The Sell-Out Democrats
By Nicole Belle Sunday Aug 05, 2007 5:46pmCenk Uygur at Huffington Post:
Here we go again. I was going to write a nice, fun piece about Matt Damon on a lovely Sunday afternoon when the Democrats went and ruined everything, as usual. From time to time, I am told that I am too hard on the Democrats. It is not possible to be too hard on these vacillating, spineless, rudderless, clueless clowns.
Alright, there has to be an important distinction here. Most of the Democrats in the House voted the right way on the latest capitulation to the most unpopular president in history. And 28 Democratic Senators voted the right way. The rest are the biggest bunch of weaklings and half-wits I have ever seen. They are the soft underbelly of the Democratic Party.
How many times do I have to write this article? How many times will these same Democrats give in to the worst president in history? So, this time, they caved on FISA. And they caved big time.[..]
The people who are at fault here are not all of the Democrats, or even most of the Democrats. And yes, obviously the Republicans in Congress who give away our rights without a second thought are even more guilty. But it's a given that I wouldn't vote for a Republican if you put a gun to my head at this point.The people who are guilty are the Democrats who pretend to be centrists and vote with this administration over and over again to enable their worst abuses. They not only give away our rights without any concern, but they also give up the political middle. By pretending that compromise with this administration is reasonable, they move the center to the extreme right of the political spectrum. This not only does damage to the country, but does untold damage to their own party.[..]
It's time to start wholesale primary fights against all of the capitulating Democrats. It's obvious all they care about is protecting their own power. They think the only challenge to that power will come from the right side of the spectrum. It's time to make them reconsider their assumptions. Read the whole article...
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We love you Cenk!
He's right on. The Democratic leadership sucks.
This is from Uygur's update:
I'd just take two issues with this. First, the "centrist" dems are either to the right of Ashcroft or lack the backbone that Ashcroft had when he had acute pancreatitis and was on pain-killers (what's the Democrats' excuse?) Second, the leadership should have never crafted this bill. Only the most pathetic leadership can paint their own members into a perceived corner.
where can you find the list of democrats who voted for this bill?
Friday is FISA day. Call your elected official and tell them what you think of the FISA bill. Yes, they're on recess. Call their home office. Tell them you're angry.
The Democratic tent is large, but never big enough for those who kneel before King George.
Catapult the Capitulators!
I want to know who these Spineless 16 are? We need to let them know that it's time for them to update their resumes.
I got the feeling that after this last election the pukicans took one step back from the trough and the dems took one step forward.
Cenk tells the truth!
What I don't understand is how Senators get to legalize Bush's program that has already been ruled unconstitutional by a court. What legitimacy do they possess for that? It's _our_ constitutional rights and not their's to give away. They should be prosecuting these bastards, not helping them set up a dictatorship.
I'm too disappointed in Klobusher not to write her on this one I think. I believe I can refrain from swearing but I'm mad as hell. I've worked in the Hennepin County Government Center and Klobusher was a familiar stranger to me that I believed was up to the job. Should I or should not tell a Senator and former prosecutor that I think it is treasonous to the constitution and the rule of law to award the executive unconstitutional powers?
One of my senators is traitoress Dianne Feinstein. Sadly she's not up for re-election anytime soon,but I did call her office to let them know how angry I was, and that I AM NOT DONATING A SINGLE CENT to any democrats asking for support until they grow and spine and stand up to Bush. I suggest everyone else do the same. That will get attention more than being "polite". It is way past that now. If you love what the United States used to be, if you cherish liberty, you better start getting angry and channeling it into action. It's 1936 Berlin folks. When we have our "Reichstag Fire", martial law will be declared and it will be game over.
See y'all in Gitmo.
Anylegislation that is overwhelmingly supported by Republicans has to be dirty. Any Democrat that supports it is dirty too. There's no amount of campaign cash that can wash off that sort of filth. Good thing I'm not sending this overseas. Although, is there anyone who doesn't believe that they are indiscriminatley spying on us here?We don't have Dems and Repubs anymore...it's the Corporation. And the Corporation gets the votes it wants.
Here's the thing... Clinton and Obama also failed us on this vote. While it takes 40 Democrats 'technically' to stop a cloture vote in the senate, let's see how many Democrats will vote against a Clinton or Obama LED filibuster. It's one thing to vote for cloture, and its quite another to vote for cloture against the wishes of an outspoken and active presidential front runner from your party.
Sen. Feinstein (CA) voted for it. After the shock wore off, here's what I realized:
Feinstein is just as corrupt as the rest of them. Voting with the (p)Resident on occasion keeps the partisan hacks at the DoJ off her back and out of her dirty laundry. How else do you explain any Democrat voting for this? Sure, a few states or districts might be tight, but where is Bush in the polls? Which party was swept into power last year in numbers even bigger than the "Republican Revolution" of 1994?
This is all about power and corruption-- which in politics are the same thing. There is a fine line between cynicism and reality, but I think this is the reality of the situation.
If you don't agree, check this out:
http://thehill.com/david-keene/feinsteins-cardinal-shenanigans-2007-04-3...
As long as the Supreme Court continues to equate free speech with money, we will have this problem. That is the root of all evil inAmerican politics.
Countdown ...... to January 20, 2009.
This is an amazing presidency - it can even get the majority opposition party to roll over and capitulate despite the president's 30% approval ratings.
Ah yessssssss....the few bad apples argument....more bullshit.
More wonderful Dem-bashing.
"The rest are the biggest bunch of weaklings and half-wits I have ever seen. They are the soft underbelly of the Democratic Party."
Calling Blue Dogs 'half-wits' is quite a misconception. As for the Dem Senators -- these problems are very well known, and to call them 'the soft underbelly' is just to state the obvious, with faint blame for the party, as if the party (and not the states) elected them.
There is one other issue in this, namely that the Speaker-backed House bill (sponsors: Reyes, Conyers, Flake (R), Schiff), which would have been better, was voted down by some of our heroes:
Improving Foreign Intelligence Surveillance to Defend the Nation and the Constitution Act of 2007 --Failed 218-207 (by 10 votes)
Dems voting Nay: Blumenauer, Capuano, Filner, Holt, Inslee, Kucinich, McDermott, McGovern, Michaud, Olver, Stark, Waters, Welch (VT), Woolsey
Not voting: Clark, Waxman
This interim bill would have mandated:
"Foreign-to-Foreign Communications Passing Through the United States. The bill clarifies that no court order is required for foreign-to-foreign communications that pass through the United States.
Surveillance of Individuals in the United States. The bill reiterates that individual warrants, based on probable cause, are required when surveillance is directed at individuals in the United States.
• Submitting Procedures for International Surveillance to FISA Court for Approval.
• Initial 15-Day Emergency Period.
• Audits by Justice Department’s Inspector General.
• Sunsetting in 120 Days."
http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0080
By blocking this better interim bill, these generally fine representatives -- NOT the soft underbelly of anything -- HELPED create the debacle that ensued, and for six months the authorization will be LARGER than what would have passed had Reyes' interim bill gone through.
Fuck it. I'm switching to Socialist.
I may be throwing the baby out with the bath water but I am through with the Democratic party. As we have seen for the past six years, Republicans, left un-checked, will lead to the eventual destruction of this country. Last November gave me hope that we could turn things around but the Dem's are lining up to drink the Kool-Aid. Not one more dime and no more "lesser of two evils" votes - I've had enough.
Here's the vote tally....
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00309
In the same vein, Greenwald nails it:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/08/06/rove/index.html
Chuck @ 16:
Prove it's BS then.
Give the Democrats a break. I watch CSPAN and every bill they try to pass needs a vote of 60 people. They don't have sixty people.
As far as FISA goes, if they voted agains't it and we had a terrorist attack everyone would blame the Democrats. AND I am sure we will have a terrorist attack at some point, I am just not sure when the administration is planning it.
Day in and day out the President and all his cronies talk to us about the terrorists, to try and keep us nervous. If we are so threatened by outsiders, how come the President didn't do anything about our open border? Every time they open their mouth to try and scare us I think about the border that they have done nothing about since 9/11. Well, I take that back. They have managed to put a few of our BORDER PATROL in jail. God bless America!
guido santa @ 14:
As the rest of WHOM? In case you weren't aware, Senator Feinstein's husband is profiting off the illegal Iraq invasion, and that's no surprise -- she has been a national embarassment for a very long time, and as mayor of San Francisco was roundly hated for her patrician haughtiness, now unchanged.
Here's her 2006 election result:
2006 California United States Senatorial Election
Dianne Feinstein (D) (inc.) 59.2%
Dick Mountjoy (R) 37.4%
Don Grundmann (American Independent) 1.8%
Todd Chretien (Green) 1.7%
Michael Metti (Lib.) 1.6%
Marsha Feinland (Peace and Freedom) 1.3%
(wikipedia)
So, clearly, she has nearly nothing to fear from the electorate. Don't lump her in with the others. She is a well-known problem, but the Dems in the Senate aren't electing her -- CALIFORNIANS are.
And even so, she is 1000X better than Dick Mountjoy (R), don't kid yourself.
I'm putting up a cork board with all the names of those who have sold us out....I feel very let down by them.....I just want to look and remember what they did and come election time....I'll start remind people who did what.
Bash the hell out of those spineless Dems who voted yes when all they had to do is follow their leadership and just vote no.
How hard is it to follow Reid and Pelosi and just vote no?
If they were worried about their election, they can blame their leadership but nooooooo, they know better than the leadership and cave like cowards.
Don't blame this on the leadership, those Dems chose to be with the gop.
Foreign wire tapping....
Because the rule of law has been altered allowing foreign wire tapping was it even considered that this actually gives foreign governments even more leverage to wire tape US citizens here under their defined legal umbrella of alleged "terrorist" activity....
Now what exactly would be the legal standard for a foreign government to look at your email, your phone calls, etc?....
How in the world would we as a nation be able to circumvent this kind of intrusion if we are taking liberties with citizens of other nations?...
I cannot believe that anyone with a fingernail full bit of common sense would think this was an intelligent strategy to circumvent "terrorist activity"....
I've been wondering the same thing as smchris: "how [do] senators get to legalize Bush’s program that has already been ruled unconstitutional by a court."
I suppose it's because there's only one branch of government now, and they can do anything they damned well please.
Read it and weep. Here's the senate
roll call on S.1927 and the house. They don't make it easy to find.
Protect America my ass.
Here is Mountjoy, from wikipedia:
This IS a lesser of two evils issue, jwazzz (maybe not by much, in this case, granted). Hiding your head about that won't change things.
And now let's all give a warm welcome to ... The Constitution of the United States of America!
Hello citizens. The Constitution here. I have a message for you.
You have been betrayed, and I am about to die.
Every loyal American citizen in this country must immediately register as an Independent voter, and abandon the Republican and Democratic parties who abandoned me, or I can protect you no longer, and my life will end.
The only legal way to change the rule of law I embrace is by amendment, and a proposed Amendment must pass with two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and U.S. Senate, or a Constitutional Convention must be called by two-thirds of the state legislatures. If the amendment passes both the House and the Senate with two-thirds majority, then three-fourths of the states (38) must ratify it.
And yet here is the latest of my most cherished laws to be illegally declared null and void.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Save me fellow Americans. I protected you for over 225 years, and all I ask now is that you not let me die, without even a whimper, so that my protection may continue.
ST
Georgette Orwell @ 28:
This is an INTERIM bill, six months of stopgap.
The Speaker (via Reyes) tried to pass a better interim bill -- it was shot down by progressives like Kucinich, Woolsey, and Waters (not that they didn't have their reasons).
Here is an excerpt from Pelosi's letter to Conyers and Reyes (emphasis added):
If you can find something to hate in that, there is nothing I can say to reverse your misplaced anger. House Dems tried to pass a better interim bill, and the progressive wing shot it down. So we got what we got, and those who think we should have spent August in a ripsaw over a worse six month interim bill ignore the political facts.
Georgette Orwell @ 28:
And there is no Constitution. "It's just a damned piece of paper." -- Bush.
Paul in LA: I think you are Rove or cheney in DC.
I re-registered today as a "declines to state", leaving the Democratic Party to itself. Of course, there are many good Democrats in both the House and the Senate, and I will continue to support the work of these individuals. I cannot, however, honestly support a party that was brought back into power by "we the people", that is not abiding by the will of the people.
If there is a logical strategy behind the appeasement of the cheney/bush administration by Democrats on so many issues, I wish someone would let me and many others know.
It is so blatantly obvious, the Democrats want to win so bad, that they can't think straight. Have bought into the Republican speel that if the Democrats do anything right, the American people will hate them for doing good. Their brains have been destroyed from believing the Republicans.
RMHK @ 23:
If I saw any evidence that the so-called "good guys" on this one put up any sort of fight to protect our constitution, in the face of opposition from a President with Nixonian approval ratings, I might, indeed, give them this "break"of which you speak.
They did not fight, they did not filibuster, they did not force Bush to veto the bill they proposed. Instead, as before, they put up token resistance and then yielded, predictably.
Well thank goodness that now, when the attack does come, that they won't blame the democrats. 'Cause that definitely won't happen.`No way.
The Dems in congress who voted for the bill don't deserve to call themselves Democrats. P***ycrats is a more fitting title for those cowards.
From WaPo:
Oh, yeah, right, they're going to speak English, they're going to speak in non-code. What f*cking simpletons are running this show?
Paul in LA @ 32:
Nice analysis. They tried once, didn't get the votes, and then yeah, obviously their only alternative was to give George Bush everything he fucking wanted. After all, it's only the Fourth Amendment.
Come on, man. At least pretend to try and come up with a coherent argument. It makes us all feel better.
getalife @ 26:
I'm not happy with the vote any more than you, but I am glad to see that these guys don't just vote with their leaders.
Paul (24),
Ah, yeah, I think we are making (almost) the same point here. I was indicating that in order to get elected to the Senate, one has to be, to some extent and in some way, corrupt.
And, yes, Feinstein does not have a whole lot to fear from the elctorate (at least not yet).
Look up your own senators and representatives and tell them you will hold them accountable for this. If they all voted right, look for the razor thin winners in the last election. I reminded Webb that he depended on more than just Virginians to get into the office he has.
Paul in LA @ 30:
____________________________________________
Mountjoy is no different than most of Red State America, or my extended family for that matter.
I voted for Feinstein, I always have. On this issue she just figured that Democrats don't need to be blamed for the next attack, so she capitulated to the airhead president.
Does anybody have of list of who voted what in the House?
Makes me wonder what Bush has on these guys. It would be paranoid speculation, except we know he has been taping their phones.
Fozetti @ 34:
Nice slander. FOR SURE the Rovians want to spend all this time defending Nancy Pelosi.
Alan @ 46:
NONE of the leaders voted for this bill. 5/6 of the dem House caucus voted NAY. Twenty-eight Dem Senators voted nay.
Yep, he's got something on them, all right. Paranoia, the natural result of Dem-bashing spin.
MeII @ 22:
The documentary Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room dissects the "few bad apples" myth very effectively. check it out Mell and get back to me...
Ron @ 45:
OK, Rasputin, here we are again.
TWENTY-EIGHT of 41 Yea votes were Blue Dogs:
Barrow, Bean, Boren, Boswell, Boyd (FL), Carney, Chandler, Cooper, Costa, Cramer, Davis (Lincoln), Donnelly, Ellsworth, Gordon, Herseth Sandlin, Hill, Lampson, Marshall, Matheson, McIntyre, Melancon, Peterson (MN), Pomeroy, Ross, Salazar, Shuler, Space, Taylor, Wilson (OH)
The remaining shame goes to these 12:
Altmire, Cuellar, Davis (AL), Edwards, Etheridge, Higgins, Lipinski, Mitchell, Rodriguez, Snyder, Tanner, Walz (MN)
(Oops, sorry Ron, didn't mean to leave that in to Rasputin).
Wait, why do the Democrats insist on surrendering to Bush? Isn't public opinion and political power firmly in their hands? Isn't the country all but set up to hand them the Executive Branch in 2008? Did they not realize how much better it would be to vote 'nay' on this issue, for both moral and political reasons?
Arroyo @ 44:
I think she's more complicit than that, but your comment is a good example of how good-hearted people in California have been shooting ourselves in the foot because we haven't yet learned how to organize a better candidate.
But hey! Don't worry -- the THIRD PARTIES are coming to our rescue:
Don Grundmann (American Independent) 1.8%
Todd Chretien (Green) 1.7%
Michael Metti (Lib.) 1.6%
Marsha Feinland (Peace and Freedom) 1.3
Tony Snow @ 52:
Five/Sixths of the House Dems did just that. ALL of the leadership (in both Houses) did just that. The Speaker tried to get a better interim bill passed (see #17 above), and it was shot down by well-meaning PROGRESSIVES.
It's a six month sunset bill. It will NOT be renewed, and the real fight is yet to come.
guido santa @ 42:
Well, that is overstated. For instance, Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, who voted for the habeus corpus -stripping bill (because, he says, he thought it would allow at least some hope of process for those detainees/kidnap victims), is not 'corrupt' because he is in the Senate. He worked for Ohio in the US House for DECADES to earn the Senate seat, and we all owe him some gratitude for his fight against CAFTA (lost by one vote, when the R kept the vote open for three hours after midnight), his opposition of NAFTA, his hard work expunging serious world illness, his work defending the Great Lakes, etc. He has an excellent record, and NO corruption scandals.
Similarly, no one can claim that Senator Boxer is corrupt. There are many other examples.
It doesn't help that it is transparently obvious what the GOP strategy going into '08 is and that the idiot Dems are rolling over and falling right into their trap. The fear card is getting thrown back into the ring, and the Dems, who were all too willing to embrace that rhetoric until Lamont made it acceptable to oppose the war back in the '06 elections (and we saw how the DLC handled that), are getting fisted again. Bush and crew know nobody REALLY believes that we haven't suffered a major attack since 9/11 due to anything they have done, so they also know that everyone is increasingly on pins and needles over the growing likelihood that we will EVENTUALLY be attacked again. They also know that people are naturally inclined to believe that big events (like elections) are like catnip to "evil doers," a meme they pushed in '04 and again in '06. Now they are pushing it again, building momentum for '08. What's more, they know that the DLC core of the Dems is as spineless and corporatist as anyone and will shift which ever way they see the wind blow, so they are building the (false) case that 1.)See, we told you the surge would work...so don't let the Dems ruin it!, and 2.)Well, we've bee working hard to keep you safe, but those Dems are always trying to cut the legs out from under us, so an attack may happen at any time...Vote our way or the next hypothetical-imaginary-but-probably-will-happen-someday-regardless attack will be YOUR fault! The Dems, meanwhile, don't filibuster, don't work the media in anyway to get their message out (or should I say OUR message, since it doesn't really seem to be their's), don't leverage their majority status or pressure junior congressmen to get with the program. What do you expect from the party that continues to let Lieberman kick them in the ass. Yes, nicely played Harry and Nancy. I GUARANTEE that the next 6 months will see an explosion of activity from this administration looking into the personal business of anyone and everyone that might cause them trouble between now and the '08 elections, all under the pretext of gathering "intelligence." Look out investigative reporters, you KNOW they are gunning for you especially.
I'm sure the DLC thinks they are being clever here, by letting the GOP continue their destructive ways while rolling over just enough to give Bush what he wants while maintaining a credible "but we tried" defense for the base. Unfortunately, as the polls show, they are imbeciles. Some major Dem heads need to roll in '08. It's time to stop thinking in terms of majorities and to start thinking in terms of accountability, no matter the party affiliation.
And kudos to Jim Webb, who seems to have played the anti-Iraq card well enough to get elected but who has no problem gutting the Constitution. You, sir, are a true patriot.
Here is the infamous list of democrats who obviously don't care about doing the right thing:
http://votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=14626
Yea
Nay
Not Voting, Excused, Absent, or Present
Pair Yea
Pair Nay
AR Jr Sen. Mark Pryor Democrat Y
AR Sr Sen. Blanche Lincoln Democrat Y
CA Jr Sen. Barbara Boxer Democrat NV
CA Sr Sen. Dianne Feinstein Democrat Y
CO Jr Sen. Ken Salazar Democrat Y
DE Jr Sen. Thomas Carper Democrat Y
HI Sr Sen. Daniel Inouye Democrat Y
IA Jr Sen. Thomas Harkin Democrat NV
IN Jr Sen. Evan Bayh Democrat Y
LA Sr Sen. Mary Landrieu Democrat Y
MA Jr Sen. John Kerry Democrat NV
MD Sr Sen. Barbara Mikulski Democrat Y
MN Jr Sen. Amy Klobuchar Democrat/Farmer/Labor Y
MO Jr Sen. Claire McCaskill Democrat Y
ND Jr Sen. Byron Dorgan Democrat-NPL NV
ND Sr Sen. Kent Conrad Democrat Y
NE Jr Sen. E. Benjamin Nelson Democrat Y
PA Jr Sen. Robert Casey Jr. Democrat Y
SD Sr Sen. Tim Johnson Democrat NV
VA Jr Sen. James Webb Jr. Democrat Y
WA Sr Sen. Patty Murray Democrat NV
Paul in LA @ 53:
_______________________________________________________________
Paul -
I'd vote for Marcy Winograd (she ran against Jane Harman last year) anytime.
She was at Berkeley when I was there - very smart and very good-looking.
The Democrats really put the "lesser" in "lesser of two evils."
You've lost me, Dems. That's it. I'm voting Green or independent from here on out. And I'm done listening to lectures about a "vote for Nader is a vote for Bush."
A vote for Gore was a vote for Lieberman.
I knew long ago I'd never vote for any Republican, ever. I'm getting there with the Democrats.
For the record, if I made any mistakes, please feel free to correct them.
nyguy @ 57:
_________________________________________________
LOL! What's the deal with Tom "Mister Progressive" Harkin?
56 Not-the-idiot Bill Says:
Some major Dem heads need to roll in ‘08. It’s time to stop thinking in terms of majorities and to start thinking in terms of accountability, no matter the party affiliation.
I agree with your post. Too bad most Democratic supporters are too afraid of their own shadows to do the right thing.
Paul in LA...
in the past I have thought you too strident in your defense of the Dem leadership... but of late?... given the whingeing that some so-called progressives are doing?... you gotta ask them to declare their real intentions...
Cenk is a funny guy sometimes but ofttimes I feel he gets a bit of a chubby from being able to blast away at the Dems... so much in fact that I wonder sometimes what his real motivation is... looking to woo over a bit of the Repub audience, Cenk?...
and some of the whining on these comment threads... gawdammit... first of all - ALL THE REPUBS HAVE VOTED LOCK-STEP WITH BUSH ALL ALONG THE GARDEN PATH... second - you want to screech like howler monkeys about the Dems abandoning the faith?... paint all the Dems with the same broad brush?... infantile mewling and puking... these displays of naivete are just dessert for the righties who skulk around these boards... and spineless twerps are just serving up a smogasbord of self-loathing and defeatism... you want your representatives to be better?... you are your senator's or rep's boss... lead by example...
RMHK @ 23:
I would take that risk if were the dems. It's a very low risk, and to stand up to the principles of the law is far, far more important than giving the President unlimited ability to break it, especially with the flimsy excuses and reprehensible behavior that has marked his leadership.
I can't believe that Patty Murray and Barbara Boxer didn't bother to vote. Is that what NV means?
I'm so disgusted with our government from the spineless democrats to the corrupt greedy hypocritical republicans. I could just scream. Instead I guess I'll have to write a few letters.
These people we elect are supposed to represent OUR views. They apparently thought that a majority of Americans don't give a rip about the Constitution anymore, and sadly ..... they are probably right.
Question: where the hell are Reid and Pelosi? Aren't they supposed to keep the troops in line? This was a very big bill. It represents a completely demoralizing embrace of defeat by the Democratic Party. Reid failed. Pelosi failed. The Party failed. And it is we, the people, whom they failed. I am ashamed of the Democratic Party. Though it sports some truly classy, excellent politicians, it has crap for leadership.
(hat tip to JHz above, for link)
Measure Number: S. 1927
Vote Date: August 3, 2007
Measure Title: A bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to provide additional procedures for authorizing certain acquisitions of foreign intelligence information and for other purposes.
DEMS VOTING NAY (27):
Akaka (D-HI), Baucus (D-MT), Biden (D-DE), Bingaman (D-NM), Brown (D-OH), Byrd (D-WV), Cantwell (D-WA), Cardin (D-MD), Clinton (D-NY), Dodd (D-CT), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Kennedy (D-MA), Kohl (D-WI), Lautenberg (D-NJ), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Menendez (D-NJ), Obama (D-IL), Reed (D-RI), Reid (D-NV), Rockefeller (D-WV), Schumer (D-NY), Stabenow (D-MI), Tester (D-MT), Whitehouse (D-RI), Wyden (D-OR)
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
DEMS NOT VOTING (6):
Boxer (D-CA), Dorgan (D-ND), Harkin (D-IA), Johnson (D-SD), Kerry (D-MA), Murray (D-WA)
REPUBLICANS NOT VOTING (6):
Alexander (R-TN), Bunning (R-KY), Gregg (R-NH), Lott (R-MS), Lugar (R-IN), McCain (R-AZ)
DEMS VOTING YEA (17):
Bayh (D-IN), Carper (D-DE), Casey (D-PA), Conrad (D-ND), Feinstein (D-CA), Inouye (D-HI), Klobuchar (D-MN), Landrieu (D-LA), Lieberman (ID-CT), Lincoln (D-AR), McCaskill (D-MO), Mikulski (D-MD), Nelson (D-FL), Nelson (D-NE), Pryor (D-AR), Salazar (D-CO), Webb (D-VA)
REPUBLICANS VOTING YEA (43):
Allard (R-CO), Barrasso (R-WY), Bennett (R-UT), Bond (R-MO), Brownback (R-KS), Burr (R-NC), Chambliss (R-GA), Coburn (R-OK), Cochran (R-MS), Coleman (R-MN), Collins (R-ME), Corker (R-TN), Cornyn (R-TX), Craig (R-ID), Crapo (R-ID), DeMint (R-SC), Dole (R-NC), Domenici (R-NM), Ensign (R-NV), Enzi (R-WY), Graham (R-SC), Grassley (R-IA), Hagel (R-NE), Hatch (R-UT), Hutchison (R-TX), Inhofe (R-OK), Isakson (R-GA), Kyl (R-AZ), Martinez (R-FL), McConnell (R-KY), Murkowski (R-AK), Roberts (R-KS), Sessions (R-AL), Shelby (R-AL), Smith (R-OR), Snowe (R-ME), Specter (R-PA), Stevens (R-AK), Sununu (R-NH), Thune (R-SD), Vitter (R-LA), Voinovich (R-OH), Warner (R-VA)
votingvet @ 67:
Please refer to #17, above.
Helloworld @ 64:
You are speculating. Please read #17 above. The Speaker, via Reyes & Conyers, tried to pass a better interim bill, but some of the Progressives scrubbed it.
Paul in LA @ 55:
Senator Boxer, one of my own Senators, didn't even have the backbone to stand up and vote at all, either way.
But there are indeed a few Americans left in the Republican Party, and many in the Democratic Party, and each and every one of them must immediately abandon those failed institutions and register as an Independent voter.
There is no American principle or ideal left to salvage in the either party, and at this time the American people are better served by no party at all. The leadership, and most powerful institutions, in Congress have been corrupted beyond repair. Abandoning both parties will disorient and weaken them enough so that Independent candidates can be elected to restore our Constitution.
To continue to support either party is merely to continue sedating oneself, to death.
I understand that the Democratic Party once stood for good, but for whatever reason (and we do not have the time to investigate why now), they have become the evil they once fought. Let no one fool themselves, this betrayal of our Constitution is not temporary, will not be rescinded, and will in fact only be amplified and expanded day after day, month after month, until our beloved Constitution is a mere forbidden memory.
Fellow Americans, no one is coming to save us. We must save ourselves.
ST
"When everything is secret, everything is legal."
SearingTruth
"We need not debate the existence of our three branches of government, only the punishment for those who would destroy them."
SearingTruth
"It is an old tale. Catastrophe assaults the senses of a free nation. Fear, a tyrant’s only ally, is seized. Democracy, a despot’s greatest foe, is assaulted. The people, liberties only defense, are subdued. All in accomplice of those sworn, upon death, to protect them."
SearingTruth
"I at once understood everything and nothing at all. A victory, accompanied by defeat. A war, with no prisoners. A threat, with no substance. A fear, with no end. A sorrow, with no comfort. And a land, with no freedom."
SearingTruth
The DNC and GOP won'[t support their oath. Why whould we listen to them. Heads up and get ready to support the Grand Jury in their investigation of Member of Congress oath of office violations. They won't do their job. They can be prosecuted.
Dan @ 63:
You should have heard me through my bullhorn, all these years. Stridency I do WELL.
But we are making steady progress, while the whining disaffiliated throw their tomatoes. I am very proud of Speaker Pelosi, and, well, commiserate with Leader Reid. A lot of people are unable to understand that in a COUP the task of strengthening the Congress is of superior importance than falling on our swords. The disaffiliated don't understand that for sure. They want a big showy battle, followed by thirty years of this bullsht, after the restrenghtened R crash the Constitutional gov't entirely.
No, instead, the Congress is MUCH stronger than it was in January, and we just put the knife into electronic votefraud, and we have everyone from Bush down to Gonzales under investigation with evidence already adduced (in ALL cases) which will lead to prosecutions if we can get special prosecutors named. Big progress, with this hat trick from the R to send the spinsters into overdrive, covering up SecState Bowen (D)'s HUGE bombshell decert/recert of Friday midnight, and helping drive down Congressional approval polls, in service to the Republicans (whose desire for dictators is similar to leftist's own distrust of democracy).
Make no mistake about it.....this event was orchestrated.....
Recent chattering about upcoming terrorist threats
Boehner's "accidential" classified leak about the FISA court declaring
Bushco's wire tapping illegal
Enhanced fear among the American people (because of MSM's
complicity in Bushco's agenda)
The timing is too well done to assume it's accidental.......
And the Dems caved again - fear of political reprisal......
What a shame/sham....
The dems will get a spine, but let's hope it's not too late.
SearingTruth @ 71:
HILARIOUS. The laugh of the day.
Senator Boxer's reasons for not voting should be asked of her. Probably she did the vote count, and realized that the other side had 60. She surely has nothing to worry about at the polls.
The system will never change as long as people continue to allow themselves to be brainwashed into thinking they HAVE to vote for whomever has the most ads on TV. And the system will never change as long as people refuse to do their research on who has voted for what.
A vote is never wasted if you vote for who you really think is the best person for the position, even if he/she is a Green, Libertarian, independent, etc. You're not betting on a football game, you're participating in Democracy. The corporate parties are counting on you to be "pragmatic". What if every progressive stopped giving their money to Democratic candidates and gave it to Green candidates who were running in local and state races? It would probably double the number of Greens who get elected nationwide. Success breeds success so this would lead to more people giving to Green candidates and so on. AND, if you look at what happens when Greens are elected: cities and towns do not burn to the ground and there is not chaos in the streets. The shell of what's left of the Democratic Party would have to either get off their asses or implode.
Fedup but hopeful @ 74:
Read #17. Speaker Pelosi tried to pass a better interim bill, and it would have passed, except some of the progressives blocked it.
Paul in LA @ 77:
Keep up the postive fight Paul in LA. I agree that there are some progressives in there trying to make a difference, but allow me a day of discouragement.
Adam Burns should be recognized for his efforts. He, like many Americans, is concernd and taking notice of the sell-out Democrats. Adam is considering his options. If you would like to support Adam in his efforts to challenge these sell-out Democrats, you know what to do: Don't be a sell-out. Thanks Adam.
Paul in LA @ 73:
Fellow patriot, I do not understand your logic. Are you saying that those who stand up for the Constitution are "the whining disaffiliated" throwing tomatoes? And how on earth could you believe that Congress supporting the Constitution would be "falling on their swords"? And even more incredibly, do you honestly think that the ever falling approval ratings of Congress make them stronger, instead of much, much weaker? And finally, the Democrats just gave Alberto Gonzales, one of the greatest enemies of freedom our country has ever known, even more power. How could they also be legitimately investigating him?
Perhaps you do not understand how clearcut and unambiguous our situation is, so let me explain it as clearly as I can.
Here is the Forth Amendment to the Constitution:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Now, the rights in the Constitution cannot simply be "voted" out of existence, that is called treason. The only way to legally change the Constitution is to amend it, and the procedure is as follows:
A proposed Amendment must pass with two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and U.S. Senate, or a Constitutional Convention must be called by two-thirds of the state legislatures. If the amendment passes both the House and the Senate with two-thirds majority, then three-fourths of the states (38) must ratify it.
So, as you can see, by illegally "voting" to extinguish a fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution, rather than by legally amending it, both the Republican and Democratic parties have committed treason against The United States of America.
As I said, their is no ambiguity here, just a historic betrayal of America, and everything it has ever stood for. Our only option is to abandon those who have abandoned our Constitution, register as Independent voters, and restore it ourselves.
ST
"Tyranny is always preceded by the loss of just a 'little' liberty."
SearingTruth
"It is the entire circumstance that concerns me, not the small window which peers in upon it."
SearingTruth
"I love my fuhrer. If he wants to break the law, that’s OK. He is the law."
1942, Warsaw Ghetto, Unknown German Citizen, Observing a decomposing mass
The Democrat and Republican political parties are different fangs of the same snake. What American needs is another revolution.
Cenk said it! The US had this unique thing called probable cause which we once cherished, and now its pretty much invalid. I don't give a shit if its going to sunset in six months.
We say how stupid this administration is, but I think they did a pretty good job beating many of these democratics into a political equivalent of battered wife syndrome.
StirFry@82
I ment "democrats" not "democratics" . Fat fingers...carny hands. .. I hate them.
This is your brain on politics (video two viciously frying eggs on high heat).
Going to get real about what doesn't work, start over at a meeting with a few friends at a kitchen table, a kerosene lamp, some wine, and a coupla legal pads.
This is too nuts.
Creeps always seem to infultrate! I want that F*cking Lantos out! Ca. Boy is he a right wing! also remember the a*shole lieberman?????????
Paul in LA @ 75:
Fellow patriot, once again I do not understand your logic.
Isn't the most fundamental duty of each Senator and Representative to uphold our Constitution, and certainly to restore it when subverted?
With the exception of extreme illness, there is no viable excuse for not voting against the attempted extinguishment of our fundamental rights, whether you think you're going to "win" or not. In fact, fighting for freedom against all odds is one of the defining attributes of a patriot.
And my goodness gracious, both Boxer and Feinstein have much to worry about in the polls. They just lost the support of an uncounted number of Independents such as myself, and also Democrats, who have voted for them for years. Further, there are now many urging all loyal Americans to abandon both the failed Republican and Democratic parties, and register as Independent voters.
I'm surprised that you think we would take treason so lightly.
ST
"History does not record a government of the people assured in secret."
SearingTruth
"Twice we have fallen; towers by enemies without, and freedom by enemies within."
SearingTruth
"Never forsake humanity for inhumanity, despite all disguise."
SearingTruth
"There is great danger in calling a thing evil, equaled only by the ignorance of it. Therefore let our judgments withstand the passions of our time, and endear the admiration of our future."
SearingTruth
I saw this and thought: What a great contrast for C&L readers: Congress won't protect Americans from surveillance; but whales are protected from sonar. That, is, amazing. Human rights after whale rights; some electronic activity is unsafe for Whales; but the rest of Americans, the DNC says we have to put up with it. If we were Whales, would Congress have passed the FISA Act?
Searing Truth #80:
"It is the entire circumstance that concerns me, not the small window which peers in upon it.”
SearingTruth
Great statement - is it yours? It sums up how I feel about our government today. Circumstances have been been put into place for at least six years (who knows how much longer - some say over twenty years). We seem to be involved in a setup that is very difficult to undo. Gradually, very gradually, our rights have been taken away (actually, not so gradually - but our knowledge of them has been gradual) - what is the long term plan - a global empire?
SearingTruth@71 you said,
"There is no American principle or ideal left to salvage in the either party, and at this time the American people are better served by no party at all. The leadership, and most powerful institutions, in Congress have been corrupted beyond repair. Abandoning both parties will disorient and weaken them enough so that Independent candidates can be elected to restore our Constitution"
Please say more about this. I've been trying to keep an open mind and look at the way things really are.This old system is so twisted, so perverted, such mad gymnastics trying to figure it out and work with it. It DOES need purging. The dems are not working together as they should in this hopeless atmosphere. It's as though they need our help to stop them altogether.
I think we need a national response every time they hurt our constitution. A big one that brings business as usual to a halt. We are the ones to put them all on permanent probation until we truly hand power back to the states. The way it is now is like a crazyman wearing his pajamas backwards at the mall.
I am a democrat and have been since the day I cast my first vote in every election without fail. We have done our part and it is time we hold them to theirs by whatever means necessary. ALL OF THEM dems and repugs. Stop the money, commerce, cooperation.
Kindly share more of your thoughts.
SearingTruth, please don't tell me Nader. I will find a rope with a noose in it, throw it over a beam in the ceiling with a chair under it.
Say you aren't hiding a brand name"behind your back.
Planet_Of_The_Whales @ 87:
Well,for one thing we don't bleed from the ears or beach ourselves every time congress fucks us over. HEY! That's a fantastic idea!
(resentment of whales? how can this be?)
Fedup but hopeful @ 88:
Thank you fellow patriot. Yes, I am the author of everything that says "SearingTruth" under it. My website also has a some other quotes, and a speech named "A Future of the Brave" that I wrote a few years ago, that you might be interested in. I'm working on opening multiple websites now, so my current site is for historical and reference purposes only.
And you are indeed correct, the bloodless coup that we are experiencing today has been planned for almost thirty years, and is based upon a subversive political theory known as the "Unitary Executive". You may be quite surprised to learn that non other than Supreme Court Justices Roberts (the Chief Justice) and Alito are amongst its most fervent supporters.
In fact, you can view a memo written by a young and treasonous Alito on February 5, 1986 for then President Reagan urging that he use signing statements to subvert the Constitution, even going into detail on how to quiet a disturbed Congress. It's quite shocking. You can view it at:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:BE5iZZr20dUJ:www.archives.gov/news/samuel-alito/accession-060-89-269/Acc060-89-269-box6-SG-LSWG-AlitotoLSWG-Feb1986.pdf+alito+%22signing+statement%22+%22president's+intent%22&hl=en
As I have been saying, without exaggeration, the time has come for Americans to stand for themselves, their country, and their Constitution, or our freedoms will be permanently lost.
The sudden and mysterious capitulation of the Democrats to the rule of one aberrant man is an ominous sign and warning that things are far worse then we could have believed.
At this critical time, every loyal American must forget party, and minor ideological differences, as these are not important now. We can argue about them once our Constitution, and the rule of law it embraces, has been restored. For now we must simply abandon the Republican and Democratic parties because they have truly been tainted beyond redemption, and now openly and proudly threaten our democracy, while facetiously exclaiming they do not.
Fellow Americans, register as Independent voters today, and then call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to do the same. Tell them you cannot empower either the Republican or Democratic parties ever again.
ST
"And so I ask, how many atrocities must we commit before we are evil? How many rights must we lose before we are no longer free?"
SearingTruth
"Too often we have been caught between word, and action."
SearingTruth
"Dictators usually surround themselves with at least the minimal trappings of democracy, most often a powerless and amoral parliament or congress to rubber stamp their every crime."
SearingTruth
It’s not "You have nothing to fear unless you’re doing something wrong".
It’s "You have nothing to fear unless the government is doing something wrong."
SearingTruth
If you look at the roll call lists, many of the senators/reps who voted for the bill are from the South. Many of them face constiuencies back home that are a little more supportive of the administration, and are probably DINOs anyway. Changing these legislators' minds about "Fear! Fear! Fear!" is not going to be easy. They probably really believe the stuff the administration puts out there.
Pelosi and Reid are going to have to start using strongarm tactics to keep these people in line.
Planet_Of_The_Whales @ 87:
This is an insensitive comment. Please review the plight of marine mammals and their relationship to us. We are an ecology that is dependent on a balance, and our ecosystem is being harmed by legislation that does not take the balance of nature into account. Our electronic activity destroys the sonar abilities of these mammals, and thus their survival.
crazylove @ 90:
Fear not fellow patriot, I do not support any candidate at this time, nor am I working for any candidate, organization, or individual.
I am simply an American citizen like you. I once happily worked as a digital hardware/software/firmware engineer, but almost two decades ago I began to perceive the slow embrace of tyranny gripping our great nation. I began writing down my thoughts and observations at that time, but only shared them in letters to my representatives and later on forums during the egregious attempt to impeach President Clinton. About two years ago I realized that our nation could soon be lost, and decided that I must speak, and even if I were completely ineffectual, try to illuminate a better path for the future of all humanity.
Fellow patriot, I am not an enemy of freedom and democracy. I am, like many of you, one of its most ardent advocates.
My call to register as Independent voters immediately is genuine, and desperate. Our time as a free people is extremely limited if we do not.
ST
"Truth is defined by the weakest of us who must suffer through it."
SearingTruth
"The greatest persuader is the ever encroaching power of truth."
SearingTruth
"Our representatives had become politicians, precluding all hope of justice."
SearingTruth
"But if we are true, if we are honest, if we are just, and if we are strong in principle and spirit, nothing can defeat us."
SearingTruth
How can they just not vote??
Searing Truth #92
Thank you for your reply - I am aware of unitary executive and the misuse of signing statements, but I don't know a lot about the specifics of Alito and Roberts --- although I have known they are too conservative for my beliefs. I have not read much about their past, but I will read your link.
I don't know if I have the courage to vote for a third party. Many of my liberal friends bashed Nader for giving the election to Bush. In my heart, I felt that it might take many elections before the two-party corporate-crats realized that the people were serious. Alas, I couldn't do it.....and I still don't know which is the most responsible way to vote. The democrats have certainly done harm in bending to Bush, but the Republican rubber-stamped congress was worse.
Worse yet, our votes probably don't count for much....since there's so much evidence that the elections are rigged. It was only because there were so many against Bushco in 06 that Rove's statement of "I have done the math" didn't work.
We are in troubled times, and I appreciate your comments.
jwazzz @ 19:
I'm with you, the democrats have been playing this game for decades and now we're onto them. I'm not old, but I'm old enough to remember other times when the democrats controlled both houses and they made the same damn lame excuses for not doing what they said they would do. This legislation could have been stopped. They didn't even make a decent fake effort. To think, when they were elected I thought that we were finally "safe". I'm done with most of the dems. They are now my political opponents, as is the fascist repubs. P.S. Cindy Sheehan was right and she deserves an apology from many of you (here) and the support of all of you. And yes, she's made mistakes/she's inexperienced but wake-up that is what it is going to take to get more people who have not been corrupted (pressured, black mailed, threatened, bribed or bought) by the system.
and hey, you lurking thugs would do well to recall more recent times when your lying beloved corrupt leaders did not do what they said they would do. Can you say, "Abortion"? Can you say, "Balanced Budget"? Can you say, "Term Limits"? Can you say, "Contract with America"? You repubs may have a short and extremely selective memory, but... I have not forgotten.
SearingTruth, went to your website and read your well thought-out take on the way things are. The idea of adding the Independent element is rather sketchy though as to the length of time it would take to impose such a thing, since the way the Independent card is used is for trickery (ie Lieberman's move in CT, lost to dem challenger for nomination, became Independent, won race, good man out). The dems in my state are repugs in disguise. Independents tend to dilute races to favor the worst of the three.
There are further questions, and one need not be coy as to one's methods. That means there is "something else" that if we knew we'd roll our eyes and grab our coats.
The odd thing I noticed were the links to "age extension" whatnots which gave me a sense that indeed, we'd end up beside the point once again.
Could BushCo have blackmailed the Dems with info from illegally wiretapping them?
YES call me crazy........ But with this douchebag in office who can tell anymore.
The Democrats and the Republicans by selling out our freedoms to King George showed their spines and how much they want to go on vacation opposed to keeping our Constitution safe.
I will applaud Senator Brown from my state for having a spine, However Voinvich as always shown his lack of honesty and spine since he was our Governor.
Men and Women are dying for this country, fighting a illegal war, got a knife in their backs by our congress.
Shame on them and may they not win re-election next term.
It's very disheartening when you give these people money, then they turn around and vote in a completely different direction. I don't think these politicians even log-on the Internet and read the progressive blogs they say they support. Are these Demos lazy or just plain dumb?
How do we start the Progressive Party?
Bernie Sanders for President!
SearingTruth @ 80:
1. Those who are taking every opportunity to bash the Dems are those I refer to. They are very happy to trumpet their love of the Constitution, but unlike leftists of the past, are just about entirely unwilling to work positively in that regard. They just time after time bash the Dems on the slightest pretext -- which this latest bs certainly is.
2. Falling on our swords refers to the 'Aventine Secession' mindset of the disaffiliated (or underinformed Dems) -- the idea that great moral stands where you put it all up for one vote are the way to proceed against a criminal conspiracy. No, neither should you stand up on thin ice. It is far better to broaden our power, strengthen our Congress, secure ten or twenty special prosecutors, and go after these bastards in the courts, come what may.
2a. The approach many would seem to want (impeachment, for instance) puts all the eggs in one basket, reempowers the R co-conspirators, does NOT deliver more evidence than is ALREADY being adduced in Committees ALREADY investigating this conspiracy, and would fail, because the Senate, as anyone can see, has SIXTY VOTES OF BULLSHIT any time the power of evil wants it.
2b. The more disaffiliated you are, the more fearmongering and rumor-mongering and Dem-bashing you do. Dem Now!, for instance, seizes every opportunity to bash the Dems, while refusing, for instance, to cover Dem accomplishments in anything more than a sentence (so they can say they did). Many commenters here and elsewhere think nothing of spreading the most outlandish lies and absurdities -- like the one where the Mexican military was going to establish a US martial law for Bushco (I kid you not) -- as well as outright slanders, and a failure to be able to process any amount of political reversal. In their minds, apparently, a six month sunset bill that can't be stopped (without a gigantic unnecessary fight) is plenty of cause to get rid of our EXCELLENT Congressional leaders.
• Apparently they would like to go back to having Minority Leader Dick Gephardt in charge -- instead of anti-Iraq Resolution caucus leader Pelosi, who led sixty percent of the House Dems to vote NAY, even while the media and Bushco were calling everyone who opposed them the traitors THEY are.
"Bernie Sanders for President!"
I'm going to write and ask him if he can put us up in his spare bedroom.
I really liked Claire Mckaskill and Jim Webb. This is so sad. I'll bet a lot of people outside the US were hoping the dems. would impeach bush and clean up the horrible mess. Think we may be in jeopardy now as a country. Like Germany when everybody just went along with Hitler even though they knew he was mad. With the media controlled by the WH...House and Senate capitulating to Bush...I'm concerned that former allies will think WE need to be stopped. There can never be enough war for republicans and no war should ever end in their minds. Now there is no one to stop them. Unless, of course WE stopped paying taxes since WE have no representation. Since I can't move to Ireland, guess I'll learn how to shoot a rifle.
I think our friend Searingtruth has done skit-skat.
Molly@105 you said,
"Now there is no one to stop them. Unless, of course WE stopped paying taxes since WE have no representation. Since I can’t move to Ireland, guess I’ll learn how to shoot a rifle."
Yeeehaw! Now that's the spirit!
SearingTruth @ 86:
As Rep. Conyers would say, 'Now, son, let me clarify a few things....'
The idea that the Constitution is upheld by voting this particular minor bill, is silly. The Constitution is upheld by eliminating the conspiracy that is foisting these bills on us. And just winning the leadership of the Senate DID NOT give us the votes to do that. Had Boxer AND EVERY OTHER ABSTAINING SENATOR voted Nay, it would have changed nothing.
No, they don't. Senator Feinstein just won last year -- she doesn't run again until 2012, by which time she will possibly retire anyhow (she will be 79 years old). Senator Boxer just won in 2004 by the largest margin in US history, third in that election only to the presidential race. She doesn't run again until 2010, and I have no doubt that she will be reelected with flying colors, as she should be.
Pretending you can remove Senators is not at all the same as being able to, OR BEING WILLING TO WORK FOR. But, anyhow, at least now we will have something like legal elections in 2008, and we can continue to work to improve the Democratic party, aka THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN. I've been fighting for a better Dem party since my first presidential vote for McCarthy. I despised LBJ, and now I know how right I was (he was funded by Brown & Root). I would LOVE to have been able to remove Feinstein, but there was no power. I was maced and threatened with knives by Swarztika supporters during his stolen election in 2003. I'm on the line -- come and join me, fellow patriot.
crazylove @ 107:
If you are just learning how to shoot a rifle, let me remind you that you are surrounded by EXPERTS. And the SWAT would love to mop you up with the rest of your Symbionese Liberation Army.
I support gun ownership, but a rifle is not your weapon of choice. If you want something to defend yourself from tyranny with, study law, and buy yourself a shotgun (and a Glock). Meanwhile, talking violent revolution is for kidnapped heiresses and people without a clue how technology has already marched on past such flintlock righteousness.
Molly @ 105:
Senator Webb is a gigantic improvement on Macaca Allen, even with his junior senator votes. You do realize that junior senators can't stand at the podium with a lit torch? He has to deal with senior VA Senator Warner, and that cannot be easy.
Nix @ 100:
I think you are close, but Could they have done his bidding because they know something we don't? and they don't want to lose favor with America's coming dictator?
YES call me crazy too........ But with this douchebag in office who can tell anymore?
Paul in LA @ 103:
ah, but touché, my good man!
1. Those who are taking every opportunity to apologize for the Dems are those I refer to. They are very happy to trumpet their love of the Constitution, but unlike leftists of the past, are just about entirely unwilling to honestly work positively in that regard. They just time after time bash those who are rightfully concerned on the slightest pretext -- which this latest bs certainly is.
Fedup but hopeful @ 97:
Fellow patriot, I am not speaking of voting for a third party. We do not have time to create a third party, nor is there a need for one at this time.
We need only register as Independent voters, urge existing and new candidates for office to register as Independents also, and then vote for those Independent candidates who vow to restore our Constitution immediately.
I have no doubt that some Republicans, and many Democrats, once relieved of the shackles of their oppressive and corrupt parties, would make excellent Independent candidates. In addition to this, many unknown citizens would for the first time have an opportunity to forward their candidacies, as the founding fathers intended. No more "millionaires club only" politicians.
As for your fears of voter fraud, they are well founded. I once specialized in what are called "embedded systems", which are essentially the types of computer systems you find in standalone devices from cell phones, to auto tellers, to voting machines. I can tell you most assuredly that electronic voting systems are 100% unsafe, even if the people who created them meant for them to be secure. And in America's case, even the manufacturers of these machines are highly suspect.
In fact, you can watch the shocking testimony by Clinton Curtis testifying before a State Congressional hearing in Columbus, Ohio on December 13, 2004 , about writing a prototype program for voting machines in October 2000 that could be used to fix elections. Who asked him to write this program? The then Florida Speaker of the House, Republican Tom Feeney. Here is the link:
"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8112825559202389150"
But then, how was it that the Democrats were able to win Congress in the last elections? Surely the Republicans would have used this technology to win forever if they could.
Well, this is true. But here's the catch. So long as their are multiple independent voter exit polls, a fraudulent election tally cannot vary by more than 4% from the exit polls or it becomes highly suspect. In the last elections the Democrats won by such great margins that the elections could not be stolen, and any planned vote manipulation would have been called off. The programs that alter votes are run in real time, so they can be turned on or off in a matter of seconds.
And that is how Independents could sweep the next elections, whether vote tally manipulation was attempted or not.
Do not give up hope fellow patriot. There are far more loyal Americans than disloyal ones. And while our government is indeed infested with the disloyal, we can still bring them to justice and restore our Constitution.
But only if we immediately register as Independent voters and stand as one against them.
Fellow patriot, never, ever, surrender to the forces of tyranny, no matter how ominous they may seem. Believe in yourself. Believe in your country. And fight, to the end, for both.
ST
"Five coincidences make a plan."
SearingTruth
"Once again, a mirage of salvation condemning all."
SearingTruth
"Terror is not a guiding light."
SearingTruth
"The weak always surrender freedom, at the first opportunity."
SearingTruth
"Who will fight, when surrender is of more comfort?"
SearingTruth
"A life, delivered in the service of liberty, endures forever."
SearingTruth
"Nevertheless, far from alone, you are in the company of truth, the most faithful of all allies, and tested of all defense."
SearingTruth
Paul in LA @ 103:
Well fellow patriot I can see that you are very fervent in your views, as am I, and quite convinced that the road to tyranny the Republican and Democratic parties are leading us down will someone be deterred by continuing to vote for tyranny, and endless investigations in which a "President" asserts that the investigated are immune, and don't even have to show up for questioning.
I believe that most Americans disagree.
Things are not that complicated. Our Constitution could be restored in a matter of months if the Democrats would simply stand up, clearly state that Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, and their accomplices have committed treason, and start impeachment proceedings and trials for all those who have subverted our Constitution.
That's what our founding fathers would have done, years ago.
My goodness gracious, the Republicans were able to impeach Clinton when he had committed no crime and the majority of the people supported him, so Democratic whimpers of "Oh, we just can't do it" fall mostly upon deaf ears.
And I'm sincere in my observations and statements. I have no desire to "bash" the Democrats, and am surprised that you would consider the abandonment of our Constitution, even "temporarily" as some will claim, the "latest bs".
It is a truly shocking and frightening thing for most Americans. And we want our Constitution, and the rule of law it embraces, restored. Immediately.
Finally, your assertions that those who disagree with you have an "Aventine Secession' mindset of the disaffiliated (or underinformed Dems)" is pretty amazing and condescending. Has it now gotten to where the Democratic Party, just like the Republican Party, considers all those who disagree with them ignorant and uninformed?
Fellow patriot, while you're insulting the messengers, your real enemies are sneaking around behind your back. I urge you to register as an Independent voter and help to restore our Constitution, now.
ST
"Who would say freedom is not free, with the price being freedom itself."
SearingTruth
"Some claim that freedom makes our country less secure."
SearingTruth
"It's not a war on terror gone wrong, it's a war on American liberty gone right."
SearingTruth
You know what to do with a soft underbelly . . . gut it.
It really is unfathomable that there are people stepping up to proclaim this latest outrage at the Dems "b.s." There was NO, I repeat NO, reason to fold on this, and I don't care if you are from a "tough" constituency from the South or anywhere else. The Dems have been letting the GOP frame the whole terror debate for years, only strapping on a pair late in the last election cycle when it finally became fashionable to do so and only thanks to the Lamont campaign. Seriously, go back and consider where we might be if that campaign hadn't come about. Every single Dem was falling over themselves to be "tough" and "serious" about the wholly invented GOP marketing ploy that is the WOT. Rahm was actively trying to squelch anti-war candidates and was pushing hard against any anti-war talk. Only when Lamont started actually kicking Lieberman in the balls and taking the primary did anything change (not that the Dems didn't hedge their bets and stroke Lieberman all the way back into his cozy office and keep him in his chairmanship position where he went on to utterly screw over the people of N.O...yes, awesome leadership there, Harry and Nancy). Poll after poll has shown the public to be hostile to this administration and its policies, yet again and again the Dems fold or simply refuse to fight (Anyone care to rattle off the number of GOP filibusters vs Dem? Nuclear option what now?). A solid majority of Americans opposed Bush's illegal wiretapping and yet the Dems felt compelled to expand his dictatorial powers. But don't you fret, 'cause it's all a part of their grand strategy. Ha! The only Dem concern right now seems to be winning in '08 and that strategy seems to be wholly built around letting the GOP hang themselves while falling over at the slightest push. Really, how is it that the GOP minority gets its way yet the Dem minority, when faced with disasters like Alito, couldn't be held accountable because of their minority status, and now that they are in the majority, can't be held accountable because the Dems let the GOP get away with a 60 vote defacto filibuster in Congress that never requires, you know, an actual filibuster?
But this, this was different. Had the Dems simply held together, this would have failed. The watered down version was still appalling, simply less so. That it failed isn't the fault of progressives in the party, but of a weak leadership that can't hold its caucus together even on craven, unconstitutional legislation put forth by a despised administration propped up by fringe radicals and Nixonian popularity. It's this kind of ridiculous maneuvering that could come back to cost them the majority in '08 and even the Presidency. This is a disaster on so many levels it's hard to comprehend. Did none of the Dems wonder why this had to happen NOW NOW NOW before recess? Why does Bush need new powers that he once argued were given to him by the Patriot Act? How many more disasters can we look forward to before '08 that the Dems won't fight so they can 100% guaranteed win that majority no matter how badly they've allowed the entire system to be gamed by the GOP?
The Dems have, since Patraeus took command in Iraq, been letting the administration rebuild momentum on the debate over progress in Iraq. New polls indicate that the recent push to paint the surge as working is actually paying off and people are starting to buy back into the administration's b.s.
This little debacle hands Bush yet another example of "bipartisan" support to both shore up his policies and crack a giant hole in the Dem party. I'm eager to hear how Webb explains how he's against the war but for illegal wiretapping and subverting our civil rights. Is Webb an improvement over Allen? Okay, sure, but how does that make his vote any more correct? How does that protect reporters who might be working with anonymous, foreign sources from getting dragged to jail? Will a further muzzled and cowed press help the Dems win the WH in '08? It's not like they aren't already going after reporters and now, again, the NY Times.
Hey, wasn't the Patriot Act supposed to "sunset," too. Somehow that not only didn't happen, but it got set in stone and expanded. You'll pardon me if I don't take the "sunset" crap as proof that this won't do any serious damage.
Not-the-idiot Bill @ 115:
Read #17 above. Speaker Pelosi tried to pass a better interim bill, but was blocked by PROGRESSIVES like Kucinich, who didn't understand that the result of their action was a WORSE bill.
If you think the Blue Dogs can be removed, go ahead and move to Arkansas or Alabama, and get to work going door to door. Because FOR SURE Speaker Pelosi did not elect them. That 'honor' belongs to the people of those districts, to the degree their elections were fair (which may not be much). It sure feels better in your gut to make these statements about how easy it would be to lay down the law on these Blue Dogs, or on untouchable Senators like Feinstein, but play a half hour of CSPAN THE BOARDGAME and see how you would have done.
And again I'll quote the Speaker, because she is not the problem:
Paul in LA @ 116:
Fellow patriot.
But that's the problem.
The Democrats say all kinds of wonderful and patriotic and peaceful things and such, but then turn around and vote for tyranny and war.
Their words cannot be reconciled with their actions, and their weakness cannot be reconciled with their duty.
The founding fathers did not take a head count and make sure they would win before they decided to fight for freedom and liberty.
They decided that freedom and liberty were right, no matter what the odds, and they fought, and they died, until they won it.
Patriotism is the simplest of ideals, yet one of the most arduous to fulfill.
But fulfill it we must.
So once again I urge every loyal American to abandon those who have abandoned our Constitution, the Republican and Democratic parties, and register as Independent voters. And then call your Senators and Representatives and urge them to do the same, informing them that you can never again support the failed and treasonous Republican and Democratic Parties.
ST
"Unlike our founding fathers, we are not asked to forge towards the defeat of some implacable enemy through fields and valleys awash with filth and blood. We are not asked to leave our homes, our land, and our families on an almost certainly fatal journey with little hope of return. And we are not asked to die the brutal and agonizing death of so many anonymous patriots, whose last anguished cry was freedom, alone on some cold and desolate battlefield.
No my friends, all we are asked to do is stand up and fight with our voices and our unaltered votes."
SearingTruth, A Future of the Brave
One more point on Senator Webb.
-- wikipedia
So Senator Webb is likely to face a darkening spectrum of conservative as his fellow Senator from VA. So there is little doubt that Senator Webb is not free to vote his conscience without taking politics into account. He has a very powerful (though helpfully saner than most R) R Senator to contend with. If Warner retires, Davis (who is in Conyers' committee and is quite a piece of work) would probably take that chair, or else an even worse ex-governor.
The foundation stone you move may be your own, if you cannot back up your rhetoric with a better set of choices in VA.
How many times DO you have to write that article before you start to notice pattern. It's not the kind you have to cross your eyes to see clearly either. It's there big and bold and it says:
Your concerns ain't our concerns, chumps. The only bucks that stop around here, are the lobbyists’ bucks on their way to our bank accounts. Besides, what the fuck do we need a Constitution for? We weren't using anyhow. Ha, ha.
Faithfully Yours (no, seriously),
The Democratic Party
At which point the American people, mistaking the public execution for a comedy, laugh uproariously and change the channel.
You're missing the point. NO bill was needed. Progressives like Kucinich stupidly thought that their party might actually have the stones to do the right thing and force Bush to back off. This reminds me of all those people ranting that Nader cost Gore the 2000 election. Not the GOP voter suppression, not the profound and continuous media attacks, not the Supreme Court interference, not Gore's own empty headed consultants like Bob Shrum, etc. No, no, it was Nader (to be clear, I think Nader can be an egotistical nitwit, but he hardly cost Gore the election). Pelosi only did Bush a favor by crafting a somewhat watered down version since it just gave his original claims credibility. This all goes back to my original argument that the Dems are playing into the GOP's hands by re-invigorating the "we need to be tough on terror and anyone who whines about oversight and civil rights is an appeaser" meme. Or, if you're into the whole brevity thing, "Boo!"
I also have a hard time seeing the advantage to having a House Speaker and Majority leader who get a free pass every time a sizable chunk of the party breaks ranks and enables a blatant cadre of war criminals. Where's their authority, then? Why don't they take the next few years off and just come back when it's more convenient?
You know who did elect the "blue dogs?" Anti-war progressives. That was Webb's big wedge issue that he threw in Allen's face at every turn (not that Allen didn't do a tremendous job of sinking his own ship, even if only by a razor thin margin). Now he goes and effectively takes a dump on many of his supporters with this vote. I doubt I'll have to drive the 2 hours NORTH to do any canvassing, since, by the time his number comes up, memories will have faded, but, of course, other mistakes may simply have stepped up to take the spot light, too. Untouchable incumbent senators? you mean like Lieberman? Oh, and where did anybody make the claim that change would be easy?
SearingTruth @ 117:
No, that's incorrect. You are confusing the 29 Blue Dogs who voted for 'tyranny and war,' and 12 others, rather than the FIVE/SIXTHS of the caucus in the House (190 votes) --including all of the leadership-- who voted NAY.
And not only that, but the Chairman Reyes presented a better interim bill, which was defeated not by Blue Dogs, but by well-meaning progressives.
Quoting all the old idealistic theory from the past is not equivalent to grapling with these REAL political conditions. If you exaggerate the problem, as with confusing 190 good votes for 41 bad ones, then you are PART of the problem.
One thing for sure, Speaker Pelosi knows, from early life with her Baltimore mayor father, how to count the votes. If those progressives had gone along, we would have had a House bill to conference with a Senate bill, instead of basically a rubberstamp from the more conservative body. But the Speaker is not going to keep the House in extended session in order to save what progressives (the irony) cost us. She immediately asked Conyers and Reyes to develop a comprehensive FISA Act bill which reclarifies the COURT-UPHELD requirements of oversight and respect for American civil rights.
The irony goes both ways -- the Speaker, who had fashioned a strategic approach to the problem, gets blamed by what results from Kucinich and Waters (et al.)'s shortsighted purism.
Ignore Paul in LA, He's a troll. Do you always wonder how come right-wing nuts support Bush & co not matter what and against their own interests and logic? Well, Paul in LA is the respective nut in the Democratic party. Here's the mindset:Always Party before Country!!! I have nothing but contempt for these people. Please Ignore him!!!
Not-the-idiot Bill @ 121:
That view of the Speaker or majority leader's power is highly undemocratic. You would like a Republican-like dictator instead of a Speaker.
That's a common desire among the disaffiliated. They distrust democracy, and want absolute freedom, without actually resolving the problems of our plurality.
Speaker Pelosi is restoring Congress to its proper balance and function. That's a crucial piece of the process of recovering from this ATTEMPTED coup. But the disaffiliated and the super-paranoid (they go together) are desperate -- we must have a dictator NOW! Of course, a good dictator, not a Newt Gingrich. No, someone who simply shouts down the objections, and cuts off the opposition, and thereby shuts down the Congress, in a radical bid to silence the House behind one will.
You will NEVER get that kind of radicalism out of the Democratic party leadership. Progressivism is not radicalized. It is normative. It is restorative. And that is a very powerful method, though it doesn't appeal to radicals.
TonyD @ 123:
Tony, put your efforts for country up against mine, and then let's talk. There is NOTHING rightwing about my defense of the Democratic leadership or party in the Congress. YOU point to one thing I have said that is rightwing! Or shut your piehole. I'm here in print -- show the evidence, or quit your slanders.
Don't you understand parallelism, dude? I didn't say you're right wing.
Paul in LA @ 109:
It's called humor Paul. Where's yours?
TonyD @ 123:
Thank you fellow patriot.
I was just beginning to wonder when I read his last post. I'm used to dealing with the right wing, but I've never seen a mirror image liberal or progressive before. I hope there aren't very many out there.
It was getting kind of getting scary ...
In any case, let's get back to the Constitution, and how it has clearly been betrayed by both the Republican and Democratic Parties.
Here is the Forth Amendment:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Pretty simple and clear isn't it?. OK, now let's imagine that we wanted to change it, for example to allow the type of unrestrained and warrantless surveillance Congress now says is legal. Well, we could do that, but not by illegally voting to change it as Congress did. That's called treason. The only way to legally change the Constitution is to amend it, as follows.
A proposed Amendment must pass with two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and U.S. Senate, or a Constitutional Convention must be called by two-thirds of the state legislatures. If the amendment passes both the House and the Senate with two-thirds majority, then three-fourths of the states (38) must ratify it.
You see, our founding fathers were brilliant, and designed this system so that tyrants couldn't simply assume power and change our Constitution on a whim.
And yet, that's exactly what the Republican and Democratic parties now claim they can do. They claim to have declared the Forth Amendment null and void, and this is simple and unambiguous treason.
And so once again I urge every loyal American to abandon the Republican and Democratic parties, who have abandoned the Constitution, and register as Independent voters. Then call your Senators and Representatives and urge them to do the same, and inform them you can never again support the Republican or Democratic parties.
ST
"My fellow citizens, the truth is that the Constitution fails to defend itself, enduring only in the brave hearts of those who would uphold it."
SearingTruth, A Future of the Brave
"We often speak of the famous but it is the anonymous who have created and safeguarded this great nation. We do not owe our freedom and liberty to a handful of well dressed men with great ideals, we owe our freedom and liberty to the millions of people like you and I who fought and died to win and preserve it."
SearingTruth
"The way to victory is easy. Just stand up and fight."
SearingTruth, A Future of the Brave
Paul in LA @ 109:
Oh, one other itsy point. the moving to Ireland comment was not mine. Although, not a bad idea.
I am so tired of the Bullsh*t that if the Dems voted and blocked the FISA bill and there was a Terrorist attack the Dems would be blamed, Bull there is going to be another Terrorist attack and the republicans are the ones that are going to do it. These are scared little itty bitty ment that like molesting children, propositioning male prostitutes, and mudering people.
Today marks the famous Osama bil Laden letter to the Moron in Office that bin Laden was going to strike America and he did with the help of the Republican party and a MENTAL MIDGET called george bush the American Traitor and his Crime Family.
Think I am kidding if you are a functional literate read it for yourself, there are Traitors in America and it is the Republican Party and this Presidency.
TonyD @ 123:
I second that.
Nice sidestep, Paul. I said there was no need for any bill expanding Bush's already sizable and illegal overreach and you quickly dodged and went back to the tired "progressives" did it (because clearly "progressive" is a dirty word). Try posting an actual argument for Pelosi and Reid's murky strategy instead of the tired "I am wise on these matters and all of you who disagree are just naive, politically ignorant, "radical," "disaffiliated" and "super-paranoid?" Explain how giving expanded powers to an administration reviled nationwide and increasingly even across idealogical boundaries helps strengthen and expand the base and build momentum for a stronger majority and hopefully even the Presidency in '08. So far your argument rests pretty much solely on trying to demean and diminish other posters as clueless nuts, even if in a restrained-but-oh-so-contemptuously superior fashion.
The dictator spiel is pure crap, too. It's called wanting leadership, which entails not only getting the team on board when it counts, but effectively organizing push back against this administration's propaganda and disinformation. Pelosi and Reid have been a mixed bag on both counts and particularly on this bill. No one called for Pelosi and Reid to enforce party unity all the time, just when little things like the 4th Amendment are on the line. Keep the strawmen coming.
SearingTruth, Your ideas are clearly heartfelt and a great relief to read. What you propose, it seems could be stuck in a marginalized mode for decades. The urgency of this flagrant and unbelievable sweep into fascism begs for a more efficient approach.
It is said, make changes early while they are still easy because later may well be too late.
We need new faces/progressives to challenge the bluedog democrats. In my state the democrat we elected completely betrayed us and has voted only 25% of the time with his peers in the senate. It will take years until our next opportunity to vote him out with a challenger.
The Bush cabal is just moving too fast and sandbagging the exits how is it possible to effectively implement what you suggest with any efficiency? Sooner than anyone thinks we'll be forced to have chips inserted in our bodies.
The democrats are talking about National Service for youth as though such a proposal had the innocence of 30 years ago. We have a pretty clear picture how youth will be treated since we see the depth of how our soldiers are worked to death on tours and not permitted to leave, receive proper medical care, or experience any freedom during R&R.
Our own soldiers are prisoners of this administration! This is so frightening for a parent.
So naturally I am skeptical and do not trust when a person such as yourself who expresses himself so elegantly holds back the entirety of what you mean or how to realistically implement it.
Unlike Paul in L.A. I do not find the disparity between the current realities in our political dilemma should warrant any downplaying of the brilliant work which is our constitution.
Washington is a ZOO. A cacaphoney of madness and serious threat.
So far as faith in things "working out" through the courts, I'll be first to say I was wrong.
So far every attempt to stay this fascist nightmare is failing abysmally.
So I ask you to be forthcoming in this urgency. We need fresh ideas that can work with clarity and thoroughness.
Not-the-idiot Bill, You've got the clearest, steadiest perceptual skill I've seen in many moons.
Paul in L.A. -
Take your Friedman Unit bullshit and cram it sideways.
What exactly do you think is going to be different in six months? The public will be less likely to fall prey to feamongering? The Democrats will learn to fight like their lives depend on it while clearly articulating that increased surveillance has nothing to do with protecting anyone? "Moderate" Republicans will finally stop putting party ahead of country? The Bushies will finally get tired of watching the Democrats predictably fold and give them everything they demand, and decide to play fair just out of boredom?
Mark your calendars, people! In February '08, apologist hacks like Paul will be stressing how the re-education camps are only temporary, until the latest terror threats blow over, and that in six months time, we'll really see some changes!
Thanks for a truthful opinion. I fully agree with you.
If they don't represent us and don't act like the opposing party, what good are they?
Upside Down Flag @ 135:
I don't think you have understood my argument. You seem to think that pointing out that the Speaker TRIED to pass a more stringent interim bill, and it was scuttled by progressives -- perhaps like yourself -- thus weakening the final result.
The strength of the Congress is something you spend all your time attacking, but it is fundamental strength of this country, and it doesn't reside in your critique. Nor has Bushco destroyed our democracy -- far from it.
Your blame is misplaced. Why don't you work on your actual enemies, or is that too much work?
Big Dan @ 136:
And this is the kind of comment I have to presume comes from an operative (a troll).
What good is house fire insurance? Why bother? Let's gut the neighborhood. Let's Katrina the neighborhood. That's the tenor of your CAUSTIC hatred of our Congress. And it JUST ISN'T PROGRESSIVE. It's radicalized. So naturally you attack whomever you can, on that justification.
crazylove @ 129:
(You were being quoted by Molly. I was responding to her, but the blockquote got dropped. Sorry.)
TonyD @ 126:
I misread what your complaint was. You think I put party above country, and that's a slander. Our party has two primary components as many have noted. There's a progressive wing, and there's a so-called DLC wing. Nancy Pelosi became the first female minority leader in US history by leading sixty percent of the House caucus in opposing Gephardt's DLCish support for the Iraq Resolution. She's a progressive.
She's a great woman, and you're not.
SearingTruth @ 113:
I'm with you SearingTruth. I have been an independent voter for years, and will dramatically ratchet up my votes for non-incumbents and third party candidates in the coming elections. We must do things differently if we are to reclaim our constitution. Maybe it's a futile effort, but you gotta start somewhere right?
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is lunacy.
dadams @ 4:
Go to the senate or house website and look up s1927. Or go to GovTrack
Hey, why didn't just ONE Senator put a "hold" on this bill? The stinking Repigs do this all the time, so why didn't ONE Senator stand up and say, "this is wrong, and I won't put up with it!"
NONE of them get any credit for voting against this, when just ONE of them could've stopped it!
It sickened me that the Dems gave in on cutting spending for the war but I said, "well they are making certain troops get the supplies they need." But to give in on the protection of wire tapping on citizens this is too much. Where can the taxpayer find a party that remembers who pays their salary?
Ed in Socal @ 41:
Yeah, um... I guess. They could have broke with the leadership when the leadership wasn't trying to defend our constitutional rights, but better now than never!
WTF, people!
It's not that these guys aren't trying to do what you want them to. They have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT YOU WANT! You have to pick up your phone (the thing you text with) and DIAL THE NUMBER OF YOUR REPRESENTATION (even if they're repubs, they still LEGALLY work for you, and letting them know their constituency is against a bill actually has meaning to the few good men out there). Tell them you don't give a **** about "flip-flopping" or "soft on islamofacists!", that you DON'T give a crap what the MSM says about them, because you ACTUALLY WATCH WHAT THEY DO. Here's how you do it.
a) Get the phone numbers of your representation. Use google, lazy bums.
b) Make a list of the issues that matter to you, and what you want done about them. Are there bills you want shot down? Are there bills you demand support for?
c) Look up their recent voting record and make a few notes.
d) CALL THEM and tell them what you wrote down. Tell them that you are an idependent, you don't care about their party, you will vote for them based on their record, and you'll tell your friends to do the same (word of mouth is the most powerful propaganda). Tell them you really appreciate their support for the things they did right (try to find something), and tell them you have serious reservations about the things they did wrong.
The party system is an institution whose time has passed. In the 21st century we are more than capable of forming and communicating our own nuanced opinions. This is what the "blog-o-sphere" is supposed to be all about.
Don't wait for elections! Your representation are all CIVIL SERVANTS, they WORK for YOU. You can't bitch about them NOT doing THEIR JOBS if YOU DON'T DO YOURS. You have to MANAGE them, not just show up for performance reviews (elections).
I'm spent.
My father & grandfather were Roosevelt Democrats & I always considered myself a Kennedy Democrat. After all the cowardly, spineless bullshit since the 2006 elections I am done with the Dems.
But I want to send out a special "fuck you" to Nancy Pelosi for committing the greatest political blunder of our time by taking impeachment "off the table".
Hey Pelosi FUCK YOU !!!!!
I just heard a caller on NPR raise an interesting and frightening point.
If you've called "support" at any large company in the last 5 years, you've probabaly been forwarded to India. That communication would be 100% open to government surveilance.
Now I can't even sexually harrass hot foreign tech support staff without the government cataloging it. "Small Government" my ass!
Through out history we've seen times were government plays on the fear of people. But the truth lies within our founders - Ben Franklin, said "Those who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Take nothing for granted, these are the liberties that our forefathers have fought for. Power is Corrupt. Please send the a message, "how dare you" we put you in to do what is right for America, NOT what Bush threatens the Congress with. Spineless - Shame on you selling us out. http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=281
I agree with comment 145 - but I also understand the frustration of many myself included. I called, e-mailed, wrote letters against the invasion...for a clean election. And resulted nothing...it really feels that you are talking in the wind.
When I do hear of occasional public outpour, like with the selling of the Ports, which just put it on the back burner really did not stop it. It is a small victory of public being heard.
Changes are needed only so many signing statements allowed. Presidents DO NOT GET TO APPOINT the Justice. Perhaps we need to clean the system so that one person can't control the counter checks. And LIMIT the damn lobbyists.
How about term limits on Congress and the House...less reason to spend time garnering campaign cash and more time to actually read the bills in front of them.
Maybe with all the destruction Bush has wrought some good will come out of it...one has to have a hope.
Its not like they just comprimised on something thats against the dem platform and got something somewhere else in return. They caved 100 pct on an illegal enterprise.
Instead of frog marching them out of DC to Ft Leavenworth, they retro-validated all their crimes. Their compliance makes them accessories to a historic crime against the bill of rights. I for one am now looking for a suitable third party to hang my hat with for the rest of my days.
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