U.S. Set To Offer Huge Arms Deal to Saudi Arabia
Um, hello? Anybody else see some GIANT red flags here? I'd say this is the kind of thing that we need to make sure we notify our Congresspeople that we do not support--at least if they want to claim even a semblance of being strong on terror.
NYTimes (reg. req'd.)
The Bush administration is preparing to ask Congress to approve an arms sale package for Saudi Arabia and its neighbors that is expected to eventually total $20 billion at a time when some United States officials contend that the Saudis are playing a counterproductive role in Iraq.
The proposed package of advanced weaponry for Saudi Arabia, which includes advanced satellite-guided bombs, upgrades to its fighters and new naval vessels, has made Israel and some of its supporters in Congress nervous. Senior officials who described the package on Friday said they believed that the administration had resolved those concerns, in part by promising Israel $30.4 billion in military aid over the next decade, a significant increase over what Israel has received in the past 10 years.
But administration officials remained concerned that the size of the package and the advanced weaponry it contains, as well as broader concerns about Saudi Arabia's role in Iraq, could prompt Saudi critics in Congress to oppose the package when Congress is formally notified about the deal this fall.
In talks about the package, the administration has not sought specific assurances from Saudi Arabia that it would be more supportive of the American effort in Iraq as a condition of receiving the arms package, the officials said.
:( more hand holding with the Saudis... Alternative fuels anyone?
LibertyLover @ 1:
Try making your current engines more efficient instead. This year, the worlds food production will be less than the world needs for the first time, due to the usage of farm land for biofuel.
Previous years, it was a logistics problem, now its production as well.
Military Hardware?...Billions
War?...Billions
Selling weaponry to the country that had 2/3 of the highjackers that attacked you on 9/11?.....PRICELESS!!!
First I am interested in knowing just how much influence Saudi Arabia has here.. How much of the US debt des Saudi Arabia own? How much of the United States do they own? How many POLITICIANS do the they own? And, how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis? Wasn't it like 15 of the 19? Wasn't it the Saudis that were piled into airplanes and whisked out of the US right after 9/11 happened while all US airspace was closed (without being allowed to be questioned by the FBI)?
What is going on here??
This arms deal is just a transfer of weapons to the extended bush family in saudi arabia. this weapons will probably end up with osama bin laden a bush family member. bush has made no effort to capture osama, so you can only deduce that he supports him, making bush an enemy combattant of the American people.
How many Saudis were on those planes?
Umm hello? Who will offset Iran's increasing influence in the region? Check out "NO QUARTER"......Larry Johnson fully supports this sale....it makes sense to do so.
The US has always funded both sides within S.A. which is what cost us 3,000 lives on 9/11 - if you want to believe the commission's report. There are two factions in S.A. and we have and continue to walk a very thin line by funding and politically supporting both as a check against one another. The bottom line is that this has NEVER worked for us or anyone. It only continues to escalate warfare = M.I.C. and other industry profiteering at the expense of human lives. The false neo-cons like Cheney are all for the chaos as profits roll in. IMPEACH THE DAMN SONS OF BITCHES NOW!!! NOT POLITICALLY EXPEDIANT?!? IT'S YOUR G.D. CONSITUTIONAL OBLIGATION!!! and for those who don't call for or vote for IMPEACHMENT, you are in violation of your oath.
U.S. Set To Offer Huge Arms Deal to Saudi Arabia
So all they needed was a hug?...awww
Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive regimes in the Middle East. Although the government is (supposedly) our ally, the people aren't so friendly. Osama and 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were saudis.
This is not unlike Iran under the Shah. He was our friend so we sold him lots of cool military equipment. But when he was overthrown, we didn't get our stuff back.
Arming the terrorists of tommorrow.
So the plan to mellow a region out is to toss a couple billion in weapons each year...that seems to of worked well so far. Where can I get the drugs that the administration smokes...it must be so good!
Fifty billion in arms sales to Israel and Saudi Arabia... I don't know if it's better to be a defense contractor or an energy company. Good thing the same folks own both.
I think 15 of 19 the hijackers were Saudi nationals.
And the Saudis are funding the Sunni insurgency, which is bombing us.
This is so wrong on every level. Bush knows how to treat his Saudi friends.
Can any of this be stopped? Why are we arming those who arm our enemies?
6 HDon Says:
"How many Saudis were on those planes?"
bush moved all of the bin laden family out of the USA back to saudi arabia when Americans could not travel. this was the first crime committed by bush/cheney and it ultimately makes bush/cheney enemy combattants of the USA and AMERICAN PEOPLE.
I've been so frustrated after discovering info about the predator drone's upgrade, the "reaper" that has a one and a half-ton payload capability--It will be initially armed with two 500 pound bombs and four hell-fire missiles. They are adding acres of runway to a base north of Baghdad for these things which are to be deployed this September--They will be controlled by two-man teams (Navigation and weapons) from video screens in NEVADA.
Now this insane--FURTHER INSANITY by this administration to fatten the coffers of even more weapon manufacturers as well as advance WHAT??? Bush's armageddon?
The spector this engenders in me--Along with my sense of history and the corruption of power makes me weep for humanity.
Armming them Over There, so they won't have to arm themselves over here..umm, er, that is...spuTtErr, gAsP...
To put it as simply as I can, I do not understand this. Why are we doing it? Why do the Saudis need this stuff?
Hasn't it always been the case of the powers that be to arm and fund both sides in a conflict? Both sides buy weapons and supplies from the same people who then made LOTS of money and the warring sides fight it out until they either run out of money or are all dead and give up.. Then they do it all over again when another conflict flames up (or is flamed up - helped maybe??)
Bottom line, there is a lot of money to be made when anyone goes to war. Big business. I frankly think the powers that be don't care who ins or loses, just that they keep fighting and buying more weapons and spending that money.
Everyone has thier price.
given enough $$$$$$$, most people will just about
go along with anything. It's obvious that this is
one of the top ways our government (well...not ours)
gets away with what they do. And the fucked up part
about it is, Joe Six Pack pays for it out of his own taxes.
....Oh, and with nothing in return by the way.
War is big business who knows no loyalties.
This sounds like suicide by proxy.
Ahhhh yes, its time to feed the machine.
Here's a GIANT red flag for you. I saw this and the NYTimes article back to back a few days ago and nearly lost it. Is anybody thinking in the government?
Maybe it's a reward for their religious freedom and enlightened treatment of women.
bush and cheney are thinking just how big their bank accounts are getting. are they paying taxes for all these illegal profits. they are stealing from the american people.
these two bastards should be IMPEACHED AND ...................!
House calls for impeaching GONZO!!! WOO HOO!!!
get used to american GIS getting thoes weapons turned on them, the war mongers win again!!!!!
Gee that worked so well with Iraq back when they were fighting the Russians.
Let's Cheer!!
I smell smokescreen....
I smell smokescreen....
I smell smokescreen....
Maybe it's a family tradition
Prescott Bush (lil' george's grampa) made money in the 1930's helping Germany rebuild it's weapons and munitions industry.
George H. W. Bush was part of the Reagan Administration that sold weapons to BOTH Iran and Iraq. Poppy Bush claimed he was "out of the loop" but it turns out he was just loopy.
Talk about the "Bush Legacy!"
BTW - one member of the Saud royal family is so close to the Bush family they call him "Bandar Bush."
[Deleted. Sock puppets are not permitted. Pick an identity and stick with it]
Exactly who are the Saudis arming themselves against?
pissed off patricia @ 17:
other than the money for the war industry's coffers, i would say this is the price of propping up monarchical dictatorships in a sea of people who despise them. american support for democracy? phhpt. only when the leaders don't allow full corporate domination of their people and lands, then we demand democracy.
Oh, come on. The Saudis are our friends! How could selling them piles of weapons possibly be a bad idea?
I mean, we gave Afghanistan lots of stuff to fight the Russians for us, and that worked out great. They beat the Russians, and then... oh, wait.
Ok, but we gave stuff to Iraq when we didn't like Iran, and that worked out great--nice, stable standstill in that war, and then... oh, wait.
But when we gave stuff to Iran, that worked. Nice stable standstill, and then... oh, wait.
Come to think of it, selling weapons to somebody seems to be a pretty good indicator of them being an enemy in the future.
what's bandar bush's cut?
Anyone else smell proxy war?
Why? The Saudis couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack.
I know! We come in at the last minute and attack Iran.
Hell, why not throw in a couple of nukes as well. After all, it's only for defense against Iraq.
Arms Dealers make $20,000,000,000 and Israel makes $30,400,000,000 so you can see it is only the American Tax Payer getting screwed here. No Problem.
Aiding the enemy?
FreeDUMB @ 39:
So that's why I feel like lighting up.
Gotta start paying the Chinese back for our war loans with something.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/usa/news/article_1336730.php/Chief_Ju...
Just another Kick Back arms racket scheme. Look at the huge bribes that were exchanged in the British Saudi deal.
Notice that we sold huge quantities of weapons and military equipment to Saudi Arabia for decades, but when push came to shove, we suddenly decided that they would not be able to do anything against a potential attack from Saddam, so we had to fire up a Desert Storm. In other words, what the hell was the point of selling all those weapons to the Saudis if we knew that they were still not capable of defending their selves against Saddam's puny military. It is all a weapons mongering shell game.
...
Why don't we just trade Bush to the terriers for peace?
Isnt that just swell.
I wonder what a Humans Right Group has to say about ARMS SALES?
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=arms
if a national security priority is to seize the financial assets of those who support terrorists, then perhaps we should start...
I wonder what the Carlyle Group is doing these days?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Carlyle_Group
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html
I wonder what happened to the BAE Scandal?
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=410389&in_p...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+BAE+Scandal&btnG=Google+Search
anonymous @ 43:
Sorry. Chief "Justice" Roberts taken to hospital after a fall at his home.
Administration's goal here is to fuel and sustain the growth of the military-industrial complex of the US. What better way to do that, than to arm both sides of a major conflict? Or, to arm one side, and then attack it? We did that in Afganistan. We did that in Iraq. We are doing that in Iraq, again, with the arming of the Sunnis. Now it's the Saudis and Israel. Can anything be more damaging to the US and the world? President Eisenhower warned us before he left office: "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." It appears that the citiznery is not very alert or knowledgeable ...
I truly believe that I must have fallen asleep some time in 1999 and woke up in the Bizarro World. That's the only possible explanation because no sane government would shortchange its own army during wartime with sub-standard equipment while simultaneously supplying its enemy's major supporter with weaponry that will undoubtedly be used against it. Right?
The Defense - Oil Cycle -- money from the the oil to buy more weapons
dogeatdogi @ 26:
these are exciting times. and on top of that today BillO says he's going to "destroy" DailyKos on his show. I'll wait for the briefing on that one, and it should be good for comic relief.
what the hell! and we aint never got them mangos bush gave nuke secrets to india for yet!!!yah just cant trust a prick like bush who was hatched by the quaker oats guy!
anoter britt lackey slurping on the bush cock!heck of a job brown
[Deleted. Please respect the siteowner's policy regarding alternate 9/11 theories]
[Deleted. Please respect the siteowner's policy about the discussion of alternate 9/11 theories]
We must have world war III so I can have a republican labeled legacy that will over shadow FDR. The party is depending on me.
[Deleted. Israel is not the topic of this thread]
Hey folks, this is treason pure and simple. If you don't believe me, check out this:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
If delivering $20 billion in munitions isn't lending aid and comfort to the enemy, I don't know what is.
You want to impeach Bush (and throw his ass in jail, to boot)? Here's your issue.
I am reading the book 'Jarhead' and the author had a somewhat funny comment about the Saudi military. During the buildup to the first Gulf War, the Marines were doing training exercises with the Saudi Army. The Marines were telling the Saudis that they need to build fighting holes (aka foxholes) so the Saudis did just that; they went into town, hired some foreign laborers and got them to dig and build the fighting holes by the next day while the Saudi soldiers sat back and watched. When the Marines asked why they did that, the Saudi soldiers said they don't do that kind of work. The Saudis are being totally set up for a really big fall. They have gotten fat, lazy, and stupid and when the oil runs out, they are going to be royally fucked as they don't know how to do anything.
[Deleted. Off topic]
Well we armed the Iranians under Nixon-Ford, that went south. We armed Osama in the Afgan-Russo war, that went south. We armed Saddam against the Iranians, that went south. Now we are arming the Saudis. Anybody see a southbound train coming?
There are 2 dangers with selling the Saudis advanced weaponry. First, their loyality toward the USA is rather questionable in my mind. We may be facing our own weapons in the field if there is a change in dictator. Besides, given the hostility toward the USA in Saudi Arabia, the weapons may be transfered to hostile states by American hating Saudis.
Second, since when have the Saudis shown any stomach for battle? If attacked, they will likely surrender without a fight. It is more than likely that these weapons end up in the hands of terrorists.
This would be the biggest sell-out of all time. If Congress is our only hope here, well, here's hoping for some brains, backbone, and balls.
"Why are we arming those who arm our enemies?"
So there will be more reasons for the MIC to go to war and make more money. That's why we armed Iraq, that's why we armed Osama and the taliban.
[Deleted. Off topic]
[Deleted. Off topic]
Chris @ 64:
If we don't arm them how can we have a war with them? If we didn't have wars, how would the Military Industrial Complex make profit? Sheesh....there is a reason for everything don'tcha know?
anonymous @ 47:
Did he enjoy his trip?
Gee, what will Joe Lieberman do?
If he opposes this Saudi deal, he will be breaking with Bush's Middle East policy he has slavishly supported.
If he endorses it, he betrays Israel.
Watch him spin like a top and twist in the wind. Which probably won't bother him in the least.
Annoyed Canuck @ 69:
lol, maybe we should get his opinion on record.
THE WORLD FROM BERLIN
US 'Pouring Oil on Fire' With Middle East Arms Sales
The US government seems to have stopped talking about exporting democracy and is resorting instead to good old-fashioned weapons sales to Middle East allies to keep Iran in check, say German media commentators. Those sales could backfire, newspapers warn.
American arms manufacturers will be jumping for joy at news that the Bush administration plans to sell $20 billion of advanced weaponry to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.
The plan, expected to be announced Monday, will be balanced by a 25 percent rise in US military and defence aid to Israel. A further $13 billion will be pledged to Egypt.
The $20 billion, spread over 10 years, aims to provide Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates with advanced satellite-guided bombs, upgrades to its fighters and new naval vessels.
German newspapers criticized the plan.
Center-left Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:
"By toppling the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein in Iraq, the United States indirectly strengthened Iran. Now the US is trying to curtail Iran's power again. But this will only succeed if the USA, in addition to arming the neighboring states, rediscovers the other half of their old strategy -- and conducts direct and comprehensive talks with Tehran."
Conservative Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes:
"Washington is once again resorting to the instrument of military cooperation and modern weapons sales to kill several birds with one stone: shore up Israel's security, maintain established links with allies and not least to counter Iran's bid to become the predominant power in the Gulf region."
"America has been noticably quiet for a long time about promoting democracy, which used to be its miracle weapon against the malaise of an Islamic Arab world in which militant Islamism is fermenting."
"Even if President Bush continues to believe in exporting democracy -- his policy is geared towards achieving security and stability in the region in the classic way."
Left-wing Berliner Zeitung writes:
"This is just the same political approach the US used after the Iranian revolution in 1979 when it armed neighboring Iraq under Saddam Hussein. This rearming didn't just lead to a long and horrifying war with countless victims on both sides. It also made the dictator Saddam feel strong enough in 1991 to march into Kuwait sand oppose US interests. Bush surely must have learned this lesson: The autocrats ruling the rich oil states can't be bossed around like the coup generals Washington used to back in Latin America."
Left-wing Frankfurter Rundschau writes:
"Washington shifted the balance of power with its war in Iraq. Now it's looking for ways to get the genie back in the bottle: Pushing back Iranian influence in the region is the new leitmotiv of US policy in the Middle East.
"The Bush Administration now thinks it has found a way: massive arms sales to Israel and those Arab regimes that Washington calls moderate. Anyone who believes an arms race in the Middle East is a clever strategy must have given up on alternative strategies. It's the same kind of logic as trying to put out a fire by pouring oil onto it."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,497188,00.html
What do you bet that this is only part one of a bigger arms deal?
Part 2 is an offsetting deal with Israel (on top of the massive US support they already get).
This neutralizes the threat of the new Saudi arms, and it's great business for Lockheed/Boeing/Northrop/Halliburton.
It's all about buying off your allies and feeding the Base.
Sheesh, if peole would just stop having so many damn babies a lot of these problems would go away.
I just wonder how much the Saudis are going to mark up the arms when they sell them to Bin Laden.
Is Bush going to pull this money out of his ASS or gut and steal money from something important that protects our children and poor??
WEAPONS FOR MIDEAST
German Politicians Criticize American Arms Deals
A senior foreign policy expert with German Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic Union party has come out with strong criticism against plans by the United States to provide arms to Saudi Arabia and countries throughout the Persian Gulf region.
...
In a related development over the weekend, the US ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, accused Saudi Arabia and other allies in the Middle East of undermining the US strategy to stabilize Iraq.
"Saudi Arabia and a number of other countries are not doing all they can to help us in Iraq," he told CNN on Sunday. In a recent editorial in the New York Times, Khalilzad complained that "not only Syria and Iran, but also some friends of the United States are pursuing destabilizing policies." He said Saudi Arabia was also undermining efforts to make progress in Iraq.
In concrete terms, the former US ambassador to Baghdad criticized several neighboring countries for not engaging the Iraqi government. Some of the countries that have not established diplomatic representation in Iraq, also have Shiite populations, he noted.
"The level of positive effort that they are making compared to the stakes involved for the region is minimal," he said.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,497207,00.html
So, 45% of the Iraqi insurgency is from Saudi Arabia, so we're going to send $20B worth of WEAPONS over there. Brilliant. This is exactly why we are where we are........
TWISTING ARMS
US Pressures Germany to Cut Iran Business Ties
By Ralf Beste, Christoph Pauly and Christian Reiermann
The United States is using rough-handed methods to force Germany to impose tougher sanctions against Iran. The government in Berlin is resisting, but German banks are already caving in.
...
While in Berlin, Levey met with Thomas Mirow, a junior minister at the finance ministry, and Chancellor Angela Merkel's foreign policy advisor Christoph Heusgen. During those talks, he demanded Germany cut its so-called Hermes export credit insurance coverage when it came to deals with Iran. Moreover, Levey told the officials that Washington wanted Germany to scale back all of its other economic ties with Iran as quickly as possible.
But Levey ran into resistance from the Germans, who said his demands were understandable coming from a country that has no trade with Iran. Germany, however, exports more than €4 billion ($5.45 billion) in goods to the country each year, creating thousands of jobs. Were Germany to end its Hermes export guarantees, German locomotives might no longer be delivered to Iran, but Chinese and Russian companies would gladly step into the breach. The Americans would end up gaining nothing, while the Germany economy stood to lose a lot. Besides, explained the Germans, the Hermes cover has been excluded from UN sanctions against Iran. In short, Levey could forget his request -- Germany would stick to the UN resolutions, but would do no more. But officials in Berlin know they have to come up with something to placate Washington and so both the chancellery and the foreign ministry are looking into a sweeping weapons embargo. That might be just enough to appease the Americans.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,497319,00.html
SARKOZY MEETS GADHAFI
France to Build Nuclear Reactor in Libya
Now that the Bulgarian nurses have been released, the rush to do business with Libya has begun. French President Nicolas Sarkozy was first off the mark, flying to Tripoli to meet with Moammar Gadhafi and sign a number of agreements -- including a deal on building a French nuclear reactor in Libya.
...
The Libyans have been scrambling to get out of international isolation since accepting responsibility for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie in Scotland and agreeing to dismantle its nuclear weapons program in 2003. The move prompted the United States and European Union to lift sanctions, and Washington reopened its embassy there in 2006. Since then international investment has been flowing into Libya's oil sector, which provides the bulk of the country's gross domestic product.
But the continuing incarceration of the six foreign medics had been a stumbling block to further ties. Now, following their release, foreign investment in the North African country is likely to increase dramatically. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Wednesday she also hoped to travel to Libya soon. "I know that American companies are very interested in working in Libya," she said.(emphasis added)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,496711,00.html
Yeah, I see a red flag...THE 9/11 HIJACKERS WERE FROM SAUDI ARABIA!
Big Dan @ 81:
hey only 15 out of 19. Don't be so hard on CheneyBushCo!
/sarky bullshit
:mrgreen:
They attack us on 911 and Bush steers away from them to Iraq and then he gives them weapons... COME THE F*&T^ ON!!!
I am as afraid of Iran as much as I am Brazil... Have we learned NOTHING from the past few decades of arming religious nuts and dictators???? NOTHING?
Smack_dab @ 59:
But they will have American weapons!! Out of oil and have lots of missles? What to do next?
Armagedon means you can spend like there's no tomorrow!
nwmuse @ 4:
I think what you think IS going on here
Let me get this straight. We sell arms to the Saudi's so that they in turn can kill our kids. So in essence, Bush is killing his own troops while his Bud's make a killing over at Bechtel, Halliburton, Raytheon, EXXON, Boeing, Carlyle...
It reminds me of my hometown where the son was a pediatrician and the father a mortician.
The defense contractors get whatever they want. This is worse than the robber baron era
In talks about the package, the administration has not sought specific assurances from Saudi Arabia that it would be more supportive of the American effort in Iraq as a condition of receiving the arms package, the officials said.
How 'ironic' it would be if our soldiers got shot & killed with the weapons that were sold to the Saudis. This is a sick world we are living in.
Salmineo @ # 61
and
Gerald Gibson @ # 83
US foreign policy in the Mid East has a batting average of 0.05 at best.
It's been that way since the early 50's.
Isn't there something wrong ?
Saudi Arabia can blow any time . Same with Pakistan .
Lovely American allies . Remember the Shah of Iran. He
had control of the situation , didn't he?
Boy , did that arrangement end suddenly.
what???!!!!
The US exports war. Its what we do.
My personal take is that Bush wants to sugar up Saudi Arabia so that he can use it to launch an attack on Iran.
Maybe that's why we haven't heard a peep from Israel --which should ordinarily be apoplectic about this--but thinks attacking Iran is a fantastic idea especially if the U.S. does its dirty work.
The point is Saudi Arabia is PAYING the USA for arms. $20bn. American taxpayers are PAYING Israel for arms. $30bn. The USA nets $10bn out of this. I have a problem supplying arms to any country that wants to start a pre-emptive war with Iran.
I'd love to know what the kickbacks are to the Generals still in the DoD and bound for defense contractor territory the instant they retire.
Another stupid idea...
In another stunning example of their complete incompetence, the Bush Administration plans to sell $20 billion worth of military weapons to Saudi Arabia.
Wow!
I'm thinking that the Saudi deal may fall through , but the $30 billion in arms to Israel is a done deal.
The Israel arsenal is somewhat depleted after their venture into Lebanon, and interest in the U.S, are pleased to help out at tax payers expence.
Look, there is no political rangling or back-scratching going on here.
It's completely transparent.
The arms manufacturers need new markets. (Having swatted the wasp's hive in Iraq, the U.S. has spent as much money as taxpayers will allow there.)
For new markets, we need new conflicts.
How else can you explain arming:
1) one of the world's most oppressive regimes?
2) the country that created the mastermind and most of the hijackers behind 9/11?
3) the country that supplies the majority of insurgents in Iraq?
Take your pick, there's no good reason, except to fuel an all-out regional conflict.
If you consider Bush is a Rapturist who cynically prays for a major conflict (i.e. Armageddon) so Biblical prophesy can be fulfilled and Christ can return, what does it hurt to arm the enemy?
"The Military-Industrial-Complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture."
- Mike Gravel, Democratic Presidential Candidate
While Saudis on the 9-11 Flight is disturbing, the more current malaise in Iraq is somewhat attributable to SA's disgruntled young men.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-suicidebomb17jul17,...
But of course, Dear Leader Dubya, in his efforts to spread democracy in the Middle East, must surely be on the right track by arming democracies (like Saudi Arabia) that share our values, unlike those terrorist-loving jerks in France.
(Saudi Arabia IS a democracy, right?.....)
what else could we sell them? it's the only thing we manufacture in the u.s. anymore. the elites want to get some of those petro-dollars.
Uh, no red flags here. Just most of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Nothing else here to see....just move along now.
What's it matter? If not the Saudis, it would be some other nice little "American influenced democracy" with some other tinpot dictator/regime. No big deal. So some of the 911 hijackers were Saudis. Big deal. They died. Done deal. They could have just as easily been Iranian, or Iraqi, or Haitian, or Venezualan, or Cuban, or any other poor bastard's country our government has "influenced" ahem....legally of course. Snark.
war profiteres running wild.
lucid fiction @ 3:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile, we are STILL living with consequences of the fiction that Iraq had anything to do with September 11th.
This Administration is amazing.
A lot of misinformation in the story:
- "20 bilion" sale is being drived by Israeli supporters. Real story is Israel against satellite guided bomb sale to Saudi Arabia.
One headline you are never going to see is:
Israel set to get 30 billion free tax payer money without any conditions.
Basic problem is Israeli lobby pushing dangrous imperalist U.S. policies in Middle East and inability of anyone including progressives to stand up to it.
Is war all that the U. S. can export? Don't we have some other expertise we could give them? Engineering, business, agriculture, etc.? Something that might lead to some international cooperation?
We ought to be working toward a world where a military force is simply not needed. A very, very long term goal, to be sure, but why not actually do something to further peace?
Exoscoper @ 106:
Theoretically, IF our U.S. were the U.S. we've been brainwashed to believe exists.
Certainly, if we used our expertise and money, we could:
create lasting world peace,
end world hunger,
educate every human being,
provide health care for every human being,
provide clean water for every human being,
create the new petroleum-free energy market,
(thereby) halt global warming.
Certainly, the trillions we pay in taxes can do a lot of things for a lot of people.
But do you think the billionaires who walk through the revolving doors from private industry to the White House/Congress/Pentagon to lobbying for private industry want the gravy train to end?
Look at Cheney. Do you think he wants to give away the Halliburton golden parachute that awaits him the nanosecond he steps out of the White House?
Look at Bush. Do you think he wants to save the world? His father has already secured the billionaire-dom of every single Bush for generations through Carlyle and their Saudi connections.
And you know how Bush got into Yale because he was a legacy? Can you guess where he's headed the nanosecond he hands over what's left of the presidency? Straight on a plane to meet with Carlyle, or with the Saudi's on behalf of Carlyle.
These folks have one allegiance, and it's not to the United States, or the security of its individuals, or the spread of "democracy," or even to the human race. It's to GREED.
And the moment everyone understands the way the world works, that's the moment, together, we can start affecting real change.
Until then, we're handing over our paychecks to gangsters posing as nuns.
Tannen @ 85:
I think we all think what you think he thinks IS going on here too.
Selling weapons to our enemies = supportin' th' turoops
Destroying personal freedoms and torturing men women children = protectin th' homelan'
Firing every general who disagrees with you = lisnin' to my genrals on th' groun'
The worst air, water and ground pollution rating since the 60's = Kleeen Skys
Drilling in Anwar = solvin erl dipedince
9/11, Hurricane Katrina = unforseeble disasters
There isn't one hideous unforgivable act this administration hasn't done without a lovely homespun euphemism to cover up the blood soaked truth.
"Managed conflict" for fun and profits.
It looks as if the site monitor is perpetuating the myth that the 911 hijackers (if there really were any) were from Saudi Arabia.
That was disproved long ago.
$20 billion to the Saudis and the Israelis are getting $30.5 over the next 10 years. We already give Israel $3 - $5 + Billion per year and they break every single International Law in the book, (then preach about wanting peace...) --- Can you say - "head up our asses"... (?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
Nuff said,...
Still looking to see how much they own us,... MM said in F9/11 that it was 9% of our GNP,....
"In November 1995, terrorists attacked U.S. troops on Saudi soil. Five Americans were killed when a bomb exploded at a U.S.-operated Saudi National Guard training center in Riyadh. The Saudi government arrested four Saudi men in connection with the bombing and coerced them into a public confession. In the confession, they claimed to have been inspired by communiqués from Osama bin Ladin. Although bin Laden denied involvement, he praised the attack. Before the FBI had a chance to interview the suspects, they were beheaded.
In June 1996, a large truck bomb devastated the U.S. military residence in Dhahran, called Khobar Towers, killing 19 servicemen. Again, U.S. law-enforcement efforts to investigate the bombing were met with resistance by Saudi officials. In June 2001, a federal grand jury indicted 13 Saudis and one Lebanese man for the attack. As of mid-November 2001, Saudi Arabia has ruled out the idea of any extraditions."
"In September 1996, the Taliban gained control of the Afghan city of Kabul. The following year, Saudi Arabia became one of only three countries to establish diplomatic relations with the Taliban. Although diplomatic ties were not broken until after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, relations were scaled back in 1998 after the kingdom accused the Taliban of harboring Osama bin Laden.
On Sept. 25, 2001, Saudi Arabia broke relations with the Taliban and issued a statement that said: "It is to be regretted that the government of the Taliban made use of Afghanistan's special status, not to build up brotherly relations or set up high Islamic values, but to make its land a center to attract and train a number of misguided people of all nationalities, and in particular, from among the citizens of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in order to carry out criminal acts that are against every tenet of Shariah [Islamic Law] and faith: moreover, Taliban has continued to refuse to hand those criminals over to justice."
Frustrated by the lack of U.S. response to Israeli-Palestinian violence, Crown Prince Abdullah sent President George W. Bush an angry letter on August 29, according to an October 2001 report in The Wall Street Journal. He warned that Saudi Arabia was being put in an untenable position and reportedly wrote: "A time comes when peoples and nations part. We are at a crossroads. It is time for the United States and Saudi Arabia to look at their separate interests. Those governments that don't feel the pulse of their people and respond to it will suffer the fate of the Shah of Iran.""
"19 men affiliated with the al-Qaeda[2][3], including 15 Saudi nationals, hijacked four commercial passenger jet airliners, crashing two of the planes into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, one plane into each tower, which caused both towers to collapse within two hours. Hijackers of the third aircraft crashed that plane into the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia. Passengers and members of the flight crew on the fourth hijacked aircraft attempted to retake control of their plane from the hijackers; that plane crashed into a field in rural Somerset County, Pennsylvania. Approximately 3,000 people died in these attacks.
Saudi Arabia issued a statement on the day of the terrorist attacks on America's World Trade Center and Pentagon, calling them "regrettable and inhuman." Saudi recognition to the Taliban stopped and as of mid-November 2001, the Bush administration continued to publicly praise Saudi support for the war on terrorism. However, published media reports have indicated U.S. frustration with Saudi inaction. Although 15 of the 19 Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudi nationals, publicly the Saudis were not cooperating with Americans wanting to look at background files of the hijackers or interview the hijackers' families.
Saudi Arabia engaged the prominent Washington D.C. lobbying firm of Patton Boggs, headed by Thomas Boggs (brother of Cokie Roberts of ABC News and National Public Radio), as registered foreign agents in the wake of the public relations disaster when knowledge of the identities of suspected hijackers became known."
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Saudi_Arabia
The Saudi's are Bush's friends. We need the money because of all the money troubles Bush has caused us. I actually feel sorry for Iran. If everybody around you was your enemy and they all had WMD, would you just sit there until they unloaded on you? I would try to arm myself again't the enemy.
The Saudi's are pushing us to attack Iran. Perhaps they plan to help us.
You are right, 9/11 attack was mostly Saudi's. The Saudi's are Bush's friends. If we are in so much danger why did we not secure our border? We have completely ignored it, except for throwing our border patrol agents in jail.
Perhaps it is time for another attack, so the people will back a war with Iran.
[...] Crooks and Liars [...]
NOOOO!!!! BOOOOO!!! ARRGGGHHHH! THIS SUCKS! I TRIED TO STOP IT, TOO, BUT COULDNT!!!! UUUURGHHHHHH!!!! BAD!!!!
We've been selling arms to the Saudis for decades. I really don't see why everyone on here is so up in arms about this. The fact is Saudi Arabia has been and remains an ally in the region. The fact that 15 of the 19 911 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia does not by itself demean the relationship between the governments of the United States and Saudi Arabia. Al Qaeda is an enemy of ours as well as Saudi Arabia.
RMHK @ 117:
The weapons we're selling to the Saudis and other Arab states are not WMD's.
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