Open Thread: Congressional Democrats Spot a Backbone?
By bluegal Saturday Sep 08, 2007 10:30pm
From Harper's.
John Amato’s virtual online magazine…OK, It’s a blog!
©2009 Crooks And Liars
From Harper's.
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Sweet Jesus, Congressional Democrats are PUSSIES!!!!!!!
(There. I feel a little better.)
I won't believe it until all the cards are on Pelosi's table.
I doubt it.
You can do it Dems....
I don't want to say "We suck again" okay?....
Sweet Jesus! What is it?
That, is what we human beings refer to as a spine, Democrats.
All of you Congressional Democrats have one.
Try using it sometime.
Come on Dems....
Time to pull out that inner bitch and show 'em your stripes....
Ya I have to admit, after caving on the war, the patriot act and the warrantless wiretapping, I'd be hard pressed to think of what they could stand up for that would be meaningful. Kinda took the wind out of my sails about the '08 elections, ya know? For a while after '06 I was all fired up about '08 but now I've slunk back into my former apathy.
Mmmm sweet sweet apathy.
Turn to people.
That cartoon is hilarious!
Sad, too, but still hilarious!
Great cartoon. They better realize what to do with it if they did.
No spine, no backbone, nevah gonnah happenning . .
Work like dogs to get them out, and find new ones to replace them.
No WAY the 1% is evuh gonna act in OUR behalf . . . . gotta change the system.
Duck And Cover.
Objects in mirror are same size as perceived.
Consult beer if condition persists.
Errrrrrppppppppp . . . . .
LOL!! That's a great cartoon
Vets have to deal with brain damage. If you're fat, your boss might not insure you.
Sweet Jesus! Mr. Fish rules :)
Investigate the singular event that made them lose it. You know what I'm talking about.
Received one of those stock replies from Dianne Feinstein to my letter - yes, actual written letter - urging her and her colleagues to impeach Bush and Cheney. Her response? "It would be too divisive to the country at this time... blah, blah, blah."
What do the criminals in the White House have to do to get the Democrats to act? Burn a friggin' flag? Confess to the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey?
The sad truth is that the Democrats have no intention of doing anything except try to capture the White House and both houses of Congress. After they accomplish that, they will continue the war in Iraq, continue to consolidate executive power, refuse to get rid of the Patriot Act or the Military Commissions Act, and launch a war with Iran if Bush doesn't beat them to it.
In short, a Democratic administration will be no different than the current administration. It is absolutely the time to abandon hope in these ass hats and seek a different way forward.
" Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. "
" The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. . . . "
" We've arranged a global civilization in which most crucial elements -- transportation, communications, and all other industries; agriculture, medicine, education, entertainment, protecting the environment; and even the key democratic institution of voting -- profoundly depend depend on science and technology. We have also arranged thing so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. "
---Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World, 1996
No no, it's just some other skeletal part......Dems do not have a backbone. Move along, nothing to see here......
Mr Pelicano @ 16:
...and I say #18 as someone who wants to believe in Dems.....
Mr Pelicano @ 16:
Exactly but for 'Democrats' you should substitute 'corpratists', 'Clintonistas' or perhaps use Sirota's useful 'Money Party' meme. This is along struggle we are engaged in but the first step is to understand who opposes progressive change in this country. The MI Complex is what is mainly responsible for the Democrats lack of 'spine'. Most, if not all, elected congressfolks are beholden to the MI Complex. The people who profit from war in our nation, and the are legion, are calling the shots. It's the wrong perspective to say that 'Democrats are spineless...' rather you should frame it as 'Many in the Democratic Party are the creatures of the war industry and thus will never vote to reign in America's number one business: Supplying the war machine.'
For the latest Iraq war news, reports, statistics and key documents, including the GAO, Jones, and updated NIE reports, visit:
"The Iraq Document Center."
Ray McGovern says 1967 is 2007, and he's, as usual, correct.
Petraeus/Westmoreland - history repeats itself.
I saw that fox news parody program tonight, it was even worse than I expected.
So I did a little research and found this gem:
The pilots received generally poor reviews. MetaCritic's television division, which produces composite scores based on prominent reviewers' opinions of television pilots, other episodes, and/or DVD releases, gave The Half Hour News Hour pilots a score of 12 out of 100, making it the lowest rated television production ever reviewed on the site.
:D
soothsayer @ 24:
We should have a contest to name a show, any show, that was worse than "The Half Assed News Hour" on Fox.
xoites defends Constitution @ 25:
Well, any of fox's other news programs is worse.
baby jesus asks not where the spine is
but where is the cerebral cortex?
baby jesus worked a long time on the cortex and so many refuse to use it?
In the Sunday comics, today, Get Fuzzy by Darby Conley had a great cartoon. Bucky the Cat finds a worm, declares it must be phyla democrata. Hillarity ensues. If you haven't seen it, check it out.
Note, in case you don't know, the artist is clearly left.
I've voted democratic for 40 years, but this may be the election on the independent for me. I am sick and tired of spineless democratic political realists. I was an extremely unsuccessful supporter of Shirley Chilsom for president in 72, in the Iowa caucuses and everyone in the (really) smoke filled backroom wanted to go for Muskie! Enough of the spinelessness! Impleach Cheney, then Impeach Bush.
How long will it take the Dems to wake up to the fact that Americans don't want this war anymore and haven't for quite a while? Nope- we don't believe in the surge or any other wishful magic beans Bushco's trying to peddle. Nope- we don't want to fund it anymore. We're not waiting for the magical moment when BetrayUs tells us that golly gosh, it's working! I guess we're supposed to believe him and not our lying eyes. Stand the fuck up, Democrats. Hundreds of people will die this week while you sit around and wait for results.
Isaac @ 30:
It's not just the war. We want our democracy back.
The repubs played us, now the dems are playing us, bush will bomb Iran and the mess will get bigger. If Ron Paul steps up to stop the funding somehow...I will vote for him!
Ron @ 31:
Damn straight. They are on our payroll. They need to act like it.
NONsequitur @ 32:
Ron Paul is a bat shit insane libertarian... The problem is that the current GOP bunch is so fucking nuts that this guy who would other ways be laughed back to his libertarian rat hole of "I got mine so fuck you," now looks midly sane in comparison.
Kucinich is a democrat and was against the war from the get go, and makes much more sense on social issues that affect most Americans than Ron Paul.
Ron Paul is basically saying this: "The government sucks, so I want to run for head of government in order to dismantle it." If he were your mechanic and you took your car with a bad carburetor, he would probably just destroy your car and tell you that you should not expect him to fix it for you: "you should figure out how to get to work on your own. You know... how true grizzly mountain men of yore used to be able to do everything without having the government help them"
Republican pollster Frank Luntz in 2003:
Republican pollster Frank Luntz in 2007:
Translation:
Sigh.
:lol: that toon is some funny shit man!
Current pledge of allegiance:
Suggested substitute:
Re: #16,19,&21
Glad to hear that somebody's writing real letters. I like 'em because they draw a real response from the member's bloated staff. The downside is that this takes weeks because the letter must pass through the congressional mail sniffer. (cost: $187 bazillion)
-Might Senator Feinstein be concerned about hubby Richard Blum's big DOD contract in Iraq?
What a choice. Parasitic Republicans, Useless Democrats, Malignant Libertarians... I'm making my own political party.
Zenrage @ 39:
Wanna join the Libeqrats? (Hee hee....it's my own little party. It would be cool to actually start a party that got somewhere, though. Looooooooooooooooong shot, I realize, but we can dream, right?)
The DEMs have no spine because they think we will huff and puff and still support them in '08. They don't think we have anywhere else to go. What they don't realize is that many of us are so fed up with their non-representation that we will simply stay home and sit out '08. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. Why should we vote unless we have someone to vote for? They are showing us everyday that they are no better than the corrupt GOP>
xargaw @ 41:
Oh, they realize that full well. And they don't really care. They just factor it into the equation.
I've worked in professional politics. I watched the campaign paradigm switch from "reach the swing voters" to "turn out your own voters." And it's getting worse.
See, all each individual politician worries about in this electoral system is maintaining that 50%+ vote within his own district or state. It doesn't matter if only 10% of a district's residents come out to vote, as long as just one more than half of those vote for you.
Staying home will do nothing. It takes away no power from those who end up winning the elections. Incumbent Democrats are just doing what they always do. Riding the bad times out. They know that most likely, most of them are going to stay in office as long as they do the right campaign math and fund raising. So, stopping the war, impeaching Bush, etc., aren't really priorities for them. They figure if they just ride this out, and the wave of disgust for Bush is still strong in '08, they'll have the House, an actual majority in the Senate and the White House, whether the electorate is largely fired up or completely demoralized.
Kucinich has a spine of cobalt steel. Hey Tucker, it's STRENGTH THROUGH PEACE, not peace through strength.
tucker would not know a Spine if he fell over it either...remember he used to sit on the same side with Novak(crossfire)...I am sure that damaged him for life...geez .....I love how in the cartoon NOBODY actually goes near the spine- won't even touch it...shoot that is so accurate....( I love the Kucinich - cobalt steel...so true...and btw he has a goddess of a wife- so it has done him well to be a person of strength and conviction...)
I'm just chiming in on Mike's comments, but Laura Bush just got free healthcare.
www.Strike911.org
^^^ THAT is how you will make THEM take notice.
Everything else is like farting in the wind.
You don't need a spine when you're in bed.
Researchers,
Re: New Bin Laden Tape an Obvious Fake
You might want to take a look at this blog entry with embedded video of the recently released Bin Laden tape. This item is enough to convince me that the tape is fake and the public is being bamboozled with yet another DoD psyop.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/9/9/61032/95401
Ray D. @ 48:
Interesting... and also, this is the first time I've actually seen an image of the video... all MSM references to it I've only seen in print or descriptions of it. For one thing, it's an obviously much younger Bin Laden... or either that he's been using a lot of Grecian Formula and conditioner in his beard to give it more volume. The video must've been taken at least ten years ago.
John Edwards' New Counter-Terrorism Plan
1. Establish the Counterterrorism and Intelligence Treaty Organization (CITO), an international and multilateral body to allow countries to share financial, police, customs and immigration intelligence.
2. Dole out 1,000 federal scholarships annually for language classes for students who pledge to pursue careers in intelligence and diplomacy.
3. Forge a Global Nuclear Compact to strengthen the Non-Proliferation Treaty.
4. Implement new safety and security standards at U.S.-based chemical plants vulnerable to attack.
5. Encourage American Muslim participation in public life by putting new resources towards engaging Muslim communities, empowering local Mosques to counter extremist ideas, and working with Muslim communities to identify and isolate threats.
6. Reduce reliance on oil from instable parts of the world, and ultimately achieve energy independence.
7. Establish a Marshall Corps, patterned after the military reserves, composed of at least 10,000 civilian experts to be deployed around the world on reconstruction, stabilization and humanitarian missions.
8. Withdraw from Iraq, redeploying troops in the Middle East into Quick Reaction Forces whose mission will be to stand by to prevent genocide, prevent regional spillover of civil war, and target Al Qaeda cells.
9. Summon NATO to work work with American Special Forces to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan.
10. Condition money packages to countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on their cooperation and help with the above.
You can listen to (some) of Edwards' speech here. (It gets cut off long before he finishes. A shame really, since there are 10 minutes of introductions, and he doesn't get into the actual plan until about 22:15.)
I'd be interested in knowing for sure which particular Democrat modeled their spine for Mr. Fish's excellent statement here.
Mr Fish is awful. I've seen better cartoons in a high school newspaper. Always obvious, always poorly drawn, never funny.
I don't know why the hell Harper's features him so prominently.
Che's Lounge @ 43:
Amen!
Maldoror @ 52:
This was the first cartoon of his I've seen, to my knowledge. You don't think it has a Gahan Wilson quality about it ... ?
Sad but true.
Nearly shat myself.
The Dems are going to have to start figuring out how to reach the people. Americans are ready to hear reasons to vote for Dems, but the Dems aren't getting the message out. And, they will never do so if they continue to let the Repugs and their media outlets frame the issues.
Example: Dems refusing to cut off funds for Iraq occupation/ surge in spite of overwelming public opposition to it. I'm sick of hearing my senator, Carl Levin, whine "I won't cut off the equipment our troops need," or some such nonsense.
If congress cuts off funding for Iraq, then Bush is simply obligated to pull out because he can't legally fund the war. It is Bush's responsibility, not that of congress, to supply the troops in the field. Now, I wouldn't put it past Bush's "scruples" to leave the troops there without funds and cut off their food supply and ammo and try to blame congress, but the Dems don't have to let him get away with it!
Meanwhile, on another aisle in the universe, the Total Corruption party continues its march into the history books:
From: "Chip Implants Linked to Animal Tumors"
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHIPPING_AMERICA_II?SITE=AP&SECTI...
California is working on a bill to make involuntary 'chipping' illegal. Thommy Thompson no doubt thinks that will make us 'unsafe.'
Capabilty Jones @ 57:
It is a fallacy that Congress can simply cut off funding for an illegal undeclared war being run by a conspiracy to defraud the United States, after a suspicious terrorist attack and every ounce of modern protofascism that can be poured down on our heads.
That's hilarious. Apparently you never heard Bushco threatening a major terrorist attack IF Democrats block his caravan of death in Iraq, or any of the other cherished 'Moments of Treason' during the last seven years of violent coup.
We're crawling back, and the Military Appropriations bill is coming back up in a week or two. You're going to want to pressure Levin at that time. Only those who aren't paying attention think we have a legal government at the moment.
News junkies: For an excellent read, after you go to PBS to watch the complete Bill Moyer's tape (16 min.) (seen below), read this article by William Pfaff (he's great) about the British pull out from Iraq/Basra:
http://www.williampfaff.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=251
From The New Yorker:
The politics of the man behind “24.”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/02/19/070219fa_fact_mayer
Victims of the WTC attack were protesting for a new investigation outside of times square where Geraldo was doing a live broadcast. Geraldo turned around and said, "those are the kind of people that would have gay sex in a public restroom." He then said that his staff could take them on.
Here is the video of him during the live broadcast:
Here is more information on the Geraldo Broadcast and the victims families' protest:
Karen @ 50:
Wait a minute... where's the "nuke them back into the Stone Age" part? The only thing close to that is #9, which can only be used for small skirmishes and covert operations. And what about all those no-bid contracts in Iraq? We just can't let that job security go to waste! And what's with this "diplomacy" thing he keeps talking about? What is that? [/snark]
Dems have to realize that the GOP doesn't have a spine either (ie: chickenhawks)... the difference is the GOP doesn't show it in public.
Diane Feinstein can kiss the divide of my fat hairy ass!
Daily Reading pt 1...
To Hold Bush Accountable for the Iraq War, the Democrats Should Listen to Richard Nixon. YOU MUST LISTEN TO THIS AUDIOCLIP. YOU SIMPLY MUST. Thanks to Thom Hartmann for Forwarding it to BuzzFlash.
- http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/282
Hundreds of glaciers on the Antarctic Peninsula are flowing faster, further adding to sea level rise according to new research published this week in the Journal of Geophysical Research. Climate warming, that is already causing Antarctic Peninsula increased summer snow melt and ice shelf retreat, is the most likely cause.
- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070605121037.htm
"Evidence that Bin Laden is still directing al-Qai'da operations, despite the best efforts of the US military and a $50m (£25m) price on his head, will be a blow to President George Bush who staked his reputation on winning the "war on terror"." That's what a British paper says. Unfortunately, the Dem leaders are unable or unwilling to make that case.
- http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article2941864.ece
Tomorrow as right wingers 'commemorate' 9/11 (as the day their evil driven stupid dreams of a right wing police state found a new Pearl Harbor).....I will presenting the Osama Clock....a running clock highlighting the failure, the lack of any interest in dismantling global terrorism...
Bush and Abu Risha: The White House is Buying Off Bandits and Thieves With Our Tax Dollars. They Won't Stay Bought for Long. - http://abuaardvark.typepad.com/abuaardvark/2007/09/bush-and-abu-ri.html
The pictures themselves speak volumes: look at Bush's $hit-eating grin and Abu Risha's detached contempt, and figure out which is the supplicant in this scenario.
What can you say....he's in his 'element' when meeting with Arab buddies....corruption loves corruption
The world left the US behind - http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/tim_watkin/2007/09/the_world_left_the_us_behind.html
EPIDEMIC: Another GOP gay scandal brews in murder-suicide case? - http://www.americablog.com/2007/09/another-gop-gay-scandal-brews-in-murd...
Why the Bush Administrations Knows That Lies Can be Made Into Perceived Truth - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/03/AR200709...
Daily Reading pt 2...
A California attorney who specializes in election law is seeking a Congressional investigation into whether the White House was involved in pushing a California ballot initiative to change the way the state allocates its electoral votes.
- http://www.contracostatimes.com/bayandstate/ci_6837615?nclick_check=1
I'm going to say yes....and I'm going to say it was Karl Rove's last 'official' policy action...
HOW IS THE GREAT ECONOMY DOING??? Worst crisis for 20 years, say banks - http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_...
The Federal Reserve is widely expected to begin the process of reversing the recent rise in global interest rates when its cuts the Fed Funds rate on September 18 in response to the market crisis and weak American jobs data.
The 'global economy'....
"The simple fact of the matter is that bin Laden has never looked better ... never appeared to be more youthful than in his most recent images. Bush on the other hand, ever since declaring the "war on 'terrah'," has never looked older - like a hundred years older. Which doesn't make sense, does it? After all, whenever Bush has needed it most, bin Laden and his boys delivered.
Yep, it's almost like the White House has been writing bin Laden's speeches for him. With life in the "war on 'terrah'" going that well, Bush should look a lot better than he does, don't you think?"
- http://www.progressivedailybeacon.com/more.php?id=1669
Tomgram: Launching Brand Petraeus - http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174834
The Petraeus Report, compiled by the White House...but brought to you, Congress...by Petraeus...he'll need some rehearsal time...the only thing Petraeus has to do with that 'report'...is that he'll be reciting what he read from Dick Cheney's National Review/Weekly Standard Liberty University grad students propaganda piece
Frank Rich: It will be all 9/11 all the time this week, as the White House yet again synchronizes its drumbeating for the Iraq war with the anniversary of an attack that had nothing to do with Iraq. Ignore that fog and focus instead on another date whose anniversary passed yesterday without notice: Sept. 8, 2002. What happened on that Sunday five years ago is the Rosetta Stone for the administration's latest scam.
- http://welcome-to-pottersville.blogspot.com/2007/09/frank-rich-as-iraqis...
A string of political setbacks has damaged Republicans' hopes of regaining the Senate majority next year and increased the likelihood Democrats might expand their razor-thin margin.
- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070909/ap_on_el_se/senate_campaigns;_ylt=An...
Ok...lets give the Dems....the 67 Votes.....lets put Franken in there...he won't be a patsy...and lets get a Democratic president that will END THE WAR (campaign promise)
And if all that happens and they still waffle...then its time...to vote all competition in 2010 primaries & 2012 primaries
Daily Reading pt 3...
Elect Presidents by the Majority of the National Popular Vote. Gore Beat Bush by More than 540,000 Votes in 2000. He Should be President. Oh Yeah, and the Election was Electorally Stolen from Him On Top of It.
- http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
Electoral College is as outdated as 'republican morality' (ie, self-hating homophobia, racism, patriarchal domination, etc...you know...'family values') TIME FOR AMERICA TO JOIN THE 21ST CENTURY
The Campaign Against Corporate Personhood Roles On - http://www.alternet.org/workplace/61737/
CORPORATIONS are entities, people....NO>>>>THEY ARE NEO-FEUDALISTIC PYRAMID SCHEMES...whose sole existence is wealth at all costs...that's not what life & humanity are about...
REPUBLICANS & RIGHT WINGNUTS ARE IDIOTS (PROSECUTION'S EXHIBIT AA): Spy Satellites Turned on the U.S. -- or US - http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3567635&page=1
Once upon a time...we had spy satellites pointed at other countries....you know...so we could actually get photographic evidence of espionage, hostile actions, etc.....but now...Republicans are using it to add fuel to their fear machine
Yep....wow....what a tough choice for '08.....a Democratic president or a self proclaimed 'lazy' actor that gets limosine chaffeur service to his fire truck red pickup for 'public appearances'....whew...don't know what I'm going to do....
REAL MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: Texas Co. Signs Iraq Oil Deal With Kurds. You Mean There is Money to be Made in Iraqi Oil! Golly, Gee! - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/09/business/main3244774.shtml
The question isn't how many bush crime family members will be getting jobs with these companies...the question is who won't be getting jobs with these Big Oil Co.s?
Bin Laden likely lives in comfy safehouse, intel experts say - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/09/09/2007-09-09_bin_lade...
"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him. I repeat what I said...uh...I'm truly not concerned about him" - GWBush on Bin Laden 3-13-02 3 months later (w/shocked Porter Goss) "Uh...we spend parts of every day, uh...looking for Osama Bin Laden" - GWBush with his handpicked unqualified CIA lapdog
See the Video...evidence...THIS IS AN ALL TIMER: http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2005/03/porter_goss_non_1.html
Fred Thompson's Libyan Legal Connection - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/us/politics/09thompson.html?_r=1&hp&or...
Thompson Linked to Work for Libyans....the Case....defense of libyan intelligence officials charged in terrorist bombing of Pan Am Flight 103
As Brazil’s Rain Forest Burns Down, Planet Heats Up - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/19533.html
Evil GOP Bastard of the Month: Mine Safety & Health Administrator & Poster Boy for Bush Anti-Regulation Government Regulatory Appointees Richard Stickler - http://www.evilgopbastards.com/
Profit....AT ANY COST...REPUBLICAN MANTRA
I wish I could give the Democrats credit for being cowards but I've decided they _like_ the war and they _like_ Bush. It isn't just that they won't cut off the war funding and they won't impeach. They don't even have a vision and ideology of their own to offer. It's all one party. It's all a bad joke.
I just saw this headline on yahoo.com: Study suggests that the brain function of liberals and conservatives differs and I have to say I agree, that Liberal Brains are working for a better world while conservative brains are not working at all.
Don't go getting all disappointed when they do what they have been doing for the last 6 years, nothing.
I am convinced they are working WITH the NeoCons for some unknown reason.
Be it blackmail, triangulating or plain old miserable leadership the root cause does not matter. What does matter is that they will roll over and let GW stick it back in again.
And they won't even complain while he does them yet again.
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones,
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones,
Dem bones, dem bones, democrat backbones...
I hear the word of the Lord!
how tiring is the BS "no backbone" meme...i really can't listen to it anymore. it's the most ridiculous excuse and it wreaks of propaganda- by which i mean, this is what they want us to think, that this is why they're not getting anything done (exempli gratis, ending the occupation, reversing the patriot act and the military commissions act, restoring habeas corpus, etcetera).
they were sweepingly elected- they have nothing to fear, other than a cut in pay. they are all corporatist swine, just like their counterparts. they conveniently play to the left side, when the reality is there are few who care to make the difference.
sorry for my extreme pessimism. enough is enough already. the bush cabal's "term" is almost up, and we're sitting with our thumbs up our arses really believing that there's nothing they can do. I. DON'T. BUY IT. not anymore.
i b'lieve dem bones are me
some say we're born into the grave
i feel so alone
gonna end up a big ol pile of dem bones
dust rise right on over my time
empty fossil of the new scene
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
IMPEACH!!!
"to appear to be weak and powerless is better than not receiving a paycheck." ~some dude sitting on the stoop waiting for change (by which i mean, the jingly jangly kind)...
I've learned to like being let down now! Yah please disappoint me again!
er, reeks, not wreaks @ 70...
As a life-long Democrat, I must say the Democrats don't just resemble this cartoon; it is a dead ringer for them.
http://www.cta.org/issues/esea/__ESEA_NCLB+Overview.htm
another reason i don't believe in dems anymore. why aren't they listening to teachers??? i know several teachers and i can not say i know a SINGLE teacher who supports NCLB. NOT ONE. even teachers who voted to elect this cabal do not like NCLB.
i'm really starting to believe all the tin-foilesque "dumbing down the populace" stuff...NCLB makes me a believer.
This bunch of democrats does not have the courage (cojones) to take on the republicans on Iraq or any other issue. They are pussies!. We, the progressive people cannot stand by anymore and see this happening to our country. We need to elect people with enough guts to do what it takes. I'm tired of the democrats just taking about what they would like to do! Time for a change!!!!!!!!!!
Computer expert that has been previously used to evaluate Al-Qaeda Tapes says the new tape is completely fake.
His exact words: I strongly believe that Bin Laden is dead.
He has been praised in Wired magazine for his work.
Iraq And Brain Injuries
...............and it's made of jello
Dr. Who @ 34:
Bingo!
Dr. Who @ 34:
well said!
kucinich 08
At first I laughed.
But then I cried.
geez: howcome we're all so down on the Democrats... they may have majorities in the houses of congress but that's not enough to enforce their will: it takes 60 votes in the Senate to overcome the block of Republicans there who can filibuster and thus block any legislation -- without those 60 votes we're just not able to pass the necessary legislation much less overcome a presidential veto (which requires 2/3 in both houses)... we need a new president and a bigger majority in the congress if we're going to overcome the damage that's been done by the Reeps in the past decade and running down the Dems ourselves just won't do it...
It typifies them, doesn't it?
They have NO clue what a backbone might be!
all arguments pertaining to the veto-proof majority are false. with the majority, the dems could be re-sending boosh the same bills until he signs. they are indeed SPINELESS
Did anyone hear about the young McDonald's employee who was charged with 'misdemeanor reckless conduct' because she served an 'oversalted' hamburger to a police officer?
It seems she spilled salt on the burger, asked her supervisor and a co-worker what to do and they told her to "thump" it off and serve it. She did. The officer bought it, ate ALL of it and came back to the restaurant and complained to the manager that it made him sick. Then he took her outside for 'questioning' after which he arrested her.
She has been released on $1,000 bail.
...abuse of power anyone?
ABWolfe @ 85:
From what I understand, the 60-votes business isn't entirely accurate.
ABWolfe @ 85:
Oh noes! Not a filibuster! How will we ever win when they can filibuster. I mean, think how much it would hurt the Dems if the Repubs were to spend day, even weeks, blathering nosensically about why the war needs to continue! Why, I dare say if the Democrats stood up to the minority in Congress, it could spell... the end... of democracy as we know it! OMG!
Isome @ 87:
Um, no. She's a black woman, and therefore she obviously insulted the officer intentionally, hoping to poison him. That's what black people do, when they're not getting coked up and raping white women! Can I get a rebel yell!?!? How about some serious outrage?!?! Nothing? I guess we can just wait till the next race riot (sectarian civil unrest, to all you outsiders) to make more civil rights progress.
FilthyHarry @ 7:
Ditto.
And dont forget , as has been made clear in the last 1yr, the only diffrence between Dem's and RepubliNazis, is that SOME Dems dont hate gay ppl.
Thats it.
Isome @ 87:
why dont we give em a call????
Union City Police
(770) 964-1333
No one will ever find a backbone until they relegalize the market for anatomical parts of the homeless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM_sMM_tvX8
That's nice... they've spotted one... Let me know when they actually catch and insert one of these backbone thingys..................That might actually constitute real news..JD
Corporate hegemony is the framework within which Bushco has co-opted our Democracy. I see a fine tension developing, even on the level of each citizen of this great nation: do we continue to chase the carrot (ANYONE can get rich in America!) or do we recognize that an obsessive preoccupation with getting wealthy legitimizes and sustains those who would destroy us? Last year, corporate CEOs made more than 400 times what their least paid employees made--see anything wrong with this picture?
The Dems are playing the same get rich game as the Republicans. I can see them doing as much as they can to placate their constituency while not actually jeopardizing their sources of wealth. It's sickening. And, it's truly spineless.
We are in for some devilishly hard times, beyond anything we've ever gone through before. It will certainly test us. I remain hopeful that We The People will prevail.
joe, dr. who, battleax...
the only true Americans running and not under the CFR thumb are Dr. Ron Paul, Kucinich, and Gravel.
Dr. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are friends. It would be a testament to the spirit of the true American patriot if that was the battle for the white house. That competition would truly envigorate my will and I support both of them as they continue to speak truth to powerful elites.
SonOfLiberty @ 89:
I guess my thought is: what does 'standing up to the minority' look like?... it won't be passing legislation; perhaps it might be not appropriating money for the military but, practically, that's tough since it'll actually wind up hurting our military personnell and although people generally don't want to be in Iraq anymore, they don't want to hurt our service people, either; actually forcing a filibuster, while generating much republican blather, doesn't do much real work except make the senate look more incompetant than it already does; after that, I'm stumped -- what are the other options? what does 'standing up to the minority" look like?
has some suggestions for slapping the Democrats around until they grow a spine. (Not for the faint of heart but hilarious.)
Oops: this blog: http://typingincaps.blogspot.com/
Democrats with a spine? Fat chance.
I can think of a few. Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Howard Dean... Front runners all. Yeah, right.
We have no one to blame for this mess but ourselves. If Americans weren't so stupid, we'd never have been stuck with this band of criminals.
The same thing can be said for Bush I, and Reagan, and Nixon. It's all our own damn fault.
me@101;
Bottom line, after all the finger pointing and blaming is done...
You are right... We've done this to ourselves...... The 64 dollar trick question... Can we the people undo this mess now?. Or have we boxed ourselves into a corner we can't get out of because we vested these miscreants with more power then they know how to manage properly........ I don't know, that's a big reason why this election is so important for the future of America....JD
The Democrats answer to Karl Rove?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTaj3rLPd68
ABWolfe @ 98:
First, I don't buy the argument that cutting off funding will hurt our military personnel. Even with all the funding appropriated, the troops are nevertheless denied the equipment, training and everything else they require, because the band of criminals in charge squander, lose or pilfer the money. Frankly, to give them any more money is just plain irresponsible. Moreover, this administration can get money wherever it wants: borrow it on the country's no-limit credit card, get it from private entities, engage in illegal activities, etc.
As for the filibuster, you're correct that the Republicans have filibustered everything in the Senate. But forcing an actual, rather than the "gentlemen's" or "virtual" filibuster that's happens right now, wouldn't necessarily make the Senate look more incompetent. What Reid did a while back wasn't a real filibuster. Forcing them to stay in DC for 24 hours is stupid. They have a large enough majority that 24 hours is nothing. They just work in shifts to keep talking. A real filibuster would be indefinite. And the Democrats shouldn't do any talking except to the media in order to drive a narrative. They should literally just sit there until the Republicans get sick of yammering. Even if it literally takes months. They will want to go home eventually. They will get tired. And all Reid should say is, "Sure, whenever you wanna hold a vote, you fuckers can go home. Until you let us vote, though, you're all stuck here reading your recipes in shifts and commenting on political theater."
That's the narrative they should force. But see, that's what the Democrats are so inept at doing. True, it's difficult when you don't have your own propaganda networks like FUX News doing your bidding on the airwaves, but the real reason the Democrats are perceived as spineless is that they're followers instead of leaders. They do fear looking incompetent if the polls suggest that's how they'll look. They do fear that cutting off funding will make them look bad if the polls suggest it. So they're reactive instead of proactive, and thus appear spineless.
They simply haven't learned how to play to the media so that they can actually lead the narrative and persuade people that they're doing the right thing. If they could friggen figure out how to do that, their backbones just might begin to grow. And standing up to the minority wouldn't be so hard. But they're bad politicians. To whatever extent they're still on the side of the people, to whatever extent they are not in the pockets of their lobbyists, donors and corporations, their best intentions are mitigated entirely by the fact that they're lousy politicians.
Somebody call Dennis K. He has a backbone!
This just in: (AP) Bill Kristol named head of the Democratic National Committee.
Farfetched? ..................... nah
ABWolfe @ 85:
Wrong, it only take 40 votes to BLOCK anything.
Time for them to stop talking of winning and start blocking everything the administration wants.
And easy task and they know it.
They just don't want to.
JohnnyBravo @ 105:
Except when it comes to doing ANYTHING about a stolen presidential election in the city he mayored in 2004.
Then he says and does BUPKISS.
PopeTodd @ 107:
You're talking about the Senate, and guess what?
• We don't have 40 votes in the Senate. We have about 30.
If you want to know why 20 Senate Dems vote with Bush, you will have to ask THE STATES THAT ELECTED THEM. Maybe some of those Senators are in office because of the vote-fraud, but to take the CA example, Feinstein flew through her 2006 reelection, and there wasn't an alternative on the ballot.
Blaming 'the Democrats' for the DINO Senators they send to the Senate, and blaming Leader Reid for what he has to work with, are CANARDS.
But monolithic disaffilated leftists with ZERO seats know exactly what the Leader ought to do, immediately, by his own fiat. Shut down the Senate with his 30 loyal caucus members! Oh wait -- it takes FORTY? But we only have 30.
Somebody get Dr. Feelgood on the phone -- our scapegoat is bleeding from friendly fire.
Karen @ 104:
You are still unable to count the votes. You, like many others, take the label as a guarantee. Apparently you have missed the meaning of DINO entirely.
Leader Reid does NOT have enough votes to fillibuster. Only people who haven't been following the vote counts thinks he does.
Don't pretend your scapegoat deserves his slaughter. You just need someone convenient to blame.
Ysbaddaden@103;
Peter Cushing???? Heck, I always thought it was James Carvelle..........huh, thanks for the update YS....heheh JD
P.S.... I guess either one is about as effective as the other now as far as that pitbull politicing stuff goes..... JD
ysbaddaden @ 103:
The Democrats have no answer to Karl Rove.
The Dems' answer to Karl Rove: 20 years to life!
Paul in LA @ 110:
I'm unable to count votes? Reid doesn't have the votes to filibuster? I need someone convenient to blame?
Let me put this in as friendly a manner as I can: What are you talking about? You're such a hostile character on these blogs. Is that from living in LA so long? Mwah! Kisses. ;)
First, I'm not scapegoating anyone. And I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just observing.
Secondly, um, what exactly do you mean that Reid doesn't have enough votes to filibuster? Do you remember last year? We kinda won the election. We're in the majority now. The majority doesn't filibuster. The minority does. So, it's not a matter of Reid gathering votes in order to filibuster. It's a matter of Reid forcing the Republicans to do an actual, rather than virtual, filibuster. The latter is what they've been doing, and why they've been able to scuttle every potentially decent action the Democrats have tried to take in the Senate.
See, ABWolfe got it right. They can't command 60 votes, so when the Republican minority says, we're gonna filibuster, well, that's that. 'Cept, but for the one 24-hour run of it, Reid hasn't forced them to do an actual filibuster. They've just done the now-traditional gentlemen's filibuster. The minority informs the majority that it intends to filibuster, and if the majority can't gather the 60 votes to end "debate," the filibuster is considered successful. And the Republicans have been doing it for EVERYTHING. They're the obstructionists the media constantly portray the Democrats as.
Now, what the Democrats could do, is tell the Republicans that if they do intend to filibuster, they'll have to do it old-style. None of this, "you don't have the 60 votes to end debate so give up" nonsense. Tell them that they're actually going to have to stand there and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. When they finally get tired of staying in the Senate for weeks on end, tell them, "Hey, you wanna go home? Let us vote."
The DINOs in the Senate don't figure into that scenario. If the DINOs have already sided with the Republicans on an issue such that there is a de facto Republican majority vote, there's no need for a filibuster in the first place. A filibuster would mark a battle of wills and stamina when the Democrats already know they have the 51 votes they need on an issue. That's the only time the Republicans would filibuster. And those 51 could just wait them out. Make them stay there as long as it friggen takes, reading their recipes and yammering on.
So, kindly do not tell me I can't count or that I'm scapegoating. I'm suggesting a course of action for them. I've worked in this game professionally, on local campaigns, in Sacramento and in DC. If you want my opinion on Reid, I actually think he's outperformed my expectations. He has surprised me with his political instincts and plays.
Ok? (Probably not . . . we've gone through this before, you and I. I won't expect civility.)
Paul in LA @ 109:
Wrong, 40 votes abstained are all thats needed to filibuster until the cows come home.
Don't be disingenuous. That is a block.
Paul in LA, you are just one of the MANY trolls out in force today.
It is unfortunate that you are so typical, otherwise you might be amusing.
PopeTodd @ 116:
PopeTodd @ 115:
Heh, let's be fair. First, Paul in LA is not a troll. From what I can tell, he's actually a rather impassioned Democrat, only, in my opinion, his emotions often get the better of him when arguing on this blog.
Secondly, what he's trying to explain is that there are so many Democrats in the Senate right now who, for whatever sinister reasons, continue to enable the White House and otherwise side with Republicans on important issues. His point is that there are so many of them that bona fide Democrats are in a de facto minority, such that Reid can't get very much done no matter what.
Now, that has nothing to do with situations in which the Democrats are banding together, and the Republicans threaten a filibuster, nor does it justify his hostile stance towards those of us he so unaffectionately calls "monolithic, disaffiliated leftists" when we suggest a course of action. But, I have to admit, it's fun picturing his head turning red, then purple, and then exploding as he types.
Don't forget the throbbing veins!
Nothing funnier than a good throbbing forehead vein before the ol head pops off! ;)
PopeTodd @ 119:
I am not a troll; I am a protester, and a Democrat. Tomorrow, while you are sitting around badmouthing our good Democrats for the actions of the bad, I will be in the streets, yelling through my bullhorn about the injustices and criminal actions of BUSHCO -- as in, you know, the actual enemy here.
And, based on your false contextualization, YOU will be the troll.
PopeTodd @ 118:
And we have THIRTY.
You --think-- based on the party affiliations that we have 40, but we don't. EVERY important vote in the last six years has proven that. We actually have only about 25 we can count on, but 30 on a good day, and maybe on some issues, a few more.
Your CLAIM that we can fillibuster is your basis for bashing the Leader -- when it is not his fault, it is those states who continue to elect DINOs. And, California is just as guilty, with Feinstein -- thankfully we have Boxer who counterbalances, but if you think Feinstein will support a fillibuster, you are just making shit up. And she isn't even the worst.
arroyo @ 115:
The Democrats drove Karl Rove from his office in our government. And, if people would fight for it, we need SPECIAL PROSECUTORS to put him in prison where he belongs.
But, instead, the failure to count the votes, and the ODD, disaffiliated practice of bashing the Dems at the START of the Fall season -- as counterproductive a behavior as can be imagined.
Then again, when you have ZERO seats in gov't, you attack the Democrats because the Republicans couldn't care less about what you think.
Karen @ 117:
Karen @ 120:
H'yeah, my emotions. Meanwhile, YOUR emotions drive you to attack our Congress in the first days of the Fall season.
What's your program for change? Bash the leadership?
Wow, that's really working great. Since GSM Cindy Sheehan doesn't want to serve in the Congress, and Chairman Conyers is not going to allow people to sit-in in his office, and Leader Reid doesn't have the votes -- regardless of what strategies you think he has available -- the effect of these disaffiliated critiques is NOTHING. You have done nothing to move the equation forward. So you bash instead, because YOUR emotions got the better of you several years ago.
Site Monitor: Let's stop this flame war before it begins. Please limit your comments to the topic and not other posters. Paul, you have a habit of getting up in people's faces. It stops the discussion. Everyone, please try to keep your posts civil.
Not that he needs my support, but I agree with most of what Paul in LA says. The problem is not DINO's exactly, it's that much of the Democratic party does not stand for what some commentors want. Even under the Bush administration, "progressives" are a small minority of the populace. Many of the conservative Democrats accurately represent the majority views of their constituents. You know ... something the are supposed to do.
I appreciate the fact that a lot of commentors don't like the current administration. Neither do I. However, there is exactly one credible opposition to the GOP and that's the Democrats. Attacking the Democrats because the left wing of the Democratic party is not large enough to shut down the government is worse than pointless - it actually helps the Republicans.
Karen you are absolutely right that Paul in LA is not a troll. Consider the length and seriousness of his posts. I am so tired of people trying to dismiss the views of those they disagree with by calling the them "Koolaid drinkers" or trolls. Attacking the messenger and not responding to the message is in the finest traditions of the GOP.
P.S. God does this cartoon offend me. Why not just type "brought to you by the GOP" underneath it.
Bob Roberts @ 128:
Because it would be like a Republic party member to blame the Dem's own lack of courage and apparent inability to do the bidding of their constituents on someone else.
They are to blame for their own 'lack of spine.'
Paul in LA @ 126:
Not only is your comment an ad hominem fallacy, but it's false. I did not attack our Congress in the first days of the Fall season. On the contrary. I actually engaged in some rather lively advocacy in its favor. I later soured on some of Congress' actions, but certainly not in the first days.
I was explaining a strategy to prevent successful filibusters, for when the Republicans obstruct the will of a solid Democratic majority (when one exists). There is a way to do it, and they made a quasi-attempt at it earlier this year. C&L covered it, quoting an article in its cover post that read,
I realize that we don't have the votes to break a filibuster, Paul. But when the Democrats are united, and we have a majority vote in our favor, we can force the Republicans to speak until they drop. If they blink first -- if they do drop -- we get the vote they are obstructing. If you want to argue about the wisdom of this strategy, I'm happy to, but I would appreciate it if you didn't simply insult me.
Oh, mine?
• I work with organizations to bring about change in the electoral system, and give speeches helping to educate people on electoral reform;
• I consult on Democratic campaigns for offices on all levels of government in every election cycle, and will do so in '08 to help increase our majorities in both federal houses;
• I write scholarly papers and other articles to influence Constitutional interpretation of the 9th and 14th Amendments in order to better protect our civil liberties as we proceed with the Roberts Court;
• I encourage progressives and libertarians to work together, despite their differences, in order to marginalize authoritarian elements like the Bushes and the Christian Right;
• There's that whole filibuster strategy I mentioned;
and yes, when I have time, I do some blogging, in which I'll criticize even the leaders I support if I think it appropriate.
Why? What do you do?
Paul in LA @ 122:
I see.
I had hopes the democraps would do something. No, I knew they would. But alas I was wrong. I believe they are going to continue down the same path as the repukes even after bush is gone. There is no difference in the two. Neither party listens to the American citizens. Just look at the dems on immigration.
We need to make a bold statement. We need to vote all independant no matter what. If your a dem or republican voter you must realize that both parties are the same. So if you vote independant and people in one of the above mentioned parties gets elected, there will be no change anyway whether your a hawk, chickenawk, dove or whatever. But if we do manage to get some independants in there it will send a powerful signal. Plus, we will get people (other than Lieberman) that are willing to make a change.
WE AVE TO TAKE A CHANCE AND ROLL THE DICE SOMETIMES. Like I said we got nothing to lose and everything to gain if we win. VOTE INDEPENDANT
Paul in LA @ 122:
Nope, I'll be at work supporting my family and getting together the money to bail on this shit hole.
If you think the Dems are any different at this point you are a delusional idiot. Keep drinking, the KoolAid, I'll drink a beer for you when I get to Europe.
Paul in LA @ 123:
If you think ANY of them aren't in on the joke you are making shit up.
Karen @ 130:
"Not only is your comment an ad hominem fallacy, but it's false. I did not attack our Congress in the first days of the Fall season. On the contrary. I actually engaged in some rather lively advocacy in its favor. I later soured on some of Congress' actions, but certainly not in the first days."
THIS Fall season is what I was refering to. And you were engaging in ad hominem when you suggested that my 'emotions' were getting the better of me. On the contrary, I remain STEAMING, FOOT-STAMPING HOT about what has been and is being done to my country and the world, by BASTARDS who deserve to hang from the neck until dead after their Nuremberg trials.
"I realize that we don't have the votes to break a filibuster, Paul. But when the Democrats are united, and we have a majority vote in our favor,"
We don't have that kind of support for breaking filibusters. We SPECIFICALLY don't have that kind of support, which Reid proved in the 24 hour speech-a-thon, which ultimately failed because there weren't enough votes.
"If you want to argue about the wisdom of this strategy, I'm happy to, but I would appreciate it if you didn't simply insult me."
You are not necessarily the problem, Karen, but if you would read this comments thread, you will find MANY insulting attacks on the Democratic party which are false, and counterproductive. And it is fairly clear that backseat driving the leadership is an immense waste of time unless it comes to challenging those who vote improperly to vote properly.
There have been many suggestions of archaic and arcane procedures which might be used. And the bashing of the leadership with these novel programs has simply played into Republican (and disaffiliated leftist)hands.
As for 'changing the electoral system' -- I hope you support a constitutional amendment to overtly establish our right to vote in all elections appropriate to our locality.
http://www.house.gov/jackson/VotingRightsFAQ.htm
PopeTodd @ 132:
[Deleted. Tone it down; keep it civil. Don't call posters names when they chose a different view than yours.-Sitemonitor]
Karen @ 130:
I see.
That's what I'm doing TOMORROW. What are YOU doing TOMORROW?
I have done a lot of other work in politics, but yeah, I have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours facing off on cops and rightwingers, for you and the rest of my fine-feathered fellow citizens. Go ahead and bash the protest, too -- I'm in good company.
Paul in LA @ 134:
This fall season? To my knowledge, this fall season hasn't started yet.
Tell me the irony of that sentence isn't lost on you, Paul, because it is quite funny. :)
And actually, in context, my statement per your emotions marked a minor qualification to my defense of you. Someone called you a troll. I said that you were not, but that, in my opinion, your emotions sometimes got the better of you when you argued on this blog. That's not an ad hominem fallacy. You defended yourself not by addressing the way in which you address people here (for which even the site monitor criticized you), but by telling me that my emotions got the better of me as well. That is an ad hominem fallacy.
It shows. Now, don't misunderstand me; you should be that angry. We all should, and many of us are. But your anger permeates your discourse here counterproductively -- ironically, in exactly the manner you deride when it results in the "disaffiliated's" attacking the Democratic leadership.
To be sure, a filibuster is a staring contest, and the Democrats have to be willing to stick it out as well. Thing is, they have it easier, since they're in the majority. As far as I know, Reid and Durbin already established that the debate would last 24 hours, not indefinitely. Kindly correct me if I am misinformed (emphasis on kindly). That's not a real filibuster. It's just an extended version of the gentlemen's filibuster.
Now, I am somewhat trepid about asking what I am about to ask. Please don't take this the wrong way. It is not intended as an insult. But, do you understand how a filibuster works? I'm guessing that you do, but I'm wondering whether somehow our communication is breaking down given the assumptions we're making. I only ask you to explain the process of a filibuster in order to make sure we're on the same page. Could you do that?
Thanks?
Fair enough. You can argue just that without telling people like me that we do nothing and can't count.
The filibuster is not an archaic procedure. It preserves the rights of the minority, and enables the minority to have a genuine say in the legislative process in the Senate. However, the Republicans have made it their goal not to give the Democratic majority ANY victories, so they simply threaten to filibuster everything for which there is already majority approval. That's not just on the war or the appropriations; it's on EVERYTHING. School lunches, minimum wage raise, maternity and paternity and a host of other lesser-known measures for which the Democrats all support. The Republicans simply say, "We're filibustering;" the Democrats call a cloture vote on which they can't get 60, and everyone goes home.
That is but one of so many things I would do. I've written extensively on the subject. In fact, I'd go further. I believe that legislative power is derived from the consent of the governed, and that the right to vote is every person's portion of the people's sovereign power. I believe that no law is legitimate unless people who are "governed" had a chance to "consent" to their representation by people who would exercise legislative power on their behalf.
Thus, my version of the amendment would not merely declare the right to vote in elections appropriate to respective localities. It would declare the right of every person to consensually transfer her portion of legislative power to a representative of one's choice on any legislative body that will pass laws by which she will be governed.
I apologize if that was too boorishly academic. In short, I would not guarantee simply the right to vote -- I would guarantee the right to be represented! Represented by a lawmaker to whose representation you consent! It's straight from the Delcaration of Independence.
Want my book on the subject? Happy to send it to ya. ;)
Paul in LA @ 135:
Fine, sorry. Calling me a 'delusional idiot' is clearly not name-calling.
For the record, I am not a delusional idiot. I am also not a coward, fleeing to a foreign country because some bastards came to take mine away, expecting that we would just do what he's do, and RUN. Easier that way, so long as you never need to look in the mirror.
Karen @ 137:This fall season? To my knowledge, this fall season hasn't started yet."
Are you being intentionally dense? This Fall session of Congress, which rather like the school year, is called 'Fall' even though it isn't 'Fall' yet. You're bashing the party leadership at the start of the Fall session. From now until Thanksgiving, they are going to be doing quite a few important things. So naturally it's wonderful to have the parents telling the children that they're fuckups. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Just what exactly do you get out of bashing the leadership? Does it improve their functioning? Or is it just frustration and scapegoating?
"Someone called you a troll. I said that you were not, but that, in my opinion, your emotions sometimes got the better of you when you argued on this blog. That's not an ad hominem fallacy."
It clearly is. You are making a diagnosis of my state, rather than addressing the argument. For the record, I am white hot pissed off, and I can stay this way for YEARS. Apparently I have some inborn feeling of injustice that a lot of others don't have wired up.
It shows. Now, don't misunderstand me; you should be that angry. We all should, and many of us are. But your anger permeates your discourse here counterproductively"
Nonsense. If you will regard this thread, you will find several extremely offensive slanders of good officials, a good party, and a good Congress. But you act like that's not provocatory. Even you, this well-known expert in politics with books and all, spend WAY too much time bashing for someone who wants to talk about counterproductivity. You're an expert in it.
"To be sure, a filibuster is a staring contest, and the Democrats have to be willing to stick it out as well. Thing is, they have it easier, since they're in the majority. As far as I know, Reid and Durbin already established that the debate would last 24 hours, not indefinitely."
Of course. It was a demonstration, limited and pointed. And it was somewhat effective. But given the lack of support by those Bushco-voting DINO Senators, that test demonstrated the unfeasibility of that kind of tactic.
"I only ask you to explain the process of a filibuster in order to make sure we're on the same page. Could you do that?"
The definition of the filibuster is moot. I note your effort to shift it to that topic, but the topic is spine and you are suggesting that forcing the Republicans to filibuster would be the cordate approach you would take. However, there is no way you can understand the equation from the Leader's standpoint. He does not simply stand outside the politics of the Senate, and he certainly cannot stand outside the threat-based intimidation tactics of this illegal Executive. The Congress is governing its way out of this coup, and I hope they succeed under our leadership. Because these bastards want to collapse the constitution -- they have been quite brazen about it.
Unlike you, I give the Dem leadership very high marks for withstanding the incredible cruelty of this era of betrayal by the entire Republican party in Congress, and the Republican-run major media. That's something you apparently don't have in your equation -- you just act like it's a wikipedia article on how to govern out of a coup.
""You are not necessarily the problem, Karen,""
"Thanks?"
Well, really, you bash the Dems and I don't understand that strategy, so you may well be a part of the problem. You're losing votes for us, you know that don't you?
"Fair enough. You can argue just that without telling people like me that we do nothing and can't count."
What exactly was your snipe about the protest tomorrow, then? There you were telling people like me that we do nothing and don't count. On the contrary. And anyhow, the relative value of th efforts of any GOOD-WILLED PERSON in this kind of disaster is not at issue.
But there are ill-willed people abundantly around us, with people who are talking about fleeing the country, while bashing my party on their cowardly way out the door -- or so they say. Not to defend what one loves is not to be an American. PERIOD.
Karen @ 137:
Yeah, I understand all that. The issue is that the caucus will not stand for the filibuster. They will not, they cannot be ordered to, they won't cooperate. We do NOT have enough Senators who ARE willing to put the screws to the Republicans. That's part of what Leader Reid demonstrated in that all-nighter. The will is simply not there, and that's really not surprising, given that a lot of those DINO Senators have voted along with Bushco on those filibuster issues.
Our disagreement is not on the factual basis of the filibuster. It is on the tactic of bashing the Dem leadership because of theories about what they should be doing that INHERENTLY lack the Leader's perspective. If the purpose was to try to get the Leader to do it, then BASHING him would not the reliable technique. It's rather like going into the HJC Chairman's office and throwing a tantrum. Or like stunt-running against Speaker Pelosi in her district. These are hairbrained schemes, which show disrespect, quite apart from the intended passionate message.
It's a method of emotionalism, this bashing. I admit I'm emotional -- I'm going screaming into the streets tomorrow, and I already know that. We're covered in blood. But the target of protest is a complacent society. I would far more rather urge the people on to justice, than communicate my disrespect for the leadership in the effort to supposedly influence them, based on the theory that you feel the failure more than they do. You're not going to find anyone more angry about the Iraq invasion than Nancy Pelosi. She is nuts pissed off about it, and disrespecting her or Conyers in particular on that subject is the height of absurdity.
And Karen, one final point, if you're still reading.
This Congress goes on for TWO YEARS.
Treat the leadership without respect now, one quarter of the way in, and you can draw the curve for the rest. And that's the telling thing, it seems to me, about the approach of this kind of bashing. It's the start, but there is no excitement for the starting, no congratulations, no huzzahs and let's try agains. No, it's 'you spineless fools.'
It's Nine-eleven, the nadir of the neocon conspiracy. I don't blame the Democratic leadership -- I BLAME BUSH.
IMO, the Spineless Democrats are NOT representing their constituents' interests. Instead, they are republican moles, pretending to be Democrats so that they can get elected, while their actual goal is to push the republican agenda.
That is the reason I despise them, and will contribute money toward their defeat in the primaries.
Frankly, I'd rather have an "out" repub than a closet repub, because the out repub will be easier to defeat in the following election.
Paul in LA,
You are truly one of the silliest people here.
You have no sense of humor, and can't tell when I'm kidding, and can't tell when I'm just intentionally getting your goat and laughingly awaiting your predictable response; you don't know what an ad hominem fallacy is, but your response to those who call you out on one is to tell them that they engage in it too; you overestimate the influence of people expressing their opinions on blog posts, as though by commenting on C&L alone we're reaching the Democratic leadership; in your apologia for every action the Democratic leadership takes, you attribute devious and immature motives to those who would criticize them;
and
Your likely response (in your head, at least . . . my saying this will be a self negating prophesy) will be to tell me that it is actually I who have no sense of humor; that I am the one who doesn't understand ad hominem fallacies; that you really do know the motives of people who
criticizebash the leadership; that apologia is not the right word, when what we do is bash; and that hell yes, you're mad, while only fools like me aren't mad at the right people.Site Monitor: I realize that this post was entirely about Paul in LA himself. Sorry. I hearby pledge not to engage him any more. At all. It's not worth it. I'll just ingore him.
Karen @ 143:
You ever hear of smilies? It isn't my invention not to be able to magically tell when you are kidding.
I don't get the rest of your comment at all. You really think I think blog comments reach the Dem leadership, you have more than a few nuts missing from your cream pie.
Fuck these pussy democrats. They are just as accountable for their actions as the right, yet, just like their counterparts it looks like they'll get away with feeding us the similar bullshit stories why this war can't end, only this time it's under the guise of their hands being tied without a powerful majority. The truth is they don't give two shits about the common person. They are small self center asses concerned only with holding power and personally benefiting from their positions. The question that seems more pertinent at this point is: how much longer can the American people take the onslaught of BULLSHIT LIES coming from every direction? I have no time to process it all...to be continued, more shit to come down the pipe soon. Enjoy!
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