UK officer calls for US Special Forces to quit Afghan hotspot
GuardianUK: (h/t Gregory)
Tension between British and American commanders in southern Afghanistan erupted into the open yesterday as a senior UK military officer said he had asked the US to withdraw its special forces from a volatile area that was crucial in the battle against the Taliban.
British and Nato defence officials have consistently expressed concern about US tactics, notably air strikes, which kill civilians, sabotaging the battle for "hearts and minds" and infuriating Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president.
The coalition of the "We're willing, but not with you here"? Why does there seem to be so much more common sense and thoughtfulness on the part of British military tactics? I'd like to see our brass adopt some of the British forces' techniques. Sadly, this is likely the only guideline they will likely imitate:
Sweeping new guidelines barring military personnel from speaking about their service publicly have been quietly introduced by the Ministry of Defence, the Guardian has learned.
Soldiers, sailors and airforce personnel will not be able to blog, take part in surveys, speak in public, post on bulletin boards, play in multi-player computer games or send text messages or photographs without the permission of a superior if the information they use concerns matters of defence.
They want the U.S. to lose too. Ask O'Reilly.
I don’t think I have much against the war in Afghanistan. I would say that if Bush spent everything he has spent in Iraq, if he spent it in Afghanistan, it would be the middle east Palm Springs and Osama would be a
wetdry spot in the desert.I only say that with tongue partly in cheek.
I hope they have not thrown away their burkas because the Taliban ........
the junta can't do anything right. They see war as a video game with their sunday show shills pressing reset every week
Where is everybody? Oh wait..... yeah, Tucker is on and he has .... Ed Schultz. And Bill Richardson is talking badly about queers. Oh my. (I think Richardson misspoke.)
Tucker just said something fucked. Gotta turn it off. He is such a twerp.
Let's see, the Sunnis, the Shiites, the Kurds, the American Public, the Brits, the Whole Civilized World, all want us out of Iraq.
If Samoa and the Poles join in, it'll be unanimous.
(Except for 'God', and his kid, 'W')
Wait. Eddy just shot the little twerp down. I think Eddy is goin ta give the twerp a tongue lashing. I’ll stand by and report back.
But will soldiers be allowed to sell weapons to Iran?
I believe it was the British, after watching us during the early days of the invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq who commented:
"Yee-hah! is not a foreign policy."
Bush hasn't been able to defeat the Taliban or Al-Qaeda.
Weakest ... President ... in the World!
just to differentiate, I believe that the "Special forces" teams refered to in this article is identifying those "really specialized direct action teams" that answer to the national command authority here in the states.
special forces units and anybody else operating within an allies zone normally clears sectors and shares intel to deconflict operations.
Only someone "following orders from higher for thier own benefit" would screw that working relationship up.
Well the British have won a number of hearts and minds campains so they know what is needed.
The gag order on the US troops just sounds like the top brass know the occupation is lost. So is the self confdence of the leadeship. They dont trust their troops anymore.
"Turn off their mike!"
P.S. Can they bitch to someone if they have to paint 'defence'?
Mission Accomplished.
Greup @ 13:
Actually, the British troops are prohibiting their soldiers from talking about their service concernign matters of defence. The only difference is the British commanders won't summarily censor all communication. They'll actually make a sound decision based upon the facts at hand. I doubt the Pentagon will follow their lead.
Still hard to believe that our forces are still the fuck ups they were four years ago. I'm in the middle of Frank Rich's, THE GREATEST STORY EVER SOLD, right now and we couldn't do Jack then, and we still can't. You'd think that the corporate douchebag mentality would have run its course by now, but you got to hand to to bush/cheney they just don't change a bit!!!
brian @ 16:
Correction:
Wakeup @ 18:
If the Brits won't share, maybe the Canadians will talk -- They're disclosing documents on the CIA-Rendition-Syria-Prisoner abuse-Europe link.
I recall reading that in the early days of our illegal invasion and occupation of a nation that never attacked us, one member of the British government approached a member of the Iraq Provisional Authority and said:
"You must of studied all of our mistakes, because you seem determined to repeat every one of them."
We've been brainwashed into believing that "collateral damage" doesn't mean "innocent civilians". We are killing innocent civilians with our air strikes, and some people don't think that's a good idea. We are using tactics in heavily populated areas in Iraq and Afghanistan that we would never tolerate in our own country or in any Western European country. Imagine Homeland Security bombing a house your neighborhood to kill terrorists and having a dozen of your neighbors killed at the same time. That kind of behavior just doesn't win hearts and minds.
our military command seems to be full of corporate thugs. they need to move on to their contractor gigs and let competent people with some skill in tactics assume command.
#21-Carmiki
Extremely well said. Your comments are the type that deserve to be seen and heard on all the liberals' web sites. I have been beating this same drum, seemingly to no avail, around the Internet. The Guardian has it exactly right, hearts and minds will never be won as long as the United States stupidly persists in bombing the hell out of civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan, thereby violating the UN Charter, the Geneva Convention, the U.S. Constitution, and the Nuremberg Principle. The conducting of air strikes in those two nations seems to be one of the best kept secrets in this country as that story has received almost no mention at all by the mainstream media [not even by that quasi liberal Keith Olbermann and his so-called military experts].
Ironically, I ordered today one of the most moving and still relevant films that I had ever seen while in college and that is the 1974 Oscar winning documentary Hearts and Minds, which looked at the physical and psychological toll that the Vietnam War had taken on both Americans and the Vietnamese people while also hearing from those from the American government [such as Walt Rostow] who still claimed in the film that the Vietnam War was worth waging, which ended killing upwards of an astonishing 2 to 3 million Vietnamese people. Undoubtedly, an Iraqi and Afghani version of this film will be made in the future, demonstrating again how might does not make right.
Carmikl @ 21:
You think we could have learned this from Vietnam. Oh yeah, our commander-in-chief was engaged in too many "youthful indiscretions" during Vietnam to get that lesson.
We need Wesley Clark to take this over.
The War in Afghanistan could become worse as Al Qaeda and the Taliban are hiding in Mountain areas so secluded near Pakistan's border the tribes live by their own laws. Should the US, UK or any other NATO member try to go after Al Qaeda and the Taliban in those areas it could become worse than the USSR's Military campaign.
GIs keep bombing the s*** out of the taliban. Good for the US!!!
I know how everybody feels about IRAQ but I dont think our navy seals, delta force are going to be asking the air forces to bomb a certain region just for the hell of it. I support our troops anywhere but specially in Afghanistan where they are fighting for us. GO GIs!!!
What is up with you people? You call yourselves progressives and yet you support the war in Afghanistan? Haven't you been following the public comments of British officers and troops about what a mess the Brits, Americans and NATO are making in that country? Why do you think that Gordon Brown is silencing them? Winning hearts and minds? Bollocks!
The war in Afghanistan is just another reprise of the old imperialist game of "Contain the Russian Bear" and "Secure the Arc of Instability", blah, blah, blah. Since invading the country NATO and the U.S. have succeeded in... well, nothing at all. Opium production is at record highs, civilians are being killed in appalling numbers, government corruption is rampant, and NGO's are doing fuck all to help the situation. The sooner all these Western mofos get the hell out of the country the better off ordinary Aghans will be. Nothing the Taliban ever did could compare to the ruin that NATO is bringing.
C'mon progressives, anti-imperialism needs to be the cornerstone of your politics.
Greup @ 13:
Well put, and you beat me to it. Their own experience in Iraq, and in India, gives them a different perspective than the present administration, which resolutely refuses to learn anything from even our own past. I was too young to be aware of our misadventure in Vietnam, but I've still managed to pick up some insight in the intervening years, and I'm none too sharp.
I don't know why this just occurred to me, but they probably did learn the lessons of Vietnam, and then arrogantly thought they could do better. That is probably not news to anybody else, but now I'm even more depressed than I was 5 minutes ago.
Mr. Pelicano at #27
Very well said. My post at # 23 basically echo what you have written.
jr @ 4:
The Junta! That's what M.S. Arnoni used to call the LBJ Gang in his magazine, "The Minority of One."
These freaks can't even get along with their own blood brothers, the British.
I would say something but #CHOKE, GAG, GASP, MY GOVERNMENT WON'T LET ME.
THEY OWN ME. signed, US Serviceman.
well. really we Canadians were the ones that showed the brits how to do it in the first place, and gee respecting the local citizens of a country gets you this type of local support
======
below from
http://www.macleans.ca/canada/wire/article.jsp?content=n060459A
Spoken by Assadullah Khalid, the Governor of Kandahar:
Chaos created by international troops roaring through Kandahar City on military convoys needs to be reigned in, Afghan elders said Tuesday, and they're counting on Canada's military leadership to do the job.
The elders applauded Canadian efforts to make connections with civilians on the ground, such as a simple yet profound gesture to honour the families of two Afghans killed by coalition troops.
Canadian troops weren't involved in the men's deaths earlier this month. But a presentation made by Canadian soldiers to compensate their families won the respect of several local elders who say Canada should teach other international forces to respect Afghan customs.
"We know that when a suicide bomb hits a Canadian convoy, the Canadians aren't going to start shooting at everyone on the streets," said Kandahar's provincial governor Asadullah Khalid.
"But we must be able to say that of other forces as well."
...
"We feel that Canadian forces are different than other forces," said Khalid, "and the issue we have right now is to work with you and with international troops to find a solution to this problem."
--
And from the Afghan Minister of Rural Rehabilitation and Development, Mohammad Efhan Zia:
"Because of Canadian financial assistance I've been able to start this massive development initiative in the province of Kandahar," he said.
"Canada is helping the government of Afghanistan in the area of security, they are making these efforts on the request of our government and on the request of the people of Kandahar for improving the security situation. They are not taking unilateral decisions here in the country."
http://www.macleans.ca/canada/wire/article.jsp?content=n060459A
It seems that militarily, American strategy is "hit 'em hard with all you got". It doesn't matter how many civilians get in the way. Civilians are there to be trampled on, or become collateral damage in the so called "war on terrorism."
It seems that many, if not most, among your posters who oppose the war in Iraq, are perfectly fine with the war in Afghanistan, and Barack Obama goes as far as saying that he'd even authorize military strikes based on "actionable intelligence" in Pakistan. Apparently American believe that Afghanistan is directly connected with the events of 9/11,
because America was attacked by Al Qaida, who were sheltered by the Taliban in Afghanistan. Americans believe that these events originated in, and were possibly even directly controlled by Osama bin Laden from a cave in Afghanistan.
How do you know this is true? Who told you this story? Have you ever seen any real evidence that America was attacked by Al Qaida on 9/11? What caused buildings 1, 2, and 7 to collapse practically in freefall? What principle of physics explains it?
Johnny @ 25:
Now here is a person who KNOWS!! Most Americans are "history illiterate" and don't even know what happened to the former USSR military from 1979 to 1989 in Afghanistan. The Rooskies got their asses kicked in that 10 year mess and a lot of the aircraft they lost were shot down with surface-to-air missiles supplied by the U.S. ANY military that tries to take Afghanistan will suffer the same monumental defeat! AND, let us not forget that it was Osama who was a mujahadeen leader during the Soviet-Afghan war. Why hasn't Bush captured him? This 9/11 it will be six years since the attack. SO, MR. BUSH---WHERE IS BINLADEN and WHY HAVEN'T YOU BROUGHT HIM TO JUSTICE???
Mr Pelicano @ 27:
WELL SAID, BROTHER, WELL SAID! Too bad there aren't more people with your laser insight into what is really going on in Afghanistan. AND, you are absolutely right about "progressives" being all wrong about Afghanistan. My guess is that some are just STUPID and IGNORANT about what happened in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion---1979-1989. The Soviets got their asses kicked and, after losing at least 50,000 troops, had to pack up and go home in defeat. The IDIOTS of this world have forgotten (never knew?) that HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF!
babalooey @ 26:
YOU appear to be supremely IGNORANT, PAL. Do you live in Crawford? Did you know that BUSH hosted Taliban leaders at his ranch in Crawford? Bet YOU never spent a day in our military. Are you volunteering to go to Iraq or Afghanistan? Well, how about it? OR, ARE YOU SOME KIND OF CHICKENHAWK??? Been listening to draft dodgers like Druggie Lush Limpbaugh, O'Leilly, Head-in-fanny-Hannity, "ex" drug addict Beck, etc.? My guess? That's all you listen to. "Go get 'em, GI's" ----YEP, that's your "battle cry", as long as it isn't YOUR ASS or someone in your family's ass on the line!
Captain Kangaroo @ 1:
WHY WOULD YOU ASK THAT TOTAL ASSHOLE O'LEILLY ANYTHING? The only people who believe anything that paid-off, propaganda poodle of the Neo-Fascists are people who (1) have an I.Q. lower than a parakeet (2) are Neo-Fascists themselves and/or (3) are too stupid to know a GIANT PHONY like O'Leilly when they see/ hear one. So, pal, which one is it?
Site Monitor: It's (4) None of the above. It's sarcasm. Take it down a notch, please. No flame wars over this.
"We who are about to die salute you!" (Middle finger salute.)
A.Political @ 34:
Zeitgeist Meets Poltergeist
It'll slay the audience.
Mr Pelicano @ 27:
We already have Bollocks here, Sandra.
This is one more example of how great our military leadership is. They cannot manage to secure the road from Baghdad to the airport 5 years later, they can't manage to win the hearts and minds of the Afghans, they can't manage to secure the capital of Iraq, but they can manage to alienate our biggest surporter in this fiasco, and all while leading the greatest military on earth.
How is it that the greatest military on earth can defeat Hitler, Mussolini, and Japan all at the same time in less than 4 years but can't lead a far superior military to subdue and hold 50 cities and towns?
Must be that great leadership.
Comments are closed on this entry