Bush to connect Iraq, Vietnam
By Steve Benen Tuesday Aug 21, 2007 7:12amWith the president’s upcoming report to Congress on “progress” in Iraq just a few weeks away, the White House is, once again, preparing a new public-relations offensive to bolster support for Bush’s war policy. It starts today with a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars’ annual convention, followed by another address next week to the American Legion, which will reportedly offer a “broader context” to discouraging news out of Iraq.
Apparently, this context includes an odd comparison between the wars in Iraq and Vietnam.
As he awaits a crucial progress report on Iraq, President Bush will try to put a twist on comparisons of the war to Vietnam by invoking the historical lessons of that conflict to argue against pulling out.
On Wednesday in Kansas City, Missouri, Bush will tell members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars that “then, as now, people argued that the real problem was America’s presence and that if we would just withdraw, the killing would end,” according to speech excerpts released Tuesday by the White House.
But this is an obvious misread of history. Supporters of the war in Vietnam said a withdrawal would lead to Communists dominating Southeast Asia., just as supporters of the war in Iraq argue that a withdrawal now would lead to some kind of al Qaeda caliphate.
That, of course, is probably one of the least persuasive arguments the White House could offer. Predictions predicated on an Asian “domino theory” turned out to be wrong. As Josh Marshall explains why.
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Of course, the biggest difference between Iraq and Vietnam: at least in Vietnam they actually had Commies when we got there.
THE TOP TEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN VIETNAM AND IRAQ
I have to admit, K-Rove is a political genius. As much as I hate him, he's going to be the Kissinger of our generation. Reviled by many for the disasterous policies he persued, and praised by asshole contrarian historians for the creative resolve with which he persued them. It's a simple plan, turn you enemies strength into a weakness, and your own weakness into a strength.
They've been laying the groundwork for this move for a long time, though. Despite the mountains of evidence and testimony to the contrary, anyone growing up in the 80s onward was consistantly fed the idea that "some people say" the Vietnam war was winnable, we just needed to stay the course and commit more resources. Total bullshit, but Rove knows that they've infected enough of the Manchurian Electorate with the idea to evoke an unwarrented "Hmmmm. Maybe it's true."
These people aren't stupid, they just play dumb on TV.
Bill in Chicago @ 1:
But before they were commies, they were our allies. But the Vietnam war was very good for Bell Helicopter which became Textron who makes the cluster bombs that are blowing the limbs off Lebanese children as they walk in the olive tree groves.
Meanwhile, my brother and family are canoing in Vietnam, enjoying the warm response from the people who were never our enemies.
What an amazing irony - the guy who started the mess in Iraq and who is still advocating and pushing our fight there is comparing the war to the country's most deadly blunder.
what washington as a whole does not seem to get is that the Vietnam war was lost and was a failure from start to finish. They still seem to tout it as an 'honorable' war.
Sounds like desperation to me. They have scraped the bottom of the barrel for something and this is the best they could come up with. It was wrong to compare this war to Vietnam before it was right to make the comparison? Yep, desperation.
I can not believe what I read of his speech on CNN. Who was pouring Agent Orange over Vietnam? Who bombed Laos and Cambodia - who therefore contributed to the Khmer Rouge being able to take power. Who isolated Vietnam post The War such that there were economic difficulties that lead to the Boat People issue. Who? And there was no communist domino effect.
Hopefully this is the last dying fly act of an Administration that is totally corrupt, wrong and a great disservice to the American people. It has not fought 'the war on terrorism - what it set out to do - it has not achieved - what it set out to do was built on lies and what it lied about has helped no one.
Thanks. Ta -lovely.
This is the 2nd tour of duty for Bush's Vietnam-Iraq comparison -- he made a similar statement to Stephanopoulos less than a year ago. We've also heard comparisons to Korea, WWII and the Revolutionary War. Funny how they seldom mention the obvious comparison: The Civil War.
Mutt @ 5:
Not only started the mess in Iraq, but avoided service in the war he now uses, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, as supposed justification for the foreign policy disaster he started.
It's time to re-read Lewis Carroll--or would that be redundant?
Oh goodie! Shrub is going to start making the Iraq/Vietnam analogies himself.
Can't imagine any chance of this backfiring on him, can you? :)
In 1984 Winston Smith's job was to rewrite history in order for it to conform to the current political utterances. Bush doesn't have to rewrite history, he just says the opposite and people believe it. He can say what ever he wants about Vietnam and the masses and the media will nod their heads in agreement.
The one lesson we should have learned from Vietnam was not to be stupid enough to get into that kinda mess again.
Finally Bush gets it! Iraq=Vietnam!
Give the monkey a banana.
Actually, Chimpy-boy makes a good point. The situation in Viet Nam does have a weird, 'Romeo and Juliet/West Side Story' kind of parallel consistency with the present-day situation in Iraq.
For example:
Then, as now: Our very presence in the region is ONLY due to the presence of corporate interests in the region
Then, as now: 'National security' is the excuse given for or presence in the region.
Then, as now: Democrats are openly demonized, belittled, and ridiculed in the media. They are accused of supporting the enemy, and being unpatriotic for expressing anti-war views.
Then, as now: The Republican party and the Administration routinely make false and misleading statements to distort and obfuscate opposing viewpoints, in order to build and maintain public support for the war.
Then, as now: The Administration routinely withholds information from the public in an effort to prevent them from knowing how badly the war is really going.
Then, as now: George W. Bush is in Texas, not Viet Nam.
Iraq is like Viet Nam - no one from the Bush family is willing to serve.
Udon Nomee, that was a hell of a good comment.
Maybe we wouldn't have had that problem in Vietnam if George Bush, Dick Cheney and all of the neocons of that age hadn't found ways to avoid actually serving in Vietnam. That group of superheroes certainly could have turned the tide of the war couldn't they?
Iraq like Viet Nam in that there are no signs of the war-mongering chickenhawks.
If the members of that VFW Post are the patriots they think themselves to be, when Bush begin his speech, they will all rise and turn their backs to him. After 1 or 2 minutes they will silently file out of the building, leaving Bush to propagandize and lie to an empty room. While the cameras roll.
These vets should remember that Bush is a deserter, a coward and a liar who doesn't care whether active duty or veterans live or die. They are mere stage props to him, to be used and forgotten once he's had his use of them. They should remember that he daily betrays his oath of office. They should remember that he is at war with the Constitution of the United States, and that to the exact extent that he succeeds in his little war, he erases and makes empty the sacrifices of every last person who has ever risked life, limb and fortune in service to the country - going all the way back to our Nation's beginnings. The members of that VFW Post should remember that, by his every decision and act, Bush holds every last one of them in utmost contempt. Bush serves only himself and no other.
I listened to some of the presser yesterday with bush and the heads of Canada and Mexico. The tone of bush's speech and the content of what he said was somehow frightening. He sounded so desperate trying to convince his listeners that he was right in everything he has done. He went into that same old stuff about spreading freedom and democracy around the world, but he sounded more like a tv preacher than a president. He wasn't talking about god but just the way he spoke reminded me of a tv preacher trying to convince his audience that his way was the only way. There were times when I wondered what the other two men on that stage were thinking. I imagine they were thinking he was about one step away from being insane. That's what I was thinking.
Carmikl @ 18:
Nice point. You should be working for their spin machine. "Bush could have delivered victory in Vietnam, if only it wasn't so hard to get sent over there! We need to start drafting young people at gunpoint, that way they won't end up regretting their non-participation when running for office 30 years from now."
Just submit a resume scribed on human flesh with virgin blood, a lock of your hair, and your free will.
War is a great vehicle for stealing money, and steal they have. Bush has no moral authority. Bush is the worst criminal president, the worst criminal administration. He should be prosecuted under the RICO statute, the Patriot Act, and twenty seven violations of the criminal code, and one moving violation. The man has, in concert with his cronies, destroyed this country, robbed us blind, spied on us. Who is watching him? Nobody, they are all just one big criminal organization. Hard times are coming to the honest, hard working folks of the USA.
Go Bush! Two wars that we had no business starting that were born on the wings of a lie.
Gulf of Tonkin is to Vietnam as WMD is to Iraq.
Bush said this en route to his (rather belated) first visit to Vietnam:
Yep, that's the lesson of Vietnam, alright.
There is no comparison.
Vietnam era music was WAAAAY better.
Let me see...Grateful Dead or Eminem?
Janis Joplin or Britney Spears?
Quicksilver Messenger Service (minus Dino Valente) or Oh...I just don't know. Whatever they are listening to these days, it ain't 'Wooden Ships,' 'Cream-Puff War,' or 'Hey Mona.'
But the part where a bunch of mouth-breathing idiots think, because we have the strongest military force known to mankind, we can defeat any enemy, no matter what their tactics or how superior their knowledge of the terrain or local populace. Yeah, it's easy to compare that type of mentality, and draw comparisons to both Iraq and Vietnam. Yeah, that part is spot on, actually.
Prez Bush is gonna say Vietnam was a winnable war. That we lost no battles. That the hippies pressure Nixon into peace talks. He wont mention war profiteering,58000 Americans dead, 1000 missing and 150,000 seriously wounded. He also wont mention the amount of men who returned unable to cope with life and hence the drug addictions and mental problems. He wont mention that he wants to cut VA hospital budget and war pensions. He wont mention the South vietnam death toll and that we actually had someone to fight that wore uniforms. He wont mention that the south provided a 1,000,000 or more men to ally the american effort. Its just a new talking point of twisted history. Our troops fought valiantly in "NAM". They were hero's They deserved better treatment upon return to the USA. None of then should be swift boated or questioned.
I wonder how this speech is going to go over with the veterans in the audience today. Many of these guys are going to be Nam veterans. They're going to be listening to a guy who is clueless about Nam talking about the lessons he's learned from Nam and how he is going to apply them to his own Nam. The irony of this just seems like it should be explosive.
Mugsy @ 11:
:lol: :lol:
I love the smell of irony in the morning. You?
The man is a blithering idiot.
The difference between Iraq and Viet Nam...Bush actually had a plan for getting out of Viet Nam.
Can't wait for the link between Iraq and Vietnam.
So, wait a minute. All the energy they put into denying that Iraq would be a quagmire like Vietnam, now they're invoking it?
By comparing Iraq to Vietnam does George Bush mean that we can expect another five years of fighting an insurgency without significant progress.
I wonder if they'll connect the upcoming war on Iran to Vietnam. I'm guessing not.
--WKW
Vacuus Deus @ 31:
LMAO!! I almost spit coffee on my keyboard.
It seems ironic that a deserter would lecture a room full of Vietnam Veterans on the lessons learned in the Vietnam war.
At my local VFW post, no one respects Bush at all. They say unkind things about him when they talk about their volunteer work at the local VA hospital.
g @ 33:
No. Admitting it.
Don Davis @ 2:
worth repeating!
Meanwhile....
14 U.S. troops die in Iraq copter crash
By HAMID AHMED, Associated Press Writer
A Black Hawk helicopter went down Wednesday in northern Iraq, killing all 14 U.S. soldiers aboard, the military said, the deadliest crash since January 2005.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, meanwhile, lashed out at American criticism a day after President Bush expressed frustration with the Iraqi government's inability to bridge political divisions.
"No one has the right to place timetables on the Iraq government. It was elected by its people," the Shiite leader said at a news conference in Damascus at the end of a three-day visit to Syria.
"Those who make such statements are bothered by our visit to Syria. We will pay no attention. We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere," al-Maliki said.
The military said initial indications showed the UH-60 helicopter experienced a mechanical problem and was not brought down by hostile fire, but the cause of the crash was still under investigation.
Send more pretzels, this guy is insane. Maybe he'll explain how to dodge the "new" Vietnam. Draft time is on the way and this @-hole whimfully started the whole thing like a naive teenage thug on a dare. There's a special Hell for you George.
Weaseldog @ 37:
And yet, the VFW endorsed bush in 2000 and '04.
And I'll wager they'll also endorse whichever repig gets the nomination for '08 as well.
Harley @ 32:
to 9-11.
I bet they are going to screen who will be in the audience today. Some of the nam vets would probably stand up and tell him to go to hell when he makes that comparison. I would cheer for them too if they did that.
Maybe they'll claim that Osama is really Ho Chi Minh with a turban.
Bushie, Coulter and others pull the Scooby Doo villain "if it weren't for you kids..." arguments about wars they didn't fight themselves
pissed off patricia @ 44:
They all ways do.
pissed off patricia @ 44:
Can you say Swift Boaters?
according to the cnn website hillary clinton was "blasted" for something
she said at the vfw. it seems that cnn can't put up a headline about one of
"their" major candidates without using comic book super hero effects.
i think blasted is their favorite effect. of course they don't give headlines
to kucinich. and they would certainly not give him superhero quailities.
they create the drama
they create the drama
they choose the contenders.
we are all so stupid to give them the power they have.
I forgot about all those oil reserves in Vietnam. Thanks Dubya!
pissed off patricia @ 21:
You do things I no longer have the stomache for. I applaud you for sharing things that would make me throw a mallet at my TV. I mean that sincerely.
I just found out that my cousin, a career soldier, is going to spend the next 15 months of an 18-month tour in Iraq after three tours of Afghanistan. WTF can boosh say to me that won't make me more angry? nothing! nothing at all.
pissed off patricia @ 44:
no doubt!
Seems to me if the vfw is screened they should tell us about it. Maybe one good nam vet will.
Now this is the stupidist thing I have ever heard. I was in Vietnam in February right before their new year. It was great. Everyone was friendly and the econmy is booming. Granted there is still a lot of extreme poverty but it was not what I imagined as part of an evil communist empire. Anyway, the results would have been the same if we left Vietnam 10 years early or 10 years later. Actually if we left 10 years earlier fewer Americans would have died and Vietnam would probably be 10 years advanced on their economy. I'm not sure what we would have 'won' or 'lost'. Likewise, I'm not sure what there is to 'win' in Iraq. Whether we leave now or in 30 years there will be a bloodbath when we leave, some faction will take control, probably the Shiites aligned with Iran, and then everyone will get on with it. We only delay the inevitable and the comparison to Vietnam only points out that fact.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 49:
we don't give them any power here. we debunk them!
Al-Qaeda does not equal the North Vietnamese Regular Army, so any comparison between Iraq and the end result in Vietnam is ridiculous. Al-Qeada in not a country with a well equipped and supplied standing army. Al-Qaeda is not supported by the majority of the citizens of Iraq. In fact the evidence points to the citizens of Iraq turning on al-Qaeda and eliminating them on their own. Al Qaeda will not send an invading army into Iraq if we leave. Yes, there is and probably will be a civil war, but Iraq will not be overrun by an invading force. We were the invading force that overran Iraq.
BaScOmBe, sometimes I watch him for comic relief. I can find humor in his pathetic speaking ability at times. But yesterday he truly embarrassed himself and our country with his demeanor. I just heard someone who called into Wash. Journal on C-span say basically the same thing.
I guess basically I watch him to find out what the lie of the day will be.
its laughable ,redicules, ironic , vietnam was a farce , when ww2 ended the japanese soldiers were allowed to stay armed by the united states in vietnam , why you ask , because the french wanted thier collony back and we let them have it back, the vietnamese were not communists untill then, they wanted to be our friends but we went ahead and kissed the frenches ass , and turned the vietnamese people into communisim to get thier freedom from france , anyone whos studyed indo china knows that each villiage had its own government and except for the rich and the pro french didnt accept siagon as thier government head, i find it rediculess that we are tradeing with communist red china ,buying thier poison and helping to buy arms to fight us with, we fought the chinese in korea i helped kill them , what the hell was i thinking , thiers a memmorial in dc and it honors we who fought there and in cemetarys all over the us lies brave men and women who were killed fighting chinese troops in korea , its an act of stupidity that were selling out thoes who fought and died in korea for some god damned cheap shit thats mostly poisoned or were formally made by americans, so go ahead head out to wall mart buy that shit but some american kids going to die once again on some battle field or ocean once again in the future because you refused to purchase [made in china]
Iraq is like Vietnam - WE FUCKING LOST!
sorry didnt refuse
Teddy Bears and other stuffed and fluffy animals. Thats what we'll win.
I accidentally heard a bit of Rush Limbaugh this morning. He's blasting the Dem candidates because they don't have the courage to fight America's enemy, Iran....
Yeah, lack of courage is the only reason not to attack a well prepared sovereign nation that is no threat to world security. A brave Republican evidently will attack them, even with a military already stretched to the breaking point.
Maybe Bush is drawing Vietnam parallels because the final similarity is coming? After we start bombing Iran, we'll have no choice but to bring back the draft.
"Whatever your position in that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens, whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like 'boat people,' 're-education camps' and 'killing fields,' " the president will say.
If he actually says that, I hope someone mentions to him that 're-education camps' and 'killing fields' are both terms we learned from Cambodia, not Vietnam, and that in the end it was Communist Vietnam that kicked Pol Pot out of Phnom Penh. If Nixon hadn't incurred into Cambodian territory and destabilized the regime there maybe we would never have learned those two terms in the way that we learned them.
Udom Nodum @ 15:
Add this one to your list:
Then, as now, Dick Cheney is a pivotal member of the Administration.
One slight difference, however, between then and now is painfully obvious:
Then, unlike now, the president admitted wrong-doing had occured the minute he submitted his resignation from the highest office in the country.
That will NOT happen now. Cheney and the NWO have got their man.
So, the inference being that Bush thinks in retrospect it was a mistake to leave Vietnam? Am I getting that right?
Why don't we ever hear about THE CONTRACTORS?? After all, they have to leave if the troops leave, cause they'll be slaughtered. Nobody ever talks about the Halliburton people, now do they?
pissed off patricia @ 17:
I second that!! So good I intend to share it with as many people as possible!
So that's the difference in Iraq and Vietnam: In Vietnam there weren't over 100,000 contractors frantically building oil wells and a gargantuan embassy, among other stuff. When Dick Cheney says we can't leave til the job is done, THAT'S the job he's talking about.
Chimpy's absolutely right -- both Vietnam and Iraq are disasters caused by the good 'ol US of A!
Bush keeps talking about the future seeing the presents past actions as history. The fact is history is the present looking back from the immediate past backwards. If you look the future with the present point of view, you end up creating a fiction that will be made a point of conjecture somewhere in time.
Bush actions where, are, and will always be seen as the actions of the most arrogant and ignorant man to have sat in office since the founding of the country. History has already spoken.
Badwater you really do have "good taste". And Udon Nomee, you're wrong, I do know you. Your the person despite all the bulls_ _ _ that had been flashed down and now glogs the toilet bowl of corporate media, still is able to snife out the truth. Bush is a damn sight dumber than I had ever imagined if he thinks he can shove this one up our butts with no grease. Why not show us just how much of a true patriot he really is and send his own (girls) to Iraq. At least he'd be able to say someone in his household had the balls to serve and not run and hide. Who am I kiddin', a snowball would stand a better chance in hell than that one happening.
pissed off patricia @ 53:
certainly no one will put a mike in front of a dissenter. we have too much evidence of that.
Zenrage @ 59:
You cannot "WIN" an occupation!
Udon Nomee @ 15:
worth the repeat!
Considering that our president spent Vietnam somewhere in the national guard rather than putting his ass on the line, making comparisons between the two is insulting. If you go back though his rambling comments of the past 4 years, he has said many times that Iraq isn't Vietnam, but now it is? Here I think he's right. Vietnam was a political war. The insurgents are fighting a Holy war. It really doesn't matter what we do or how we leave, the killing will continue until they are all dead or until the Lord comes back. I don't agree with the President but don't impeach him. Can you imagine President Cheney?
"If the members of that VFW Post are the patriots they think themselves to be, when Bush begin his speech, they will all rise and turn their backs to him. After 1 or 2 minutes they will silently file out of the building, leaving Bush to propagandize and lie to an empty room. While the cameras roll. "
LOL!!!! the VFW leadership has been solidly rock ribbed Republican for many years now. Bush will receive a loud standing ovation and will have many applause interuptions. I quit going to their conventions (I'm a life member) after the leadership decided to become actively endorsing political candidates.
BaScOmBe @ 52:
the vfw is as republican as they come, its a pro war orginization ,they slobbered all over reagans johonson like it was mothers milk, they depend on war to fill thier ranks all the top membership that run it are republicans , i was a member untill reagan became president then i told them to shove it up thier asses, so dont depend on vfw members to be against any war!
lonnie's "wardead" @ 70:
There's just something about these two lines that lead me to believe that there's something I don't know about the Bush family.
I'm listening to yesterday's speeches. Obama is up now.
Fred Thompson says we'll leave Iraq better than how we found it. That's a nice Boy Scout sentiment. But in the Boy Scouts, we didn't burn down the forest, then fix it. We left the forest intact.
"Blah blah blah blah blah I'm not changing anything before I leave the WH, are you kidding me"!
wlgriffi @ 75:
Yes, their leadership at the upper tiers is solidly Republican. But that sentiment isn't shared below that level.
Necadawg @ 27:
It's not possible to equate fought valiantly and "nam" in the same sentence. The war, like Iraq was a senseless killing field. There was nothing valiant about it. Calling our soldiers valiant in either Nam or Iraq or coming soon in Iran, is like calling the 14 year olds who start beating up a bunch of 3rd graders in the schoolyard valiant fighters, just because some of the little kids managed to hit them with a few rocks while trying to run away and to cause some minor injuries and minimal bloodshed in comparison with how they are being punched and kicked and knocked to the ground by big kids. Our soldiers, like our country is an ugly bully. The fact that our military is all volunteer makes it worse. Kids are signing up of their own free will to go slaughter Iraqis. At least in Nam they were mostly all drafted. The valiant ones were the resistors and draft dodgers.
The delightfully "traitorous" Jon Stewart just had the author of Nixon and Kissinger on. Seems Kissinger had his panties terribly twisted because the gentleman researched his book with Nixon's tapes, said Kissinger damned himself with his own mouth. Point was that Kissinger and Nixon knew Vietnam was lost in 71 but would not end it for the purpose of how bad it would look for Nixon's reelection-at the the cost of 23,000 additional lives. So, yes, little boots should comare this war based on lies to the last one based on lies. His kids will come as close to strapping on the boots and picking up the gun as he did. If he and cheney had gone they might not have done anything as monumentally stupid, but then again, there is the war profiteering.
I don't think it's worth engaging the argument, rather we should show how Bush and company have repeatedly rejected comparisons to Vietnam. He's flip-flopped again.
the naccp says we must not persecute vick for his helping butcher pit bulls because people enjoy vick playing foot ball, thoes pit bulls probably would not have been fighting or killing anything if assholes like him didnt make them do it, its because hes black aint it? screw that noise black green yellow or white any bastard that does this is not woth breating free air, i resent assholes like these naccp jerks telling us its ok hes a foot ball player , this guys a demented prick and thiers no forgiveing anyone who condones dog fighting, these thugs steal your pets from your yards and set thoes pit bulls on them and let them kill just to train them, very few pit bulls are salvaged by the humane socciaty after they kill in the ring ,they are uthinised ,
sorry ment to post that on the open thread
I heard that too, tyree. Did you hear the guy from the naacp say that there wouldn't have been this much outrage if vick had killed a human being? Those has to be the most stupid words ever uttered. If the bastard had killed a human being his ass would be going to prison for the rest of his life. As it is, we don't even know how or if he'll have to pay for what he's done.
Bush started early at the VFW to cut off Obama's pre-recorded broadcast. Obama was talking about expanding services for veterans and getting homeless vets off the streets.
OOps now we're both probably in trouble. Add my sorry to tyree's
Lots of applause. They like what Bush is saying.
Now that bush is comparing Iraq and Vietnam does that mean that we have to invade Vietnam again ? We can "fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here".
Yay! Bush is going to give us a history lesson!
We gotta protect them young and emerging democracies in the Middle East. Is he talking about Iran?
Oh, and our current support for veterans is the highest ever in history.
Sounds like Bush is campaigning for office.
bill w, be quiet for God's sake, don't give them any ideas.
Weaseldog, that's exactly what I was going to say. He is acting strange. He's doing his cowboy accent again and yelling. WTF is he doing? He's slurring words, skipping over words and acting bizarre.
bush is full of shit , veterans heath care has slid down the shit shute , ive seen how great bushes health care for vets is they cut down on how many times you see the doc to once a yr , at the va unless you go to a lot of trouble for more attention they delay you getting your meds i suppose they feel after you go without for a while youll loose faith in the system , but these guys in that aduience will lick bushes nuts till they turn raw!praise de lard!
[Deleted. Off topic blogwhoring]
[Deleted. Off topic blogwhoring]
Yeah he says that as president, he's going to expand care for veterans. It sounds like he is campaigning for another term as president.
That just doesn't sound like something a president should say when they're time is almost run out. He's had more than six years to get these things done, and he's been doing the opposite.
He says we are fighting a war of ideology, just like in Vietnam.
Did anyone notice the article on Drudge that Osama bin Laden is alive? Jeez, same tired old shit, same spin, same timing, give me a f*cking break.
Oh, we're occupying Iraq to give them women's rights....
Unless I misunderstood her, I think Heidi Collins on CNN just associated the Khmer Rouge with Vietnam. The Killing Fields were not in Vietnam. The Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot were responsible for the ethnic cleansing in Cambodia. The ethnic cleansing was brought to an end by the invasion of Cambodia by the Vietnamese Army. I hope I misunderstood her, but if the media can't get it right, then the President can say anything he wants without fear of correction.
He's not comparing Vietnam and Iraq, he's comparing Japan and Iraq.
Is this leading up to the use of nuclear weapons in Iraq?
pissed off patricia @ 86:
yes pissed off i heard that , and oj simpson didnt deserve to be treated so harshly , he didnt say that but others did back then , the fact is had they not freed oj half of la would have been burnt down and the prosacuters for la knew that and allowd him to go free, oh hey im a bigot right , a racist, hey so be it , but its the truth!
Why doesn't Bush speechify in front of a bunch of unscreened Vietnam Vets?
He's doing nothing but giving a fu*king history lesson. At the beginning when he was talking about health care for vets, I thought I heard him say that was what you would get with geo w bush as president. That was very strange. He's back to squinting his eyes and looking around while the audience claps. Watch, pretty soon he'll wipe his nose with his finger like he's a tough guy. He usually does that when he feels tough and comfortable with his audience.
The historical background of Vietnam is that we entered the country as observers providing training and logistics. The Iraq police action began as we were commissioned to be the enforcers of U.N. resolutions and then branched out into a conflict created by false intelligence and myth.
The Vietnam conflict was an action to prevent the spread of communism while in the Iraqi conflict we seek to prevent the spread of terrorism. It should be obvious that both communism and terrorism exist as inherited ideology indoctrinated in the youth under it's umbrella.
The Bush Doctrine maintains the belief that when capitalism is applied to nation states that this will create a peaceful utopia where all benefit. The truth is that communism, terrorism, and capitalism have much in common, they all benefit the present dicators or tyrants in authority.
The comparison of Iraq with Vietnam is not legitimate, in Vietnam we fought along side the people that were persecuted. In Iraq we have recently joined with those responsible for atrocities committed under Saddam, the Sunni Bathists who persecuted the Shia majority.
The reality of Vietnam was constant engagement of the enemy not police actions or allowing the Viet-cong to become part of the government. Iraq is ripe with Iranian influence and continues to spread and paying off our enemies with taxpayer currency is not a solution this only provides more ammunition for the enemy.
A crappy history lesson at that. All the great things in the world, happened because America fought losing wars.
Japan is a great nation because the US fought and defeated Japan.
Korea is a great nation because the US fought and lost a war there.
Vietnam is a great nation because the US fought and lost a war there.
Slaughtering people makes for great nations....
Yeah, the US pulled out of Vietnam, and the commies followed them home! And Vietnam completely collapsed! It's simply gone! The communists constructed a super-secret freedom-attacking research centre on the smoldering remains where Vietnam once stood. From this very centre, the communists invented Islam, a religion specifically designed for hating freedom and Jesus with.
This was just the beginning of the facility's assault on good goodness. One of their better-known creations and technological breakthroughs was a freedom-hating cyborg. Its name? Osama Bin-Laden. Sounds crazy? "Osama" is the Vietnamese word for "Cyborg"; literally translates as "Metal Man". Inconclusive, perhaps, if it weren't for the fact that "Bin-Laden" translates from Vietnamese literally as "Hate-Freedom"!
I can make angry hornets fly out of my brain! DIEDIEDIE!
I'm watching this prick's speech live right now and it's all I can do to keep from throwing things at the TV. He's spouting the same B.S. we always hear. What's new about this speech? NOTHING!
If we lose in Iraq, we are doomed! Doomed he says! Doomed!
Oh my God, the terrorists will be emboldened! They will breed and multiple, then death and destruction will spread through the streets of America!
If we lose in Iraq, the terrorists will invade America and conquer us!
Yay! God wants it! The creator wants us to win in Iraq and give them freedom!
He managed to go from talking about nam, to talking about terrorists, to talking about 9-11. Talk about connecting some funky dots. He's doing string art.
We fought nauseism!
:lol:
Is that rug we might pull out from under our troops one of the ones Lindsey graham bought on his shopping spree over there?
you can argue that american troops lost in korea, ill state what our orders were under the united nations orginization ,who we were under for three yrs [ our orders were , ingauge norh korean troops who have invaded south korea , return the lines to the 38th paraell, and cease fire at that point unless attacked further , we did that .mc carther a republican convinced truman to cross the thiryeight parrell and destroy all north korean troops and truman with trebadations agreed if mac wouls assure him the chinese would not intervene, mac said that china would not dare attack us, so much for smart generals predictions , so it wasnt draw we didnt loose and millions of south koreans live in freedom because we were there , but iraq is not korea and you cant compare one to the other,
pissed off patricia @ 115:
It must be.
Ok, I understand now. Once we slaughter enough Iraqis, they will love us and be our friends.
Everything will be all better when we are dead. History will redeem Bush.
BillT @ 81:
Wow, that analogy is almost as cogent and accurate as Dubya's. Did you get your information first hand (in country)? Were you even alive then? Did you actually spit on Vietnam veterans when they came home, or do you just do it rhetorically and anonymously here?
To the right wingnuts.
The "Domino Theory" was wrong, and is STILL wrong.
Here's a common sense lesson...two wrongs don't make a right. It will only kill more soldiers and civilians needlessly.
Michael @ 62:
Ah, thank you. I thought I was going mad.
[Deleted and banned]
Here's a sad and tragic truth of this ....president's (*gagging*)....speech---- there are americans out there who will buy into it, believe it, and perpetuate this obscenity. I can't think of anything sadder.....really.
Dan Moe @ 122:
i smell a deleted anti semetic comeing on here !
He was basically saying if you want our troops out of Iraq then you are letting the terrorist win and giving in to them as they predicted we would. That's lousy logic, but like spanky says, people will buy into it.
pissed off patricia @ 125:
thiers no money in peace , the end of the cold war was bad for buisness!
Ok, so the lesson we got from Japan, Korea and Vietnam, is if we don't stay in Iraq forever, then the terrorists will quickly invade and conquer the US, then all of our women will have to wear Bhurkas and they'll lose the right to vote.
Thank you for clarifying that Bush.
That's about what I got out of it too, weaseldog. So I guess we are in Iraq killing people and getting people killed until the Iraqi people can hold elections and vote their own desires. Oh wait. They already did that. Okay don't pull the rug out from under our troops ask them to step off it and onto a plane to come home. We'll leave the rug behind.
Tim in Japan @ 26:
Liberal AND Proud @ 120:
Yeah, I'd say 58,000 dead is an unacceptable number. Despite that ghastly figure, they manage to flap on about how, if we had stayed, we would have won! Golly-willickers! What would have been the prize? The complete annhiliation of the American male populace under 30?
Also, heard yesterday that the latest Lancet study reports the Iraqi death toll since the invasion is now up to 1 million.
The Bush argument has progressed slowly through these stages...
1. This is just like WW2.
2. This is NOTHING like Vietnam.
3. This could become like Vietnam if we don't get our funding.
4. This is exactly like Vietnam, so clearly we have to stay.
No wait- let me try that again.
1. This is NOTHING like Vietnam, so clearly we should stay.
3. This could become like Vietnam if we don't get our funding.
4. This is exactly like Vietnam, so clearly we have to stay.
Yes, that's better.
Vacuus Deus @ 31:
Classic!
hmoore @ 133:
bet when this warmonger ducked out of going to the nam he never thought hed be standing before a bunch of useless tools from the vfw teliing them how great they were for not being to chickenshit to go,
So, we need 52,000 more dead troops before we pull out of Iraq?
CalGal @ 135:
it will make a great addition to the war memmorials in washington!
CalGal @ 135:
More like 55,000.
D to the Izzle @ 67:
Well, I dunno how many there were, but Brown and Root was in Vietnam, too,
building lots of stateside type AFB's and the like.
Here's the connections:
Vietnam war was wrong, Iraq invasion was wrong.
Quagmire in Vietnam, quagmire in Iraq-nam.
Innocent civilians killed in Vietnam, innocent civilians killed in Iraq-nam.
The US pulled out of Vietnam quickly, the US pulled out of... oh, wait... something's different about this connection.
I see one link of relevance, all the rest of his blather is bullshit..
The one relevant connection... Vietnam ruined Johnsons presidency before it was over... That war litterally ran him out of D.C. He found himself ultimately refusing to run or accepting the nomination to run for a second term... The same will be George W. Bush's legacy in the end... Even though Chimpy is/was too bull headed and myopically focussed on the other onerous aspects of the neocon domestic agenda to redo this nations social infrastructure to recognize the shithole he was diving into dragging the nation along with him .. The true lasting memory,will be his insistence to continue this godforsaken war HE started for NO GOOD reason.. It will be his tainted legacy and a primary reason neocons and other apologists for these fascist based
ideals will point to later as the reason their worldview failed...
It won't be the bankrupt nature of the neocon ideal itself.. It will be Chimpies poor stewardship in implementing this vision that will be sited. It will be the ultimate irony of the right... They will philosophically throw Chimpy under the bus after he's gone in order to save the reputation of this evil ideology that wants among other things to redistribute the nations wealth into the upper class and create a permanent two tired society. Just one of many ills this worldview would install on all of us....
In short, all other tangents aside, Vietnam is an anchor and chain around LBJ for all time... Iraq will be a similar anchor and chain around Bush's neck as well... for all time....
One more comment as regards dominos... or checkers or chess pieces... or what the fuck ever... I remember the oh so scary domino theory... 'Oooo if we don't stop them in Vietnam, that country will be the first domino to fall to the scurge of communism'...Oooo it's the boogieman in red... Riiigghhtt... And we don't want to find out the next 'smoking gun is in the form of a mushroom cloud'.. blah blah blah... Fuck ALL the boogieman stories... Anyone check out Vietnam lately? Fricking embracing free markets and consumerism western style with a vengence...
The country might claim to be socialist or communist but I'd suggest its a cino...( Communist in name only)...They like free markets and are embracing this ideology... And all after kicking the U.S. militarys' ass way back when...So, just what domino fell again???
Hey, maybe, just maybe the dominos falling are falling to the scurge of lassiz faire capitalism where profits reign supreme and safety standards... Well, the bean counters say safety standards are just not cost efficient...So fuckem, lead in paint, hey it's cheaper to get the product out the door with lead based paints... Water safety standards.. Well, maybe, but not if we need to build a dam upstream to increase profits in the energy sector.... etc etc etc, and the band played on.... While the man with the Temptations intoned, 'run run run, but you sho can't hide'....
Hey, don't blame me, that reality is a little messier than the textbooks on ideology would lead one to believe... After all, one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter..... And yesterdays propped up totalitarian dictator is todays public enemy number one whipping boy.. Dead or alive......
Ok, I guess I'm done bitching about this. Personally speaking, we just need to impeach about 99 percent of this administration, throw them in jail or render them to an international tribunal, and begin to pick up the pieces of this mess.... That's the simple truth of it... All the rest are just messy details..............JD
khmer roughe had took over Phenom Phen before the Viet Nam war ended. Also how do you achieve victory in Iraq?
D to the Izzle @ 67:
The job that Dick Cheney is referring to is that BIG OIL companies need to secure all of Iraq's oil profits for themselves. Dick wants the Iraq goverment to sign that oil contract. Once that is done, then the contractors can stay in place to keep the oil secure until it runs out... (at the expense of the US taxpayers) then we can quickly pull out of Iraq-nam. It was much easier to reach a decision to leave Vietnam. There wasn't this oil thing getting in the way of making a sane decision.
you know, forty years later i figured the lessons of Vietnam were pretty clear to everyone...now i know i was wrong.
BillT @ 81:
I beg to differ. When drafted into the arm services a man must do what he is told to do. The USA Army,Air Force,Navy and Marines were very much heroic and Valiant. Its the goverment that may be bullies but soldiers must do as instructed.
Boat people, killing fields, reeducation camps? WTF? Either Bush is a complete idiot or he's trying to rewrite history. That would be Cambodia, ya twit. God damn, it's way too early for a drink.
For a full text of the President's speech go to: WWW.CrazybastardsRUs.com
The Khumer Rouge was in Cambodia... "the killing fields".
I watched part of his ranting speech. This was one of his most nauseating speeches by far. The talking points that he fed the far reich-wingers was immense.
I was waiting for him to explain how we invaded Japan after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
I find it amazing that someone can talk that long and not get any facts right.
The population of greater Kansas City area is one of the grater examples of ignorance and prejudice in the continental US. Anybody with any sense stays away from that city.
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