You know the (D) and the (R) are pretty close together on the keyboard too.

Now that I got the "Frist" out of the way, Dems don't want it either. They're all crooks.

We need an armed rev...... never mind. Bill's always watching us. Be verwy verwy quiet. We're huntin' wabbits.

Not buying it.

How many hundreds of years did we do just fine with pencil and ballot and real people counting real ballots?

We're sunk. You liked 2000 and 2004, you'll love 2008.

Oh crap. Start checking bank accounts. Who got bought?

i call fiensines bullshit!

And should the GOP regain control of congress in 2008, senator Feinstein? What then?

I'm a native San Franciscan. Feinstein is a republican. Period.

OT-Colapsed Bridge.

My cousin just called from Minneapolis. He said he was outside with friends watching a UFO when the bridge collapsed.

I don't know folks. I'm just hoping he was exausted, (he works two jobs).

Just Me @ 6:

Not buying it.

How many hundreds of years did we do just fine with pencil and ballot and real people counting real ballots?

Precisely. We need to be forceful in pushing for paper ballots and ONLY paper ballots.

I would share Feinstein's concern about instituting new machines and procedures in time for the election. BUT WE DON'T NEED THEM.

WE CAN REVERT TO PAPER BALLOTS WITHOUT CAUSING CHAOS.

My problem with electronic voting is, a paper receipt is no guarantee that your vote won't be changed the second the receipt is spit out.

BennyP @ 5:

This issue should have been addressed 7 years ago!
IF dems let this one slip thru again- I will vote Green across the board.

I'm not....I'll just vote republican then go hang myself in the garage.

I'm sick and tired of the Democrats. They are what they always were, lily livered weasels. I've lost all of my misplaced faith in their ability to bring back the democracy that was America.

They aren't any better than the republicans. They are just whiners.

No impeachment, backing down on paper trails and OH MY GOD!!!! giving into Bush on FISA!!!!

Screw them all. I quit.

Two stolen elections. Daily Constitutional crisis stemming from boy king power grab. Failed wars, failed nations, US treasury empty, bridges collapsing, levees failing, cities flooded, exploding or on fire. And the Dems are back pedaling.

My government has failed me. They have sold me out, yet again.

It's shit like this that makes you believe they are all in cahoots to screw this country every which way they can. As for Dianne Feinstein, I vote against her every chance I get.

Ahh the good ol' do nothing democrats. I hope they lose in '08. Don't get me wrong I'm no republican but the democrats are just plain worthless.

"bipartisan consensus"????

That is the LAST thing I want to see. Dear Democrats, learn how to be effective winners.

BennyP @ 5:

This issue should have been addressed 7 years ago!
IF dems let this one slip thru again- I will vote Green across the board.

You beat me to it.

7 YEARS ..... 7 YEARS and it still isn't fixed?

These leaders that we have aren't leaders, they're MISleaders.

I hear ya! Enabler are worse than the crooks. At Least the crooks are honest about their transparent actions.

Why bother voting? the votes are paid for!

Time to do more calling of your senator.

mudshark @ 29:

Take the time and e-mail your Senators.....I did...both Boxer and Feinstein.....I can't believe this is actually happening..........well I guess they don't want to keep their jobs much longer......

Hmm....if they allow the votes to be stolen at national level, what makes you think she wont steal the votes as well?

There is no concievable way for the repug's to win the next election........but they can steal it...................................again..............shit.

They also backed down on fuel efficiency.

paranoia @ 36:

mudshark @ 29:

Take the time and e-mail your Senators.....I did...both Boxer and Feinstein.....I can't believe this is actually happening..........well I guess they don't want to keep their jobs much longer......

Hmm....if they allow the votes to be stolen at national level, what makes you think she wont steal the votes as well?

She Better.....anything would be better than 4 more years of repug rule.

It is not about Democrats vs Republicans.

It is about the HAVEs" and HAVE NOTs

They HAVE a job in the government and they are not about to do anything that might jeopordize it. And the HAVEs include the Democrats.

Pathetic! I'm over a lot off those in "power" right now in Washington.

Time for Feinstein to go bye bye....next election your outta here honey.

The Dems are the same as Repubes. Up here in MN, I sent a letter to Amy Klobuchar asking why she voted to fund the war last time araound. She said she "Couln't in good consience vote to defund the soldiers". Fuck her. I don't know who I will vote for next time, but it will definately be a 3rd party.

> Rove has a plan to steal the 2008 elections–the Dems will LET them do it.

You assume we'll be having an election in 2008.

Manual Temporary Solutions

The Democratic leaders don't seem to understand the eminent nature of our voting problem. The Republican need only one election, this one, to ensure long lasting control over our voting system. The Republicans have their backs against the wall. They must either fix the next election or be voted out of must of their power positions within all three branches of Government.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein's attempt to address our voting problems will fall short unless she provides some interim provisions to head off what may happen in November of 2008. She needs to address an already out of control problem. Or maybe she can pass a bill forbidding cheating at the next election. This is a complex issue, and if Feinstein cannot understand what it takes to put a stop to what could be our third fixed election, she needs to move aside and let someone who does understand do so.

Sometimes our leaders need help from their supporters. We have to tell them what our concerns are, and make sure we don't send a message read our minds or be voted out in the next election. Everyone must do their part. Is intelligence the result of many minds or the result of one? There is a collective power the Democrats can fall back on and it starts with activism. We need to get involved and not let the worse happen.

Joseph

Citizen: HELP Our elections are being hacked!

Senator: OK Well. . . Lets wait for two more elections and then we will see who is left to address it then.

Citizen: Your Fired!

sometimes I think that the internet keeps people from going out on the streets to protest....we get to do it here.....which(as it looks)may not be enough.

This and the realocation of the electoral votes..(In Calif)is starting to paint a very bleak picture for the election..........bastards.

Hearing shit like this drives me up the wall in a way that words can't describe, but I still believe the best plan is to gradually overtake the (D) party from the ground up.

Seriously -- look at how well it worked out for the cuckoobananas people that took over the (R)s... yeah, it's a clusterf**k, but they *got* what they wanted, politically... they made savvy moves and got their way. Fact is, they're a huge, HUGE 30-million-voters-strong contingent [think about the sheer size of that... ~60 million votes went to Bush in '04] and they didn't get where they are now by trying to go with a 3rd party: If any group could've done that, it's them. They didn't do that.

Unless someone can figure out a way change the system; unfortunately it's totally set up for duopoly and the players aren't going change it from within.

...

/wasted my vote on Ralph Nader in '00

Casey O Trimble @ 21:

OT - but can someone tell my why C&L has an add for Bill-O's book on it's website? It was via google-adds.

The Dems are beyond spineless, and even Crooks and Liars are sellouts for the almighty dollar. Next thing you know, they'll be advertising TV spots for Glenn Beck. Whoops, my mistake. C&L already did that a few months back.

We're all fucked people. It's only a matter of time.....

Two-thirds of Ohio counties have destroyed or lost their 2004 presidential ballots and related election records, according to letters from county election officials to the Ohio Secretary of State, Jennifer Brunner.

The lost records violate Ohio law, which states federal election records must be kept for 22 months after Election Day, and a U.S. District Court order issued last September that the 2004 ballots be preserved while the court hears a civil rights lawsuit alleging voter suppression of African-American voters in Columbus.

The destruction of the election records also frustrates efforts by the media and historians to determine the accuracy of Ohio's 2004 vote count, because in county after county the key evidence needed to understand vote count anomalies apparently no longer exists.

"The extent of the destruction of records is consistent with the covering up of the fraud that we believe occurred in the presidential election," said Cliff Arnebeck, a Columbus attorney representing the King Lincoln Bronzeville Neighborhood Association, which filed voter suppression suit. "We're in the process of addressing where to go from here with the Ohio Attorney General's office."

http://www.alternet.org/story/58328/?page=1

"Knowing attorney Cliff Arnebeck and OH's new SoS Jennifer Brunner, however --- both of whom are on the case --- we suspect that someone will eventually be held accountable here. Not that such accountability will do anything to undo the rape of our nation's democracy which took place again in 2004 under our very noses. A rape, we will add, which could not have occurred without the tacit approval, willful "ignorance" and near-criminal negligence of the corporate American mainstream media. "

Vierotchka @ 60:

Salmineo @ 14:

OT-Colapsed Bridge.

My cousin just called from Minneapolis. He said he was outside with friends watching a UFO when the bridge collapsed.

I don't know folks. I'm just hoping he was exausted, (he works two jobs).

It seems that your cousin was telling the truth, unfortunately.

UFO or not, the aliens wouldn't bother with a bridge.. There are fatalities and many injured - not known if insured.
"" Workers have been repairing the 40-year-old bridge's surface as part of improvements along that stretch of the interstate, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported on its Web site." ==> there is no way a structurally sound 40-yr old bridge can be weakened w/ resurfacing job. The load carrying components (beams, bolts, etc) must have been compromized. Sabotage, or, idiot outsourced contractors 'saving' money against the contract specs ??

The WHOLE nation is FALLING APART, any which way. The junta and Parliament of WHORES push gazillons of OUR/tax /$$$$$ into Iraqui bridges being 'rebuilt' by Halliburton on a weekly/ monthly schedule, over and over. Nobody knows how long a Halliburton bridge of any size would last: it gets 'Iraq'd' as soon as it stands again.. Then, we also finance the Israeli WALL to keep Palestinians in check .. We don't have enough money to finish the US Southern border WALL to keep the 'Mexican terrorists' away - easy to see why this bridge collapsed: our priorities are based on Cherftoff's gut/booosh colon and it is official now.

I truly fear that the republicans will now win the White House in 2008. And, I truly fear the police state will become even more visable at that point. The Dems blew it!

If (and please DO!) you are going to contact a Democratic Senator or Congressman remember to remind them that they, may very well be the ones who could lose their job because of these machines.

Please make sure they realise that the Republicans cannot be trusted to run a fair race and will do ANYTHING to retain power .
These machines are just another way for the Republicans to cheat and lie to stay in power.

Therefore a real and proper paper trail is essential for a true Democracy.

once again....
Remind ALL Democrat Senators and Congressman that THEY are the ones who will be losing their jobs if these machines are allowed to stay in place with no verifiable paper trail.

John @ 75:

Tyree- Ron Paul is what's left.

Hillary=CFR=Globalist
Obama=CFR=Globalist
RudyMcRomney=CFR=Globalist
Fred Thompson=CFR=Globalist

CFR=Globalist=North American Union= dismantling of sovereignty

whats wong with kucinich?

This whole thing is pretty stupid.

IMHO, it's more than stealing elections. Money drives a lot of this stuff. Not Diebold money, but Voter News Service money. Somehow we've set the expectation that we need results the night of the election. We've also set the expectation that secrecy is something we need. Finally, we continue to ignore simple physical realities that govern our election process.

A solid democracy embodies 4 key concepts:

Freedom: This is simply the ability to vote or not. It's also important that said vote can be one of conscience, not coercion.

Anonymity: Put simply, one's vote must not be personally identifiable, or freedom suffers in that coercion then becomes a factor in how one might choose to vote.

Transparency: Democracy is a public process. This is one of the cornerstones to our "By the People, for the People" system of self-governance. Therefore, the voting public must be able to understand and observe all elements of the process. There is no reason for secrecy, given a watchful public eye on the process.

Oversight: Ability for all of us to mutually observe the election and maintain an enduring record of the votes cast, so that we establish mutual trust in the process and are able to resolve differences in a solid way.

When one casts their vote with ordinary physical means and materials, said vote record endures by virtue of our inability to undo changes to the materials in a way that is easily identified. A mark on a piece of paper, not only leaves a visible mark, but it changes the paper such that removal or changes to the mark, leave a record of the change. (Less than perfect paper results)

Secondly, ordinary physical methods feature a solid chain of trust from the voters intent to the record of the vote cast. A voter can make their decision and record it, then see the record reflect their intent. This is a nice and tight closed loop that is very important to the overall trustworthiness of the election process as a whole.

When one votes with electronic means, there is no chain of trust in like kind. A voter tells a device what their intent is, the device then makes the record. This is an interpretation of the vote that should be left to people, should some doubt need to be resolved. The process, being a public one, provides for this, given we do not have secrecy diminishing it otherwise.

One other very important difference between physical records and electronic ones is electronic vote records leave no evidence of change or tampering! Think about counting. If you are counting, and suddenly you decide to change your count, who's to know? The count simply is different than it was before. This artifact of electronic records makes verifying the election results problematic on a whole lot of levels. Without the votes being personally identifiable, we are left with audits, exit polls and other fairly coarse and general checks to build trust on.

Not good.

This is all summed up in a paper I wrote here: http://www.opengeek.org/2004/12/how-electronic-voting-impacts.html

Here is a thought exercise that is revealing, particularly after reading the paper:

Let's say we've got an election running. We can extend an analogy where we substitute people for machines, and some physical media that behaves a lot like electronic vote records do. People can process data and execute instructions like machines do. Eraser boards can be changed with little record of them having been changed, if we ignore some small aspects of this not important right now.

Bob decides to go and vote. He arrives at his polling place at the right polling time. Jane greets him, checks his registration and crosses him off the voter rolls. Others could challenge Bob at this time, and this is a problem to be ignored for this post. (Vote by Mail baby!)

Jane hands Bob a small erasable tablet, and instructs him on how to record his vote intent on it. Bob then goes to his booth and makes his decisions, marking the tablet with each one.

When he is done recording his vote, he takes his "ballot" to Frank, who is going to add his vote to the tally for his precinct.

Frank is to be trusted. Frank has been trained on every aspect of vote counting. Frank is in a secure room where nobody is allowed to enter. Frank keeps the record of the count according to the rules he has been given to operate under.

Bob greets Frank, who then asks for his tablet. Bob slips the tablet into a small slot, where Frank proceeds to read from the tablet in order to verify all of Bobs votes. As he reads each vote and hears Bob verify it, he adds that vote to his bigger tablet, kept in the secure room. When all the votes have been tallied, Bob gets his tablet back erases it, so nobody can see his votes and returns it to Jane.

When all the registered voters have voted, Frank then reads the contents of his tablet to other tabulators so they may build the final tally. The tablet Frank worked on is kept in that secure room where it takes two keys to gain access.

Everybody goes home to hear the election results!

Now here is the kicker: Would you trust that election?

Of course not! Everybody can see that Frank is free to record whatever he wants to on that secret and secure tablet. Frank can even change his mind and adjust the vote as he sees fit, since his tablet is the erasable kind.

This is why passing our votes through machines, where establishing a record of the vote is concerned, is so dangerous. Essentially, Frank or a machine is a proxy that is not trustworthy unless it can be watched.

We don't get to watch the machine make it's little electronic records. In fact, we don't get to see the records at all, largely because we cannot directly observe electronic records. Additionally, the machines follow whatever rules their creators gave to them. Those rules may or may not be in alignment with the intent of the law, or our general best interests either.

In the election I just described, we could perform exit polling to establish a coarse check of the official results. In the event of a conflict, we really are left with taking Franks word for how the count ended up. There are no records otherwise.

This too is very similar to where many States have left us by using the machines. None of this makes any solid sense, and it just bugs the crap out of me, frankly. It's not hard to see where the problems are. The fixes are just people and time and some materials!

We have lots of people. There are students and retired people along with homemakers all willing and able to help run the election in a solid way. Vote counts can be distributed with each pool of counters watching over one another to insure accuracy. This process scales with the number of people. Solid projected results would be availiable late that evening, with definitive results in a day, or few at the most, later.

There are two problems I see that just are not getting addressed.

One is the record of the vote. This must be on physical media that endures and said record must be both human and machine readable. Optical Scan ballots accomplish this with a minimum of hassle and equipment required for processing.

The secondary issue is that of the counting process. Why do we have companies making money off of counting our votes? We don't need very many machines, should we decide to count with them, like we do with Optical Scan. Paper ballots are easily printed, easily read by machines and can easily be distributed over time and space if we want.

This is the Oregon Vote by Mail plan. No aggressive polls, signature verification on votes cast, machine counting, and a double envelope that keeps the actual record of the vote secret until it is time to be counted. Verification happens before the actual ballot is queued for counting.

The paper record allows for audits, and full recounts by people if need be as well.

For most elections, a small body of counting machines is required, said counting happens in tandem with audits and with multiple people observing the counting. Challenged elections can go to the paper vote, etc...

The rest of the process is nicely distributed and leverages existing technology and people skills to complete.

The way it works now is that people cast votes on a variety of media and with a variety of methods, most electronic. Counting of the votes is done in secret, and that count is sold back to us via the news and the sale of the machines, increased secrecy, etc...

I just don't understand why we cannot go back to the elements of this process that matters, engage it with people and materials we all understand and just have an election. The biggest expense would be training and materials costs. Neither of these comes close to balancing out the huge costs of the machines and infrastructure required today. If we factor out the profit margins, we could even pay people to help make our democracy move forward and have those dollars actually do some good, locally where they are needed, instead of them going to some large corporation, who clearly does not have our best interests in mind.

Think about that last bit. If the voting companies are to make a profit, and voting must be free, what else can they do? Secrecy means specialized equipment, restricted access to both the people and the process, communications means, etc....

None of it is necessary, meaning all of those dollars are going to serve shareholders, not to insure we actually have a solid and respectable democratic process.

(sorry for length guys, this stuff bugs the crap outta me)

Feinstein is a liar ... chaos is prefered to stolen elections - except I guess for Feinstein.

She prefers orderly stolen elections to chaotic counted ballots ....

.... DOES THIS TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Canada for all levels of voting, federal, provincial or territorial, and municipal we do it the old fashion way. A pencil, a peice of paper and you put an X beside the name you want.I don't understand the reasoning that you guys have behind the voting machines......aside from the fact they've made some people rich.
Why do your politicians find it so hard to change things?

Totally!

It's all about dollars and manipulation, with the manipulation being largely about more dollars! There are always enough people and enough time to count their votes period.

This is why we have districts and such. Distribute the process, leverage the people and get the decision made in a solid way.

Should be a no-brainer, but this is the U.S. of "it's all about the bottom line" fucking A.

Once again the Dems stick it us....the voters who still support them
I can only say two words......Ralph Nader
I am warning you......we want a paper trail.......

Lenny Laks
Mendocino, CA

EconAtheist @ 61:

Hearing shit like this drives me up the wall in a way that words can't describe, but I still believe the best plan is to gradually overtake the (D) party from the ground up.

Seriously -- look at how well it worked out for the cuckoobananas people that took over the (R)s... yeah, it's a clusterf**k, but they *got* what they wanted, politically... they made savvy moves and got their way. Fact is, they're a huge, HUGE 30-million-voters-strong contingent [think about the sheer size of that... ~60 million votes went to Bush in '04] and they didn't get where they are now by trying to go with a 3rd party: If any group could've done that, it's them. They didn't do that.

Unless someone can figure out a way change the system; unfortunately it's totally set up for duopoly and the players aren't going change it from within.

Well said! .... The trouble I see in many of the comments I have read today is that people want it NOW. And this is a deep problem in US (and Western Nations in general) society and the way people think.
Short memories (Vietnam/Iraq), no thought for the future (pollution/Global Warming) Everyone wants a quick fix and they want it now.

This "Instant Gratification" society we live in is bad on so many levels.

This is what Pelosi was referring too in her interview over at KOS.
It takes time to make change. Build a record, build a case from the ground up.
Build a strong foundation, so that when you win it will be decisive and Strong and will last.

We have to stop acting like spoilt children every time we hear some bad news. We have to think and work hard for the future.

We work hard so that We and our children have the freedoms and lifestyle they deserve.

The Repugs didn't just get into power overnight. This all started decades ago.
George W Bush would be a complete nobody if it were not for his Dad, Grandad and the people behind them.
In fact I have very strong doubts he would not have got into Yale, and if he did, I doubt very much he would have passed. Remember he only passed with a "C" average (a minimum pass) when his Father was the head of the CIA!

Cheney, Rove et. al. needed a dimwit whom they could manipulate. A person with contacts and name recognition and who was loyal to THEIR cause.

We need to do the same. Build this thing from the ground up and stop whining and moaning whenever something doesn't go our way.

Since when is this a partisan issue? Everyone should read Brave New Ballot and be very scared!

Mike the Canuck @ 83:

In Canada for all levels of voting, federal, provincial or territorial, and municipal we do it the old fashion way. A pencil, a peice of paper and you put an X beside the name you want.I don't understand the reasoning that you guys have behind the voting machines......aside from the fact they've made some people rich.
Why do your politicians find it so hard to change things?

Same as in England. No one wants those stupid machines, because they rightfully don't trust them.

Shame on the Democrats.

And, the machines are not the only problem

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2007/08/06/070806taco_talk_hertzberg

Votescam .. ( in California)
by Hendrik Hertzberg August 6, 2007

Keywords
California;
2008 Election;
Primaries;
“Presidential Election Reform Act”;
Hiltachk, Thomas W.;
Ballot Initiatives;
Congressional Districts

At first glance, next year’s Presidential election looks like a blowout. But it might not be. Luckily for the incumbent party, neither George W. Bush nor Dick Cheney will be running; indeed, the election of 2008 will be the first since 1952 without a sitting
President or Vice-President on the ballot. At the moment, survey research reflects a generic public preference for a Democratic victory next year. Still, despite everything, there are nearly as many polls showing particular Republicans beating particular
Democrats as vice versa. So this election could be another close one. If it is, the winner may turn out to have been chosen not on November 4, 2008, but five months earlier, on June 3rd.

Two weeks ago, one of the most important Republican lawyers in Sacramento quietly filed a ballot initiative that would end the practice of granting all fifty-five of California’s electoral votes to the statewide winner. Instead, it would award two of
them to the statewide winner and the rest, one by one, to the winner in each congressional district. Nineteen of the fifty-three districts are represented by Republicans, but Bush carried twenty-two districts in 2004. The bottom line is that the initiative, if passed, would spot the Republican ticket something in the neighborhood of twenty electoral votes—votes that it wouldn’t get under the rules prevailing in every other sizable state in the Union.

The Tuesday after the first Monday in June is California’s traditional Primary Day. But it’s not the one that everybody will be paying attention to. Five months ago, the legislature hastily moved the Presidential part up to February 5th, joining a stampede of states hoping to claim a piece of the early-state action previously reserved for Iowa and New Hampshire. June 3rd will be an altogether sleepier, low-turnout affair. There may be a few scattered contests for legislative nominations, but the only statewide items on the ballot will be initiatives. More than two dozen have been filed so far, ranging from a proposal to start a state-run Internet poker site to pay for filling potholes to a redundant slew of anti-gay-marriage measures. Few will make it to the ballot.
Many are not even intended to; they’re a feint in some byzantine negotiation, or just a cheap attempt to get a little attention—for a two-hundred-dollar fee, anyone can file one. (Actually getting one on the ballot requires more than four hundred thousand
signatures, and the outfits that collect them usually charge a dollar or two per signature.)
Initiative No. 07-0032—the Presidential Election Reform Act—is different.It’s serious. Its backers have access to serious money. And it could pass.

Nominally, the sponsor of No. 07-0032 is Californians for Equal Representation. But that’s just a letterhead—there’s no such organization. Its address is the office suite of Bell, McAndrews & Hiltachk, the law firm for the California Republican Party, and its covering letter is signed by Thomas W. Hiltachk, the firm’s managing partner and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s personal lawyer for election matters..............“Equal Representation” sounds good, too ................

To most people, the electoral-college status quo feels intuitively wrong. So does
war. But that doesn’t make unilateral disarmament a no-brainer. .......

If California does what No. 07-0032 calls for while everybody else is still going with winner take all by state, the real-world result will be to give Party B (in this case the Republicans) an unearned, Ohio-size gift of electoral votes.

........California Initiative No. 07-0032 is an audacious power play packaged as a step forward for democratic fairness. It’s the lotusland equivalent of Tom DeLay’s 2003 midterm redistricting in Texas, except with a sweeter smell, a better disguise, and larger stakes.
And the only way Californians will reject it is if they have a chance to think about it first.""

read it all , send to your friends, so ALL start thinking NOW !!! Or, get screwed ...AGAIN.

How long have both these numb nuts been screwing us out of our vote? Why would the dems cave unless the repubs had something on them!

Dems backpedaling? Wow! NOW THATS a shocker.

Unbelievable! I am stunned. Call your senators. We can NOT let them get away with this. Mind blowing.

the repugs are not coercing the dems.
the dems and 'pugs are feeding from the same trough.
there may be some shock, but no surprise.

Feinstein is a WAR PROFITEER, as I remember.
look at the fortunes of those senators who vote for the repressive laws.

just like in watergate, FOLLOW THE MONEY

anon @ 80:

Feinstein is a liar ... chaos is prefered to stolen elections - except I guess for Feinstein.

She prefers orderly stolen elections to chaotic counted ballots ....

.... DOES THIS TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH! Her side has something to lose if the elections are fair.

FUCK Bipartisan anything, regarding elections. They have shown themselves to be utter contemptable over our right to vote, so FUCK 'EM!

The Dems are betting they're going to win the Presidency in 2008. won't they be shocked to find out at 3:00 a.m. that Florida (or Ohio) somehow has tipped into the Republican pocket....

again.

Maybe then they will wake up?

Maybe not.

God help us

But her hair looks nice.

I've tried twice over the last 2 years to contact (my Seattle rep) Jim McDermott to find out what he is doing about this, or if he knows of anyone addressing these issues. No response. I'll never vote for him again!

BaScOmBe @ 105:

the AIPAC speech. Kucinich and Gravel sound the best to me.

I also like (d?) Edwards. I must have missed the AIPAC speech - any references online you'd know of ?

We cannot leave our vote in this country to corporations controls.

Corporations privacy of those controls. Our Government should not become reliant on corporations in this manner.

They can make it happen if they wanted to. Remember, we are the only super power left. We can do anything. Invade Iraq, let Osama go. You name it we can do it..................

lenny lax brings the music to the people.

Dunbar @ 106:

The Dems are betting they're going to win the Presidency in 2008. won't they be shocked to find out at 3:00 a.m. that Florida (or Ohio) somehow has tipped into the Republican pocket....

again.

Maybe then they will wake up?

Maybe not.

God help us

They know perfectly well what their doing. We are so screwed. Push all of them to the wall, Feinstein especially that lying bitch. Go to their senate offices and take up residence, pressure ALL of them. They've had 7 years to do something about this, I've talked myself hoarse in 00 and 04.
THIS IS DELIBERATE
AND THEY ARE FULL OF SHIT
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS!!!!

Put the fear back on BOTH PARTIES, let's bring all that fear they lord it over us with and put it back in their lying faces. Let's make THEM feel it.

It REALLY is time to organize, people. This is it.

Get your priorities straight, people !

If there is ONE thing that matters to the exclusion of everything else politically,

this is it !!!

What happen to those days when ONLY one parent is required to work to raise a family? What happen to those days when it was the politicians that are working longer hours to make sure that AMERICA is safe?

Now it is the other way around......the politicians are the high and almighty the dukes and dutches of King George and the citizens was reduced to phesant and commoners, taxpayers, slaves and beggars.

What happen to AMERICA? What happened to the time when the tallest building was the Statue of Liberty? When the greatest number of people matters more than the greatest profits in Wall Streets?

The President of the Greatest Nation on Earth is now being seen among those Nation with the most deadliest leaders?

WE the people of this nation must rise above these tyrant like those filipinos that brought down Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos. We must not be not be passive like the GERMANS who was controlled by Hitler and his Nazis.

This is a possibility if we don't act NOW to stop this dangerous regime and promote PEACE. We may face another world war and this time WE WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE for allowing it to happen.

Pushing the date back to the 2010 elections will give us more time to reach a bipartisan consensus with voting reform advocates

Seriously, FUCK bipartisanship. Time for that shit was Sep. 12 2001. We see how well that turned out. Hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars later, those of us who want our country back aren't willing to listen to garbage like that. Sounds like most people here are of the belief the Dems are going to rig the machines like chimpy-dick did. Point is, they don't need to if they did their fucking jobs.

2008 should be a cake walk for dems. All the early numbers are showing a landslide victory in the house, senate and white house. Smart people would see that this isn't so much support for dems, as it is complete and utter contempt for repugs. But a win by people voting against something is the same as a win by people voting for something. It's still a win. So, unless the dems are planning on selling out all the people who put them there by backing chimpy-dick on the Iraq, they don't need rigged machines.

There are two possibilities: 1. dems are a bunch of morons to allow the repugs another chance to steal the electon 2. dems are in bed with the repugs and are letting them steal the election. Which one is worse?

americahatesearth @ 61:

Im bringing safety goggles, crowbars and claw hammers to the next election in case I run into a voting machine.

What will you bring in case you run into a repugnican?
I think we need weapons for that situation too. ;)

"“Pushing the date back to the 2010 elections will give us more time to" allow the republicans to tamper with yet another election. She flips, she flops, she whirs, she spins. Go Feinstein. Just go!

Democrats are just a controlled opposition.

Being polite could be a bit of a problem for me when I consider that they are saying that the integrity of the next Presidential election isn't all that important to them!!

Watch this video called "Hacking Democracy" and then call your Congressional Senators and Representatives. I had no idea our voting integrity in this country was at so much risk. Very devastating.

tyree @ 74:

John @ 75:

Tyree- Ron Paul is what's left.

Hillary=CFR=Globalist
Obama=CFR=Globalist
RudyMcRomney=CFR=Globalist
Fred Thompson=CFR=Globalist

CFR=Globalist=North American Union= dismantling of sovereignty

whats wong with kucinich?

Kucinich seems great on the surface but he is also a globalist. He is a Free Mason, mind you he is a better choice than everyone except Gravel or Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo5CZvD3-QM

People should watch this video that was posted earlier by someone else on this thread. Its valuable to see what is really happening. I am from Canada and I like you guys but I want to stay Canada and I am sure you would like to stay North America. You are about to lose you're constitution and given a new one where you're rights can be removed by the state. We are screwed here in Canada as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy4P2KZI-eM

You know, could cause "chaos", as opposed to the 8 years of peace and tranquility the stolen presidency in 2000 and 2004 has brought.

Can you believe these people? What is "urgent" to these people?

And this surprises anybody because...................

When the Dems won big in 2006 I was expecting they would fix the three most urgent & important issues:
1) Impeachment
2) End the War
3) Election fraud

Well, as the old saying goes: 3 strikes & yer out!!!

I'm done, these Dems are spineless, cowardly, stupid, complicit assholes!

What in the world is their problem? Maybe it's time to do another campaign to put pressure on them. Sometimes I seriously think republicans have dirt on them or something. They've been victims of this "voting machine" nonsense as well. If they want to have a chance at all to win in 2008 than they need to ban them and now. I would love to have the governor of North Carolina come to testify about the machine's. He not too long ago banned the machine's from NC because of their unrealibility and I would just love to hear him say why even just for the record.