Man, Alan Colmes is one alien-ugly dude.

I wonder if he looked into the empty vault that is Tancredo's campaign would he find anything? No, that's because it's already empty. hahaha

I read that article earlier today in the Boston Globe. I was actually very surprised that Geraldo spent his summers here in Massachusetts. (Aren't we just the luckiest......we've got Russert, Rivera, Matthews, David Gregory) ick.

I agree with him about Malkin. She is foaming-at-the mouth freak.

She's going to get her just rewards some day.

Before everyone sanctifies Jerry, please remember that he regularly had Anne Coulter on his CNN show, and claimed to be a friend of hers (mid-1990's) and even now claims to be a FOB (O'Rielly , that is) !

This is the Geraldo I remember from his ABC days in L.A.!

mongo @ 9:

Malkin needs to be careful who she enables.

After all, she's a "miscegenator", and the people whose views she supports and promulgates would likely want her in a camp if they had their way.

That bit of irony escapes Malkin, doesn't it?

Karen @ 11:

mudshark @ 7:

I have to say I liked the way Geraldo kept on swinging...Tancredo couldn't get a word in sideways...Even Hannity couldn't stop him......and look at all their last names....immigrants...just like me.To me...this makes them hypocrites...in a very BIG way

Yeah, I suppose. But how have we gotten to a point where Insanity and Colmes passes for political discourse in this country? Watching these characters all yell at one another without actually listening to what their opponents are actually saying is maddening.

True......but still it was refreshing to see some one do it.

Jesus H... And Colmes just sat there like an obedient puppy the whole time. What a useful idiot.

It's a little scary when Geraldo is the voice of reason, but he's pretty on target here.

This is bullshit. We are talking about illegal v. legal immigration. The Republicans and FOX paint this as all illegal, all the time.

We had a system and it worked but Bush gutted the INS.

BTW... How many Americans are willing to pay $5.99 for a head of lettuce? Or, better yet pick it for $1.00 an hour?

mongo @ 9:

Malkin needs to be careful who she enables.

After all, she's a "miscegenator", and the people whose views she supports and promulgates would likely want her in a camp if they had their way.

Exactly. She sort of reminds me of when Dave Chappelle played Clayton Digsby, the blind and black white supremacist.

Erroll @ 19:

Karen at #11-

Well said. I was forced to turn it off after about 12 seconds after being subjected to that sadistic tirade. That exchange makes Chris Matthews look almost civilized. That volley of verbal insults is not only what passes for intelligent discourse today; it is also being touted as entertainment for the unwashed masses. Simply more evidence of the decline, if not of Western civilization, then of American society and culture plunging into the abyss.

Thank you for the compliment, Erroll. If you're interested, my buddy and I were bantering on about those very thoughts in a Liveliest Crib podcast. ;)

VIVA TANCREDO

What a bumper sticker!

watching/listening to Sean Hannity makes me want to hit something.
I'm just gonna refuse to click on his links like I stopped looking at Coulter's shit.

still giving props to Geraldo for being in NewOrleans, after dark, days after Katrina. That took more balls than Sean will ever have.

The comments made on the video clip is not worth commenting on. To answer the question "Malkin is O’Reilly’s new fill in host so what does that say about him?" I'd like to take a stab at: Bill O'Reilly is a racist? What do I get if I'm correct? If I'm wrong, somebody please let me know because I understand that I am usually out of touch with these things.

I just wonder whether Bill and Michelle share falafel at lunch.

--Kibitzer

It must be depressing to have your fame and career pinnacle be the night you spent in the basement of a condemned hotel as union laborers whacked at a crumbling wall so you could pick up an empty beer bottle and show it to the camera and say, “Gee, Al Capone’s lips might have touched this!”

Wait, you mean Geraldo thinks Malkin is more vile than the lefty blogosphere? More vile than Andrea Marcotte? More vile than the daily Kos? No one could be that vile!

Anybody else see Idiocracy? I swear, Fox "News" is only a half-step away from that "kick in the balls" show.

It's ironic that the grandchild of Italian immigrants is bashing "brown people" when in the 1890's through 1920's Italian immigrants (specifically his grandparents) were, quite literally, the brown people that the anti-immigrant crowd loathed. Congress passed immigration restrictions which greatly curbed Italian immigration among others. If anything, Mexicans and other Latin Americans have MORE right to be here than Tancredo does by virtue of birthright: Their ancestors have been in this hemisphere for centuries, he's only 3rd generation.

uncle joe mccarthy @ 33:

Italian Immigrant Son @ 20:

This is bullshit. We are talking about illegal v. legal immigration. The Republicans and FOX paint this as all illegal, all the time.

We had a system and it worked but Bush gutted the INS.

BTW... How many Americans are willing to pay $5.99 for a head of lettuce? Or, better yet pick it for $1.00 an hour?

i take it you havent looked at the cost of produce lately

are you saying that it is ok to exploit illegals so that you can have a cheap salad??

when reagan pushed for the first amnesty bill back in 86, we were promised secure borders and better enforcement

we got neither

what we got was corporatist friendly administrations, who looked the other way while the corporations hired illegal workers in order to break the backs of the unions, and to make any minimum wage law moot.

this isnt about compassion...its about making sure we do not allow the corporatists to destroy what there is left of the middle class, and yes, turn us into a 3rd world country.

as for your agricultural argument....agribiz can well afford to pay a living wage, and still not stick it to the consumer as labor is a very small percentage of overhead

Sure, but the current situation is the same for the corporatists, if all the illegal immigrants still are here working for tiny wages. The only thing I'm sure of is that anything Bush is pushing for is not out of the goodness of his heart, and anything Hannity and Tancredo like is almost certainly racist.

The solution has to be trying to improve the economy of Mexico and increasing legal immigration.

Curtilingus @ 39:

i take it you havent looked at the cost of produce lately

are you saying that it is ok to exploit illegals so that you can have a cheap salad??

Help the migrant problem. Grow your own!

hmmm... cheap salad.... Is it 4:20 already?

First: I didn't even realize this show was still on. How can anyone put up with Hannity? He makes O'Reily look sane!
Second: Colms. I swear he looks just like a fish I caught once. Scared me so bad I threw it back.

Look, the whole thing on Immigration is just a means of keeping slavery going today.
Do I blame someone who is trying to make a living by traveling thru deserts and risking death just to make a couple bucks to live and raise their kids? No. I submit that we could use a few more people with that work ethic in this country today.
These people aren't taking jobs from Americans. Their doing jobs that we can't bother ourselves to do.

If you don't like the immigration situation then shut down the people who are paying theem.

Pretty simple huh?

But, no. We have to make the poor bastard who is trying to make a living the villan.

My grandfather came from another country and worked in the mines in PA.
It was brutal, shitty work. But he established a family and bettered himself and got ahead.
This was way before Unions. Fact is they used to kill people for talking about the Unions.

If we want to handle immigration then either stop employing them or start paying enough for them to make a living...and then other Americans might compete with them for the jobs.

But don't blame the poor SOB that's just trying to make a living.

(BTW: His comment on Malkin was right on the money. She's sorta a olive skin version of Ann Coulter. Neither one of them is worth my spit though.

Remember in the early 90's when everyone was freaking out about how much property the Japanese were buying up in the US? Then someone pointed out the English owned more property in the US than any other foreign country, and everyone shut up.

This was not an issue a few months ago and the powers that be, through the media, have made it into issue number one. To distract you while much more serious things are going on.

When was the last time any of you were directly, negatively affected by an overabundance of Mexicans?

Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 43:

Old Billy @ 42:

Curtilingus @ 39:

i take it you havent looked at the cost of produce lately

are you saying that it is ok to exploit illegals so that you can have a cheap salad??

Help the migrant problem. Grow your own!

hmmm... cheap salad.... Is it 4:20 already?

Cheap Salad? clearly you haven't seen the latest pot prices!!!

Its pretty cheap and abundant up here in the Emerald triangle. Mostly white labor too! Go figure.

Well I'd pay real money to see Geraldo spit on Michelle... Other than that... Don't have much use for him anymore...I used to think what he was up to was pretty cool exposing stuff.. Now, not so much.. He's just a little toooo opportunistic for my blood and this smells like an opportunistic move by him in seeing a shift in the national attitude and just trying to climb on...

Not a bad move as moves go, seeing as the GOP fascism light express is getting waaay stale to more and more people... Still, it's like someone upthread indicated... Where the fuck was he in 03???? That's why this latest just smells of looking to change course... Doesn't neccessarly have a damned thing to do with how he really feels about this shit.... Michelle?... Got no use for her whatsoever and the less I rant about her particularly, the better my BP....Shortest comment possible? Fuck off Malkin!!!! JD

Trancedo is a well known RACIST with his vulgar comments about attacking mosques, and if he thinks people go to Miami wanting Irish Stew, he's a sick degenerate. I go to Miami for the Cuban style coffee and the latin food. Miami is what it is, so wishing it was part of Caucasia is silly and only some desperate racist would be fixated on.

Malkin is similar to Condesleeza Rice, self hating minorities , why else would a female minority feel more comfortable and identify with old, racist white guys.

Thank-you for including a videotape of three people on TV news yelling at each other, talking over each other, interrupting each other, and getting nowhere. How is it that Hannity can invite people onto his show, spend a lot of time explaining to them that they don't get it, and then not letting them speak in response without interrupting, cutting them off, yelling louder than them, etc ad nauseum. Fox "news" is utterly pathetic. What a disgrace as a refection of who we are as a people.

Imelda Malkin should go back to the Phillipines. Maybe she can run for office there.

Italian Immigrant Son @ 20:

This is bullshit. We are talking about illegal v. legal immigration. The Republicans and FOX paint this as all illegal, all the time.

We had a system and it worked but Bush gutted the INS.

BTW... How many Americans are willing to pay $5.99 for a head of lettuce? Or, better yet pick it for $1.00 an hour?

They're paid more than that around here-- where does $1 come from? Curious.

I don't think I've ever seen or heard a longer segment consisting of two disparate voices talking over each other non stop.Lets all just put our fingers in our ears and go: La la la la la la!!!!! Sweet Christ enough already.

As an immigrant myself, who has waited 10 yrs to get a visa into US, I believe that illegal immigration is illegal and should be prevented. Living in this country is not a right, but a privilage to those of us who are not citizens and I am grateful for it, and for all the opportunities provided.

Being illegal immigrant, cannot be easy in a foreign culture, where you are marginalized. There is an increasing community that is being exploited by greed, and they cannot complain because of the fear of the law enforcements. I work in the medical field, and from personal experience have seen cases of child abuse and domestic violence go unreported because of the unprecedented levels of marginalizations in this community.

We are creating a permanent underclass, marginalizing illegal aliens who get paid less and therefore are forced to live on less. Yet, by being illegal is showing disregard to our sovereignty as a nation of laws, that has every right to control who is coming across our borders. This control should be free from any racial bias.

But in my opinion, this is a very tough moral dillemma our nation must face. There is no easy answer and need for honest debate. But one thing is for sure, a solution is needed because the current situation should not be allowed to continue, it is not good for the illegal immigrants, for our national and social fabric and not fair for those of us who worked hard to get here legally. It is only by being a part of the social fabric were we able to gain access to the opportunities that make america great.

Sorry, but we do need to enforce our immigration laws...if someone is here illegally and murdered three people, then that is on the government for not enforcing the border...should we allow the Tancredo's of the world to define immigration? No of course not, but there has to be a middle ground..uncontrolled immigration drives down wages and ruins our health care system especially when the government refuses to reimburse hospitals and they have to close down

ellen @ 64:

Sorry, but we do need to enforce our immigration laws...if someone is here illegally and murdered three people, then that is on the government for not enforcing the border...should we allow the Tancredo's of the world to define immigration? No of course not, but there has to be a middle ground..uncontrolled immigration drives down wages and ruins our health care system especially when the government refuses to reimburse hospitals and they have to close down

The problem is with NAFTA. We all know it. Enforcing immigration laws is no solution when the real problem still exists. The only way to cancel NAFTA is to elect Kucinich into office. No one else will do it. Otherwise we'll just continue fighting amongst ourselves over the peanuts we're handed. The worker's struggle has no borders.

swathi @ 62:

As an immigrant myself, who has waited 10 yrs to get a visa into US, I believe that illegal immigration is illegal and should be prevented. Living in this country is not a right, but a privilage to those of us who are not citizens and I am grateful for it, and for all the opportunities provided.

Being illegal immigrant, cannot be easy in a foreign culture, where you are marginalized. There is an increasing community that is being exploited by greed, and they cannot complain because of the fear of the law enforcements. I work in the medical field, and from personal experience have seen cases of child abuse and domestic violence go unreported because of the unprecedented levels of marginalizations in this community.

We are creating a permanent underclass, marginalizing illegal aliens who get paid less and therefore are forced to live on less. Yet, by being illegal is showing disregard to our sovereignty as a nation of laws, that has every right to control who is coming across our borders. This control should be free from any racial bias.

But in my opinion, this is a very tough moral dillemma our nation must face. There is no easy answer and need for honest debate. But one thing is for sure, a solution is needed because the current situation should not be allowed to continue, it is not good for the illegal immigrants, for our national and social fabric and not fair for those of us who worked hard to get here legally. It is only by being a part of the social fabric were we able to gain access to the opportunities that make America great.

well said.....thank you

I've been reading this blog for about a year, I like it a lot. I'd never clicked on any Hannity & Colmes vids before today, I don't watch Fox. If that clip had been 10 seconds longer my head would have exploded.I want to thank the people who sit and watch this crap so I don't have to.

It’s not about the bickering or yelling….It’s about someone not letting the repugs spout off unchallenged

mudshark@61, exactly!

Is this supposed to make me think that Geraldo is human? Ain't working.

And the really hysterical part is all these people of Italian decent walking around saying they're white, even crackers aren't that dumb!

If its not Scottish, Its Crap!!

Boy do I hate to agree with Geraldo, but sometimes......just sometimes......he hits the nail on the head. You go boy!

"“She actually believes that neighbors should start snitching out neighbors, and we should be deporting people."

I'm afraid i'll have to agree with Malkin on this one. Lets begin with anyone that voted for Bush 04.

mudshark @ 81:

The Pale Scott @ 76:

And the really hysterical part is all these people of Italian decent walking around saying they're white, even crackers aren't that dumb!

If its not Scottish, Its Crap!!

not going there

BTW...how did the Celtic do this year?.....anyone but the Rangers!

Michelle Malkin vile and hateful? Deserves to be spit upon? I think I've found several things of which I finally agree with Geraldo.

Michelle malkin reminds of some of those house slave who fought on the side of the south but not only that they would often look down their noses at the slave who work out in the Field. sometimes, a slave who work pick cotton can raise to the top by back standing the other slave and making the slave lives even more miserable.

also, i really think that Michelle is just in it for the money, i don't really think that she actually believes in the crap that she spew, such as being a patriot and loving her country because she is of military age, yet her reason for not going over to Iraq is that she have two small children who needs her and that she is too short. will, there are a lot of women in the military who are short with children waiting for them at home yet patriot like Michelle thinks that it is more important to keep the mother their in order to maxize the profit of the corporation and the oil industries.

Curtilingus @ 46:

Remember in the early 90's when everyone was freaking out about how much property the Japanese were buying up in the US? Then someone pointed out the English owned more property in the US than any other foreign country, and everyone shut up.

This was not an issue a few months ago and the powers that be, through the media, have made it into issue number one. To distract you while much more serious things are going on.

When was the last time any of you were directly, negatively affected by an overabundance of Mexicans?

I take it you don't live anywhere near a town where Mexicans come in droves to live. I do.....and the wages for the local chicken plant jobs (where they go to work) are about one dollar higher than they were in 1988, same for contruction jobs. They go to the emergency room for all their health care and can't pay. Property taxes are through the roof because several new schools have been built just to teach their offspring English. Then they multiply like crazy. This isn't about immigration in 1800. Nor is it about racism. It's about money, plain and simple. Dems that wish to make this a racist issue will learn that when they stop slinging shit about the issue, they'll have none on their hands. Go to the Mexican government to find the source of this mess, then go to major U.S. corporations to see the result of this mess. Vote Union and take the power back, people. Smartin' up.

>>> This is the Geraldo I remember from his ABC days in L.A.!

Yeah, he had a pair when he was in Myammuh about a million years ago, too. Maybe he'll find them again.

mudshark @ 7:

I have to say I liked the way Geraldo kept on swinging...Tancredo couldn't get a word in sideways...Even Hannity couldn't stop him......and look at all their last names....immigrants...just like me.To me...this makes them hypocrites...in a very BIG way

The reason that Hannity was so quiet was because Geraldo shut Hannity's self-righteos trap on Hannity's afternoon talk show. Hannity couldn't pin Geraldo with his infantile questions. I loved it. After 20 years since the Al Capone vault caper Geraldo's won my respect again.

I only wish Geraldo's two strongest comments about Malkin were on video.

The farther to the right Michelle goes the more airtime she gets on white nationalist Fox. She uses the same talking points Dr. William Pierce used

I've watched Malkin once out of morbid curiosity. She can't anchor; she can't read the teleprompter properly. I guess her rabidity is the reason she's on the desk. She's horrible in every sense of the word, a vicious, stuttering sophist. And I'll never watch her again on purpose.

Curtilingus @ 46:

This was not an issue a few months ago and the powers that be, through the media, have made it into issue number one. To distract you while much more serious things are going on.

When was the last time any of you were directly, negatively affected by an overabundance of Mexicans?

First, Geraldo has never been right about anything. On immigration he has a dog in the fight and it shows.

I live in Austin Texas and there is not a day that I do not come in contact with illegal Mexicans. Why? Because they have truly invaded the state. As with all humanity you find good and bad. Folks that work hard everyday and do good works and folks that work hard everyday and then get drunk and hit the highways. I've had fences run through, taken keys away from some of them so they won't drive, etc.

There is a difference between illegal and legal immigration, just as there was when the Italians, Irish, etc. came over.

The government is the problem not the immigrants. The government has refused to enforce immigration laws for 6 + years now in order to keep a slave class of workers for corporations and contributors.

First O'Rielly and now Hannity:
Never in a billion years did I ever think I'd say this, but
perhaps Rivera is too good for some networks.

Or than again, he's just dutifully playing the token "uppity fahrin type" on the white-male-christian-power-structure network, next to the Irishman and the Italian who ostensibly know what it means to be an American better than he does. (roll eyes)

This exchange did nothing for the debate on immigration or the case that they were talking about, the Newark slayings. Geraldo actually puts the debate in perspective and lays out Malkin here:

Geraldo Rivera: "I Cringe Every Time I See Her Here"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdJUaIKhUic

Scotsman, dammit.

tancredo oozes of pure ignorance, but it plays well to the heartland. geraldo has let his emotions get the better of him. he needs to put aside the fact that he is of latino heritage, because emotion will not carry this argument. there is no easy or canned answer to the immigration question. there is empathy for the people of latin america who endure the hardships of crossing for the promise of a job and better pay. there is a distain for the government of mexico that inexplicably looks at the us and its policies as inherently wrong to the plight of their good citizens, unless of course, they are looking at an illegal war that was perpetrated upon them way back then for the sheer acquisition of land. but I doubt it. corruption at the governmental level in that country is a way of life.
and the poor bear the brunt, they always have. in the mind of the anglo, the latino comes here to have their children so that they may be born us citizens and he comes here as well to reap the benefits of the social welfare system.

The latino immigrants i've observed are the hardest working people in the country. they are often described as those who would steal our jobs. have you ever traveled through delano or bakersfield with the midday sun high in the sky in july. in the fields, there are brown faces picking the crops that will grace supermarkets fresh veggie shelves across the nation. are there really people lined up to take those jobs???
I repeat, there is no easy send them packing answer to this question de jour of the republican party. first election, it was our poor education system. election over, the ed system apparently repaired itself. second election, the outstanding side issue was illegal immigration. election over, but this time they had opened a can of worms that would not just go away with the election results. there needs to be a compassionate knowledgeable and intellectual group that looks for answers to this question. not white sheet wearing stick bearing minute men-like desperados who will beat some sense into these animals.

This shows that the illegal alien issue has pretty much turned into an all out Latino-bashing thing which is beginning to piss off even Hispanics like Geraldo (I know, he's only half). It is pretty stupid that people like Tancredo -- who's probably been confuse for Latino all of his life, and who in fact looks less white than many Hispanics -- are really driving the conservative Hispanic vote away. I bet that his referring to Miami as a "third world city" didn't make him too popular among Florida Cubans, maybe make them wonder whether they've supporting the wrong party all these years. Heck, even Jeb Bush, with his Mexican wife, is getting irritated by all this.

The old Geraldo does occasionally show up from time to time.
He should show up more often on a real news network.

Remember his old show with Joe Conason and Ann Coulter
where orphan Annie would show up totally bombed with her veil of tears
hanging down one shoulder making eyes at Geraldo and getting
dissed every time after which Joe Conason would verbally nail
the orphan right between the eyes.

Bobaloo @ 65:

As for the racist thing, quit your tired bullshit schtick and actually read some of the arguments against the flood of illegal immigrants in the country. It's not about "English only" or cheap lettuce or brown people, it's about border security.

If its about border security in the context of the "war on terrah," then why are people talking about building fences on the Mexican border? The Canadian border is far less secure.

Guess what, there's a little bit of racism behind all this. Shocking, I know.

That's not to say that there aren't legitimate issues regarding illegal immigration, but trying to ignore the racism is like trying to ignore Hannity sucking ass all day. He's all like right there, sucking ass, in front of everyone and stuff. It's like when he walks down the street, people say, "Damn! That dude totally is sucking ass."

Stateless @ 95:

RobertPaul @ 44:

First: I didn't even realize this show was still on. How can anyone put up with Hannity? He makes O'Reily look sane!
Second: Colms. I swear he looks just like a fish I caught once. Scared me so bad I threw it back.

Look, the whole thing on Immigration is just a means of keeping slavery going today.
Do I blame someone who is trying to make a living by traveling thru deserts and risking death just to make a couple bucks to live and raise their kids? No. I submit that we could use a few more people with that work ethic in this country today.
These people aren't taking jobs from Americans. Their doing jobs that we can't bother ourselves to do.

If you don't like the immigration situation then shut down the people who are paying theem.

Pretty simple huh?

But, no. We have to make the poor bastard who is trying to make a living the villan.

My grandfather came from another country and worked in the mines in PA.
It was brutal, shitty work. But he established a family and bettered himself and got ahead.
This was way before Unions. Fact is they used to kill people for talking about the Unions.

If we want to handle immigration then either stop employing them or start paying enough for them to make a living...and then other Americans might compete with them for the jobs.

But don't blame the poor SOB that's just trying to make a living.

(BTW: His comment on Malkin was right on the money. She's sorta a olive skin version of Ann Coulter. Neither one of them is worth my spit though.

It's should not be up to the employer to enforce immigration laws, it should be up to the federal goverment. As an employer I have enough to worry about. Besides all of you who think there hordes of American workers lining up to take high paying tomato picking jobs need to have a reality check.

cry me a river

keep trying to serve up the same old bullshit about jobs americans wont do

how the fuck do you think this country was made??

pay a living wage and benefits and americans will do the work...and do it better than anyone in the world

and why should you as an employer be responsible to know if your employees are legal or not...because you should care about america and its people, you selfish corporatist succubus

fuck the man....its time for a revolution...and i will be the first on the frontline

This was a typical ignorant Fox discussion, however I think that it is amazing how progressive people jump to linking "immigration" with "illegal immigration". Different things folks. My spouse works in immigration for another country, so I'm pretty close to some of the issues immigration officials face. I support a very liberal immigration policy--everyone benefits from a multicultural society. But governments have to plan, and that becomes difficult when you have a tide of illegal immigrants. A country needs to balance a skilled worker program with a certain allocation for refugees, for example.

Also, illegal immigrants enter the country and are exploited--most of them understandably don't have a good picture of what it is actually like in the destination country. They often risk their lives and they find their situation isn't much better.

This has nothing to do with the race--even though some of the people supporting getting tough on illegal immigration happen to be racist--"guilt by association" is a logical fallacy.

People go to great lengths to enter other countries illegally. For many of them, I can say I would do the same thing in their shoes, the other half has to be addressing things like globalization and what that does to worker's rights around the world. But countries like the US need to find a solution to keeping illegals out, and making it easier for legals to get in.

So, please, just because you want to call somebody a racist don't leap every time this issue comes up. Better to clarify the terms "immigration" and "illegal immigration" first, and then begin a sensible discussion from there.

What a ridiculous clip! I love the sections where all 3 of these jokers are screaming at the same time for many seconds. Who do they think is listening? They certainly are paying no attention to each other, and I couldn't make out a word any of them were screeching.

I must say that this Tancredo clown is really, really annoying. Given that the chances of him becoming president are approximately zero squared, why do we have to listen to him screaming anti-American crap?

Actually, I guess we don't have to listen, since these shriekfests seem to happen mostly on The Noise.

Since Frank at 119 has saw fit to illustrate by point of 118 (Thanks Frank!), and label the illegal immigration issue "the immigration issue", I wondered if this doesn't play right into the ultra right's hands by convincing people that immigration itself is bad. At the very least call it "an immigration issue", even though that is not completely correct. "The immigration issue" is completely wrong. This is not a minor point.

Looking at this thread it seems about half are framing the debate correctly.

Bobaloo @ 107:

Stateless @ 99:

Italian Immigrant Son @ 20:

This is bullshit. We are talking about illegal v. legal immigration. The Republicans and FOX paint this as all illegal, all the time.

We had a system and it worked but Bush gutted the INS.

BTW... How many Americans are willing to pay $5.99 for a head of lettuce? Or, better yet pick it for $1.00 an hour?

Lettuce is the least of our problems. Think what wouldhappen if all these closet racists get their way what would happen to the prices of homes. The fact is that undocumented workers are what props up our economy and make housing, food and other consumer goods and services affordable. Fact is that for those hard to do jobs that American workers don't want to do immigrant workers are more productive than native born. Fact is that we need a comprehensive and inclusive guest worker program.

I know! Thank God for all those underpaid, overworked, unrepresented Mexicans! Yes, our economy will collapse without their labors!

Glad to see you agree. And since you are so concerned for the welfare of the unrepresented Mexicans you need to be supporting laws that make sure they get fair pay. Laws that also let us monitor who the hell is here. Laws that make sure they are not abused and exploited. And yes even though the economy may not exactly collapse we all would feel the crunch without guest workers, documented or undocumented. A comprehensive guest worker program sounds like the answer.

Geraldo's all on board with Fox, right up until his own ox gets gored. Har har...

Geraldo is good for something!

I was in California two weeks ago and loved it. I wish we had gotten picutres of the migrant workers around Seaside, CA so that people in the cities and the north can see what many of these "illegal aliens", how they live, how the go to the toilet (portopottys that stay on trailers) and the buses that bring them into the fields. It is mind clowing to actually see this.

Interestingly enough if you take Hannity's arguement and replace the words "illegal immigration" etc. with "black," "African American," change the little black girl to a white girl and instead of illegal immigration to segregation ... it makes his whole race bating argument plan.

Welcome back, Geraldo. After all these years, you started your comeback by eviscerating O'Reilly.

Does anyone remember how good this guy was in the seventies in New York?

Bobaloo @ 65:

Are some of you serious? I've seen quite a few posts about civilized discourse, then praise for Jerry Rivers threatening to spit on Malkin. How frikking immature can you get?
As for the racist thing, quit your tired bullshit schtick and actually read some of the arguments against the flood of illegal immigrants in the country. It's not about "English only" or cheap lettuce or brown people, it's about border security.
I'd venture to say most of you are pissed off about the violation of Iraq's sovereignty when we invaded. Are you so unconcerned for ours? It doesn't bother you one bit when Calderon says Mexico doesn't stop at it's borders? When someone who steals a Social Security number from a citizen is praised as a hero?

By the way Tancredo's ancestors immigrated legally! So that strawman just burned.

If you're so worried about border security than what about Canada. That's where the 9/11 terrorists came through when they entered the US.

Oh, but Canada is never brought up. Canada is not filled with brown people and most Canadians speak English. The land border between Canada and the US is much longer than the Mexican/US border. And no one is building a wall there.

Cut the carp.

Chris @ 132:

Bobaloo @ 65:

Are some of you serious? I've seen quite a few posts about civilized discourse, then praise for Jerry Rivers threatening to spit on Malkin. How frikking immature can you get?
As for the racist thing, quit your tired bullshit schtick and actually read some of the arguments against the flood of illegal immigrants in the country. It's not about "English only" or cheap lettuce or brown people, it's about border security.
I'd venture to say most of you are pissed off about the violation of Iraq's sovereignty when we invaded. Are you so unconcerned for ours? It doesn't bother you one bit when Calderon says Mexico doesn't stop at it's borders? When someone who steals a Social Security number from a citizen is praised as a hero?

By the way Tancredo's ancestors immigrated legally! So that strawman just burned.

If you're so worried about border security than what about Canada. That's where the 9/11 terrorists came through when they entered the US.

Oh, but Canada is never brought up. Canada is not filled with brown people and most Canadians speak English. The land border between Canada and the US is much longer than the Mexican/US border. And no one is building a wall there.

Cut the carp.

C Quil @ 130:

Welcome back, Geraldo. After all these years, you started your comeback by eviscerating O'Reilly.

Does anyone remember how good this guy was in the seventies in New York?

I remember. He lost me when he did that caper in Chicago with the vault.

I listened to Geraldo on Hanitys' radio show that day. Geraldo cleaned up the floor with poor old Sean. Sean sounded so foolish. That was the precursor to the racist Tancredo's asswhipping on Hannity and Colmes that evening.

Geraldo was great like in the old days.

Bobaloo @ 65:

It doesn't bother you one bit when Calderon says Mexico doesn't stop at it's borders? When someone who steals a Social Security number from a citizen is praised as a hero?

Doesn't bother me one bit because Calderon is right. Most of southwestern US is historically Mexican lands. The Mexicans are for the most part indigenous people or descendants of that have been roaming those lands for thousands of years with no frikken border. White Europeans and black Africans are not indigenous to the Americas. Mexicans for the most part are. So when Mexicans say I didn't cross the border the border crossed me you know what they mean. These are a people who have watched European settlers invade and dispossessed them of lands that historically belonged to them. So morally they do have a right to be here and we have a moral right to accommodate them. As far as the SS being stolen that's petty by comparison. We as a newly founded settler nation violated their historical rights so what if they use a SS that is not theirs to gain back a small peace of the patrimony that should have been theirs. What's the more grievous offense a Mexican using a fake SS or white Anglo America stealing from Mexico one third of their national territory The latter is the more grievous offense. As for Calderon he is ideologically and historically right on the money and in tune with his people. As Mexico becomes more prosperous and literate this will be an issue that will have to be dealt with by future generations.

Michelle Malkin?

All you need to know about her, is that she still thinks it was a great idea
back in 1942 to round up Japanese-Americans, confiscate their property, and
lock them up.

So, I expect Michelle to be somewhat xenophobic.

I could care less what these idiots are saying or who is supposedly compassionate or not. I could care less who came in legally in the past or not...we are not talking about the past..we are talking about today and the future.

Here is the deal for all you illegal immigrant lovers were our country USA is the "entire worlds to rape". Effective immediately all those in favor of unbridled illegal imiigration must post their address and location on Craigs List. Now all illegal immigrants will have the ability to enter into your property and home and set up house. You may not lock any of your doors or even stop them from eating your food, using your TV, driving your car, storing the personal possesions...etc. They may sleep in your bed and you will have to feed them and give them health care and anything else they need to live. Your personal home is their personal home. If your lucky they will cut your grass and do odd jobs for you around the house. But your home is now their home and you just have to live with it! You can not say of do anything to discourage them in any way...... Now if any of you goof balls have the nerve to do this, then you will have the right to be in favor of "unbridled illegal immigration" and make comments and make statements on the web....if not...shut your mouth... because you all sound like idiots! Geraldo has always been loose.....I will be looking on Craigs list for all your adresses.......
Obewan

Lew Orban @ 140:

I could care less what these idiots are saying or who is supposedly compassionate or not. I could care less who came in legally in the past or not...we are not talking about the past..we are talking about today and the future.

Here is the deal for all you illegal immigrant lovers were our country USA is the "entire worlds to rape". Effective immediately all those in favor of unbridled illegal imiigration must post their address and location on Craigs List. Now all illegal immigrants will have the ability to enter into your property and home and set up house. You may not lock any of your doors or even stop them from eating your food, using your TV, driving your car, storing the personal possesions...etc. They may sleep in your bed and you will have to feed them and give them health care and anything else they need to live. Your personal home is their personal home. If your lucky they will cut your grass and do odd jobs for you around the house. But your home is now their home and you just have to live with it! You can not say of do anything to discourage them in any way...... Now if any of you goof balls have the nerve to do this, then you will have the right to be in favor of "unbridled illegal immigration" and make comments and make statements on the web....if not...shut your mouth... because you all sound like idiots! Geraldo has always been loose.....I will be looking on Craigs list for all your adresses.......
Obewan

Is that what you fear illegal immigrants will do to you? Obviously you make it clear that paranoia detracts from intellect. Reason doesn't seem to be one of your atrubutes.

Lew Orban @ 143:

Stateless,
This has nothing to do with reason..this has to do with you opening your home to all the illegal aliens on Craigs list. I have nothing but reason and wisdom and paranonia does not exist in my world. What does exist in my world is reality and unless you are willing to do what I stated then you my friend have no solution and any criticism or advise to give. One can always talk a good game... until the real game actually personally effects their small space and real world around them. Life is not fair and the game is always a challenge with a winner and a loser. Thats what reality is, reasoning with your intellect! You should try it some time......
Obewan

No one is talking about something so stupid as you're proposing. You're reality is a delusional paranoia that exists only in your puny little world. For you to claim wisdom and reason is the most preposterous and laughable statement that I have seen all day. Got back and read the stupidity that you posted. You're in denial and the first thing a dysfunctional person like yourself needs to do is admit that they are delusional. That's your first step to the rehabilitation you apparantely need. Sort of like a an alcoholic or a pedophile admitting that they have a problem before rehabilitation can begin. If you don't then you're beyond help and you can keep on living in your delusion paranoid little world that's full of fear and hatred. Nobody is talking about a bunch of lazy ass people coming into your home to live. We got plenty of lazy ass do nothings born here. For the most part immigrants are a hardworking bunch and don't need to occupy anybodies home since the great majority that I've known can fend for themselves better than some of the ones born here. So as long as we know who is here, that they work and fend for themselves, don't commit any crimes, pay taxes (including social security and medicaid) like the rest of us, don't abuse social services I have no problem for them to be here and welcome them as guest workers to the USA. Let's face budddy most of the work they do most USAmericans won't do for one day. By allowing them to work, monitoring the ones that are here we are doing more for our country as opposed to the KKK style persecution of immigrants that I have no doubt you would endorse. And I'm not talking out of my ass like you, I'm talking from the wisdom one obtains only from the maturity of years of experience given me from looking at both sides of the coin. A little compassion my friend will give you the peace of mind so you can overcome your xenophobia.

Stateless,
I should be impressed by the big words and the tone of your message.....I am not. However I was glad to see a spark of enthusiasm in solving the problem and your desire to share your wisdom. You could not fiqure out that your invaded home was actually your entire country...that is one strike against your wisdom and abilty to do critical comparative thinking. So yes.... this country has a problem and if your little world was directly involved you would better see the big picture. We exist only because of the laws that we enforce on our citizens. Ignore one law...then we can then can start to ignore all the laws...its only a matter of time as our "living law" will change with the culture and world we create. I support all legal immigration and guest worker programs....and what makes you think that the illegal immigrants care that these laws are on the books...they can not follow the laws we have now. Its like taking all the guns away form the good people and letting all the criminals free access in the black market. The VT crisis was a clear point of this type of critical feel good thinking. Reasoning is understanding the ramifications of the actions required to solve the problem. Your passion is noted and your wisdom will continue to grow. I know it is often hard to understand the most important word in the "Worlds lanquage" and its importance in controlling populations, governments and even in the developing and raising your own children. If you know this word... then my friend please tell me so I can confirm your current state and level of wisdom.
Obewan

Lew Orban @ 146:

Stateless,
I should be impressed by the big words and the tone of your message.....I am not. However I was glad to see a spark of enthusiasm in solving the problem and your desire to share your wisdom. You could not fiqure out that your invaded home was actually your entire country...that is one strike against your wisdom and abilty to do critical comparative thinking. So yes.... this country has a problem and if your little world was directly involved you would better see the big picture. We exist only because of the laws that we enforce on our citizens. Ignore one law...then we can then can start to ignore all the laws...its only a matter of time as our "living law" will change with the culture and world we create. I support all legal immigration and guest worker programs....and what makes you think that the illegal immigrants care that these laws are on the books...they can not follow the laws we have now. Its like taking all the guns away form the good people and letting all the criminals free access in the black market. The VT crisis was a clear point of this type of critical feel good thinking. Reasoning is understanding the ramifications of the actions required to solve the problem. Your passion is noted and your wisdom will continue to grow. I know it is often hard to understand the most important word in the "Worlds lanquage" and its importance in controlling populations, governments and even in the developing and raising your own children. If you know this word... then my friend please tell me so I can confirm your current state and level of wisdom.
Obewan

I like this tone a lot better. And yes my little world is directly involved. Yes I support legal immigration. That's why I feel the law needs to be changed. I don't agree with your anologies about guns being appliccable to this issue. The law presently caters to those who manifest their fear, prejudices, racism, hatred to hide their true motivations behind the law. Just as in the past when laws existed as recently as 30 years ago to persecute a certain group of people of darker skin. Compassion for other human beings should be driving the issue not the passions of hatred and fear. Most of these immigrants, Mexicans, are our neighbours. The are not coming from across the sea as many of our ancestors did without the permission of the native inhabitants.

Uh huh.

“We as nation have become great partly due to Mexico’s detriment and loss of national territory.”
That's right. I said partly, we would still be great. If Texas, New Mexico, Utah, California, Nevada and parts of other states weren't part of the USA and remained part of Mexico who would have benefited, Mexico or the US? Psst.

Did Mexico get paid for the lands that were stolen?
Yes, they were paid after they were stolen. What was the choice? Sell or perpetual war? War provoked by the USA's imperialist ambitions of expanding it's national territories. You fail to mention that US troops were occupying parts of Mexico, including Mexico City, when the "sale" took place, at the point of a gun. The only way for the troops to leave was for Mexico to accept the Treaty of Hidalgo dictated to Mexico by the USA. Mexico would have never voluntarily or willinglly ceded their national territoty.

If General Santa Ana had not compromised….all of Mexico would have been US land
That's right, exactly my point. What choice was there. OOps you just stepped on crap.

Instead of complaining about the 1/3 you lost over 150 years ago why don’t you want Mexico to help those on the remaining 66%.
Now where did I say I don't want Mexico helping it's own people? You're starting to sound like Hannity or O'reilly. OOps you just stepped on crap with the other foot?

So Mexico is poor because you don’t have San Diego or Las Vegas or Denver.
Did I say that? No I didn't did I? Another Hannity moment for you. OOps just put one of your feet in your mouth.
Mexico is not poor. There are poor Mexicans but there are also poor USAmericans. Just think about your question would Mexico be richer or poorer, as a country, with or without those territories? The answer is obvious.

You're missing the point.
Would we as a country be richer or poorer without those territories?

This is why Mexcians here in the US are like Palestinians.
Haven't seen a Mexican carry out a suicide bombing in recent memory, have you?
Clarify this analogy and tell me which side of this issue you stand on?