August 08, 2007 11:02 AM
Torture American Style
I know I should be stunned, but I'm not.
"The C.I.A.’s interrogation program is remarkable for its mechanistic aura. 'It’s one of the most sophisticated, refined programs of torture ever,' an outside expert familiar with the protocol said. 'At every stage, there was a rigid attention to detail. Procedure was adhered to almost to the letter. There was top-down quality control, and such a set routine that you get to the point where you know what each detainee is going to say, because you’ve heard it before. It was almost automated. People were utterly dehumanized. People fell apart. It was the intentional and systematic infliction of great suffering masquerading as a legal process. It is just chilling.'..
There's much more, so read on...
Too bad they don't put that attention into medical care and new procedures....hmmm, or maybe they do...FRIST!
Its not torture when the good guys do it
We don't torture. Busholini just told us.
[Deleted. Banned poster]
This will be Bush's hell. Every torture technique he approved of will be implemented on him for eternity. Don't feel bad for him, he won't be alone.
More my cup o' grog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrBe09SIENA
Guess that makes me a sick perv.
I understand the Nazis were very efficient too. But leave it to us to have QA/QC experts designing our torture chambers
ys - i used to watch love, american style all the time as a kid!
People were utterly dehumanized. People fell apart. It was the intentional and systematic infliction of great suffering masquerading as a legal process. It is just chilling.’..
"Yipeeeee, Yay, aren't they SOOOOO happy!!!
These fuckers get their rocks off on this shit.
It's all becoming so clear now, that the purpose
of our existence is to 'rule & control' to our hearts desire.
It's all becoming so clear to me now. 2 + 2 DOES make 5.
Finally!!
So there is something this administration can to without it being a total cluster-f%*K. After 6 years I'm glad we've identified something that BushCo is capable of doing well.
Using torture, Bush made us into the bad guys. Torture is evil, period.
"People were utterly dehumanized. People fell apart. It was the intentional and systematic infliction of great suffering masquerading as a legal process."
We're turning them into republicans?
Sick! Sick! Sick!
"The America I believe in doesn't torture people"
During the WarPigs press conference a few minutes ago, he asked about his torture program. That evil, dead-pan glaze came over his face and he answered "We don't torture".
Yeah.........riiiight.
Meanwhile, back in Burma, the U.S., U.K. and France support the Dictatorship.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/131.html
So, we're better at it than the NAZI's.Wow, we've come so far.
They oughta package, franchise and export their practices as a business model for banana republics, rogue dictatorships and fascist regimes everywhere. Torture, Inc. has a nice ring to it.
Yes that old right winger mantra comes to mind.
"Better to be feared then loved"
Filthy Harry @ 12:
Seems like it, doesn't it?!?
Lord, I could not read beyond the 2nd paragraph knowing that the images would give me nightmares.
Man's inhumanity to man is just getting more sophisticated. I thought we were more enlightened these days but obviously not. I am sickened/disgusted/outraged/demoralized.
nffcnnr @ 17:
Monsters, Inc. maybe? It could be sponsored by Disney with merchandising and everything.
Ugh. I feel sick and depressed.
nffcnnr @ 17:
They already do that. See the above post #15.
nffcnnr @ 17:
The School of Americas Isn't that the name of Torture U?
ScrewBush @ 10:
It figures. The only thing this steaming pile of feces is good at is illegal, immoral, and evil.
Science must respond by inventing a suppository that makes people at least ACT human, and then shove it up the asses of the assholes in gubmint!!!
This will require a large batch o'pills.
And they will keep doing it as long as no one gets prosecuted and punished.
Filthy Harry @ 12:
Brain-eating zombies. Same thing really.
You know, when high school students of today read Brave New World and 1984 the books must seem sort of tame. When I read them 30 years ago they scared the crap out of me.
you got to put your jackboots on their necks , grind their mush into the dirt , kick in their balls ram a hot poker up their rectum, pull their fingernails out and then really get mean, condie rices douchbag!
kablooie @ 24:
Another example of the Republicans' fixation with all things gay.
nffcnnr @ 17:
McTorture
Dr. Acula @ 8:
I prefer it French style, or should that be Liberty Style?
. . . winning the hearts and minds . . . ?
Digby's piece is great, but what prompted her (and what you quoted) is Jane Mayer's piece in the New Yorker, which Digby also quotes.
when i was a child in the late 1950's it was the germans and japanese who were so bad because they used torture. americans were good because we did not. times have changed.
Blue Rose @ 19:
High Tech Barbarism.
Femurs and Clubs have been replaced with high tech "utensils".
I really miss my country.
And just think, WE pay for this shit, at the expense
of our labor. We get to slave all week to make some
company rich, and the tax on our labor goes to
support torture. Don't we all feel better now?
What does the Vatican have to say about Torture?
Where the hell is this all going to end?
We are NOT The United States of Torture.
Stay Strong Everyone.
We are still the United States of America.
We will NOT let them take everything good about our Country and WE will NOT let them send it down their dark dark path...
Make no mistake...
This "war and dark vendetta" has been going on between factions of greed vs. good in our Country for decades..
Make no mistake..
Our Country is now run by the SAME , but now expanded group...
...That John F Kennedy spoke about at the American Newspaper Publishers Association
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel New York City, April 27, 1961
a speech given about Secret Socities and the "dark aspect of the CIA"
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/S...
Where are the REAL leaders?
The people.
This is exactly the what happened during the holocaust. Systemized, rational, methodical, predictable dehumanization of an identifiable race of people.
Bush and Co. are following the example of Hitler and Nazi Germany. It's almost as though they're using the same field manual.
Virtually everything the US has done in the last 60 years in terms of foriegn policy has been illegal, immoral and murderous.
But hey, we get cheap gas, 99 cent burgers and all the bananas we can eat. What's a little murder and torture if it allows us to continue to sit in rush hour inside our Hummers snorting cocaine, sipping our Grande Mocha Lattes with extra foam. Shit man, we've got it made!
Oh, and to the person (or machine) reading this email in a secret room at NSA or CIA or AT&T or CSIS or wherever....take your war of terror and invasion of my privacy and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS!
How is the Bush administration going to keep it's torture techniques secret? Those who have been tortured know well what has been done to them and once released are free to tell whoever will listen.
The question is, will anyone who has been tortured be released in the foreseeable future, even if they are innocent or only committed minor crimes? There are only two ways I can think of to keep them quiet. Having been tortured may be the sole justification for a lifetime of incarceration.
Of course, the CIAs techniques don't leave any signs of physical harm, but the design is to break minds not bones so instead of leaving physical cripples behind, they drive people absolutely insane. They may have mental scars that last a lifetime. Maybe they believe that these people will have little credibility once released because, after all, they're just a bunch of crazy ex-terrorists.
I wonder how many innocent people have been tortured. Imagine the horror of being tortured and having nothing to say because you're innocent. Eventually you would confess to anything just to stop the torture. That's why witch hunts always found witches.
Ironically, the Red Cross, having talked to these detainees, knows more about the CIAs techniques than Congress or the American people. If any detainees who have been tortured, have been released, then I'm sure the CIAs techniques are no secret to terrorists either.
Ignominious-bush @ 16:
Or we have went so far back in time. The Bush Administration's torture methods would be the envy of ancient Rome I'm sure. All Bush needs to do now is authorize the use of crucifixion. Its funny how the Christian right supports the Bush Administration's torture methods yet condemns ancient Rome for doing pretty much the same things. I guess they do not see the irony in that because the United States is now the new Rome.
Washington, D.T. (District of Torture)
So what are we going to do about this? Denouncing it as repugnant and bestial is only a start. We know this administration won't stop, even as the stories become public knowledge. We have to do something to stop it, what are we going to do?
Bananaphone @ 43
Don't participate in the corporate system of slavery. Don't pay your taxes. Don't give your money to corporations. Don't give your time to corporations. Don't get a credit card, a loan, a mortgage. Live the way you want, not the way they want you to.
Hurruph!!! So were refining that interrogative practice (Don't call it torture, Chimpy said we don't do no torch-ur-in see) down to a fine art eh... Huh, yea, kinda like the nazis.. The fucking gestapo made sure all their i's were dotted and t's crossed too... And the death camps??? Waay the fuck organized.... almost 'automated' in that the nazies knew pretty much what to expect from the vic-- er participants in those places.... And how disposal afterwards would be carried out....
Hell of a role model there boys and girls.... Such a thing to aspire too... No wonder the 28 percenters are feeling so proud of our nation these days.... Who wouldn't... Especially if you're a Big Brother lovin fascist brainwashed pig already...........JD
Rush Limbaugh says that torture is good and wholesome.
Torture is a tool of fascist oppression. Those that support torture are immoral and anti-American.
Those that dismiss and downplay torture are doing the devils work even though they claim they are on the side of angels.
-GSD
bob @ 44:
Yep.
-GSD
How nice, six sigma torture, and how comforting we can do it so efficiently. I'm sure being a black belt in torture will be a big badge of honor with republicans. And I am sure Kafka would be proud of them too.
Perhaps we should put a p.s. on every e-mail directed to those Americans who have been hired by Bush to ruin our nation?
-GSD
TSP note: You know what you are doing is wrong.
Torture-Mart
utinsils made in China
Wow. I don't know about you guys and gals but I am taking the detainees side on this one. Whats not to believe.
It appears we have finally learned from Stalin, Ho, and Mao how to effectively obtain essential elements of information from the enemy.
Six Sigma torture... great way of putting it.
Utterly disgusting, makes me ashamed to be an American, especially living with a society that is largely indifferent to this.
Most Americans support this torture through their silence and the nice republican life they have through all the other ways our country is looted.
If I had the funds to relocate I would. Maybe in a few years.
"You asked me once," said O'Brien, "what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world."
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Literature Network » George Orwell » 1984 » Summary Pt. 3 Chp. 5
Summary Pt. 3 Chp. 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 5
Winston is confined in Room101, strapped to a chair in a way which rendered him completely immobile. In front of him were two tables on which stood two covered wire cages. O’Brien was holding a lever which would operate the cages. Impassively, O’Brien explains that what Room 101 contains is quite simply, “the worst thing in the world.” This varies from individual to individual. For some it may be torture, fire for some one else, drowning for yet others. For each individual, Room 101 held his greatest fear. When confronted with that, courage and cowardice lose their meaning, one will do whatever one has to do to avoid the horror in Room 101 as naturally and automatically as one will grab at a rope to keep from falling.
In Winston’s case, his greatest fear, his worst nightmare was rats and it was rats there were there in the cages in front of him. O’Brien informs him that he is going to open the cages and set the rats onto him. The rats are starving, they will sense Winston’s helplessness and devour him inch by inch. Winston cries out in terror asking O’Brien to only tell him what he has to do to avoid this. O’Brien vouchsafes no answer and lays his hand on the lever which would open the cages. In a total frenzy Winston sees the rats behind the bar and with a sudden flash of intuition realizes what he has to do to save himself. He has to take the final step of degradation, he has to betray Julia. It is no longer a matter of choice, before this threat, he is helpless. He cries out “Do it to Julia! Not me!” Repeating that cry he is aware that the lever has clicked back into place, the cage is closed. His degradation is finally completed in Room 101.
George Orwell » 1984 » Summary Pt. 3 Chp. 5
Torturing people for whatever intention is a cruelty beyond measure....
It degrades the soul of a nation who indulges in such extreme devices...
And places us in that special international category that is stained with the blood of its victims...
Last week or so, the wsws.org reviewed 2 dystopian novels. Gave them poor reviews because what's currently going on is worse than fiction.
In high school and college I took a number of history courses on WWII. When the Americans liberated the camps in Germany and Poland they reported back what they saw, and of course we've seen the pictures. The Nazis kept meticulous records of their crimes against humanity, which involved extensive examinations by medical doctors and shrinks. These documents, pictures, and reports by personnel who found them informed the legal framework that became the Nuremberg trials, and the later amendments to the Geneva Conventions - championed and led by the U.S.
The U.S. has always been the country that rigorously defendend transparent legal process. Modern human rights law is BASED on the insistence of the U.S. to create and enforce such laws. Why? Because it was the U.S. who saw first-hand the evil that was inflicted by fascists. It was the U.S. that was enlightened.
No longer. The U.S. has lost all moral authority in less than 7 years, thanks to the criminal regime that is in the process of destroying our way of life.
kablooie @ 42:
Washington, D.C. (District of Cruelty), Districe of Contempt, District of Criminality...take your pick.
Torture doesn't work that well anyway. Sources usually end up saying anything, or what the interrogators want, to get out of the situation. Ask McCain or read his book if you need verification of this. Extreme torture is necessary only in extreme cases: your are in battle and your family is being shelled and you want to know where the shellers are now so they don't kill your family. I personalized this as any of you with families would interrogate the shellers using whatever methods needed to prevent this...or, I hope you would.
Reading all this makes this scene out of Brazil, shot over 20 years ago, seem prescient, and not in a good way.
~Nyc
[Deleted. Off topic]
[Deleted. Banned poster]
[Deleted. Banned poster]
One of the myriad problems with torture, is that while it may succeed in extracting information, the torturer cannot extract information that the suspect does not possess.
Imagine the torturing of an innocent man suspected of being a terrorist. He truthfully denies the accusations, but his denials are taken as resistance. The torture continues, until in hopes of ending the torture, the suspect begins making things up and confessing to crimes he did not commit.
When his lies are checked out and revealed to be false, the torturer assumes the suspect is still resisting and continues the torture. Where does it end?
Of course in Wingnuttia, Jack Bauer only tortures the guilty.
[Deleted. Banned poster]
[Deleted. Banned poster]
we've become everything they told us the Soviets were like as the military industrial complex looted the treasury over then they are looting the treasury over now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_From_Omelas
myiq2xu @ 65:
Exactly right. One never knows. Usually the source has EEI (essential elements of information) about current battlefield conditions. The low level source's information is good for about 24 hours or less. By then the battlefield situation has changed and the source's information is obsolete and useless. The interrogation, in most cases, ends. High level sources are held and interrogated for years as their knowledge is extensive. War, unfortunately, involves the killing and torture of civilians: ask the Spanish, Vietnamese, Germans, English, Soviet Union...Unless war is abolished, the tortures will continue.
BTW: Jack Bauer is a on a TV show, I think. Don't watch it.
Bush Admin. is afraid to permit due process of law by securing a hearing by the attorneys. The reason is that classified information of torture and tactics would be revealed to the attorney in charge whereby made public to the world. Ha, ha.
Is this democracy that preserves the rights of those accused?
Or is this dictatorship or gulag?
You decide!
Torture American Style
http://www.hillary.org/hillary/dominatrix.jpg
What is shocking is that 50% of American voters voted for what they knew was a torture president in 2004. What does it take to defeat this kind of social cancer??
In a strange sort of circular logic, the interrogation becomes the justification for indefinite detention, even long after the interrogation ends.
not strange, circular logic = criminality
would be great if one of the Dem candidates hinted at holding the Bush admin accountable...
scruzman @ 70:
Here's my favorite TV spy show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cscedJQ3PFU
scruzman @ 70:
There was top-down quality control, and such a set routine that you get to the point where you know what each detainee is going to say, because you’ve heard it before.
That line pretty much says it all, no?
bob @ 44:
That's almost exactly what I was saying the other day. Pull your money out of banks, stocks, bonds, 401k, cut up credit cards, debit cards, store loyalty cards, etc. Cash only. Stock up on medicines, food, water, weapons(and I don't mean just guns;there are all kinds of nice silent weapons) have alternate transportation, and a safe place to go to.
I think some torture works. Just force somebody to watch this over and over again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAR8LpQrVtY
I read the excerpted paragraph and almost threw up.
What's the first thing true Americans decry when they speak of how America has gone so far downhill so fast? Torture.
This makes me sick.
Old Billy @ 80:
Choosing not to torture is a moral value.
...
StirFry @ 78:
You have a point, methinks. After seeing that 5 times or so, I'd be begging for the anal suppository sedative.
OK--Godwin time. It is so patently a description of the Nazis keeping meticulous records of the millions they exterminated. So, time for puns--when Putsch comes to shove! I am so disgusted with my so-called government. I am about to launch a site advocating giving great apes the vote. I will blog-whore it eventually once I get organized. I cannot conceive of a Republican chimpanzee or gorilla. Not sure about gibbons, though.
So,,, I guess we can blame it onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, SAYY-TIN ?
BoiseNick @ 84:
Nah, even he doesn't want anything to do with BushCo. (He is however, opening a new circle in Hell just for them.)
As Americans, we are responsible for the actions of our government. While many of us would protest that we do not support torture, being the "good German" does not absolve us of our responsibility.
WE ARE A NATION OF WAR CRIMINALS
You mean it wasn't just a dunk in the water?
the u.s. has been outsourcing its torture for generations. just ask guatemalans, el salvadorans, and chileans. bush is just better at it, more bold, a true sick-o fuck. this shit will sink this country. it is depraved, immoral, and the national character, already twisted with its obsession with fame and consumerism, will grow colder and more violent. people are "shocked" when grotesque crimes occur in newark and connecticut and at virginia tech but just check out the glorification of torture on 24 or the torture porn hits like saws 1,2,3, hostel, all that sick shit. it's a by-product of the violent fascist core that the u.s. has become under these sick bastards.
Going on six years after 9/11, shouldn't we be pretty much done with the torture anyways? Haven't all the active terrorist planners been rounded up and gleaned of intel?
Not only is the torture itself bad, the denials and justifications are just as bad. That's what puts you on par with all of the murderous regimes who ever practiced crimes against humanity.
Honestely, I think we need a [Deleted. Please do not advocate torture on this website-Sitemonitor]
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