Michael O'Hanlon - An Argument He Just Might Lose
By Logan Murphy Monday Jul 30, 2007 9:33am
Michael O'Hanlon of the Brookings Institute appeared on "Hardball" Monday to defend his propaganda piece OpEd, "A War We Just Might Win" which appeared in Monday's New York Times. O'Hanlon and the co-author of the article, Kenneth Pollack, have been falsely labeled by much of the media as being critical of the war in Iraq, when in fact they have been two of the biggest cheerleaders for the invasion and occupation from the beginning -- and like most Bushies they have been wrong about almost everything. The OpEd, which contradicts O'Hanlon's own research, while acknowledging that the political process has seen little success, uses cherry picked data to give the false impression that there is real progress being made militarily.
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In this clip O'Hanlon squares off with Brian Katulis from the Center For American Progress, who labeled the article exactly what it is -- propaganda. Katulis does a fine job of exposing O'Hanlon, pointing out that the surge has failed because it hasn't brought about the desired effect, which is a cohesive and functioning Iraqi government.
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this war has lasted longer than ww2 but Michael doesn't give a shit. The media go "OMG a convert" to someone that has always used Victor Davis Hanson talking points
He's whining the war?
Of course we're winning the war, my fellow Comrades. To think otherwise would be Un-Patriotic and Un-American.
You're either WITH us or AGAINST us. It's your decision.
Rove calls some commentary writers and pleads with them to write some positive pieces.
Thats also called War Propaganda.
The occupation won't be successful until the Iraqi parliment signs the oil giveaway agreements that the oil companies drafted. Then we will have won the hearts and minds, oh and the oil of the iraqis,
Of course it's going to lool like it's improving where you have large groups of heavily armed people. The question is what happens when they leave? They can't stay there indefinitely.
Predictably, right-wing bloggers have jumped on that idiotic OpEd piece as evidence that the Bush strategy is working. How pathetic.
I can't believe people still talk about what will happen *when* we leave Iraq.
Fools. That day will never come, so stop fretting.
The USofA is in Iraq to stay. (Hey, that rhymed.)
As Ronald Reagan once said, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!"
It's a repeat of a horror flick. The same rationales, invoked by those who celebrated the Vietnam war, are today embraced by the same vicious breed of cat.
I am their mortal enemy.
I was younger then, times changed, and I subsequently began to pull my punches.
But no longer.
Any democratic presidential candidate, unprepared to declare unbridled war on the GOP, is beyond useless.
They are collaborators with an unholy tyranny.
Go Niners.
It is as if O'Hanlon has just reported how victory is just around the corner and that the troops should be given more of a chance to make it work-forty years ago in Vietnam. The other analyst and reporters like David Halberstam would recognize O'Hanlon as being a tool for the administration.
In the 1960s, Halberstam called the press conferences that were held in Vietnam the five o'clock follies, because everything that was said by the military back then was spun in order to present a rosy picture of how things were going for the U.S. in Vietnam, when in point of fact just the opposite was true. O'Hanlon and Pollak are now representing the five o'clock follies of what is going on today in Iraq. The hope is that there will be those in the media who will not allow these two to get away with their blatant propaganda.
It's such a crock to hear that O'Hanlon has been a "liberal" and against the buildup to go to war in Iraq. This guy was a main cheerleader and propagandist for Bush Co. He looked flat- footed and almost apoplectic in his faux rage at being called a liar. It was a great smackdown...a long time coming. Fox Opinion had Bay Buchanan on last night repeating that O'Hanlon and Pollack "were two liberal analysts who see we are winning the war." Even Coombs hit back at the farce.
Bush seems to have out sourced the "catapaulting" of the propaganda to these two guys.
You folks clearly need a refresher course in Orwell 101.
Y'see, there's this thing called the "memory hole." Your lesson today is to learn about and understand its usage.
Give it just one more Friedman unit...
[Deleted. Take the incoherent racism elsewhere]
About the only ones that have had any sucess in uniting the Iraqis are the Iraqi Football Team. They have done what the Bush Administration and its puppet Government never could do and they did it, without military firepower. O'Hanlon and the others, just like past imperialists will never learn.
[...] Center for American Progress fellow Brian Katulis called out O’Hanlon for writing a “propaganda piece” and “cherry-picking the facts on [...]
This O'Hanlon guy spent 8 days in Iraq and now he knows all about it?! Forget the south of Iraq, but if you focus in on some selected neighborhoods in Baghdad things look good?!
If he give myself a lobotomy, can I then join the Brookings Institute and make big bucks as an armchair warrior?
[refers to deleted post]
Well it's actually gonna be 2008 now. According to the Pentagram.
Wow. Eamon and Joe O. with back-to-back football-related analogies and/or posts.
Seems like everybody's getting a kick out of this "war".
sometimes when I see clips like this, i feel bad. i feel bad because i didn't use my intelligence to dupe a bunch of foolish people to enrich myself. but then i remember i have a conscience and i let it go.
The White House was fully aware this Op-Ed was coming out and they probably had a hand in vetting it beforehand for 'pro-surge' points. Please how transparent. Bush will do what he wants when he wants and how he wants. He doesn't care about the majority will of the American people, he only cares about his 'perceived' legacy (how laughable is that). This is Bush's war and will always be his war. Period.
Wonder how much the Bush administration is paying this guy to write?
Anytime Bush and his thugs need some propaganda they just hire the first press whore willing to sell their integrity for a few bucks.
You know, I have to wonder if O'Hanlon would have made a perfect fit in the old Soviet Politburo during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The way he and other war supporters talk, I bet you heard just about the same thing in the old Soviet Union just before their puppet regime (I.E. Mohammad Najibullah) in Afghanistan fell.
One of these guys said yesterday that their tour was arranged by the military. Kinda difficult to write something negative about your host on a tour. Arranged by the white house? Let by the military? Postive for the war? I'm shocked! Wait, no I'm not.
If we had only given Viet Nam a few more months!
Did anyone else notice that when O"Hanlon was put on the spot he jumped to the "personal attack" defense so he wouldn't have to defend his position with facts? Watch for this as the new Right Wing approach----looking for sympathy and "fairness."
Larry @ 27:
It ain't new - during Bush's goobernatorial campaign against Ann Richards they squealed like stuck pigs cuz she supposedly referred to him as a "jerk." This was in Texas!
Justice From Behind Barricades in Baghdad
By MICHAEL R. GORDON
The U.S. and Iraqi governments have built a legal Green Zone to shelter judges and secure the trials of some of Iraq's most dangerous suspects.a>
If the 'surge' worked, this wouldn't be necessary! maybe the 'toilet paper of record' can end its schizophrenia one day.
Nah! Nevermind!
[...] Also See:Michael O’Hanlon - An Argument He Just Might Lose [...]
What are surges without throbbings?
The right-wing salesman starts out by whining that his opponent attacked his credibility, then prefaces every one of his statements with an attack on his opponent's credibility.
They're like spoiled children.
Orwell's Illegitimate Son @ 13:
I was having some problems with that earlier, but some Preparation H fixed it right up.
BaScOmBe @ 29:
Justice From Behind Barricades in Baghdad
By MICHAEL R. GORDON
The U.S. and Iraqi governments have built a legal Green Zone to shelter judges and secure the trials of some of Iraq's most dangerous suspects.
If the 'surge' worked, this wouldn't be necessary! maybe the 'toilet paper of record' can end its schizophrenia one day.
Nah! Nevermind!
[corrected, I hope]
Question: Where do the Iraqi politicians go on vacation, and how do they get there? I'm assuming there are very few vacation "road trips" in Iraq.
To paraphrase O'Hanlon: Far left extremists like Katulis should stop the personal attacks and stick to the facts.
ysbaddaden @ 33:
That's topical.
I'm glad to see that all the disruption in the Administration has not impacted on the Bureau of Disinformation's ability to spread lies, half truths and utter nonsense.
An Average Joe @ 35:
I agree and considering that they are mostly exiles and considered traitors and/or collaborators by the average Iraqi you know that they have heavy American security around them. My guess, they are living it up on their vacation in the United States. They probably have guest rooms at Bush's Crawford ranch.
Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 30, 2007
Military Fatalities: By Month
Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
7-2007 74 7 1 82 2.65 31
6-2007 101 7 0 108 3.6 30
5-2007 126 3 2 131 4.23 31
4-2007 104 12 1 117 3.9 30
Highest three-month total of the war and that many dead must mean that the surge is working.
Hanlon is pathetic. Claims without proof is all he has.
I wished that Barnicle had added something like "Well let's see if we stay there another 100 days that would figure out to be about 600 additional Americans dead, but that is acceptable because............well er..... because.......?
Orwell's Illegitimate Son @ 20:
Love the "getting a kick" line. :lol: By the way, it seems that some writers see the Iraqi Football Team's victory in the same way that I said in my #16 post. I might also add to this article though that the Bush Administration's failures are also exposed. As if anyone hasn't realized that already. From Reuters:
Iraq's soccer success exposes politicians' failure
By Mussab Al-Khairalla
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - If 11 young men can instill national pride and a sense of unity by playing soccer, Iraqis are wondering why 275 politicians elected to steer Iraq to a brighter future cannot achieve the same result.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKHA14392320070731?src=073107_...
sounds rather like a distraction to cover an issue? when do we see such complicity? when bad news is coming and diversion is in order. much like arlen and his gasbag deflation. what is it they are covering?
poor arlen, always looking so rational whilst doing the dirty work of the crime organization he is charged to investigate.
nothing like having them bought before they attack you
Let's give the benefit of the doubt and suggest that there has been military progress--though "military" is kind of a misnomer, it's really "policing." The big irony is that this progress has come at the expense of political progress, because arming the sunnis just drives a further wedge between the sects, and as O'Hanlon himself admits, security progress is only useful insofar as it allows for political reconciliation.
Orwell's Illegitimate Son @ 37:
Quite right a topical cream.
Small consolation for this awful mess, but it did feel good to see the little shit get smacked down so effectively...
Funny how so many conservatives will play gotcha games, but when refuted by their own quoted rules, they claim no fair, that's only palying gotcha!
Joe O. @ 42:
Why do I get the idea that Iraqi torturers are good at kicking balls too?
Our local right-wing news editor has loudly embraced this article as proof that Bush was right all along and that we must stay the course. These two Brookings guys would have been ignored by most of the media had they filed an honest report.
What is the deal here?
What an idiot. He said the war was different in 2004. I agree. Less death and destruction. These guys keep playing the horse of a different color game.
Why hasn't Michael O’Hanlon and Kirk Cameron ever been photographed together?
It's Bibleman!
when they show the 'picture of success', it's just rubble. so success is apparently the total leveling of every liveable area of Iraq. I'm sure that the Iraqis want to shower the US with rose petals for it. Especially with 8 million not even having running water or bathrooms or waste removal.
yeah, things are going swimmingly. for the sake of four oil companies, we are literally killing an entire country. over a million dead already and neither side discussed the Iraqi condition as a reason to end the lie-based so-called war. As far as I'm concerned, they are both full of schitt.
Gen, Smedley Butler had it right!
Those of us who are old enough to remember will have an odd sensation while listening to this, what might be called "Deja Nam". Hanlon lends strategic signifigance to events that are, at best, modest tactical successes. I heard this jackass on NPR yesterday and was stunned by his willful dissassociation from reality. The sad thing is, the redstate goobers will eat this shit up and ask for second helpings.
wow, someone from the right complaining about "stooping to this level" had me rolling on the floor.
One of the biggest enemies to the people of the USA is it's 'corporate/ repiglican' media .. as worse as those that promote terrorism itself. The corporate/repiglican media should be tried, convicted, and jailed for purposefull, criminal, fraud against the american people. Corporate sluts like Brian Williams, Katie Couric, Charles Gibson, all the 'pundit pimps' on cable 'news' minus Keith Oberman, should be 'frogged marched' out of their corporate offices/ studios and put right into prison...along with their million dollar paydays that come along with the faustian deals they have made in order to be among the 'media elite'.
The Authors of that article made the talkshow circuit yesterday and they said that they didn't and wouldn't have chosen the title "A war We just might Win".
They said the title was chosen by the Times Editor and that they themselves had a hard time defining what "winning" in Iraq would actually mean. Sounds like the editor is the probably the same guy who published all of the Judith Miller bullshit peaces on the war.
blue @ 55:
If they're frog marched, won't they keep bumping their head against the police car roof?
So which branch did/does this able bodied young man serve in? How many tours of duty has he completed in Iraq and/or Afghanistan?
Reading O'Hanlon's article-it starts out by praising America's military effort and everything is A.O.K. By the time the reader vomits and throws down the paper in disgust---Hanlow covers his ass--it's bad. It's Howdy Doody Time Children :(
When the majority of Americans think the Rethugs. are habitually lying about this civil war they must do what they do best LIE, LIE, LIE, and bullshit.
the bullshit excuses and cheerleading never relents!
breakspear @ 22:
I just listened to Bill Moyers' Buying the War--got it from iTunes. (If you're not a subscriber yet, I'd encourage all of you to sign up!!) I'd be willing to bet this is exactly what happened here.
Michael O’Hanlon of the Brookings Institute
Is he under lock and key at the institute?
He should be - and not let out into the public.
I remember institutions from 60 years ago and people there were considered dangerous to the general population. Seems nothing has changed.
O'Hanlon cherry-picked data? Wow, really? Where have I seen that before?
Not only cherry picking information, but outright designs to quash information from coming to the public's attention... the real Bu$h Whitehouse modus operandi...
To see just how crazy this all is, check out this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2138236,00.html
I listened to the whole thing. Where was the personal attack! What a baby (read right wing tool).
LOL, notice O'Hanlon said "It deserves a few more months of effort". WTF, is there a single one of these nuts who hasn't predicted one F.U. After another. This is amazing, just a few more months, then a few more critical months, then two more months, then three more months ... WHEN IS THE GODDAMN MEDIA GOING TO CALL THEIR BLUFF?
I will believe there is progress in Iraq when one of these war cheerleaders goes for an unescorted and unarmed drive through Baghdad, preferrably in a convertible.
If the Bush-bots think that Iraq is so safe, why aren't they signing up to serve there?
If Iraq is such a lovely place now, why are there so many refugees? Why aren't they going home?
Whoop-de-doo, O'Hanlon spent 8 days in Iraq. I'm so sick of this stupid point being constantly made as though it signifies so much gravitas. I workes as a civilian contractor in Iraq for three years, but I would never dare claim that it gave me any special insight. I guarantee O'Hanlon in his eight days wasn't mingling with the Iraqi populace or even going into a single Iraqi home or public space. What he did was stay 90% of the time within the confines of the ultra-protected US military bases and then spend a few days in the green zone under the guard of massive armed escorts. These people are dropping in just like Bush dropped into the Katrina area. It doesn't mean anything.
maybe they could do an op ed after they watch this piece about the situation for the people not the politions in Iraq. Please watch!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Zb-g0XlJI
The MSM is always trotting assholes like this out and declaring them "long time war critics," when in fact they have been cheerleaders all along.
Bret Maverick McCain is another whose current support of the Surge is supposedly legitimized by his previous Maverick-like opposition to that war. Trouble is, McCain has always cheerleaded the war. Oh, he will bitch that he could have done it better than Bush, but he lies if he says he ever offered any meaningful opposition to Bush at any time.
Wow, Tim Russert has aged...
When is that old sing-song 'just give it a few more months' going to finally get old. They have been saying a few more more months for a few years now. I can remember at the beginning of the war they were trying to disarm the the population so militias wouldn't form, now they want to give them weapons, but only the Sunnis. At least I guess we now know which side our soldiers are fighting on. Bush said in his press conference with Prime Minister Brown, "you can't force freedom onto a people", then exactly what is he forcing upon them, other than American control? The seeds of this civil war that is going on in Iraq have been there for a thousand of years. When Bush invaded them he allowed those seeds to grow. Bush will not end this madness on his watch because it look as if he has admitted defeat. His whole presidency has been built on the invasion of Iraq and the 'war on terror'. If he budges one iota while he in office, in his mind, his presidency has failed. He won't admit that his mis-Administration was failed a very long time ago.
Cheney and Bush need to be dragged out of the White House kicking and screaming in shackles and orange jumpsuits and their worthless asses thrown into prison. Because of them and this madness in the Middle East it is going to take a long time for our country to regain any modicum of respect internationally and to glean away all the extraordinary powers from the executive branch they have collected and give power back to the People.
Greenwald, as always, has good stuf fon this:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
Is O'Hanlon the kid who used to be on "Growing Pains"?
We're seeing more and more pleas for extending the Iraq occupation. Which some of these folks just refuse to call it. There is a huge difference between War and Occupation!
Since the beginning of this Iraq invasion, we have been pushed back and back and then extended and then surge to over 3,000 US military deaths. So the Iraqi Government can go on vacation and play soccor.
Cheney may have to accept the fact that the Iraqi Government is not going to sign the PSA's as proposed by the Bush Adm. They are not happy with the new Iraqi constitution set up by extreme neo cons. Haliburton moved its HQ to Dubai because it plans on being the real government of Iraq as soon as the PSA's get signed.
We are going to see more Heritage Foundation, Brookings institute, and all the other neocon funded think tanks come out with Billy Kristol and the PNAC'ers time and again till they get what they want.
It is not about the Iraqi people or spreading freedom and democracy. That is headline cheerleading for their real intentions.
Confusing But Truth Seeps Out
Concerning this video, the left was given a lot to work with,relating to content, but they must first sort out and make simple as possible the dynamics flowing out of Iraq.These are some "deep," misleading, and well constructed lies coming from president Bush and his Generals and I guarantee the average person will not understand a dam bit of it.
When the president first started talking about progress in Anbar Province, most people never heard of the place. That being said, the media could of told Americans we were beating all enemies, Al Qaeda included, in Anbar, and no one would challenge the army's assertion untold progress was being made. To date, three US soldiers were killed in Anbar Province yesterday. Actually, with what we have resorted to in Anbar, I am surprised the Bush administration and his army Generals did not try and distance themselves from their ugly involvement in Anbar province.
Anbar is a horror waiting to blow up in our faces. I think we have went too far and we might of created the same cycle of insurgency plaguing the rest of Iraq. You would think the US would of learned by now you can't support the genocidal elimination of any combatants fighting in Iraqi's civil conflict, without a relative lead cycle of insurgents ready to kill Americans. You just cannot go around killing people's children, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers without a blow back. You can bet you will hear of many more Americans dying in Anbar.
The actions we called progress in nothing but support for a modern day killing field and Bush and his Generals know it. This is not the same country we were before Bush came into office. I cannot watch any films showing military dynamics without thinking of what we have did in the name of helping others.
Joseph
Hopefully, people will be paying attention to little facts like these come Sept:
You can't 'win' a lost war of conquest. I look forward to seeing the US Military Government Media 'brought to justice' for war crimes against humanity
Yes. The situation is getting better in Iraq. It has gone from "Hell on Earth" to "A situation that you would not wish on your worst enemy".
He says, "It warrants a couple of extra months effort". WTF? How long are they going to keep parroting this? In a couple of months the situation will probably be upgraded to "really really really really really really really really shitty".
This one of the great deceptive con jobs the main stream media pulls on a daily bases, they define who the liberal or critic is, and he or she usually isn't and the critic of bush is the guy who doesn't think enough troops for the occupation have been sent or he wants to move the Boot of American Imperialism from the back to the Neck .
It's the same reason you WON'T see Noam Chomsky on MSM, instead we get Reagan's military liaison to Saddam Hussein, who helped him with military tactics,Lt. Col. Rick Fracona on NBC, as an "military analyst" and who reported that Fracona was in iraq during Iran/Iraq war, aiding the guy who "gassed the kurds", the London Times, you can't get that information in this pathetically bad media. It's all a con job by the media, Dan Goure on NBC from another far right think thank, another "military analyst ", General Grange, General so and so.
Of COURSE the REAL critic of george bush's Iraq policy would be a Scott Ritter, Greg Palast, Ray McGovern CIA analyst . or Chomsky, all of which would speak truth to power, but they AIN'T on because The COWARDLY, COMPLICIT MSM in the U.S. won't admit they were WRONG about the Invasion of Iraq , and won't put themselves in the position to be challenged and fear even a discussion .
Pollack and O'Hanlon are obviously shills for the military industrial complex , selling fear and misinformation and since everybody wins on their side, CNN gets their "shock & Awe" sanitized pictures, sells the terrorism scare daily , as does NBC and the rest, and the military or police state necons profit from mercenary money and weapons .
The real scary thing is from a former KGB agent , in Russia they knew Pravda was lying all the time, and never believed anything they ever said, he said here, most people think they are getting the truth in the main steam , when they are lying and utilizing propaganda more successfully here .
The only policy that will work is for us to leave Iraq and get an Arab face on things in the country. We tell Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and all the mid-eastern countries I didn't mention and you tell them, get in there, help them rebuild their country their way, we will offer supplies and money (becuase we broke it we bought it - Powell) we also tell them, you start any bullshit in Iraq and we are not going to fight you in baghdad we are going to bring you to an international court and we'll see how you fair in the worlds eyes.
But this will never happen as long as any Republican is involved in it, they only see profit and don't care about the means or the ends, they just want the moneys...and that is why Republicans are anti-American, becuase America stand for justice for ALLand Republicans hate that idea. They believe it should be justice for the ones who can afford it and screw all the rest. Well, ya Dipshits, you get what you vote for, hope you don't have to declare bankrupcy, it's same for all of us now.
Also we need to elevate the level of eduction in this country, far too many people leave school without a real idea of what opportunities might await them, so they settle for the waitress job, or the Micky-D's job or working in a field or a warehouse or some other type of physical labor without ever realizing there is a better way out there. and at this time the game is so stacked against us, knowing it's out there isn't enough, we need a level playing field...another thing Republicans hate. I think the world equal is Republican kryptonite.
Damn, I have been babbling and babbling...if your still reading this Thank You :) but if not, I understand.
Gman @ 80:
doesn't it strike anyone as ironic that not one of these jackass's who say "we just need a few more lives and a few more billion and a few more months" never seem to say anything about the fact that the Iraqi politicians are taking a summer vacation. you wanna ask WTF? I say we stick the F up Republican's butts, these people are impossible. But even worse then that, after what our Democratic House and Senate have seen and heard and learned about this White House's crimes and shenanigans that they are going to take a summer vacation? are you shitting me? Were these people off the planet when Dick&George snuck their Bolton's and Myer's and Lane's and Woodley's and Pipes's and Pearson's...(the list goes on and on) through recess appointments?
I'm really thinking the best course of action would be to sack the whole bunch of them, Republicans and Democrats and Independents and everything, eleminate the electoral college and the parties and just start fresh. No money to run for office, it is still the public air waves we should be able to see all the candidate equally, not this one bought some air time over here, this one bought even more air time, or that one has his movies playing on other channels when he(she) is running for office, etc. etc. Oh America, how did we make such a mess of you?
miss_kitty @ 58:
Third Keyboard Commandos Division. He served eight weeks on green zone coffee duty.
Otay @ 84:
Sorry, should be eight days on green zone coffee duty.
Can you imagine what would be happening now if the Democratic Party
had not won the November elections? But there's no difference, right?
Both parties are controlled by big money and corporations, right?
So lets all vote third party independent(with Lieberman running as VP)
and get another Republican administration in 08, right? *snark*
This message has been approved by Adam Sandler and da older comedian guy wid da purple hair.
jr @ 1:
Yeah the iraq war may have lasted longer than ww2 with approximately 1/100th of the casualties big deal. Learn your history before you display your ignorance
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