Open Thread
By Nicole Belle Friday Aug 03, 2007 10:38pmPoliticsTV has some glimpses of YearlyKos. Check your local C-Span listings for more coverage.
I like that my buddy Cliff is teaching his son the importance of the netroots at such a young age. :)
And Cenk Uygur of Air America on unbecoming a Republican
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Cenk is the FRIST ex-Repug I've ever taken a liking to.
I admire Cenk, but I wonder why it's important for people to become Democrats.
I don't need to see anymore Democrats. I want to see Republicans who are willing to stand up and take the party back from the Neocons.
Does it have to be Democrat=Good/Republican=Bad?
Ron Paul just lost my vote. He did not even bother to show up to vote on the Illegal Wire Tap bill.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
One absentee President this decade is enough.
He could of sway votes by scream to high heavens on the House Floor to vote down this bill.
He says he fights for the Constitution. Great story. Most important vote that destroys the Constitution and he is a no show.
Smack is on the rise in Afghanistan.
Bush promises to not do anything again-this time for the bridge. Remember; when it's made in China, it funds religious oppression.
Tequila @ 4:
People in New Orleans are living in contaminated trailors. What Katrina was 2 years ago?
so that they could take a vacation, the congress just sold the american people down the river
you may want to delete this post, but i believe it is time for armed revolution
uncle joe mccarthy @ 6:
Probably a good idea none of post our true thoughts anymore. With the July 17th Presidential Order we all could get our assets frozen and taken away from us.
This will be my last post - anywhere. Just a lurker.
I really hope I will have the wisdom and courage to change MY mind if and when the time comes.
Just watched the film Z (Costa-Gravas, 1969) for the first time in about a decade.
Basically the story of Patrick Fitzgerald and the Cheney administration, with a bit of violence mixed in with the dirty tricks. Even the media sounds familiar -- including the lone underground journaliste (he's totally a blogger). Brilliant.
Military regime, here we come!
Forty-one House Democrats voted for the FISA amendments. Forty-one spineless weasels who care as much about the Constitution as Preznit Drunky McStagger does.
Here are the 41 members of the House Democrats For Undermining the Constitution and Kowtowing Eternally to Drunky (D-FUCKED) caucus, with webpage links.
I used to be Republican but switched parties in 2000 to help a Democratic friend run for County Council. I always tended to vote Democratic anyway and didn't like Bush and Cheney from the start, primarily for their lack of support for the environment and alternative energy, so it was the right time to change.
But I'm thinking of changing to Independent now. The Dems are simply spineless. They aren't standing up to Bush and fighting back on the way he has run roughshod over the Constitution.
So I'm not really married to any political party. I tend to vote for who I like rather then who their party affiliation is. When I was Republican I voted for Clinton in the general election although I couldn't vote for him in the primaries.
Some of these Republicans are so dead set in their ways they would vote Republican no matter what. It's not who is the best person for the job. As long as the job is held by a Republican that is all they care about. These are the ones that are still clinging support for Bush. They are wearing blinders and are so insular.
Mike @ 2:
A few weeks back, on the Stephnopoulos/Paul thread at C&L, There were a lot of new visitors here supportin' Paul.
Like I was sayin' then, don't trust Ron Paul. He's just an old school, economic Libertarian. So of course he didn't vote on a Fourth Amendment issue. This piece of legislation wasn't gonna repeal all taxes.
Copied from below, here are the Dems who are ACTUALLY responsible for the so-called Dem cave-in (nothing of the sort, of course):
TWENTY-NINE of 41 Yea votes were Blue Dogs:
Barrow, Bean, Boren, Boswell, Boyd (FL), Carney, Chandler, Cooper, Costa, Cramer, Davis (Lincoln), Donnelly, Ellsworth, Gordon, Herseth Sandlin, Hill, Lampson, Marshall, Matheson, McIntyre, Melancon, Peterson (MN), Pomeroy, Ross, Salazar, Shuler, Space, Taylor, Wilson (OH)
[There are 44 Blue Dogs, so that means that Pelosi and Hoyer have held a pretty big part of the Blue Dogs to the full caucus on this vote.]
The remaining shame goes to these 12:
Altmire, Cuellar, Davis (AL), Edwards, Etheridge, Higgins, Lipinski, Mitchell, Rodriguez, Snyder, Tanner, Walz (MN)
None of the leadership, none of the progressives, none of our part of the caucus voted for this crap.
As noted above, HERO RON PAUL DID NOT VOTE. What a show of courage! (maybe he wasn't in town)
Also not voting (Dems): Becerra, Clarke, Clay, Delahunt, Hinojosa, Kilpatrick, Klein (FL), Lantos, Skelton. None of those are Blue Dogs.
Harley @ 5:
I guess a bridge is easier to fix than a city...
(or is it a Republican Governor can get quicker and more support than a Democratic governor?)
Call me a skeptic, and it really shouldn't be a dem or Republican issue...but it just makes me wonder...
Paul in LA-
What issues compel these Blue Dogs to remain Democrats?
Harley @ 7:
What rank cowardice.
What, did your middle finger break?
Andy K @ 15:
The main point is that they do not, have not, generally will not, vote the caucus. They are conservatives who generally agree with Bushco foreign & domestic policy, though if you throw them enough peanut insurance and other ag perks (as with the supplemental), they will vote with us.
An example is Heath Shuler, who narrowly defeated an even more conservative R last year (and who voted yea on this).
These are (R) running on slightly liberal platforms in (R) districts.
LibertyLover @ 14:
I'll blamethe GOP, along with the greedy SOB's who've kept that party in, at least, influence if not outright power since 1980. The GOP began this race to the bottom, the Dems merely followed to keep voters.
And it's not just Pawlenty who Stupor Mundi is attemptin' to aid- there's also Norm Coleman to consider.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/nj
ATTENTION ALL OF NEW JERSEY OR ANYONE FROM PA, DE OR NY, WISHING TO JOIN IN THE PLANNING STATE WIDE IMPEACH STRATEGY MEETING : SUNDAY- 1 PM- AUGUST 5th
(Sorry for the short notice)
Spread the Word Widely !!!!!!
AT the Suzanne Patterson Center in Princeton for 1 PM Sunday (just Google it here
for directions:)
Suzanne Patterson Center
www.princetonboro.org
45 Stockton St
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(609) 924-7108
I didn't know that about Cenk. He's always kind of struck me as the kind of Republican kids I used to argue with when I was young, and was pleased that he was not like that at all. Maybe some of those kids figured it out too. I hope so.
Right after the Angora / Tahoe fire, heard a few comments in news about problem was environmentalists not allowing property owners to clear their land.
US Forestry assessment indicates that houses fueled the fire. One house that burnt down was on a ridge line! Trees next to houses didn't burn first. It was the other way around.
Paul in LA @ 16:
I'm with Paul on this one. Don't cave to GOP threats, real or perceived. They just wantchya silent- whether ya do it voluntarily or yer dragged off, the effect is the same.
I would also take pains to point out that we haven't had legal elections in eight years.
Last night, SecState Bowen (yea!) pulled her battleship athwart the Diebold flagship (the N.S.S. Votefraud) and blew its plating off. Last sighting, it was listing and on fire, with its crewmen in the shark-infested water.
Also seriously damaged in the decert/recert with massive restrictions was the fleet of ES&S (N.S.S. Inkavote not cert, all hands lost)(as of now, Los Angeles, the nation's second largest city, will be voting on paper ballots).
The pirate Registrars of Voters have threatened to ignore these losses and continue their predation on the population of the island of coastal California, but a MASSIVE LETTER-WRITING CAMPAIGN to the aircraft carrier A.G. Jerry Brown may bring that awesome craft into service in the fight against such anti-democratic local corruption, surely the AG's biggest responsibility in these times.
Join the battle, join the loyal navy, help restore legal voting in California!
How about this for a reason, if you're an American Soldier in Iraq you can get 110 years for rape and murder (not saying that is unjust) BUT if you are a
MercenaryContractor in Iraq you can rape and murder as much as you like and there is no law governing you...is it just me? or is something smell shitty in that fact?uncle joe mccarthy @ 6:
Not all of them sold us down the river. But enough of them did. Screw these traitors...I'm beginning to rethink my views about the pragmatism of voting for the Dems in 2008. It's beginning to look like enough of them are so hopelessly lazy or corrupt that they are no different from the Repugs afterall. I apologize for coming to this conclusion so late, and for fighting those of you who have been saying this all along. But what can we do? A third party candidate doesn't have a chance...
I'm feeling hopeless tonight, after reading this. Why can't these bastards stand up for us? Why are they abandoning our Constitution?
I can't believe the Dem's caved again and again and again and...Oh it makes me sick, my rep here is Waxman and he usually stands against these criminals in-spite of the people around him who cave all the time so I had to send him the following message and I just wanted to share it with you all (if anybody cares :( lol)
Are we really doomed? I can't believe our party can't stand up to Bush and his gang of criminals...I haven't seen yet how you voted on the Spy bill the passed, I have faith in you Mr Waxman, but I just had to express my displeasure with our party...I can't believe it's so hard to stand up to Bush and his nonsense. Thanks for reading this (whoever got stuck with that job)
anonymous @ 25:
These are the usual suspects, anon. There is NOTHING in those votes to surprise anyone. NONE of our leadership voted yea; none of our progressive caucus voted yea.
This is a CAUCUS GOVERNMENT. The caucus in the Senate needs SIXTY votes (veto-proof) -- we don't have reliable Dems across the board in the Senate (obviously), and we only get to vote on 1/3 every two years -- in some states, there is no Senator running in 2008. It takes time to reform the Senate.
If you haven't, I strongly recommend you read the first 100 pages of "Master of the Senate," by Caro. it is amazing, and will deeply impress you with how WELL we are doing to have just these defections (instead of a completely blocked Senate, like we had for much of the 20th century).
In the House, we need to build the caucus as much as possible. If you vote for independents WHO CAN GET ELECTED, fine with me -- they will caucus with Dems by necessity ANYHOW.
Speaker Pelosi is an EXCELLENT politician. Let's give her a larger caucus in 2008, so that the 11th Congress can reverse much of what has gone down in these last horrible years.
Mike @ 2:
I agree with you heartily.
Right now in the short term, I believe the majority of the Republican party is firmly in the camp of evil. And yes I do mean that completely - Evil, doing harm to others for no other purpose than selfishness and spite.
I don't believe that it HAS to be that way though. Lincoln was a Republican as they are so fond of saying.
I will most certainly probably always be a Democrat or whatever the more liberal party is - but I have always said that we *NEED* strong parties on both fronts to make our democracy work.
The problem right now though, is that one party has had its ideology completely highjacked and gone from trying to serve the people better to, instead, trying to best serve itself and its ideology, regardless of the costs.
Sorry, missed a 1, 111th Congress.
Paul in LA @ 27:
Very true Paul, very very true.
Cenk still sees a difference.How naive.Its the Republicrat party, we see Cenk.
The only real candidate for the upcoming 08 presidential election is Dr.Ron Paul from TX.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 26:
The Dems did NOT cave. And you have a lot to be proud of in Waxman, who voted nay of course.
Please read 13 above. The Blue Dog Coalition are marginal Dems, they are proud to be an echo of the execrable 'Yellow Dogs' like LBJ (and some of the most racist Congressmen in history). But they come from conservative districts, and many are in power because the R in that district was grossly corrupt. While they may vote with us on occasion, WE CANNOT COUNT ON THEM.
If you tar the good Dems with the Blue Dogs, or with the Bushco-voting Dem Senators like Feinstein, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. These are problems that Reid and Hoyer INHERITED. They are NOT the fault of our leadership, and the situation should not reflect on our good Dems.
Andy K @ 18:
Stupor Mundi... :lol: I think Al Franken can take the man... at least he'll have fun trying.
Paul in LA @ 27:
Thank you. I will find the Caro book from B&N tomorrow.
I agree that the Senate votes were not a surprise. I was chagrined, however, to see that Claire McClaskill and Jim Webb, in the House, voted for the bill. THAT, I did not expect.
JK @ 31:
Right. Ron Paul.
What's the over/under on infrastucture collapse if that right wing Libertarian's elected?
Andy K @ 35:
Just to clarify my position here: however high the number is, I'll take the over. And I'l parlay that bet with the disappearance of the middle class. If ya dig up enough dumbasses to elect the guy.
anonymous @ 34:
Webb's no savior fer the Party hisself. He's tough on the way soldiers and vets are treated, but he's quite conservative, ya know, as far as the Democratic litmus test goes.
Re post 27:
The point about caucuses is well taken. it gives a little hope. But this i just can't get behind:
"Speaker Pelosi is an EXCELLENT politician. Let’s give her a larger caucus in 2008, so that the 11th Congress can reverse much of what has gone down in these last horrible years."
If she's so great how come she caved in and gave Bush a no-restrictions money package to wage war. The proper thinjg to do was call thwe bluff. Cut off funding for the war completely. It would have forced a phased withdrawal. Any way you shake it, she came down on the wrong, immoral side of the issue.
And I will say this only once, in all caps so you get the point:
SHE MUST IMPEACH, OTHERWISE I WILL EVEN VOTE GOP AGAINST HER. I'M ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS ABOUT THAT.
I can't understand why should she be so invested in covering Bush's ass??
It makes me so dang mad I can't see straight. And I know I'm not the only one by a long, long shot.
No, Nancy Pelosi isn't helping us. She's one of "them". She simply is not like us. I can't relate to her at all, sorry.
I am also an ex Republican right wing nutcase. Fortunately i changed in my teens and did no serious damage. But i have to tell you, i was crazy and believed in a lot of things i finally found out were just not true. And that is what bothers me about the right, they have to delude themselves into believing things that are not true just to keep the faith. How deluded can one be?
Laszlo Panaflex @ 9:
Z is one hell of a great movie. If anybody can find it, please watch it. I saw it once back in the 1970's and never forgot it.
What's up with Dennis "Macho" Miller? Man, Denny, you used to be so good and funny. Now you've become an ankle hugging, bang, bang, shoot em up Bush supporter on Fox/Pravda News. Come on man, lay off the crack for god's sake. It's making you crazy dude.
Blue Dog Demos are only Repubs that couldn't get ahead in their old party. They are soft-core conservatives that have rebranded themselves.
Also, I'm not a great fan of the Young Turks. They are bit too shallowly abrassive with their passing-the-time talk between interviewing guests. And sometime I get the feeling that they truly don't have a clue progressively speaking. I mean Mike Malloy is harder and like a knife, but I can listen to him because he has a clue progressively. After watching the Cenk Uygur's video, it's becomes clear. Cenk still a baby progressive that had to grow up too fast. He sometimes loses his balance and strays off the mark. Cenk's still learning how to walk.
And finally, remember - the only good Republicans are the ones out of office.
anonymous @ 34:
Well, in their slight defense, consider that junior Senators have a dual problem. In Webb's case, he has to deal with the senior Senator of Virginia, Warner. And necessarily, any junior freshman has a primary purpose of getting reelected, which is related to the views of his constituents (who previously cheered Macaca Allen).
In the same way that (otherwise excellent) Senator Sherrod Brown voted for the Guantanamo habeus corpus stripping, Webb will have to live down this vote. In that sense, he will have to endeavor to cover his shame by working harder for indictment, for instance -- if the people of Virginia (respectfully) confront him on it, as was done by Brown.
Anyway you slice it, Senator Webb is a big improvement over the complicit racist bastard he replaced. It's a net gain.
yogi-one @ 38:
If you think a Congress can stop an active war, you have NO reference in history. But that aside, what happened with the supplemental is that we passed a bill with significant restrictions, Bush vetoed it, and so the leadership made lemonade with lemons, and raised the minimum wage and money for the Katrina victims -- NEITHER OF WHICH WERE GOING TO PASS THE SENATE OTHERWISE.
Those tradeoffs are not insubstantial. Speaker Pelosi wisely saw that taking half a loaf is better than standing on principle and losing. By reducing suffering to these critical groups of impoverished groups under the current economy, this was a major act of national defense.
I'd like to win all the fights. That's why I'm ECSTATIC about last night's CA SecState Bowen actions, decertifying and recertifying with major restrictions, electronic voting systems. This is a HUGE leap for our society and our ability to progress. It's a MAJOR blow to the RNC, and Bushco -- so it's not surprising to me that IMMEDIATELY this hokey FISA bill is cooked up, which supposes to transfer FISA court duties to AG Gonzales!
That's hilarious. Were Bushco operating legally, that would be intolerable. But it's clear the the Bush Shitehouse is breaking whatever laws it likes, so this supposed law is a joke. He doesn't follow the laws he doesn't want to. He should be prosecuted for that, under the law (by indictment).
Rather than celebrate Democrat Bowen's accomplishment, and recognizing the absurdity of this latest insult, people are acting (perhaps PAID acting) like it's the end of the world as we know it. Because Bush won't need a signing statement, so that's so much better for him? WHAT NONSENSE.
Another Excuse to Bash the Dems and Take Attention of the Vote Fraud Act of 2007 is the real name of this 'bill.' He can stuff it up his pretzelhole, and choke on it.
I just posted a great DVD version of my documentary on mininova and I need seeders to help out. Thanks
Redneck Paradise: Rose Colored Glasses Volume 1, The Beginning
Think you know what's happened and what's going on? You don't. Remain in ignorance or watch this short video. A powerful video that is jam-packed with shit "they" don't want you to know. From my "testing" of this video on my relatives and friends, it never fails to remove their "Rose Colored Glasses" - no matter how "hard core" they are. Please help seed this video. One more preface note...the pictures and videos mostly speak for themselves, so no matter what language you speak (French, German, Dutch, Arabic, Spanish, etc.), you should be able to understand what is happening. Runtime: 34min. DVD Format, but quality varies due to varying source quality. Go to link for more info.
Cenk and his family no longer Rebubbacans? I don't think so. Seeing Bush as deficient doesn't make you a Democrat. Apparently all other Repubs before Bush were just fine with Cenk.
Well, I am quickly becoming an undemocrat. I fell in love with them when I was young, because of their ideals, (yes even the ideals of Jimmy Carter, supposedly the "worst president" ever), I was madly in love with them when we had a balanced budget, and needed social programs and agencies run by people who were competent and professionals, and then I was betrayed. A man that I respected didn't know what the word "is" meant. He lied, when he should have be honest and forthright and told everyone it was none of their business, and certainly didn't effect the Presidency.
They allowed the greedy, manipulative, despicable step mother republicans to take over. They became cowards. They wouldn't stand up and fight, but kept promising "we're saving our powder". So I believed. I kept waiting. And waiting. And waiting. But the moment NEVER came that was "right" enough for them to act in our best interests. They caved again and again and again to the wicked step mother, George Bush, and the ugly step daughters, (the republicans in congress).
But then they won the election in 2006. They did what no one believed they could do. They won the majority of both houses. They promised accountability for the evil step mother who had lied us into war, who had ruined OUR agencies, who had politicized the Department of justice. They promised to "clean the swamp". I watched that night in absolute elation and joy, because they were going to save us.
Then my heart sank. Nancy Pelosi, the woman who was going to clean the swamp, TOOK IMPEACHMENT OFF THE TABLE!!!!! There was to be no accountability. It had been a lie. But then again I was promised that somehow, even with impeachment gone, they would hold the administration accountable and not give in to the evil step mothers demands. But they did. Again and again and again. Now they have given the evil wicked stepmother the keys to our rooms, allowed her to tap our phones, to take our money.
They want us to love them and to respect them and to vote for them, but they are worse than the evil wicked step sisters who gladly gave the evil wicked step mother everything he wanted. They promised not to and yet they did anyway. Who are these weak kneed, lily livered, yellow bellied democrats in our fairy tale anyway? They are the pathetic impotent father who married the evil wicked horrible step mother in the first place and now allow her to ruin our home and our lives.
And so, I am leaving them. Better the horrible evil wicked step mother and her horrible evil daughters than the lying, two faced, double crossing weak kneed impotent democrats that keep promising and promising justice, accountability and relief and give NONE. At least with the horrible republicans you know what you are getting.
So I am leaving both parties. I will see what others are out there to choose from. Maybe nothing, but I can't be lied to anymore and I can't be support blatant criminals. So there is nothing left for me.
The Impeach Pit
As soon as I can get my affairs in order I'm moving to either Canada, France, or the U.K. Better to live in those places than to continue getting screwed.
"I like that my buddy Cliff is teaching his son the importance of the netroots at such a young age."
Ya Nicole. I like when parents brainwash their children, especially for politics or religion. Sorry, but, Cliff, your son can't be a Dem or a ReTHUG till he's old enough to be completely brainwashed and can legally vote. Until then, you can call him anything you want, but it doesn't make it true. It makes you look idiotic.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/denson8.html
I suggest all read this. Seems C&Ls operated in America long before my time.
For those folks that are lazy-"Roosevelt deliberately provoked the attack and that he and his key military and administrative advisers clearly knew, well in advance, that the Japanese were going to attack both Pearl Harbor and the Philippines. Roosevelt wanted to get into the European War but he had been unsuccessful in provoking Germany; therefore, he considered the sacrifice of Pearl Harbor and the Philippines as the best way to get into the European War through the back door of Japan. The cover-up of this strategy started immediately after the attack and continues to this day. The author concludes that this information of the coming attack was intentionally withheld from the military commanders because it was known that the Japanese were depending upon the element of surprise and if warnings had been sent to the commanders of Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, their preparation for the attack would have caused the Japanese to cancel their plans.
The losses and damages at Pearl Harbor are described by Victor as follows:....READ IT--the deaths in 911 were nothing compared. Sad part is,this new book is getting little coverage :(
Thanks for the clips. I always wondered what vile haters looked like.
Surprisingly, a rather attractive bunch.
Strange.
Could it be that reason, integrity, and insight cause blotchy pasty complexions?
That's a hateful thought.
Vile.
JK @ 31:
Don't make me laugh. Ron Paul's a nut job, just like every other Libertarian I've seen. No sense of proportion or balance. Granted, he's not as dangerous as Bush, but that's not saying much.
just came in on the local news...Here in Monterey County,we are going back to paper ballots...
George @ 51:
The first premise that must be believed is that the US intelligence could completely decrypt and decode Japanese radio traffic. Problem with yer argument is that the US couldn't:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3926/is_200307/ai_n9291658/pg_1
Plenty of other arguments can be made to counter the foreknowledge argument, but I don't have time right now. Maybe later...
But the 8-pronged provocation? That's full of crap! So FDR cut off oil and scrap metal sales to a nation that was wagin' an aggressive war in China....So what? Some provocation!
Andy K @ 55:
Yer Rite Andy...Japan was on a war footing and proceeding all over the western Pacific...looking for raw materials.....So FDR says ok..no more.....which made the Japanese go further.....change of topic.......I'm listening to the repub debate on ch 7....these guys are tripping all over themselves with the anti war debate....very entertainng.
as for FDR knowing inadvance of PH....yeah...rrrrrrriiiiigggghhhttttttt!
I believe that one as much as one shooter killed JFK.
good speech by cenk, I heard kos is also an ex republican.
The Yearly Kos
Looked like mostly white, yuppie, 30 year olds with good dental plans hey? Brother at the end was funny.
Cenk Uygur of Air America
Republicrats, two wings of the same bird. The only reason Ron Paul is a republican is third party candidates...well, we don't want them to ruin the election, stealing votes away from the real candidates...NWO choice 1 and NWO choice 2.
If any clear headed, moderately well read human in this country can still see a difference in the two parties then they are on some good drugs, happy pills, or clinically you know what...
That's my nickle...
George @ 51-
So I was plannin' on debunkin' the points stated in yer link one by one, but after a little research I decided to take a different route.
George, do ya consider yerself duped easily? Or are ya an agent provocoteur? LewRockwell.com may, for all I know, be directly funded by the John Birch Society. The tone of the site leads me to believe this to be probable rather than possible. And the site couldn't possibly be deeper down Ron Paul's dick.
Okay, I'll giveya that Paul is anti-Iraq War, anti-Bushco. Super. He doesn't have his head completely up his ass. Just mostly.
As the recent bridge collapse in Minnesota has shown, there are more issues to be addressed than the war. On these other issues Paul comes down on the wrong side, as far as any informed progressives- ya know, the bloggers and most of the commenters at C&L- are concerned. Yer just tryin' to peel off the libs who don't have the time to do the readin', I suspect.
One last- the book referenced in yer link, The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America’s Traitors by Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel, is McCarthyism at its worst. The authors accuse Robert Oppenheimer, Harry Hopkins, Omar Bradley and Albert Einstein as traitors, the sole evidence bein' mentions of those men in the Venona Files and nothin' else, all the while toutin' the heroism of Tailgunner Joe McCarthy.
ej doyle @ 60:
Another one?
Fuck Ron Paul! If yer a progressive liberal ya can vote fer Dennis Kucinch. He's both anti-war and anti-corporatocracy. He's fer Universal Healthcare. He's not a No Government Libertarian, unlike Paul.
Sinfonian @ 10:
I wonder why it is that there is always such a glut of Democrats willing to go along with Republican desires, while there is always an almost non-existant number of Republicans who will ever vote in a defecting way. You never see just 30 or so Republicans shooting their own agenda in the foot that way. Will they EVER learn?
Those 41 Democrats need to be brought into a room and spanked by Pelosi & Co. until they Get It that it's hard enough getting anything done as a Party without these morons going in and giving bucketloads of support to the Republican agenda.
Andy K @ 62:
Another one?
>>Fuck Ron Paul!>>
Your level of communication is inspiring.
>>If yer a progressive liberal>>
I'm not.
>>ya can vote fer Dennis Kucinch.>>
What happened to the freedom of the ballot? Are you the vote-cop or something?
>>He's not a No Government Libertarian, unlike Paul>>
You are either a liar or a troll. You have no idea of Dr. Paul's voting record or his stance on issues...eliminating the personal income tax, disbanding the CIA, maintaining a non-interventionist policy, eliminating the Federal Reserve Bank, guarding the border to Mexico, voted no on the Patriot Act, the War, etc........Yeah the guy is a real shill for the neocons.
That's my nickle...
ej doyle @ 64:
Ya should read my comments above @61. I never said that Paul's a neocon. But just because he is not a neocon doesn't make him any more tolerable, in the whole, imo.
As fer my "Fuck Ron Paul!" statement....Well, if ya haven't noticed, C&L is a liberal site; Amato has campaigned fer a lot of candidates, and those have all been Democrats (though I think there's some support there for the independent Bernie Sanders). My hyperbolic statement serves a purpose, pal- to grab the attention of my liberal friends here who might not be aware that Ron Paul's political beliefs are pretty much equal to those of Ayn Rand.
Now I find this part of yer first post exceedingly rich: The only reason Ron Paul is a republican is third party candidates…well, we don’t want them to ruin the election, stealing votes away from the real candidates…NWO choice 1 and NWO choice 2.
Man, it's nice to see that the GOP has its very own version of Lyndon LaRouche! Face it: yer candidate's veeeeery fringy and the only way he can get attention is by subvertin' an existin' party by way of the half-truth.
And, btw, unless yer goin' fer style points or talkin' about a european woodpecker, it's spelled n-i-c-k-e-l.
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