Jonah Goldberg Endorses Jim Crow
I swear he earns his nickname every single time he says anything.
Why Is Jonah Goldberg A Complete Idiot?
If you want to know one big reason why the newspaper industry is in the toilet, look no further than the Los Angeles Times. After years of browbeating from well-financed conservatives about their "liberal bias", newspapers like the L.A. Times feel compelled to be "fair and balanced" by giving column inches in their paper to random conservative idiots who don't know dick. The L.A. Times decided to give their shingle to Jonah Goldberg, editor of the right-wing National Review. And so, in one of the major papers in the country, Goldberg is given lots of column inches to mull over the really brilliant idea that we ought to test people before they go to the polls.
Instead of making it easier to vote, maybe we should be making it harder. Why not test people about the basic functions of government? Immigrants have to pass a test to vote; why not all citizens?A voting test would point the arrow of civic engagement up, instead of down, sending the signal that becoming an informed citizen is a valued accomplishment.
Golly gee whillikers, Mistah Goldberg, why don't we have tests at the polls here in America? Although, I seem to remember a historical precedent for just such a thing. Why did this noble experiment not continue through until the modern day? Let's go on to the Internets and check it out. Oooh, here we go Mister Goldberg, here's the historical precedent for your idiotic moronic stupid-ass idea the Los Angeles Times printed up in a newspaper they actually sold to people for actual federally-backed U.S. currency: Read on...
Matt Ortega asks that if by his own definition, Jonah just declared himself unfit to vote.
1st.
Oh, is Jonah moving out of Mama's Penthouse this year?
Say Good Night Dick.
I'm tired of these racial monarchists getting high profile writing gigs
Fantastic idea! We should have more guidelines restricting people who can vote. The top of my list would be "Do you shed tears of happiness when Israel launches an offensive?" Sorry, no ballot for you. Pie in the sky bullshit is not a legitimate principle to vote on.
When the masses it vote, it doesn't favor the reich-wing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7yH0IgPMRQ
"Why not test people about the basic functions of government? Immigrants have to pass a test to vote; why not all citizens?A voting test would point the arrow of civic engagement up, instead of down, sending the signal that becoming an informed citizen is a valued accomplishment."
Jonah, don't you realize that the first person to be stricken from the voting rolls would probably be President Bush? The current government is either naturally or willfully ignorant of "the basic functions of government."
So he doesn't want conservatives to be able to vote?
I suggest columnists should be required to pass an IQ test. That'd send the signal that being an informed citizen is a valued accomplishment.
Fuck head. Frist.
oy. not even close.
The mistake here is the idea that the more literate and cultured the political society, the more enlightened their political views. The Nazis should have put that notion to rest.
Obviously Jonah failed the intelligence test...
I've heard worse ideas. Maybe this would eliminate the shitheads who think it's funny to write in "Mighty Mouse."
If this closes the door on people who don't take it seriously....so be it.
If being stupid disqualifies you from voting, what about holding office?
You know who I'm talking about.
"Like a Rock - only dumber."
"A village in Texas is missing an idiot."
I simply can't believe the fast track they have this country on into the past.
These people need psychiatric examinations - they're simply not credible in any way - they're bouncing-off-the-walls CRAZY.
*
Actually, there already IS a test to qualify to vote in our elections, to wit: If you think there should be a test, you've just failed it.
Tell me again why this guy isn't doing his patriotic duty taking up arms in iraq?
word to moniker @ #6.
one of the major reasons Bush won in 2004 was because of misinformed voters who believed Saddam managed the project to attack America on 9/11. one has to assume that someone that stupid would also have no idea that Congress is actually the President's boss.
citing Jim Crow laws is historically significant to the article, but I think the irony is that an opposite effect would take place. I think more poor & disenfranchised are much more aware of detailed goings-on of government, politics and policies - than the white, well-to-do upper middle class Christian conservative types.
I'm sure the LA Times will be saturated with comparable musings.
Speaking of the National Review, I saw an ad on CNN for it. Um, is there such a word as 'readyer'?
Let's really think through this. Who knows less about the constitution than Republicans and Conservatives. Who has spent the last 50 years dumbing down our educational systems, to the point where the biggest debate is over evolution and intelligent design(creationsim). I think Mr. Goldberg migh want to rethink when he considers the level of understanding of the constitution, the foundation of American democracy laid out by the founding fathers, and the civic functions of government in its citizens everyday lives. If the public were required to be informed on these issues, Republicans would be wiped out of all chambers in all governments, state, local, and federal. If people who vote actually understand you don't elect politicians simply because they are against abortion, gay marriage, and other conservative religious issues, he might rethink his proposal. My point is this basic fact. Republicans benefit with a dumbed down public. A public who debates evolution and intelligent design, a public who votes on a single issue, and a public who believes the Ronald Reagan mandate, which is Government is bad. For if we ever get back to sensible government, which answers to the public, and not corporations or religious ideologues, we might begin to turn this ship around. I would love it if we actually got back to educating the voting public about the constitution, the founding history of America, and the role of government and the citizens in a fully functioning Democracy. Maybe then we might actually have a functioning government. Not one run purely on ideology.
Uh - OK. Lemme get this straight. This guy supports a war whose chief goal is to create a democratic government in a Middle Eastern former dictatorship, with the larger objective of democratizing the entire region.
He vigorously defends the loss of 3,000 American lives and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives in pursuit of democracy.
Meanwhile, he wants to limit the right to vote in America to those who can pass a test, presumably written by people like him.
Do Iraqis have to pass a test? Or is this requirement reserved only for Americans?
ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In California people have to pass a civics course to graduate from high school; I expect most states have similar requirements. Isn't this fool aware of that?
Udon Nomee @ 15:
Funny line, except no one is giving me a reason why voters shouldn't have to pass a basic test to vote.
If you're too stupid to name the three branches of government, you shouldn't be anywhere near a voting booth.
Perhaps this would put an end to the current endless appeals to the lowest common denominator. Maybe we could stop worrying about how much John Edwards pays for a haircut.
Is our children learning?
Sadly, not, apparently.
Before we test people to vote, I'd vote for testing parents' ability to raise children who do not grow up to be Jonah Goldberg.
Shorter Jonah (Doughy Pantload) Goldberg:
Must we give these authoritarian masochists the enormous megaphones?
Wouldn't work: 2 reasons
1. In Chicago and St. Louis you'd have to dig up a lot of dead people to administer the test.
2. In order to answer the questions, people must be able to read the questions: thanks to our wonderful liberal education system, in the last 40 years they forgot to teach reading and writing, so don't go there either.
Instead of bemoaning the ignorance of the average voter, why doesn't Jonah devote some of his precious column inches to informing them about exactly those things about which he finds them so ignorant.
Oh, and here's a suggestion for the first such column: The history of Jim Crow, and the long tradition of disenfranchisement and voter suppression in America.
The Truth Hurts @ 23:
Perhaps there should be a test before one is allowed to post comments on a thread. They must have followed all the links in the original post. Like, for example, this one:
http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/history/creating2.htm
It's not the "truth" that is hurting, its your cognitive dissonance.
I always find it interesting when a member of one minority group wants to discriminate against other minorities. I wonder what his late Jewish father would think of limiting the rights of American citizens to vote based on discrimination? I wonder what Jonah's immigrant forebears would think of such ideas? It seems Hitler's Germany also started restricting the rights of certain groups to have a say in government based on narrow definitions of citizenship and even humanity. In my opinion, Jonah Goldberg is creepy.
The Truth Hurts @ 23:
Hmmm...okay.
Reason 1: Because they are citizens, and the result of the vote will affect them.
The real problem is not the 'ignorance' of voters, but the corruption, bribery and influence of money in the political system. If you want to fix the system, forget exclusionary tests, and bring on public financing of campaigns, and congressional ethics reform.
scruzman @ 27:
Is there a link to this post on the NRO site?
I think you meant "wonderfully underfunded education system".
I'm shocked to learn that people writing in "Mighty Mouse" is a big problem in this country. Now that I know that, I say that The Truth Hurts has a valid point. No election official should ever suffer the indignity of having to discount a vote for "Mighty Mouse"!
I propose the following:
Every year for "election" every American gets a special "Electorial Number" which will define the role the citizen will have in the government for the following year. 1=President 2=Vice President ..... 99999=private citizen, etc.
All state, federal, and local governmental posts previously held by politicians, their henchmen and political appointees will be filled this way. All American citizens will be required to fill their elected position and perform their civic duty when "elected".
There will be no political parties, no debates, no commercials, no need to lie, etc.
This will be a far better technique for selecting our government leaders than we have today. Unlike today, we will be almost guaranteed to have leaders that are honest and decent people. It would also mean we would not have to listen to all of the political noise we are subjected to daily in this country.
Nah, no one will buy that.
Freaked-Out Canadian @ 10:
I would not consider most of the Nazi high command to be literate and cultured, nor should anyone with a decent grasp of history. These were a gang of thugs, miscreants and reactionaries and nothing more. Do not consider Goering cultured just because he knew what art to steal.
Hmmm...
A tax on fast food would point the arrow of responsible eating up, instead of down, sending the signal that becoming less of a lard-ass is a valued accomplishment.
I think all of Pantload's columns should be converted to Madlibs.
Isn't Goldberg Jewish? Maybe he would like a religious test as part voting qualification also?
Well, so much for the stereo type.
What the hell, women don't pay attention to politics what with all their house-cleanin' and grocery shoppin'. And apartment dwellers sure don't pay attention to politics either. I know some people who live in an apartment, and they think we didn't find WMDs in Eye-rack. So they're out.
I say, only land-owning males get to vote.
Whaddaya say?
spit take @ 38:
I think "land-owning white males with proper education and ideology" would more fit Pantload's utopia.
spit take @ 38:
We didn't find WMDs in Eye Wacky.
Let them know how you feel.
letters@latimes.com
jgoldberg@latimescolumnists.com
readers.rep@latimes.com
I think everyone running for office take a test that applies to that office, and make them take a lie detector test to see if they are trust worthy and not a republican plant in dems clothing!
Don't expect any kind of renaissance of great minds and thinkers to emerge from the new Right Wing Neocon Era.
Obviously there's no aptitude test for being editor of the National Review.
What you expect from a paper owned by Real Estate Billionaire Sam Zell?
A fabulous proposal. And while we're at it, why not make sure that voters are materially invested in their votes so as to discourage frivolous voting? We could require potential voters to pay some sort of fee or tax when they go to the polls. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?
Old Billy@29
Using Jim Crow to prove your point defeats the purpose: Discriminatory Jim Crow laws applied to a small minority; testing all citizens does not discriminate.
I'd say there should be a test to become president, but that would give unfair advantage to liberals. The idiots cons would sue for equal rights..
The Truth Hurts @ 23:
According to who?
scruzman @ 27:
So, the education system is now "liberal"? Jebus, reich-wingers really are a desperate and pathetic bunch.
Dr. Matt @ 50:
Of course it's liberal! They teach facts, thinking skills and reading comprehension! Duh! What more evidence do you need? All of those things are liberally biased.
When it comes to guns, reich-wingers throw an utter hissy and scream aloud their usual rant about the Constitution. But, when it comes to rights regarding voting, women, minorities, etc., etc., reich-wingers would gladly burn those portions of the Constitution. Talk about the most anti-American group of losers.
Dr. Matt @ 49:
Actually, Dr. Matt, it's "According to whom?"
BAM! You're disenfranchised!
scruzman @ 47:
Who is writing the test?
Where in the constitution do the authors indicate that only persons of specific training/knowledge/intelligence are elligible to be citizens?
Part of me is appalled at the thought of re-introducing poll tests that would hearken back to the days of Jim Crow. Another part of me would love to see Bill O'Reilly get marched out of a polling place because he doesn't know who perpetrated the Malmedy massacre.
The Truth Hurts @ 12:
PLEASE educate yourself on the history of this stupidity BEFORE you write something like this, OK?
My father's family is from the deep south and to this day they spout crap about how only "the right kind of people" should vote.
I heard about these tests when I was growing up in WI from my father. Things like "read this paragraph from this state law and tell me what it means." Hell, I have a college education and I can't interpret most of the crap written by our lawmakers.
Effin stupid.
Draft Official US Government Voter Qualification Test:
1) Fred Flintstone and his pet dinosaur are:
a) fictional Saturday morning cartoon characters
b) based on real historical characters who couldn't help it if they were born before Jesus
2) Separation of Church and State is:
a) a wise and necessary component of American democracy; mandated in the Constitution
b) a Godless Liberal plot
3) Unlimited Executive Privilege is:
a) what presidents hide behind when they want to abuse the Constitution
b) how Jesus would rule if He were president
4) Impeachment:
a) is a necessary means to get rid of presidents who abuse their powers and break the law
b) only applies to Democrats
5) Homosexuality:
a) is a natural gender orientation, affecting 2 - 5% of humans
b) a sin that will go away if you ignore it and pray hard enough
6) Conservative scandals:
a) should be fully and impartially investigated
b) are really Clinton's fault
scruzman @ 47:
psst, by the way, I wasn't using Jim Crow to prove my point. Nicole, Oliver Willis, and Matt Ortega were.
where's his chin?
I'm not going to bother writing anything deep because I didn't read and won't read the article. But if anyone out there has seen Better Off Dead with John Cusak, I think they will recognize the picture used in this article...it's RICKY!!!
Crisco = fat in the can.
No sweat. If we apply the current grading system used in schools these days, if you get one out of three branches of government, you pass. If you don't get any branches of government, you still pass, because you tried, at least.
scruzman @ 27:
Hey, I'm a product of our "liberal" education system (whatever that means). I didn't graduate no where near 40 years ago and I read enough of your idiotic comments to write how retarded you are.
Jonah Goldberg is an embarrassment to the jewish community. His best friends George W and Dick Cheney are not what America is about.
Why aren't you in Iraq fighting the "noble" cause, Mr. Goldberg? You chickenhawk yellow elephants are idiots.
Vysotsky @ 46:
You know, Vysotsky, you're on to something here.
And if voters really couldn't pass the test, and didn't have sufficient property or financial assets to pay the fee or tax, it would mean that they probably couldn't do very sophisticated jobs, or house themselves.
You know how there's always a labour shortage for agricultural and domestic jobs? The ones filled by illegal immigrants that cause all the problems?
Well, maybe the people who fail the test, and don't have much money, or decent places to live could work out some arrangement whereby they could live on the really big farms, or on private estates, and be given some kind of accomodation and food in lieu of money. Of course, they'd have to agree to some kind of lifetime contract or such.
Sure, it would be a burden on the land-owning class, but it would probably be much better for these poor, illiterate and impoverished wretches. If only I could think of a name for such a system?
Hmmmm....
I agree with many others -- if such a test were required, almost all the right-wing GOP voters would flunk.
Bring it on.
Blahblahblah @ 60:
ROFL!!!
Ricky versus Jonah
Blahblahblah @ 60:
You like raisins... don't you?
Dr. Matt @ 67:
He got new glasses!
That is one ugly balloon animal.
MisterMix@63
"Hey, I’m a product of our “liberal” education system (whatever that means). I didn’t graduate no where near 40 years ago and I read enough of your idiotic comments to write how retarded you are."
Thank you for proving my point.
Affirmative action for pasty white, fat mamas' boys.
"Gee Ricky, I'm sorry your Mom blew up"
----
"He kept on putting his testicles all over me!"
scruzman @ 71:
You had a point? LOL. You just seem be ranting over some nonsensical tangent like a typical reich-winger. I'm willing to bet you're an 8th year senior in high school and you figured you would blame libruls like a typical reich-winger.
Oh! Ugh! Outrageous! This is pure snow! It's everywhere!
Do you know what the street value of this mountain is????
someone tell Jonah Goldberg that the real problem should be to figure out how to correctly count the votes and get rid of the electoral system. not excluding more people from voting. and how about allowing the entire city of DC in on their voting rights btw.
scruzman @ 71:
To burnt @17: You said "one has to assume that someone that stupid would also have no idea that Congress is actually the President’s boss."
Um, "F" on your report card. Congress is not the President's boss. Congress is one of three equal branches, at least it was until Bush became President.
(I'm surprised it's 40+ comments later and no one else pointed this out. Sign up here for a refresher course in Government 101.)
LOL Dr. Matt...someone's watched it as much as I!
And last but not least...
"I want my two dollars!"
Isn't he only notable because his mother is a contemptable whore?
Dr Matt@74
"You had a point? LOL. You just seem be ranting over some nonsensical tangent like a typical reich-winger. I’m willing to bet you’re an 8th year senior in high school and you figured you would blame libruls like a typical reich-winger."
Sorry, 8th year in 6th grade where I get to write words like liburls and reich and think "Boy, am I pretty smart!"
scruzman @ 71:
if bush went to the same public education that i went through we wouldn't be in this dumbass war right now. if you went through the same education i had, then you wouldn't be a blog troll. i would say thank goodness for "liberal" education.
Freaked-Out Canadian @ 65:
That's smart thinking! But if these people lack the education and money to competently vote, how can they possibly enter into a legitimate contract? I mean, are they really citizens if they're not capable of fulfilling all the responsibilities of citizenship? Now don't get me wrong -- I'm not suggesting that these people aren't citizens. It's just they're insufficient as citizens on 2 counts. So if we subtract those 2 fractions of citizenship, they'd be more like, say, 3/5 citizens.
I'm telling you, we're on to something really big here.
Masta' Goldberg?
I think not!
With so many fine right/conservative writers including; Thomas DiLorenzo, Uri Avnery, Paul Craig Roberts, William Lind (the list goes on...), even Patrick Buchanan, just why did the LAT hire the cowardly Whale?
For all the racist hate/finger-pointing blame/warmongering this asshole spews which, BTW is his God given right under the US Constitution, the Whale never offers any viable solutions.
Firstly Whale, Who the hell is going to pay for this massive Federal Election Testing Program?
We're fighting a war remember? One we can barely feed enough $$$$$$$$$'s to now.
Second Whale, Can you create a test that only God could pass?
Show one of these items folks; Voters' Registration Card, Drivers License/ State ID Card, birth certificate or social security card and that is all you need to vote. When I poll my driver license needs shown. Others show the VRC, SS Card or BC.
If anyone out there in Cyberspace knows of any other form(s) of acceptable ID used for voting please post it here. The more American's that can vote, the stronger America will be. Help your neighborhood register to group if, you are able. If not, just be sure you all register yourself and family.
Voting should not be hard. They (Republicans) already stole two elections. Don't let them steal the basic Constitutional right to vote.
FUCK YOU WHALE.
if bush went to the same public education that i went through we wouldn't be in this dumbass war right now. if you went through the same education i had, then you wouldn't be a blog troll. i would say thank goodness for "liberal" education.
It makes me wish Yale had tests in the 60s to determine who should enter rather than letting just anyone attend regardless of knowledge or intelligence.
Thinking Person @ 79:
This validates my idea that most people don't read the thread, they just want to be heard about what they think of an issue.
But actually you were wrong also. The recent addition of teh Cheney branch of government came into power moving it up to 4 branches, and it is quite possible it will be just teh Cheney branch in charge of everything soon.
That's my nickle...
Vysotsky @ 84:
You, know, Vysotsky, it's that kind of entrepreneurial thinking that made America great. Of course, you're right. How could they possibly read or understand their own contracts, and the benefits that accrued to them through their...
hmmm...I'm still having trouble finding the right word...'workery', 'laboury'...
anyway, you're absolutely right. It would make complete sense for whomever they worked for to manage that contract. Then, that owner could also transfer that contract to some other landowner or businessmen - you, know, just like in sports teams and such. Of course, some of these test-failing, landless, non-tax paying beneficiaries of this system might try to just take off without working, after they'd eaten food and used the lodgings and stuff. So there'd have to be some people to track them down and return them till they had paid off their contract with work.
I mean, you can be pretty sure that some of them would make a run for Canada, where any of them who've watched Sicko will know they can get free health care and live in a socialist dream on welfare and all.
Yep, we'd need a system to bring them back. But we'd need an incentive too. Like dating! We could distribute the males and females equally, so that pretty much every guy would have a girl. That's make them happy.
You know, Vysotsky, it's amazing how an insightful (wow, have you ever noticed how 'inciteful' and 'insightful' sound alike!) thinker like Jonah can help all of us dream up new, useful, efficient ways of solving todays modern problems!
Thanks, Jonah.
d0n Camillo @ 86:
it makes me wish yale applied their admission standards equally across the board instead of allowing people in based on who's related to their alumni.
btw, what was bush's jr.'s GPA at yale again?
Like all plans by stupid people this one will fail. Maybe the LA times forgot that it was found that the immigrates know more about American history and US Government then Americans do. So if the plan is to test people before voting it looks like most Americans wont be able to vote but immigrates and new American citizens will. I laugh at this article because before Blacks could vote a White lady who couldn't read or write told a educated Black lawyer he couldn't vote because blacks can't read. Then he asked for the voting application and asked her a question and she said she couldn't read but could vote because she was White. The Black lawyer then explained what was on the application to her. Oh those good old days will come back.
Salmineo @ 37:
I have surround sound myself.
spit take @ 38:
Study HIStory - Been there, done that.
L.A. Confidential @ 43:
From a party full of Luddites and Flat Earth Society types?
Not hardly.
myiq2xu @ 92:
Irony, dear myiq2xu, irony.
Blahblahblah @ 80:
Pfffft, that's too easy. :)
Blahblahblah @ 60:
"Well look at that. Somebody's throwing away a perfectly good white boy."
scruzman @ 82:
Wow, you're learned to blame libruls for your own failings in 6th grade! Congrats.
Why is Jonah Goldberg an Idiot?
Hmh, any of you know his mother?
DrMatt@97
"Wow, you’re learned to blame libruls for your own failings in 6th grade! Congrats."
...you're learned to blame libruls...
Thank you for proving my point, again.
Dear Mr. Goldberg:
Thanks for the thoughtful piece. Now I'll anxiously await your follow-up essays in support of bringing back poll taxes, a new law requiring all voters to own property, and the repeal of the 19th Amendment.
Sweet jesus, how does this guy keep his job?
To which branch of government does the Constitution assign the power to declare war?
Are the president's officers entitled to ignore a Congressional subpoena?
How does the Constitution specifically define executive privilege?
Which part of the Constitution allows the president to issue a line item veto?
Can the Congress impeach a cabinet secretary?
Under what conditions is a defendant entitled to a fair trial?
What rights are specifically extended to the president by the Constitution during a "time of war"?
What is the Constitutional significance of a signing statement made by the president?
What free speech protections does the Constitution grant specifically inside a fenced-in First Amendment Zone?
What is the Fifteenth Amendment?
nirak @ 98:
Don't look at me, I never met her! I swear he's not my kid.
Would baby Jonah even have been given the time of day if Mommy hadn't surfaced as a "pundit" during the Clinton impeachment days?
What a maroon...
MillionthMonkey @ 101:
I swear I didn't look up any of the answers, this is off the top of my head:
Legislative
Not in the Constitution, but no.
Nowhere in the Constitution
Nowhere in the Constitution
Yes
When charged with a crime - Jury trial for misdemeanors, felonies and lawsuit over $20
Commander and Chief of Army, issue letters of marque, suspend habeas corpus in case of invasion or insurrection
None
specifically -none
Direct election of senators
How did I do? do I get to vote?
maxcat06 @ 103:
Looks more like pink to me.
Jonah Goldberg: aka Poppin Fresh Zionist
When Linda Tripp was taping the phone convervation between herself and Monica Lewinsky when Monica was talking about Bill Clinton, it was Jonah's momma in the background popping gum when Monica asked Linda "What's that clicking sound"?
Freaked-Out Canadian @ 88:
I like "laboury" myself, but that doesn't quite capture the magnanimous and generous spirit of those who would go to such pains to care for people without sufficient property and education, to manage their lives and families, and and to provide those people with purpose through meaningful work. Maybe something like "Human Husbandry"? It's got a nice ring to it.
As for Jonah Goldberg, this column bodes well for those of us who anxiously anticipate the release of his new book, "Liberal Fascism: The Totalitarian Temptation from Hegel to Whole Foods" in December. I can think of no other contemporary intellectual better qualified to tackle the challenge of developing a nuanced critique of Hegel and analyzing his contemporary influence upon Whole Foods and contemporary American liberalism.
Goldberg poll question number 1:
Which wine goes best with brie?
Bush Bites @ 109:
He calls it "Freedom Fromage," but by the look of him, he'll answer "Can I Mommy! Please please please?
That's his favorite whine.
With enemies like this, who need friends?
Blue Buddha @ 111:
"Fraulein! Schadenfruede und eine bier, bitte!"
I have a great question to screen voters with. Do you believe Iraq had anything to do with the 9/11 terrorist attacks? If they answer yes, NO VOTING FOR YOU!
scruzman @ 27:
Think you got that wrong. Schools did just fine teaching reading and writing until the conservatives started infiltrating the school boards in the late 70's and 80's amending curriculum to challege the teaching of science. Also the massive defunding of the Public School system to derail it, all the while bemoaning the failure of school's to teach our school. Classic conservatism, undermine something, then claim it doesn't work. Meanwhile, here's this wonderul new product called charter schools. Thing is they score lower than public schools. Hope this clears up your confusion on how our schools got screwed up, but then again, Republicans do not deal in facts, just ideology and hyperbole.
To Donald Strong @ 19:
"..., and the role of government and the citizens in a fully functioning Democracy. Maybe then we might actually have a functioning government. Not one run purely on ideology."
I agree - ideology really doesn't belong in government; but we are a Republic, not a Democracy and history will bear witness that our founding fathers never wanted a straight Democracy.
Is Murdock own the LA time? There is your answer! Stop buying that paper.
another Mike @ 115:
Are you saying that they wanted a gay democracy?
Ok... A few questions on the test for knowledge of current events should be:
1) Was Iraq involved in 9/11?
2) Did we find WMD in Iraq?
If they answer yes to any of those then they fail and can't vote. Fox news viewers would be cut out the system.
Yeah, Jonah. And the first time you and your kind are turned away at the polls because you didn't pass the test, you'll be screeching like two-year-olds with poopy diapers.
Oh wait.
You already ARE screeching like two year olds with poopy diapers... because... wait for it... you can't stand living in a democracy, so you suggest idiotic ideas like this.
good goin. We have a unit in Iraq that needs your meat, Goldberg. Get off yer wrinkly white ass and enlist. Now.
Seriously, did his mommy donate $100 million to the National Review or something like that?
Jonah Goldberg has no discernible talent - zero.
Why does this guy get published?
I don't get it.
How did I do? do I get to vote?
It would depend on whether the questions were prepared by a Loyal Bushie. If a Loyal Bushie prepares them, then it would completely flip the outcome for everybody. Those who answer the questions decide nothing; those who prepare the answers decide everything.
MillionthMonkey @ 121:
I get it.
"The Tao that can be talked about is not the Tao."
What is everyone bitching about???
This would erase the 26-29%ers from ever voting again! LMAO
A test would be costly and time consuming.
C'mon wingers, use your heads. You can already see what race they are when they show up, all you need now is for people to bring a W-2 and you can go from there.
"You must be THIIIIIS wealthy to vote."
Well, maybe ol' Jonah's right. We could ask people if they believe that Saddam had a hand in 9/11 or if we found WMD in Iraq. Anyone answering 'yes' wouldn't be able to vote. That would send "the signal that becoming an informed citizen is a valued accomplishment."
Donald Strong@114
"Think you got that wrong. Schools did just fine teaching reading and writing until the conservatives started infiltrating the school boards in the late 70’s and 80’s amending curriculum to challege the teaching of science. Also the massive defunding of the Public School system to derail it, all the while bemoaning the failure of school’s to teach our school. Classic conservatism, undermine something, then claim it doesn’t work. Meanwhile, here’s this wonderul new product called charter schools. Thing is they score lower than public schools. Hope this clears up your confusion on how our schools got screwed up, but then again, Republicans do not deal in facts, just ideology and hyperbole."
Well that's just all wrong. The problem is that teachers, and humanities students in general, graduating from college during the late 60's-early 70's, were/are spending their time smoking dope and protesting the war in now what is seen my most as the "grandest excuse to cut class in history". Simply, they did not learn their profession (but can spell Kumbaya), thereby dumbing down the system, the next generation of teachers, and the kids in the 70's ff. Charter schools, home schools far outpreform public schools except in sports and violence. NCLB is an attempt to return to sanity. Creationism is another "theory", like, say, Darwin's "theory" of evolution (Why don't we have eyes in the back of our head?". Just a theory that more people believe than Darwin's; why shouldn't it be taught? Teach it! Test Teachers First!
[Stupidity]
Bring back the poll tax! Take this standardized test! Prove your worth before you exercise the rights given to you under the constitution for nothing more than just being an American!!!
[/Stupidity]
FOR THE RECORD, HERE'S WHAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE LINKED ARTICLE:
"Literacy Tests: Tests used by the southern states to circumvent the 14th Amendment in the Jim Crow era through provisions that usually said an aspiring voter had to be able either to read any section of the state constitution or to understand that section when read to him. This was supposed to be a color-blind test that would apply to any male regardless of color; however, most southerners knew that the understanding part of the provision was, in fact, a loophole that would allow southern, illiterate whites to interpret the read sections to the satisfaction of the test-giver. Congress permanently banned these tests in 1975."
Don't forget this guy is the ...SPAWN OF LUCIANNE GOLDBERG!!!
scruzman @ 126:
Christ on a bike, obviously your teachers never taught you what a theory was. Creationism is not a theory because there is no way you can test it scientifically or otherwise. It is a myth, a fairytale or bullshit, as I like to call it. Evolution, well, it passes many tests, has quite a bit of evidence, and can be backed up. I have been to the Darwin exhibit at the Natural History Museum in London, and if I was stupid enough not to "believe" in evolution, then that would have convinced me. Do you believe in gravity? Thermodynamics? Relativity? Also, as far as eyes in the back of our heads, well, no animals I can think of have eyes in the backs of their heads; evolution does not mean things that would be convenient just magically appear. By the way, the history teacher I learned the most from was a so-called dope smoking hippie. Now I am going back on topic.
Of course Jonah Goldberg is talking absolute shite. Jeebus, my grandmother can remember the times when these tests were administered and strangely enough, no white people ever failed them. Every time I think I have heard the most ridiculous idea from some right-winger, another one comes along and tops it.
maldoror_is_ded_ded-ded @ 129:
And Arnold Ziffle
scruzman @ 126:
Oh, for starters, because it's not a scientific theory? Science does not seek to provide truth or to speculate about the purposes for which the universe exists -- it seeks only to ascertain facts, to describe the universe as rigorously as possible, and to develop testable theories and models that can be used to explain and predict phenomena. Creationism -- the belief that a creator created the universe and life within it -- holds absolutely no explanatory power for scientists interested in studying the laws of nature, since it hypothesizes a moment when those laws were established or changed by something scientifically unknowable outside the universe. It is a totally legitimate philosophical and religious matter, but it is not one of scientific study. One cannot, by definition, experimentally test a matter of faith.
Furthermore, even if teachers were to teach creationism, exactly which creationism(s) should they teach? There are a lot of religious accounts of how and why the universe and life within it were brought into existence: do you suggest that students be taught all of them? Wouldn't that take a while?
Finally, if you're serious about the "why don't we have eyes in the back of our head[s]" question, Darwin's answer would be simple: none of our ancestors had that heritable trait, so it was never available to us as an option.
Don't get me wrong here: I am very much in favor of religion. Science can provide us with knowledge about the state of things, but it cannot provide us with a moral basis for action in the world. This is why I don't understand calls to teach creationism alongside evolution -- the two are of totally different philosophical projects. Many scientists are religious and find no conflict between the two modes of understanding existence. In fact I believe it was Einstein who called his work an attempt to learn the mind of God.
Please do take the time to elaborate your position so I can better understand it. I really do want to know where you're coming from.
me_over_here@130
"Christ on a bike, obviously your teachers never taught you what a theory was. Creationism is not a theory because there is no way you can test it scientifically or otherwise. It is a myth, a fairytale or bullshit, as I like to call it. Evolution, well, it passes many tests, has quite a bit of evidence, and can be backed up. I have been to the Darwin exhibit at the Natural History Museum in London, and if I was stupid enough not to “believe” in evolution, then that would have convinced me. Do you believe in gravity? Thermodynamics? Relativity? Also, as far as eyes in the back of our heads, well, no animals I can think of have eyes in the backs of their heads; evolution does not mean things that would be convenient just magically appear. By the way, the history teacher I learned the most from was a so-called dope smoking hippie."
OK. If we evolved by adapting to the environment, then why don't we, and all creatures, have eyes in the back of our heads? Also what new creatures are crawling our of the water, onto the shores these days? Prove that it happening, as it should be under the testing the "theory". Can't prove it?...Argument falls apart and you do not get to vote next time.
scruzman @ 133:
Because adaptation is a process of natural selection. Heritable traits that aid in survival in a given environment are passed on to successive generations. Our ancestors had stereoscopic vision, not 360 degrees of vision. That's the Darwinian explanation. Period.
New creatures? None that I know of. There are these things called amphibians, though. They've been around for a while. And according to evolutionary theory, the idea would be that they share common ancestors with fish. Again, this is a really fundamental misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.
[Last line deleted per following post]
(Sorry -- please disregard the last line of my last post, which was a fragment of scruzman's earlier post that I forgot to delete.)
[I removed the last line-Sitemnoitor]
Republicans should be tested before they're allowed to have children.
"...Also what new creatures are crawling our of the water, onto the shores these days?"
I know a microbiologist who studies man-made lifeforms off the coast of Maine – seems all that crap we flush into the ocean creates life. That must make us somehow responsible for Repugnant lifeforms. Revolting development, I say.
There should be at least one voting test. If you believe in Creationism and the facticity of the Bible (or Koran or any other holy book) you should not be allowed to vote.
Dunno. If it keeps the mouth breathing 27% that thinks Bush & Co. are doing a good job outta the voting booth, how bad could it be? -snark
Be careful what you ask for there, Mr.
JonahGoober Goldberg. You would be disenfrancising pretty much all of the GOPer voters, yourself probably included. The GOP would surely lose all the mouthbreathers and propaganda-programmed morons who have demonstrated time and again that they are incapbable of thinking for themselves. With 80-90% of your voting base disqualified, it would be extremely difficult to explain how elections were rigged or stolen.scruzman @ 47:
I disagree. The Jim Crow laws requiring literacy to vote did not apply to a small minority. The laws applied to the entire population, but had a discriminatory effect in disenfranchising black voters who did not have access to adequate schools or were otherwise not educated enough to be able to read. Similarly, the test Mr. Goldberg proposes would also supposedly apply to all citizens but its effect would be to disenfranchise those less educated voters in this country who are not as privileged as Mr. Goldberg to have received the level of education necessary to know the answers to the test. These voters are the ones that he is targeting because, presumably, he believes that they would be less inclined to vote Republican.
This is the same philosophy advocated by Wyrick in the Christian Coalition video above. The more qualifications that need to be met in order to vote, the greater impact their far right's 30% have on the election as a whole because it eliminates a chunk of the voting populous.
Not only does this have the Jim Crow stench, but it might disenfranchise more Republican/conservative voters than the minorities the proposal targets. Here's my reasoning...
Back in 2004, BillO refered to The Daily Show viewers as "stoned slackers." A subsequent poll queried awareness of current events and the person's viewing habits. The poll revealed that Fox viewers scored consistently poorer than TDS viewers.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6117542
So this Goldberg proposal might disenfranchise the very people and political party he (probably) intended to help. I wonder how Republicans would feel if their vote was multiplied by their knowledge. (What is 3/5 of a conservative vote worth?)
Well, Jonah, it's unconstitutional, but other than that, it's a perfectly terrible idea.
That's what you get with homeschoolin'
This goober never heard of the Voting Rights Act of 1965?
Goldberg eats crow?
Is that kosher?
That would be a stupid survival strategy. How will you turn your eyes away when you're in a fight and about to receive a blow to the head? Why invest nutritional energy in creating extra eyeballs when muscles in your neck can rotate your head anyway? Bilateral symmetry evolved in animals before the appearance of eyes. Quadrilateral symmetry would be too hard to blend in at this point without screwing up all kinds of stuff that arrived since then like arms and legs. But, I'm probably talking to another creationist who thinks evolution means cats giving birth to dogs.
This is why I cancelled my subscription to The Kansas City Star. I will not promote any MSM paper that gives credence to idiots and hate mongers like Goldberg and Malkin. I encourage everyone to do the same and send an economic message to those that are in control that they can go to hell. People need to start taking a stand and quit monetarily promoting fear. loathing and ignorance and anyone who stands for it or allows it to occur.
Maybe we should have a foreign policy test for potential future presidents....like, who is the president of Pakistan? Maybe if we would have had that quiz, the idiot bush would not be president right now.
scruzman@133
Vysotsky@134
"OK. If we evolved by adapting to the environment, then why don’t we, and all creatures, have eyes in the back of our heads?
Because adaptation is a process of natural selection. Heritable traits that aid in survival in a given environment are passed on to successive generations. Our ancestors had stereoscopic vision, not 360 degrees of vision. That’s the Darwinian explanation. Period.
The point is, if we are adapting to the evironment, the composition should include eyes in the back of our heads since that's where the 'environment' hits us when we're not looking. That the physiology did not adapt to the environment in spite of we being hit in the back of head for eons, suggests a deficiency in the evolutionary thinking. The "Our ancestors having bi-polar vision so we do" explanation is not explanation at all. How about the pre-ancestors, and before that? Who decided that we should, in spite of being hit so often in the back of the head, only have bipolar vision? Just chance that almost every creature got the same primordial goo, was it?
"Also what new creatures are crawling our of the water, onto the shores these days?
New creatures? None that I know of. There are these things called amphibians, though. They’ve been around for a while. And according to evolutionary theory, the idea would be that they share common ancestors with fish. Again, this is a really fundamental misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.""
Thanks. Name one creature that's currently evolving into another. if evolution is ongoing, there should be at least one under study. Actually, if Darwin is correct, all species should be evolving before our very eyes: an extra fin, an extra eye...why not? This would be true adaptation to the environment and a validation of Darwin.
Relating to the topic, Goldberg, there won't be a test for the very reasons quoted in this thread. The education system bears responsibility for the ignorant kids that come out of schools these days. An informed voter is better than someone who votes in ignorance of the issues.
And I never believed the fish-to-man conversion, even though it was taught in our Iowa schools, over and over and over...
And why did all plants and animals just appear suddenly during the Cambrian period? There are no pre-Cambrian fossils to be found?
Should have been a part of the last post.
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