This guy is a nut.

Huh????

I don't speak Idiot. Can someone translate???

I’m a little confused by this guy. He claimed that an earthquake caused the mine disaster yet the earthquake people have not been able to justify that claim. In my experience the earthquake people are usually right on top of it and have figured out within hours and it’s been days. I haven’t heard anything since late last night but it seems weird to me.

I heard this guy spouting off yesterday in the background while I was making money hand over fist on the computer but I think I heard him say something about a four minute earthquake. Is it possible that is what I heard? I don’t think earthquakes last 4 minutes usually. I want to say never but hey, I’m not an expert on everything. I think maybe the rumbling ground was caused by the mine caving in in a four minute chain reaction caused by shitty mining.

This Murray guy is a piece of crap....I saw a vid earlier of him calling a Senator ignorant...screaming at helicopters..telling the union of coal miners off...his fines on his mines that he hasn't paid is less than he has donated to the GOP. I now Global warming.

"Little was known about the six miners; only one has been identified. The Mexican Consulate in Salt Lake City said three of the men are Mexican citizens."

and for Latin Americans...They are guarding the green zone and are increasing their presence in the war on terror thanks to our sub 'machine gun' contractors. cheap labor.....Cheap soldiers...semi trained...Low OVERHEAD. Aweful

It's not Clinton's fault?

hadenuf @ 11:

It's not Clinton's fault?

LOL. He did say Hillary was un-American.

That guy is an idiot. I had him on yesterday and couldn't believe what I was hearing. He's so much more concerned about his business than the lives of those miners.

Concerning those Mexicans, Hannity and Limbaugh will probably spin by not talking about this at all. Or, maybe they'll make something up about how they had their green cards.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070808/ap_on_re_us/utah_mine_collapse

Murray insisted the crisis was caused by a natural disaster.

"This was caused by an earthquake, not something that Murray Energy ... did or our employees did or our management did," he said. "It was a natural disaster. An earthquake. And I'm going to prove it to you."

However, seismologists said the mine collapse appeared to be the source, not the result, of the seismic event recorded by seismographs.

"Our seismologists at the University of Utah are careful not to rule out any possibility, but they tell me all of the available evidence indicates that the mine collapse itself was the earthquake," Lee Siegel, a University of Utah science news specialist, said Wednesday.

My heart goes out to the miners and their families...
Also this on Bob
http://www.umwa.org/journal/VOL112NO4/july1.shtml
Promises Made, Promises Broken Exposing the Real Robert Murray

Of the 325 citations issued against the mine since 2004, according to a quick analysis of federal Mine Safety and Health Administration online records, 116 were what the government considered "significant and substantial," meaning likely to cause injury. Inspectors have issued 32 citations against the mine this year, 14 considered significant.

Yup, this guy is a classic Bush Republic type.

Tell us what a victim HE is, blame the media, use the cheapest possible labor, screw the workers, and give himself HUGE bonuses!

You almost wish for a nice French or Soviet Style Revolution, so these guys could be publically flogged for crimes against the people.

Pure Profit

In light of the latest mine disaster, I especially miss Jordan Barab's writing at Confined Space. I've been hearing various reports about the collapse on various corporate media outlets. I hear retreat mining mentioned in every one. That's because t...

Once word got out that the miners were Mexicans the search effort seems to have stalled. It just doesn't seem like the "we have to save our people at all costs" drama that played out in West Virginia. Murray sounds to me like a self promoting windbag, using this accident to get face time on tv. I would bet dimes to dollars that next week they determine that the rescue effort is to dangerous and everybody goes home.

Yeah I have been watching his press briefings and my conclusion is this.

Bob Murray = Scumbag

jay severin has a small pen1s @ 20:

I saw this guy on TV yesterday. I'm sure when it comes to the lawsuits, he's going to deflect all responsibility to GOD. Great defense. "Your honor, it was their time to go...it was God's will...so I can't see how my company could be in any way responsible."

"Judge, I know people. Does the name Dick Cheney mean anything to you? If you don't want to end up judging a pie eating contest at the State Fair, you'll leave me alone start convicting those global warming nuts and those pointy headed bureaucrats in Washington."

hadenuf @ 26:

In his biographical sketch, Murray says "the employees know that our relationship is for a lifetime."

Which is a much shorter time than may be expected.

Ahh, ain't it great living in a third-world country?

If I'm reading this right, I think I struck gold.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/murray_energy_politica...

every miner in this country needs to be part of a union. These robber baron era working conditions are sickening. These CEOs only think about this quarter's profits and not the safety of their employees or the long term future of their company

I'd send this sumbitch to hell if I could. Read this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/08/business/main3144730.shtml

AnnCoultersMoustache @ 36:

Bush Bites @ 33:

If I'm reading this right, I think I struck gold.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/murray_energy_political_action_committee.asp?cycle=06

5,000$ to Macca, and 5,000$ to Katherine Harris, 5000$ to Pombo....Yup this guy is pure scum of the Earth.

Katherine Harris?!!?!? Damn, he's a complete freak.

I believe they said today that it will take at LEAST another week to get to them. The hole they are drilling where they THINK they are will take at least 3 more days. I will be the first to admit I don't know anything about mining but why is there only one entrance in these things? Why aren't there plans for these kind of disasters?
My parents live in this area. I know for a fact that jobs are very hard to come by there. Shame on him if he hired illegals. The funny thing was, yesterday when he was giving his rant, msnbc kept cutting him off and saying they would be back when he actually said something about the miners, instead of giving his resume.

I'm a mine safety attorney in Kentucky.

Bob Murray just stated in the latest press conference that some of families of the trapped miners do not speak english and require translators. One of the questions not being asked by the media is whether the three mexican miners trapped could speak english and what was their level of fluency? And if not, were mine management bilingual and did they provide mining plans in spanish for the miners? In "retreat" mining, many fatalities result because companies do not adequately train their miners on the "pillar plan." Because you are basically cutting away the remaining coal that is supporting the mountain above your head, the sequence of cuts has to be followed precisely to adequately protect the miners. I just hope management at this mine ensured that the miners were properly trained and understood fully the plan approved by MSHA. Too many accidents have occurred where miners haven't been properly trained by the company or even shown the pillar plan. And in those cases, there wasn't the added danger of a possible language barrier.

Also, after being criticized at Sago for their failure to timely inform the public and allow the coal company to run the press conferences, it seems MSHA hasn't learned a thing. MSHA allowing Murray to schedule and dominate the press conferences, and sometimes actually interrupt MSHA's presentation, is shameful and a disservice to the American public. We are still not getting good, relevant info out of Utah. But we are getting plenty of the Bob Murray show.

This is what happens when Mexicans work in American mines.

His rambling rant yesterday about people trying to unionize HIS mine was all I needed to know about this douche-bag.

U.S. Reps. Miller and Woolsey Statement on Utah Mine Collapse

Tuesday, August 7, 2007

WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Rep. George Miller (D-CA), the chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee, and U.S. Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), the chairwoman of the House Subcommittee on Workforce Protections, issued the following statement this afternoon on the collapse at the Crandall Canyon Mine in Utah. The Education and Labor Committee has jurisdiction over worker safety issues and the U.S. Mine Safety and Health Administration:

“Our thoughts and prayers are with the six trapped miners and their families. We hope the miners are brought safely out of the mine.

“The families of the six trapped miners are deeply worried about the welfare of their loved ones. They need and have a right to the most credible, objective, and up-to-date information available about the status of the rescue effort. So does the public. Following the Sago disaster, during which miners’ families received incorrect information, the Congress made it the primary responsibility of the U.S. Mine Safety and Health Administration to provide the families and members of the news media with the most accurate possible information. The news conference held this morning at the mine did not meet this standard. U.S. Labor Secretary Elaine Chao must ensure that additional public communications regarding the rescue activities at the Crandall Canyon Mine are conducted by MSHA in order to ensure that the families and the public receive accurate information in a timely and responsible manner.”

Do Americans get it yet? That this is what you get--mine disasters, bridge disasters, health care disasters, education disasters-- from the republican model of government.

Got civilization?

I'll take him up on his offer and call his bluff. No way in hell he backs up his challenge - he can't afford to get his nails dirty.

AnnCoultersMoustache @ 36:

Bush Bites @ 33:

If I'm reading this right, I think I struck gold.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/murray_energy_political_action_committee.asp?cycle=06

5,000$ to Macca, and 5,000$ to Katherine Harris, 5000$ to Pombo....Yup this guy is pure scum of the Earth.

He's a mine owner, that's the job description.

AnnCoultersMoustache @ 36:

Bush Bites @ 33:

If I'm reading this right, I think I struck gold.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/murray_energy_political_action_committee.asp?cycle=06

5,000$ to Macca, and 5,000$ to Katherine Harris, 5000$ to Pombo....Yup this guy is pure scum of the Earth.

$5,000 to "Man on Dog" Santorum $5,000 to Talent $5,000 to Dewine in OHIo

Of course he's blaming an "earth quake" for the accident, yet the scientific data shows quite the contrary. Go figure, a reich-wing ignoring scientific data.

So they were using illegal alien labor.

#39: The CBS Article you furnished is a must read. Can you imagine, Murray's mine
has been issued 325 citations since 2004, of which 116 are categorized by goverment
as "significant and substantial". This guy needs to have his company taken away from
him since it is evident he does not care about the miners, but only PROFIT...and, of
course, donating/contributing to other Repigs.

Sorry the legislation was upheld by a court in my previous post, it was attempted to be scuttled by you know who.

Bob Murray uses Utah mining tragedy to attack Global Warming

Should read...

Bob Murray will attack anything that gets in the way of him making more money

Profit befor People. This man is pure scum of the earth!

He has a faced that launched a thousand coal barges.

-GSD

What's really bad...

As far as energy goes we don't have many options. Global oil production is predicted to peak in a few years, when it does it will become very expensive and scarce (even more so), very fast. What the US will likely do is switch to coal or nuclear. Both have problems but coal has very serious, immediate environmental effects because of mining on a large-scale and air pollution from burning it. Right now, given the state of technology, our population size, and our standard of living, renewable fuels cannot supply us with the energy we consume. This is a matter of energy return on investment (EROI). An example is corn-based ethanol, it requires almost as much energy to grow the corn and produce the ethanol as you receive from the product. Basically, you only break even and your net energy is close to 0. Windmills aren't bad. Solar panels have a high energy investment and most require rare metals, this lowers EROI. We need an energy source that has a high energy return on investment to continue our lifestyle as is. With oil, you spend a relatively small amount of energy drilling a hole and all this energy just flows out. We don't have anything left that is like this. Greater efficiency will help also but it is shown that as people use more efficient devices (e.g. hybrid car) they tend to use that device more intensively. So if you have a Prius you drive more. This offsets any energy savings to some degree. Also, there is a physical limit on efficiency and usually as efficiency increases work rate decreases. So the bottomline I think is that alternative fuels and efficiency are good but even if applied maximally we still cannot maintain our current lifestyle in the US, let alone grow the economy. The talk of alternative fuels and efficiency is only one half of the problem, eventually we will have to have a smaller population and a much less energy intensive lifestyle. This is perhaps a good thing, the ready availability of energy in the form of fossil fuels has accelerated environmental damage and many other negative things.

Samson- @ 62:

his comments, from earthquakes to past violations/deaths in his mines, have all been disproved and refuted....

so, in that way, he fits the std mold of global warming/climate crisis deniers: void of credibility, profitting from lack of environmental safeguards, crooked, deceitful and just plain crazy.

Along those lines:

Murray and the government differ over whether an earthquake caused the cave-in and whether the men were engaged in "retreat mining," in which miners pull down the last standing pillars of coal and let the roof fall in.

Murray and the government "differ" like Cheney and everyone else "differ" over Saddam's links to Al Qaeda. Murray is definitely not in the reality-based community.

Yeah, coal is a super-cheap source of energy when you don't pay all the costs. Economics always slips up when people don't figure in all the costs, like the cost of healthcare for the black-lung disease in the miners, the costs of mine safety, the costs of sulfer (acid rain) and mercury pollution, the costs of global warming from carbon dioxide pollution. Coal is only "cheap" because Murray is taking the profits and letting us pick up the costs.

Old Billy @ 75:

Yeah, coal is a super-cheap source of energy when you don't pay all the costs. Economics always slips up when people don't figure in all the costs, like the cost of healthcare for the black-lung disease in the miners, the costs of mine safety, the costs of sulfer (acid rain) and mercury pollution, the costs of global warming from carbon dioxide pollution. Coal is only "cheap" because Murray is taking the profits and letting us pick up the costs.

exactly Bill, the hidden cost (see, detrimental impact) of coal...

yeah reporters go down into the coal mine with mr. big stuff. while you're down there turn off all of your lights for a few minutes and see a dark you can feel it on your flesh. think about how it feels to wait in that oppressive dark and try to breath through a faulty respirator. think about what it's like to slowly die in that dark.

WASHINGTON - Millionaire coal magnate Bob Murray knew the name to drop in September 2002, when Mine Safety Health Administration inspectors confronted him about safety problems at his mines: Sen. Mitch McConnell.

Murray, a large man with a fierce temper, is a huge donor to Republican senators. McConnell, R-Ky., rose through the ranks by raising money for those senators. And McConnell is married to Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, whose agency oversees MSHA.

Shouting at a table full of MSHA officials at their district office in Morgantown, W.Va., Murray said: "Mitch McConnell calls me one of the five finest men in America, and the last I checked, he was sleeping with your boss," according to notes of the meeting. "They," Murray added, pointing at two MSHA men, "are gone."

wow, just friggin wow...

can i get a 'hallelujah' for the first reporter to march up to mitch mcconnel (and, i'm not even going to mention what a NIGHTMARE the thought of a sexual trist btwn elaine chao and mitchy MC would be... of wait, i did. nevermind.) and ask him about this????

The irony in this disaster is that the miners were robbing the pillars. From elsewhere on the net:

A highly dangerous practice in mining was known as "robbing the pillars". This was very profitable for the coal company because it allowed them to take the maximum possible amount of coal from the mine.

When the miners had taken as much coal as they could from the vein, they would mine out the coal pillars which supported the ground above them. The coal pillars would be dug out until either all the coal was gone or the roof caved in, whichever came first. This often resulted in mine subsidence and miners being buried alive due to the lack of support for the ground above.

This phrase, robbing the pillars and another "selling the seed corn" are ones I've used to describe the short-term ever-increasing-profits-at-all-costs modern business practice through America.

The roof fell in on the miners. And all over America, the roof is falling in the economic viability of Americans and eheir employment.
Robbing the pillars has a mortality rate 3x higher than that of normal coal mining...but robbing the pillars of the America at large will kill America.

If he shut his trap, perhaps the globe would cool a little.

Every time that I've seen that blowhard on the television all he's doing is covering his own ass. I hope that that bastard is suide for all he's worth but he won't be since he has those ties to the Repunuts.

Samson- @ 82:

sorry, forgot the source of post #80

http://www.kentucky.com/233/story/11062.html

Wow..that is some kind of interesting article from 2006. I too would love to see some
reporter(s) bring this to the attention of Mitch...and real, real soon.

The global warmings are going to disrupt my profits streams...as do safety measures.

Mine Safety @ 43:

I'm a mine safety attorney in Kentucky.

In "retreat" mining, many fatalities result because companies do not adequately train their miners on the "pillar plan." Because you are basically cutting away the remaining coal that is supporting the mountain above your head, the sequence of cuts has to be followed precisely to adequately protect the miners. I just hope management at this mine ensured that the miners were properly trained and understood fully the plan approved by MSHA. Too many accidents have occurred where miners haven't been properly trained by the company or even shown the pillar plan. And in those cases, there wasn't the added danger of a possible language barrier.

I lived in Appalachia for 15 years. My grandfather was a coal miner. I have the greatest respect for those who are willing to do this dangerous job (environmental concerns aside for the moment), in order to provide for their families. I have the greatest contempt for those who are willing to sacrifice the lives and health of these miners just so they can line their pockets with a little more gold.

You have a difficult job, Mine Safety, thank you for standing up for the miners and explaining what may be lurking in the background of this situation.

Can you all say "dinosaur"? I watched a show on tv the other night about mining in the old days, and how they simply power washed the ore, etc. Of course it RUINED the land, but they got what they came for.

Same old shit line from these capitalist pigs. The only thing that matters is profit. To hell with the miners. To hell with the environment. I have no sympathy for such dogs.

Murry says, "we are doing everything humanly possible to rescue these miners".....

Should have "everything humanly possible" to PREVENT these miners having to be rescued.

I have no sympathy for self rightous Capitalist Pigs.

He comes off as a bit of a nutcase. Very odd verbal delivery, with odder content.

I'd hit this shithead so hard his whole family would bruise.

His name isn't Murray; it's Squealer.

"A Republican and a staunch supporter of President Bush, Murray has long opposed government efforts to address global warming. He frequently refers to Al Gore, whose book 'An Inconvenient Truth' focused attention on climate change, as 'the shaman of global doom and gloom.'"
Los Angeles Times, "Mining Boss as Chief Spokesman," August 8, 2007

Over the last three days, this GOP ass-clown has been using his potentially deceased employees as a soapbox to trash-talk mining safety, global warming, Democrats, Congress, the Media, and God knows what else. CRUCIFY. THIS. AMORAL. S.O.B.

owner of the Utah mine where six workers remained trapped underground Tuesday called state efforts to pass stricter mine safety laws "seriously flawed, knee-jerk" reactions.

"I resent these politicians playing politics with my employees' safety," Robert E. Murray told the Columbus Dispatch in January 2006.

Yeah, I resent politicians playing with the lives of MY miners ! Thats where I get my jollies off. After all they belong to me, their my property, said Robert E Murry.

Is this Murry related to that GOP presidential primary candidate from Utah ?

They have akin similarities about them.....................

I think we need to make this guy a Poster child for the Grand Old CEO.

Maybe some Russian WW II era style poster, trying to make him look as heroic as possible; "Get back to work! Or the Global Warming fanatics win!"

"Once word got out that the miners were Mexicans the search effort seems to have stalled. It just doesn't seem like the “we have to save our people at all costs” drama that played out in West Virginia."

Please get your facts straight. They are not all Mexicans and they are trying everything they can to get them out. You have no idea how dangerous it is in the mines. Not only do they have to ensure that they don't cause another collapse, they have to make certain that the rescuers are not hurt in the process. Miners are miners no matter what race or ethnicity, don't make this a race issue.

You all may feel bad, but unless you have someone who mines coal you have no idea what this is like. The complete dread of knowing that they are basically trapped in what my old man calls hell on earth has kept me up for the last three nights.
 

Captain Kangaroo @ 5:

I’m a little confused by this guy. He claimed that an earthquake caused the mine disaster yet the earthquake people have not been able to justify that claim. In my experience the earthquake people are usually right on top of it and have figured out within hours and it’s been days. I haven’t heard anything since late last night but it seems weird to me.

I didn't trust Murray from the get go. His adamant statement that an earthquake caused the collapse was too much protest in the face of calm scientific evidence being broadcast by seismologists at the same time. Now, this elaborate stream of press conferences, smoke and mirrors involving microphones and cameras...it just smacks of deception, giving the illusion that Murray's mine company is going all out to rescue six men huddled in a dark hole in the middle of the earth. I pray that these poor men are found alive, but I feel in my bones that Murray is the tip of a very bad iceberg in the mining business.

Alas, we see unfolding before us the implosion of a self-made millionaire whom used human beings as disposable commodity.
The attempts of manipulation of the victims families, a false pretense of "concern," (which is more about his gaining notoriety in the media and creating "spin") and scattering disjointed efforts to place blame everywhere except on his own company's problems. "The 'Robber Baron' doth protest too much, methinks." to paraphrase Shakespeare.
The short term gains for greed have cost lives; due to Mr Murray's insatiable quest to create an empire at any expense.

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General Jack D. Ripper @ 15:

That guy is an idiot. I had him on yesterday and couldn't believe what I was hearing. He's so much more concerned about his business than the lives of those miners.

Concerning those Mexicans, Hannity and Limbaugh will probably spin by not talking about this at all. Or, maybe they'll make something up about how they had their green cards.

Actually, they probably wouldn't make a big political deal out of this like this forum did. They don't HATE others such as liberals like you and others quoting their nonsense.

And it's true about all the global warming laws and taxes that will inevitably follow, and without coal to keep it cheap, you're electric bills will be 2-3 times if not more.

As far as global warming being man's fault, I personally believe it's nonsense as well. Solar fluctuations are 99% of the problem, what are you going to do about that? Absolutely we should do what we can about pollution, that's a no brainer, but we have do do it without bankrupting the world at the same time. We have it pretty good in America, think how it would be in poorer countries without the support of our industries? If you want anarchy and chaos, then keep thinking the way you do.