Harold Ford: Pulse on Republican Talking Points
DLC Chairman Harold Ford makes an appearance on FOXNews' Hannity & Colmes to prove that he is the cutting edge...of Republican politics.
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Sean Hannity points out that the Democratic presidential contenders attended YearlyKos but not the DLC convention, which obviously means they'd rather pander to us DFHs. Ford kindly gives us a little advice:
I would have gone to Daily Kos and told them, I think they're wrong the way you go about practicing your politics. If you're serious about winning the war and bringing the country together, get another message and another set of tactics...
Uh, no. See, Harold, there's a reason no one showed up to your convention and worship of the centrism altar: it doesn't work. WE get candidates elected, Harold. Not you. Look it up.
Oh, and Harold? Here's a little advice from the "radical" liberal blogosphere: Don't go on FOXNews. It only shows what a DINO you are.
No wonder he lost his senate race. Talk about being on the wrong side of history.
Harold Ford: Concern Troll
With friends like these...
I can't stand him. He's been a tool of the right for years. I have no respect for him and it is because of people like him (and the Clinton's) that a lot of dems have completely lost all faith in the democratic party. He's a DINO. And anyone who appears on Fox is making a big mistake. They should be boycotted for being the propaganda outlet they are.
I don't think he lost because he was on the wrong side of history, I think he lost because he was not on the wrong side of history enough! It's Tennessee we're talking about. He's as DINO as it gets.
Becoming a Fox News Democrat is not exactly a wise move, Harold. You're doing more to prove the point Daily Kos is trying to make better than DK itself could ever do.
You gotta love it when they WARN you. Cause then you just KNOW you're doing the RIGHT THING.
If he's that desperate to be part of the repug war profiteering team he needs to get off the telly and get in line to give king shrub the required oral copulation. It's included in the price of being a repug black shirt.
poor harold is on a losing streak. first he loses the senate race by trying to be a centrist (sure he was slimed, but i live in tennessee; corker ran as a conservative and ford ran as a centrist. guess who won), now he's the chairman of an increasingly irrelevant "leadership" group. and his uncle is a felon.
Is it me or doesn't he sound and act an awful lot like Lieberman? Can you imagine him in Congress with an actual House or Senate seat? He needs to go away, just like Lieberman.
Ford sounds like another Lieberman. I suppose he's prepping for the next run in Tennessee.
JeffS @ 5:
and corker is so crooked he has to screw his pants on in the morning (to borrow from the late great hunter s thompson). ford didn't make any distinctions between himself and corker, and let's face it: he was NEVER going to convince conservatives in tennessee that he could be one of them, or even reasonably please them. he was faking it and he lost.
HA!
Harold Ford?
"who" is Harold Ford ?
Fox will put any hack on the air these days....
I don't understand this guy. He gets swiftboated by these Fux Noise assholes, then he sucks up to them like John McCain giving Geedub a bear hug.
Must be Stockholm Syndrome I guess.
Jim in Johns Creek GA @ 9:
Look at TN-9. His asshat family thinks they own that seat. They are trying to primary Steve Cohen, a true progressive.
DLC=
DINO
Leadership
Corporation
While I tend to agree with most of the opinions expressed here, I am not sure that the Kos-approach is any better than "centerism" in terms of getting Dems elected. You state "WE get people elected..." In light of the Connecticut senate race, it would be more accurate to say, "WE get people nominated." The fact that race was lost in a left leaning state has to cause rational people to think there is some value in the center.
solid @ 13:
Negative attention is better than no attention at all, which is what he's getting from the Dems. Expect more bad behavior to come!
lonesomerobot @ 11:
That goes back to a point Kos, or someone else made. Don't try to out do a Republican. It only shows what a phony you are and the Republicans will just vote for the real Republican anyway, not some Harold Ford pretend one.
Harold:
STFU.
Tell him yourself.
and how many people on the "radical" lefty blogs helped support his candidacy? more than one is too many.
"WE get candidates elected, Harold. Not you. Look it up."
Are you serious? Tell me how the candidates you get elected are different from his candidates? Are the candidates you get elected the same Democrats that caved on FISA, the patriot act, invading Iraq?
Should you really be arguing about who elects equally crappy candidates? Are you proud of that? Do you even realize that you are tilting at windmills?
Joe Klein's conscience @ 14:
and they'll probably win, because the ford family does own that seat, and a large part of memphis. his uncle getting stung taking bribes isn't going to matter (last time harold jr. won this seat, he took the vote 82-18). tn-9 is basically a legacy appointment for them.
UCE @ 16:
The only thing of value in the center is a yellow line. To paraphrase Jim Hightower.
F**K Harold Ford. F**k The DLC. These people are Republicans.
UCE @ 16:
The problem is that CT allowed sore losers to run again in the general election. In most states, when you lose the primary, you can't run in the general. Put it another way, it was a perfect storm that allowed HoJo to win. He won because the Republicans in CT put up some schmuck who barely got 10% of the vote. They knew HoJo was really their man.
UCE @ 16:
In how many races does a primary loser asswipe drop his party and run as an independent? Not too many I would think. Anyway, I will never forgive Connecticut for what they did to our country.
He goes on Fox because he is a paid contributor. The very reason why other DINOS like Kirsten Powers and that Jane lady who gets kicked around by that son of a bitch O'Reilly, go on Fox.
Who the hell is this weak loser anyway?
lonesomerobot @ 22:
So how did Cohen win the seat in the first place? IIRC, Harold's little brother was on the ballot last year(as an Independent or something), and got trounced.
I'm still mad at him for pardoning Nixon.
Oh, did you say "Harold Ford"? And what's the difference, again?
UCE,
lieberman's not really a good example because republicans in connecticut were more willing to vote for him than their own sleazebag gambling addict that was up for the seat (or, of course, ned lamont). lieberman won because of the republican support he got. and he knows it.
Immigrant @ 27:
Jane Hall? She is just a soul-less paid shill.
The only pulse Republicans get anymore is from their Implantible Cardioverter Defibrulators.
They don't work though, because they're still fibbing.
I agree, keep moving to the left, you guys!!! That's where most Americans are, like McGovern in '72.
Joe Klein's conscience @ 25:
The fact of the matter is that Lamont, who won the Democratic primary on the Kos-Approach, was too far to the left to win in a left leaning state. Moderate voters -- Republican and Dem alike -- jumped and voted for Lieberman. Not being popular enough/electable enough to get a plurality is not a perfect storm or every election would be a perfect storm.
Fox has nothing on Colbert--they have a black friend too.
Hi Folks, Frankly to me it seems that Mr. Ford is doing (and has done) a political makeover. We'll see him turn even more to the "right" (which he'll try to sell as the center) precisely because in the current political climate what will keep him quite popular is to be a conservative/moderate African American man. Those Republicans in power seem to be quite comfy with either what Michael Eric Dyson calls the "black-as-victim" position, or with the conservative/moderate, "voice of reason," African American. There's an inherent racism there that is quite clear (well, Bob Allen apparently is both, quite comfy and not so much). The DLC also wants to appear as if they are the "voice of reason" in America, and they in turn position themselves as the neutral arbiters of the political field. Except, they are not neutral, and they don't want to recognize that their positions only exacerbate the ills of our political community, and legitimate the excesses of the other side. A good question for Mr. Ford is where does he draw the "centrist/moderate" line. When the time comes to get "tough" and to stop the drift to the right, how much will he and those like him have compromised? Will he even be able to stake out any firm position against the right?
Nicole: Thank you!
YOU are exactly right...the Democratic Party is "Republican Lite", and there are less than 10 liberals in the Democratic Party, Dennis Kucinich being one of them.
They have pandered to the center and right, and foresaken us! You are exactly right!
What will happen, is people will start voting for parties like the Green Party or Ralph Nader, if they don't stop this.
Joe Klein's conscience @ 29:
errr, maybe it's because harold jr's little brother jake is a high school dropout and has served time in jail? and has no prior political experience?
Harold, how do you win that which cannot be won?
Geez, what a fuckin wacko.
We need a REAL opposition party to the Republicans! NOT "Republican LITE"!
solid @ 26:
To be fair, it was the Connecticut Republicans, voting against their OWN candidate, that put Lieberman in office.
...and how about Ron Paul saying he wouldn't contest the electronic voting machines?
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Ron_Paul_supporters_preparing_challenge_of...
sour grapes much?
He's just pissed off that WE didn't get HIM elected in '06. Now he's on the war-path against the gate-crashers. Trouble is, there's nothing that will stop internet/blog politics. There is no leader to discredit. There's no central authority to crush. We're like cockroaches. Good cockroaches. The kind that eat the garbage of the Right-wing, and shit Democratic victories.
Wow, that's a horrible analogy, huh?
My husband's band does a really rocking song about Harold's aunt, she's a state senator who keeps falling off the barstool!
Next time they perform it live I'm taping it for youtube.
Big Dan @ 38:
"What will happen, [again] is people will start voting for parties like the Green Party or Ralph Nader"
Hannity should be more concerned with his GOP's Actions and activists. People going around to military funerals and disrupting. Yes that is a religious right group.
Actually I think if Hannity would get exported to Iraq and start his conservative movement radio show for the middle east. It could have an irritating effect on the radicals and would draw them out into the open to get at Hannity. So our troops could round them up. Yes, use Hannity as Bait.
Really, If Hannity and his like were to try to give time to republicans, It would be so harmful to put light on them that he would destroy the repubs. So he is always worried what someone else is up to because his own yard is one big hog pen..........................
what a way to sell the DLC. go on Fox??
DINO!?
Revo @ 21:
uh, no. Sorry, Revo. With the exception of Amy Klobuchar (whose voting record otherwise is stellar) and Sestak, all of our Blue America candidates voted against the FISA amendment.
We're committed to putting progressives in office and as Sestak can attest, we have no problem holding their feet to the fire if they don't vote as they promised...Sestak has been dropped from Blue America.
Big Dan @ 43:
Those folks here in Texas who prematurely stuck Ron Paul stickers on their bumpers may find themselves pulling them off as time goes on.
UCE @ 16:
If you look at the polls, it was CT Republicans that elected Lieberman over their own party candidate--and the RNC pumped a LOT of cash into Lieberman's campaign.
Had Lieberman accepted his primary loss the way any honorable person would, Ned Lamont would be representing CT right now.
big dan,
i realize that ron paul seems like a reasonable dude because he says one thing that we want to hear (iraq war is illegal). but the guy's a libertarian -- take it from me, a former libertarian. he's pro-life, and would love to see the grover norquist antidote to the federal government. his voting record is one of the most conservative there is.
he doesn't support the lawsuit from the story you linked to because as libertarian he doesn't believe in (what he would call) "frivolous lawsuits".
do a bit more research on ron paul and you'll find that although he may transcend party lines, it's pretty much in a 'government bad/end-all-regulation' way. i don't trust corporate america to regulate itself like ron paul does.
Nicole,
You seem a little defensive here. It's okay to disagree and for Harold to have a different opinion/set of politics. You don't have to be snide about your disagreement.
Respectfully,
Andrew
What an assface. How does legitimizing Faux News help elect democrats, Mr. Ford?
Face it, this guy is a mid 30s egomaniac desperate to prolong his period in the spotlight. He's another Joe Lieberman. The sooner we purge these worthless fools from the party, the better.
Did that puppet Colmes bother to ask why Harold Ford LOST in the biggest democratic party sweep in decades?
i know it is "controversial" (for some) but i am in the 'starve fauxnews' camp of progressive politics. not that harry ford is progressive, more like a wolf in sheep's clothing. but, anyway, don't go on faux news, period.
why do it? why add to their lies about being 'fair and balanced', why help them portray themselves as legitimate? why be their puppet?
fuck 'em. they are going to spew reichwing talking points no matter what, no matter who gets on their neofascist programming and attempts to set the record straight.
of course, DINOs go on b/c they are political whores (like ford), but true progressives/liberals should forever refuse to go on the GOP weapon.
If you’re serious about winning the war and bringing the country together, get another message and another set of tactics…
"winning the war?"
harold, harold, harold.
there is no winning the illegal occupation of iraq. there is no winning a global war against tactics.
but then, as i suppose we learned in 2006, you really don't understand what "winning" is.
Andrew Logant @ 54:
Agreed.
werenotgonnatakeit @ 2:
Hey that was supposed to be my title!
That is what people told me when I said that I didn't trust the Dem's change of heart leading up to the last election. I argued that if they came around that easily on the issues, then clearly their ethics are for sale.
So give me back my title dang it! :P
lonesomerobot @ 53:
here, here!
Nicole Belle @ 50:
Congrats. Your blue candidates did well on one issue. Take a look at the rest of their voting records. For example, Ben Cardin has not met a defense authorization bill he has not liked. Same with Tester. Great, on an example of something so egregious as FISA, your candidates act morally. But, be honest, are these candidates that you help elect, are they really the ideal? Or are they the lesser of two evils?
Andrew Logant @ 54:
Respectfully, Andrew, try reading my posts not as defensiveness, but as snark. Ford's entitled to his beliefs and I'm entitled to call him a concern troll over it. Ford has been trying--very unsuccessfully--to pull the party to the center. Why? If you ask the country their attitudes on the direction of the country and our future, they OVERWHELMINGLY agree with the progressive agenda. Why should I be understanding or even polite to someone who is trying to lead us AWAY from what the country wants and then appears on a program/network that has devoted themselves 24/7 for the last 10 years to saying that my values are ruining this country?
Peoples Front of Judea @ 49:
Democrat In Name Only
i think nicole stated her case just fine, not to suck up. but anyone that comes out with guns a'blazin' needs to realize that there can be sharp elbows on both sides, cliche, cliche, cliche
UCE @ 35:
The fact of the matter is that Lieberman lied to the voters of CT and ran as a anti-war "moderate." He also received more money and votes from Republicans than the Republican candidate did, even though he promised top caucus with the Democrats.
If Sore Loserman hadn't jumped from the Democratic party and ran as an fake independent, Lamont would have won in a landslide.
Are you serious? Tell me how the candidates you get elected are different from his candidates? Are the candidates you get elected the same Democrats that caved on FISA, the patriot act, invading Iraq?
yes, a bunch of dems caved on fisa, but then again a majority didn't. it's time to look at individuals rather than a 'D' or an 'R' (or a 'G') after the name. in fact, it's always been that time.
and speaking of the 10 democratic liberals, why aren't more progressives abandoning the foolish "electibility" test and supporting the candidate who best represents their views?
yeah, yeah. i'm blogwhoring, but i'm too lazy to spell it all out again.
rizzle @ 58:
Disagree. This guy's a DINO and he's a loser, and THIS is the guy in charge of the "leadership" of the Democratic Party? The only thing Harold will lead us to is a Bible reading and more electoral losses.
I usually love the site, but I think your criticism of Ford is unfair. Your berating him for going on Fox News is no different than O'Reilly's attacks on those who attended the Daily Kos. It's ridiculous. How are we supposed to have a dialogue with the other side of the aisle without engaging them in both of our playing fields. By skipping out on the forum that is Fox, like it or not, you are skipping out on a huge audience. You gain nothing by not being heard.
Samson- @ 60:
+1
Revo @ 61:
Other than advocating anarchy, what do you suggest? We're putting out progressive candidates. Howie Klein vets them as best as we can and we have ongoing campaigns to keep them reminded that it's their progressive promises that got them elected.
If you're going to suggest third-party candidates, don't. I am COMPLETELY, 100%, and TOTALLY for viable third, fourth and fifth party candidates, but the operable word is VIABLE. They just aren't now. That's a longer term campaign which I would not be opposed to working on. But right here and right now, we have to get people in office who will not be the rubberstamp we've seen for the last six years and have done so much damage.
lonesomerobot = right on ron paul
myiq2xu = right on lieberman.
dirk has spoken.
Also, we liked this guy when we thought he was going to win. We are two sides of the same, shortsighted hypocrite coin.
daniel romens @ 68:
Who is saying that Ford is no different than Hitler and David Duke?
I missed that comment. Attributions please?
daniel romens @ 68:
it's more about what he had to say (and why) than where he said it.
daniel romens @ 72:
who is this "we" of which you speak?
Nicole,
Of course you are entitled to call him what you feel and be snide about it if you wish. Don't get me wrong, I AGREE with [most of] your arguments and positions. I'm just saying it comes across as a little less persuasive when you attack him in your "snark"ish way as opposed to arguing with him on the merits. The problem is our progressive candidates have not gotten us out of Iraq as of yet.
Why should you be polite to someone who disagrees with you? It's just a better way to live one's life. I would hate for you to become as dismissive and ignorant as the far-right Republicans we all loathe.
Respectfully,
Andrew
daniel romens @ 68:
Sorry, Daniel, but we vehemently disagree on the legitimizing of FOXNews. There's no chance to have "dialog" with the other side of the aisle on Fox. There's no balance. There's no open audience. You're there strictly as a patsy. If you haven't figured that out by now, you're not paying attention.
And yes, there is a HUGE difference between those who paid to attend a convention and choosing to appear on a cable news program.
nicole,
i like snark. and as for the far right repubs, they are dismissive but generally have no sense of humor or feeling for satire/sarcasm.
keep it up, girlfriend.
daniel romens @ 68:
Do you think you're really heard, or given a fair hearing, on Hannity and Colmes. Bwahahaha. You're the type of sheep that the RNC counts on. These guys fight with guns and you bring candy. Haven't you learned anything over the last 6 years? The way to win isn't to try to convince the FNC America-haters - it's to rally your base with a candidate the 30% in the middle can tolerate.
daniel romens @ 68:
i don't think it is a question of "being heard". i think it is more a question about propaganda handed down from political and coporate elite versus open dialogue between average citizens. absolutely no comparison. that is, unless you think that dailykos and fauxnews are mirrors of each other.
consider the amount of faux viewers who still think that saddam ordered 911, and how many faux viewers think we found wmds in iraq.
nope, i just don't see how anyone could compare the two... even as a stretch, for analogy purposes it just doesn't hold up, IMHO.
"Whaaa! Whaaa! Whaaa! They didn't attend MY party! Well, I'll show them!"
You'll show them, alright. You'll show them how much you're out of touch.
What a tool.
Why should you be polite to someone who disagrees with you?
one last bit of bit of self promotion in answer, then i'm off to my usual haunts.
but i'll be back. this is an interesting place.
I actually hoped that Ford would lose. When I saw that he was running as a closeted Republican I knew that he would. Why would any Democrat vote for this pathetic excuse for a Democrat.
He was a regular on Imus's show. That is his caliber.
-GSD
Nicole Belle @ 70:
The alternative? Honestly, I do not know. Personally, I feel a lot of sympathy towards what you are trying to do, but working within the existing structure I think is naive. Can you give me an example of where, from 1980 on, the system was changed, for the better, from within? Perhaps I am too cynical but I think history is on my side. From Reagan till the present the country has really moved to a corporate fascist state. Sure, our brand of fascism is much friendly that previous versions, but when the system is designed to benefit corporations it is fascism. I really hope you can prove me wrong with some meaningful, long lasting examples.
The alternative might be to except that our democracy has failed. Time to scrap it and start a new. This is not anarchy, but instead find a way to replace, not fix, our broken system. What that looks like or how it can be done is well beyond me at this point. Our country is unique in that we do not work on rebuilding our government.
When a so-called Democrat goes on Hannity's crappy show and Hannity treats him so kindly, the guest is no Democrat.
Andrew Logant @ 76:
Are you related to Ford, by any chance? How do you figure I am ignorant by dismissing the ridiculous framing posed by Fox News, and in this case, Ford in his desire to be accepted by somebody, anybody?
Sorry, Andrew, I find your post offensive and frankly misogynistic. My attacks are far more on point than the attacks that I, as a liberal, have had to endure from FOX News. Nor have I seen any complaints about the other contributers (who are all men) who word their posts as strongly or more so than I. Ford embodies a concern troll for the Democrats. His "advice" to work across the aisle and move towards the center is EXACTLY why we haven't gotten out of Iraq yet.
You need to remember that the vast majority of America is on our side. There is no downside for Democrats to act like Democrats right now. Ford wants them to act like Republican-lite and I am grateful I have this platform to tell Democrats that tactic is a mistake.
DLC's offices are closed through august 20th. Great leadership . . .
I like how all these concerned posters start with expressions of how they usually agree with everything and then add "but."
Of course we don't want to be like them. We aren't like them, and never will be.
We aren't rascists, we don't advocate violence, we don't want to deny them the right to express their opinions, no matter how stupid we might believe them to be.
As for rudeness, snarkiness, or profanity, I think Nicole has the right to say whatever she wants in her own place.
Smack_dab @ 85:
so true. a strange litmus test for a person's political leanings. the hannity-man crush-meter.
and if hannity needs that advil on your penis for his headache you are in rightwing land. (still cracks me up, oh you john oliver)
Revo @ 84:
History has shown that accepting that a form of government has failed doesn't work out so well for the citizens. Russia/USSR/Russia is a perfect example of that.
The republic created by our Founding Fathers was and is a beautiful thing. I have to believe that it can be again, but we've taken a trouncing from neo-Republican policies for the last 20 years. There's no immediate fix, but throwing up my hands and giving up is not an option for me.
Revo @ 84:
How about a little farther back than 26 years? Try 1932. Big sea-change in American politics, took place completely within the existing 2-party system.
Why doesn't this smug little, homophobic ass clown take his sorry ass and get a job a Jiffy Lube, rather than running around pretending like he's anyone of any concern in the Party now?
I'm glad this idiot lost...I really am. In fact, when he was running and spouting off all his religious shit and bashing the gay community, I said I hoped he lost--much to the horror of most of my fellow liberals. I just new from the get go that this guy is just another, albeit darker, Zell Miller!
daniel romens @ 68:
echoing what others here have said, sorry, fox news isn't the "other side" - it's the other side's smear machine. they're not there to listen to us or to care about our views and fairly represent them. they exist only to find ways to humiliate and weaken us.
we should give them no acknowledgment, time, or respect. any "democrat" that does is merely legitimizing their attack machine.
Notice the "Barrack Backtracks" graphic behind him.
Right behind Harold, a died-in-the-wool Hillary-ite?
Ah, Faux will do almost anything to get it's Hillary vs Rudy match-up?
They are laying off Hillary to make sure she gets the nod, and then can load up once Obama, whos the real cross-over and moderate Republic threat, is out of the picture.
So, in that case, they agree with Harold and the DLC.
Faux knows, the Republics LOOSE on the issues, so they need a candidate they can make the issue?
Harold and his pals at the DLC know a lot about losing, and are making sure they get their wish eh?
When is he going to accept money from Murdoch?
Nicole Belle @ 90:
Our country was formed by the failure of the colonial system. We said, this fails, it does not meet our needs, so the Founding Fathers changed it. I am not suggesting giving up, but I am suggesting that your energy be better spent on what that change should be. I know this is not at all as glamorous as working within the system. Fact is, it is down right depressing, but working within a broken and corrupt system is silly. Even the recent changes in Latin America did not take place directly within the system, but were led by outside forces to oust puppet regimes. Accept the failings of the current system? Absolutely. Give up? No, work to replace the system with something better. This is what our country is all about. The Declaration of Independence express this need to replace the current system perfectly.
Harold Ford is letting himself be used by Fox. And it's no mistake they put a picture of Obama up behind Ford because to a certain part of the Fox audience, they look so much alike that they are the same person. Fox is really afraid of Kos for some reason.
Geez, if you really believe that.......Wow
Democrats would NEVER have taken over the House and Senate last year if it wasnt for the centrist Democrats, Webb, etc....
Wow....
myiq2xu @ 91:
solid @ 98:
believe it or not its true. your choice.
the FACT is that that the rightwing has to scare people to vote against their domestic and cultural interests. by using effin' false issues like gay marriage, flag burning, etc. if not they would be crushed in their obvious siding with corporations over americans.
you know this, you must know this.
lonesomerobot @ 31
True; also remember that a lot of the national Democratic machinery came to Connecticut to stump for... Lieberman! The Dems were only interested in keeping a warm body with seniority that would caucus with them than about the preferences of the Democratic voters of the state; nor were they alarmed that the Rethugs were blatantly working to get Lieberman re-elected. Neither party seemed particularly interested in supporting their own candidates.
Revo @ 96:
And how do you propose doing that? Declare a revolution? Start a second civil war? Because you're not gonna get everybody to agree with you to scrap the system, and even those who agree to that will not agree with you on what the new system should be.
History shows that totally reorganizing any political system results in bloodshed.
I'll take my chances with the system we have, thank-you.
That remark Markos made about the dead contractors is going to be around for a long time. People who go to next year's YearlyKos are probably going to be asked to account for it. Fair enough. I sure wish he had never said it. It's worse than anything Ann Coulter has ever said.
Samson- @ 100:
correction: i meant to say financial not cultural... i'd say typo, but that would be one huge honking typo
Personally, I like things in the middle. But the thing these DLC retards never understood is that national politics is like a game of tug-of-war. When you have two sides pulling from opposite ends the flag usually stays in the middle. If one side starts pulling from the middle while the other side is still pulling from their end, the flag always ends up on that side's end.
I don't know if I explained my point very well but it makes sense to me.
Revo @ 99:
GSD @ 83:
i have to admit i voted for him (but i held my nose while i was doing it). as i've mentioned before, ford is a dino, but corker is a slimeball. in retrospect it's probably better he didn't win, because it would've somehow validated that dlc/centrist position. during the election he was being touted as the democrats' 'next big thing'. pretty much a flash in the pan, from what i can see. methinks harold is a bit frustrated about how he's being kicked to the curb...
Nicole Belle @ 86:
Here is my point, the argument you laid out above is much more compelling than your original post. He goes on Fox News to express his point of view and you attack him for it in a defensive and snide manner, rather than attack what he had to say.
But, you since you feel the simple point I made about your original post is "misogynistic;" you prove my point for me. You're a little too defensive when someone disagrees with you. I never said your post was too "strong." I only said it was defensive and snide.
Andrew
Brawlin_Dem @ 105:
the problem is that there is no "middle"
we have been moving right for decades. case in point: nixon. he would be considered a tree-hugger today.
this is part of the problem. some dems want to be centrists, yet the right keeps moving things, well, to the right. the flag most definitely does not stay "in the middle", that is wholly inaccurate.
add Harold Ford to the list of things in the rear view mirror.
bye.
Samson- @ 100:
Sorry, but the "Solid" comment was mine. I have no idea how that info was populated in the name and mail fields.
Anyway, No matter what you might think about the right wing's tactics on getting voters to the polls, it still doesn't have anything to do with my original point that thinking the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in the Progressive agenda is bunk....pure and simple. I'd wager the percentage is the same as those that still believe the President can do no wrong.
The rest of us are in the middle. That's why candidates run there. Not because they want the extra work, but because those are the majority (or plurality anyway), and those are the ones who decide elections. 25% will ALWAYS vote Republican, and 25% will always vote Democrat, but the other 50% simply don't walk in complete lockstep with their chosen party's platform.
Thinking otherwise is simply delusional. By either side of the extreme.
Sorry, but the "Solid" comment was mine. I have no idea how that info was populated in the name and mail fields.
Anyway, No matter what you might think about the right wing's tactics on getting voters to the polls, it still doesn't have anything to do with my original point that thinking the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in the Progressive agenda is bunk....pure and simple. I'd wager the percentage is the same as those that still believe the President can do no wrong.
The rest of us are in the middle. That's why candidates run there. Not because they want the extra work, but because those are the majority (or plurality anyway), and those are the ones who decide elections. 25% will ALWAYS vote Republican, and 25% will always vote Democrat, but the other 50% simply don't walk in complete lockstep with their chosen party's platform.
Thinking otherwise is simply delusional. By either side of the extreme.
Very good point.
I'm against Iraq and most of this president's policies but the fact is fox noise is #1. like it or not. don't be a pussy. show some guts, take them on and kick their ass. even if you get a few noise viewers over to your side, it's worth trying.
Our country was formed by the failure of the colonial system
And we have become what we rebelled against.
If you want to support a Democrat, support Dennis Kucinich. Tell the Kossacks. They crashed the gates, only to stand there and look confused. The progressive blogs need to rally around the one truly progressive candidate, then put the country on notice.
Che's Lounge @ 114:
That brings up a very good point to my previos post. If the country truly did back the agenda of progressives in the overwhelming majority Nicole claims, then Kucinich would be a front runner, and not the Democratic version of Alan Keyes......
Samson- @ 109:
I suggest that you look again, things are swinging back to the left.
From the beginning of the New Deal through the Great Society, Republicans tried to prevent all the changes enacted by Progressive Democrats. On the issue of race, Southern Democrats defected to the Republican party.
There has been a decades long, well-funded campaign to undermine, roll-back and/or repeal outright all of those changes. The campaign has used lies, and distortions rather than truth. "Welfare Queens" driving Cadillacs and "Voodoo Economics" were just some of the falsehoods foisted upon this nation.
The campaign was however, successful in accomplishing many or its goals, particularly in the areas of deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy.
That success is also its undoing, as Americans are increasingly beginning to realize that the Republican party and the right-wing that controls it do not have their best interests in mind.
rebecca logan @ 113:
No one "kicks ass" on Fox. They will lie and smear right on the air in order to marginalize any opposing viewpoints and satiate their preconditioned audience. It's a waste of time. If you think for a second that any Fox viewers come away from any interview like the one Ford succumbed to with any ability to assimilate opposing viewpoints, then I have a bridge I want to unload on you. It's in Minneapolis.
Jay @ 111:
delusional, bwahahaahaa, thanks bud.
those that think "the progressive agenda is bunk" are either corporate ceos or misinformed or just plain ignorant. but, by all means, vote against your interests, its your right as an american.
you keep telling yourself that the middle has stayed consistent. if you think that our country hasn't moved to the hard right in the past several decades then i can't help you. not that you want help.
btw- i am NOT a dem. and have never been.
Che's Lounge @ 114:
I could reply to Kos's celebratory claims on his blog on this same issue, but their ps/ moderated format is so slow.
Harold Ford is despicable, but the commenter above is correct that the Kossacks have far from completed their "crashing the gates". This morning's paper mentioned that two of the Dino Senate traitors who backed Mr. Popularity (26%) Pretzlenit's demands for increased warrantless wiretapping included Webb & McCaskill. When we elect lying hypocrites like this as an "alternative" (Webb voted to keep funding the war, too, & I'd bet McC. did as well) we've achieved nothing.
Yes, though I was tempted to buy the MSM's "he can't get elected" meme for awhile, I'd rather support someone of integrity like a Kucinich than these stooges who talk a good game, but, like Nancy Pelosi, Reid et al., will continue w/ business as usual.
Ford is WAY too religious for a humble non-godbot like me.
And the last time I saw someone go off script on Fox was Dodd on O'Reilly, and I bet he doesn't get invited back.
Nicole is right, Fox should be ignored unless they put some competant people on to provide some genuine counter arguments, not the usual paid for shills.
rebecca logan @ 113:
and their median viewer is over 60 years old. this isn't a demographic that's known as "persuadable". most people have made their political and ideological choices by that age. they've either got fox on as background noise or because it's telling them exactly what they want to hear.
myiq2xu @ 116:
oh, che, if that were only true (which i don't believe it is)
we are more corporate controlled than ever.
although, i do believe people are starting to wake up, hence the backlash from the rightwing, and their attempt to paint progressives as being anti-american. they are becoming more desperate to try to stifle dissent, and their methods are becoming more and more unhinged.
Jay - regarding your assertions, do you have any statistics to back that up?
Also, can you define the "Progressive Agenda?" Most people who claim that progressives have an agenda are Faux News fans, and believe that we want to make gay marriage and abortion mandatory, outlaw religion, and institute Marxist Socialism.
How can people be for or against an agenda if they have no clear idea what it is?
Samson- @ 122:
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crap, i'm sorry, che and myiq2xu
i don't know how i screwed up your names. my apologies.
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myiq2xu @ 123:
It wasnt my claim, it was Nicole's. And EVERYONE has an agenda...what they want to accomplish, etc... Dont be obtuse.
No Democrat should EVER voluntarily appear on Faux News for any reason!
If you appear on that sorry excuse for a network, you are only providing aid and comfort to the enemy.
ChrisF @ 19:
I did. Using the full version of STFU, by the way.
daniel romens @ 68:
Daniel, you don't get it. Ford going on Fox and being "Republican-lite" does not help the Democratic Party, it hurts it badly. Best thing, tell Ford to STFU, he doesn't speak for me.
After the Republican leadership finishes its current road to implosion, Ford will be in a perfect position to be their Obama come 2012. And he can say "I didn't change, the values of Democrats did."
Revo @ 96: "Even the recent changes in Latin America did not take place directly within the system, but were led by outside forces to oust puppet regimes."
Would you care to give any examples? My recollection -- and personal experience -- seems to be at odds with your assertion.
Throughout most of Latin America -- Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Peru, Uruguay, Bolivia, etc. -- the recent changes to democratically elected governments from military rule took place within the system; not, as you incorrectly claim, from outside.
In fact, you seem to have gotten history backwards: outside forces (the U.S. principally) were largely responsible for disturbing democracy in the region by installing the puppet regimes that you allude to in your post (Chile in 1973, for example).
Mr. Ford, don't you think you should win an election before you go giving advice to other people on how to do it?
what a butt-kissing loser.
Just a heads up, I think you posted the wrong picture.
The caption says Harold Ford, but the picture is of the Frankenstein monster...
Inca Garcilaso de la Vega @ 130:
thanks for actually asserting some historical knowledge, something most americans sadly lack. it's why we find ourselves in the mess we're in over in iraq
Jay @ 125:
You said:
I didn't say we didn't have an agenda, I asked you if you could define it, as well as supporting your assertion that 75% of the American people don't believe in it.
Who is being obtuse?
HANNITY & colmes? Why? What segment of the Democratic party are you planning to reach with that appearance Harold?
empy @ 136:
The GOP segment
Considering the fact that the DLC had no candidates in attendance at their little function, and their name has become something like bug repellant for voters... I'd say they're the ones who need to "get another message".
To Nicole: IMHO, your comments are right on, both in terms of content and tone. I fail to see any defensiveness in them, as some have respectfully suggested.
manny @ 134:
The one example I was thinking of was Chavez. In '92 he led a coup against president Perez. The coup failed, but this shock to the system is what brought about his eventual election. Now, a coup seems a bit outside the system to me. While he did get elected in '98 through conventional means I think it is fair to argue that without his "outside" the system coup attempt Venezuela would never have been ready for him in '98.
Time has passed Harold by despite him still being young. Years of beltway dinner partydom has dulled his senses. These people like Laura Schwartz, Kirsten Powers and Harold will do anything to get pats on the back by Foxists
"...methinks harold is a bit frustrated about how he's being kicked to the curb"
Good! Couldn't happen to a nicer douschbag! You know he's bitter that he isn't to the party what Barack Obama is....and do you know why? Because Barrack doesn't sell people out to appeal to the wacky, Christian bigots and nor does he brag about how Christian he is.
Ford isn't Obama because an asshole does not equal a good guy!
Revo @ 140:
Are you recommending a coup? Who will lead it, the military? Newt Gingrich? Kos?
Who will decide how our new government will look? One person, or many? Will we still have states, or will those governments be overthrown as well?
What do we do with dissenters, counter-revolutionaries, members of the former regime?
What will our monetary system be? Will we create a whole new legal system? What about existing treaties?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Darth Romney @ 142:
But they can always claim to be assholier than thou.
myiq2xu @ 143:
I am not recommending a coup. Instead I am trying to get folks to think beyond the limits of the current system. I think this thread as run its course. Thanks.
I've met Mr. Ford. He's nice enough but way too centrist. However, there is no way a "liberal" is going to get elected in TN. I would prefer that he take a real stance on our side instead of pandering to everybody. He wont get elected to the senate here anyway.
Revo @ 145:
Can you define what you mean? Or were you just sTROLLing through?
Ford was McCained. Look at him suck up now. Conservatives don't argue, they punish. Fuck them all.
Revo @ 145:
Not even a Coupe de'Ville?
Andrew Logant @ 108:
Andrew
Ah...we lost the "respectfully." How telling. Andrew, you made my point for ME. You're free to disagree with me. I had a respectful discussion with you as to why I felt the way I did. YOU internalize that as somehow defensive. So is there a reason that my giving you a respectful answer for your question comes off as defensive to you? Could it be that you have a problem with a female who "doesn't know her place?"
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