from Blast Off! (click image for full size):
Perhaps you've heard of the Political Compass website, where you can take a test that places you on a grid based on the degree to which you are "left" or "right" on the economic scale as well as how socially libertarian or authoritarian you are... Anyway, thanks to a recent article in London's TimesOnline, we can see how the 2008 U.S. presidential candidates fit on the grid.
Barrett: Walker is a Rockstar for the Tea Party and Billionaires
Bill Maher Takes a Shot at the Birthers With Parody on Romney's 'Wiferism' Scandal
Santorum: I Didn't Say 'Black People,' I Said 'Blah People'
Ed Schultz Brings National Attention to Florida Voter Roll Purge |
Bill Maher Takes a Shot at the Birthers With Parody on Romney's 'Wiferism' Scandal |
| Plays: 536 Downloads: 48 | |
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Tucker Carlson: Reporters Have 'Slavish, Dog-Like Loyalty' to Obama |
| Plays: 286 Downloads: 134 | |
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Missouri Taxpayers Fund 24-Hour Security Camera for Limbaugh Statue |
| Plays: 348 Downloads: 72 | |
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Ed Schultz Brings National Attention to Florida Voter Roll Purge |
| Plays: 227 Downloads: 75 | |
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Arizona Congressional Candidate 'Pulls a Coffman' |
| Plays: 247 Downloads: 23 |
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Bill Maher Knocks Liberty University: It Cheapens My Degree From a Real School |
| Plays: 2572 Downloads: 208 | |
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Compassionate Conservatism: Romney Meets Medical Marijuana Patient |
| Plays: 2237 Downloads: 245 | |
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Stockman: Romney Can't Say He Learned How to Create Jobs in the Leveraged Buyout Business |
| Plays: 2264 Downloads: 165 | |
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Krugman: Romney's Business Career is Fair Game |
| Plays: 1737 Downloads: 151 | |
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Arizona Congressional Candidate 'Pulls a Coffman' |
| Plays: 1656 Downloads: 147 |
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NY Fox 5 Crew Pepper Sprayed And Assaulted By NYPD |
| Plays: 8763 Downloads: 142 | |
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Frum: Fox News Creates an 'Alternative Knowledge System' |
| Plays: 4854 Downloads: 10 | |
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President Obama and AZ Gov. Jan Brewer Share Testy Exchange at Phoenix Airport |
| Plays: 3616 Downloads: 138 | |
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Fmr. McCain Aide on 'Game Change': Palin Presidency 'Frightens Me' |
| Plays: 3607 Downloads: 112 | |
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#CNNDebate: Mitt Romney Fires Newt Gingrich |
| Plays: 3290 Downloads: 78 |
There it is.
So much for anti-autoritarianism.
I guess anarchy does not rule.
I keep pulling for Kucinich...
Heck of a job DLC. That is so scary!
Pull him further left. He's gettin thirsty and he's about to reach for the kool-aid.
So that's why the last three pop-quizzes I took started out: Kucinich, Gravel, Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Richardson.
Either I'm consistent or they are...
Edwards scares them more than Hillary.
Yes. Blue gal, if you were a guy, I'd want to have your baby. I mean my eggs will be hittin' 40 this month but anyhoo.... Jon Stewart just gave the greatest smack down to a neo con, EVAH! And he did it with such grace, style, gentleness and respect for an opponent. It was so beautiful. I was standing and cheering. Yes, my kids were frightened.
I'm way in the lower left corner, all alone, sniff.
Still, I think this representation is rather accurate.
I look forward to seeing TDS on the site tomorrow...
He ripped the author of Cheney's new biography a new one.
I was thinking of Mitt being semi-sane despite the holy underwear, and a corrupt tool of the special interests.....he's the biggest fucking fascist of all, even over Rudi.....course that goes in with the SUBORDINATION to religion and all that.
Glad to see my guy John E. lower and lefter than any of the other republican lites I mean democrats. Wish we could get a low, left quadrant into a position to be electable but.....
V V
perhaps rove got his republican majority afterall.
I call bullshit on putting Ron Paul in the right quadrant, if anything he should be the only candidate in the liberitarian quadrant.
Petty will support troop cuts. Congress is as unpopular as the Prez. The army has the worst suicide rate in over 25 years.
I don't buy the grid. I don't think it accurately reflects Edwards or Ron Paul, just for starters. I won't argue the Republican horde or Hillary.
I'm a little disturbed to see Barak as high as he is, and somewhat happy to see Hillary as low as she is, although that's a pretty big nasty veer to the right that she has.
I'm low left quadrant too, hangin out with Ghandi and MLK.
V V
I think Dennis Kucinich should be moved a few notches towards authoritarian because of his (position on gun control)...
Ron Paul even though he is pro life....should probably be a little more towards center....
Obama.....move him farther right...
Hillary....more authoritarian
even though the british drive on the wrong side and see things askewed ...
seems to be a reasonably accurate graph...
LibertyLover @ 7:
I agree
I'd like to see that graph with another dimension... over time how did the candidates shift...
Dan @ 19:
Bravo!
> I think Dennis Kucinich should be moved a few notches towards authoritarian because of his (position on gun control)…
Some folk identify themselves as right-wing trolls, by the position they take. They always seem to *use* the First amendment to only think or talk about the Second amendment.
So when is Tom Tancredo going to experience a helium flash, balloon to millions of times his current size, and engulf his satellites? I mean, he's pretty far in the upper right there.
This is a Hertzsprung-Russel diagram, right?
PS: However I do note that Ron Paul is on his way to being a white dwarf.
I avoid taking these things like the plague.
No matter how I answer them I always end up to the right of Mao, Stalin and Nixon.
:-(
Go figure....
~Nyc
Pretty depressing spread.
I think Ron Paul is exactly where he should be because of his position on abortion rights.
It's no big surprise that the Dems are where they are, although John Edwards probably ought to be further left.
I don't really want to fight in the revolution -- too damned old -- but I guess if I have to, I have to.
Umm, Times of London is a Murdoch paper.
Seems like all we have heard from is the media, and who is taking the lead. Until I see an idependent poll, I am ignoring the media, and rightfully so, because it has been a long while since the media been right about anything.
It's a game, folks, this left/right good bad crap; look for the folks pulling the strings.
Democracy was set up as a game to entertain the masses whilst the real power implement what they want. read or listen to Alan Watt , www.cutting throughthematrix.com
We're being gamed.
-5,-8
Takin' it to the man!
Kucinich!!!!!!!!!
Any doubts?
Any questions?
Or, are you willing to settle for more of the same?
Peace!
Those who watched The Daily Show tonight - Jon gets better every night and tonight he knocked it out of the park. Hays had no defense and he knew it.
No way that grid is accurate.
Thinker @ 31:
Do you want entertainment, or substance? Do you think Jon will answer the ultimate questions of just what the hell is going on? He can entertainingly yabber on and attack Cheney's latest outrage but, just what is going on? Go deeper.
You're being gamed.
Thinker @ 31:
Sorry Thinker, beat 'cha to it. Watching TDS while bloggin' at C&L's is like Margeret Cho saying having sex while watching porn is like watching the cooking channel while eating...BAM! If that doesn't make sense, blame the Syrah.
Yeah, Kucinich is the one I should be voting for. I used to like Edwards, but I've noticed a shift to the right with him.
Good God, I don't think Kucinich has a chance.
With the exception of him, all of the others bring the promise of infinite mediocrity.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html
The World's Smallest Political Quiz is the site I was familiar with. I hadn't thought of plugging the candidates into it. It works pretty closely for me. I'm in Kucinich's neighborhood.
this is normally past my posting hours, but i was wondering if in the world of C&L anyone could help me
my parents are in Lima, Peru right now and i am desperately trying to get info. all the news services are pulling from similar wire services. does anyone know of a way to get realtime info on the earthquake?
i know i am probably grasping at straws, but, like i said, i am desperate
Very interesting how far all the candidates seem to be shifted toward "authoritarian"..
....yet NONE appear to be left wing.
Sorry Billy, looks like LEFTY nazis aren't running this year.
It is just way too early to focus SO much attention on polls and grids that don't reflect how these candidates have shifted with regards to an ever changing world and political climate. Take the debates for example, each of the candidates are asked questions about major issues, but only get a couple of minutes or 30 seconds to respond. Do we really want the next president to make decisions about such complex issues in this manner? The way the debates are set up does us all a disservice as well as polls because often reinforce the B.S. that the TV media spits out. Many of the polls aren't even scientific. Suppose a candidate changes their mind on an issue due to new information they learn about. (I am not talking about hot button issues such as abortion here.) Rather than consider the candidates ability to possilby grow throughout the campaign, they are immediately labeled a "flip-flopper". Damn, talk about carpal tunnel flair up for just typing that damn term!
Guess I'm voting for Gravel.
Samson- @ 37:
\
Try Googling "online radio Lima Peru"...
Samson- @ 37:
geez samson, no idea. I'm thinking of you. I'm sorry.
heres where I am..
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.28
a little south of mike gravel i guess. lol
Vote up Fox entries
http://wired.reddit.com/wikidgame
http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.gif
Just about every international leader, including liberal ones in Europe, is on the Authoritarian-Right quadrant, so I'm not surprised.
colorful and useless. that chart based on an arbitrarily derived formula is about as meaningful as a relationship quiz in cosmopolitan magazine.
Samson, here is a page that offer peru tv
http://wwitv.com/portal.htm?http://wwitv.com/television/index.html?http:...
It looks like the streams are full on some of them. I typed peru tv into google-maybe a closer country has the news.
I remember doing one of those test thingies. I was pleased to apparently lie on the same axis as Gandhi, albeit a little closer to the centre. Hooray!
Just Me @ 41:
Oh yeah, good advice. Try (Mac) iTunes or the PC equivalent to get access to web radio. From that, you could tune in live to pretty much anywhere. Best of luck.
Organizations have power, they don't need rights. Corporations will eat the world alive if not stopped. Put me in the HARD Liberal camp.
...but what does Dr. Phil say?
Just Me,
thank you so much. i googled it and it has a lot more information. I am going to pour thru the local news to see if i can find anything out.
strawberry,
thank you for your thoughts, that was very nice of you. i am sure they are ok, its just the not knowing that is difficult.
miss kitty,
i am going to try to stream the news. it looks like some are down, but i am going to keep trying. thank you for looking into that for me.
Eternal Vigilance,
thank you. it means a lot to have people wishing the best.
just a big thank you to everyone
take care C&L friends~
Background, this book, Dr. Bob Altemeyer's "The Authoritarians", that John Dean used for "Conservatives Without A Conscience" is an invaluable resource for understanding the Authoritarian Mindset.
"OK, what’s this book about? It’s about what’s happened to the American government lately. It’s about the disastrous decisions that government has made. It’s about the corruption that rotted the Congress. It’s about how traditional conservatism has nearly been destroyed by authoritarianism. It’s about how the “Religious Right” teamed up with amoral authoritarian leaders to push its un-democratic agenda onto the country. It’s about the United States standing at the crossroads as the next federal election approaches.
“Well,” you might be thinking, “I don’t believe any of this is true.” Or maybe you’re thinking, “What else is new? I’ve believed this for years.” Why should a conservative, moderate, or liberal bother with this book? Why should any Republican, Independent, or Democrat click the “Introduction” link on this page?
Because if you do, you’ll begin an easy-ride journey through some relevant scientific studies I have done on authoritarian personalities--one that will take you a heck of a lot less time than the decades it took me. Those studies have a direct bearing on all the topics mentioned above. So if you think the first paragraph is a lot of hokum, or full of half-truths, I invite you to look at the research.
Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did.
If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are poised to take it over, permanently, I think you can still get a lot from this book. The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?
I think you’ll find this book “explains a lot.” Many scattered impressions about the enemies of freedom and equality become solidified by science and coherently connected here.
You think I’m pulling your leg? Push the button."
~Nyc
I have done the political compass before and I was in the almost same exact spot as the person from Blast Off! was. To put it bluntly, I am the anti-Hitler or Gingrich if you prefer that comparison.
Pardon my skepticism, but I have yet to see criteria by which this was plotted or the supposed views it was based on. This plot has Mitt Romney scoring Higher on the authoritarian scale than Tom Tancredo. Does that include his tenure as governer of Mass.? Or just his pandering speeches at liberty university? In what universe by the way is Hillary nearly as libertarian as Ron Paul? Untill I see some criteria Ill consider this first rate bullshit.
I'm more liberal than GANDHI.
I just took this quiz answering as closely as I could for Obama/Edwards (who fundamentally agree on most issues, just have different approaches) and they ended up at -3, -3 or right where this puts Kucinich. I think the grid is a misrepresentation of their positions. I would be curious to see results from the actual candidates. To put all serious democratic candidates in the same quadrant with all republicans and Hitler is a little strange. I have also taken this quiz several times over the last few years and have ended up around -5,-5. I would think that Hillary/Edwards/Obama are closer to me in their political philosophy than to Mitt Romney and Adolph Hitler. However that's not what this grid claims.
Also it placed Ron Paul right of (or above) center on the authoritarian scale. Aside from his pro life stance he is staunchly libertarian. As far as I know he supports the legalization of drugs, no domestic surveillance of any kind, and even opposes mandatory small pox vaccinations. There is no way that one issue particularly one that is not considered a civil liberties issue by many, including the ACLU, can put him to the right of center. If you switched that position he would be at the very bottom of the grid by my estimate.
Completely inaccurate for about a bajillion reasons, for starters--Ron Paul is definetely more of a libertarian but the chart shows him to be an authoritarian.
-9, -9 (kucinich is a fascist :) )
Does this really surprise anyone after 7 yrs of neo conservatism and how long was there a republican authoritarian neo conservative House and Senate.
They purposely went so far autooritarian and right that the Center has moved to the right.
And the candidates feel they must run just right of center to apeal for the new centers vote.
The supreme court will make it worse for a long Alito and Roberts activist judging time. If you thought the neo cons cried of liberal activists. They got there own and that is what they wanted. Not to govern responsibly................................................
Cameron @ 58:
He is pretty authoritarian. Certainly more so that Kucinich.
I come out -6 on both scales. Just how I like it.
I did the test, and this might be the only time that I can say "I'm about the same as Ghandi and Mandela" ;)
OT
Wouldn’t that be weird if sometime, well between 6am and 12 midnight eastern standard time, during a weekday, basically no one posted a comment to Eschaton, orr during three hours during same period of time, there were only twelve or so comments on Political Animal (I think it’s happened two or three times)?
This would be consistent with the vast majority the regular commenters on sites like that belonging to a single, coordinated source. Any other explanation for most of the commenters disappearing would be much less likely. After all, we already know that Republican campaign staff put on a fake (so-called) “middle class riot” in Florida in 2000, and posed as fake gay rights demonstrators outside majority black polling places. Why couldn’t they put fake liberals on the Internet?
Just saying.
Guess I’m voting for Gravel."
If you have time, you might want to listen to his interview with Mike Malloy, which has been uploaded on YouTube. Sorry to say he came off as a real flake, most people don't know he's not really a liberal, he's more a Libertarian (flat tax, direct democracy.) Really, listen if you have time, he comes off horribly, a doddering old crank.
I mean love what he says about gay rights, can you imagine Hillary saying "Love between a man and a man is beautiful"? And he also recently bitched her out about pushing a states rights approach to gay marriage. But I would still never want him to be president (for instance because, his "direct democracy" is just as poisonous to minority rights as Hillary's states rights.) Edwards is my mainstream choice, Gore is my wishful thinking choice, Kucinich is my snowball's chance choice.
Okay, as a basis of comparison, who might we regard as famously far southwest or far southeast, compass-wise? Ghandi's closest, but he's miles away from an anarchist. And Friedman?
Obviously someone running for office would be promising to destroy it per se. So I'm just trying to gauge the extremesfor comparison.
I'm gonna vote for Kucinich. Why vote for a Libertairian when you can vote for an actual Liberal?
blargh,
ron paul is on the right because he is anti choice, and he said that there is no law perventing the social conservatives from brainwashing our children in the public school room, he is also a supportor of the secound amendments but suprisily, he is anti death penality.
[...] so much huh? Courtesy of BlueGal (of blogging against theocracy) guesting at C&L. Now I know this graph thingy from ages back and I disagree with it’s framing and the [...]
Edwards- I second the motion...................
And the earlier post to being with Mandela and Ghandi is a positive. Unlles of course you have neocon tendencies...........
milquetoast @ 20:
Candidates don't shift. The go where we push them.
Samson- @ 37:
Samson one of the best ways to search is to type two terms separated by a plus sign to pull only stories matching both words together. For example: type "earthquake + lima"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/15/AR200708...
rzhang @ 45:
What are you talking about? I`ve checked the link and I couldn´t find any liberal European leader on said quadrant! Again: What or whom are you talking about?
Good God, I don’t think Kucinich has a chance.
all he has to do is get the most votes. maybe if people would vote for whom they WANT instead of whom they think might WIN, he would get that.
and, of course, if that had happened in 2004 president dean would have gotten us out of iraq by now.
I'd rather have a beer with a guy who says that "we're there" (China.) Unless he pulled out a joint and said lets smoke it, of course. :-)
Edwards is my mainstream choice, Gore is my wishful thinking choice, Kucinich is my snowball’s chance choice.
again, that's the thinking that will sink any chance of a turn toward a popular progressive government.
do your duty as a citizen, and vote for whom you believe in. the wonder of majority rule will do the rest.
I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me, than a prefrontal lobotomy.
wow!
did you guys* take the test?
i more left than ghandi
i was like (-8.-7.5)
-s
Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.46
Neocons burst into flames at the mere sight of me.
garbage in, garbage out....this graph is completely inaccurate
lefty dude @ 78:
My score was like yours. I felt like I was in good company, away from the poops on the other side of the chart.
I did take the test. Not surprisingly I´ve found what I already knew: If I was an Amerikan living in the USA I´d be one of the first inmates in your newly built concentration camps.
Healthy fast foods are a crock.
@37
This is a long shot, but if you know any radio hams, see if they can find out whether hams are handling health & welfare traffic (which is the category "Are my parents OK?" fits into) into and out of Lima. If you don't know anyone mail me at wa7kpk at arrl dot org and tell me where you're located. I'll put you in touch with someone in your area who can find out.
I honestly do not see this as accurate. Especially because Ron Paul is most definitely Libertarian and does not belong on the Authoritarian side.
I believe the test is accurate as far as most politiicans and world leaders beig authoritarian. My score was way down in Economic Left/Right: 3.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.33
That puts me wa down near right and libertarian.
I think Ron Paul scored in the authoritarian area because there are some religious questions that I think push him up. However, there is a big difference between someone that believes religious BS and someone who tries to force it on others. For instance, Ron Paul is against ‘Roe v Wade’ because it is not constitutional, but if he said that all abortions should be illegal then we would have a problem. He is correct on the issue.
There are a couple better quizzes at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html and http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi that you should check out. They have more specific questions that give more accurate result.
Sorry, can't buy that that chart is accurate. Political Compass would be good to list why they rated the candidates that way.
In this graph, Gravel and Kucinich stand out. This graph has been available for a while, but just recently publicized. Is this publicity the cause of other papers attempting to declare Gravel and Kucinich to be somehow less credible candidates?
The reality is that any of the Dems running will be better than any of the R's. So that difference is much greater than the difference between various Dems.
very good thing fish, you got it ...
ctb619 @ 80:
There's always someone willing to piss on a parade (Could we see your dissertation on that?)
dave @ 84:
Oh. And now we know why.
BTW all you Kucinich lovers-He's in the same spot as Nader. Now all you know how I've felt over the last 12 years or so be blasted for supporting my true choice. If any of you were arsehole enough to bash Nader supporters in the past, now you know what we've been hanging on to.
Economic Left/Right: -6.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.33
Omir the Storyteller @ 84:
You can always count on the hams... :)
Edwards is my choice.
Jon Stewart Kicked some butt tonight.
So did Colbert (if what I'm seeing is the most recent on the Comedy Central website) ...
miss -
> BTW all you Kucinich lovers-He’s in the same spot as Nader.
No, Nader didn't ever even try to go through a primary process.
LibertyLover @ 93:
I was just sayin' how happy that made me...
Stanley Rosenthal @ 95:
On the chart, Stanley. On the chart.
I'm just really impressed that they managed to get people like Ghandi and Stalin to take the test.
Wow. This really adds to my disappointment with our current field of candidates. I supported Clark in '04, and am still a Clarkie waiting for him to get in the race.
He's Liberal Left on the Political Compass. Scroll down to the bottom to see the graph:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Wesley_Clark.htm
miss_kitty @ 96:
I loved it when Jon got serious and states what the rest of us know. I wanted to stand up and cheer... and the audience knows that this admin has forever called war critics traitors... Hayes was completely flummoxed by this and had no where to go.
Ron Paul wants to pull out of Iraq immediately and essentially tell the military industrial complex to go f themselves, abolish the IRS, abolish the Federal Reserve, close the borders and he's lumped in with Hillary and the rest of them. I don't think so.
tim @ 9:
Heh, I came in at -6.88 and -7.90 . . . further south and left than GHANDI!!! lol
> On the chart, Stanley. On the chart.
Who f'n care's about that? ;-) Let's talk about what's on the real, instead of what's on the chart. :-)
strawberry @ 34:
The sex with the cooking channel thing kinda caught my attention . . . ;-)
Strawberries and whipped cream off a nekkid navel kinda thing . . . .
That quiz didn't ask me about THAT stuff . . .
Just Me @ 35:
Sadly, Kuch DON'T have a chance . . . but I think infinite mediocrity is MUCH too high a bar to set for the rest of them.
That was awesome. I'm more liberal than Gandhi too!
I don't care if the appearance (created by the right-wing main-stream media) that Kucinich doesn't have a chance. I'm gonna vote for him anyWAY.
Samson- @ 37:
No advice on com issues, but best thoughts for you and yours . . .
Samson- @ 37:
Samson, here´s a link to the online version of "El Comercio", it might be helpful. The connection is very slow right now:
http://www.elcomercio.com.pe/ediciononline/onlineindex.html
Chris @ 100:
Ron Paul is pro-life, wants to build a wall around our country, against government-funded social programs, pro-isolationist, and anti-immigration. Don't let him fool you with his liberal-sounding talking points. He's definitely a loon.
I saw the official Progressive version of this grid. Every known candidate is all the way in the upper right corner, and the lower left is a campaign ad encouraging Al Gore write-in votes. (Which is funny, because last time around you'll recall that Al Gore and George W. Bush were in the same spot.)
Samson- @ 37:
Samson, here is the link to the Centro Informativo at the Peruvian Embassy in Washington D.C.
Scroll down, you´ll find loads of links to newspapers, TV and radio stations. Good luck!
http://www.peruvianembassy.us/embajada/centro-informativo-contactos-pren...
I'm in there with Nelson Mandela, Ghandi and the Dalai Lama.
No wonder I'm pissed off. Bush is way up and to the right.
Come to think of it, I really liked 'rock'. Could you guys do me a favour and all vote for Mike Gravel? I know he's a bit nutty, but it would be nice to have a human being in the White House.
Duncun, I know Rock. And Gravel is no Rock (nor an Island.) I'm voting Kucinich.
I took the test and I'm between Kucinich and very upset !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
I took the test and ended up slightly left of the Dalai Lama. I hear he's looking to retire and they'll need a replacement. Just for the record - I'm not interested in the job, but thanks anyway. ;)
Hmmm.. Looks like yet more evidence of the One Party principle. I don't know why we don't just admit it so we can have one primary. No matter who wins, the war will keep going, PAC dollars will keep flowing, NSA will keep knowing what it is you told your lover.
Anyone enjoyed any freedom lately?
You need each individual candidate to take this test before you believe the results. I've taken this test. I fail to believe that Hillarry is less authoritarian than Obama or Richardson. Esp when right-wing London Times Online/Rupert Murdoch is providing the answers to the test.
More disinfo if you ask me.
First of all, I doubt the validity of this graphic... I mean I took that test and just who decided what these people's answers would be to the questions? I know none of them actually took the test so someone just made assumptions about what they would say. None of these folks answered these questions directly so everyone should be taking this with a pretty good sprinkling of salt instead of excepting it as the gospel truth as most seem to be.
That said, after answering the questions directly, I would up where I didn't expect to be. Truthfully I expected to be on the left, but the slightly authoritarian side, but it didn't go down like that...
Economic Left/Right: -5.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.77
Heck I'm a bit to the left of Kucinich according to this thing, which means I have my doubts about it...lol. Some of the questions were kinda vague and had more nuanced explanations rather than just agree or disagree (strongly). I'm pretty progressive socially, but they didn't ask if I supported the invasion of Afghanistan (yes) or Iraq (no). Not enough questions about specific, current events to really be all that accurate. I think in broad strokes it's close.
By there numbers I reckon it means I believe the government has an obligation to protect people from disaster and not allow people to starve, but how far you can go and what you can achieve in life is up to how hard you're willing to work and what risks you're willing to take.
Christ, I just redid the test. Last time I did it, I had entirely different results.
This time I was as left as Gandhi but more Libertarian. Shocked me. I used to be a rabid Republican. What happened ?!? I'm more left than Gravel and Kucinich. SHOCKING ! I'm also more pissed off than teh last time I took this test, which was two years ago.
Just goes to show that Gravel, Kucinich and GORE are the best and only choices.
Any other choice is like the proverbial Turkey voting for Xmas.
The other lot will sell us down the river into slavery, and just paper over the gaping chasms and smile while doing so.
Last time I took this test a couple of years ago, it placed me near Ghandi, Dhali Lama, etc. I think I was slightly more left than libertarian.
But as for the fact that almost all the candidates are clustered in the Auth/Right corridor doesn't surprise me at all. And Ron Paul is exactly where he should be: on the right, somewhere close to the Auth./Libert. line... he's one of the last politicians who really is a conservative and not the usual neo-con Nazi trying to claim that banner.
CNN: US Spy Satellites Are Watching You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSNEwvPlnU0
Ron Paul should be lower than the others. He's the only real libertarian of the bunch. This person probably doesn't understand that he leaves social issues such as abortion up to the states. He's also the only one who would actually be able to shrink the size of government with his policies; not just talk about it.
jxn @ 22:
jxn, that's the best comment I've read on a website in weeks!
Chris @ 101:
I don't think there's a dimension of that graph that can accurately capture the insanity that is Ron Paul. One or two close-to-sane ideas (that a mainstream of Americans can support) are jumbled in with a bunch of insane bullshit that is not even close to credible. Abolish the IRS? So we can fund our government how? Abolish the Federal Reserve? So we can go back to bartering deerskins, one assumes? And close the borders? This is the 21st century. The only nations with closed borders are North Korea and that place up in Asia somewhere where the entire country has had smoking banned and lives like a 14th century feudal monarchy.
Kucinich/Gavel in 2008!
Blargh @ 13:
He's not that libertarian, despite what you want him to be.
slippytoad @ 127:
With the global economy firmly established, it is damned near impossible for countries to have isolationist policies without falling apart.
While the IRS can't be abolished, it should be severely downsized by completely simplifying the tax code so that there are no freight train sized loopholes for rich people to jump through and the average citizen can do his taxes without having to hire an accountant or use sophisticated software... something like a flat tax would work there.
Before the Federal Reserve, the world used gold/silver as the benchmark for money. The last industrialized country to back its currency with precious metal was Switzerland, and they stopped doing that in 2000 because of the Nazi gold scandal. Since gold/silver is a finite resource, the Fed. Reserve was established to create a theoretically infinite supply of money. Personally, I think it is a poor model based on creating money from debt and usury fees, as this guarantees that bankers will have a larger and larger proportion of the total money supply. The entire global Reserve needs to be retooled such that individual governments, and not banks, have more control over usury fees and issuing of money... this will reduce inflation and probably even reduce tax burden as well.
The country that banned smoking was Bhutan, a Constitutional Monarchy tucked in the Himalayas. Like most countries in that region, it hasn't changed much in the past several centuries. ;)
Blue Buddha @ 131:
I agree there are sensible things we can do and that the institutions we have now aren't perfect. But if you listen to the Roniacs he's the fucking Messiah and he'll change the world with a whisk of his pen, abolishing those nasty interfering institutions because All Government Is Tautologically Bad, Don'cha Know?
And every once in awhile I think I'm mischaracterizing the guy, but really the only difference between what he wants and what Bush wants is in scale. Bush wants his best buddies to control the government so that everyone else is powerless. Ron Paul wants no one to control the government so that everyone he disagrees with is powerless. Neither of them is interested in what the real world needs.
Me: Economic Left/Right: -5.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31
The DLC should be happy about that.
The only thing I would like to see is the distribution of the population. Are HRC and Edwards really "left"?
Turns out me and the Dali Lama are simpatico.
london times, eh?
so, kucinich and gravel (i've been rooting for both for a while) tested more libertarian than paul. dang. sorry hacks. told ya he was just another reich winger.
That is a bunch of BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're telling me that Gravel and Kucinich are more libertarian than Ron Paul?!?!?!
I completely agree with the principle behind the "Nolan chart," namely that "left" and "right" do not aduquately describe political landscape. Instead the X and Y axises on this chart represent "personal freedom" - ie. drugs, abortion, smoking, sex,... and "econimic freedom" - ie. low/no taxes, business regulations, etc. But the positioning of the candidates is wrong. I've been a libertarian for about 20 years and I know that Ron Paul is a libertarian, so he'd be solidly in the lower-left corner of the chart. But he wouldn't be at the absolute bottom-left (there's been articles on libertarian websites that Ron Paul isn't libertarian enough). Gravel and Kuchinich are basically "big-government" liberals who are pro personal freedom but anti-economic freedom(ie. tax the rich, socialized medicine, social security, education, etc.).
Once again there is no way that this chart is right. Ron Paul is the only candidate in the libertarian corner of the map.
I'm not sure what definition of left and right they're using, but it's not the standard definitions used in the US. When I do the political compass thing, I'm usually a -2, -2 (in the upper-right corner of the green block) and I'm more around the politics of Clinton, Obama, and Edwards. Definitely nowhere near Kucinich and Gravel.
According to whatever definitions they're using, I would be about dead center in the "Authoritarian right" block, along with most americans.
Maybe this is correct is applying typical European definitions of what is liberal and conservative in economic and social issues, but I highly question this exercises accuracy, at least based on definitions of these terms in the US.
pinhead @ 136:
also, hillary, obama, etcetera. i have said all along that gravel and kucinich are the only two worth spit in this race...
Great chart, but why are the assholes toward the top? Put them at the bottom, closer to hell.
sorry drew, he's a NEO-libertarian douchebag.
as far as gravel and kucinich being "big governement,"well, DUH, most of us are democrats and we SUPPORT socialized medicine/unviversal healthcare, etcetera- you don't turn me off there.
under anti-tax neo-libertarians/facsists/authoritarians/small/NO government rethuglicans, too many people would fall through the cracks, especially given the state of the disappearing middle class and the ultra-powerful rich.
i can't stop saying it, and it makes more sense now than ever- you can't run government if you don't believe in government.
Stash @ 135:
hey, me too man!
So nobody represents us the people, www.YouPolls.com
Josh @ 138:
maybe they should have left all the tinpot dictators and historical tyrants (mussolini, hitler, pol pot) on there for comparison's sake.
This chart doesn't surprise me at all. I think a Canadian Conservative is likely closer to centre than an American Democrat. Partisan hackery and the two-party system has polarized the country and pushed everything to the right.
i'm with you foo.
Josh @ 138:
Maybe this is correct is applying typical European definitions of what is liberal and conservative in economic and social issues, but I highly question this exercises accuracy, at least based on definitions of these terms in the US.
The chart attempts to be universal, and uses the general definitions of liberal/conservative. There's nothing to question regarding the accuracy of the terms; the US just uses the terms wrong these days.
Whether or not the politicians on the map are accurately mapped is up for debate, though.
pinhead @ 142:
Same here!
tim @ 9:
You're not alone. I'm down there too.
I guess Gravel is my guy.
Orf the closest thing, anyway.
Law enforcement getting new access to secret imagery
Well, this should settle it. If you want to vote for a libertarian then vote for Gravel or Kucinich. They're both better libertarians than Doctor Paul. I imagine he's higher on the graph than some would want to believe because of his opposition to the secular nature of our country. Anyone who's been a libertarian longer than a few months knows that Paul is only a libertarian when it's convenient.
If you want to vote for a liberal, vote Kucinich. If you want to vote for a libertarian, vote Kucinich. What reason does anyone really have anymore not to back this guy? When the DLC says they need to "play to the middle," someone remind them that they'll need to move further to the left to do that.
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