Bill Donohue issues threat of violence to Hitchens
By John Amato Saturday Sep 01, 2007 8:30am
We already know that the Catholic League's Bill Donohue is an embarrassing buffoon that talk shows love to book because he says repulsive things in defense of the Catholic Church and will smear anyone with his anti-Catholic rhetoric for political and monetary gain.
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As an Englishman again, you have to be quiet when an Irishman speaks.
She said the awards are worthless to her.
Listen, you want to take it outside, Christopher, that's fine."
What's interesting about this clip is when he's confronted by an equally obnoxious character who will not be bulldozed by Bill's tactics, he immediately wants to " take it outside" and duke it out. It's typical behavior of this strain of right wing, Christian Conservatives. (It looks like MSNBC scrubbed these remarks from their transcript. I don't usually believe that this happens on purpose most of the time, but I'm not certain in this case.)
Radar has more...Christian Donohue Says He'll Slap Bejesus out of Athiest Hitchens
So what exactly did it mean?
"It meant, if you want to keep it up, I'll sock you," Donohue tells Radar, adding that the comment was "part of the theatrics of entertainment—this wasn't PBS, after all."
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Apparently, Hitchens doesn't understand what "fear of God" means.
The cons all have violent tendencies regardless if it is Nugent or Donohue or a pistol packing Minuteman. Their index card conservatism ideology doesn't give them any intellectual flexiblity when their talking points can't be used
Christopher Hitchens is still an ass.
I was raised in an orthodox roman catholic home. Which is why I grew up and became an atheist.
Of the five children my parents raised only one still makes the obligatory trip to church on sunday and that's only because she's still trying to keep her mother happy.
The only true doctrine of any religion is hypocrisy and with the crapoliks it's doubly so.
I look forward to the day when all of these delusional militant religious idiots are seen as the ridiculous clowns they are and laughed out of existence.
The only thing I'm interested in hearing about religion is that the mental disorder that causes it has been officially wiped out.
Did you know that under the Patriot Act, anyone who makes a personal physical or violent threat can be slapped on the no fly list? If one of these conservative punidiots who spout hatred ever got slapped on the no fly list because of this provision, you can bet your damned ass that the Patriot Act will be abolished faster than removal of the Prom Queen's dress after Prom night.
Two fundamentalist freaks butt heads and the winner is RATINGS!
jr @ 2:
djtyg @ 3:
Amen brothers and sisters!
Help me baby Jesus!
MargeAggedon @ 4:
My father grew up Mormon, and he had two sisters and one brother. Out of the four children, only one still attends church regularly. The reason why my uncle left the church was he went on his mission late (usually kids get sent off at the age of 18 or 19... right after finishing high school), and the other kids in his mission kept asking him if he could buy them booze since he was old enough to do so.
They're both clowns and buffoons....
William Donohue, a man literally dripping with Virtue.
As an atheist, however, I've never been a big fan of the fact that Hitchens is supposedly a spokesman. Could the networks call up James Randi instead?
--WKW
I've known all kind of half-baked-a$$es in both the atheist and the religious worlds. Me being the first. And if there's one thing I've learned, it is that, in the end, neither ideology or religion, have anything to do with your willingness to walk the extra mile for the sake of someone else's integrity and well being.
Religion, my friends, is not the problem. Even though it was religion what gave us the Inquisition, GWB and Donahue.
Atheism, my friends, is not the problem. Even though it was atheism what gave us Stalin, Microsoft Windows and Hitchens.
You can only change the world one person at a time. Expecting to change how things go by just seeing religion -or atheism, for that matter- disappear is simply delusional.
But it does produce ratings, as one poster has noted.
Donohue tells Radar, adding that the comment was “part of the theatrics of entertainment—this wasn’t PBS, after all.”
That's true...it wasn't like it was real news or commentary. Just idiots on tv talking for idiots.
Go Dennis Kucinich and let's drop all of the sex and violence in politics.
Hitchens' response:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2007/08/christopher-hitchens-respo...
I can see the two chilling out at a pub, seeing who can outdrink the other...
William K. Wolfrum @ 10:
Or Dawkins
Religion is a by-product of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
baby jesus thought someone called for help?
Hitchens and Donahue: A MATCH MADE IN HELL.
Hitchens is a turd but I would almost payto watch him slap down Donahue. Donahue is a sick bastard. I wouldn't mind clapping him about the ears.
Hitchens is almost entirely contemptible (just for backing the invasion) but, still, it is unfair t say he is "equally obnoxious" when compared to Bill Donohue.
Donald Trump and Britney Spears combined aren't as obnoxious as Bill Donohue.
Let's be fair.
I agree that Christopher Hitchens is an ass, but an intelligent and charismatic one. I don't agree with his position on Iraq, but he is the only neocon gives a reasonable answer to why we should be there, which is to protect the Kurds that George Bush Senior allowed to be slaughtered. He did a great job putting Bill Donohue in his place. The fact is we need more people like Christopher Hitchens that won't let himself get bullied on television.
"As an Englishman, you have to be quiet when an Irishman speaks" WTF!? Is this a famous quote I've never heard of or is he just being himself.
Yes, Bill. We actually just expect theatrics and infotainment in any news presentation that isn't NPR, PBS or even better, Pacifica.
Pacifica's real news
Ok. First of all that person is not "Irish." Second of all you'd never hear an Irish guy nowadays saying some hysterical Irish/English thing like that these days. Ireland is well past the inferiority complex.
You don't have to love a religion to love God.
I'm a Catholic who has gone full circle, and am now shunning the institution. Why? Well, the beginning was the support of GWB and prior to election '04, coming out of Mass one Sunday and having pro-Bush/anti-Kerry propaganda on all the cars in the parking lot, pride at the picture of my son at confirmation standing next to Bishop O'Connell turned to devastating revelation that he was a pedophile and now is "in seclusion", the fChurch's ocus on abortion yet silence on Iraq, the $1.25 million spent on a crucifix for our parish, the "naming of those who no longer attend Mass" being put on public display so we can "pray for them" a/k/a "reveal them."
Out of control..
Sorry. Don't look for an envelope in the plate with my name on it anytome soon.
Why is the Quicktime version non-existent?
Every time Donohue opens his mouth he shows his ignorance and he disgraces the Catholic Church. Why in the world any religious organization let nuts like him represent them is beyond me. What this behaviour does is drive people away FROM and not TO the church.
jr @ 2:
Yes, but isn't amusing that no matter what their age, they either didged Vietnam or have failed to sign up and serve in Iraq.
Why do I think that Bill I-stole-my-schtick-from-Carroll-O'Connor Donohue is due for his own Minneapolis Mens Room Moment? Oh, I remember, 'cause he's a loud self-righteous gasbag, and those are the type who usually get busted embezzling, trolling for hookers, or toe-tapping in the terminal. Maybe Bill will hit the trifecta.
As far as I am aware Donohue was born and raised in the USA. Is he ashamed of being American? Why does he hate America so much?
Blue Buddha @ 8:
My brother and I are both recovering Catholics..coming from an Scottish/Irish family you can imagine what it was like...it was the hypocricy that did it.........but everything will be ok when you go to church on Sunday give me abreak.........oh my money is on the Irishman
Who cares about Hitchens, Donahue, and Tweety. Mother Theresa found purpose in her life by trying to help the least fortunate even though she questioned the tenants of her faith. Too bad the numerous pious phonies out there are incapable of doing the same.
Does anybody else find it funny that the head of the Catholic league admits to working in the entertainment industry?
Cause I do.
An Average Joe @ 23:
I hear ya, Joe. We're still going, but the envelopes hit the trashcan. The local Diocesan filing for bankruptcy on the eve of trial for the first molestation victim was the straw that broke the camelback here.
djtyg @ 3:
Damn right. These two creeps deserve each other.
Donohue challenged Hitchens to a fight - over a satellite link hundreds, if not thousands of miles away! How manly!
If religion is so good why do they hate other religions.....Catholics hate Protestants and Protestants HATE Catholics....thats been going on for centuries.....and of course some one will say that their religion doesn't hate anyone.......bullshit.....
I'm surprised these two didn't suck all of the fresh air out of the room.
nigel @ 28:
Wanna bet that Donohue has funded terrorism? He seems like one of those "I have an Irish name so I donate to the IRA" Americans.
Leonel @ 11:
Religion is not the problem, and atheism is not the problem... perfection is the problem. The idea that any one thing, physical or conceptual, is and always will be perfect is the biggest folly of mankind.
religion is the biggest farce ever pulled on the human race......oh ...here comes the basket...nothing smaller than a 5 please....
I've always liked Hitchens, even when he is stark raving mad. He is extremely intelligent, though acerbic and abrasive, while Donohue is a lightweight and a buffoon. I read Hitchens' latest book, God Is Not Great, and loved it. He is definitely saying what needs to be said about the corrupt influence of religion in the world. I too am an atheist. I too find that intellectual discourse and critical thinking is frequently short circuited by inserting the backward and irrelevant teachings of the illiterate. I too find that the people of the US are far too willing to grant any bozo claiming to be a pastor or having some other religious "credential" the authority to weigh in on important issues to our country and to the world.
W i d e Stance []O @ 1:
i think he does and he knows we are tired of a world full of delusional theists....
as STOOOOOPID as hitchens can be in some areas, he can be so eloquent in others. his eloquence helps many bear the constant cacaphony of christian charlatins.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
Help me baby Jesus. Which religion should I choose? I'm at Wal Mart right now and I can't decide. The Bill Donuhue action figure is less expensive, but the Hitchens hot wheels are more durable. Both are made in China.
I think I saw an image of the Virgin Mary on a hot pocket.
Fox News Alert @ 30:
Spot on comment. Most people's reverence for Mother Theresa had to do with her actions, not her religion. If she was questioning her faith, that certainly does not minimize her "saintly" conduct. In my view it enhances it. She was not driven by "fear" as so many religious types are, she was, apparently, driven by a sense of humanity. If we all had that sense, my what a wonderful world it could be!
As a practicing Catholic and a member of a religious community in the Catholic Church, I wish to assure people that Bill Donohue speaks for no one but himself in all of his tirades. He does not represent Catholic thought or theology. Catholic Theology belongs to the whole Church which consists of all the baptized. It is not in the ownership of one member. As a Catholic I am constantly embarrassed by the rantings of this loud mouth. He is the best proof there is that one can be a sinner and still belong to the church. Bill, go to confession to someone you don't know and tell the priest everything you have been saying and doing and then become a recluse for the sake of the church.
Los Populistos @ 41:
This is worth watching...LOL...good morning Los..
Hitchens is awesome.
Long may he speak out against the evils of faith and it's associated hucksters. Wish there was more obnoxious rough and tumble atheists willing to speak up and take the superstitionists on.
From having read the whole story over at Radar - which also includes a link to Hitchens' response - I don't think Donohue was seriously challenging Hitch to a fight (and I would put my money on Hitchens.) From what I saw on the clip and read afterwards, Donohue was trying to be cute and funny, and was even trying to get chummy with Hitchens (note the attempts at familiarity and chumminess, which weren't all that effective).
so who would win in that punching match? i'd have paid to see it.
is anyone else here old enough to remember a peace ad (from the 70s i think) i forget the script but it had two really old white guys in white shirts and ties duking it out. something about how many wars would we fight if we had to resolve them one on one.
right now i wish vald putiin would come over here and wipe up the floor with little george...i know he could do it too.
p.s. but then please vlad go back to rus and we'll pick up the rest of the pieces.
jibjab says it best http://www.jibjab.com/originals/what_we_call_the_news
Wow!
I despise the likes of Donohue and his brand of Catholic intolerance, but Hitchens comes out like the bigger bigot in this one. But I'll admit it's a close call.
"......our debate tonight, an odd one for us....." WHAT?? Bull crap. Mathews spent a whole month on this subject when the Papal Poppy died and the College of Cardinals went into their political seclusion. In fact, he brings up religion just about as much as FOX.
Bush would be tuff to take for a man of equal age since he is in great shape (must be nice to have the kind of job that allows you time to exercise hours per day) and a look at his old sports days shows you he is an extremely dirty sucker-punch type, but once you laid a glove on Bush, you'd have him. I don't think he can take pain. Donohue would take Hitchens easy, I think. Only because Dono would fall on him and squash and drunks usually can't fight very well.
It is unfortunate that so many Christians are unable to separate the life and teachings of Jesus from church doctrine and suffer because of it. Jesus, like all enlightened spiritual messengers, lived the Golden Rule as an example for others who would try and do likewise with or without hope of reward or fear of punishment either in this world or another for it. Belief or disbelief in any god or gods, faith or doctrines, while useful for many, are not necessary for living a Christian life based upon works of compassion.
As a practicing Catholic and a member of a religious community in the Catholic Church, I wish to assure people that Bill Donohue speaks for no one but himself in all of his tirades.
Oh yes he does. Now denounce him just two more times and you're home free, JOHN.
He's the baby and you are Rosemary.
[...] Hitchens vs. Catholic League’s Bill Donahue on “Hardball.” This entry is filed under Religion, Atheism, Skepticism. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. 12 Responses to “Faithless in Calcutta” 1 Raindogzilla says: September 1st, 2007 at 12:24 pm It’s all the more ironic that this occurs just as she’s on the verge of canonization- just one miracle short so far as I know(but, then, aren’t we all?). 2 Fritzy says: September 1st, 2007 at 4:15 pm I feel sorry for Mother Theresa–as she was quite obviously depressed, anxious and racked with guilt over her lack of faith. [...]
But on a brighter note the Pope has said we need to protect the planet(Global Warming)
Mostly, I can't believe that anyone is still actually watching WhiffleBall anymore.
The present debate is as innane as the rest of them. Mainly, who gives a shit? As always, Matthews proves to be a ratings whore, his credibility plummeting.
Donahue is just expressing the natural extension of fundamentalism, which is violence. Fundies can't rely on facts and reason, they can only rely on emotion and violence. Such has been the history of religion with the extremists enforcing their views (which they always say come from their gods) with threats of violence, torture and murder. Donahue reacts this way because his mortal idol (I thought Christianity forbid this sort of thing, oh right, the Catholics just erased that part) was being exposed as not being perfect. Rather than accept the facts he decides to kill the messenger.
Oh yeah, and the whole, "An englishman is supposed to be quiet when an Irishman is talking..." BS is just more good 'ol boys chumminess. If these dudes got any closer to each other, they'd be conjoined twins.
Geeze!
I never thought i would be embarrassed to be Irish.
Hitchen's secular world view is corrupting to traditional values, the media is making too big a deal over these journals of Mother Theresa. Typical of a degenerate secular corporate monopoly media. Donohue should not have resorted to violence though, it easy enough to show how destructive atheism is and all the chaos it caused through communism in the USSR, etc.
A: @ 62:
Speaking of illiterates.
I agree with a lot of the posters here that neither of the two deserves any credit as a human. I'm also not impressed with Hitchens' gleeful attempt to wrap up some of her quotes during life into the view of the world he espouses in his book, and in that manner he's merely on the level of a poster on a bbs thread fishing for quotes to get the upper hand. I'm reminded more of some of the quotes from C.S. Lewis' A Grief Observed when I read them.
"Talk to me about the truth of religion and I’ll listen gladly. Talk to me about the duty of religion and I’ll listen submissively. But don’t come talking to me about the consolations of religion or I shall suspect that you don’t understand."
"Why do I make room in my mind for such filth and nonsense? Do I hope that if feeling disguises itself as thought I shall feel less? Aren’t all these notes the senseless writhings of a man who won’t accept the fact that there is nothing we can do with suffering except to suffer it? Who still thinks there is some device (if only he could find it) which will make pain not to be pain. It doesn’t really matter whether you grip the arms of the dentist’s chair or let your hands like in your lap. The drill drills on.
And grief still feels like fear. Perhaps, more strictly, like suspense. Or like waiting; just hanging about waiting for something to happen. It gives life a permanently provisional feeling. It doesn’t seem worth starting anything. I can’t settle down. I yawn, I fidget, I smoke too much. Up till this I always had too little time. Now there is nothing but time. Almost pure time, empty successiveness."
d-man @ 48:
Of course, you are right.
Bill Donohue isn't any more Irish than Barak O'Bama.
Christian Donohue Says He'll Slap Bejesus out of Athiest Hitchens.
What is a b-jesus?
Do we have a multiple choice if jesuses now? Choose A jesus, B jesus, C jesus - on down the alphabet to Z jesus
Ain't relijion grate? ;) or did I miss spell great?
Dave @ 64:
Why is it that you feel Hitchen's doesn't deserve any credit as a human?
Talk to me about "the truth of religion" and I’ll listen as though I'm talking to the village idiot.
When you throw out the line "let's take it outside" when you're in an arguement.....that means you've lost the arguement.
As a practicing Catholic, I have repeatedly contacted the Catholic League to let them know what an inflammatory bigot and true bonehead Donahue is. He should not be put forward as a "representative" of the Catholic Church. He is a detriment to the faith and seems to ignore the whole social justice thrust of Jesus' life. In addition, as we all know, his confrontational attitude is unpalatable. I cringe when I hear his type of Catholic speak. I prefer the Dorthy Day and Cesar Romero types (not to say they were not confrontational).
With all that in mind I have to say that this almost was a debate that made sense, out side the bigoted nationalism and Jerry Springer-esque call out by Donahue. This is likely the best segment I can remember seeing on Hardball. Obviously someone has told Donahue to tone it down.
A: @ 62:
Yes, thank god for faith based crusades and jihads!
As a special bonus we got the inquisition.
Which athiest war was that we fought again?
Paddy O'Kelly @ 66:
Of course he's Irish - Barak O'Bama. Like O'Sullivan or O' Reilly.
Maybe it's Bill O'Donohue also They are all Irish. It's the cathlick thing.
CruzBustamove @ 36:
Are you absolutely sure that didn't happen?.....
That would have been better than a winning lottery ticket, having fat bastard Donohue asking me to go outside with him. I think I detect a bit of resemblance between fat bastard and Larry Craig.
Cantor de Mambo @ 69:
Please leave "W" out of this. I think he is a different religon.
Hitchens = Smart/Uses Reason
Donahue = Childlike/Believes in Fairy Tales
Cantor de Mambo @ 68:
That might have been a bit harsh, but what I mean is that I don't see anything remotely deserving of respect from either of the two. Debate should consist of just looking for gotcha quotes to back up one's point of view and trying to talk over the other. Wasting time with "I'm Irish, you're English blah blah" "Don't call me Chris, my name's Christopher" shows that neither of the two really care much about the subject.
A: @ 62:
The crusades lasted generations and the dark ages were thousands of years. People like Galilleo were persecuted for making the attempt at shedding the fog of religion.
Communism barely lasted 100 years. And even now, China, is doing fine. They're pretty gay Communism over there.
The debate between these two was absurd. Which one is the more pompous, closed-minded ass?
Mother Theresa was a big girl. No one "exploited" her. No one "made her feel guilty" about personal crises of faith. She could have left it all at any point she wanted to. She didn't - out of choice. Hitchens can shove his condescension where he's usually told to shove his condescension.
And Donohue? Please. He's no poster boy for meaningful reflections on one's degree of faith. He has absolutely none and never did and never wanted to. He wants a badge of "victim" for himself (e.g. referring to himself as "Irish" against Hitchens' argument.)
Che's Lounge @ 55:
Don't you mean Saint John? That would make the similarity to Saint Teresa more apparent. Substantively, I believe this was where Donahue was going, but said he didn't have enough time.
Can't take the drunken belligerence out of your American-Irish blood , huh donohue? Indeed, let's take this outside. What an a**hole apologist for the catholic christianistas!
When faced with the fact that this decade's idol of the catholics DID NOT BELIEVE in the fairy tales fed to them over the ages, he calls for a physical fight. Coward that he is, he said it to a camera!
All religion that purports to be "the only one", and denigrates others, is evil.
Mother Teresa did some good in the world, and for that she should be remembered. Her faith is immaterial, and if the myth-makers want to make her a saint, let them. One does not have to believe in the myths - no matter what the priest may say about sin, hell, divine retribution, etc......
Mean Ol' Liberal @ 80:
Do you understand anything at all about the pressures in the Catholic Church?
They have GOD and the eternal flames of HELL on their side!
I love it when two sissy-bullies go head-to-head.
Hitchens may be a conservative on the bring of neocon but he is a great author and I agree with him (partially) when it comes to the God debate. I'm surprised Donohue ONLY threatened violence.
xoites defends Constitution @ 83:
- Xoites
Sure. And Purgatory and the saints and the angels and blah, blah, blah.
And billions of people across the planet don't care and don't listen to the Vatican. Mother Theresa was surrounded by millions of them daily. She could have elected to walk on it all. She didn't.
Funny that Donohue keeps asking Hitchens for "evidence". Sorry, Bill, your whole belief system relies upon an absence of evidence.
85 Mean Ol’ Liberal
You don't think Mother Theresa felt any pressure from those she was surrounded by who she had converted to Catholism or whose Catholism she had buttressed to remain a nun?
An Average Joe @ 23:
We're still going through the motions like Mother Teresa, but you know, Pope Benny was supposed to visit the US this year, and his visit has been postponed until September 2008. How convenient for the election! I think pressure will be put on all laity to sign a statement of loyalty to the teachings of the church, especially on abortion-stem cell research-death with dignity, and not to vote for anyone who supports those ideas. If that happens, it's the last straw for us. Jesus sent out the disciples to spread his message to all the world, but Pope Benny wants to contract the size of the church to a small group of totally blind and obedient followers, and ergo, seems to be the Anti-Christ to me. That was news to me, what you said about the names of people no longer attending Mass being posted publicly. That almost seems to me to be able to be challenged legally, say, as an invasion of privacy.
I love Hitchens. He's the only non-theist that can reliably humiliate the theist blowhards because he doesn't feel the need to affect some undeserved "respect" for their beliefs.
Foo @ 6:
haha...*exactly*
though that was an intellectual mismatch. These shows are so stupid. They just get two people from opposite sides of the bell curve to duke it out and the rest of us are left out in the cold.
L-A-M-E
is it any surprise they put baffoons of the opposite spectrums together for ratings?
tuff talk from a fat crazy old man. when do catholics speak out against the likes of this man, catholics i know do not feel that he represents them and infact is a bad face on catholics even though his organization is a minor but vocal group seeking monitary contributions to fight anti catholic actions wherever the group sees them, real or in the imagination of a tuff talking fat crazy old man.
Kiva @ 91:
As a Catholic, let me tell you - Donahue is not speaking for us - he is not speaking for the Church - he is simply a crazy, pathological sex obsessed (maybe a closet case) bastard who speaks for people like him. I sort of think of him as Catholicism's Fred Phelps. Now, if I was an athiest, I would not let the likes of Christopher Hitchens speak for me. And I think we can almost put him in the Phelps category - not quite - but almost. Bill however - he and Fred are cut from the same addiction to rage clothed in religion. Spooky people. by the way - would really love to know the backstory on Donahue. Divorced with kids who won't speak to him. I know someone who had him as an instructor at some college back east - said he was a crazy narcissist even then.
Mean Ol' Liberal @ 80:
thank you....
As an Irishman, I would just like to say that we Irish from _IRELAND_ judge each Englishman on his own face value; not according some doctrine of tribal rubbish. In fact, we love our English brethren for the most part.
Donohue, turn in your Shamrock. You're an ugly American, not Irish.
Thinker @ 95:
As an athiest NO ONE speaks for me. That's the beauty of being an athiest, if you insist upon giving a name to people who don't believe in gods. By the way, what do you call people who don't believe in fairies? Answer: People.
RichStraightWhiteAmericanMale @ 98:
Hitchens may not speak FOR me, but i find it difficult to disagree with him on matters of theism. His Iraq War stance is another matter.
Yo, Mister Bill Donohue.
Yeah, you.
You want your "Spiritual Warfare?"
Do ya?
Fine, I'm tired of you, and your child-raping ilk, (you are catholic, right? Just checking), that deigns to claim the cloak of any sort of moral superiority, and so, basta, enough, I'm calling you out, punk.
Any questions?
I double dog dare you.
~Nyc
xoites defends Constitution @ 88:
No more than she wanted to remain a nun. She could have well hung onto her ethic of helping the world's needy one person at a time and left being Roman Catholic if she chose. There is charity without that denomination. There is charity without Christianity. There is charity without religion at all. She would have well known that and would have worked with persons of all different faiths and of no particular faith at all in the same work.
She remained a nun because she wanted to. No one could reach into her head and force a conviction and volition she didn't choose to hold.
I appreciate how many of you can tell right from wrong. Mother Teresa proved that you can follow your own values and do good for fellow man without propaganda brainwashing. It isn't that hard. I do not participate in fashionable charity in the abstract. I buy and donate food to the local food bank. I help cook and serve at free meals like thanksgiving. It makes me sky high for a month each time I do it. What is so bad about hands on helping? Why do people only mail a check? Clean your own back yard before you worry about others.
Even the most isolated tribes have witch doctors. This proves that it is a human thing to need something to explain the unknown and also proves that education is supposed to solve this. Did you know that they breed cows that give milk for several years without another pregnancy? I guess we won't have to burn another human being because education has stopped the cow from going dry. It appears that man is on a trend to leave religion behind and that is why there is so much religious hostility today. All you have to do is listen to a sermon to know what they are saying is wrong. The king is coming, my ass. Who the hell wants a king to make you a serf? The god of trees or the god of frogs did it. Why don't you get educated as to what caused the flood? Quit being a lazy religious person and get out and find out. Education will set you free.
Bill Donohue is a sad representative of Catholicism. Tweety knows how juvenile and combative he is. Shame on him for continuing to endorse such juvenility (if that's a word).
Donohue is oddly correct about Hitchin's book exposing the Mother Teresa fraud. It is a slim volume with no citations. However, there is a more substantive book on Teresa written by an Indian Doctor, a native of Calcutta. He obsessively documents the (white and outright) lies from Teresa and her hagiographers, and he goes so far as to video tape some of his encounters with Teresa's Order, Missionaries of Charity, as they acted rather uncharitably. The book by Dr. Aroup Chatterjee is titled, "Mother Teresa The Final Verdict". Excerpts are available online at http://www.meteorbooks.com/ but the entire book is a worthwhile read of a modern day religious, social, and financial (and racial) scam of immense proportions sanctioned by the Vatican and still playing out today. One of the interesting tidbits from the book as that Dr. Chatterjee was in fact interviewed, in a perfunctory pro forma manner nonetheless, by the Church's Devil's Advocate in the matter of Teresa's sainthood. Not that anything could derail the foregone conclusion, but it was interesting that the Church still goes through the motions of debate.
Mother Teresa has always been a prostitute for the Catholic Church and church was her pimp. She sucked money out of some of the poorest places on earth from some of the poorest people on earth.
John @ 31:
Yeh, picked that one up too. Nice of him to concede his political irrelevance for the viewers.
bill w @ 67:
How true--but what a shame to have to waste time on a drunken buffoon vs. a moronic one !
Actually a fight between those two would be funny--one would swing and miss, falling down in a drunken stupor, and the other would swing and miss, falling down gasping for breath.
Two asses: one pompous, one common barnyard, both make a living braying and saying nothing.
Bill Donohue is a sad representative of Catholicism. Tweety knows how juvenile and combative he is. Shame on him for continuing to endorse such juvenility (if that's a word).
And as a Brit who used to live in Ireland, I remember what the Irish appropriately called people who claimed Irish ancestry: plastic Paddies. Donohue is a plastic Paddy. He thinks he's being clever but knowing the Irish.....they'd be embarassed to claim him.
They're both assholes.
Every Catholic in the country should stand and disavow anything Donohue says. I understand that some priests have done that from the pulpit. It needs to be universal. But, when the Pope is a former member of Hitler Youth, what can we expect.
Rusty Shackleford @ 90:
Hear hear. I'm not sure I love Hitchens though...he used to for instance be a fan of Saddam Insane..
Mother Theresa's confessions point to a deeper spiritual truth. While it is true that it is difficult if not impossible to feel the presence of Christ in the Eucharist it is essential to the practice of Faith that one continues to act in faithfulness despite evidence to the contrary.
Mother Theresa's Life and Action - dharma, as the Hindus say - is the Eucharist itself.
[Deleted. Off topic]
I want to thank the Catholic Church for turning so many people into Atheists. Now, THERE is something to think about.
The official catechism condones agnosticism because it indicates that your faith would be based on reason, a trait which usually sets the catholic church apart. Idiots like Donahue are not catholic. The catholic league wrote me a letter once, I sent them a death threat back: "Stop using the word 'Catholic' or I will kill you."
I love Hithcens for laying into these un-thinking, fake catholics.
Real catholics are die-hard liberals, not self hating repugs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6KMYms8is0 How I feel about religion.
Donahue gives Irishmen a bad name.I`m Irish and proud of it. I`ve always disliked these blow hard, tough guy, Irish types who epitomize self-righteous banality.These are the guys who ask you to step outside to settle something and they usually have six friends with them.If it`s one on one they fold.I`m sixty three,have a bad back and am blind in one eye,and if that fat jerk asked me to step outside I`d laugh in his face.
Either that or I`d get my friend Gallagher to smash a watermelon next to him and get his suit dirty.Then his wife would kick his ass.
i wounder how bill Donahue felt when he went against the wishes of the pope by keeping silent and continue to give communion to Sam brown back and rick sanatorium. if i recall correctly pope john Paul II came out against the invasion of Iraq and not only that he wrote a letter to George bush urging him not to invaded Iraq, but not only George bush went against the teaching of his church who was also against the invasion of Iraq.
if i was the anchor of the show, i would as bill what is his tought on pope john Paul II writing a letter to George bush telling him to not invaded Iraq, and did bill felt when he went against the wishes of the pope by continuously supporting a war that the pope was virtually against.
i would also ask bill Donahue what is his thought on bush went against the wishes of his church by invading a sovereign nation.
Sorry I misspelled Donohue`s name.It was spell check`s fault.
Must hurt like a bitch for Donohue to think that an atheist like Mother Theresa could do so many good deeds. No wonder he's so mad.
When Donahue accuses Hitchens of being a dogmatic atheist, someone should remind Donahue that Hitchens is rubber and he is GLUE.
deniz @ 13:
I'll put my money on Higgins winning the beer drinking contest and on Donohue winning the whiskey drinking contest.
Oh no, not this Donahue guy again...why is it that bullies like this can go on the air and say they want 'to sock' people but aren't sentenced to anger management lockdown?
How is it that Imus gets booted off the air like greased lightning while this mofo gets a pass for this threatening kind of shit? The Christian fundies must 'own' the airwaves, ya think?
You'd of thought Donahue could have somehow found Jesus after his rabid attacks on the talented Chocolate Jesus artist, Cosimo Cavallaro, a fellow Catholic by 'birth'. But noooooo.........
http://tootruthy.blogspot.com/2007/04/2truthy-to-mass-produce-chocolate-...
http://tootruthy.blogspot.com/2007/04/what-bill-donahue-eats-while-trave...
As usual, cretins, perverts and psychotics claim that Stalin and Hitler are proof that atheism promotes mass murder, ignoring the fact that the religious wars throughout the centuries and up to the present (Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq) have killed more people than these two dictators combined, that the Catholic Church supported Hitler's early rule and that both Hitler and Stalin essentially adopted the machinery of organized religion and established secular religions in order to further their goals of totalitarian rule for themselves. North Korea today is essentially heaven on earth with its total control of both the mind and body of its citizens for the glory of the state, which is what the Christian and Islamic concept of heaven is. True atheists reject any belief that man can be made to live in perfect harmony through laws and mind control, which is what religious idiots and those who subscribe to Marx's beliefs desire most, yet the rejects of the gene pool continue to twist what atheism is all about.
It's hard to tell which one is the more despicable hypocrite, the atheist who continually supports the agenda of the fundamentalist religious right...or the violence-threatening Christian looney. Of course Mother Theresa believed in Catholicism, why else would she go to overpopulated third world countries ravaged by AIDS and starvation and tell them not to use condoms? Who cares what her personal feelings about a mythological character were? The point is that religious fundamentalism is absurd. Both of these idiots are barking up the wrong trees.
Quick general question about Hitchens: how much of his pre-9/11 writing has anyone here read? Because pretty much the only issue on which he falls to right of us is the invasion of Iraq. (And admittedly, he's totally around the bend on that issue.) But seriously, the man was, for near decades, the best-read, most lethally-tongued leftist in the media. He was on the front lines for more noble causes than, I'm guessing, anyone on this thread, myself included.
His disillusionment with the American left came more as a result of its fairly warm embrace of a crooked hypocrite like Clinton, not to mention the whole nation's unwillingness to lift a finger to stop the Balkan genocide. As a result, he began leaning more libertarian and fell over the edge when it came to Iraq.
But seriously, read his work ("For the Sake of Argument" is a great place to start) and give the man his due. He's not a clown, buffoon, fundamentalist freak, or an idiot. (Nor was he ever a "fan" of Saddam.)
As for religion in general, I fancy Bill Hicks' brand of metaphysical antitheism.
Angelo @ 116:
Thanks for this. Cracked me up.
From Donohue's Bible:
Isaiah 13:13-16
13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
and the earth will be shaken out of its place,
at the wrath of the Lord of hosts
on the day of his fierce anger.
14Like a hunted gazelle,
or like sheep with no one to gather them,
all will turn to their own people,
and all will flee to their own lands.
15Whoever is found will be thrust through,
and whoever is caught will fall by the sword.
16Their infants will be dashed to pieces
before their eyes;
their houses will be plundered,
and their wives ravished.
Infants dashed to pieces? Sounds like Donohue's vengeful God outdoes Bush for intended, unjust cruelty.
The tragic thing about this argument is that both Donahue and Hitchins fail to make the essential point for both sides:
Atheists (who aren't drunken belligerent assholes) should point out that "good works" can indeed be done by doubting non-believers -- which shows that ethics and morality are not exclusive to the certitude of religious belief. To point out the obvious, the fact that Mother Theresa still lived the life of charity despite her religious despair and doubt demonstrates that religion is not the essential element of her works and her good heart.
On the other hand, Catholics (who aren't dogmatic belligerent assholes) should point out that nearly every revered "saint" in the church had doubts and crises of faith at one time or another in their lives. Perhaps Mother Theresa took this message to heart:
1Co 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
If she was unsure of her "faith," lost hope in "hope," she resorted to the one thing she was sure of in herself -- love.
Hitchens calls her a fraud. Donahue uses her as a flag to be waned by the Catholic church. Neither of them seem to realize that she, despite her crisis of "faith," lived a more noble, dignified, human life than either of these ideological, belligerent, rat assed pricks could ever do.
I am an avowed atheist. Hitchens doesn't speak for atheists like myself. Perhaps Mother Theresa knew that her "faith" in Christ was a wash -- but her life's work just shows that is was her desire to serve that brought her to the "faith," not the "faith" that brought her to that desire. In that sense, she has shown that it is the will to do good that is supreme -- not the religious laws that demand it, nor the imaginary "God" who supposedly rewards it.
Say it with me loud and clear: they both suck giant dog cocks.
I'm sorry if that last comment was crude......no I'm not.
GoodGod @ 129:
Splendid example of exegesis; you should be very proud.
As someone mentioned above, any self-professed athiest who would let someone speak for them isn't fit to bear the mantle.
Hitchens' reasons for calling M. Theresa a fraud have less to do with her faith (or lack thereof), but that she would qualify herself as a pious Good Person whilst accepting, without question, donations from dictators, thugs, felons, and war criminals. Also, that her Catholicism would definitively prevent her from promoting safe sex or family planning - this in a country where a million people are born every month, most into the direst of circumstances. Rather than brag about the number of "souls" she saved, M. Theresa would have done better to stem the human tide.
More here: http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/
Can't stand either one of them, two big fakes.
FreeDUMB @ 115:
And don't forget the "laundries" while you're at it.
Oops, I thought you wrote the Irish Catholic Church.
NYC male escorts hate Bill Donohue...they call him "Teabags"
Seb @ 134:
Another pompous person making unconfirmed arguments just to support his favorite ideologues arguments.
I don't recall ever hearing Mother Theresa make the claim that she was a "pious Good Person." I've not been privy to any meetings where she accepted, without question, donations from dictators, thugs, felons, and war criminals. Who knows what questions she might have asked those supposed "dictators, thugs, felons, and war criminals" in private -- if indeed she ever talked to these people (who interestingly are unnamed or sourced.) I suppose that every country that accepts donations for the less fortunate from the US without question, are all involved with the crimes of the dictators, thugs, felons, and war criminals, that make up the US government. Your argument would have some teeth if you could provide at least one example where Mother Theresa participated in any of the crimes committed by these said individuals.
She took from the rich and helped the poor -- so what? I bet that if she really did accept the said donations, they went right back in to helping the victims of these "dictators, thugs, felons, and war criminals." Ah, but Hitchens and his disciples don't like that possibility -- they would prefer to believe that there is nefarious intent for everyone who might actually believe in the concept of charitable works. I challenge anyone to show one instance where that sad lady took any donations for her own material gain.
Also, I missed the time or times where, M. Theresa ever bragged about "saving souls." Could you direct me to some reference that supports this claim? M. Theresa wasn't a preacher, per se. She was a servant to the poor, sick, and forgotten. She did works -- not talk.
You see seb, what you're doing is spewing your hatred towards the Catholic Church towards someone who really doesn't deserve it -- and the only reason why you're doing that is because you want to argue for your master's point, namely Hitchins. Ah yes, the Belligerent Atheist Church of Hitchins and his disciples -- the refuge for hate masked as unbelief. The place for all to go, believers and non-believers alike, who think that hate is equivalent to atheism.
#94 likens Hitchens to Phelps. Are you kidding?
Joe Neri @ 113:
You see, this is the thing that is lost on blowhards like Donahue. Mother Theresa's beliefs were not important - it was her actions. I am an atheist. Therefore, to me it does not matter what she believed or that she lost her belief in later years - what matters is she did good things.
I find it infuriating that people (I use the term loosely) like Bill Donahue demean someone as a bad person when they discover he/she does not believe what Donahue believes. This may be why Mother Theresa started having emotional problems when she found she could no longer believe - because of what others would think of her because of her lack of belief, independent of what she had done to help others.
Funny how this argument devolved into a Red Sox/Yankee debate:
Donohoe: "At the end of the day, this is a woman who received 124 awards."
Yankee fan: "Count the (World Series) rings, baby!"
djtyg @ 3:
Compared to Bill Donohue, Hitchens is Mother Theresa.
Only Donohue could make Hitchens seem pleasant and moderate.
They are both fundamentalists--Hitchens is an atheo-fundamentalist, Donahue an a religious fundamentalist. When either side says, "My 'ism' [be it atheism or Catholicism] is the one right way and your 'ism' is wrong," they are both incorrect. The Left should be better than this. There are different paths to the Ultimate Truth. I am a Christian, but I can appreciate the views of people of other faith traditions as well as secular humanists. Progressives of faith and secular progressives need to set aside differences and work together toward common goals. I think all progressives care about taking care of the poor, protecting the environment, and promoting social justice. Who cares if some of us are inspired by faith and some of us are inspired by reason, as long as we want the same things for this country.
I wonder what Bill thinks of the Pope going Green?
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2007...
Allison @ 144:
I'm writing this down.
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