and acceptance, so devoid of compassion, so satisfied at another's suffering?

I'm a former Bay Area resident and tho I was never a big Pete Wilson fan, I'm shocked to hear of his sudden passing. Shows you how fleeting life can be. Condolences to his family and friends.

Just Me @ 38:

Tammy Faye Messner was one of the most courageous women I've ever seen.

To go on Larry King the day before she died, looking the way she looked, we were touched to tears by her grace and spirit.

Yeah, everyone is courageous in asking compassion and forgiveness just before they're dying. She lived a very comfortable life by swindling others. Don't be fooled.

Manila, Thanks so much for your link....I downloaded it for my students. I'm sure they will enjoy it as much as they did the one when Lois was running for mayor and had to dumb down her answers.

"man is the only animal on this planet that when he gets old enough to understand learns that life is short and that hes going to die someday, so many people turn to religion in the hopes that death is not the final outcome of their existence, i believe that is the hook, the preachers use to sheer the sheep with ,everlasting life , its the life ring they throw you on Sundays when your setting there in your seat listening to some smarmy born again bastard that don't believe in the bullshit hes feeding his flock but since he found out being a preachers the easy job it is and since hes unwilling to go out and dig ditches for an honest buck what better way then to spread the word , your not going to be dead forever Jesus is coming back and all you have to do to get there is be a good boy , keep your trap shut , follow the ten commandments , submit to your betters that being the richer folks who make up the church elders, and for gods sake pay your tithes, even preachers need a new car house and steaks , miracles do happen , the miracle is that enyone couldn't see the hypocrisy in religion , and the kicker is you get to listen to some preacher telling you the re-pigs will abolish abortion , never happen!"

Spot on unadulterated truthful commentary that was worth every second reading. I could not have said it better myself. I have always wondered how easy the sheeple fall for the obvious ruse these charlatans use to get easy money from just passing a plate all they have to do is preach they do not even have to be a perfect example of the message because the sheep will easily forgive, if you simply ask for it and pray. I have always agreed with Marx that the wealthy and powerful use religion as a means to control the masses as they secretly think the following:I have everything in this life power, money, privilege, influence the ability to go and do anything anywhere and buy anything I want while the poor and middle class have the hope and prayer that god will give them everything I have in this life in the next one. It is amazing how the christian heaven and the Islamic paradise just mirrors the foolish followers inner fantasies about how wealthy and powerful people actually live in this life yet they convince themselves i will get it when i am dead and they use the ridiculous argument you better get right with god and accept jesus as your personal savior because what if we are right and there is a hell. I always think yes there is a hell and i am surrounded by it every day as the logically impaired functionally insane drive me batty everyday. I would rather burn in hell with the devil then listen to a conservative republican moralize from their hypocritical soap box. They never consider what if you are wrong and there is no heaven, no hell, no god just a void when you die and you lived a lie just so some manipulative rich and powerful person could be happy. Heaven always has mansions and you can have sex with as many women as you want and they are all virgins and the street are paved with Gold etc.,etc.,etc., it is all infantile nonsense from completely deluded minds who fear death and are too dumb to realize how they are being manipulated.

Personally I like the way Freddy Mercury checked out better. He didn't hold himself out for sympathy. He waited till the last minute to inform the public. And he didn't apologize for liking his dope and making shadow puppets with both females and males.