About that democracy-promoting agenda...
By Steve Benen Wednesday Aug 22, 2007 1:01pmAt the VFW convention yesterday, the president reaffirmed his support for Nuri al-Maliki, describing him as “a good guy, a good man with a difficult job, and I support him.” As for whether Maliki should be replaced, Bush said, “[I]t’s not up to politicians in Washington, D.C. to say whether he will remain in his position — that is up to the Iraqi people who now live in a democracy, and not a dictatorship.”
There’s that word again, “democracy.” In his 45-minute speech, Bush used the word a remarkable 21 times, apparently to reinforce the thinking behind his alleged democracy-promoting agenda.
It all sounds nice until one realizes that even officials in Bush’s administration are becoming increasingly open to the idea of giving up altogether on the idea of an Iraqi democracy.
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High!
Hope that not OT.
.....and the Iraqi Parliament voted for us to heave ourselves outta there almost two months ago!
True idiots always use words they don't know the meaning of.
He's a sociopath.
Any democracy in Iraq will instantly hate Bush. How stupid does Bush think we are. What he means is "puppet democracy".
One of our founding fathers said that "when man trades his liberties (freedom) for the illusion of security "national security", he deserves neither. We've now lost our liberties in the name of national security so the constitution has become a mere piece of toilet paper.
I'd like to know when we will have the return of democracy here before we go thinking about trying to export democracy to other nations.
We've had our constitution, bill of rights, and all of our checks and balances destroyed by this administration. We need to be asking the Presidential hopefuls about how they intend to restore our system and prevent this from ever happening again!
just who the fuck anoited us the democracy spreader of the world? we have no right whatsoever to push our ideals on countries we illegally invade.
i can't believe this shit is really happening.
I remember Democracy.
I miss it.
:(
I'm not even sure we live in a Democracy in the United States anymore let alone the Iraqis in Iraq.
Bush can pretty much do what he wants with no oversight, no checks on power. Is that what Bush calls Democracy?
US intelligence warns of 'mini-Tet' in Iraq:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2154995,00.html
Yep, just like Vietnam.
Get out.
Geez.
A good porttion of the President's base supporters now know that about 50% of the time, when he gets that glazed look in his eye that he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Yesterday the President tortured, and I mean tortured logic to death. What a dolt.
Curtilingus @ 1:
Speaking of OT. Stacey Taylor was saying that Air America is going under.
He said format change and his show may be going away soon.
Makes sense. I don't think the Iraqi people WANT democracy. They don't have enough access to information to make informed votes anyway.
the phrase "democracy-promoting agenda" is classic Orwellian doublespeak. the US has ZERO interest in spawning democracy, the last thing our govt and mega-corporations want is popular control of the reins of government. it is bad for profit, and--criminally--this bad for america, so the fucked up theory goes.
our history of foreign policy (in both dem and rep admins) is that of democracy-crusher.
and just think of the regimes/dictators/maniacs we have propped up under the guise of being "god's chosen" country.
pinochet
saddam hussein
the shah of iran
PW botha
baby doc
papa doc
the saudi royals
francisco franco
marcos
suharto
i could go on and on and on and on....
I hear Boosh might have a plan B
He said Democracy because he couldn't pronounce 'fascism'.
Bush was right to invoke Vietnam, cuz the Iraq regime is a whole lot like the one we propped up in Saigon. Here today, gone very, very soon.
May I begin with something insulting - and salient?
Are we all idiots?
The constitution says that treaties are above law.
1) Didnt Bush totally violate one treaty after another? (International law considers the invasion of Iraq illegal and criminal - and we are bound to it by treaty - and many more).
2) Doesnt the constitution define our form of democracy?
How can you violate the tenants of your own democracy in the name of creating a democracy for someone else and still have a democracy of your own? ..... you cant.
Is Bush idiot? If he is, then what are you? I suspect he understands this and that explains why he said the constitution is just a piece of paper.
Are we idiots?
Its the constitution stupid.
Defend it.
Punish the 'wrongdoers'.
Impeach Bush, Cheney, Gonzales and Rice .... otherwise what
OTHERWISE BUSH IS RIGHT AND THE CONSTITUTION IS JUST A PIECE OF PAPER AND YOU WILL HAVE MADE IT SO BY NOT DEFENDING IT.
My opinion ... that is the truth ... that is where we are ... god only knows where we are going ... I dont want to go with you ... there are too many 'civilized' places on earth not soiled by the 'american dream' of hedgemony.
Can Democracy Stop Terrorism?
F. Gregory Gause III, Foreign Affairs, September/October 2005
Bush the dictator created a democracy in iraq, lol.
The meaning of democracy Mr. President: You don't wage a war with a country that was peaceful; you go after the Al-Qaeda group; you don't authorize Clark to arrange Bin Laden's family to escape the same day of the attack; you don't bring in insurgents from Saudi Arabia and blame it on the poor dim iraqis; you don't steal their oil and later build pipelines passing through Haifa.....
You don't get carried away by Wolfowitz and Kristol's ideologies to battle with iraqis to protect their asses.
You don't use white phosphorous to kill the babies and women in iraq.
Kindlingstick @ 19:
You are assuming islamist is democratic. Incorrect. The truth here is that a democratic process can result in a non-democratic form of government. Would you look at the US for evidence please?
Islamist isnt democratic. (And I am not a Bush supporter)
even officials in Bush’s administration are becoming increasingly open to the idea of giving up altogether on the idea of an Iraqi democracy.
They've already given up on the idea of democracy in the U.S.
"The CNN report added that senior U.S. military commanders are suggesting privately that the entire Iraqi government may need to be removed — by 'constitutional or non-constitutional' means — and replaced with a stable, secure, but not necessarily democratic entity."
What? They are following the checklist of blunders made in Vietnam in numerical order?
This seems more and more like a "do-over" of Vietnam everyday. Can we get it right THIS TIME?
Hell, no.
Christianity isn't democratic either. It's structure is tiered and its leaders are picked based on the ability to appear pious and one's political relationship with other members of the organization. People in positions of authority in churches are not elected for specific terms, nor do they normally make religious decisions based on the will of the congregation.
Iran actually has a limited form of Democracy, and is probably the best example of an emerging democracy in the Middle East. They were coming along nicely, holding elections, and even tried to reopen talks with the US and UN, before Bush made his Axis of Evil speech. Heck, Iran even elects presidents!
But haven't we won in Iraq? Iraq has a central government and a democracy. They are asking us to leave. Why don't we declare victory and come home?
Kindlingstick @ 19:
i am going to have to disagree with the esteemed mr. gause the third (hee hee, the third)
IMHO, he is simply wrong. or, more bluntly, he knows not of which he writes.
an overriding cause of terror recruitment and sympathy is the feeling (accurately, might i add) that the autocratic regimes in the middle east are puppets of the washington consensus. the rulers live like princes (literally) while the majority of the population laments at the fact that the national resources of their country have been signed away to uber-powerful corporate interests. without a say in the government more and more resort to violence and terrorism out of desperation.
now, i wholeheartedly believe that the feeling of desperation and despair are then enflamed, encouraged and channeled by groups of religious extremists that would not have the base of support in the middle east if the people were able to choose their govt and alter the resource/money/power imbalance, that is a hallmark of the regimes currently in place.
simply put: democratic regimes HELP the fight against terrorism, but are bad for corporations. thus, we do not support democracy in countries that are currently under our thumb.
Samson- @ 25:
The heart of the matter.
If we're only a Republic (as the reichwing would have it) why are we trying to spread Democracy?
What i find almost surreal let alone continually frustrating is how not one person in the media called incurious George on his any of his absurd statements; especially the one about politicians changing heads of state. Isn't that exactly what he, the most ridiculous excuse for a politician did with Saddam? And equating the killing fields with a post Iraq without acknowledging the reality in Iraq now is beyond delusional.
ysbaddaden @ 27:
we aren't trying to spread democracy we are trying to spread "democracy"
the difference? the first is a noble pursuit, the second is followed by a wink and a giggle.
It's all a bunch of BS that GW is spewing, and the Dems have done nearly NOTHING to stop or even curb him.
So yah, he can go to the VFW and drone on and on to all of these aging war heroes about Democracy and Freedom and how Vietnam is like Iraq because Osama saw the with drawl as weekness. He can do that, because he knows he won. He knows that he and Rove and Rummy and the Imaginary Man in the Sky that he talks to all the time, won.
ysbaddaden @ 27:
Dont fall for the bait.
They are social darwinists - they are telling you a lie to occupy what little time you have to stop them and bring them to justice.
Social darwinists have only goals or targets. What lies between where they are and what they want is of little consequence. They will lie, cheat, steal, kill to achieve their goals. Sound vile and unprincipled? It is and they are. Which is why they CONSTANTLY tell you they are principled. Why would they tell you? Because you would never EVER be able to come to that conclusion yourself based soley upon their actions. Any conclusion drawn that is based soley upon their actions would start with their being unprinciples - and that doesnt work in their favor. So they tell you - and by the way - they give each other medals, plaques, certificates, awards cerimonies and more. Why? Again, they need evidence that they arent the unprincipled swine that your own lying eyes would tell you they are.
Social darwinists - get to know them.
P.S.
I know a conservative republican that was given a 'special' honor by the republican party- he has a plaque and everything. A note - he paid money for it. A second note - he is a hungarian immigrant who at this point (late in the game) considers the Bush government worse than anything he ever experienced under communist domination and occupation in Hungary and is keeping his passport (dual citizen) current so he and his family can flee - yes he thinks it will come to that.
Democracy is the word that shows up in the junta's thesaurus to define privatization of resources at gunpoint
Folks, don't fall for Bush's rhetoric. He has lied since day # 1 and is ruling without nomination.
Don't let fools deceive you; only to be wise in your eyes.
he has actually stated the truth,
his 'base', in arabic alqeda. and 'they are always thinking of new ways to destroy the us'....
Among the more tragi-comic aspects of the departure of Karl Rove is the media's renewed interest in the Bush Doctrine and its three tenets of no safe havens for terrorists, preventive war and democracy promotion. Last Monday, Rove claimed that the Bush Doctrine would live on and be the President's legacy. And this morning, the Washington Post described a frustrated President Bush stymied by what it portrayed as bureaucratic stonewalling of his ailing global democracy project.
Lost in this flurry of analyses is the basic truth. The Bush Doctrine isn't dying, it's dead.
For the analysis, see:
"Rove, Cheney and the Death of the Bush Doctrine."
We have given up democracy in America - why not enforce democracy in Iraq?
:(
please help me ...
this is really only an illusion, right??
David Copperfield must be involved..
if not , i need my crack pipe
Both the truth and real democracy would have the same effect on cheney/bush that sunlight had on Dracula.
Democracy is an Idealism, nothing more or less, and spreading an idealism from the barrel of a gun or dropped bomb from an American Jet or Troop is no less a Terrorist act than Flying planes into the WTC by Religious nuts trying to spread their Idealism.
Bush and Republican Neocons have made America a Terrorist State.
America's shame is Bush and His Republican and minority Democrat servants in Congress will never be punished by Rule of law for their crimes.
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice is the Foundation of the Bush Republican Regime and the Military Commission's Act not even the Democrats want to abolish.
Obviously, the puppet in Iraq was asked to give this excuse to dis those of us demanding they meet benchmarks so we can have an end to this occupation.
Obviously, he repeats all his bullshit so much because it's true that any lie repeated often enough becomes the truth as far as mass consensus is concerned.
Why do we keep asking these lame questions instead of solving the problems?
jwrjr @ 38:
Sunlight didn't kill Dracula in the book, and only started with the 1922 Friederich Wilhelm Murnau movie Nosferatu Eine Symphone Des Grauens, possibly with some basis in Gottfried August Bürger's poem Lenore of 1773.
Of course I always preferred getting my burgers grilled than fried.
bushisaliar @ 37:
Where does the fat repairmen with the saggy britches put their crack pipe?
And here it is, democracy, for perhaps the last time...in our history.
We'd best end calling these people fools...I mean they're ruthless, conniving, seemingly inept, full of themselves and very rich, but fools may be more of a reflection on what we are as the "electorate" than what they are as "leaders".
thepoetryman @ 44:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As a side note, just after the election of 2000 my phone continued ringing. Everyday. With no one on the other end. Like clockwork. I assumed there was a machine in a closet somewhere that was mindlessly calling lists of local numbers trying to play prerecorded messages to people and with the election over, having no message to play.
I have changed my mind since the FISA revelations. I am now convinced - and I still get calls like this several times a week, that immediately after the election of 2000, Bush began collecting information. What information? Information about my activities. When I'm home for example. Why would that matter? Would you want to sneak and peak if someone were home?
You are correct. This is a brutish group. It would be foolish to place your head on their plate and hand them a knife.
[You were modestly funny the first time. Quit while you are ahead -- Sitemonitor]
The thing about an external power putting in a dictator, you really have to pick one from the minority portion of the country; having a Shiite dictator will not work as once they get full power, they'll tell you to go to hell as they no longer need your support to maintain control. That is why Saddam, our original installed dictator, was from the Sunni portion of Iraq. To get a new Saddam in Iraq is going to be next to impossible now. We've really pissed off the Sunnis, we've destroyed the Baath Party, and we've filled that country with tons of unaccounted guns and explosives.
If the neo-criminals had any real goal, it was chaos. They want Iraq to become so fucked up that the people there will eventually trade anything for peace and security, even all their oil. The neo-criminals are willing to wait a few years for this to happen, for them it's no concern the number of people who'll die in that time.
thepoetryman @ 44:
Amen.
Keep in mind, the neocons are still winning. They are getting everything that they demand.
anon @ 45:
This is just a telephony computer trying to compile a database of when people are home. Once they have your habits profiled, they know when you're receptive to getting calls from telemarketers.
This is useful info for sales organizations, the NSA and anyone else that wants to buy information on US Citizens.
if you really listen to what bush is saying, the style is exactly the same
used by hitler to push his agenda. shit-for-brains is a fascist-dictator
not a president.
Smack_dab @ 47:
Two points:
1) Democracy has been talked about to death. What is more important and hasnt been mentioned is self determination. This is NOT self determination - at least not in terms of the Iraqi government. You would be closer to the truth to describe the insurgents as involved in self determination.
2) What we have done is criminal in terms of international law - which we subscribe to by treaty - which makes it illegal under US law as well.
Point 2 should prevent us from discussing better ways to implement illegal and criminal policies. Point 2 should require that we focus on the initial violation of law.
Maliki can find some relief in the fact that America is a democracy with a leader, Chimpus Maximus, who can ignore the will of the people and the Congress at his pleasure.
bush's definition of "Democracy" in Iraq: U.S. Oil Concessions!
As my bumper sticker says:
Be Nice to America, or we'll Bring Democracy to your Country.
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