Confusion still reigns on Iraq, 9/11
By Steve Benen Wednesday Sep 12, 2007 12:30pmSix years after the 9/11 terror attacks on the U.S., it seems the media still have some educational work to do. A new CBS/New York Times poll reveals that even today, 1 in 3 Americans believe that “Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11th, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.”
This notion was thoroughly debunked by official sources, including those in the White House, years ago, but the myth endures. Polls have shown that belief in this untruth was a prime component in support for the attack on Iraq.
There is, of course, a partisan difference. Dems are the least likely to get this wrong, and Republicans are the most likely to get this wrong. How bad is it? A whopping 40% of Republicans, six years after the attacks, still believe Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. So, for every five Republicans you meet, on average, two of them are confused about this basic fact.
People, of course, have to take responsibility for keeping up with reality, but it doesn't help when Freedom's Watch keeps deceiving people with mendacious ads.
Login or Register to post comments.
bite this boner
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tMACzBomDK4
"A whopping 40% of Republicans, six years after the attacks, still believe Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11."
What percentage of Republicans live in trailer parks and sleep with their cousins?
Here's an article that explains why it is so difficult to change someone's mind about their beliefs even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are wrong:
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/09/mythbusters-are-odds-stacked...
"So, for every five Republicans you meet, on average, two of them are confused about this basic fact."
"confused"?
No, not "confused". Try stupid, credulous, gullible. Try persistently, willfully ignorant. Try fucking deluded.
Those 40 percent of Repubs aren't "confused." They are merely "creating their own reality." Pathetic.
Eh, those brown people are all the same.
I no longer have sympathy for those people who believe these lies after all this time. The ones that aren't stupid are propagandists.
the reason we have bush as president, is the same reason this country is doomed to
mediocrity.
the IQ of the average american is lower than 90.
if americans can not find their own country on a map, how can you expect them
to think.
dadams @ 8:
Please tell me that this isn't true. 90?
dadams @ 8:
DING DING DING! There's our prize winner!
We need to cut education to fund the war, and let the private sector take over!! LOLOL! No no...wait...we need to decrease benefits to children....no no...
Rusty Shackleford @ 6:
that was certainly a moronic racist remark.
Gang
Of
Pinheads
navyswan @ 9:
Read it and weep.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/AverageIQ-Map-World.png
dadams @ 8:
I thought the problem was due to a shortage of maps among US Americans?
Canuknotusa @ 14:
Hell, I don’t trust maps anyway. I saw on the map that Canada us “UP”, but when I looked up last night all I saw were stars. Damned lying maps!
dadams @ 11:
Yep. Sarcasm too.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's not enough to simply carp about this administration's bullshit. You have to educate people about who is truly responsible for 9/11:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
People are horrified by what we all witnessed on 9/11, and instinctively understand that we need to fight back against that threat. You can't just say Iraq is the wrong answer. You have to tell them the right answer, too.
And given the lengths to which this administration has gone to pamper and protect the Saudis over the last six years, it should become crystal clear to everyone that this administration is not just guilty of stupidity and incompetence, but treason, in their conduct of our national defense.
Personally, here in West Texas, I keep hoping for an average of 90 among my...er... peers...
Nothing Intelligent about Intelligent design...
"So, for every five Republicans you meet, on average, two of them are confused about this basic fact."
Thanks so much for some fresh bathroom conversation. I'll keep it in mind for the next time someone does the toe tapping thing.
So, Bill, should we invade Saudi Arabia as the next middle east boogie man, or should we, I don't know, maybe Stay the Hell out of the Middle East Completely and start taking care of our own country?!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's not enough to just carp about this administration's bullshit. You've got to educate people about who truly is responsible for 9/11:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
People are horrified by what they saw on 9/11, and instinctively understand that we need to fight back against that threat. Telling them that Iraq is the wrong answer is not enough. You've got to tell them the right answer, too.
And given the degree to which this administration has pampered and protected the Saudis over the past six years, it should become crystal clear to everyone that this administration is not only guilty of stupidity and incompetence in its conduct of our national defense, but treason as well.
I imagine this explains the president's rock-solid approval ratings in the 30 percent range.
Fade @ 20:
Having a POLICY that extends beyond "bomb the shit out of everyone" would be a good start.
Liberal AND Proud @ 2:
You're assuming the family tree has a fork in it?
"Having a POLICY that extends beyond “bomb the shit out of everyone” would be a good start"
but...but... who do we bomb? All these problems can't be our own fault, can they?
"We use smart bombs that only kill bad people." - Said by several Texans...
If the fact that Bush refused to capture bin laden when he had the chance and STILL hasn't caught him after six years doesn't phase these people, then minor facts about Sadam and 9/11 shouldn't get in the way of maintaining their stupidity.
Shit, every time I see another quote from my fellow Texans, i lose a few fkn iq points...
this is not surprising. how many people think bush is doing a good job? how many americans can find iraq on a world map? on a map of the middle east? how many americans could find alaska on the map? and on and on and on....
it is not surprising but it is fucking depressing.
is it the media's fault? the educational system? our culture? dunno, but, as has been said many democracy requires an informed populace, and we, as americans, have set ourselves up for biiig trouble. oh wait, too late, its here already.
What an incredibly horrific concept you raise. That it is possible for me to meet 5 Republicans
When you are alleging a group is dumb it is critical that you are not dumber than they are.
You do understand the difference between a conclusion and a theory ... right? In particular if the theory is true 1) proves you right on other points and 2) generates advantages like ... WEALTH AND POWER.
Are they stupid as you imply or simply self serving? Are they stupid or ... evil.
Are they stupid or are you?
You are expecting self serving people to literally commit philosophical suicide before your very eyes. They wont. They will reinforce the linchpin that connects and justifys all that follows ... Saddam FLEW one of the planes that hit the WTC ... all that follows is therefore just.
Do you know your adversary? If not ... they will have you.
After reading "Conservatives without Conscience", this all makes perfect sense to me. 1 in 3 believe Saddam's complicity, and 1/3 of all groups of people are authoritarians.
Will Fields @ 29:
only if you are tapping your toes in a public restroom and discussing Saddam's connection with 9-11...
Wordpress just stinks. It throws posts in the trash. Posts that are not repeatable.
As a programmer I have advice ... keep this crap simple. The failure modes of complex software are disasterous and final.
Fade @ 27:
Yeah, I'm a native Texan too. When I hear people say these things, I begin to think that I must be an alien that has been abducted by humans.
There is just nothing really that can be said to counter stupidity that reaches such depths.
The problem with many people is they believe the first thing they hear and never bother to incorporate new information, especially when that new information conflicts with the first thing heard. We all do this to some degree, it is just natural, but some do it to near-insane extreme. This is why so many on the right hate the idea of better schooling; they want to be the first thing heard by the robots, not any message of understanding and tolerance.
To keep my discarded post simple and short ...
Benen is an idiot. He doesnt understand self serving swine and naively believes what they tell him.
[Sorry-It got stuck in the tubes. It's posted now, anon-Sitemonitor]
Dude, everybody knows that Saddam personally flew remote control planes into the World Trade Center on 9/11! Gosh, get with the program!
The right wing nutjobs were even trying to blame the Oklahoma City bombing on Saddam or Al-Qaeda rather than admit it was right wing religious nutjobs who did it.
Anyone who still supports Bush and his war after all this time, please go hang yourself in the nearest garage, because that is about all the use we have for you now.
Unless Americans literally RISE up, and throw the Aristocrat CEOs out of their golden palaces by their lapels, you will continue to complain for naught on message boards.
Separate Business and State NOW! Demand that Corporations NOT have the same rights as PEOPLE.
Business should NEED permission from the PEOPLE before they can do a damn THING in this country.
As long as Christ humping morons like Bush and Company are running the show and holding the purse strings of our NATION and WORLD hostage, we will continue to be spoon fed lies until we have no IQ left to challenge them.
GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND DO SOMETHING!
Noah @ 38:
And for that reason they will steal everything not nailed down in Iraq and murder everyone that stands in their way.
Do you see? It isnt stupid .. its evil.
Smack_dab @ 39:
are you trying to say that Saddam ISN'T responsible for the oklahoma city bombing?!?
the cons monopoly on the editorial pages and talk radio have created the perpetual Soma atmosphere
Hey, and if they are using Saddam as an excuse to steal everything they can in Iraq, well at least steal it and use it to pay for the damn war. Stealing it so you can give it to Exxon Mobil Chevron ala the new oil contracts so they can fuck the American public at the gas pump is something you might think would EVEN PISS OFF The 90 iq folks...
This notion was thoroughly debunked by official sources, including those in the White House, years ago, but the myth endures. Polls have shown that belief in this untruth was a prime component in support for the attack on Iraq.
Not true! When asked directly about the link, Bush and others are forced to admit that there is none. But all other times, they conflate Saddam and 9/11 or Saddam and Al Quaeda or Iraq and 9/11 or Iraq and
Al Quaeda all the time. Cheney does this especially actively. They have been doing so ever since 9/11/01. The latest example occurred when Petraeus showed up on 9/11 to deliver his "report." This is why so many people have such a link in their minds. I'm very surprised that you don't mention this.
Some of you assume it's the trailer-park set that believes in the Decider and supports his war. You may be right but there are lots of country club, health club, sports bar and Chamber-of -Commerce Republicans (in all regions not just the poor benighted South) that guzzle the kool-aid too.
Liberal AND Proud @ 23:
I'm sure there's an infinite variety of responses between running around the Middle East like a bull in a china shop, and burying our heads in the sand and hoping for the best.
The point is that Bush's great foreign policy "success" has been dictating how we talk (and think) about the threat of terrorism.
Look at how many times the President has spoken about the 9/11 hijackers, and then how many of those times he's mentioned the roll the Saudis played. Look at how many times the President has spoken about the "suiciders" in Iraq, and then how many of those times he's mentioned the roll the Saudis played. Look at how many times the President has spoken about the rise of Al Qaeda, and then how many of those times he's mentioned the roll the Saudis played.
Clearly, Pres. Bush has decided he doesn't want us saying bad things about his bestest oil buddies in the Middle East (not to mention his long lost "brother," Bandar Bush). And we've all been quite obedient.
Myths and so-called urban legends persist even after thorough debunking. Just yesterday, I heard again the one again that claims Oliver North perceived the threat of OBL back in 1987 and said so when questioned by Al Gore during the Iran-Contra hearings. Only problem is Gore didn't ask North any questions and North never, ever mentioned OBL. Yet, this story was retold to me as if it were fact. Oddly enough, these falsehoods generally seem to put in question the credibility of someone the right would like to dismiss such as Gore, Jane Fonda, Michael Moore or Moveon.org.
Fade @ 44:
Awe, come on. We aren't stealing their oil, we are liberating it! I think it's called Operation Iraqi Liberation, or OIL for short.
This is such an important story. I cut from my daily read to compose this letter and send it to my senators. Hopefully some of you will feel likely compelled, and you're welcome to clip and past mine:
Dear Senator ---------,
Would you please draft a new law making it illegal for the President, or any member of Congress or any sworn officer of the court, to LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. It seems to me that a government of, by, and for the people should not have liars in office.
Here is an example of the unmercifully applied lies and I don't have to reiterate the cost of this one:
9/11 Linked To Iraq, In Politics if Not in Fact
By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 12, 2007; Page A01
The television commercial is grim and gripping: A soldier who lost both legs in an explosion near Fallujah explains why he thinks U.S. forces need to stay in Iraq.
"They attacked us," he says as the screen turns to an image of the second hijacked airplane heading toward the smoking World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. "And they will again. They won't stop in Iraq."
Every investigation has shown that Iraq did not, in fact, have anything to do with the Sept. 11 attacks. But the ad, part of a new $15 million media blitz launched by an advocacy group allied with the White House, may be the most overt attempt during the current debate in Congress over the war to link the attacks with Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/11/AR200709...
Another example of the pervasive extent of lies is the way that Wall Street and the Fed is allowed to lie to the American people about the financially devastating condition of our economy. We the people have become enslaved to the insiders club in D.C. and we don't like it one bit. Believe me we are certainly NOT stupid and lacking a formal education does not lower one's I.Q.
The people are very upset and this is the heart of the matter.
I ask, do you think it is possible to meet with other like minded senators and draft a law to make it UNLAWFUL to LIE to the American people?
Please? For the sake of our nation something needs to be done.
Most Sincerely Yours,
Charles Elliott @ 46:
definitely true
Let Freedumb reign!
Fade @ 25:
Do we REALLY want to get into a debate or even a list of places where U.S. interference in the internal workings of other nations has led to violence and death.
All the troubles that we see, are the result of bad U.S. policy for decades. Now, to be fair to GWB the Chimperor, he is not the author of all bad U.S. policy. But, he is the author of a policy that has eliminated even the CONCEPT of diplomacy, eliminated the use of "proxies" and I am NOT talking mercernaries but proxies, and a policy that basically says threaten to bomb or bomb first and ask questions later. This policy has basically led to our SURRENDER on the Korean peninsula (we simply haven't stood down the troops yet), the complete disintegration of a peace process in Palestine, the complete surrender of our national security to the Chinese (due to ridiculous and misguided economic policies on the part of this Administration), blustering around the world that has led to distrust and outright hostility to the U.S., and the disillusionment of our historical allies.
The Middle East hates us because of our MEDDLING in their society. They aren't so pissed off at our taking their oil. They are against our presence due to societal reasons. They don't want "democracy", it conflicts with their religion. Their leaders don't want democracy, it conflicts with their ability to rape their own people. When you do business with people, you don't ask them to conform to YOUR societal rules...who GIVES a shit...it's business. Now, as I said, GWB did not create that problem. But he exacerbated that problem by invading a country that did not attack us. The entire Middle East would have CHEERED...yes...CHEERED...if GWB had actually gone after Bin Laden RIGHT AFTER 9/11 and either captured or killed him. 9/11 horrified the WORLD. We horrified the world by using that event to mask our agenda for oil domination.
Does that answer your question?
Liberal AND Proud @ 2:
the worse part is they still think 19 mid easteners did it!
Well, sad indeed. But while we're harping on how stupid that 40% of republicans is, let's not forget that a still frightening 27% of Democrats are also, to put it mildly, 'confused.'
I wouldn't call this a party problem (in that it's confined to a party....it is primarily the fault of a certain party).
I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers, but I don't see how I could do much more than bone her, because every time she'd flap her jowls about the president, I'd have to move my bowls. And I don't think she's into scat, and I'm not either, so it would be bad. and messy. She'd leave saying "eeeeew" and I would be "Thank GAWD she's gone." Then I'd go check the video...
See? Now I can say that here and everyone thinks I'm creepy, but funny. Tweetie says "You are BABE-O-LICIOUS" and suddenly he's Aqualung. Nice people. Must be a slow news day.
How about them spineless weasels, Reid?
Personally I think the continued confusion is no confusion at all. The people that still think this are also the war's most staunch supporters. If they concede Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, they lose their argument over continuing the war. It's arrogance, not stupidity that this poll reflects.
Liberal AND Proud @ 2:
this statistic is proof of the total failure of the media in this country. They're supposed to be informing people, instead they just confuse people.
Mike @ 3:
Here's another one:
http://www.zenspider.com/RWD/Thoughts/Inept.html
Yep, the evidence is overwhelming. Republicans are dumb.
well, I'm glad to know it's improved. 40% used to believe Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
Craig @ 57:
I disagree. the only thing the poll reflects is the media's constant pounding of the repug lies and their de-emphasis of the importance of facts.
Turk Meister @ 48:
As you correctly point out, this is just another example of political urban legend-spreading and the gullibility of the uncritical masses.
Oliver North certainly ranks with some of the greatest liars ever to have disgraced the halls of American power. However, even North himself has debunked this story about his alleged testimony to a panel supposedly including Al Gore, and his alleged references to OBL in 1987.
Back then, Osama had not yet turned against the US (that came after the deployment of the US military to Saudi Arabia, the "Land of the Holy Sites", in 1990). North's testimony referred to Abu Nidal/Sabri al-Banna and Muammar Ghaddafi.
In his statements to the Iran-Contra hearings, North was asked to explain why a US$16,000 home security system had been installed in his home, paid for by Iran-Contra funds. His testimony was subsequently distorted by some anonymous internet user to make Gore look back. Of course, North's actual testimony at the time may or may not have been the truth; in any case, he has personally refuted the e-mail that began to circulate on the web after 11 September 2001.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.asp
eeermmm... should be "to make Gore look bad".
Craig/911 @ 40:
Are we surprised?
When was the last time "the brittany spears media" reported this"...
--> The Bush Administration is STILL blocking the 2nd half Sept 11 report.
Also Remembering...
Six air traffic controllers provided accounts of their communications with hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, on a tape recording that was later destroyed by Federal Aviation Administration managers,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6632-2004May6
I wonder what a former navy pilot and instructor in World War II with 50 years experience in aviation who went on to work as inspector and investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has to say.
http://www.defraudingamerica.com/faa_corruption.html
The Independent: Robert Fisk: Even I question the 'truth' about 9/11
http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article2893860.ece
Many of you have already nailed it. They're not confused, they simply refuse to acknowledge the truth here.
chris @ 55:
That's true, it's just the fault of a certain party that they're still trying to confuse the masses, as it's in their best interest.
There is no confusion on the part of the American people. We want this invasion ended period.
The problem is with George W Bush and the republican party, and media, who think this shit is cute.
They are going to look up in the 2008 election and find themselves unemployed in massive numbers.
Democrats need to serve notice on all of these thugs, that they will not get any more funding to do anything other then bring the troops home. We need to be all over their web sites and standing in their offices to make this message clear and Republicans need to get on board and stop lying and sucking up to Bush.
Screw the change course crap and just bring the troops home. The time is ended for the word games they are playing. They need to tell it like it is and bring the dame troops home.
The stupid ass, uneducated morons, who still believe this Saddam crap watch Faux Noise where they repeat the lies over and over.
Mike @ 3:
So is this why you guys continue to harp on about the 2000 elections and anthropogenic global warming?
Login or Register to post comments.