Edwards Tries To Distinguish Himself From Clinton Over K Street

WorkingForChange:

I'm just back from the YearlyKos Convention in Chicago, and wanted to point folks to two YouTube clips of what were the best and most telling moments - by far - of the conference's presidential campaign interchanges. As you will see, after John Edwards pushed Hillary Clinton into a corner about her ties to Washington corporate lobbyists at the debate, he continued on the theme in his town-hall-style breakout session - a sign that, coupled with his history from 2004, shows that he is aiming to use the issue as a way to frame the race as him vs. Clinton. If I were Clinton's campaign trying to, for instance, paint American politics' top recipient of health care industry money and lobbyist cash as the candidate of "change," Edwards' line of attack is exactly what I would be most afraid of.

Edwards frames the race as a choice. "If you believe we're gonna get the change that we need in a system that's rigged, and that that change is going to come working with people who rigged the system, and that's what these Washington lobbyists are - then you have one choice," he says, in a clear reference to Clinton. "If on the other hand you believe we should reform not just the government we should [also] reform the Democratic Party, we should make it clear that we are not with those people, that we are not the party of Washington insiders" then, he says, he's your choice.



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101 comments

butttttt, can this guy really win? hillary has pushed herself to the center on so many issues.

I totally agree that THIS is THE ISSUE that Edwards and Obama need to run with. It is a huge issue in middle america and it isn't a right or left debate.

court this issue and you can get to that middle ground we need to bring the country back together.

wohooooo I'm first!!!! and 2nd!!!!

Congrats,donviti. You won and placed! :)

At this point I am so frustrated and disgusted with all this that I don't know if I trust any politician right now. They're all making noise, but if elected, will they remember what they said during that noise making. At least almost all the dem candidates appear to be sane. That's more than I can say for over half the repub candidates. Two of them seem fake as hell and the others just sound like they have lost their mind. I'm not sure what to think of Ron Paul yet, so far, not much.

Wasn't he and Hillary recently caught on video conspiring to exclude the other, lesser known Democratic Presidential candidates from any future debates?

donviti @ 1:

butttttt, can this guy really win? hillary has pushed herself to the center on so many issues.

I totally agree that THIS is THE ISSUE that Edwards and Obama need to run with. It is a huge issue in middle america and it isn't a right or left debate.

court this issue and you can get to that middle ground we need to bring the country back together.

Using our current presidential election system, a candidate must gain control of the voting machines in order to secure an election. Hillary/Obama is the pre-ordained combo. The GOP is pre-ordained to lose the election. Ron Paul is the only electable GOP candidate.
Mike Ravel is cast as the raving old guy (who is telling the truth). Its all one big TV show we the 5% who pay attention to this stuff can talk about.

[Um, That's Gravel. Mike Gravel-Sitemonitor]

The hypocrisy of these devotees if Daily Kos is simply breathtaking to behold. They bask in the glow of being labeled the most liberal web site on the Internet yet at their yearly convention they voted Edwards and Obama as being their most favored among the candidates running for president while the most progressive candidate of them all, Dennis Kucinich, received almost no mention at all. These Kossacks have a long way to go before they can earn the title of belonging to the most progressive site among the grassroots on the Internet.

Edwards is absolutely correct that corporate lobby money needs to be taken out of the equation.

As for Hillary, it's telling that she says corporate money never influenced her, and yet what about the bankrupty act? Before she was a senator she was against it, yet after becoming a senator and obtaining money from the lobbyists for the act, she voted for it.

And of course she still wants that dirty money to keep rolling in.

Edwards has enough money of his own and is popular enough now! Kucinich would be my choice because he's been courageous and right in his decisions on the war before and after, impeaching Cheney, and his health care ideas have been the best overall, although I doubt he can win the nomination. If Edwards isn't playing some game and lying to those he speaks to he would make a VERY GOOD nomination over Hillary in my opinion, - no more Bushes or Clintons as President!!!

Edwards is a much better choice than the very compromised Hillary Clinton and the "audacity of " pure ambition Obama. At least Edwards is taking stands instead of constantly triangulating and hedging. Clinton and Obama have offered very little substance to go with their "vote for me b/c I'm me" campaigns.
I will vote to someone with a spine, not someone who offers the same content free drivel.
I challenge all Clinton and Obama supporters to show the rest of us any policies that they have suggested that are substantively different from the Republican-lite policies of Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton's policies were more conservative than Richard Nixon's.
The Obama / Hillary horse race is a race to the same policies that have made the US resemble a banana republic - there are the very rich then there is everyone else who must deal every day with job and income insecurity.
Edwards is not perfect but at least he is taking some clear stands on issues that could help the majority of Americans.

The economy is on a downward trend (check the dollar vs. other benchmark currencies). Once it's hit bottom, we don't have the industrial basis we'll need to bring it back up. By that time, the treasury will also have been looted.

Edwards is smart, because he's appealing to a growing demgraphic - the poor, working poor, and over-indebted (it's actually easier to say he's not working for the largely untaxed rich). Hillary seems to think that the ststus quo (national indebtedness) will continue, unabated. Ask the homebuilding industry how the continuing status quo worked out for them.

At the same time, Edwards can afford to position himself as the outsider - he as no office to loose, so he isn't beholden to the ststus quo.

As soon as the economy passes the pain threshold, Edwards will emerge as the front-runner, overall (Dem or Repub).

Bottom line: Edwards/Obama in '08.

Mark my words.

Edwards is right. Hillary is a great candidate, and her promise to have a presidency that resembles Bill Clinton's great 8 years is convincing, but I want the democrats to aim higher and bring point this country toward a direction like FDR had with his new deal policies.

Marcus Aurelius @ 10 - I was listening to NPR on friday, and they had this market analyst and he made a convincing argument that last week the economy entered a recession. Of course on the regular news seemed to overlook that wall street assessment...

Damn, Edwards makes me purr like a kitten! Look at his hair! Fantastic!

Go Steelers!

Marcus Aurelius @ 10:

The economy is on a downward trend (check the dollar vs. other benchmark currencies). Once it's hit bottom, we don't have the industrial basis we'll need to bring it back up. By that time, the treasury will also have been looted.

Edwards is smart, because he's appealing to a growing demgraphic - the poor, working poor, and over-indebted (it's actually easier to say he's not working for the largely untaxed rich). Hillary seems to think that the ststus quo (national indebtedness) will continue, unabated. Ask the homebuilding industry how the continuing status quo worked out for them.

At the same time, Edwards can afford to position himself as the outsider - he as no office to loose, so he isn't beholden to the ststus quo.

Good argument. I'd prefer Wes Clark as the Vice but I can live with Obama for sure. Any D is better than any R likely to win the nomination. (Paul being a civil libertarian is one of my favorites but the GOP is not sane enough to nominate him and make the race about choices.)
As soon as the economy passes the pain threshold, Edwards will emerge as the front-runner, overall (Dem or Repub).

Bottom line: Edwards/Obama in '08.

Mark my words.

Seele:

It's a recession in the same way that lung cancer starts out as an ache in the chest. We have dismantled our manufacturing and industrial bases (along with our technological edge - do some research), in the name of corporate (read: corporate insider) profits. The void created by our abandonment of the core business interests of the US, has been filled by emerging, formerly communist pseudo-capatilist economies. The US middle class (what we consider as our birthright) cannot exist in the Global economy. It's also the middle class that has the unprecedented level of personal debt. We're getting screwed right, left, and regular.

Right now, it's just an ache in the chest. This is going to get ugly.

On the upside, the religious right will have to confront the idea that that they have been raped and robbed by those they believed to be the annointed of god. Their reaction to the fact that god has abandoned them and their misplaced ideals? We have to stop abortion. Sheesh.

WTF is this bullshit about Edward's hair? What Romney dosn't spend $$$ on his hair and makeup? And why is there never any talk about Guliani's hair, now that he cut off his extreme comb-over?

Oh wait, democrats are judged by a stricter set of rules then republicans, my mistake.

edwards appealing to the poor- don't forget his elitist chatter with hllary recently, about how they ought to "make these things smaller..."

I wish I could get behind Edwards. I can't after that tape of him and Clinton came out. I used to support him, gave money. Now...I am completely undecided about who I am voting for. Because I am not a fan of the candidates we have.

They are desperately trying to appeal to the left, but they are just politicians and i don't think they really care.

I think that all the candidates are different pockets of the same suit. They could care less about you, they are simpley running to pad their ego and fill the pocket of their friends and family.

And BTW, Obama has been I half-assed Senator. He won't try to stop Bush & Co. from stomping on the constitution but he will make a dandy speach about it.

Gore/Edwards please?

AL!!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?!! =[

We need public financing of campaigns. Congress members have to raise 6 mill for a 165k a year job

I am writing in Dennis Kucinich no mater what!

[...] Originally posted here: Nicole Belle [...]

Edwards is running a smart campaign - and I'd like to like him. There have been a few moments however that have caused me to distrust him, the most notable being his comment (to the effect) that unlike Hillary and Obama he could win in the South; iow he's a white male. I don't care if he's correct about that; it's not the point. Too often I've settled for trying to get the best of the viable candidates elected. This time around I'm going for Kucinich.

John Edwards speaks to me. He will fight the corporate raiders who have destroyed our economy. He will not be beholden to special-interests or lobbyists. He is a man-of-the-people and will always work hard for the common man.

Go Steelers!

I find his argument convincing. With Edwards at the Helm, the contrast to a party of corrupt insiders is stark indeed. Stark enough that he might just win overwhelmingly, and have coat tails big enough for the 60 Senate seats we need. And with a reform mandate to boot.

We need to win big in 2008, now just 15 months away, and with a mandate for change. I don't just want a new set of people in Washington, I think we need the mandate for change. We need a "Teddy Rooseveltian" mandate for change, the same mandate that the Trust Busters had.

America once broke up the congealed power of the wealthy to protect it's democracy, it is one of the most exciting times in America's history. But Power is now even more in the hands of it's corporate insiders, and the stakes are higher, because they want not just control of the American Democracy but the world as well.

The war in Iraq, is a war to bring "Ohio style" democracy to the world.

I'm convinced that Edwards has the smarts, the heart and importantly the drive to change America: return it to principles not power, return it to democracy not Jim Crow/Diebold election theft, return to a government of the people not "K street". The radical part of Edwards drive, is that it is a drive home - Government of the people, for the people and by the people. I suspect that these would be the words, and the theme, of his Inaugural.

The only question now is who makes the best VP. I argue for one that does not "balance" for left right (ugh) but a similarly driven reformer, a partner to Edwards. And a secure feeling that no matter what, the change is happening, no matter what.

Here's one extra item I've been mulling. We were lied into the Iraq war. (This needs a new verb.) And it wasn't George. Well yes it was, but, the press did most of the lying, and produced all of the jingoism that drove America to war. In reality, if you re-run the tv avalanche of "war-drum" imagery and music and lies, it was our soldiers that were embedded in the main stream media's drive to Baghdad, not the other way around.

John's understanding of this may be his most important understanding. His leadership on this, his refusal to attend a Fox debate for example, make him one of the most progressive candidates in America.

Geez, are you people easily conned. I'm beginning to think you're drinking the same Kool-Aid that the Bush lovers ingest.

Seriously, you folks are proof-positive that you really CAN fool some of the people all of the time. John Edwards cares about you? Get a grip on reality.

[...] Contact the Webmaster Link to Article youtube Edwards Tries To Distinguish Himself From Clinton Over K Street » Posted at [...]

Edwards is really doing a great job in his campaign. I don't know the circumstances surrounding his "collusion" with Hillary regarding the debates, but I'd be surprised if he were truly worried about Gravel and Dodd hurting his candidacy at all. I like both Gravel and Dodd (for a variety of reasons), but I don't think many consider them to be serious presidential candidates. Their job is to make sure the candidates move as far to the left as we can get them, and I think they're doing it well. So far, in spite of his being another rich white boy, I really like Edwards a lot.

Edward is on point.

Lobbying should be illegal.

Edwards is dead wrong. Lobbyists are an essential part of the lawmaking process. A competent lawmaker must interact with lobbyists. Big companies are required to make decisions that affect large numbers every day, and do so within a legal framework. Their voices need to be heard by lawmakers who are in a position to alter and improve that framework.

Lawmakers must also, however, consider the public interest. The problem today is that the views of large corporations are overrepresented in the public discourse. What we need is media law reform, not lobbying reform. If the 4th estate was doing its job, people (including lawmakers) would be better informed and we would have a better democracy. As things stand now, the electorate and lawmakers make their decisions based on a distorted view of the world. Lobbying is vital part of the process, not the problem. The problem is the news media.

What do they have for breakfast on K street,

Special K?

Well isn't that special...

donviti @ 1:

butttttt, can this guy really win? hillary has pushed herself to the center on so many issues.

I totally agree that THIS is THE ISSUE that Edwards and Obama need to run with. It is a huge issue in middle america and it isn't a right or left debate.

court this issue and you can get to that middle ground we need to bring the country back together.

Don't you think it's quite uncharacteristic of the GOP to not be smearing Hillary right now for obvious skeletons in her closet? I do. In fact, I'd take it a step further in that it's probably a "plan" by the GOP to prop up Hillary as the "candidate" because they know they have so much on her that they'll shoot her down like shooting a fish in a barrel.

When the GOP actually compliments a candidate, beware! It's part of the plan.

Hey all I want to do is play Second Life!

Is that so wrong!

Of the Democratic candidates out there, I think Edwards easily has the most integrity.

But, these days, that doesn't count for much.

Yeah, technically, Edward is still out of touch with us common folk but, so what? I don't want a president that I'd like to have a beer with. We've lived through that shitty criteria with the chimp!

Edwards has been pulling neck in neck and sometimes in front of Hillary in some areas. He's likeable and honest, so it would seem. However, his "yea" vote on the Iraq War will besmerch him and put "blood on his hands".

What we need are candidates without war profiteering blood money on their hands. Kucinich voted "no" on the Iraq War and Obama didn't vote at all because he was not there to vote. Both of these are not bloodied candidates.

However, I'd like to see someone rise from the outside this time around so there won't be even a hint of contamination on the candidate....like Al Gore....like Michael Bloomberg.

Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 33:

Of the Democratic candidates out there, I think Edwards easily has the most integrity.

But, these days, that doesn't count for much.

Yeah, technically, Edward is still out of touch with us common folk but, so what? I don't want a president that I'd like to have a beer with. We've lived through that shitty criteria with the chimp!

Unfortunately, what we didn't know that along with having that beer, we'd be supping with one whose brain has been destroyed by years of alcohol abuse.

Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 33:

I don't want a president that I'd like to have a beer with. We've lived through that shitty criteria with the chimp!

I'd like a President to play X-Box with.

Orwell's Illegitimate Son @ 26:

Geez, are you people easily conned. I'm beginning to think you're drinking the same Kool-Aid that the Bush lovers ingest.

Seriously, you folks are proof-positive that you really CAN fool some of the people all of the time. John Edwards cares about you? Get a grip on reality.

What kind of silliness is this? Of course John Edwards doesn't care about me. He doesn't even know me. What democrats look for in a candidate is someone who cares enough about the JOB they do to do it well. It seems to me that Edwards knows what doing a good job would look like. That's what I care about.

Nicholas @ 29:

Edwards is dead wrong. Lobbyists are an essential part of the lawmaking process. A competent lawmaker must interact with lobbyists. Big companies are required to make decisions that affect large numbers every day, and do so within a legal framework. Their voices need to be heard by lawmakers who are in a position to alter and improve that framework.

Lawmakers must also, however, consider the public interest. The problem today is that the views of large corporations are overrepresented in the public discourse. What we need is media law reform, not lobbying reform. If the 4th estate was doing its job, people (including lawmakers) would be better informed and we would have a better democracy. As things stand now, the electorate and lawmakers make their decisions based on a distorted view of the world. Lobbying is vital part of the process, not the problem. The problem is the news media.


But this is clearly as case of "lobbyist overkill" these days with three or four lobbyists per Congressman. Give me a break! They heckle these guys to death and continuously.

It used to be that lobbyists were "industry experts" and when called upon for their expertise (operative words: "when called upon") they could provide valuable information in their respective areas. However, this is far from what's occurring today.

It's one thing to provide expertise; it's entirely another to provide "payola" - dontcha love that old word? It covers a multitude of sins, doesn't it?

Bribing politicians to then vote favorably on the issues impacting their respective industries is not "lobbying" - it's illegal and it's called "blackmail".

[Off topic blogwhoring]

Campaign finance reform IS the only answer to this illegal activity which is occurring within Congress.

Nicholas @ 29: embarrassingly said the following

Edwards is dead wrong. Lobbyists are an essential part of the lawmaking process. A competent lawmaker must interact with lobbyists.

Good lord we understand that it is NOT "meeting with" that matters, it's corruption, right? Are you kidding? Is this a joke?

The problem is money, being bought, needing to raise millions of dollars to get re-elected. You don't "meet a lobbyist," you get a "###-job" from them, and a huge bank account. John talks about refusing the money! And that is principled action I support, wholeheartedly!

Edwards is talking about refusing the money! Not "I refuse to listen" he says "I wont take the money." There are lots of countries that have publicly financed elections, let's study them. And make the hidden transfer of money to politicians a crime in all circumstances.

It is beyond the pale to try and muddy this issue by suggesting this about anything except corruption.

Lots and lots of well paid lobbyists will filling our chat rooms, meetings and blogs with crap like this, but don't be fooled it's about the corruption, not "listening." I am not saying, to be clear, that the poster is or was a lobbyist, just that he doesn't "get it" and that John Edwards does.

isis11 @ 40:

Campaign finance reform IS the only answer to this illegal activity which is occurring within Congress.

Campaign finance reform is a start. But the larger issue is with the American people. I would say that education reform is the key. Once we get Americans to be members of the "reality-based community," a lot of these problems will go away.

For the present, I'm wondering why our system of checks and balances is so weak as to allow the kind of abuse that's going on here. Fact is, the foxes are guarding the hen house, and no good can come of that.

Hey, I just realized why they decided to go with "Fox News" as a name. I'm such an idiot!

Paying Attention @ 42:

isis11 @ 40:

Campaign finance reform IS the only answer to this illegal activity which is occurring within Congress.

Campaign finance reform is a start. But the larger issue is with the American people. I would say that education reform is the key. Once we get Americans to be members of the "reality-based community," a lot of these problems will go away.

For the present, I'm wondering why our system of checks and balances is so weak as to allow the kind of abuse that's going on here. Fact is, the foxes are guarding the hen house, and no good can come of that.

I agree with you wholeheartedly in a "reality-based community"; however, BushCo has contorted reality so dramatically and so Orwellian-ly that up is down, lies are truth, and fiction has become our reality. So how can you legitimately blame the people and place the onus of responsibility squarely on their shoulders when traditional definitions have been handily reversed to boggle their minds?

When up is the new down and lies become the new "truth", what's left of that "reality-based community" anyway? Absolutely nothing.

The progressives need to redefine the language of politics and bring back traditional definitions of words in order to begin speaking the language of truth once again. That's as I see it.

'TRUTH' is actually all that exists in any given circumstance and in every given moment. The rest is pure "fiction". The Bush Administration has been engaged in rewriting history while we sleep, rigging elections while we're napping, and scripting their fiction as Truth. Wake up, folks....

Political campaigns are about perception, not policy. American policy of governance, foreign and domestic, is imperial and is designed to serve the interests of capitalism. Those rare periods of somewhat progressive politics have been in the service of capitalism by checking its inherent and most destructive tendencies. That has not been the case for a generation, and there is no one nor group any longer in a position of power either willing or able to save capitalism from itself. Edwards cannot be trusted anymore than any other of its political servants.

It's clear that the people can no longer sit back and trust our elected officials to represent us. It IS taxation without representation. And, let's never forget that our tax dollars are paying the salaries of these frauds in office. The People hold the final card - the salary card. Just like the Dems held the "pursestrings" card in the Iraq War Bendover, the People still hold the money card in supporting this Government. This may be our only point of power at this point if our elections are corrupted.

sulphurdunn @ 46:

Political campaigns are about perception, not policy. American policy of governance, foreign and domestic, is imperial and is designed to serve the interests of capitalism. Those rare periods of somewhat progressive politics have been in the service of capitalism by checking its inherent and most destructive tendencies. That has not been the case for a generation, and there is no one nor group any longer in a position of power either willing or able to save capitalism from itself. Edwards cannot be trusted anymore than any other of its political servants.

As much as I would like to find Edwards compelling enough to vote for him, he does have a certain "ick factor" when it comes to my gut instinct. something about his rhetoric simply doesn't gel for me. I prefer Obama but he's a bit too wet behind the ears for the high level of chicanery and corruption which is cemented into DC these days, I fear.

Exactly. Edwards is the only sane choice between him and Hillary.

sulphurdunn @ 46:

Political campaigns are about perception, not policy. American policy of governance, foreign and domestic, is imperial and is designed to serve the interests of capitalism. Those rare periods of somewhat progressive politics have been in the service of capitalism by checking its inherent and most destructive tendencies. That has not been the case for a generation, and there is no one nor group any longer in a position of power either willing or able to save capitalism from itself. Edwards cannot be trusted anymore than any other of its political servants.

Well, then, that makes this whole voting thing pretty pointless. Oligarchy for president, then!

Seriously though, I'm tired of this whole distrust of politicians rhetoric. It does us no good. The point of representative democracy is to vote for those that we think are MOST LIKELY to do a good job, and then to hold them accountable if they don't. It's the people, not the politicians, we need to worry about.

Paying Attention @ 43:

Hey, I just realized why they decided to go with "Fox News" as a name. I'm such an idiot!

Outfoxing most of the US, surely

I am big Edwards and grassroots supporter and wanted to let others know about a free bumper sticker I just signed up for. Here is the link.

Edwards is a good man. In this twisted world is targeted and attacked on the spot.
That's the saddest thing of all.

IMO, Edwards might be a tourniquet. I was going to say, like a couple of aspirin, but we're too far gone for that.

What-the-f***-ever.

They all need millions of dollars to run for office and they all end up on K Street one way or another.

It's not as if we don't know this, so why this purity game?

ChadFred @ 52:

I am big Edwards and grassroots supporter and wanted to let others know about a free bumper sticker I just signed up for. Here is the link.

Thanks for the link! It's still too early for me to make a bumper-sticker-commitment yet, but I actually liked the Edwards design. Hmmm....presidential aesthetics?

dennis kucinich , hes the man for the little people and im not talking about any irish lepracons! kucinich 08!

Arroyo @ 55:

What-the-f***-ever.

They all need millions of dollars to run for office and they all end up on K Street one way or another.

It's not as if we don't know this, so why this purity game?

I'm not into the idea of surrendering before the fight is over (no matter what repubs say). I want us to force the front-runners to say a lot about this issue so we can at least get them on record. As often as possible.

Arroyo @ 55:

What-the-f***-ever.

They all need millions of dollars to run for office and they all end up on K Street one way or another.

It's not as if we don't know this, so why this purity game?

OK then, Bush it is!

Nicholas @ 29:

Edwards is dead wrong. Lobbyists are an essential part of the lawmaking process. A competent lawmaker must interact with lobbyists. Big companies are required to make decisions that affect large numbers every day, and do so within a legal framework. Their voices need to be heard by lawmakers who are in a position to alter and improve that framework.

Lawmakers must also, however, consider the public interest. The problem today is that the views of large corporations are overrepresented in the public discourse. What we need is media law reform, not lobbying reform. If the 4th estate was doing its job, people (including lawmakers) would be better informed and we would have a better democracy. As things stand now, the electorate and lawmakers make their decisions based on a distorted view of the world. Lobbying is vital part of the process, not the problem. The problem is the news media.

You need desperately to move - to ANY part of the world of "democracy" where bakshish is an established, cultural payola/blackmail as usual for centuries (Middle East, Turkey, India, Far East, fmr CARs, etc - a lot of choices !).. If you are a troll: go and get your check for the day, don't take any more of C&L's server space.

isis11 @ 44:

Paying Attention @ 42:

isis11 @ 40:

Campaign finance reform IS the only answer to this illegal activity which is occurring within Congress.

Campaign finance reform is a start. But the larger issue is with the American people. I would say that education reform is the key. Once we get Americans to be members of the "reality-based community," a lot of these problems will go away.

For the present, I'm wondering why our system of checks and balances is so weak as to allow the kind of abuse that's going on here. Fact is, the foxes are guarding the hen house, and no good can come of that.

I agree with you wholeheartedly in a "reality-based community"; however, BushCo has contorted reality so dramatically and so Orwellian-ly that up is down, lies are truth, and fiction has become our reality. So how can you legitimately blame the people and place the onus of responsibility squarely on their shoulders when traditional definitions have been handily reversed to boggle their minds?

When up is the new down and lies become the new "truth", what's left of that "reality-based community" anyway? Absolutely nothing.

The progressives need to redefine the language of politics and bring back traditional definitions of words in order to begin speaking the language of truth once again. That's as I see it.

I don't know if I buy the fact that Americans have no way of making sense of the Bush-speak. In fact, I do think that the majority of Americans are actually smarter than Bush. Instead, I think that, on some level, Americans have known for some time that something wasn't quite right with this crew. However, they wanted to suppress that uncomfortable feeling in order to get into the Bush universe. It's that squishy feeling that people get when watching TV or getting high. We're addicted to checking out. It's a cultural problem. And an educational problem.

donviti @ 1:

butttttt, can this guy really win? hillary has pushed herself to the center on so many issues.

Ben @ 20:

Gore/Edwards please?

AL!!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?!! =[

A dream ticket for me...however, the Dems could run a dead, decaying plant and I'd still vote for it!

Score one for Edwards.

I hope he has not accepted lobbyist money and know the gop has.

Wouldn't it be funny if the election of 2008 came between Hillary and Ghoulianni? They'd be trying to out-glam each other.

I believe in public financing of elections and I think that lobbyists have undo influence. However, Edward's attempts at attacking Hillary on Saturday left with a bad taste in my mouth. A large issue facing our economy today is how to go about taxing private equity's. Currently the capital gains tax resides at a comfy 15% allowing companies to rake in huge profits without paying the normal 35% income tax. This has come under scrutiny recently and will most likely change sometime in our next presidents term. Edwards while happily noting that he in fact does not take money from WASHINGTON lobbyists attempted to skirt Dennis K's question about him refusing money from hedge funds and the like. Investors in hedge funds certainly own large stakes in the same industries that employ lobbyists and because of the potential rise in taxes have more to lose with a candidate that is not in bed with them.

Eric @ 4:

Wasn't he and Hillary recently caught on video conspiring to exclude the other, lesser known Democratic Presidential candidates from any future debates?

Yes, indeed. And here, he's doing a verbal end run right around Obama. I like Edwards's platform, but his jockeying for power is strangely unsubtle for a successful trial lawyer.

ysbaddaden @ 66:

Wouldn't it be funny if the election of 2008 came between Hillary and Ghoulianni? They'd be trying to out-glam each other.

Ghoulianni would have prettier shoes, for sure.

It isn't just lobbyist campaign contributions that bother me. I wish someone would ask Hillary if Bill will continue to make speeches at $200,000 to $400,000 a pop if she is elected president.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/22/AR200702...

Last year, one of his most lucrative since he left the presidency, Clinton earned $9 million to $10 million on the lecture circuit.

Many of Bill Clinton's six-figure speeches have been made to companies whose employees and political action committees have been among Hillary Clinton's top backers in her Senate campaigns. The New York investment giant Goldman Sachs paid him $650,000 for four speeches in recent years. Its employees and PAC have given her $270,000 since 2000 -- putting it second on the list of her most generous political patrons.

The banking firm Citigroup, whose employees and PAC have been Hillary Clinton's top source of campaign donations, with more than $320,000, paid her husband $250,000 for a speech in France in 2004.

Foreign clients have included Saudi Arabia's Dabbagh investment firm, which paid $600,000 for two speeches, and China's JingJi Real Estate Development Group, run by a local Communist Party official, which paid $200,000 for a speech.

Citigroup is one of the biggest outsourcers of American jobs.

I also would like to hear Hillary tell us whether she favors changing media ownership laws. This past weekend, she stated that she didn't know anything about the 1996 Telecommunications Act, that it was all Al Gore's doing. I guess it was Al who signed it into law, too.

Damned Tired of the DLC @ 70:

It isn't just lobbyist campaign contributions that bother me. I wish someone would ask Hillary if Bill will continue to make speeches at $200,000 to $400,000 a pop if she is elected president.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/22/AR200702...

...

Citigroup is one of the biggest outsourcers of American jobs.

I also would like to hear Hillary tell us whether she favors changing media ownership laws. This past weekend, she stated that she didn't know anything about the 1996 Telecommunications Act, that it was all Al Gore's doing. I guess it was Al who signed it into law, too.

Don't forget Rupert Murdoch backs Hillary. And he doesn't DO favours. He fully expects quid pro quo from the pols he buys. He's done it for decades. If you don't play his way once you get in, he'll show you the door...

"Don’t forget Rupert Murdoch backs Hillary"

Hillary has changed her story 180 degrees SINCE LAST DEC.. Anyone recall? She spoke FOR Iraq occupation and told the guy in the audience to "vote for someone else if you don't like it".

Now she wears pink, is first at debates, AND COMPLETELY CHANGED HER POSITION ON THE WAR.

Hillary is SHIT packaged in cellophane. Watch out for her and don't even THINK of voting for her.

Any friend of Rupert's is no friend of ours.

Any friend of Rupert’s is no friend of ours.

Right on

The bolding in hooptycritter's post is mine - SOoooo TRUE ! Check out the added links below, esp.video!

hooptycritter @ 9:

Edwards is a much better choice than the very compromised Hillary Clinton and the "audacity of " pure ambition Obama. At least Edwards is taking stands instead of constantly triangulating and hedging. Clinton and Obama have offered very little substance to go with their "vote for me b/c I'm me" campaigns.
I will vote to someone with a spine, not someone who offers the same content free drivel.

I challenge all Clinton and Obama supporters to show the rest of us any policies that they have suggested that are substantively different from the Republican-lite policies of Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton's policies were more conservative than Richard Nixon's. The Obama / Hillary horse race is a race to the same policies that have made the US resemble a banana republic - there are the very rich then there is everyone else who must deal every day with job and income insecurity.

Edwards is not perfect but at least he is taking some clear stands on issues that could help the majority of Americans.

I'd add that these lobyyists made Clintons rich, advancing them from have-nots trailer trash in Arkansas to now (Clintons' both Chapaqua, and DC, homes were purchased by the "friends and supporters". They had NO place/home to go back to in Arkansas, except of the 'double-trailer' used by them during his governator years).

Obama is following the same path, w/ 'friends' buying him extra 10 feet of his house backyard ! (as reported by Chicago media - a US future presidente using a mobster, haggling about his backyard fence, all ten feet of it!!??!! to be in charge of 300 MLN nation ???!!) . Obama is a totally confused demagogue (just as Booosh) is he a pastor, or whatever else, offering nothing but rhetoric on sporadic unrelated items, and never knows is he at the church pulpit or political rally.

Hillary is the most premeditated and controlling of ALL the candidates, on both sides.
She is another Booosh CLONE !!!
at YKOS Convention Hillary was BOOOOOOED by the netroot bloggers for defending her "For SALE' attitude w/ lobbyists !

Hillary "refused Saturday to forsake campaign donations from lobbyists, turning aside challenges from her two main rivals with a rare defense of the special interest industry.
She refused responsibility for her crappy 'medical insurance' schemes written by big pharma/insurance corpocrats, which have tanked BECAUSE of her ever-lasting affair with ANY money that she can suck up to, including the strong anti-universal care lobby. The other day she's stated her BS medical care plan was great, but marketing ("political side") lacked..!!!! She should be with Falafel Orally on his Falafel Fucter, w/ Pennis Miller as her only positive commentator.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

A lot of those lobbyists, whether you like it or not, represent real Americans, they actually do,” Clinton said, drawing boos and hisses from liberal bloggers at the second Yearly Kos convention."

.."Mr. Edwards said: “Now I think my party, the Democratic party, the party of the people, ought to say from this day forward we will never take a dime from these Washington insiders.”

Then it was Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s turn: “Well, well, I think it’s a position that John certainly has taken. Well, I have to say that I don’t, I don’t think based on my 35 years in fighting for what I believe in anybody
seriously believes I am going to be influenced by a lobbyist or a particular interest group.”

At that point, the audience booed loudly. And Senator Clinton actually seemed to chuckle a bit — and said, “I’ve been waiting for this” in acknowledgment that she wasn’t necessarily on the top of the blogosphere’s favorite
candidates — as people laughed. ""

She IS LAUGHING OFF real concerns of every decent American - her 'TRUST ME" bullshit is just like from Booosh, Gonzo, and all other criminals.

Why would C&L ever be promoting this arrogant and patronizing white trash beeeach with NO substance ? That is NOT electable in national election no matter what AIPAC dems/Rahm Emanuel & Co/ try to twist around and push down our throats.

Edwards is being villyfied bc he knows HOW to fight the corpocracy, or, at least to get them by their gonads..
Edwards wants for EVERY American "The right to succeed on your own MERITS' He even addresses the "$400 haircuts!" Good sense of humor is very important in high stress jobs more than anywhere else. See this informative, easy going 19:00 minutes recent clip.

John Edwards at Cooper Union (NYC)
http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1078637782&channel=29794487
Jul 3, 2007 Added
Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards discusses his plan to attack poverty, and other issues in the 2008 election.

CappuccettoRossso @ 74:

Why would C&L ever be promoting this arrogant and patronizing white trash beeeach with NO substance ?

Seriously. Your rhetorical style is unfortunate. If you are, in fact, trying the help Edwards, this isn't the way to do it.

Well don't forget also Gravel is more liberal than these guys as well. I don't think however Kos claims to be liberal but progressive I think. Just check out his YearlyKos speech I think he talks about that. Doesn't Edwards take corporate money as well? I would love to see a post on here comparing all candidates and their money and if any of them gets corporate money and put it for all of us to see.

One thing that made me mad with the whole rally thing is when his introducer called him "the next president of the United States." WTF? The first primary isn't until next January! By than Edwards could be a nobody in the race since we don't know.

Emily @ 77:

One thing that made me mad with the whole rally thing is when his introducer called him "the next president of the United States." WTF? The first primary isn't until next January! By than Edwards could be a nobody in the race since we don't know.

Oh, well...they always do that. It's the protocol now. Irritating and meaningless, but certainly not confined to the Edwards campaign.

I agree about Edwards. I may still have my issue(s) with him (mostly on how he hasn't apologized for cosponsering IWR and just for his vote but maybe to him it's one and the same) but if it really came down between Clinton, Edwards and Obama I would vote for Edwards over Clinton and Obama any day who pretty much are one and the same on the issues if you listen to them.

My money is on the black guy.

Edwards criticizes Bill Clinton over NAFTA:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070806/ap_on_el_pr/edwards_trade

Yeah! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout!

I think it has been well documented by this time that the captured Edwards aside to Hillary had to do with narrowing and focusing the themes of the debates, not narrowing the field of participants. The questions are all over the place and in some cases, inane, and the resulting sound bites aren't good for much-certainly, they don't give us the insight needed to make informed decisions. All the debates really serve to do is reinforce already established opinion. It seems quite evident, citing just this comments thread as an example, that even informed, intelligent people line up allegiance according to the viewpoints foisted upon a captive audience by the media (are people still really talking about the haircut?).
Edwards will have my vote. Don't make the mistake of reading too little into anything he says--it's absurd for you to believe there's chicanery associated with his acknowledgment of his white maleness related to electability. It's called plain speaking in the face of indisputable circumstances and has nothing to do with bigotry, misogynism (I have two words for you: Elizabeth Edwards) or arrogance. Some things worth saying require a price for the saying.
I've been pulling for John since he announced and have watched him move steadily closer to the favorites. I have confidence in his ethos and his embrace of classic strategies. Slow and steady, after all, does win the race.
Edwards/Kucinich would rock. . .

I [heart] Edwards, no doubt, and I'd be happy enough if he won, but it must be said his hypocrisy on this topic is mind boggling. He did bring a lot of his own cash to the campaign, but a substantial amount has also contributed by members of the AAJ (nee ATLA). He's bought and paid for by trial lawyers, which I suppose is fine if that's your thing. But just because the individuals in the industry who help foot his bills aren't registered as lobbyists doesn't mean the same basic function isn't occuring and it's disingenuous at best for Edwards to pretend otherwise. *gasp!* A politician being disingenuous! How dare I?

No candidate is perfect - that bar's too high. I'm willing to vote Edwards but really you won't steal my heart unless it's with an Obama/Gore (and not Gore/Obama) ticket. My heart may be cheap but it's not easy. :-)

-E

[Deleted. Off topic]

Edwards sounds like Eliot Spitzer. The holier than thou approach is a dangerous one because he won't get cut any slack if is is less than totally perfect on all ethics issues. I don't trust people who live in $20,000,000 mansions and then say they are the friend of the little guy.

donviti @ 1:

butttttt, can this guy really win? hillary has pushed herself to the center on so many issues.

I totally agree that THIS is THE ISSUE that Edwards and Obama need to run with. It is a huge issue in middle america and it isn't a right or left debate.

court this issue and you can get to that middle ground we need to bring the country back together.

Are you sh*tting me? This is the only guy who can win. Clinton or Obama have absolutely no f-ing chance in the general election.

crazylove @ 61:

Arroyo @ 55:

What-the-f***-ever.

They all need millions of dollars to run for office and they all end up on K Street one way or another.

It's not as if we don't know this, so why this purity game?

OK then, Bush it is!

... if you say so.
I'm not ready to disarm. If you want to be pure and accept no money from K Street (Corporate America) then you're going to be ceding the territory to bozos like George W. Bush - period, end of story.

Howard Beale Is My Muse @ 82:

.
..... Edwards will have my vote. Don't make the mistake of reading too little into anything he says--it's absurd for you to believe there's chicanery associated with his acknowledgment of his white maleness related to electability. It's called plain speaking in the face of indisputable circumstances and has nothing to do with bigotry, misogynism (I have two words for you: Elizabeth Edwards) or arrogance. Some things worth saying require a price for the saying.
I've been pulling for John since he announced and have watched him move steadily closer to the favorites. I have confidence in his ethos and his embrace of classic strategies. Slow and steady, after all, does win the race.

Edwards/Kucinich would rock. . .

I don't know enough about Kucinich yet, and, didn't think about how strategic his VP placement would be. Obama would be an undesired stone around Edwards'es neck, since his baggage/ immature, superficial attttitooode are so contrary to Edwards'es pretty detailed knowledge.

The REAL event of the YKOS convention was the blogger crowd 1,500 or so strong, boooing Hillary making her OWN usual statements, not Edwards 'trying' this or that. I hope against the hope C&L to be less obsessed with Hillary-the-great (hogging the field under "Category" C&L articles [ Clintons (69) + Hillary Clinton (26) + Bill Clinton (14); vs. Edwards (26); no Obama nor Kucinich "category" at all ]), with not a single fault nor her dangerous superficiality ever mentioned, and give us better and OBJECTIVE take on other dems candidates. Such a position seems very helpful for the next repig to get into the WH. And, us, the people, in the Halliburton Hospitality Centers, repig, or Hillary.
My response to another poster's post here re: importance of Edwards keeping fire under Clinton enabling the NAFTA disaster continued by Booosh, and its link to collapsed 35W bridge got deleted, again.. So much for 'objective' ..

Arroyo @ 87:

crazylove @ 61:

Arroyo @ 55:

What-the-f***-ever.

They all need millions of dollars to run for office and they all end up on K Street one way or another.

It's not as if we don't know this, so why this purity game?

OK then, Bush it is!

... if you say so.
I'm not ready to disarm. If you want to be pure and accept no money from K Street (Corporate America) then you're going to be ceding the territory to bozos like George W. Bush - period, end of story.

It takes many to tango with this. Congress feeds there too .. Only the new LAW could disable this - w/Hillary that would never happen, just as with George Bush, or any next repig. Edwards - there is a hope, with results unknown (see:tango..).

I haven't heard anything regarding Edwards' wife and her cancer. This is what bothers me, a husband whose wife is going through cancer treatment, and he continues to run for the presidency. I have a friend who is going through this right now and I can't IMAGINE how they would do this if her husband were running a campaign to run for president. To me, it just strikes of extreme hubris on Edward's part. There are many implications regarding her cancer, not just the treatment, but if and when she dies, will he start dating and WHO will he date and marry in the future. Grieving for your wife and then say he falls in love again...these are two extreme states of mind that could greatly effect how he runs this country. Also, his whole 'hair thing' really bothered me. It might be a small concern to some, but sometimes small things can speak about greater issues. There are a lot of things I like about this guy, but these are some of the things that are on my mind concerning him. I don't know who I'm voting for yet, but anyone other than republican, for sure.
Will Ralph Nader run?

Figures that some of the self-proclaimed liberals would
waste a vote on fringe Dem candidates while the Repubs
will vote for anybody that's nominated.  Nader my ass.
You dopes want another Repub president? For Christ's sake
wake up. BTW- Ron Paul sucks. Check his record & Kucinich
couldn't be elected dog catcher.

As regards lobbiests, Obamma's hands are the only ones that are clean (ammongst the top 3). I don't trust Edwards or Hillary.

Waiting for Gore to announce.

tiger cub @ 24:

Edwards is running a smart campaign - and I'd like to like him. There have been a few moments however that have caused me to distrust him, the most notable being his comment (to the effect) that unlike Hillary and Obama he could win in the South; iow he's a white male.

WRONG!!!

In other words, he HAS WON in the south, in a general election, aka, the Senate. Winning a Senate seat is the equivalent of a Presidential candidate winning a state and getting its electoral votes.

Edwards didn't say that Clinton and Obama couldn't win in the south, or all over the country.

HE SAID THAT HE COULD. Should he say that he can't?

If they believe they can win anywhere they should say it, but they won't, because they don't even believe that they can.

Nominate Clinton or Obama and get the same stupid strategy that Kerry believed he should have run of targeting only a few states.

Edwards is interesting but he gave 1.5 million to a campany that funds one of the most preditory Health Care companies show cased on Sicko. So he is still suspect to me. I don't know why we keep voting for these silver spoon feed people as if they really care about us. In the end they will almost always look out for their own.

There is a reason why Hillary is ahead and it has nothing to do with the wishes of the populace. The Status Quo wants her and needs her and, most likely, they will have her. If she is the final candidate, for the first time since I have eligible I will not vote for president.

I'm still hoping for St. Albert to ride to our rescue (and praying he has hacked away his DLC roots). Without Gore, Edwards is by far the best candidate and I enthusiastically support him.

A dream ticket is Gore/Edwards

MarkT @ 85:

Edwards sounds like Eliot Spitzer. The holier than thou approach is a dangerous one because he won't get cut any slack if is is less than totally perfect on all ethics issues. I don't trust people who live in $20,000,000 mansions and then say they are the friend of the little guy.

Edwards lives in a nice house, sure. His ethics are certainly far far better than anyone else running save for Kuchinik. Edwards went out of his way to avoid corporate funding and many of us contributed to an appeal from his wife. I mean, he DOES need funding to compete right?
Just because he has money doesn't mean he shouldn't be trusted. I think he is a bone-deep decent man who happens to be attractive as well. In addition, WHY BE BRATTY WHEN BUSH IS IN THE WH? Let's not be so quick about such petty things while a monster sits in the WH!

I believe him completely when he says all boats should rise. Our soldiers would get every single benefit and dignity coming to them, we would get health care, we'll have jobs in the green industry, he'll encourage industries to stick around with tax breaks, he'll HEAL OUR COUNTRY!
He has suffered greatly in his life and is no stranger to the gut-wrenching prospect of losing a wife and friend he loves deeply. He is humble.

And like Orwell's Illigitimate Son, makes me purr like a kitten. With Edwards in the WH we could be good again, we could sleep at night unconcerned about cruelty, hatred,insantiy, man's inhumanity to man....now I'm tearing up a bit.

The weakness for Hillary is not the campaign contributions, it is the cash payments to Bill Clinton ($41 million and counting) that the lobby groups pay him in return for speeches. You have to wonder if when the National Mortgage Banker's association pays Bill $100,000+ for a speech they are perhaps expecting something more than an hour of politic-speak in return. Hillary is trying to push through a bill that would protect the mortgage bankers from competition... Probably just a coincidence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/22/AR200702...

Former president Bill Clinton, who came to the White House with modest means and left deeply in debt, has collected nearly $40 million in speaking fees over the past six years, according to interviews and financial disclosure statements filed by his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.)....

His paid speeches included $150,000 appearances before landlord groups, biotechnology firms and food distributors, as well as speeches in England, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia that together netted him more than $1.6 million. On one particularly good day in Canada, Clinton made $475,000 for two speeches, more than double his annual salary as president.

The article doesn't mention the possiblity of a conflict of interest in a man speaking for pay in front of interest groups while his wife is in the Senate.

For even more fun, Bill Clinton appears in front of lobby groups with George Bush. You can't make this up: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2109950,00.asp. Who is the CTIA? A telelecom lobby group, of course.

Arroyo @ 87:

crazylove @ 61:

Arroyo @ 55:

What-the-f***-ever.

They all need millions of dollars to run for office and they all end up on K Street one way or another.

It's not as if we don't know this, so why this purity game?

OK then, Bush it is!

... if you say so.
I'm not ready to disarm. If you want to be pure and accept no money from K Street (Corporate America) then you're going to be ceding the territory to bozos like George W. Bush - period, end of story.

Arroyo, please accept my apology. I misread and misresponded to your thought. You are right on actually!

We should not forget what happened in the last Presidential election with Edwards. Coming from the Carolinas, Edwards had a ready made issue that would have united right, left and center, and could have carried that ticket all the way to the White House. I am talking about how badly the mislabeled 'Free Trade' treaties like NAFTA had savaged the American worker. The Carolinas was truly ravaged by the vast increase in outsourcing after NAFTA passed. So had a number of battleground states like Ohio.

Edwards was making headway hitting on this issue. Then the National Association of Manufacturers, the Chamber of Commerce and other corporate meat puppets told him to cool it.

Edwards complied.
They lost.
This is somebody you think will fight for the American worker?

Now he's trumpeting his position which he says will downsize outsourcing and off shoring. He conveniently forgets his pandering, along with Hillary and the rest of these heroes of the American worker, to the Silicone Valley special interests where he has been arguing for an INCREASE in H1b visas.
Google the "Job Destruction newsletter"

Its a shell game folks.
These game show contestants are in the pockets of the mega corporations.

Oh please, how "dumb" are some of you, to be shocked/disappointed about Edwards' and Hillary's taped comments speaking off the record?

Do you not understand Politics? Surely you can't be that naive...?

Like it or not, THIS is what we have this go around, and there's no hero on a silver steed that's going to come along and rescue us. Obama is certainly not that guy; his voting record is identical to Hillary's...period.

WIth that said, Edwards or Clinton are two very good choices as far as I'm concerned, for different reasons..but then again, I'd take almost any republican over this god*amn shrub we have in office.

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