Open Thread: California Considers Hemp Pilot Program
By bluegal Thursday Aug 23, 2007 10:30pm 
From The Largest Minority:
The United States is the only industrialized nation where hemp is not an established crop, much to the delight of oil, coal, and chemical industries which benefit from the ban.
Cultivation of hemp is currently illegal under US federal law thanks to the lobbying of the aforementioned groups. The California Narcotic Officers’ Association has testified that the passage of such a bill would only make law enforcement more difficult because farmers might hide illegal marijuana in their legal hemp fields. I could be wrong, but it seems like this association is either admitting that they’re too incompetent to do their jobs correctly, or they’re making the case for the legalization of marijuana so that they’re not forced to make the distinction. Either way, I say let the layoffs begin.
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There are a lot of studies on the social and economic benefits of legalizing marijuana. Many (but not all) of these studies are based on Holland's and Switzerland's experiences. Of course, this is not about economics but legislating morality...
Kick Ass!!!
4:20
Somewhere
Legalized Hemp is a good idea, so is legalized marijuana. The economic benefit alone is worth the repeal of the current statutes (it would legitimize the underground economy and provide a much needed source of revenue to individuals and government). The trick would be to not let corporate giants take over the industry. Something along the lines of: Any single grower of Marijuana for consumption may grow, package and sell up to 20 lbs. per year. The market would then foster healthy competition. Of course, this is far too simple and beneficial to too many people, especially in a "free" country.
theres a reason it's the largest cash crop in the states
i don't see any difference in weed and alcohol. just tax weed like they do
booze and everyones happy, no pun intended. i don't use either, but just apply the
same rules and laws to weed like booze. we could use the extra taxes and there would definitely be a windfall here.
Union Carbide, et al, kill millions with impunity, but at least they don't smoke marijuana.
All I know is, you just gave me an excuse to take a bong hit.
From Humboldt County, where the hemp we grow doesn't make very good rope, just good dope.
edgar @ 7:
Reminds me of the recent movie Child of Man. 20 years in the future they pharmas will mail a suicide kit to your door, but smoking pot is still illegal.
The idea that you could hide marijuana plants in a field of hemp has been proven false. I mean you could do it, but apparantly during pollination the marijuana plants won't flower correctly and thus won't produce the dried flower which is the part that is consumed (smoked, vaporoized, baked, etc).
Very important short video by L.E.A.P. (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)
http://leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28
The war on drugs, like the war on terror, is bunkum.
...
This shows a profound lack of understanding by the CNOA. Marijuana grown for hemp and marijuana grown for bud look markedly different. If you cannot tell them apart at a glance you should not be working in this area of enforcement. Secondly (correct me if I am wrong), marijuana grown for hemp is not carefully sexed and all plants are allowed to mature. If I am correct in this, it means that there would be a considerable number of males maturing and releasing their pollen. This would mean that all females in the region would be fertilized by the hemp males and would go to seed making them impossible to sell to any but the truly desperate or ignorant. Marijuana grown for smoking purposes would be forced indoors making enforcement easier, not more difficult.
dadams @ 6:
Could support a free health clinic in every neighborhood in America, I'd guess.
Drugs are a health problem, not a criminal one.
...
I heard Castro died.
Maybe George will surprise us all and invade......
Cuba!
WooHoo!
You just have to follow the money. It is in no ones interest to legalize marijuana in the United States. Law Enforcement- less money from drug seizures, layoffs of thousands of narcotics officers, prisons going empty, etc. Alcohol Manufacture/Distributors- huge decline in sales, stock prices plummeting, layoffs, plant closings, etc. Tobacco- ditto, etc. Government- less money, less power, less bureaucracy, etc. Pharmaceutical Companies- huge losses across the board with fewer drug sales, less power, etc.
If California were to even legalize hemp production, the Federal Government's black boot would stamp it out of existence, just as they are currently raiding legal marijuana clinics all over the state. Something radical will have to occur before we will ever see the end of prohibition.
No new taxes.
That's like taxing produce.
Drugs are a problem in America.......the legal ones!
Awesome Jon Stewart for putting on the author of the Military Counter Insurgency Handbook, What's next the CIA South American Torture Handbook, ooops that already came out . If this was an isolated case that wld be another case , however there's several interviews kibitzing with Kristol, with mild disagreements , lots of laughter, and plenty of politeness for the war criminal WK, not to mention many right wingers and supporters of the war . But why is it the "liberal" that's always compromising , inviting on INTELLIGENCE AGENTS, (there have been several times) on the Daily Show, advancing this " we went there for democracy " and Stewart NEVER has had the balls to say " IT AN OCCUPATION " why do you call only sectarian , oh poor bush , he screwed up the democracy thing " heeheehee. It WAS NEVER about "democracy" it was about grabbing Iraq's OIL . But he plays the same main stream media kabuki dance , talking about helping the Iraqis with a new democracy, and I knew RIGHT away , Stewart's ass muscles were tightening up because HE KNEW REAL, INFORMED PROGRESSIVES would say HEY, draw the FKN line Stewart , if your against the war, either don't have a PSYOPS military officer on , go after him with serious questions and not advance Imperialism and the Occupation . No, he got into some patriotic mode , to frame it in "it's important for the troops " to have a book, that says how to defeat an occupied people, for an occupation .
I'll tell you one thing Phil Donahue would NEVER, NEVER be a facilitator for the Pentagon , not once, so it tells how they control even the opposition , 10 minutes of Progressive view on Olberman, the rest is bashing Foreign ox cart racers, Stewart half neocons, or psyops , Colbert's facetious roller coaster ride, criticizing liberals .
WHAT do they have...FOX 24/7 - CNN "fighting for Iraq" (filled w/Generals, colonels. more psyops),NBC, ABC , CBS all cheerleaders for the invasion and Talk radio .
Stop worshiping jon stewart , bashing bush doesn't for the wrong reason doesn't take any guts, jeezuz , the NEOCONS and Military Industrial Complex are working on the NEXT sock puppet, and it won't HAVE to be a Republican , they all know Bush is politically over. The Uber powerful ALWAYS , ALWAYS , put money down on both horses .
Government- less money, less power, less bureaucracy, etc.
What do you mean? Government can tax marijuana the same way as they do with everything else. It's in the government's best interest to legalize it for that purpose, and the only reason they haven't yet is because they haven't been pressured to do so.
*THEY* say, that the pot is 10 times more powerful than the pot of 10 years ago. Every 10 years they say that.
If so, then obviously pot would have some *VERY* heavy duty bud, and would be *VERY* distinguishable from commercial hemp.
> From Humboldt County, where the hemp we grow doesn’t make very good rope, just good dope.
So we should just promise the Corporates that we'll just smoke it, and not make anything out of it that would replace their plastics. ;-)
Hemp Pilots?
We've had them out here in Big Smoggy since I was a teenager. They fly planes for the Free Mexican Airforce.
This is a current story over at Raw Story .com:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5081398.html
This country is sick.
...
The longer the neocon nightmare presses on, the more prescient JFK seems.
What would America have turned out like had Kennedy been allowed to live?
I don't intend to stir up nostalgia for the "Camelot" of yesteryear.
What I'm saying is, what if JFK's vision for America had been allowed to flourish?
JFK wanted to pull back from Vietnam.
He wanted to scale back the CIA, because he knew they were already running amok without oversight.
6 months before he died, JFK had the audacity to suggest America print it's own money, "Federal" Reserve be damned.
JFK was against preemptive war. In fact, he was against war itself. He said, "Man must end war, or war will end man."
The neocons want you to believe war is forever a part of mankind, and can never be ended. Google Rush Limbaugh's oxicontin-riddled manifesto, if you don't believe me. And judge the neocons by what they've done since Kennedy was assassinated.
The neocons argue war itself can never be solved, much as Confederates used to argue slavery is and has always been a part of human history.
Ask yourself: Do you dare to dream of a world in which war is ended altogether? Do you dare to dream of a world in which you don't let fear govern your decisions and beliefs?
Many of us have religion, but how many of us have faith?
How many of us believe Armageddon is some inevitable climax, and how many of us have faith we will eventually sort out our differences and peacefully co-exist?
My point is that Kennedy wasn't some perfect superhero -he was flawed, like you or me or anyone we all know. But he had the gumption to suggest our better angels would prevail, and that truth would bring us all together.
America and the world have never been the same since his untimely passing.
And, yes, I believe the Texas neocons currently running our country to the ground had much to do with his death, but that's a topic for another day...
19
Kahoneez Says:
------------------------------
when you get your show, you can decide who is on. stewart is a balanced funny show.
if you don't like it, DON'T WATCH.
Alcohol = over 100,000 deaths/year (not including auto fatalities).
Cannabis = 0 deaths, ever.
There is a difference.
The main justification for keeping marijuana illegal is to save the children. But children have easy access to pot precisely because it's illegal. All the problems supposedly caused by marijuana are actually caused by the black market that prohibition creates.
Good luck getting any of our "leaders" to address this issue.
dadams @ 6:
Jeez, there's a big difference.
You smoke weed, but you drink alcohol!
Uh......
In related news, the CNOA also proposed a counter measure of their own, that would illegalize all plants leafy and green, to make their jobs that much easier. (Not that I'm surprised by the stupidity of narcotics officers. It can make cross examining them fun, though.)
dadams @ 6:
Well, I have to admit, I do see some difference between pot and alcohol. When's the last time you heard about the belligerent stoner beating up his wife?
But yes, legal, regulated and taxed is far better than outlawed and underground. Our so called war on drugs is an unmitigated disaster. And it'd be cool to run a campaign pledging to lower everyone's taxes dramatically by eliminating vice squads. ;)
seatofpants @ 15:
Heh, actually, one of the ironic benefits of a crazy conservative Court might be a revamping of Commerce Clause doctrine. Yes, the federal government currently derives its power to outlaw drugs from the power to regulate interstate commerce. (And yes, Constitutional Law is a wacky, wacky world.) Conservatives on the Court are consistently more apt to strike down laws based on Commerce Clause authority than liberals. When the medical marijuana case got to the Supremes, indeed it was the liberal wing that upheld the federal government's power to arrest and jail the dying.
24
Karl Bauer Says:
===================
the global banking consortium had "all" to do with kennedys' death.
That's like banning hay because you don't like needles.
You got to kidding? What grower in their right mind? Is going to take the time to grow high quality cannabis in a field of hemp. Like it won't get cross pollinated. Just to harvest crap in Oct.
but seriously folks bill mahers not that funny if it wasnt for tim robbins his show would have been shit tonight!
as a doctor, never have I seen anyone hurt by marijuana, alcohol on the other hand........
Haze @ 31:
Clearly you don't understand the clever and cagey minds of stoners, and just how dangerous they are to our culture and the lives of our children. Why do you hate America and love the terrorists? ;)
Darren @ 30:
;) Nicely done!
what are you out of your gourd, havent you seen reefer madness its insane i tells yah
In New York City an eighth of an ounce of marijuana delivered to your door costs $75.00
Which works out to almost the same price as an ounce of gold.
$600 an ounce, or $9,600 a pound.
Go ahead and quibble with those figures all you want, hell, feel free and cut them in half if you want, still works out to damn near $5K a pound.
Who in their right mind would want to lose that kind of revenue stream?
No amount of taxation can match that, and even if it were legal, who would pay the taxes on a plant that they could grow at home?
There's too much money on the table that would be lost if it were to be legal, therefore it never will.
Here's a short primer on the difference between marijuana and tobacco.
~Nyc
More American women are dying
from childbirth. Could this
be the cause?
Karen @ 35:
Yeah, it was excellent reductio ad absurdum. :-)
Nyc W. Alberts @ 37:
Yep. That's the fundamental problem. There is too much invested and too much money in its being illegal.
One of the ultimate classic pot songs, David Peel and the Lower East Side -
http://technohippie.com/geeklog/public_html/mediagallery/media.php?s=200...
Bob Rivers: What If God Smoked Cannibis -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB4F_a0Mm60
If marijuana was legalized, Monsanto would patent the seeds.
I remember an article in Playboy years back that dissected the usual arguments against drugs. One issue was the alleged "cost" of illegal drugs on society.
Part of the supposed cost of drug use was based on surveys where the average incomes of admitted drug users and non-admitted drug users was compared. Because the average income of admitted drug users was less than that of alleged non-drug users, they had included the difference in the "cost" of drug use.
This assumes a causal relationship where the use of drugs causes lowered income. However, no causal link was shown and Playboy pointed out that perhaps people were using drugs to deal with the fact that they had lower incomes.
My experience is that the single biggest negative consequence of drugs is getting arrested for using/possessing them.
On the subject of hemp...
Please check out "Occupied America: A Chronology of Nazi Infiltration and the War On Some Drugs". It is truly enlightening.
Please realize that everything, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING that you can make out of petroleum, you can make out of hemp.
Plastics, textiles, solvents, fuels, lubricants, you name it.
The Diesel Engine was originally designed to run on hemp fuel.
The Constitution Of The United States is printed on hemp paper.
Henry Ford thought that hemp was the wonder plant of the age, consulted with George Washington Carver on it's uses, and actually made an entire car body- seats, fenders, steering wheel, everything, out of hemp.
What follows is an excerpt from the Foreword:
"...Much of politics of the first half of the 20th century centered around oil
and the great amount of wealth available to those who transformed decayed
plant material into gasoline for the burgeoning automobile industry, home
heating, lubrication and the new idea of synthetics...plastics. Of the big
oil families, the Rockefellers were, and still are, at the top of the heap.
Those who supported the Rockefellers, specifically the Mellon banking
family, also profited greatly. Andrew Mellon, who had invested a great
amount of money in Rockefeller, wasn't going to lose the chance of becoming
fabulously wealthy. Another client of Mellon's, the duPont family, in
addition to building companies like General Motors, was developing
synthetic fibers and plastics from petroleum. Law firms like Brown Brothers
Harriman handled the legal work for these and others. Media giants like the
Hearsts were more than happy to join the ranks of the filthy rich by
putting out whatever their cronies said was news. These people had
absolutely no concern for the health and well-being of society at large.
Indeed, the less the average man knew, the better for the rich man.
Strangely enough, it was many of these same people who were responsible for
the illegalization of Hemp/Marijuana.
Hemp, the plant that humans have used for several millenia, and the
industry that provided the best in cloth, rope and oil, was on hard times.
Hemp, though growing luxuriously throughout America's farmland, was
extremely labor-intensive. Until the availability of the Decorticator, Hemp
had to be harvested in large part by hand. American industry needed more
than Hemp could produce in this way.
The Decorticator came on the scene in 1935. Hemp was on its way once again.
That is, until those in the petroleum industry saw a problem: Fuel could be
made from Hemp that would burn cleaner, much more effieciently, and with a
greater supply than crude petroleum oil. Rudolph Diesel had built his
famous engine intending it to burn vegetable oil, mainly Hemp. Hemp was
already well known for it's lubricating ability, which was of importance to
the young aviation industry. Hemp oil in an aircraft engine doesn't break
apart chemically at high altitudes like petroleum did. Now with the
Decoricator a reality, Hemp was on its way...again.
Hemp, as I'm sure you know, is in the same family as Marijuana...the flower
tops and leaves of other species of Cannabis Savita L. It was smoked
freely, in the form of Hashish, in many fairs. Hash dens were popular in
America's bigger cities. But Blacks and Hispanics were known to smoke the
dried flowers and leaves. Jazz musicians of the period were known smokers
of "Reefer." The Big Oil folks and their cronies found an excuse to drive
Hemp away: Claim all sorts of bad things about Marijuana; don't make a
distinction between Hemp and Marijuana so the average person won't know
what they had grown up with would be taken away. Do this by playing on
White America's racism. Scare them by claiming Marijuana would drive you
insane or lead you to more insidious drugs like Heroin and Cocaine. By
1936, "Reefer Madness" was well played. Well played enough to cause
Congress to pass the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937. Hemp was crippled. Big oil
was safe.
Meanwhile, Adolph Hitler was building Germany into a war machine with the
same American industrialists that wanted to ban Hemp! Hitler had no oil.
Rockefeller did. With the help of the greedy, Hitler got his oil. We know
the rest of the Hitler story.
After World War II, our intelligence community turned its attention to the
Soviet Union. They sought to use former Nazi intelligence agents as well as
other Nazis against the Russians. By 1955, over 10 thousand former Nazis,
many of them war criminals, were brought into the United States and put
into our Central Intelligence Agency. They brought their hatred, their
inhuman experiments and their willingness to subjugate all for the greater
good of National Socialism. With the help of America's right wing, they
became entrenched. Their policies still rule America today.
The prohibition of Hemp/Marijuana was fallout-part of a much bigger picture
of control of the American citizen. Total control over what we read, see,
hear, eat, and smoke. The policies that led to Marijuana prohibition are
the same policies that have taken away rights that true Americans hold
dear....
READ MORE...
Aaron Russo has died, and I am crestfallen.
From Law Enforcement Against Prohibition:
continued....
So the possibility of a few marijuana plants being hidden in legal hemp fields is such a terrifying thought to social conservatives that it outweighs all the economic and environmental benefits of hemp? What a joke.
Another resigner.
Heads Up People!
Seven more minutes here til Bill Maher on HBO....
Enjoy!
So goodbye Maher (Goodbye Jane) ...
We will, meet again ...
Curtilingus @ 8:
Hey, another Humboldt resident. Somewhat ironically (I suppose), I actually don't smoke pot, though based on the many people I know that do I can't really see how legalizing it would do any more damage than alcohol. I've seen a lot of angry drunks, but if there's anything stoners generally aren't, it's angry. You wouldn't want somebody stoned performing surgery on you or doing your taxes, but all I know is that the steady stream of screaming college students walking by my window right now (being Friday night) are almost all drunk, and few if any are stoned (the stoned ones are quieter, and generally at home).
From a 100% personal perspective, though, I'm in favor of at LEAST legalizing it for medical purposes, as we have sort of half-assed in California. I was literally close to death from nausea and appetite loss last year, and was quite glad I lived in a state where I could get permission from a doctor to walk into a storefront and buy some. And while it was NOT the "miracle cure" some people claim, it did help more than all but a few more conventional drugs (one of which was Marinol--basically a pharmaceutical form of the main "active ingredient" in pot which also helped but irritated my stomach).
I think there are legitimate arguments in favor of keeping some--even all--seriously mood-altering drugs strictly controlled. It's just that the arguments used against pot in particular are between exaggerated and ludicrous. If you're going to argue against it, at least do so in a way that makes sense instead of making random crap up.
MUST READ:
Republican New Mexican Governor, Gary Johnson, Addresses NORML Convention, 19 April 2001.
Please forward widely.
Thanks!
~Nyc
bloodhoundgang: Along Comes Mary -
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3q1zZroP_Fk
Repost. This video needs to be seen.
http://leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28
...
Where do I get my wings?
I suppose if Phillip Morris would be granted a monopoly it would be legal. Then they could really contribute to the republicans. Hey republicans, you already make a lot of cash from porn so why not this?
99 @ 46:
Here's an interview of him discussing his views:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/media/russo_patriot_hero_aaron_russo_pa...
If he were on this thread I think he'd say a man has the right to do whatever he wants as long as he's not harming anyone or their property. And how dangerous is marijuana and other illegal drugs compared to alcohol and legal drugs:
http://www.jackherer.com/comparison.html
Udon @45 hit the nail on the head regarding the elite's motives for their herbicide. You can find indept facts and news articles including "Hemp for Victory" transcripts on the Jack Herer site.
"In fact, the parachute that saved George H. W. Bush's life during World War II was rigged with hemp."-From Dennis Kucinch page
http://www.kucinichforcongress.com/issues/hemp.php
Lake: Scoobie Doobies -
http://technohippie.com/geeklog/public_html/mediagallery/media.php?s=200...
SeaLab 2021
Stimutacs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUM1riMZAOE
Andy @ 60, I think you've been watching too much Colbert Report. ;-)
Spirit: Water Woman -
http://technohippie.com/geeklog/public_html/mediagallery/media.php?f=0&s...
@58 should read indepth instead of indept and Kucinich rather than Kucinch. Corrections aside, thanks for the leap vid Confederacy. Caught it on the repost.
> ... thanks for the leap vid ...
yeah, I caught it on the replay as well. Excellent stuff.
Don't forget about the paper and timber industries. We could grow hemp and avoid alleged justifications for cutting forests. Also, hemp doesn't require pesticides b/c it is such a virulent crop.
Norbert the nark wants y'all to know that smoking mariajuaroney destroys yer brain cells! And that leads to communism!
Thangyaveramuch.
> Don’t forget about the paper and timber industries. We could grow hemp ...
Paper, Timber, Hemp!!!! I win!!!! (
> Don’t forget about the paper and timber industries. We could grow hemp ...
Paper, Timber, Hemp!!!! I win!!!! (
in the parody game of Hemp, Paper, Timber. HEMP rules!!!!)
RPM-45:
The propaganda surrounding both hemp and marijuana has been so incredibly effective that it is difficult for people grasp the concept that hemp isn't illegal because it is indistinguishable from marijuana. It's marijuana that is illegal, because it is indistinguishable from hemp!
In other words:
They don't care if you get high!! They can't take the chance that you might grow your own fuel instead of going to the gas station!!
More from “Occupied America: A Chronology of Nazi Infiltration and the War On Some Drugs:
READ MORE:
Read up on bamboo... I think hemp is stronger, so it can replace many synthetics, but bamboo... bamboo is soft - who needs cotton!? You wouldn't think it, but it's pretty amazing stuff... naturally anti-bacterial for example!
Hurray for alternative textiles!
So, anything that can be construed as being an alternative fuel is illegal? Or is it because it is an illegal drug?
Oh, thats right, one is a cash crop that gives the user a relaxed feeling and the other an alternative energy source besides oil.
Yup. its illegal in these here United States.
Kahoneez @ 19:
Good points all.
It is sensless to make anything illegal, it is absurd to attempt to legislate morality. Does anybody disagree with that statement? Unfortunately, we do not learn from the past and are therefore condemned to repeat our mistakes.
I found this organization surfing the web one day: http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
Global warming is flooding out the Midwest.
Make pot legal? Where I live, the COPS will tell you, what you do in the privacy of your own home is your business, just don't get caught dealing. George Bush was snorting coke at Camp David when daddy was the prez. You think that was street shit or maybe something from the Bush family private stock?
You know, it's very easy to just grow your own.
fat freddy's cat @ 65:
Cool. Sign me up.
I haven't smoked weed for a long time, but I sure have learned a lot about hemp from this thread. Thanks everyone. :)
Drugs are drugs are drugs.
I am a police officer, and I am a progressive liberal. That being said, the CA Narcotics Enforcement Officers Association DOES have a very good point. It's very hard to do your job while marijuana remains an illegal drug, and as it is, it's so pervasive in society that it makes our jobs near impossible at times. bluegal's comment is absurdly unfair to the CA police, who DO do a very good job. It's unrealistic, and I might add, Unconstitutional, to just march onto people's property for the purposes of search and seizure (which is what it seems like she's expecting to happen, if we as officers are to be doing our jobs correctly). Irrespective of any police officer's feelings on marijuana, the fact remains that we are sworn to uphold the law, and that includes drug law. Until the lawmakers of this country CHANGE the laws, this is just the way it will be. So don't be surprised when a police officer advocacy group makes a valid point about police jobs getting harder. Otherwise, you're missing the point.
Sorry. I saw "hemp pilots" in the title and the first thing that came to mind was smoking a fatty and flying around in an airplane.
I just had to share that with you.
I'll go back and read the rest now.
The idea that industrial hemp would be a good hiding spot for illicit marijuana growing is the biggest load of BS yet trotted out in the drug war, and it goes to show that the DEA are either political shills or amazingly stupid.
This is about botany. If you want to grow dope, you MUST remove all of the male plants (cannabis has true male and female plants) as soon as they show their sex. Good dope is essentially females trying to reproduce and not being allowed to. Should even a little bit of pollen be introduced to the female plants, they stop overproducing flower material (i.e. sexy bits) and focus their energy on seed production. Dope buyers want big, tight flowers. If the plant has been pollinated then the flowers look big, but they are all seeds...and hence worthless on the black market.
You cannot tell what sex a cannabis plant will be at seed stage. In fact, you cannot sex the plants until they produce flowers. Even the fancy Dutch seed banks with "feminized" seeds cannot guarentee true females, they boast of 90% females. So industrial hemp--where sex matters none because pollinization is not a concern--would never come out all female. Especially considering how tightly sown industrial hemp is. (The idea is to space the plants very close so that they do not leaf/branch low on the trunk, leaving it long, straight, and uninterrupted for long fibers)
Finally, pollen is a tricky thing...carried by the birds, the bees, and the wind. Cannabis (being a 'weed') has especially mobile pollen. If a farmer planted an acre or two of hemp, no guerilla grower with enough sense to pour piss out of his own boot with the instructions written on the heel would plant a dope plot within a 20 mile radius of the hemp farm.
So not only is the DEA full of shit, they are actually shooting down a way to curb illicit marijuana growing that would earn, rather than spend, money. They could dry up Humbolt county simply by giving away hemp seeds to legit farmers (and in the process give farmers a cash crop that yeilds between 6 and 10 tons per acre with little to no fertilizer, pesticides, or irrigation.
Then again, if that happened they wouldn't have any "reason" to spend tax money on assault rifles, helicopter rides, etc.
"...give this a thought, in stupidness we've all been caught." ~Curtis Mayfield
Well if the congress ever grew a pair ......
If it was OK with Thomas Jefferson and George Washington to cultivate cannibis than damn it, it is right for America.
Praise Jesus.
Maybe law enforcement could focus on drugs that actually damage the community: crystal meth, heroin, etc.
I read in the newspaper that marijuana cultivation in the USA is a $28 billion industry. More than all the corn grown in America. Yet billions is spent law enforcement and locking up """criminals""" that smoke the stuff. Some food for thought.
Elephant rider,
Methinks seeded marijuana can get you plenty high as well. The seed coverings have the densest concentration of resin producing glands.
True if the female is not allowed to seed, she puts the energy into producing flowers and more of them.
But it is not true that seeded marijuana will not get you stoned. I depends on the variety.
That being said, let it grow.
Freedom's Watch, the shill GOP group led by Ari Fleischer, is running ads everywhere, even on my local radio station. These are the people who making $$$ off the war, the whole point of Freedom's Watch is pro-Iraq War propaganda, and next will be pro-Iran War propaganda. They have DEEP pockets, and Goebbels would be proud:
"The donors include Sembler; Anthony Gioia, a Buffalo businessman who was Bush’s ambassador to Malta; Kevin Moley, who was Bush’s ambassador to the U.S. Mission to the United Nations in Geneva; Howard Leach, a former Republican National Committee finance chairman who was Bush’s ambassador to France; Dr. John Templeton of Pennsylvania, chairman and president of the John Templeton Foundation; Ed Snider, chairman of Comcast Spectacor, the huge Philadelphia sports and entertainment firm; Sheldon Adelson, chairman of the Las Vegas Sands Corp. and ranked by Forbes magazine as the third-wealthiest American; and Richard Fox, who is chairman of the Jewish Policy Center and was Pennsylvania State Chairman of the Reagan/Bush campaign in 1980. "
These ads all encourage you to call Congress, but that number isn't Congress. It gets you an operator who asks you to take a survey BEFORE they connect you with Congress. Go try it. If you don't agree with them, you can't get through. They won't even give people the truth about Congress's phone number. Which, by the way, is (202) 224-3121 for the Senate, and (202) 225-3121 for the House.
Their website: Eagles, red/white/blue colors, a woman holding a child (safety...if you let them continue the war), using tragedy to promote war: Their ads feature maimed vets, family members of those who died on 9/11 or the Iraq War, etc...then they twist it into "Call your congressman and tell him to keep the war going...so I didn't lose my legs for nothing"..."...so I didn't lose a family member for nothing"...
KEEP THE WAR GOING SO WE KEEP MAKING WAR PROFITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They claim to be "conservatives", but look at the list of DONORS: all rich bastards who are war profiteers and ex-Bush aides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COMCAST: Who will NOT run LINK-TV and Free Speech TV...ever notice that? Only cable/COMCAST doesn't have these channels???????????
GOEBBELS IS ALIVE...WITH "FREEDOM'S WATCH"!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5479.html
HERE ARE THE VIDEOS: WATCH THEM!
http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=TNTWYnPi8yc&fromur...
Go Big Dan Go!
Iraq is to Vietnam as Dubya is to WTF!?!?
Baratunde Thurston, 08.24.2007
For Bush to sell the Iraq war by using America's most shameful military expedition shows just how desperate he is. He's not just drinking the Kool-Aid, he's freebasing the powder.
ALSO NOTICE...no investigative articles about WHO and WHAT "Freedom's Watch" is all about...in the corporate controlled mainstream media!
DISGUSTING!!!
Only a bunch of Republicans and war profiteers would use tragedy for $$$$$ and keeping the war going!
DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMMORAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UNETHICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE LOWEST SCUM ON EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT HUMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And then if you QUESTION them, they'll say, "Are you questioning this maimed soldier who fought for your freedom? Are you against the troops?"
These people are EVIL GENIUS'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Goebbels/Ron Popeil infomercial continues! Those with the most $$$$$$$$$$ broadcast the most propaganda!!!!!!!!
Look at the DONOR list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY are the ones who want to CONTINUE THIS WAR AND PEOPLE DYING FOR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
talk about lame , bill mahers first show sucked the big one, tim robbins was the only guest worth listening to, jesus youd think he could have found some body but a news whore from iraq who was reluctant to say much worth listening to about that shit hole, and whats with that asshole haveing a reprick named huckabee on who believes noah had all them dinosaurs along with apes and giraphs takeing a dump on the ark, jesus what a fucking boore, maby mahers realy a repuke since he told huckabe he hopes he wins!!!!!
The war on drugs is the biggest domestic scam. Big pharma protectionism on the march
THANK YOU elephantrider !!! I was hoping someone would mention the pollenation problem. Fields of industrial hemp would actually supress the growing of female marijuana crops and make it more difficult for growers to keep thier plants pristine and unpollenated! I've heard one would have to locate one's marijuana miles away from any substantial field of industrial hemp... My GOD. How does this fact not get thrown into the DuPont crowds face when they present this BS reasoning for banning the cash crop that help finance our American Revolution!!!
thats the ticket , weed will set you free,
the world has gone insane , were turning our corn into ethanol and the price of bread milk and even pampers is going out of sight , pretty soon you wont be able to eat or afford the corn it takes to make the fuel you use to go to the store to buy what went up because you drove to the store to buy it, wow its a viciouse circle!
Weed for president!
im kind of reminded of the nixon gang , when nixon took office a loaf of bread was 35 cents a gallon of gas some where around that , nixion sent henery kissenger to the mid east and gathered the oil shieks together and coached them on how to rob the americans , just get a cartel together kissinger tells them , drop your oil production squeeze thoes little pricks in america and youll be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams , now the prices of commoditys were stable and thier was little inflation before that nazi bastard went on his misshion for the corporations and nixon , within a yr bread was a dollar and everything else went up, and that kraut bastard kissingers stll adviseing the repukes ,seigh hiel !
ok..... marijauna...........This issue is so old the dead sea was just getting sick....never gonna change.Because they can't make any money from it.As For Hemp......that stuff has a million and 1 uses...from rope,clothing to paint...that hey will go for.Because they'll be able to make money off of it.Like everything with the repugs...It's all about the money........ Here in Calif it's damn near legal......a friend of mine has his medical marijuana card and just goes shopping for his smoke.Me..I don't trust the Feds..so I'm not gonna put my name in a data base...besides...I hardly ever puff any more....the bud nowadays is too potent.
They should make marijuana like alcohol...don't puff and drive...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D44pyeEvhcQ ...This is just an example of how far back this goes...
Jesse,
I think part of the anger that drug law reform advocates have towards the police is the fact that police lobby very hard to prevent changes in drug laws. Look at what happened in Nevada and Colorado in 2006. The MJ legalization initiatives surely would have passed if the police had stayed out of the discussion altogether. But they didn't. They lobbied very hard (in some cases, in violation of the Hatch Act) against these legalization measures. So it rings a little false when cops say "don't like the law? change it" and then in their next breath try to prevent us from doing exactly that.
Curtilingus @ 17:
ROFL, curtilingus. That's just teh awesome. I don't know if I really would want marijuana legalized only to be controlled in content, context, and taxation. That just hands happiness and freedom (one or of them, anyway) over to the same ppl that have brought you war after war, deceit after deceit, etc. Stonerz have been eluding law enforcement for so long, you try to tell them they're gonna be taxed on it and they'll take it personal, like you Bogart'ed in their rotation. unacceptable. then they'd start grassroots again (every pun intended) to grow their own and the money would go to law enforcement's same DEA ppl cracking down on illegally traded/untaxed marijuana. same answer, no money truly gained, but more for the circulation to keep everyone busy feel patronized yet? It's just like Edwin's quote highlights:
Edwin @ 87:
How pot impairs driving.
*cough*economicprotectionism*cough*
Hemp is a renewable resource. Paper, clothes, rope, floor coverings, and just about anything else can be made from it. It grows fast, easily, and is a completely different plant than marijuana. It could be an important plant for biofuel. It is RIDICULOUS to ban it.
Other's here must have seen this Grass the Movie. Good summary of the racism, politics, laws, and wasteful cost of the war on cannabis.
As long as you (collectively) continue to cite things like the wasted tax dollars spent on ineffective, and racially motivated law enforcement, illogical policies that discourage any real measure of success, potential tax revenues produced by legalization, etc., you are missing the point!
This is not a drug issue. It is not about getting high, or not getting high. It is not about an exploding Drug Enforcement/Private Corrections industry that needs to justify it's existence to to survive.
It's not about the liquor or tobacco lobbies that don't want the competition.
It's not about Marijuana at all!
It's about preventing the petroleum industry, and makers of petroleum based products, from having to compete with hemp!
Those tax dollars ARE well-spent! Those policies make PERFECT sense. Those drug laws ARE effective. Because they keep hemp from being used in manufacturing, by keeping marijuana illegal!
OF COURSE all the arguments for making marijuana illegal are bullshit! Because it's not ABOUT marijuana!
Interestingly enough, 5 years after the marijuana tax was imposed, the Japanese seized the Philipine Islands, a major U.S. supplier for hemp. This caused an immediate shortage. Almost overnight, the marijuana tax was lifted and hemp production encouraged, as illustrated in this film produced by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 1944 titled "Hemp For Victory". As soon as the shortage had passed, the marijuana tax was reimposed.
#116..you are absolutely correct...It's all about keeping us in a police state..where the law can have more jurisdiction and also having to compete with BIG OIL.......they simply won't tolerate competition.....they have lobbiest on K Street to keep the politicians in their pockets..where as the Hemp industry doesn't....and their making sure it doesn't.
Sorry. But I don't see big oil being the primary preventer of legalization of hemp. Hemp was needed to make rope, not fuel.
Don't disagree that vested interests want to suppress hemp cultivation. Hearst was against hemp because it would threaten his timber holdings used for the mills making paper for his newspaper. And his paper promoted his view. Just don't see oil companies as the primary obstacle to legalization.
The plant is versatile and easy to grow. It's has a number vested interests against it. Paper, fabric, composite materials can be made from hemp. A corporation just opposes based on their bottom line. They can be bought off or otherwise convinced (as in simply not having laws making use of hemp illegal). But those whose lively hood depends on hemp remaining illegal will be the greatest obstacle to any legalization.
Stanley Rosenthal @ 21:
I would suggest that anyone who believes this never had Michocan, Panama Red, a decent hashish, or the first strains of early 70's Colombian...
Although I´m not really sure whether it´s okay for C&L that I post this link (it´s a German online shop called HempHouse) I´d like to do so just to show which products made from hemp are already on the market: Clothes, cosmetics, foods, bags, bagpacks ...
The site also provides info such as :
Hemp is useful in a variety of ways, more so than most other plants. Hemp provides clothes and food, oil and energy, paper and material for building. Hemp cultivation requires no pesticides and still produces three times as much fibres as an equivalent cotton field and four times as much paper as a forest.
(I´m not related to this shop in any way. Sitemonitor, please feel free to delete the post in case it´s against the C&L policy).
http://www.hanfhaus.de/about-hemp-general-i-1.html
Half Baked - Enhancement Smoker
Thing Fish @ 118:
You have the Hearst part just a little bit out of sequence. It's more like this:
The #1 product produced by oil companies had been kerosene. Kerosene lamps, kerosene heaters, etc. If it gave off light or warmth, it burned kerosene. Then a couple of things happen almost simultaneously. This smartass named Edison comes along with his electric light bulb, and suddenly nobody wants stinky ol' kerosene no more. Up until now, hemp has not been a real threat to the oil industry, because it was too labor intensive. But then a machine called the Decorticator comes along, and suddenly hemp is viable for much more than just rope! And lastly, just as things look REALLY bad for oil, lo and behold, here's the internal combustion engine!! And guess what? It will run on 'gasoline'!! What's 'gasoline'? Why, it's a waste product that is created when refining oil into kerosene!!The oil companies had actually been paying to get rid of the stuff!! (this is why gasoline used to be so cheap, and everybody was offering all kinds of things from "super service", to a full set of dishes to get you to buy it from them. they were happy just to get rid of it!)
Up until now, all of Hearst's newspapers had been printed on hemp paper! For Hearst, no hemp meant no business, unless...
Du Pont just perfected a process for making paper from wood pulp (the effort to produce a synthetic substitute would, instead, produce 'Nylon"). So Du Pont, the oil industry, and Hearst struck a deal. In exchange for vast timber holdings in the Pacific Northwest, and the mills to go with it, Hearst would switch to wood pulp paper, start printing anti-marijuana propaganda, and once marijuana AND hemp were illegal, Hearst would not only have all the paper he wants, but all the other newspapers would have to get their paper from him!!
And the rest his history...
pussy_galore @ 119:
Amen to that!!
Acapulco Gold
Maui Wowie
Hand-tied opiated Thai Sticks
Gimme a break.
Someone stole my name. I'm the Jesse that posts all the time, and I'm certainly not a cop!
But yeah, on topic: legalize it. Less addictive, and less harmful than tobacco and alcohol, with real medical benefits for sick people. I have my doctor's referral for medical pot, because I have Cystic Fibrosis. Too bad it's not worth a damn, since the feds raided every dispensary with a 2 hour drive for me. Now I'm stuck getting whatever I can through friends-of-friends-of-friends-of-friends. It's bullshit. Californians voted to legalize it for medical use, and even that is getting shat upon by our government. I guess the real law for us medical users is: You can have it, you just can't get it.
The California Narcotic Officers’ Association must be smoking crack because I've been told that marijauna growers hate the idea of legal hemp because of something called cross-pollination. Big word I guess so maybe it is understandable if the California Narcotic Officers’ Association hadn't heard of it.
To me it's sort of like, "Come for the rebellion, stay for the rationality."
All cannabis should probably be decriminalized. It can be abused but, then, there are fat people who abuse pizzas. The "harm to others" argument is also pretty fatuous in light of alcohol's legality. As others have noted, stoners are usually mellow. I took one of those one-day/one-credit classes with Andrew Weil when he was still the "drug doctor" and before he became "Mr. Alternative Health". Said some of the first research he got to participate in was testing marijuana use in driving simulators. Preliminary results suggested that stoners learn to adapt to within normal parameters. Grants for subsequent research to explore those results were not forthcoming.
But I'm not sure combining the campaigns for "marijuana" and "hemp" is productive. Our state fair is on and there is usually a hemp promotion booth. I honestly think the retro-hippie tie-dyed image they typically project is counterproductive. If you actually read one of their pamphlets on hemp's economic value, you are likely to wonder what on earth we're doing eliminating a crop that valuable. But, hey -- stem cells and alternative energy anyone?
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