Right Winger Sites Manufacture Controversy to Smear YKos
By Nicole Belle Sunday Aug 05, 2007 3:32pmPerhaps smarting from how bad they came across in the Max Blumenthal videos of CPAC and the Young Republicans convention (and even they are minimally self-aware enough to have figured out that they looked really, really bad), there were some conservatives looking to make the netroots look equally hack-y at the YearlyKos convention.
So predictably, Malkin, Drudge and the NRO (I won't link to them because they deserve your scorn, not your hits) trumpeted that a soldier was censored by Kossacks trying to speak in defense of the military. Because, you know, liberals don't support the troops like the right does. (/snark) Such a tired and vastly unsubstantiated meme. Here's the exchange in question:
So technically, what the right wingers said is what happened. However, here is where they are fundamentally dishonest (*gasp!* Malkin, Drudge and PajamasMedia, dishonest? Shocking, I know): the sergeant in question was told repeatedly that he would be in violation of the UCMJ if he made any kind of political speech in uniform. You can't hear it from the video here, but according to witnesses, the sergeant ADMITTED HE KNEW HE WAS BREAKING THE RULES:
Soltz, who is still a Captain in the Reserves, at that point had heard all he wanted to hear. As an officer, he took it upon himself to reprimand the sergeant for breaking the Uniform Code of Military Justice, left the stage, and went to confront the soldier. In fact, if he hadn't reprimanded the soldier, he could have been seen as condoning the act-and none of us wanted to do that. [..]
The bottom line is this: The sergeant in uniform was completely out of line as far as the military is concerned. The fact that he did what he did reflected on the entire Army and I think that's what upset Jon the most.
In the Pajamas Media video of the scene, even the sergeant readily admits that he was breaking the rules. And that's not what the Army is about. So this wasn't about stifling dissent. It was about an intruder who had no respect for the Kossacks who'd paid to attend, as well as no desire maintain military bearing while in uniform.
The whole account is here. So for the right-wingers who want to crow about this...let it be known what really happened.
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What we really need: A ‘STING’ FROM NBC’S DATELINE: ‘EXPOSING’ RIGHTWINGERS
Saw the video and on a different note..... It really seemed to me that the young officer had some problems. It was painful to watch him. I sincerely think he is troubled and needs help. I hope for his sake this brouhaha dies down soon.
LIBEL
SLANDER
Time to test.
I can almost see BilllO loading his gun with bullshit and aiming it this way.
i wounder why malkin and drudge report arn't servincing in iraq, since they love this occupation so much. malkin reason was because she was too short and have two small children that needed her. i wanted to slap her, hello there are pleanty of short, woman with children that are serving in iraqi, you warmongering chickenhawk.
Oh man, we had a huge debate about this last night over at TP.
This little teapot tempest has really knotted up some panties over at Little Green Noballs. They're obsessed with Kos. It's funny.
Well, to be fair to the chickenhawks, How would they know anything about UCMJ.
Wasn't there a reich-wing implosion a few months ago over a US Soldier marching in an anti-war protest while in uniform?
Anyone for tennis?
One wingnut posting over at TP repeatedly referred to this poor soldier being arrested and led off in shackles. And, of course, it's liberals who hate dissent and refuse to listen to other people's opinions.
Habbahabba . . .
Dr. Matt @ 9:
Yep.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070604/military-protest-hearing/
One difference is that the anti-war marine was wearing his fatigues without any insignia or names as a theatrical attempt to represent any soldier (which is not outlawed by the UCMJ). It looked like this sergeant was wearing everything he could and then some.
bsk @ 2:
Who are you talking about? Capt. Soltz or the Sergeant? Trust me it could have gone much worse for the enlisted guy. They let the guy have his say. His free speech wasn't violated. Malkin is a sleeze bag for putting the poor guy up to it. He should have never showed up in his Class A's. Period.
Old Billy @ 12:
Thanks, Bill. Here is the C&L link.
I checked out Pajamaline, and the comments there are so misinformed. I liked the ones that said John Kerry appeared at protests in uniform and the ones that said no soldiers would ever support democrats (ignoring Soltz and Wesley Clark in the video).
bsk @ 2:
I think you're talking about the young sergeant. And, yes, he seemed sincere and troubled.
Yeah well the very fact that "Mil-Blogs" exist is a violation in my opinion. If you say you are in the military, but you are really wearing your underwear while you SAY IT, then beat your keyboard to death glorifying the political decisions of the Bush administration and soliciting republican votes, then you are making people believe that the military endorses your political viewpoint. Especially if you tell people they are Traitors for even having an opinion contrary to the military.
In my mind mil-blogs with political opinions should be shut down since the very word "military" or any variant there-of, should be shut down and their owners prosecuted.
Rusty Shackleford @ 7:
As is the majority of the reich-wing. Sadly, the majority of American has no one idea of what a "Kos" is let alone a blog. If the reich-wing and Faux think they are going to take down the Left by going after blogs, well, that's a pretty sad state of affairs for the GOP.
Seriously, whether you're on the "right" or the "left", there's so much more important things going on. All this petty blog bickering between the right and left is getting old. It's exactly what the masters want. We are so occupied with fighting each other that we aren't paying attention to what they are doing.
Dr. Matt @ 18:
That's why I've always wondered why Bill-O makes such a fuss about Kos. I can only imagine the collective "wha?" from the angry drunken grandpas.
Rusty Shackleford @ 20:
Bill-O's again and confused viewers just drool and nod in agreement, even when they have no idea what O'Reilly is ranting about.
P.S. *Heads Up* Bill-Os next fake outrage target is Will Ferrell over his comedic skit with the 2 year old. I caught a few second of it on Sirius today.
[Deleted. Blogwhoring]
Correction: Bill-O’s *aging* and confused viewers....
Rusty Shackleford @ 7:
Kos why?
Chris @ 19:
...paying attention to what They are doing...as opposed to Them paying attention to what we are doing?
Maybe you should rephrase your comment because it appears to make no sense.
Here's the differnce as far as I could tell... If this had happened at a neocon event and the soldier had been denouncing however minor the surge or the war in general he'd have been booed by the neocon crowd. I heard not one "boo" from the crowd at this convention. It may seem like no big deal, but the crowd reflected respect...the panel reflected respect. Had it been a neocon convention or even a Republican convention I certainly believe that the results of this soldier's words would have been "audibly" different.
Is there a video of what the guy was saying? All I saw in this one was the reaction to him making his political speech while wearing his uniform.
bsk @ 2:
A sergeant an officer makes not :-)
pop,
Yes. The Pajama Media version has him speaking...
with no links to the right winger's claims, this post is useless.
Dr. Matt @ 21:
Smart move by the falafel man. You know, since Will Ferrell is so unpopular with the public and everything.
thepoetryman @ 26:
Very, very true. I noticed the same thing without acutally processing it. As a matter of fact, I was mildy annoyed by what sounded like a voice that was rambling the entire time, through the Capt and Clark. I eventually assumed it was a convention security guard or perhaps a PA system, not someone in the immediate audience. My point is that respect was so evident that even one voice speaking out of turn seemed rude.
Bonkers,
It certainly stood out, eh?
They're coming after us...because the government still can't control the internets. On the internets, everyone knows when you're lying. All we have to do is use the Google.
So, it's character assassination time for the right wing nut-o-sphere.
We have the TRUTH, and they can't handle the truth. The American People CAN handle the truth, and it's showing in the polls.
I love a good barroom brawl...so...not meaning to sound sexist...but I would say to those "ladies" on the right...."bring it ON"!!!
Wait... so we're expecting those with no respect for the rule of law to represent this opportunity for 'fear and smear' truthfully?
Really?
strawberry @ 13:
I was talking about the Sergeant.
Agree, Agree, Agree...all I meant was that the Sergeant seemed like he had a problem and if so, I feel bad for him. Especially if it is true he was put up to it. Shame on whoever would do such a thing. His reactions were strange, almost childlike. After Capt. Soltz spoke with him privately the PJ interviewer asks what was said....the Sergeant said something like....Capt. Soltz said he was going to get me in a lot of trouble.......that seemed an odd way for a grown man to express himself. He also said the weird thing about not letting anyone say anything bad about the people attending the convention...just seemed like something wasn't quite right with him to me.
MeMyselfAndI @ 28:
Whoops :-(
Most military soldiers do not support the war.
They do not know what they are fighting for.
They are there doing their job.
It's better than the alternative (Jail time)
If reich-wingers boycotted everyone and everything they disagree with, they would be left with Wal-Mart, country music, Waffle House, and highly edited swarchenegger films (to remove every actor except Arnie).
here's how the thugs usually handle these interlopers:
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/116006/index.php
I think Wonkette put it best ...
You don't need to manufacture anything to smear YearlyKos. I'll do it right here. They wasted their time talking when they could have flown to Washington and starting screaming some sense into the wimpy turncoat dems that just gave bush and Gonzales ANOTHER BLANK CHECK. This one to have unlimited spying on Americans with NO OVERSIGHT!
HAHAHAHA
There those dummies go again. repugs don't understand how horribly stupid they look and sound.
Don't they understand the jokes on them and it ain't funny. They do, say, think, and put into print stupid shit all the fucking time.
Oo0l0 I'm so scared of the big chickenhawk behind the mic. A civilian is threatening our finest. Please repugs already, we know you don't like or even tolerate our troops. We get it chickenhawks, you can stop now.
Stupidass in a tie and jacket and our brave in an uniform. Listening to that dicwad. I guess our finest is only good for a photo-op, for show (no video on the battlefield please.)
No wonder repugs hate the internet. Can't have no truth machines (internet.) Nosiree...says the 29%- (100% brain dead) ers.
Somebody near his stinkin ass, please bitch slap that punk.
Thanking you in advance.
"intruder who had no respect for the Kossacks who’d paid to attend,"
Sounds like a GOP-type rally to me.
It should also be noted that there have been military personnel in the past who have deliberately worn their uniform at anti-war protests. One remembers Navy nurse Susan Schnall, in the increasingly relevant and moving documentary Sir! No Sir!, stating that if General William Westmoreland could wear his uniform for pro war activities, then she could certainly wear her uniform at an anti-war rally that took place during the Vietnam War. She was jailed for her activities but she expressed no regrets for what she had done. So certainly the wearing of his military uniform by a pro war soldier can also be worn by those who wish to wear theirs at an anti-war rally, as evidenced in Sir! No Sir!.
Should have just let the man speak. You guys fell into a trap of your own making.
Salmineo @ 17:
That's because chimpy uses the military, it's uniform and its scenery for his political advantage. Not to mention his use of decider and commander in chief all the freakin time.
This is the mess that happens when they began a senseless war. It becomes clouded for the repugs.
Freedom was what the US fought for in the pass.
How can you shut up anybody who is giving their life for freedom. Ya can't. That's why this bullshit confusion happens;
when they started a bullshit war.
redratio1 @ 47:
They did let him speak. The panel was over, still they let him talk for about a minute and a half. Probably more than a lot of other questioners. How long were they supposed to let him stand there and betting his pocket money?
More Jesse doesn't have a job so I'll distract with culture war stories shtick from Malkin
redratio1 @ 47:
What "trap"? The enlisted soldier was allowed to speak and was rightly and promptly disciplined by an officer.
As a former Army JAG Trial Counsel (military prosecutor) I can tell you that the Reservist was totally out of line when he put on his military uniform for the express purpose of attending a political event in order to make a political statement.
You'll notice that neither Stolz or Gen Clark, both of whom are still in the Reserves, was wearing their uniforms.
As a superior officer, Stolz was right cut the SGT off, and right to "dress him down."
Krash, MAJ, USAR (1986-1992)
redratio1 @ 47:
Saw what you wanted to see, eh, red? He did speak. Long and without interruption.
"Trap", he says. :lol:
I think you should post here a lot more. It's encouraging, to say the least.
Crooked Inc.Com
If the tables were turned and the situation was an anti-war soldier at a pro-war/death reich-wing gathering, the GOPigs would have been shouting, booing, and man handling the soldier. This is a fact and has been documented over and over and over.
I feel sorry for this soldier. He looks like he is suffering. He seems brainwashed or medicated or both. He could be suffering a crisis of conscious because deep down he knows what we have done in Iraq is monstrous and wrong and must justify it in his own head as much as possible or suffer some kind of psychological break, if he already hasn't.
Of course the neocons have a higher respect for our troops; by forcing them to buy their own bulletproof vests, by sending them into combat with glorified, nonreinforced SUV's, by extending their stay beyond any reasonable level of physical or mental endurance, and by forcing them into shitholes for care or treatment if they are wounded or injured.
based on the P.J. vid, the audio didn't pick up on Stolzs advisement, to the average mouthbreather it would have been muddled.
the daily Kos link does go over some previous history, and proceeds to inform viewers that the soldier in question approached General Clark the night before, and that Wes had a firm talk about how it was a bad idea to go to a political assembly with a uniform on. The other panel members were aware of the incident, and no doubt had some issues on why this soldier continued to march down this path of political confrontation while wearing the service uniform.
AS PJ media got the good fotos of the soldier, that would suggest it was a staged event for thier benefit.
The soldiers uniform indicated that he served 4 six month tours in a combat zone, and that one of the units he served with was the 101st.
If the film quality was better I could pick up his branch, however as I did not recognize any combat infantry badges, I can safely say he is not infantry.
He did have jump wings, and he was wearing what we call "Bolo badges".
He also seemed kind of old for a Sergeant ((Pay grade e-5)
Perhaps the guy was prior service, but to bring a leadership manual to talk to other guys like a preacher carrying a bible to church, suggests this soldier needs some professional counseling. 4 combat tours suggests he's earned that much.
After treatment, leave the uniform back home, and jump into the fray..
Chris @ 19:
Please refrain from sitting on the fence, you may get splinters.
Tim in SF @ 30:
Tim, I named the sites involved. I will not give them links. You're free to do a google search. Or do you require me to hold your hand through it?
I've seen the video of the incident. The most amazing part is that you can't see Kos pulling the strings of his military-hating puppets.
They must have edited out all the foam coming from the mouths of those freedom hating libruls.
Sgt Slobber was only wearing his Class-A's cuz he wanted to pick-up some wingnut military groupies.
In the men's restroom.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 60:
(my gramdpa used to tell me something very close to that about politicians he didn't like... it was a little more colorful though...hehe)
To Chris@19,
Those on the athoritarian right have masters. We on the left have only truth. And yes, we will continue to fight for the truth. The fight has been going on for decades now and if you've failed to notice, you'e been asleep my friend.
duncanidho @ 59:
On one video you can hear him say he was assigned to a maintenence battalion, which would put him in the rear with the gear.
Here's one point everybody seems to have missed. The Sgt wasn't just violating a silly regulation. He was told by a superior officer not to engage in political activity while in uniform and disobeyed a direct order. He was also disrespectful to an officer. These are court martial offenses.
What Scott Beauchamp has been accused of are Article 15 offenses.
Yeah, it was staged. The sergeant and Pajama Media knew very well what he was doing and hoped that his Trollish behavior (in crashing a progressive convention) and his flagrant violation of military protocol would cause him to be silenced, evicted, and hopefully roughed up and arrested. Well, that is how Mike Stark and any opponent who dares to invade the Reich Wing's meetings are usually treated.
But, this fart in a teacup is all they could come up with because the Reich Wing Troll was treated with relative civility and actually welcomed back the next day in civilian dress. But, he was still a Troll Asshole and deluded fool.
This thread has me all confused.
Tim in SF @ 30:
Try a search with "kos shouted down". Gist of arguments on some of the kool-aid blogs so far:
The hypocrisy or ad hominem tu quoque argument: Kos previously supported soldier who wore a uniform at a protest. Therefore they should be dismissed.
Proof: Article by kos about kos' complaint about marines investigating war protesters; which notes the fatigues has military insignia removed. That is, not a uniform. So even the claim of hypocrisy is false.
Kos isn't political therefore the soldier wasn't breaking regulations.
Proof: Kos is not part of a political party like the DNC. I'm uncertain of what category of logical fallacy that falls into: ignorance, stupidity, or simply willful lying.
Then there area the qualified comments that contain remarks like Knowing fairly little about the army and I’m not familiar with the exact regulations.
They aren't hard to find...
Nicole Belle @ 61:
But then he would have actually had to read the post to see the portion where you explained that already.
Can't guarantee against cookies (I use NoScript myself. And PJM untrusted? You bet.) But here's a picture of Soltz and their "mystery soldier" -> http://pajamasmedia.com/images/yk_featuredimage_1.jpg.
This picture's speaks more than 2 thousand words.
the seargent said that he wanted the kossacks to embarress him in public....they refused
who has more respect for the uniform??
this is what the chimp's policies have done to our military
myiq2xu @ 64:
Maintenance, supply and all them other fobbits coughed up a bunch of junior em for those daily supply runs for the CSM's MFRs on the current uniform of the day. Slobber could have been one of those poor bastids...
don't even dignify this schlock with a response
um. wow. I must have just stepped into a bizarro universe where democrats start acting like republicans and are proud of it.
many in the Vietnam era spoke out IN UNIFORM because that's how important it was -- and is.
today's "liberals"... what an Fing joke.
so now we're enforcing military code? give me a freaking break.
it's fine to cut him off if he rambled--not a problem. fine to cut him off if he's disturbed or intent on creating a disturbance, but he showed up in uniform and was well aware of the consequences. you dumb asses fell into the trap.
Bobby Dunwoody Says:
so now we’re enforcing military code? give me a freaking break.
it’s fine to cut him off if he rambled–not a problem. fine to cut him off if he’s disturbed or intent on creating a disturbance, but he showed up in uniform and was well aware of the consequences. you dumb asses fell into the trap.
-------------------------------------------------
What "dumb asses" are you refering to? C&L isn't Daily Kos. Or, do you troll so may blogs that you get confused?
You seem to conceed that it was a set-up (trap) that was ginned up by Pajama Media to disrupt Yearly Kos. Thanks for the confirmation.
Dr. Matt @ 39:
You forgot Dennys.
Reich wingers still think crepes suzette is a punchline for a dirty joke.
redratio1 @ 47:
Quasi ditto. As mentally unhinged as the guy obviously was, Stoltz's response was defensive and weak. If it's a good question no one's going to give a flying feather or a fig if the guy's illegally in uniform. The proper response to this bird IMHO would have been to point out that the kill rate in Iraq always goes down during the height of summer so you simply can't conclude from his stats that the surge is working and then tell him that, if he has anything else to say, wrap it up in twenty seconds because other people want a shot. After his twenty seconds is up you can then cut him off.
Of couse Stoltz was in the position of of having to think on his feet so he should have everyone's sympathy but that doesn't alter the fact that he kind of blew it.
Just occurred to me, another, more aggressive tact would have been for Stoltz to go after PJ media's lack of outrage at the Bush administrattion's failure to properly arming our troops seeing as their so concerned about the troops being treated properly and everything.
Bobby Dunwoody @ 75:
Again with the "fell into trap" theme. Whose "we" white man?
HELLO!! Rethugs. have nothing else to do but try to cover up for the embarrassments of many indicted criminals, proven liars and public bathroom sexual perverts in their sick, hate mongering and disgusting party.
[...] on: Video of panel’s reaction to Sergeant Aguina here. Video of Sergeant Aguina’s comments and subsequent interview here. Daily Kos full account of [...]
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