Meet The Press: Senator Joe Biden Will Not Vote To Cut Funding For Iraq Occupation
By Logan Murphy Saturday Sep 08, 2007 11:03am
This morning on Meet The Press, Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden walks in lockstep with right-wing talking points on Iraq funding. When asked by host Tim Russert if he would vote to cut off funding for Iraq if President Bush refuses to accept a withdrawal date, Biden moves directly to the "cutting off funding means you don't support the troops" mentality pulled straight from the pages of the RNC playbook. Instead of speaking the truth, that it means appropriating funds to begin a safe and smart withdrawal from the country, not abandoning out troops, Biden instead says he won't vote to cut off funding and chooses to chastise Democrats who support it.
It's infuriating to say the least to see Biden falling for the White House framing-- not one single Democrat in Congress wants to leave our soldiers stranded in the middle of the desert with no food, water, ammo or protection--and cutting off Bush's funding would not do that--and Senator Biden should know better.
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Biden's big push in this interview is sending MRAPS (which should have been the vehicle of choice from the beginning) to the troops. The problem is, he's willing to betray the American people and cave to President Bush and his minority party in order to get them. This mentality is what has led to our prolonged presence in Iraq, the fatally flawed surge strategy and the deaths of hundreds of U.S. troops and countless Iraqi citizens. Senator Biden, you can put all the protective equipment into the spending bill you want, but you then must stand firm with the troops and the American people and fight for a timetable to get them out of harm's way and bring them home.
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Another Bush Dog identified. Put him down.
Today's "Get Fuzzy" must have been targeted at Biden...
http://tinyurl.com/3cselw
Between Biden and my own state's Amy Klobuchar, who needs to vote for Republicans anymore?
Bend over America...
Dems are a parody of themselves. Spineless in every way.
what a duma** he is. He says one smart thing and ruins the rest.
Joe reminded me of his MBNA pimping days with his performance.
Frist?
I wonder if there is some secret study out there that is telling these guys that there is some cover in enabling shrub. I thought if nothing else, polls self-preserved first. Anybody know of anything?
So who can the netroots stand up to run against him the next time his seat is up?
Would be a hard victory to get, but he at least needs to be pushed to the max by the people to remind him that he's not that charming, and that he is in fact a tool.
There goes his chance at the WH.....not like he had much of one...
Yeah, it's a combination of being a cowardly toad, as well as having been inside the Beltway so long that you no longer perceive the reality of young soldiers and civilians suffering and dying, but instead see the world as an endless series of "deals" to be made with other politicos. Guys like Biden need to be retired so that people who remember real-life experiences can get in there and make some decisions.
I am beginning to think that the Democrats want this war to continue at least until the Presidential '08 elections. The Iraq War is an albatross around the neck of every Republican running for office.
What is shameful is that Democrats would avoid doing the right thing and allow more of our troops to die needlessly, all for political calculations.
There is not a member of Congress of either party that doesn't know that the idea of cutting off spending for a war can be done without putting our troops in peril. They tout the "I can't defund the war because I support the troops" mantra because they think it plays well with the press and the voters.
Supporting the troops means bringing them home from this mindless war.
Joe Biden talks out both sides of his mouth.
Very disappointing. He is not a dumb man, just another politician.
This week is going to be very difficult for end the war people.
Would some Democrat please step forward and lead us out of this.
I dont see why he thinks he is in any way relevant on the political scene.
This man has serious issues in making decisions and sticking to them.
Someone please tell him that he has no chance in hell to be president.
Biden is right. You need more than a majority to cut off funding. All voting to cut off funding does is delay funding for the troops. Hey. I wish the GOP wouldn't take hostage the lives of our soldiers either, in order to prolong this disaster, but that's the way it is.
Biden knows he has no chance in hell of becoming prez. It's predetermined by all these assclowns who the ACTUAL candidates will be for BOTH parties.
Alright. Fund humvee armor specifically. Fund specific things to keep the troops going AND NOTHING ELSE. Why is there no targeted funding? Why is that so fucking hard? It ISN'T.
Doesn't the MSM label him a "second-tier" candidate (alone with Richardson and Dodd)?
Maybe we need a "fourth-tier."
Maybe he should attend the Rethuglican debates.
I remember during the 2004 primaries when he threw out the first ball at a Fischer Cats (the Nashua NH local semi-pro baseball team) game. He was roundly booed. Not all of the boos came from Bushies.
wmholt @ 8:
This could be true. We all pretty much disagree with people like Biden but my issue is WHY aren't they cutting off the funding? I just don't get it. Any other ideas?
Two small words sum up Biden at this point: He's finished!
This guy still doesn't "get" that you can't be out of alignment with the majority of the american people and still contend that you've got what it takes to be President.
We've had 6 very long years of Chimp not listening to the american people one iota - or Congress for that matter. The people will soon repudiate Joe Biden for this major faux pas.
Let's see...is Biden trying the A. Specter role/image of being on both sides of the fence?
What a looser.
The reality is that the Dems don't have the votes to get troop reduction policies passed. The choice then becomes, how do we convince enough Republicans to vote with us so that we can get a reduction of troops passed? The answer requires the Dems to work with some of the more moderate Repulbicans. To get what we all want...redeployment, there has to be some compromise with a few Republicans...it sucks but that is the political reality at this point. Between now and 2008(when Dems gain more control of the House/Senate/White House), the only way to have any chance of getting our kids out of the line of fire in Iraq is to work with Moderate Republicans. Translation: don't be so hard on the Democratic Leadership as their hands are tied at this time.
"Support the Troops" means stopping this form of genocide by sending them to their doom playing monkey in the middle of an ongoing civil war.
Biden's has no balls!!!
I agree with some of the earlier posts. It's amazing how congress is too damn shy to call bush out and stop funding. This is what congress does. Anyone who has taken history about the US or read up a tiny bit on the 3 branches of the government knows this. Congress has purse and can cut it off from the president if they dont approve of a war. This wasnt never intended to be an 'anti troops' process. But a legal means for bringing the troops home.
Bush needs to be hung, pure and simple. He is recklessly keeping the troops out in harms way and crying wolf if we try to move them out. And why congress fails to grasp this?
Me thinks some democrats are profiting in this in some way...same as how republicans let Bush do anything just so Republicans could control more of the country (look at how they fucked that up and royally, internationally, internally, economically and militarily).
Hawkeye @ 18:
"Their hands are tied" in some respects; however, the people are screaming for them to bring immediate impeachment proceedings and their hands seem to be tied there as well. What the hell is going on?
No way I was ever going to vote for that blowhard anyway. Useless beyond belief.
CensoredFan @ 12:
I've read that he is angling to be Hillary's SecState. Good grief, what a disaster that would be.
Hawkeye @ 18:
Pleeeeeease identify for me/us,...WHO are the moderate Repig's???
JC @ 21:
JC @ 21:
"War profiteering" on both sides of the aisle, that's what's going on - right out of our pockets and into theirs! They're all complicit and criminal in all of this.
MBNA must make some good coin off of this continued occupation.
As Major General Smedley Butler writes:
War is a racket.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Somehow you can't apply common sense to politicians. Any chance that Dennis K can end up grabbing the most votes? He's so far the only guy whose saying the right things up to this point.
Hawkeye @ 18:
meanwhile the Dem's could make as much noise about the Obstructionist Republicans as the Repug's did when the Dems tried to hold debate over the issues when they were in the minority. I'm getting sick of people using the dems lack of votes as an excuse for them to do nothing at all.
rahm_emanuel_is_a_tool @ 24:
Hillary's "popularity" is repuke spin. The human mind is like a roll of paper towels waiting to be saturated with rumor.
Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong but Biden repeatedly stated that he would need a veto proof majority in the Senate (of 67) to defund the war. This is not true. The Democrat majority simply would have to not pass any war budget. There would be nothing to veto.
Biden needs to be called to task for this misstatement.
CensoredFan @ 12:
God, I pray it's not Hill (but am afraid it is). The Thug powers that be seem a bit more undecided.
I'd be tempted to stay home. Buit obviously won't. Kinda like the choice of having my foot run over by a compact car or a truck.
sounds like Biden (R-MBNA) is running for President in the wrong party...
He's just Biden time.
I couldn't watch to the end.
I started throwing up in my mouth a little.
Does he think he was answering the question? What the hell does funding the Cougar have to do with getting troops out of Iraq? What kind of either/or bullshit is that?
"Either:
(a) you vote to keep the troops in Iraq with Billions of dollars worth of new armor plated vehicles that we should have supplied to them three or four years ago, or
(b) you are sending them out on their last patrols with no food, a canteen full of water laced with salmonella, and backup vehicles made by Tonka and Matchbox."
What the fuck is going on in Washington right now? Is there some kind of mass hysteria happening?
Hawkeye @ 18:
This may be true, but then why don't the Dems pass it without an overwhelming majority, send it to the President, and have him veto it? Won't HE be the one to look bad?
Pssst....eh, Joe...If they weren't there...They wouldn't need the MRAPS.
Moron.
ted @ 31:
Agreed. Those of us "in the know" are fully aware of this fact, but the majority of
the general public is uninformed/uneducated...too lazy to keep up w/facts instead
rely upon "spin" as truth.
Horrible.
Would you defund the Iraq war?
Look at the new tank I invented!
War and fear is good for the economy, for prosperity, for the children, for freedom!!!
"I am beginning to think that the Democrats want this war to continue at least until the Presidential ‘08 elections."
Of course they do. The US economy is riding on the success or failure of our venture in the ME. It's a resource/survival war and we're not going to sit by and let China or Russia or whoever gain control of the oil first. Both sides know this. YOU and I are NOT supposed to know this. We're supposed to think it is about "freedom" and "democracy". I don't know how Kucinich's plan to leave Iraq would play out. It seems to come down to whether or not Americans would choose to continue the killing in Iraq so they could drive their SUVs, or if they would be willing to make major sacrifices/changes in their way of living.
Biden understands that if the war is over, his tank doesn't have anything to do.
"Could you imagine how many more of our young people's lives would be saved if we opened up three more fronts, tripling the use of MY tank that only I could appropriate funds for? That's leadersheep!"
Biden
What inane non-logic. Thousands more civilians and troops die to fund equipment. Biden proposes the snake keep eating it's own tail til the end of time.
Fucking moron is right.
senoritchy @ 40:
Also Joe, it doesn't cost billions to retro fit the under armored humvees. You could have affected and protected more military personel for the money through proper prioritization of funding.
This is why much, most, of the Democratic leadership is bankrupt and useless. Cowardly, shortsighted and foolish. They meekly use the neocon framing on issues.
These are the same Dems who are urging we don't mount primary challenges to those Dems who continue to enable Bush and the neocons.
Start challenging them in the primaries. It's the only solution left.
New slogan song for the Iraq war and Biden's (go nowhere) campaign, "Until The Twelfth of Never".
Curtilingus @ 45:
Thank you.
With respect to Biden and almost ALL others in "our" Congress, it seems that Mark Twain's
quote is most appropriate:
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I
repeat myself."
Assuming then that Joe Biden knows that it is untruthful for him to say that a veto proof majority (67) is needed to defund the war, when in reality only a simple majority (51) is needed, he wants to pretend that the Democrats have no power to stop the war, when they really DO have the power. Why would he do that? It makes no sense (unless the Democrats like Biden really want the war to continue and they can then simply sit on the sidelines and blame the Republicans for things that go wrong). Or is it simply the Biden's simple don't have the courage of their conviction or, even worse, absolutely have no conviction whatsoever.
I saw the interview and I kept screaming if you want to make the troops safe, Joe, bring them home.
To hell with him!
someone posted in atrios comments that pat buchanan said this morning that "iran will happen in the next two weeks'...but i dont even see him listed as being on anyn of the sunday shows.
ted, Even worse does he have a financial interest in continuing the war. he was basically bragging about the size of the contract that the voted on. I'm sure it did more for him than bring jobs to his district.
ted @ 50:
As someone said earlier.."He is just Biden his time"...waiting until Nov. 08 and hoping for
some sort of important Cabinet appointment.
A couple interesting photos of Bush kissing Terrorist ass.
http://abuaardvark.typepad.com/abuaardvark/2007/09/bush-and-abu-ri.html
ted @ 50:
Remedy: Challenge all "circular seats" like Biden's with Progressives with the keenest intent and purpose we've ever had. Cut off these aging umbilical cords in congress and the senate.
biden has more "hair" than the last time i saw him.
Doogie, a Cabinet appointment by Hillary or by Romney?
There are really only two reasonable choices among the Democrats for president. The rest will either not withdraw at all, or slowly trickle out and leave bases in place.
Biden, for all his teeth, is a mainstream democrat with nothing new to offer.
Good bye then, biden.
Odd how the source of the stench was once handled according to the constitution with impeachment.
Instead of throwing out the rotting chicken in the fridge, the SOURCE of the stench, we just keep thinking about how to keep replacing refrigerators.
wakeup @ 41:
Yes, our involvement in the ME has little to do with Iraq by itself. It’s about the neighborhood and our strategic interests in that neighborhood. Not just oil, but economies based on oil-reserve currency, supply and competition from China/Russia/India, etc.
And we blew it.
We made no friends by creating millions of Iraqi refugees, killing half million Iraqi citizens, destroying their infrastructure, and stealing their oil. The solution to this fiasco is not to “surge” some more. The debate about whether to bring the troops home or stay for victory is ridiculous. The debate should be about how to how to rectify the damage done, both to Iraq and the US military & economy. Funding the troops is no answer. I don’t know what the best course of action should be to rectify our mistakes, but the first step in any event should be to stop the hemorrhaging. Stop the killing, stop the theft on both sides, and stop the saber rattling. These things only lead to more of the same.
Those who say leaving Iraq would lead to chaos are right. But mostly for US. We WILL lose most influence in the region, which would jeopardize our oil-supply and the Dollar hegemony on oil-trade. But to keep doing what we’ve been doing for the last 5 years will realize that that outcome only faster.
"Sit!
Good Biden.
Now roll over."
said George Bush.
crazylove @ 60:
I don't want to open the fridge or move it. How bout if we just get a new HOUSE?
Albatross @ 2:
Thank you, I thought I was the only Minnesotan disillusioned by Klobuchar. I wish Betty McCallum would challenge her when the time comes.
Okay, this pisses me off. Is Biden really trying to play like he doesn't understand that the president *has* to take the funding bill Congress gives him? Sure Bush can veto til he's blue in the face but unless he accepts some bill the war ends by default when the funding runs out. You don't need a f**king veto-proof majority, you just need to keep sending him a new version of the same bill - with a timetable - each time he vetos. Ultimately Bush is the one that has to blink.
This war should have effectively ended the first time one of these funding requests came up to after Democrats controlled Congress. At this point the Democrats are effectively conspiring with the Republicans to keep the war going while whining the whole time about how there's nothing they can do.
[Oh and if you're so concerned that the money you do give is used to pay for appropriate armor for the troops then write that into the damn bill. It's not a binary proposition, you can vote to allocate money for armor without voting to continue the war]
Not fit to be President. The only means to end the war now, is to stop funding it.
Is anyone really surprised? The Democrats are no better then the Republicans.
Bye-bye Biden.
We're saving lives by creating machinery for war? In this preemptive war, now a civil war we created no lives are being saved. Save American troop's lives. Bring them home now.
This idiot has proven his incompetence for years and years. If you've been paying attention to politics at all, why would you give any credence to Biden now? Really.
By the way, he is the quintessential, prototypical Washington insider. He IS part of the problem.
I guess our government is more like a coalition government now where the two parties share power, but dissent is not tolerated, only staged by each party to give the perception of a dynamic government. This guarantees the power will be kept in the coalition(the democratic republican coalition).
Kinda like an oligopoly, but with government instead of business.
crazylove @ 13:
That funding has already been approved, he admitted that. What he didn't go on to say was the pentagon won't spend the buy the equipment, so what can we do?
Every American wants to provide the best equipment for our troops, their families are crying and praying it. We can provide all the money in the world to buy the equipment the troops need but they are not going to get any. The pentagon feels that money is too valuable to spend on our young people.
The only option we have is to cut off the troops by never bringing a funding bill up for a vote.
geez biden, you talked a good game for awhile there. then you saw your bid for the candidacy really was going down the tubes so in a last effort to revive those hopes, you fell in lockstep with bush. you threw your hat in the ring of bush's game. as such, you showed your true colors. win at any cost. Please, step to the back of the line. you've not only lost your bid, but in the process of doing what you did, you also lost your self respect and the constituency that still supported you. please, sir, to the back of the line.
Feck him then.
What do you expect from a guy who was instrumental in the passing of the horrible reagan Just Say No drug laws, that have overwhelmed prisons, and pushed America into becoming one of the top nations to imprison her youth.
Joe Biden isn't know by the moniker "Slow Joe Biden" for nothing.
(I bet he's the Democrat whose been on the Sunday talk shows more than any other single politician, or it sure seems that way.)
Curtilingus @ 63:
Let's raze the neighborhood first, so we have plenty of room to build an even bigger house, a HUGE house that will cost trillions of dollars before it's all over.
I'd like to see Biden take that Cougar for a little Telephone Pole high ride and ask him what he thinks of this war after he lands. I doubt those young soldiers were as happy to be in Iraq as this $cumbag would like us to think. I hate these warmongering blow hards, I hate them.
Smedley Butler @ 27:
Every Iraqi that survives gets a free credit card with 0 % introductory rate!
* (0 % introductory rate good until initial purchase, at which time rate increases to 21%.)
This war will go on for decades, no matter who you vote for. The war profiteering Merchants of Death demand it.
Pro-war candidate Joe Biden.
Joe Lieberman's body double.
If only those poor Africans in Darfur were a little lighter in shade and had oil under their ground to steal. We would be pumping billions into Africa to "save" them.
But then again, with Bush's intervention even more of them would suffer so perhaps it's best their is no oil in Darfur to liberate.
Who wants to bet we'll see those "super Humvees" patrolling America's mean streets in the near future, keeping it save for Bank America and MBNA. As the financial divide here increases, so will the need for citizen control.
These new vehicles may protect our troops better, but not as good as bringing them home. We must stop being occupiers!
It is simply stunning to read the comments of so-called liberals when they claim that the Democrats cannot cut off the funding because they do not have enough votes to do so. As Congressman Kucinich has tried to point out, apparently to no avail, when the next vote comes up for funding, the Democrats can choose not to vote for the funding at all, Period. This means, of course, that the funding for the occupation cannot continue because no votes were taken to vote, not simply for an amount, but for ANY amount. Kucinich has also said that there is already enough money in the pipeline to provide for the welfare of the troops so that they will not be left out in the cold. So it is extremely disingenuous for Biden to imply that the troops will not be taken care of if the funds were to be finally cut off from the occupation.
Why do some of us who want us out of Iraq actually believe that cutting off funding for the war will result in U.S. troop withdrawal? It won't. The notion that cutiing off funding for the war is the only way to end the war is a false notion. The only way to get us out of Iraq and get our troops home is to impeach Bush and Cheney and get another person in to the White House as our commander-in-chief.
The funding for this war is a sham. There IS no funding. It's almost entirely being run up on our big fat national credit card for our children and grandchildren to pay off, and will reasonably result in the economic meltdown of the United States.
Reconsider the thinking that cutting off funding will do anything at all. The commander-in-chiefs have to be replaced.
There are really only 2 possibilities left here:
1) GW used the NSA wire taps to get so much dirt on the Dems that they have no choice or lose their jobs/go to jail or...
2) They are all complicit in this fiasco and we are being played for fools while they run their coup.
Pick one, either way we are screwed.
#52--grover nerdquist: Pasty Pat Buchanan was on with John McLaughlin this morning on PBS. I was reading the newspapers and was only half listening. Buchanan may also have been on MSNBC with that dizzy blonde, Alex Witless. Isn't she the one with the Sunday morning gig? I don't watch MSNBC but back when I did she was always on the weekends.
Winning. All these IVY League politicians have been taught that winning is the only thing.
It's as though Vince Lombardi has coached all these idiots to win no matter what.
Fascists don't do gray: it's black and white, with nothing in between. Our Reps, who "won" their seats to congress and the senate, for the most part cannot see grey. To see the world as complex, and confusing, is weak, but to be "Dead Certain", is strong and encouraged by Washington.
If I could move out of this country right now, I would do so. Our Reps don't give a rats ass about us. What the hell can we do?
Out of the race. Bye Joe.
/Lieber-Biden Go Cheney yourself, Joe. Oops, I guess you just did already.
OK, Joe you don't have the votes to end the war. You could still at least fucking try. I'm actually angrier with the democrats at this point because I had some basic expectations of them, whereas I have none with the Republicans. Forget a third party in this country, we need a second party.
Straight Shooter @ 77:
I sure like this rotting chicken analogy. Discussing whether funds should be allocated for troop armor is like arguing which part of the chicken smells worse – the wings or thighs.
I think Biden has been around too long. He is right in one respect. The Democrats don't have enough votes in the senate--in fact, they are not even close, unless Collins (running scared, ME), Coleman (running scared in MN), Smith of Oregon, Warner (nothing to lose and nothing to gain VA), Hagel (had it with the Bush bullshit and fellow repuke bullshitters), Voinovich (lost in space), Sununu (despised by NH voters all took firm stands and voted against further spending or a bill to bring these soldiers home now.
The dems are so petrified that they have become paralyzed with fear that the Repugs are going to kick this down the road to the next Prez. I think they feel they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Which, is actually ridiculous, the voters overwhelmingly, want out of Iraq NOW--not 2009. It was the repugs who ended the Vietnam war and for the last 20 years have successfuly painted the Dems as the ones who lost Vietnam. Another urban myth.
I'm not voting for anybody unless they tell me that we are leaving immenently, or they take leadership on it now. That eliminates Clinton, Edwards and almost the entire dem. field. There is no way in hell I will vote for Hillary. We don't need Bush lite running this nation. People will laugh, but Gravel is right about this war and so is Kucinich.
And what, Sen Biden, happened to those soldiers after being thrown 20 feet in the air in a giant armored cage? Did they dust themselves off and go back for more? Seriously, it is not only about life or death. Our advances in protection may be keeping our soldiers alive, but with lost limbs, traumatic brain injury, PTSD, etc. The only real way to protect our troops is to get them out of harms way...NOW!
America needs fewer Republicans and better Democrats.
Biden's time is done.
Patrick @ 11:
Funding for the troops is funding for the war. It is as plain as the nose on your face.
Cut the funding.
End the war.
Ron McD @ 9:
Dennis Kucinich is the man, the f*cking MSM would rather piss up a rope than cover an anti corporate candidate
Biden will continue to waste money on a war based on lies that has TREASONOUSLY helped destroy the US military capability, worldwide good will and will kill and maim more? Hey Joe! FUCK YOU.
I wish Randi Rhodes would stop drinking Biden's kool aid
I am as anti-Bush, anti-(this)war as the next guy, but I watched the show and I think you've missed the point of Biden's comments today.
Biden is being a realist - he's not jumping on the Bush bandwagon.
I think we all agree that we dont have the votes to fully cut Bush's funding and override his veto. Biden realizes this too and after visiting Iraq and seeing how our sons and daughters are getting torn apart, he wants to take a proactive approach. Instead of taking a "sticking by principles" approach and therefore doing nothing, he's being realistic and wants to protect our troops.
Oh wow... He is sooo passionate about protecting our troops that he wants to keep the feeding frenzy at the troff going as long as it takes... even if it means KEEPING the TROOPS there..
What a fucking moron...
To provide for the welfare of the troops is one thing, to have true and genuine compassion for thier pain and suffering is another thing. The Dems. is yet to articulate a real reason why this war should continue....all recent arguments seems to be going that way under the disguise of "supporting the troops" talk. All I can think of, is that they maybe looking at how some people on the other side have profited in some ways from this war, and they maybe feeling if we can keep this war going long enough maybe we too can get our turn.
They can't even get Lieberman to tell us what happened in the failure to respond adequately to Katrina...let alone fix New Orleans....why are they looking now to own Iraq.
HE SOUNDS JUST LIKE A REPUBLICAN, IN FACT MOST OF THEM DO.
Millions for Defense (of soldiers), Not one penny for tribute (for Bush).
TheBurrito @ 100:
Sorry Burrito, if you support funding the occupation, you support the occupation. Logic 101. Period. End of sentence.
BTW all, it's *not* a war. It's an occupation.
rahm_emanuel_is_a_tool @ 104:
True.
Let’s say the Texas National Guard marched into Oklahoma to secure the oil-pumps because of the OK bombing years ago. Then they started torching the place and siphoning off all oil profits to the Texas State Legislature. In the process, some of them get burned. Should we be debating whether or not to fund fire-retardant uniforms for these national guardsmen?
This analogy isn’t that far off. Should we be protecting our troops? Well, yes. But protecting them to do what? And if by not providing them with fire-retardant uniforms, they also go home, not get burned AND stop illegally occupying a place where nobody wants them, isn’t that better?
No, it’s not about funding the troops. It’s not even what the troops are doing. It’s about what this administration is telling the troops to do…and why. By funding the troops, we’re not protecting Johnny from down the block, we’re complicity paying for a policy – and that policy is wrong.
The headline properly describes the conflict as an OCCUPATION.
New funding is intended only to extend the OCCUPATION.
Support the troops by ending the OCCUPATION.
It's been obvious to me for the last year or so that Biden and Liberman are cut from the same whole cloth. Why it is taking others so long to catch on is the real mystery.
You know - I watched that interview and came away with a far deifferent sense than you did Logan. Biden said he'd vote for the funding because it's the only way to get the armored vehicles they need to survive the war. He knows that those soldiers are going to be there regardless of the posturing on capitol hill because have an irrational CinC who would, for political gain, leave them stranded without armor, fuel and munitions and blame the Democrats.
He also took and passed 9th grade Civics - something I'm betting most Americans whether left or right didn't. It requires 60 votes to get anything substantive done in the Senate. Yes - the Democrats with the help of a couple of moderate Republicans, can muster a simple majority, but not enough to invoke cloture and certainly not enough to override a certain Presidential veto of any effort to force him to bring the military home.
Logan - you're guilty of spin because the limitations of reality frustrate you. Before bloviating - please take a course or two in how things work.
And I'm a socialist willing to vote for Democrats because reality is that voting further to the left is a vote for the Republicans. Wrap your head around that idea.
In this clip he said the surge has failed:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/09/biden-just-back-from-ira_n_6364...
It does not matter, the gop will never vote to withdraw.
The tour of duty ends in the Spring unless they extend it again.
A Dem President is the only way to end this occupation.
straight shooter @ 108:
But NOT to get "nothing" done, i.e. BLOCK funding.
straight shooter @ 108:
And that's ALL it takes to end the occupation.
Simple, no? See, *I* did take and pass 9th grade civics also.
TheBurrito @ 100:
I don't think it is possible to MISS anything that obvious.
Well..unless maybe, some poor good hearted fool tricked themselve into believing that these cannibals give a fuck about our... 'troops'... When they dont give a fuck for the class of people that the 'troops' come from in the first place...
Then maybe you could miss it.
I would like to hear the dumbass democrats make a distinction between the millions and billions of dollars that are going into the pockets of private contractors in Iraq vs. funding to make sure our troops are safe and well cared for (and brought home!)
Why do WE have to pay for destroying and rebuilding a country Bush destroyed? Fuck Bush and all the assholes that back his fucking war.
[...] won’t vote for this guy for [...]
Joe Biden Lieberman, need we say more?
Vote all the Bastards out, no one is listening to the taxpayers anymore. The Bastards!!!!!
Senator Joe "Bend Over" Biden is always true to himself.
If the military phase of the war is over, why does the soldiers need more equipment?.
My understanding is that the second phase of the operation should take place in the form of economical and political reconciliation. I know that security is still the main concern but our soldiers are not trained to be policemen, neither can they be involved in Iraqi politics, and they themselves are not investment banks and economical personels so in my opinion there is nothing left for them to do in Iraq.
All we will get from Biden's type of attitude is more deaths, more debt and more disgrace. I weep for our country.
rahm_emanuel_is_a_tool @ 110:
Sorry - you get an F.
I taught it in 12th grade - it was called Problems of Democracy and one of them is that the Congress cannot force the President to do anything unless it overrides his veto. Yes, they can withhold funding, but that doesn't bring the soldiers home. It just puts the military between a rock and a hard place.
Sorry rahm - you flunked.
The teacher.
pathetic pussilanimous pussyfooter
fugg the dlc
[deleted - thanks for your concern, but please stop with the insults.]
Biden (D-Hair Club for Men) has always been a phony, elitist hack. He believes that he & fellow members of the political classes have the answers, & us peon voters just need to shut up and marvel at their wisdom (except for an every 4 yr. uncritical endorsement of the Select).
No news here! Move along . . .the only answer is a
thirdmake that 2nd political party.Aren't you glad that Joe Biden is in the spectrum of 'too low on the list to be able to win the presidency' zone?!? I do not want Biden in the White House and he is the perfect target for Chris Dodd and Mike Gravel to stomp in debates and get ahead in the polls. Good riddance to bile Biden. I am sorry the loser had to go down the road of Nancy Pelosi, but apparently, that is the case. It is a sorry path to follow, but the Yellow Dog Democratic cowards choose to go down it.
What no one wants to say, is that everyone is afraid that if the funding is cut off, Bush will keep the troops in harm's way and allow them to be slaughtered for purely political purposes.
[...] risk he is taking to stand on principle here, yet he is doing it anyway. He knows he will be viscously attacked by the far left, and yet he is clear on not putting his son or other soldiers in more danger to [...]
buh bye Biden
If Biden is the nominee I'll stay home. It's tyhat simple.
..
We need better Dems. We need Independents with name recognition. Is Cindy Sheehan available for cloning?
We need 60 Senators, a solid Progressive majority in the House, and a rock-solid Progressive in the Oval Office.
We need Mike Gravel for Vice President. As President Pro-Tem, he could hold Senate 101 remedial classes for his brethren. First Lesson - How to Grow a Set. Or maybe install him as Secretary of Smiting. Don't laugh! He'd do it.
.
Biden supports keeping the troops in harms way.
Biden supports more warring, using our troops as the tool for murder.
Biden supports illegal war, not a just war.
Biden wants Bush's job. You think he's wants less than Bush?
Biden says, "Support war contracts and the military industrial complex."
Biden adopts the "break it, buy it" policy...
Biden thinks keeping the Bull in the china shop is the right move.
Biden thinks the Bull can glue the broken dishes and make it better.
Biden = Bull
.
AConfederacyofDunces @ 127:
Might as well vote Repugnicant.
You'll get pretty much the same thing.
Or vote third party and flex your civic rights!
.
rahm_emanuel_is_a_tool @ 104:
Since when is anything in this world as simple as being black or white? I can appreciate your sticking to principles, and I also like to do the same, but when tens of thousands of people are dying and getting injured, you have to stop and take a reality check.
Yes, Biden could "fall in line" and vote against funding the war. What will happen? The Republicans will filibuster and then nothing will happen. So Biden will have participated in a moral victory and appeased you, but at the cost of several hundred more lives. Do you feel comfortable telling troops "Sorry, out of principle, I can't give you more armor. But hey, at least I feel good about my moral victory."
If we had those extra 9-16 votes, then we could really start condemning our elected representatives are failing us. Until then, we have to mitigate our problems.
I think the "this is like korea and japan" bs has actually won some of these people over, even though they would never say that. what a shame. sham
Tell Joe what you think of his ideas on Iraq.
PlanForIraq@JoeBiden.com
I am giving up hope.
Taarak @ 105:
I second your analogy.
The troops are being used as tools...
drivel, dissembling and donkey-dung. the democratic party has sealed their fate.
Biden, go join your pal Holy Joe.
Wow. I just ventured over to MBNA Biden's blog. It's almost as bad as freeperland! Of course, there are only about a dozen or so comments, but one said Biden might be better than JFK!
The Dem's always wrong interpretation of the Republican's cry of weakness reminds me of the story of a ten year old girl. When told by her mother that the boys were only taunting her to climb a telephone pole so that they might see her underwear, The girl said " I fool them by not wearing any.
Bidens version of "Oh Yeah I'll show you who supports the troups" smacks of a ten year olds' mental development.
Anyone who thought Biden was any different was naive.
He sounds like Mitt Romney or Guiliani. Down with Biden. Their lives would be 100% safer at home. He sounds revved up for more war, AND LOTS MORE SPENDING, to me. Dump the bum. Send him over. He must have relatives that can go.
uhhh....Biden is a useful idiot. We expect talking points from Repubs....but goddamn Dems need to stand the fuck up and stop falling for BS.
I didn't support this war but I am not going to fall lock and step with the "WITHDRAW NOW!" crowd. Yes the Iraq war was a mistake... but it's a mistake to think that simply withdrawing will make the world safer for you and me. Biden is simply operating in reality. Anyone who has researched him knows he has a solid plan to reduce US presence but keep Iraq stable. Sure, it's not as sexy as "PULL THE TROOPS OUT NOW!"... but he has a real strategy... unlike President Bush or the other talking point Democrats. I'm a liberal but President Bush knocked out the foundation to a deck of cards... if we don't come up with a unique strategy for stabilizing the region... we will be fucked. Pulling out is too simplistic... but popular. Fucking idiots.
straight shooter @ 118:
Glad you were not my teacher. Yes, the Congress can not *force* the president to do someting. They can, however, prevent him from doing things. And not funding the occupation forces it to end. That is what brings them home. Ya think a teacher of such a course might have pointed that out to his students. None of them pointed it out to you? Damn what has become of education in this country?
TheBurrito @ 131:
Well, kfor a start, "black and white" is as simple as "black and white." As is "occupying Iraq" and "not occupying Iraq" and "dead" or "not dead."
So.... the Thuglicans fillibuster and nothing happens. No funding. No occupation. We may *never*have the votes to ver ride. And certainly not before January 2009. Easy to say if you are not one of, nor know one, nor care about, the thousands that will be killed and maimed before then. I do.
Nooooo!!!
Oh, Biden, Bidne!! What a Disappointment!! What a God Damn Disgustingly Sickening Disappointment!!!
Can we count on anyone anymore????
Are we Screwed or what???
That's why this corporatist whore not only has to chance at all in '08, but also why he needs to be put out to pasture.
Fuck you, Biden.
He must be getting a cut. I can't think of any other possibility that may have persuaded him.
Joe Biden can go smoke a prong! F* Joe Biden!
I've been pissed off at Good Ol' Boy Joe since I witnessed his simpering self serving performance during the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings.
What I do find really interesting is the fact that both he and Johnny Walnuts were both members of the "Keating Five", a bipartisan group of corrupt legislatures who helped pass deregulation that made the whole S&L debacle possible. If voters paid any attention to history what so ever neither one of these tools would be in office today.
Joe and Johnny have been pimping themselves to the highest bidder for as long as I can remember, and that's gettin' to be a pretty long time.
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