Frum must not read blogs
It looks like the most talked-about media piece of the day is David Frum’s take on Karl Rove’s White House tenure. Frum, a former Bush speechwriter, argues, relatively persuasively, that Rove crafted a White House political strategy that was predicated on helping Republicans, instead of helping the country. That’s true, of course, but anyone who’s been paying attention the last six years already knew that.
More importantly, Frum offers this take on, well, us.
I notice that much of the Democratic party, and especially its activist netroots, has decided that the way to beat Rove Republicanism is by emulating it. They are practicing the politics of polarization; they are elevating “framing” above policy; they have decided that winning the next election by any means is all that matters — and never mind what happens on the day after that.
Does Frum pay any attention to politics at all? Stop by any of the leading progressive blogs and you’ll see ample discussion of substance, policy, and legislation. In general, the netroots are practically obsessed with what happens “the day after” the election. Indeed, most the online discussion recently hasn’t elevated framing above policy, it’s done the opposite — how can Dems make strides on adding safeguards to warrantless surveillance programs? On restoring habeas? On affecting war policy? On investing in infrastructure?
If Frum wants to suggest Rove believed that “winning the next election by any means is all that matters,” I’d agree with him. But the netroots? Sounds like projection to me.
Send the ignoramus back to Canada. People that come here on VISAs should have skills unavailable in the work force. The White House could've found a million stooges to write the crap he did to sell Bush and his war.
Can't believe the amount of press Rove is getting. Is he really all that fricking impressive? Please enlighten me! Apart from being the architect of the single worse US foreign policy disaster in ALL of US history what the hell else has this porker done that warrants so much damn attention!? I'm getting a little sick and tired of this!
After so many years of bullshit from Bush and his corrupt cronies, it's a wonder anyone pays attention to anything they have to say about anything. It's all spin, all the time. Meanwhile, Bush takes another belligerent step toward Iran. Folks, it's about time for us to get out the pitchforks and torches . . .
I'm glad we don't try to emulate Rove and company. I mean, just last week, didn't a lot of us come down hard on the guy who ambushed O'Reilly at his house, with Keith Olberman agreeing that he went too far?
Bugs @ 3:
You know as well as I do that once the US invades Iran the american people won't do one damn thing except bitch and whine and bleat like the fucking sheeple they are! And, the real tragic part is that Iran IS NOT Iraq! The Iranians WILL respond in spades and the US will suddenly find itself holding its own ass in its hands! Mark my words.
It's interesting that the last trick in the Republican bag is to blame Dems and Progressives for the sins that they themselves commit. Somehow by pointing the false finger at us takes the spotlight off of them. We have to keep shouting "Hypocrisy!" every time they do it.
Keep up the good fight.
You can't really blame Frum for failing to acknowledge substance, policy, and legislation on the leftwing blogs. Neoconservatives have lived so far from substance, policy, and legislation for so long now that they don't even recognise it anymore.
They're used to outsourcing blame for what they did or are about to do onto the mark/victim. Rove 101.
How many times have we seen some hypocritical wingnut bounce off walls complaining that "the enemy" did by a fraction what the Repugs did a thousand times over, egregiously and publicly.
Just one outrageous example:
Private consensual (Dem) presidential hummer gets years of continual glaring coverage and obsessive mentions.
Self-advertising gay hooker Jeff Gannon disguises himself as a reporter to slo-pitch to the President and get waved past security -- during a supposed War on Terror that requires suspension of civil rights for all the land -- into the innermost sanctuary of the White House. Everyone in the media knows about this but anyone who brings it up is smacked down by his/her own peers out of fear of retaliation by the despotic thugs in the Republican Palace.
The blogs are the result of three things. First, there is the polarization between the left and the right that has become more prominent in the last 20-30 years. Second, there is the feeling by many in the Democratic Party that the Party has abandoned its strengths without any positive effect. And third, you can't leave out the fact that technology has finally allowed people to have a say, a little bit of free speech. So it would be natural for the blogs to criticize the right and be disappointed with the left.
If Frum had a point we'd all be supporting Hillary and damn the torpedoes. The wariness with which her candidacy is greeted by the netroots gives a strong indication that winning isn't all that matters. What comes next does.
I just don't think these conservatives (or even the DLC types) understand what is going on when a multitude of voices come at them. They're so used to top-down megaphone pronouncements from their leaders telling them what and how to think.
What Frum means is that the netroots are not following his advice, which in his mind is tantamount to giving in to every worst impulse imaginable.
By the way, now that we're not following his advice, the Democrats did NOT lose Congress for the first time since 1994, and if the Democrats win the presidency it will win it outright without needing Ross Perot to destroy George Bush Sr's conservative cred.
These delusional freaks think Democrats were 'winning' before GWB Jr. No, they're starting to win now -- and not just elections, but the battle of ideas.
The crazy freak reactionary Reagan counter-revolution has finally died out, killed by Bush Jr. (Reagan II) and Karl Rove, and the Reagan right's 30 year reign of batsh*t right wing lunacy is dying with it.
Steve,
WE don't elevate framing above policy, but the DLC definitely does.
Just watch the debates with a critical eye, Hillary/Obama/Edwards are all triangulating.
Watch how they vote, they did after all just GIVE the Pretzledent what he wanted with the PAA, even made his past crimes legal retroactively.
If they really cared Habeas Corpus would be restored already, the WH would not be able to spy anymore and the Executive office would have articles of impeachment thrown at ALL of them. That IS after all why we pt them in charge this time around.
So Frum is correct, the Democrats (you and I don't count in that equation, we're just the voters) most definitely do put framing and triangulation above sound policy.
Try not to take it personally, we just don't count is all. Except on election day or when fund raising for it of course.
I would like to see a list of the blogs he reads daily. Which ones is he basing his judgment on exactly.
I totally agree with Frum on this. When the "Netroots" aren't coping and pasting Content from the New York Times and other Content providers, all you are left is with back and forth High School Style gossip and personal attacks on O'Reilly/Coulter etc. (Political TMZ). Without the YouTube videos you'd be nothing but another website and it would be back to playing dungeons and dragons for all of Youse.
This comment will probably be erased and I will be called a troll. But thats the reality kiddies. CL is a fun site for drivel, don't take yourself so seriously. Oh, here's a comment below that will surely get me booted.
Face it! All you've got is that Closeted Queer Kos, (I mean look at his gracefully moves, his lisp, the way he rolls his eyes) he should following the example of that Queen McGreevy and just come out.
FRUMS APPRENTICE @ 14:
Dude! Could you just go find some guy's c*** to suck and get over it? Or do we have to wait and hear about how you, another Republican straight upstanding Christian male, was arrested for offering to pay to blow a stranger in a public restroom?
Frum gets many things wrong in his op-ed piece. Still blinded by right -wing fallacies, he states that Republicans are the party of the middle class, while Democrats have the top and bottom. He is completely wrong.
The Republican party has shown nothing but contempt for the middle and lower classes n this country. Their politics aim to exploit the lower class and bleed the middle as they enrich and enoble the upperclass.
And wedge politics are a real tool of the Rovian era. The wedge that Republicans deployed in 2004 was between Kerry and those that said they prized the military. But instead of embracing a war hero, they voted for a draft dodger.
It is always interesting to read about a Republican or former Bushie attacking one of their own, but they always embed self serving tripe when they do.
The truth of the blogosphere is that you can find an adequate supply of comments to support any conclusion you want about the commenters. There are comments that would support the position Frum espouses, just as there are comments that would refute it. That is precisely the tack that O'Reilly took in smearing Daily Kos--look at the comments and confuse them with the blog.
appnzllr @ 9:
I wholeheartedly agree with your second point. While I believe that Bill Clinton was an excellent President, he became President by actually USING the "compassionate conservative" playbook of the GOP. One can argue that he played to the middle and won, and understand that the middle has shifted to the right.
However, back to your point, the pendulum has swung so far to the right over the last 6 years, that I believe that the Democratic Party is better served by playing to it's most liberal roots. Now, I know what the GOP response will be...race baiting, soft on war...yada yada yada. What the Dem Party should do, and I believe IS trying to do but doing it half heartedly, is play to working people, play on real education reform, play on healthcare for MIDDLE Americans, and at the same time talk about foreign policy from an ADULT perspective. They should hammer the GOP strategy on foreign policy as immature, reactive and not in the best long term interest of the country.
May I please ask again---- we're all aware of the curse that is the current Repug Party. The question is does anyone seriously believe that ANY member (from the Whore House on down!) will be held accountable? Seriously----
Dude! I'm a straight Minority Liberal Progressive and proud. Just speaking the truth. You're the troubled soul, using last resort verbal tactics of a wounded girl friend and talking about male genitalia.
I'd say it's less likely that Frum is projecting and more likely that he's putting out a lie that will be repeated over and over until it becomes 'fact'.
FRUMS APPRENTICE @ 20:
Okay, sure, whatever you say, you're a strong, vibrant, heterosexual, who just happens to be obsessed with closely observing males' every last little movement and physiognomy for any likelihood that they're gay. Gosh, you sound so butch!
What do you want from these flatulent fatheads? They can't argue the points so they attack the medium.
The socially retard objective moralists in this country get on their knees and face whichever way the hot air is blowing 5 times a day.
Frum's basic problem is that he sees everything in Democrat-Republican terms. If one disapproves of Bush and Rove, one must be a partisan Democrat...otherwise, a partisan Republican. That's Inside-the-Beltway thinking at its worst.
What Frum is doing is acknowledgeing that Rove was a narrow partisan (duh!), and says that Democrats will hurt themselves by doing likewise. But one doesn't have to be a Democrat to detest Rove. One only needs to put the country's welfare ahead of party loyalty and monetary greed...most people outside the Beltway already do that, but hardly anyone in Washington does.
it's always the republicans who turn a blind eye to any crimes or wrong doing by their own party while trying to magnify any crimes or wrong doing by the other party. Liberal America is very concerned about the job performance of their own party as well as the other party, Liberal America wants the best for our country and our citizens and Liberal America wants leaders who only get a BJ and not leaders who steal the treasury, at the same time conservative America wants only for themselves, they will eat their own and they have no real love for our country or our citizens. These are the Right To Lifers who believe that some people don't have a right to life...these are the people who will fight for your until the day you are born and then you won't hear from them again until they need you to fight in their oil war or if you are on your death bed and they can make a good show of it, then you're just right for conservative America.
These people should be ashamed of themselves but you would need a moral compass to even know what shame was...
well if frum thinks that all the netroots want is to elect democrats at any cost, he certainly isn't reading my blog
but then, apparently no one else is either.
I think he makes a fair comment and one that Dems should learn from.
It's alright for regular bloggers to say what really goes on on the inside but Frum is telling you how it looks from the outside. And he's right. Equally important as how things ARE is how things are PERCEIVED. Frum is telling you how things are perceived by a reasonable thinking non-Democrat.... exactly the kind of person you want to win over.
You should take his observations on board rather than attacking him for them while preaching to the choir. Constructive criticism. ;)
Thr right can do two things well: lie and project. But I repeat myself.
El Cid @ 11:
well that, of course, is the important thing.
too many people treat politics like professional sports. all they care about is whether the team wearing their home town mascot wins. but the opposite is true of the left side of the blogsphere, as far as i can see. you didn't see many on the left screaming "witch-hunt!" when bundles of cash were found in rep johnson's freezer.
on the other hand, if a body were found in cheney's man-sized safe the freepers would likely claim national security, executive privilege, and that clinton put it there.
Frum has quickly become as obsolete as Rahm Emanuel, James Carville and the rest of the DLC bunch.
Equally important as how things ARE is how things are PERCEIVED. Frum is telling you how things are perceived by a reasonable thinking non-Democrat….
no, frum is telling a non-democrat how he should perceive things. do you really think he's trying to offer some helpful advice? no, he is advancing talking points to create a perception without any evidence and totally at odds with the facts.
it's just a pronouncement. and it puts us in the defensive position of scrambling to prove it isn't true - which of course reinforces the perception.
Dahgrostab’ph-r-i (@25):
The Republican party *IS* the Matrix! We're trapped in a dream world where their only goal is to breed more Christian Soldiers to feed the Oil Making War Machine. They provide us with Info-tainment, Fast Food, and SUV's so we forget that we are slaves to their empire.
Doughy Neocon Frum pulls one right out of Rove's playbook. Falsely accuse others of what you are guilty of.
We can't actually get any Dems to govern. We don't have any.
When you bend over for the supplemental, when you bend over for the rape of FISA and the constitution, when you don't stop the destruction of our country and way of life by any and all means - you're not a democrat. You are a turncoat - "Republican Lite".
Flamethrower @ 1:
PLEASE DON'T send him back to my country. The US can keep him. And should. After all, 'twas US neocon ideology that "created" him. His late mother (a broadcaster) wasn't nearly so right-wing. Keep him, I'm begging you.
Of course Frum isn't reading blogs or paying attention -- he's busy acting as a puppet for the latest GOP meme - the liberal netroots are the sons of Karl but in a bad way.
Now can we stop the navel-gazing this column was meant to provoke and start focusing on keeping this hell-bent admnistration out of Iran?
gbear @ 21:
Exactly, because he's simply a neocon propagandist.
Frum says early in his essay that people should concern themselves with "what does the nation need." There he's being disingenuous. He's a straight-up propagandist, always has been. "What does the nation need" has never been a major concern of his.
chimp and his gang are so pissed off that they can't control the internet like they control MSM.
To them hyperlinks are a bitch.
I think his mother rolls in her grave everytime nancy-boy opens his yap about how great Bush is.
the connies are lazy and just repeat the same talking points over and over again. Cable news thinks they are "being fair" by letting the Frumies lie
Liberal blog sites have the most diverse opinions you can find. The fact that the vast majority know and express the fact that Bush & Co. are evildoers doesn't change the fact that netroots folks are diverse and substantive. Frum's an idiot.
I'd like to propose a new perjorative:
Frum-bag.
-GSD
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 38:
Give them time. They will eventually control it an we will be shut down. :( :( :( :( :(
This is the new tactic of the GOP strategists. They are trying to get into the media as early as possible to label the democratic strategy as division because they know that their old tactic is about to be used against them. For Democrats, however, it is merely a campaign tactic. It is not a way of life like it is for the GOP. The reality is that the GOP may be very effective at using this tactic to win elections, but once in office they have little ability to actually govern.
During the 90's, the GOP labeled Bill Clinton as a "perpetual campaigner" who didn't know how to govern. That his clearly been proven to be a lie which is more applicable to their candidates than the Democratic party.
Winning the next election is the most important thing facing the netroots and the Democratic Party right now.
So that the day afterwards we can start restoring and repairing our country after years of GOP neglect and abuse.
Winning is not the goal, it is the means to the goal. The goal is what makes winning matter.
Brilliantly stated Steve.
What happens the next day is more important than who wins the election. I would even vote for a Republican if he or she was the "chosen" front runner and was delivering the message that Dennis Kucinich was delivering. Instead we will probably have to choose between a Democratic or Republican corporatist. Some choice.
Barnes writes, about us:
" . . . they are elevating “framing” above policy;"
What everybody seems to be missing is the "awe" displayed over Karl, but when we are accused of using the same tactics, there is a clear negative connotation. It's genius when Rove does it. When we do it, it's a bad thing. The hypocracy runs so deep they are not even aware of it any more.
Frum is another neo-con likudnik, a traitor I suppose if he as acquired U.S. citizenship. He co-authored a book with Israeli spy Richard Perle. Seymour Hersh was the first to reveal Perle's spying for Israel in his biography of Henry Kissinger. The relevant passages can also be found in The Atlantic from around 1980-82.
Later, Congressman Paul Findley also told about Perle's spying for Israel in his book. Apparently likudnik Perle has never attacked the two authors.
dirk gently @ 31:
If that's the case, then you're now playing his game by going on the defensive. Don't take it so personally. Picking out one little thing and blowing it out of all proportion is O'Reilly's schtick. No-one wants to turn out like that.
Progressives should not internalise the attack tactics of the radical right and instead should be the group that gives credit where due.
Steve said that apart from those lines, it was a pretty good article - which it was. This guy could be an ally to you. Why make an enemy out of him?
Well, at least the NY Times was honest enough to mention that Mr. Frum is a flack for the American Enterprise Institute. He's long been a columnist for the National Post in Canada (think Fox News in print and you get the idea). However, the closest the National Post has come to revealing his links to the AEI is listing an email address at the end of his columns at aei.org.
Anyone who's been paying attention will not be surprised by the Establishment's tactics. "Unity" and "bipartisanship" are fine when the Republicans don't control the House or the Senate. Translated: as long as the Democrats don't upset the power structure, everything's ok.
When the Democrats claim that they can't get legislation passed because of the opposition they're lying. If the Dems can't pass legislation, it's because some of their own members are voting with the Republicans. THAT is the problem.
There is no better analysis than that of the late Bill Hicks (comedian, Texas). (paraphrased from Politics in America, off "Rant in E-minor")
"Here's politics in America: 'I believe the puppet on the left holds my views.' 'I believe the puppet on the right holds my views. Hey, there's only one guy holding up both puppets.' Go back to bed America, your government is in control."
i have limited html skills.
how do i do David Frum = [picture of an ass]?
and i mean a pair of buttcheeks, not the donkey.
Oh, man. David Fucking Frum.
Same guy who practically had a nervous breakdown about 6 months ago, when he travelled to Iraq and finally opened his eyes to the fact that Bush & Co had fucked up the war, and US foreign policy, beyond any hope of redemption.
Shortly afterward, his NRO colum changed course away from his rabid daily kneejerk defense of the indefensible. The blinkered bias is still there, but Little David now devotes extensive column-inches to reviews of classic novels and works of history. The 36th and latest installment of 'David's Bookshelf' is a review of "Ninety Three", an obscure political novel by Victor Hugo.
It appears that the failure of Neocon foreign policy, the user manual for which Frum helped write back in the day when Bush was "The Right Man" (the title of Frum's embarrassing Bush wank), has driven him into his study to reconnect with the basic principles of Western society.
Read on, David. You have a lot of deprogramming ahead of you, if you are open to it - which I doubt.
Whenever the right is caught being undeniably craven, it is vitally important to convince the public that the left is just as bad, if not worse. Sadly, they are very successful at this line of propaganda, at least partially because the media is such a uniform echo chamber these days. Thus the (typically addled and misinformed) public is left convinced all political movements are equally corrupt and rotten.
And, in a pinch, that serves just as well as convincing them to vote against their own interests. If you can't fool the public, at the very least confuse and demoralize them.
Re comment no 1. This little shit is a landed U.S. immigrant and there is no way were taking him back to Canada. The really odd thing about Frum is that his mother was a woman of the highest integrity, an incisive interviewer and a universally admired television journalist up here in the Great White North. Some clips of Barbara Frum are available on YouTube. This just goes to show you that the apple sometimes falls about as far from the tree as it can get.
You're correct on the content of the netroots community. Frum's correct about the Democratic Party's tactics, sadly. Netroots and the democratic party at best are friends of convenience. They're not synonymous. Given the votes on shredding the 4th amendment...it's clear the Dems are biding their time for their slot at the trough of power.
bibimimi @ 51:
www.gayboysinbondage.fake
So Frum's arguement is that we should vote Republican because the netroots also engage in "framing." But policy has always been at the foundation of discussions.
It's difficult to expose the all-pervasive frame job of the vast right wing conspiracy without mentioning framing. Apparently Frum thinks it's not fair unless we win the rhetorical war without using rhetorical tools. He's really strict!
Where's he frum?
Rove had nothing to do with the Repigs winnings--Real reason was the Demoos playing dead.
a classic right out of the rove playbook .....always attach your negative behavior to your opponent so the ill feeling towards such behavior get directed to your opponent and not you. the repubes have been doing this very thing for years now.
It's complete projection. Dems need to get smarter on the politics, but they've always been much better on the substance. But then, Frum is a partisan hack and has never possessed much wattage.
And how many campaigns has Frum successfully managed? That's right, 0! None! Nada! including John Kerry's 2004 "Let them walk all over me while I go windsurfing" tactic! Frum must be afraid the Dems might find a winning formula.
Comments are closed on this entry