Why Petraeus' concession is less than it appears
At first blush, it may seem encouraging that Gen. David Petraeus is suddenly open to the idea of withdrawing about 4,000 troops from Iraq in January. The news isn't nearly as heartening as it may appear.
Army Gen. David H. Petraeus has indicated a willingness to consider a drawdown of one brigade of between 3,500 and 4,500 U.S. troops from Iraq early next year, with more to follow over the next months based on conditions on the ground, according to a senior U.S. official.
The pullouts would be contingent on the ability of U.S. and Iraqi forces to sustain what the administration heralds as recent gains in security and to make further gains in stabilizing Iraq. President Bush signaled the possibility of drawdowns after visiting Anbar province earlier this week. After meeting with Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker, Bush said he was told that "if the kind of success we are now seeing continues, it will be possible to maintain the same level of security with fewer American forces."
If someone were really trying to put a positive change-in-policy spin on all of this, I suppose they could come up with a pitch that's vaguely coherent. It would go something like this: Bush wants to continue with the status quo indefinitely, but here we have Petraeus agreeing with Sen. John Warner (R-Va.) that a brigade can come home fairly soon. Last week, far-right activists were saying Warner was "hurting the cause of freedom" by even suggesting a modest drawdown, but now Petraeus is apparently on board with the idea. It's a step in the right direction.
Except it really isn't. As Daniel Politi noted, "[I]s this even a real withdrawal? The goal of these pullbacks would merely reduce the number of American troops to their pre-'surge' levels of about 130,000. Is this really much of a concession when many have pointed to April 2008 as a date when the 'surge' is simply not going to be able to be sustained anymore?"
I won't do it
Well wasn't that the plan all along? Escalate, then reduce troops in time for 2008 election.
Or am I having a Vietnam war flashback?
OT:
oh, oh, oh did you see that Roh and Bush are now having a misunderstanding?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070907/ap_on_re_au_an/bush
Well three or four of our soldiers were killed in anbar province since bush was there declaring it under control.
I can't figure out what they are doing. It's like they marked up the price of the car by 10% and then advertised the price now being 10% off. No loss to the dealer and the customer thinks he's getting a good deal.
The very act of surging meant staying.
It was never going to be We surge for a few months, then leave. It was a self-fulfilling strategy, the surge ensured our inability to leave.
Sending 1000s of troops to Bagdhad to hold up a house of cards means we're doomed to forever hold up that house.
Whew...now that, that is out of the way...
A little history lesson for the moron right wingnuts that claim the 'Surge' is working and their 'evidence' is Al-Anbar province....
First....that used to be the SINGLE (yes...even more than Fallujah) most deadly area for US Troops....why you ask?
Simple....that's where the Saudi's & 'Al Queda' insurgents..err...castaways were providing arms, money, & suicide bomber/canon fodder for the struggle against the agressors...err...representatives of our good Oil pal GWBush's military (as Saudis have come to internationally refer to us....privately on Royal Saudi run Saudi TV...we're the great Satan & his crusaders)....
And since the Bush Crime Family was tired of this fact getting press coverage...and they were getting heat from the Saudi Royals (see Dick Cheney's summoning by the Saudi Royals) as well as the right wingnut puppeteers at Fox Noise/Limbo/Coulter/et al on this fact...they decided...well OK...the surge has worked here...lets pull back...err...completely out of that area
And magically (like Lucky Charms)...the violence...stabilized...and even began to take a downturn....
Second...It was in fact our troops pulling out of that region, that led to the 'relative' (funny word to use in war) peace in that region....and as a result...the Sunni militias in that region have chased out all the Shias...and can focus their ethnic cleansing of 'impure' Arab sunnis (ie...the foreign fighters...also known as Al Qaeda) from their lands...since they were only about 5% of the fight and its not their home....so thanks for the help...out you go...
In Summary....this one example that the Bush Circus Family & their lackey General do-boy Petraeus keep pimping as 'proof' that the 'surge' is working...is a complete load of (insert words here).... They are correct in there pointing to the region...but their willfully fraudulent 'reasoning' being broadcast by the MSM....as proof the 'surge is working'...is horrifying and the people that believe it...equally disgusting.
Al-Anbar is a good example....OF PULLING OUT OF THAT CIVIL WAR. We do that...the country will be forced to pull itself together....people will get their jobs back & they'll be able to rebuild without privatized interference/monopolistic malfeasance...
"But if we do that...more people will die...like Vietnam & Cambodia, etc, etc" First....that was a different region of the world...comparison should end there. Second....the CIA, Pentagon, & the rest of the 'intelligence community' were all fully aware of the Sunni-Shia rifts & the 1000 years old conflict that was kept under wraps by a brutal dictator....when he's gone...what will fill the vacuum? Oh yeah, a handpicked privatized free market society...that these folks have never been exposed to and will most certainly fight tooth & nail to the death....but hey...its a 'killer' way to make a kings fortune...and so many corporations have....and they'll be grateful...executive positions for those in the Bush Crime Family who made it all possible, by lying to everyone in the world...when they knew they were doing it...
They have no choice but to draw down troops next spring because that's when the "Splurge" collapses. No matter how they spin it, about 20,000 to 30,000 soldiers will not be replaced in Iraq in 2008.
When is the media gonna figure out the word "Troop" refers to a group of soldiers, not an individual soldier. An individual soldier is a "Trooper".
Petraeus, you betray us.
Petrayus is his name. EiEiOOOOOO
Progress?
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39164
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=74152
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6981128.stm
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/09/06/2007-09-06_iraq_gov...
Why?
I'd love to see what would happen if the Iraqi government out of the blue asked the American forces to leave immediately. What would Bush do then, I wonder?
Forget about Petraeus. Forget about the Republicans and forget the Democrats. Its up to YOU and ME to take our country back. Petraeus' is a puppet who sold his soul to the Military Industrial Complex long ago. We need people educated and dedicated to PEACE. We cannot allow the US to be run by blood thirsty, money worshipping sociopathic monsters anymore. And we cannot let cowardly Democrats stand in our way.
Every day we must call our representatives SEVERAL TIMES and tell them they're out of office unless they find a spine. Every day we must call, email and write corporate news programs and newspapers several times and demand they cover stories exposing Bushco. Every day we must call, email and write advertisers several times and tell them we're going to stop buying their products and you're telling all your friends and family to do the same.
We must do all this each and every day RELENTLESSLY. Do you know how relentlessly Karl Rove worked to build his machine? He worked 24/7. We must do the same. If we outwork them we will win. If they outwork us they will win. Its that simple.
At the end of the day you will know your country's future. If you gave your all to stop the beast we will be victorious. If you don't the evil forces will prevail.
Don't let Petraeus and his handlers write the script of history for our country. We MUST take that power away from them. We cannot sit back and just watch. We must go on the (peaceful) offensive. We must stop sitting back and being put on the defensive.
“This is the future. When war becomes the most profitable course of action, we can certainly expect more of it.” - Chalmers Johnson
I said back then when the surge was first proposed that this was a scam to let the administration reduce troop levels in the future while in reality merely bringing the troop levels back down to the normal pre-surge levels.
The pullouts would be contingent on the ability of U.S. and Iraqi forces to sustain what the administration heralds as recent gains in security and to make further gains in stabilizing Iraq.
So, when they stand up, we'll stand down.
There's a refreshing change in policy. Will somebody please call bullshit on these frauds?
Reports on CNN this morning say that the General is NOT open to even a 4K troop withdrawl (think brigade).
Things are supposedly "improving" in Iraq, but not enough that we can actually bring anyone home?
What a crock!
No need to withdrawn anyone from the Bush family. They do not serve.
It's like gas prices. They go up ... up ... up ... then they come down five cents and everyone's cheering, "Gas prices are going down! Wheeeeeee!"
We need leadership and a strategy that understands 'withdrawal' means something other than another 1,000 flag-draped coffins as a result of the 'surge'.
remember folks, the soldiers/units they are submitting a "proof of a draw down" are those units already scheduled to withdraw.
they aren't giving you anything you already have.
What they are saying is...
"OK after these troops go home, we won't bring back any replacements,.."
Bait and switch...
they'll camoflauge this anyway they can..
Repeat for 800 years... This time will be different.
Weaseldog @ 19:
Fool me once shame on me, fool me ... won't be fooled again...
Because they are in the middle of a troop rotation, the current troop level in Iraq is 168,000. The troops being rotated out will be leaving within the month and the troop level will return to 162,000. What do you wanna bet the administration tries to spin that as a troop withdrawal?
ALL THE SIZZLE WITHOUT THE STEAK. once again MSM gives headlines on statements and not actions. if you look closely enough you might even be able to see the puppet strings on the latest general puppet.
Why is this this report from General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker? Whatever happened to the Iraq war czar, General Douglas Lute? We certainly don't hear much from him.
Diplomatic efforts are crucial for Iraq and the rest of the middle east. So what happened to our public diplomacy czar, Karen Hughes?
homer www.altara.blogspot.com
General Betray Us likes to be a doormat for cokey and the 5 deferments bandit
The bottom line is that "reducing" troop levels by 4,000 or so early next year brings the # of troops down to where they are RIGHT NOW -- a record high. Today's reports say that troop levels will increase to 172,000 by December.
It's all bullshit, folks!
It's a blatant shell game. Can we get a Democrat to grow a pair and expose this bullshit? For chrissakes, just stand up and say, "Quit dicking around and get us the f*ck out of there!"
Or something to that effect.
I suppose they could come up with a pitch that’s vaguely coherent. It would go something like this:
THIS IS HOW YOU BRING BACK 160,000 TROOPS!!!!!
They will spin this any way they can. The bottom line is they have to either extend 20-30,000 troops past their already extended 15 month tour, or bring them home as required and call it a troop reduction. Stay the course is only possible by lying to our troops, AGAIN, about the length of their tour.
So why is it now OK to negotiate with alleged terrorists who were recently killing Americans?
I thought we didn't "reward bad behavior"?
-GSD
Betray Us is opening a gyros concession in Baghdad?
Joementum @ 26:
Yes, Shell gas stations.
"The goal of these pullbacks would merely reduce the number of American troops to their pre-’surge’ levels of about 130,000. Is this really much of a concession when many have pointed to April 2008 as a date when the ’surge’ is simply not going to be able to be sustained anymore?”
Are you really that stupid? Don't you remember the last thousand times these fuckers told you one nice story and then did a 180 and screwed us worse than before? I thought you blog people were supposed to have half a brain.
The goal of the statements about possible hypothetical pull backs is to yank your chain, fool. And you got yanked. Bright smiley talk about a few hundred or thousand troops coming home in the distant murky unforeseeable future is called a set up. Does it surprise anyone this kind of clap trap is coming just before the report? It's meant to add credence to a cooked report. People think, "duh, well he said they would be coming home, and the report says we're winning so we must be winning".
There are no pullbacks, just a propaganda piece about possible potential pullbacks at an unspecified time. And you people say the MSM is doing a bad job...
SEVEN dead U.S. soldiers today...how's that "surge" working for ya!??? Bush thinks we're 'kicking ass' over there, because he's not the one burying those he loves! From now on, send the fucker the bills for all the funerals and he might start noticing!
Darth_Romney @ 33:
"Bush thinks we're 'kicking ass' over there, because he's not the one burying those he loves!"
bush actually loves someone? sorry, I wasn't thinking. - himself. :(
It's just like the price of gas, or the price of coffee a few year back, when restaurants served you a cup of coffee for 10 - 15 cents, then there was this bad coffee harvest and a cup of coffee jumped to above $2.00. Gradually the price came down to $1.00 - $1.25 now where it is now, and everybody is happy with the price drop. Same as gasoline.
Peace that's a nice theory. The question is; where will you find this people in America this days? The educational system in America is so low that an average American people doesn't know their basic history. Much less their constitutional right. And beside the republican party will veto anything that will fund it's improvement. They prefer that the American people is left illiterate and uneducated so they can feed them lies and subsequently make them more controllable. It happens before (where bush was reelected twice) why not again.
Please...it is General BETRAYUS.
Has anyone asked... If the current escalation is working, wouldn't it make sense to send more forces in, in order to bring the limited success of the targeted escalation to the entire country?
plooger @ 38:
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How about surging in all the children of the Republicans in the House and Senate - that would be several hundred fresh troops right there. How about the Clinton's and Bush's Daughters - put 'em in fatigues and get them out there fighting for freedom!
Pvt Bush, Pvt Clinton - has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Sorry we don't have the armor plating for the Humvees assigned to their unit. Oh well, you go war with the Army you have...
Don't worry everybody. Bush is considering signing a peace treaty with North Korea. You know, part of the axis of evil. The ones who actually have nukes.
Hey General. If it's working, then why don't you have your President rally the country and reinstitute the draft. The Congress doesn't have to do it. He's the DECIDER. He can do it during the next recess.
Yeah...the draft...instituted by GW Bush...yeah...yeah...that's the ticket!!
US troop numbers in Iraq at all-time high
The Pentagon said the arrival of more combat brigades would temporarily push the total to as high as 172,000 over coming months before it falls back to about 160,000 troops by November or December as other units leave.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22377964-5005961,00.html
For MBA businessmen, they sure want nothing in writing or under oath, not even war reports.
General Patraeus: Get on board with the people from the country that you serve or stop lying about your sworn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the U.S. This is not an ambiguous decision that you have to consider. We, the majority of the citizens of the U.S. have said that we want out. You only need to follow our lead. That is what you have been made a General in the U.S. Armed Forces for. Your position was not bestowed upon you for any other reason. To do otherwise shows that you are no patriot at all.
Since the military dropped counting car bombings and mortar attacks from its Iraqi death tolls starting April 2007, will the Petraeus report be comparing apples to oranges. Of course, all of the Iraqi death rates immediately dropped. All of the pre-surge statistics will include car bombings and mortar attacks. If Petraeus wants to present valid statistics he must either drop the car bomb and mortar attack stats from the pre-surge totals, or add them into the post surge totals. Otherwise it sure looks like their cooking the books.
Petraeus the Magnificent
In the United States, as opposed to Pakistan or some banana republic south of Texas, the military is told what to do by civilians, and that dynamic alone, established well before wars in Korea and Iraq could have been imagined, has kept this form of government legitimate throughout several quagmires like the one we’re in now. The reasons for setting it up like this are many, but whoever’s not acquainted with the concept, read up on Rome and how Caesar came to power. By their very nature, warriors are accustomed to getting their own way, and unless there’s enough muscle within the capital to keep it from happening, the military so cherished today, can and will cut off a government’s head for the sake of winning an argument tomorrow.
When I hear about General Petraeus, as Republicans tell it, the guy is definitely the first officer to have a clue of what he’s doing over in Iraq, and when he speaks, it’s like being one of those people who were lucky enough to see John Lennon sing before he was murdered. So saith Petraeus, on right-wing radio, satellite feeds and scribbled inside the Trapper Keepers of all these pathetic clowns calling themselves Republicans today. The emperor having been naked for a couple years, is now content to fondle himself until 2009, these cowards are literally lining up for a chance to shine this General’s shoes. How far we’ve fallen, when the party of Eisenhower turns into this, a group of confused cyborgs yearning to be taken advantage of by a strong, authoritative man wearing a uniform.
Now there was a President who was hip to the flip, and well understood the fact that if you allowed a military general to waltz into DC with the type of clout being handed to Patraeus, it was like hiring junkies to run methadone clinics. Indeed, you’ll inspect the place one day and half the employees aren’t well enough to work, half of the drugs have gone missing, the paperwork is impossible to decipher and the one in charge is telling you to take it easy, calm down, it’s not that bad. What else would they tell you? The recent headline said that Patraeus might be able to let go of 4,000 troops by next spring.
So the question now is, whether or not there are some Democrats who are prepared to put this guy in his place. I doubt there are, but I am holding out hope for Russ Feingold or Chuck Hagel to rise above the middle-management funk crippling the Senate so far in 2007. Carl Levin and Harry Reid are perfect examples, a couple of guys who would definitely buy timeshares from Shelly Levine. Tweedle-dumbfuck and tweedle-dumberfuck, blocking for all their “good friends” who decided to run for President, like this is a student council meeting over when to hold the bake sale. The whole situation is to history what diarea is to a toilet bowl.
What’s left is Petraeus himself, a wanna-be cut from the same cloth as Peter Pace. Never able to appreciate that while given a whole lot of lip service by the President, it’s still a situation where too much has to be done with not enough, just like it was from the start. A ridiculous war put on the credit card by a handful of stupid people, all of whom Petraeus voluntarily covers for, lies for. In fact, the only people who understand the role of a General are occupying the White House, and it shows. Watch this idiot take one for the team he’ll never be a part of next week, at the expense of a team he actually does belong to! You know, that Army we used to have.
http://deadissue.com/archives/2007/09/07/patraeus-the-magnificent/
Bring back 5,000 publibcly, to great fanfare, and send another 10,000 secretly the next week. Sound about right?? Just how many have been sent in the surge? Anyone know for sure? (I didn't think so.)
*publicly
The General is supposed to do EXACTLY WHAT HE'S TOLD TO DO BY THE PRESIDENT. This utter crap with his pontificating about he MIGHT BE WILLING TO DO is as ridiculous as it is fraudulent. Remember that THIS IS THE GUY WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE 150-200,00 WEAPONS THAT WENT MISSING. I don't want to hear his assessments (even if not written by his boss) any more than I wish to listen to him spout off about what he's be WILLING to do.
This is nothing but a feeble version of the old “bait and switch” where Petraeus is poised each day to fail on the sword of failure so President Bobble-Head can keep rattling on about how well it’s going in Iraq. The General is the most dangerous product of the White House global management fantasy - a sheep in wolf's clothing, a politician pretending to be a warrior!
My exhortation to MR. Petraeus is to quit masquerading as a General, stop lying to the soldiers who are fighting and dying under your command, resign, go home, and run for office. Right now that's the only semi-respectable avenue still available. You and the rest of the politicians deserve each other!
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