Tim Robbins tells Stephen Hayes to apologize to America for linking al-Qaeda and Iraq
By John Amato Friday Aug 24, 2007 7:18pm
ON the premiere of Real Time with Bill Maher, Tim Robbins told Cheney's new BFF, Stephen Hayes to apologize for writing a book that tried to link al-Qaeda and Saddam so that it would appear he was in on the 9/11 attacks. And as C&L and many other blogs have been arguing is why are these people still considered "experts?"
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Robbins: You're partly responsible, you could start with an apology. You wrote a book saying there was a connection Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.
Hayes: You want to know why I wrote that book? Because there was a connection Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.
Maher: No there wasn't.
Robbins: You can lie a thousand times---it doesn't make it true.
Everyone knows that this was more propaganda from Hayes, but it landed him a nice paycheck to write a Cheney book. The White House continually linked the two together so it made it easier for the public to accept the attack on Iraq. To the detriment of the world it worked. However, once the American people caught on to the lies of the Cheney/Bush administration---and their warmongering puppets---they turned.
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The QT will be working in just a few minutes...
This is why the Bushies don't want "Hollywood types" to say anything--because they call them on their bulls**t and cut to the truth.
Listen to Tim Robbins slap down Handjob Hayes and then listen to the bile filled and violent ramblings of draft dodging pervert Ted Nougat.
I am glad Tim Robbins is on my side.
As for Ted Nougat, shut up and retire.
-GSD
Damn, isn't this the Hayes guy that got his ass whooped on the Daily Show? You'd think he'd get his rhetoric, er, I mean argument down a little better.
The term 'connection' can be defined in many ways.
The neocons defined it in the most flimsy, uneducated, propaganda, and slimy way they could come up with.
It's like saying "my neighbor killed his wife yesterday and since I was his neighbor I must of had a connection to her murder".
or "George Bush is an idiot. Therefor all Republicans are idi... Wait, this one might be true".
Here's the connection: both Hussein and bin Laden had human DNA. Don't you get it?
I would like to start by saying that people like Stephen Hayes and his asshole buddies will never change their mind. Even when they know they are wrong they will continue the same way as before. The Iraq War, Global Warming, Minimum Wage, Katrina.....etc. Always the same bullshit. At least change somewhere goddamnit, before y'all get everyone killed.
Good analogy.
You have to know that any man that hangs with the likes of Susan Sarandon HAS to be a thinking man.
Generally "Hollywood Types" are no more smarter than our president. They memorize little soundbites and repeat them. Tim Robbins was stumped when Stephens Hayes quoted co-chairman of the 9/11 commision. I wish the left would stop giving actors with average intelligence airtime to debate politics with our nations intellectuals. That being said Tim Robbins is defiantly very intelligent, but I would give Bill Maher credit for cutting through Steven Hayes bulls**t.
Tim is one intelligent guy. If actor Ronald Reagan can
be our president why not Robbins? He's a zillion times
smarter than Reagan was & can really act.
Mike @ 10:
I've always had a lot of respect for Robbins. Hence the name I comment under.
Just be repeating the meme often enough, these folks may have convinced themselves that Al Qaeda was operationally linked with Saddam, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are going to put on the blinders (or in some people's case, put back on the blinders).
All this guy is serving to accomplish with his insistence on the connection is to notify everyone that whatever he says is tainted with a heavy dose of non-reality - so don't trust anything he says. Which may be unfair to his position, as parts of it may happen to be correct, but he will have brought it upon himself.
Not that I care. Keep destroying what little respect you have left, Hayes. Keep up the good work!
Chris @ 9:
Maher came prepared. Robbins still whooped Hayes, who should have been more prepared considering Hayes refers to himself as an Iraqi expert.
Chris @ 9:
I thought neocons hated intellectuals, and philosophers, and teachers. Wasn't it Pres. Bush who said that there were to many intellectuals, and philosophers in Washington.
Anyways, PI is about so called political experts sharing the stage with Hollywood know it all's. It has always been the format.
Did I just hear that right? Hayes' retort to Robbins' claim that Americans were "suckered" into the war by lies and propaganda, and never would have sanctioned the war if "given the facts" was, "Go back and look at the opinion polls" because "the American people supported the war at levels of 75-80 percent?"
Does it get more transparently ridiculous? More infuriating?
We only supported you because you lied to us. / Yeah, well, that's what you get for believing us.
And a document seized from 1997 said there was a "relationship" between Hussein and bin Laden? The United States has a "relationship" with bin Laden, doesn't it?
Holy fuck, our country has gone down the drain. Bush won't be impeached; his administration will get away with everything; the only chance of ever pulling out of Iraq is for a Democrat to be elected president, and even then, it's just a chance.
There are no words to express the frustration.
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Hey, I'm as anti Steven "bootblack" Hayes as the next guy but neither Robbins nor Maher slaped him down...in that clip. He slithered out of it...in that clip. Now, I didn't see the show (and I will) and I hope they do get him nailed but they let him get out of it there. BTW, its a no brainer to punk this idiot. Maher had the quotes....Let's hope he uses them in the part of the show not shown.
Of course Hayes is being completely disingenuous by quoting Keans, a far right partisan Republican hack who supported the illegal invasion and occupation from the get go. That's why he was placed on the 9/11 commission; to fudge the facts and muddy the water so that no clear conclusions could be reached as to the culpability of the Bush regime for allowing 9/11 to occur by either incompetence or deliberate malfeasance. It's not surprising that he has made statements independent of the commission designed to give ammo to the Bush regime and its supporters.
Osama bin Laden had a relationship with al Qaeda but unlike Saddam he's still alive and breathing.
Stephen Hadley and all the other neocons continue to tell the same lies four years later, almost four thousands US dead soldiers later, a half trillion dollars later and long after 67% of Americans know it's all been a hoax. They're trying to stop the carnage of Bush's Iraq debacle from killing more GOPers in '08.
Turned? Turned?
Sadly the American people have not turned. We progressives have.
The Dems in Congress just went along with legalizing the criminal wiretapping activities of the CheneyBush admin.
We, the American people have not "turned" in any way.
We still have a country full of cowards who are willing to give away the rights that make America special for a false sense of security fed to them by prissy posers.
God help us.
and
there is also
a connection between
saddam hussein and
george bush
both are subhumans
heh...
To Stephen Hayes: A.S.S.-H.O.L.E. you're an asshole
You missed Robbins best quote, "when you fuck up this many times, you can no longer be called an expert!"
Shorter Stephan Hayes:
"Just drink the kool-aid, and everything will be better."
I cant believe that Hayes or any other neocon still expects anyone to buy this bullshit. There's a WORLD of difference between having a "relationship" and having an operational partnership. By Hayes' logic, Don Rumsfeld had a "relationship" with Hussein going back to '83. This man thinks we're all suckers, to which I say "fuck you, you fucking scumbag".
AbbeyHoffmansGhost @ 6:
Don't you 'war critics' realize that there is a document, in a language you don't understand, in a script you can't read, that might as well be a CIA plant, that says that there was a relationship between an Iraqi intelligence officer we can't name, and an anonymous Al-Qaeda operative?
I think Stephen Hayes has pretty much established the connection, don't you?
What a shill.
phlounder @ 20:
Imagine if in some other country the "conservatives" spent nearly a trillion dollars (that is enough money to make 1 million people into millionaires) on say-so, third hand info and lies - after spending 60 million dollars a few years earlier trying to find a crime in a couple tens of thousands dollars discrepancy in a president's wife's investments - and failing at both....
....and still calling themselves the "conservative" party.
We would rightfully be laughing at them until our sides ached. But since it's our country, well, it's a little harder to laugh.
PNAC, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, KBR, HALIBURTON, PNAC, OIL, OIL, CHENEY, OIL, BUSH, OIL, etc., etc., etc........................
A Richard Head @ 7:
Well...why should they. They got paid good money to create their propaganda.
Gotta love that Gwen, don't ya?
'Why couldn't they just be wrong...why does it have to be a lie...'
She's a thousand times better tool than the Hayes prick. Hope she got a big fat bonus fer that one!
What are you talking about? Reagan was a great actor. And... he was gorgeous when he was younger.
Tom (Not Tom) @ 26:
Yes indeed, but to the ReichWing 'relationship' means yer were doin' yer wifes sister so it's a really, really bad thing....
See?
Hayes slipped in Tom Kean's 9-11 Commission sock puppetry, and unfortunately his partisan BS was allowed to stand during this segment. I wish Maher or Robbins would have called out Kean's BS.
Michele Martin, another Maher panelist, was a disappointment.
Stephen Hayes is a lying sack of shit.
Now, they are looking for a new Saddam.
I think the gop should go over and run their country.
getalife @ 36:
Haven't we caused enough destruction in Iraq? ;)
Strawberry @ 4:
But, Strawberry, really, what's he gonna say? He's got another book out there that he wants to sell to the people that have already had that flavor koolaid.
It seems to me that he is doing what he accuses war critics of doing... "using the quotes that suits their purposes and omits the quotes that doesn't" Ala Cheney's cherry picking of the evidence that said Saddam had weapons of MD, as evidenced in the Downing Street Memo that clearly stated that the US was "fitting the fact to fit the agenda".
These guys are so good at the projection game.
Otay @ 37:
It is better for them to govern over there than over here.
Heh, as donkey said.
Hayes is an expert on war like Brownie is an expert on emergency management like Bush is an expert on linguistics.
Hayes is also cheerleading the massacre of so many people and yet the best he can contribute is a book I don't want him to enlist, just quit talking the lies that keep the war going on. I don't want anyone to enlist. And you Hayes, get a legitimate job.
What Country Is This? @ 5:
That's so true. Everyone can be "connected" to anything. 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon anyone?
"Saddam once rented a limousine that had been used by someone who's daughter's husband had once been in a soccer tournament in Prague with Mohammed Atta's brother."
Karen @ 15:
Yep and The US also had a relationship to Saddam Hussein as well. I guess that makes the US Al quaeda by that logic too. If A=B and B=C then A=C, right?
[Deleted. Flamebait. Blogwhoring-Sitemonitor]
I don't know why these actors and talk show hosts act like writers are some sainted brand of humanity. They would all have done better to simply rebut Hayes by pointing out that he HAS to buy into what he writes, or no one else will. Hayes doth therefore knoweth the side upon which his bread is buttered, I daresay.
Hayes = WHORE with a thesaurus.
Jeez, there's a connection between me and my ex-wife too, and we've exchanged gunfire.
LibertyLover @ 38:
You're right Liberty! He's never gonna be able to turn the tide with the tripe he wrote. He's after that squishy middle fence sitter. So going on Maher or the Daily Show makes little sense. We KNOW bullshit when we see it, and if we're unsure, we do RESEARCH! They have no clue.
Otay @ 37:
Yes I too think they have suffered enough.
I have a "relationship" with Angelina Jolie because I watch her on my television.
Iraq had a "relationship" with Al-Qaeda in just about about the same way.
These batards are now parsing "relationship". Amazing.
The question is, were they working together, Iraq and Al-Qaeda? And the answer is certainly, FUCK NO!
The US had a relationship with bin Laden and we had a relationship with Saddam. And now we'll have a relationship with whatever thug we put in power (whowill eventually turn on us then fuck us jihad style) . I guess this disastrous war is a self-inflicting wound . These chickenhawks are running on fumes now.
That bitch in the middle didn't listen to anyone all night, she never knew what was being said by either Robbins, Maher or even the dipshit Hayes and she would chime in with crap like the WMD comment when everyone else was talking about Saddam and Al Queda. That's why America is in trouble because nobody listens to what anyone is saying and they don't know shit about what is going on in their own country being perpetrated by the very people they voted for...I guess it's what we have become, but it really pisses the people who do pay attention and know what crimes were committed by whom off!
StirFry @ 49:
Does Kool-Aid have fumes? I was thinking they are running on flashbacks.
myiq2xu @ 45:
Really? I'll think about that today.
StirFry @ 49:
The sad part is that they won't turn on us Jihad style, but some criminal in Washington will make you believe they did so they can bomb their country too. Just like they did on Sept 11th, just like they did in the Gulf of Tonkin, just like they have time and time again throughout history. the only thing that changes is the names...and sometimes the names don't even change.
Devil's Advocate @ 43:
Bill Maher is/was a Libertarian. A lot of Libertarians despise him, but I think it is because he is one of the few who makes a little bit of sense every now and then.
hayes is the kinda guy who when caught in bed with another woman by his wife would just stare straight ahead and tell her that "im not lying her with anyone...."
what a fucking ahole
by the way steve, if those documents you cite are really accurate, why didnt the bush adminstration parade them around the country and the world??
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 50:
I agree that one of the reasons why America is so fucked up is because people like the bitch in the middle. BUt I think it is for different reasons, that bitch in the middle was supposed to be a journalist... and investigative journalist at that in what has been painted as a liberal leaning institution NPR. She didn't know jack squat about anything, and she was genuinelly reprimending Mr. Robbins for implying that the war in Iraq was premeditated and that it was if anything just a simple "mistake." A fucking twit with a intellectual and moral development of a second grader is what passes now a days for an investigative journalist.
With such a lack of capacity for actual critical thinking... no wonder we are circling the drain. Is idiots like the bitch in the middle and fucking human garbage like Mr. Propaganda on the right of that gues panel that are pulling us deeper into the sewer.
Fuck the lot of them, with a white hot iron stick if possible.
Strawberry @ 4:
Its him. He is shown to be the author of 'Cheney', the same book that Jon Stewart talked with Hayes over on his show.
quick time still not working
Devil’s Advocate@43
Your post is so filled with false assumptions, flat wrong characterizations and disinformation it's hard to know where to start. Having debated Libertarians before I know it's not even worth trying to counteract the corporate brainwashing that you've undergone.
1. Bill Maher is not a Liberal. His sympathies are more in line with Libertarianism both economically and socially
2. You are not a Libertarian, Libertarians do not support the illegal invasion of Iraq or its occupation. They are isolationists and do not believe in the use of military force except in self defense or intervening in the affairs of other countries.
3. Liberals are not Socialists
4. Robbin's statements were predicated on the facts, Haye's have been thoroughly debunked and are outright lies. Only liars and the tragically misinformed deny this.
There's more, but why waste my time?
CHENEY CLAIMS ‘SADDAM IS STILL PLOTTING WITH AL QAEDA’
Snowball @ 59:
I love you, Snowball...in a totally, nonsexual, intertube kinda' way of course. I just don't have the energy to take a swipe at guys like this anymore. I'm just tired and waaaay too depressed.
Sorry Devil's Advocate, but you Neocons (which is what you are, by the way) have been wrong about EVERYTHING related to the illegal invasion of Iraq. Tim Robbins accurately called you all on your bullshit and asked you to appoligize for all your lies.
How come no one is talking about us apologizing to the whole free world for letting Bush/Cheney take office, not once but TWICE.
The responsibility ultimately rests with you and me for allowing them to get this far. Let's beg forgiveness and move forward. Get them out, NOW!
Devil's Advocate at #43 supports Hayes and Maher when they claimed that "many" Iraqis want the U.S. to stay in their country because to leave would cause more chaos in the region. What Devil's Advocate and Maher and Hayes neglected to mention is that poll after poll shows that the majority of Iraqis not surprisingly want the U.S. military to stop occupying their country, thus insuring that no more Iraqis would end up being brutalized, terrorized, kidnapped, raped, and killed by the occupied force of the United States.
Devil's Advocate's support of Maher's belief that more chaos will ensue if and when the U.S. were to finally leave Iraq is also quite specious. As independent journalist Nir Rosen, who has spent much time in Iraq, has observed in an article in The Atlantic "If the occupation were to end, so, too, would the insurgency. After all, what the resistance movement has been resisting is the occupation. Who would the insurgents fight if the enemy left?" As Rosen noted in the article, the principle reason that the Iraqis are fighting the imperial forces of the United States is because of one word-intiqaam, which is Arabic for revenge, revenge for the destruction that has been caused to their homes and the "shame they felt when Americans forced them to the ground and stepped on them, for the killing of their friends and relatives by U.S. soldiers either in combat or during raids."
It would be instructive to recall the closing line of a couplet that Ho Chi Minh once wrote which certainly applies to the people of Iraq:
"Ancient shame is never forgotten"
as well something else that Ho Chi Minh wrote that is reflective of how many if not most Iraqis think when he said: "You can kill ten of my men for every one I kill of yours. But even at those odds, you will lose and I will win."
What people like Devil's Advocate and Hayes and Maher fail to comprehend is that Iraq, like Vietnam, has been illegally occupied and brutalized by the Americans and that the Iraqis, like the Vietnamese, are never going to rest until the less than benevolent presence of the United States is finally driven from their homeland. Would Devil's Advocate or Hayes or Maher be so willing to have foreign soldiers remain in the United States if this country were invaded and occupied? As usual with so many Americans, the word empathy is sadly lacking from their vocabulary.
ummm, devil's advocate....
luntz was a good guest who silenced the audience with facts???
whose facts are those??
the ones he made up with his bullshit surveys??
penn and teller ripped luntz a new one when he appeared on their show "bullshit" you should catch it...especially when they tape him basically stating that he makes most of his bullshit up
and god, i hate when wingnuts call themselves libertarians....a true libertarian would cheer if anyone, either lib or con, attacks bush
a true libertarian would want us the hell out of iraq....now
a true liberatarian would never have wanted us in iraq in the first place
and please dont misquote maher....he was against going into iraq, and only supported the war in regards to his fears of the shitstorm that would occur if america failed....now that america has failed, he wants us the hell out
he just doesnt attack muslims....he attacks all religions....the dude is an athiest
and who gives a fuck if maher mispoke about sticklers background....mine safety has deteriorated under his watch
maher may not be a big L libertarian, but sir, neither are you....or do i need to explain that one cannot be a big L libertarian and support this administration's foreign policy and their protectionist policies in regards big buisiness
Bill Maher and Stephen Hayes are both technically correct. Keane said Iraq and al Qaeda affiliated persons had several "friendly contacts" with eachother but there was never any evidence that the contacts produced any sort of "collaborative relationship" on any level. anyone calling that a "relationship" is spinning the wrong way for sure.
This was a relationship with Saddam:
Rumsfeld 'offered help to Saddam'
Declassified papers leave the White House hawk exposed over his role during the Iran-Iraq war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,866942,00.html
U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup
Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A522...
Let's go out on a limb here and suspend reality for a moment and assume Hayes is not a for profit right wing shill and truthful when he says there was a connection between Al-Queda and Saddam. You don't start war unless you are absolutely sure of such a claim. Bottom line: Bush preemptively started this war without the backing of the international community who was right that there were no WMDs in Iraq therefore Bush owns this war outright. Bush is responsible for the trillions of our tax dollars wasted, the countless lives destroyed and our international reputation in ruins....and all the shilling Hayes can muster won't change that fact.
Conservatives exist only to feed, breed and die, and the religious ones believe they exist forever posthumously. Getting one of them to apologize for their actions would be like getting an apology from a mosquito after it bit you.
Meanwhile the blood keeps soaking Bush and Cheney's hands http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070825/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_counting_the_dead and the hands of those who shill for them like Hayes.
[...] Tim Robbins on Bill Maher [...]
[...] House Tim Robbins tells Stephen Hayes to apologize to America for linking al-Qaeda and Iraq » This Summary is from an article posted at Crooks and Liars on Saturday, August 25, 2007 This [...]
Chris @ 9:
It didn't stumped him either as Hayes' retort is without merit, which Robbins was trying to say. The co-chair comments that Hayes holds up are not only without merit, but udderly incredulous that anyone would take them seriously. Just because the co-chair said ,quote "There is no doubt in our MINDS that there is a connection" doesn't make it so. So THEIR minds are now evidence of a connection? Bravo. Please, by all means, please use your ESP to find bin Laden and Jimmy Hoffa.
justabill @ 66:
Absolutely great post!
That's what I was trying to point out. No one can use "our minds" as a evidence or proof.
The Criminal Bush Cabal has lied so much MORE than a thousand times. Robbins' initial statement is key: US citizens (all but the most informed among us) were tricked into supporting the illegal invasion of Iraq, and al Qaeda had nothing to do with that chicanery beyond its value as a fear factor in the lies. We need to impeach this bunch of crooks to set a clear precedent that We The People will not tolerate such crimes in the future!
Devil's Advocate @ 43:
I won't bother to quote the whole thing, but the LAST thing I expect out of a libertarian is intellectual "honesty". I expect you to continue to delegitimize non conventional social organizations while turning over control of the economy to functionally sociopathic corporations.
Hayes is a pathological liar just like the rest of the Bush Crime Co. He loves the war. War is fun when you know you're not going to die
justabill @ 66:
The point was and still is to mislead people into thinking the wrong thing. It is like saying Saddam sought "significant" quantities of uranium when it was obvious to anyone in the know that he could not get any because of the safeguards in place, and that documents indicating deals between Saddam and Niger were forgeries. It is WITHHOLDING the truth when the administration does not correct its misleading statements. That is equivalent to lying as far as I'm concerned.
I have relationships with many people. It does not mean I sleep with them.
This is the Bush Administration spin doctors doing their job.
Say it loud and many times, the majority of the people will believe it.
Stephen Hayes got a book deal to repeat the administrations talking points. He was also told to drive the message deep into the subconscience of the
believers that Saddam and Al Quida had a link. Which they did not.
This was a powerful show. I just wish that more of mid-America would turn it on. It may get them thinking.
I did not hear Hayes say Hussein and Al Qaeda were linked - only Iraq and Al Queda. I'd like to understand the distinction there. You could link the U.S. with Al Qaeda if it came down to it.
Tim Robbins is amazing.
THANK YOU TIM.
from the heart!
Devil's Advocate @ 43:
If more liberals would at least listen to the other side’s argument like Maher, rather than banning conservative/ libertarian thought on the Internet and Radio, this Country would be a whole lot better.
I love when people say that conservative/libertarian thought is being silenced in America. That is possibly the most laughable thing a person can say in the US. These people are the loudest blowhards in the country. Devil's quote also goes into the territory of the "discrimination of the Christian faith in America." Please. Are you kidding me? I think we have heard just about enough of the conservative way of thinking. Most folks can now see that our country is going down the sewer, and I don't need to quote a poll.
Now, Stephan Hayes wrote in his book about the famous "go f*** yourself" moment, that Dick thought that Patrick Leahy was going to kiss him. Sounds plausible until you see Leahy on KO. KO asks Leahy about that moment, he gives a completely different take, saying that Cheney didn't have to spend all his time on the republican side of the isle in the senate, that he could come over to the left. And that is when Dick spewed his flames. And then Leahy said that Hayes didn't even bother to ask him about it. My conclusion: Hayes = Bush Administration shill, pure and simple.
This guy Hayes is only saying what he was paid to say by API. The only thing they wanted and still want is 600 trillion worth of black gold in the ground. This was planned for years, they just need the right climate to strike....money, money , money.
Pricks like Hayes have to stick to the script. How else will the get the Merkin' Publik to go along with a war with Iran?
Strawberry @ 61:
Mike @ 10:
But he HAS been our president...haven't you ever seen "Bob Roberts"? Brilliant flick.
The fact of the matter is that the US had, in the past (and as has been mentioned above), done MORE to help Saddam Hussein's cause than OBL ever could have. However, Hussein retained his power BECAUSE religion played absolutely NO role in the Hussein regime specifically and in the country in general, which would have put him and OBL directly at odds, and made him just as much a target of OBL as the US is.
Hayes IS a shill. The scary thing is that until he is confronted directly, he sounds so damn rational.
pruckels @ 86:
Woops, sorry, Tim Robbins played Bob Roberts, who was a SENATE candidate, not president. Mea culpa.
Tim put that daddy fetishist Hayes in his place. Robbins and Susan Sarandon rock
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Wow!
I watched the video with an open mind and thought Tim and Bill looked like fools when the cat that wrote the book stated his facts.
The distortion effect a political view can have on one's discernment is amazing!
Joe @ 92:
It is interesting isn't it?
[Deleted. Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Hayes is truly pathetic! I bet he still believes in the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy as well.
God these people make me ill. What a frigin' putz!
tim and bill both did what had to be done- called the propaganda what it is...and it is about time for more to do the same...because we are running out of time..tim Robbins should Run for Something - he rocks..
Saying that Iraq had a relationship with AlQueda is as true as the statement "During the cold war the US had a relationship with the Soviet Union. There are many documents detailing the meetings of US representatives communicating with Soviet representatives." Just because Sadamm Hussein was aware that Al Queda existed and that someone connected to him may or may not have met with someone connected to Al Queda does not prove that they were collaborating together. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there is a lot of evidence suggesting that Sadaam Hussein hated Al Queda and considered them his enemy.
If you tell a lie over and over and over it becomes the truth. The Republican Party knows this fact. They know how to use it. They never give up. They lie over and over and over again. It is their process. Sadly enough Americans are dumb enough to believe their lies that it continues to work for them.
Joe @ 92:
Yes, it is amazing what Rush Limbaugh will make a person believe.
Robbins and his wife were pushing Ralph Nader in 2000. People like them are the reason why Bush got to be president. Have they wisened up since then? I hope so.
Devil's Ad @43
I'm just guessing here, but would your initials be F (rank) L (utz).
I thought that was Gwen Ifell sitting between those two. Les Nessman is more of a journalist than she. Her inability to believe the Bush administration lied its way to war proves it.
Devil's Advocate @ 94:
1) Fairness Doctrine: What do you intend by simply stating those words? That "Fairness Doctrine", in and of itself, is proof of liberal perfidy? Of a muzzling of conservative political speech? BULLSHIT. What are you afraid of? That your editorial point of view (and the editorial point of view of liberals, too!) might actually have to be counterbalanced by a genuine expression of the opposite point of view? What the hell is wrong with that?
2) Some lawsuit by liberal bloggers: So what? Whatever the lawsuit is, citizens have the right to sue. What of it?
3) "I was banned from Daily Kos [for libertarian blah-blah]. . .": Waahh!! Poor baby, you got banned. . . Cry me a river. It's the internet, d*ckhead. Grow up. Kos, C&L, Little Green Footballs and FreeRepublic are private sites. They ban people sometimes, for whatever reason they see fit. In my experience, Liberal blogs are WAY more receptive to opposition commentary than Rightie/Neocon sites. Try this, I dare you: go to FreeRepublic and make a mildly positive comment about Hillary Clinton or Al Gore or Gun Control or the anti-war point of view. Go on, just for the heck of it. Guess what? Instant banning. There is simply no tolerance on the part of Freepers for ANY statement that conflicts with received Conservative opinion. None whatsoever. If you think Daily Kos is unfair, try what your own side practices as a matter of course.
4) Supposed threats of violence against Conservatives: Give one example, please, a real threat that was proven after the fact. And don't make it Ann Coulter or other whorish shill who uses controversy to peddle books. Funny how pro-war Conservatives sneer at Liberals and mock them as cowardly cut 'n runners, then turn around and complain about the big mean old Liberals and their terrible threats. Bunch of whiners.
Yeah, he said there was a "relationship" between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Maybe someone in Iraq was in Al Qaeda......they are really reaching because they know there was no relationship between Saddam and Osama. Or maybe someone in Al Qaeda had an in-law from Iraq. Or maybe someone from Al Qaeda had read about Iraq in an encyclopedia at one point. These fucktards must be paid a lot of money for this sort of douchebaggery. What a fucker. They really should have smacked down his vague language better. And the iron(y) deficiency is incredible that he has the nerve to suggest that war critics are cherry pickers....while they don't even pick different parts of information. They absolutely choose different justifications for the war. Geez, I shhouldn't watch this before going to bed. It makes my blood pressure go up.
Devil's Advocate-you're just another shill. Fuck off, you're not wanted here.
Cheney's gerbil made a reference to a 1997 document demonstrating that AQ and SH had a working relationship. Is the original document available for review? If not, why not? What language was it written in? (probably Arabic) If so, who translated the document? Was the translator's name Curveball, by any chance. And are we talking about one piece of paper? Was it a report with multiple pages? Were any other documents indicating an AQ/SH relationship? Until questions like this can be answered then one can safely say, from other evidence, that there was no AQ/SH relationship.
That cut sucked. It was totally unsatisfying because Hayes was left getting the last word in and the points that he made were never refuted (in this particular cut). Everything was left up in the air. You and I might know why and how what Hayes says in this clip is a distorted form of reality, however, to the layman, this clip leaves the impression of an UNRESOLVED argument. I want to hear everything this guy says that is not true get shot down with substantive argument. Yeah, it is great to hear Robbins call him a liar but what about what the co-chair of the 9-11 commission said? I want to see Hayes get completely EXPOSED as the liar he is. This clip did not show that.
http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf (pages 62-63)
The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), which is leading the exploitation effort of documents (DOCEX) uncovered in Iraq, told Committee staff that 120 million plus pages of documents that were recovered in Iraq have received an initial review for intelligence information.
[...]
DIA officials explicitly stated that they did not believe that the initial review process missed any documents of major significance regarding Iraq's links to terrorism. During an interview with Committee staff, the lead DIA analyst who follows the issue of possible connections between the Iraqi government and al-Qa'ida noted that the DIA "continues to maintain that there was no partnership between the two organizations."
Stephen F. Hayes is wrong.
Regarding Dick Stickler:
He couldn't confirmed by a Republican controlled Senate. Although Stickler, a mining engineer, may have started out with a job in the mines, he has been in mine management for the majority of his career. To say that Stickler is a third-generation miner may be (just barely) factually correct, but it is at best misleading.
And as far as the relationship between al-Qaeda and Iraq: give us specifics. Enough time has passed and Saddam is dead. As my dear, (almost) sainted mother would say: sh*t or get off the pot. I'm really tired of hearing about this relationship nonsense.
Actually, the connection between iraq and al-qaeda was well-established during the Clinton years. It was commonly reported but hardly noticed in the pre-9/11 days.
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/indict1.pdf
“Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.x...
The proof that Saddam worked with bin Laden
By Inigo Gilmore
Last Updated: 12:14pm BST 27/04/2003
Iraqi intelligence documents discovered in Baghdad by The Telegraph have provided the first evidence of a direct link between Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda terrorist network and Saddam Hussein's regime.
Papers found yesterday in the bombed headquarters of the Mukhabarat, Iraq's intelligence service, reveal that an al-Qa'eda envoy was invited clandestinely to Baghdad in March 1998.
The documents show that the purpose of the meeting was to establish a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qa'eda based on their mutual hatred of America and Saudi Arabia. The meeting apparently went so well that it was extended by a week and ended with arrangements being discussed for bin Laden to visit Baghdad.
Associated Press Worldstream
February 14, 1999
Taliban leader says whereabouts of bin Laden unknown
... Analysts say bin Laden's options for asylum are limited.
Iraq was considered a possible destination because bin Laden had received an invitation from Iraqi President Saddam Hussein last month. And Somalia was a third possible destination because of its anarchy and violent anti-U.S. history ....
San Jose Mercury News
February 14, 1999
Sunday MORNING FINAL EDITION
U.S. WORRIED ABOUT IRAQI, BIN LADEN TIES TERRORIST COULD GAIN EVEN DEADLIER WEAPONS
U.S. intelligence officials are worried that a burgeoning alliance between terrorist leader Osama bin Laden and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein could make the fugitive Saudi's loose-knit organization much more dangerous ...
[Deleted. Post links, not full articles-Sitemonitor]
From (found link on Buzzflash):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/24/2013753.htm
Bin Laden wanted US to invade Iraq, author says
Abdul Bari Atwan is one of the only Western journalists to have interviewed Osama bin Laden, spending three days with him in the mountains of Afghanistan in 1996.
He is the editor-in-chief of the London-based Arabic newspaper, Al-Quds Al-Arabia, and the author of The secret history of Al Qaeda.
ABC TV's Lateline presenter Tony Jones interviewed Mr Bari Atwan on the program last night.
TONY JONES: When you met bin Laden, he told you that his long-term plan was to "bring the Americans into a fight on Muslim soil". That must have sounded like madness at the time, but now we have Iraq.
ABDUL BARI ATWAN: It seems Osama bin Laden had a long-term strategy. He told me personally that he can't go and fight the Americans and their country. But if he manages to provoke them and bring them to the Middle East and to their Muslim worlds, where he can find them or fight them on his own turf, he will actually teach them a lesson.
TONY JONES: As you say, the September 11, 2001 attacks were to draw America to the Middle East. It appears that Al Qaeda's strategists actually anticipated the invasion of Iraq, and you write that they contacted bin Laden and actually got hundreds of Al Qaeda operatives onto the ground before the invasion to start preparing for the insurgency.
ABDUL BARI ATWAN: I believe Al Qaeda had no [previous] connection at all with Iraq. Because they considered Saddam Hussein a non-believer, atheist, he was secular. So they would not dare to go to Iraq because Saddam Hussein was against Islamic radicals. He considered them a threat to his presidency, to his country.
Yes, there was a connection, but the pre-war reasoning carried the implication that Iraq had facilitated the World Trade Center attack, which was not demonstrably the case.
OK...I'm against the war, I think Maher is great and I love Robbins' politics, but I thought he came off like a complete ass on the show Friday night. Instead of saying anything substantive he kept spouting slogans and playing to the audience. Hayes made an asinine point that since the 9/11 co-chair said there was no doubt about a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that, somehow, over-shadowed the commission's conclusion that there was no OPERATIONAL relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda. There could have been much made of Hayes' duplicity over highlighting the former quote and burying the latter, even as he accused "the left" of doing the opposite - but no one did. Robbins just played for soundbites without substance and, as with this insistence, was unable to do anything but spout lines. The real kudos of the evening should go to the NPR reporter who was articulate and thoughtful throughout the show, attempting actually bring some sense into the "discussion!"
If this isn't big government under dumbya I don't know what is. LOL
To Josh Friday:
Talk about a steaming pile of BS. This is just a regurgitation of unsubstantiated rumors and propaganda along the same lines of Iraq trying to buy uranium from Niger and Mohammed Atta meeting with an Iraqi intelligence official in Prague. We now know it's all horse crap. Nice try.
kerplunk @ 99:
Let me try, let me try, I will take a sip of GOP-Cola:
"I watched the Nueremberg trials the other day with an open mind, and I thought the Allied prosecutors looked like fools when the cats who were sitting on the accused bench stated their facts."
Wow... GOP-Cola is the Kool Aid that sure fucks up with your brain, it should be illegal, crack has nothing on this shit.
I was reading the other day about some biographer who wrote a biography of Goering in which basically he pointed at "documents" that showed how the whole holocaust never happened, and that Germany was actually conducting a war of defence not aggression during WWII. And I thought to myself "Who is dumb enough to take that shite of a biography seriously?" No reading the original poster's comments I know who...
Mark @ 113:
I almost took you seriously until the last sentence...
tim robbins is an actor, and a very fine one at that. but he is first a citizen, a citizen who sees what this cancer is that is eating away at our country. since he is a well known and respected actor he enjoys a platform that most of us don't. he is to be admired that he is willing to risk his career by speaking out on the injustices. whether we feel he did an admirable job or not in confronting the liar on the panel, he still had the courage to speak out and not allow him to merely spew the lies unchallenged. would that our almighty media journalists across the board, would that they had the same courage to confront and risk their positions on the air or in the paper, if they had that fortitude the country would not be where it is today. so kudos to tim robbins. i thank him for standing up.
you're absolutely right about the last statment: there are no more liberals in the sense of what we once were. we once bent over backwards to see and understand where the other side was coming from. we once were unabashedly reticent to point out the obvious lest we "hurt" someone on the other side in doing so.
However, the bush crime family has "cured" most of us liberals of those maladies. today, because we realize that our country is in far greater danger than the terrorist could ever impose upon us, we have learned to speak out with fervor. the danger to our country certainly has not come from without, it has come from the mindless clones who continue to follow bush and his dishonest dealings even today.
i know there are still some honest republicans out there who truly believe in their conservative doctrine and who are not pleased with what has occurred in our country. those people need to join the other side until justice prevails, impeachment occurs and wrongdoers are at the least incarcerated. they need to join to ensure that this does happen. then they can get back to their conservative agenda and we can have real debate on the real issues facing this country. but all comes to a halt until those who have no moral fiber and who occupy the highest places in our govt. are impeached.
The word "relationship" is void for vagueness. Mother Teresa had a "relationship" with Donald Trump.
"Constructive relationship" isn't much better, but it at least leaves out anything meaningfull.
Hayes -- and the others -- are thugs.
Stephen F. Hayes should be paying all the proceeds form his book to the Iraqi victims of this illegal war and he is a war crimina
along with dick, bush, colin, rice, rumsfeld .....
Are you kidding? What's the percentage of people who still believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11? 40%? Or even higher? Almost every other person you could talk to would still think he had something to do with it, and that number goes higher if you include the actual soldiers over there.
And they and all their idiot relatives are going to open wide and take a big bite at the new bait being dangled in front of them - that Iran is interfering in Iraq and that's why we're having such a hard time and are we gonna take that?!
Maybe if we could put little factoids on the sides of potato chip bags, beer cans, and cereal boxes letting people know the truth about these things, it would get through to the majority of the public. Until then, dream on. This country hasn't figured out yet that every time you put a Republican in power, you're going to get illegal wars of aggression, expanded executive power, and further assaults on civil liberties. Nixon, Reagan/Bush, and now Shrub. Each one topped by the next, and still the public falls for a faux-homespun act and some bullshit about taxes and religion. Every. damn. time.
If this video reflects, in any way, the level of political, historical and logical demands that guests will have to live up to while on Maher's show, then I'm not watching. TDS with good ol' Stewart will do it for me -his guests are usually better prepared than Maher's and Jon is not 5% as patronizing or arrogant.
1) Fairness Doctrine. If my understand this correctly, it is the notion that the airwaves not be flooded with conservative viewpoints only. At this point, don't quote me, but the conservative voices on the radio airwaves is 90% to 10% liberal. That doesn't sound like we are getting the whole story. The fairness doctrine is something that Reagan administration moved to abolish in the 80's. What is wrong with having a 50/50 split of political views on the airways?
2)Freedom Watch being sued. Yes, people sue people in the US constantly, and it is maddening at times. But, as I saw, Freedom Watch calls MoveOn not a credible political organization. Right. They are over 4 million strong. Until this week, I had no idea who Freedom Watch was.
3)Being banned from liberal websites. I cannot defend any of this, however, if one is polite, one should be able to express their views without being flamed. (Probably wishful thinking, idealism) And, one time, I attempted to defend Al Gore about trying to make this world a better place on a conservative website, and I was flamed instantly with insults. So, I guess, welcome to the internet, where some people feel free to flame others without fear of reciprocity.
4)Conservatives cannot speak on campuses. Yes, as well they should be heckled. The Bush administration has sent our country down the sewer! Just like the 1960's, when LBJ could not speak anywhere but military bases because of the unpopularity of the Vietnam war. Although LBJ did quite a bit to help make our country a better place (civil rights, medicare, student loan programs, HUD, Public Radio/TV), all that didn't matter to students because their fellow countrymen were being killed for a cause they did not think was legitimate. The student flaming of Andy Card in May in Amherst MA was totally appropriate as none of this administration has taken any responsibility for this stupid war we are in now. When people who do not agree with politicians decisions are not allowed to be in attendance at a their rallies (all of Bush and Cheney's speeches), we are in trouble.
here's the point.
Iraq may have had a 'relationship' with al qiada, but let me remind everyone THE UNITED STATES HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH AL QIADA
Josh Friday @ 110:
Theres a awful lot of "IFs" in all these.....which makes me see ..Speculation...BUT...it does bring up the larger Question.......With all this intel(regardless if it's speculation or not)...Why did the attacks on 9/11 happen?....the premise that we didn't see it coming is and has been BS...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.x... The last paragraph puts it clearly......
#108 Josh, it's true there was a link. Aside from all the hard real evidence. It doesn't take a leap of logic but it would seem that Iraq which was a communist dictatorship wouldn't want anything more than to strike against America, after all they fumbled on that one a few times. And Al Quidas said goal is to Islamify the world under their brand of sharia law (basically reinstate the caliph and create a harsh dictatorship), and they bombed WTC twice with the intent to further their goals. Now I know under their system of logic there can only one evil demigod for the middle east but wouldn't one think it would be logical that they had a pact to take potshots at their greater enemy?
some1 @ 121:
Writing a book makes you a war criminal? Authors should be careful what they right because they may be prosecuted as war criminals once the WH changes hands? Talk about a threat to free speach ...
Robbins: You can lie a thousand times—it doesn’t make it true
Tim Robbins is right. This is a standard neo-nut ploy. No matter how wrong or outrageous their statement may be, they repeat it over and over hoping people will believe it.
etheberge @ 41:
Hayes is a Right-Wing Hack.
I think that we should start the draft with Stephen Hayes. He is a patriot ready to serve our country. He writes books about American patriots who have five deferments to avoid the draft because they had "something else" to do. For your information, Stephen, many of us didn't believe the little weapons white lie before and we sure don't forgive the people who told it now. All of the soldiers and Iraqis who have died in this unprovoked war had something else important to do. They wanted to live their lives!
Tim, you did well speaking for us against this traitor.
Awesome, for two reasons - One, Robbins had the integrity and courage to confront Hayes on his BS, which most of the MSM will never do for fear of being impolite. Two, Maher fact-checked Hayes' BS right there on the air. Ideally, Robbins could have retorted to Hayes' selective quotation with "there was no operational link between Iraq and al Qaeda, and no link between Iraq and 9/11, but in Robbins' defense, I think he was outraged anew at the mendacity of Hayes' hackdom and willingness to lie, spin, and obfuscate, most of all by conflating two issues.
I suspect that the line by Kean that Hayes invokes might not be from the official report. Kean, let's remember, is the tool that gave the propaganda film The Path to 9/11 his stamp of approval, even though it often directly contradicted the report on key incidents to smear Clinton. Kean has also downplayed the interference the Bush administration played before, after and during the report, which other members such as Richard Ben-Veniste have been less shy about discussing. Kean has shown himself to be something of an apologist and shill (or just gutless). So it's possible Kean was just wrong, but even more likely Hayes is quoting him out of context to distort, misdirect and conflate matters in a classic move of hacks everywhere.
http://www.joycelynn.com or community currency.org has a lot of info and BACKGROUND about the 9-11 commission.
Thomas Kean is a director (and shareholder) of Amerada Hess Corporation , which is involved in the Hess-Delta joint venture with Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia (owned by the bin Mahfouz and Al-Amoudi clans). Delta-Hess "was established in 1998 for the development and exploration of oil fields in the Caspian region...In Azerbaijan Delta Hess is involved in the Azeri-Chirag-Gunashli PSA (2.72%) and the Garabaghli-Kursangi PSA (20%). It is also an equity holder in the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline".
You don't need to rely on Kean for facts about Iraq - Al qaeda, we all know there was no connects or at least operational . Hell , The U.S. government had a more connection to Bin Laden, and an operational connection.
First I wanted background on 9-11 commission .to know where they were coming from .
Kean's Oil company is doing business in the Caspian Oil reserves , remember that's the oil that will travel through Afghanistan via the pipeline that is going to be built with agreement from Pakistan and the crook Karzai .
Lee Hamilton (conservative Dem. & bush Family friend) according to Investigator Robert Parry, agreed with Cheney in the 80's that he wouldn't move to impeach Ronald Reagan. Even though there was plenty of evidence. THAT's why bush put him on the 9-11 commission .
Richard Ben Veniste, - big part of the establishment, law firm sued Bridas the Argentinian Oil co. to stop it, form building the huge pipeline in Afghanistan, that is now being built . Bridas almost got the contract , except the U.S. oil & the CIA & the bush crime family put a stop to it, with help from the invasion of Afghanistan .
Hence the occupation of Afghanistan, that will not end .
Even if there was a link(I don't beleive it for one moment)WAS IT Enough TO INVADE A NATION???and cause all this misery....NO!....absolutley not!
The link was, that there was no link. bin Laden hated Hussein because he was a secular dictator. No room for a political alliance between a religious fanatic and a secular dictator.
Concede nothing to these idiots. Devil's Advocate, Joe, Josh Friday and Mark are all right wing trolls. Here they are working a tag team act trying to appear as if there is some consensus that Tim Robbins was wrong or, at the very least, that his calling Hayes out for his lies somehow will alienate people who are otherwise Liberal. Mark usually posts Republican talking points and then claims to be a Liberal. Now we have Devil's Advocate pretending to be a Libertarian. Joe tries to convince us that we should keep and open mind to Republican partisan lies about the debunked connections between Iraq and 9/11. We here @ C&L are not so foolish as to buy into their juvenile pranks or be misled or divided by such transparent and weakly constructed nonsense.
who the FUCK is Stephen Hayes...and why should he matter.... to ANYONE..ouside of his immediate family
Snowball: Well yeah you are right about Bin Laden hating Saddam Hussein. But even those two maniacs have enough grounding in reality to know they can't succeed with out making alliances. Don't be so paranoid the posters here come to discuss the concepts and ideas behind these issues, these together are all our issues.
Sah: I dunno either. I think he put saran wrap on Tims toilet, Tim didn't think it was funny. Oh, he wrote something too?
Chris @ 9:
Agreed. I'm glad that Maher was prepared this time because I've been frustrated at him for NOT being prepared for the b.s. of the right on numerous occasions and he himself being stumped and not knowing what to say in reply to their silver tongued lies. I recall one instance where he had Tony Snow on and he was lying thru his teeth but he sounded very authoritative and dismissive of anyone who disagreed with him and was left unchallenged as he told bald faced lie after next.
I wish there was a fact checker on his show that could provide Maher with facts in real time.
Snowball @ 137:
Snowball....Perhaps more rats looking for a way off of a sinking ship.......no?
pruckels @ 87:
No sweat: I thought he played the president in the flick 'Bull Durham.' :-)
Chris @ 9:
I'm not sure you're the most qualified person to evaluate the intelligence of others.
What a scumbag.
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