John Edward's Response To Bush's Surge Speech
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Sep 12, 2007 10:30pm
Democratic presidential contender John Edwards purchased ad time on MSNBC to air his response to the president's address this evening. Pulling no punches, Edwards goes directly after President Bush and his failed surge but does not spare the Democrats for caving to him and continuing to fund the occupation of Iraq.
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Transcripts below the fold
This week - as we will forever - we remember those lost on September 11th. And this week, Washington refocuses on Iraq. But the question of Iraq is separate from September 11th - as it has always been, whatever George Bush would have us believe.
Likewise, supporting our troops and pursuing a failed war are not the same things - whatever George Bush would have us believe.
All Americans honor the incredible sacrifice of our troops. They have done everything asked of them with courage and resolve. Now we should bring them home.
They are policing a civil war, and the only way to end that civil war is for both sides, Sunni and Shia, to take responsibility to end it by agreeing to a political solution. And the only way to force them to take responsibility is to withdraw our troops - starting now.
Unfortunately, the president is pressing on with the only strategy he has ever had - more time, more troops, and more war.
In January, after years of evidence that military actions cannot force a political solution, the president announced a military surge to force a political solution. In May, he vetoed a plan to end the war, demanded more time to show the surge could work, and Congress gave it to him. Now, after General Petraeus reports the surge has produced no progress toward a political solution, what does the president want? More time for the surge to work, when we know it won't.
Our troops are stuck between a president without a plan to succeed and a Congress without the courage to bring them home.
But Congress must answer to the American people. Tell Congress you know the truth - they have the power to end this war and you expect them to use it. When the president asks for more money and more time, Congress needs to tell him he only gets one choice: a firm timeline for
withdrawal.
No timeline, no funding. No excuses.
It is time to end this war.
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Frist!
Is impeachment on the table yet?
I wonder if Nancy Pelosi will lose her seat over that "Impeachment Is Off The Table" comment... What was she thinking?!?
Where was this John Edwards when the Senate was voting to give this president the authorization to start this slaughter?
Oh, yeah. That's right. He was voting for it.
fantastic! necessary! and a challenge to the cowards in the democratic party!
I loved every second.
Is impeachment on the table yet?
There isn't even a table to put it on, friends.
Edwards doesn't deserve the presidency, he failed us. So did Hillary. Obama has a good voting record but too little experience. From what I've seen and heard so far, my money's on Kucinich. I just think he's the right answer.
Indigowatcher @ 3:
she should lose her seat and I won't miss her.
Glad it's been said by a high profile candidate.
But I still expect Congress to cave and give Bush whatever he wants.
Change is in the hands of We The People, and the longer we sit and wait for someone else to do our job for us, the less likely it is to happen. We've got almost 7 years to make up for.
Let's talk about the speech...HE SAID IT..WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID...(and Obama did yesterday)...and MORE need to tell the truth..and go to the march this weekend..
I don't get the people who won't allow Edwards a change of opinion. Yes, he made a mistake, but He is acknowledging that mistake and attempting to do something different now. We are so quick to attack Bush for being unable to change positions, but when we have someone who will, he is attacked as not having the fortitude to make the choice at the beginning. I applaud this statement as a clear, concise, non-attacking message to both sides of the aisle. This is the approach we need. Not threating, not attack messages, but a firm, strong commitment to doing what they say and not backing down. Come on Congress, do this NOW!!!!
Great ad for Edwards. The debate is well framed and I loved "The President Would Have Us Believe".
I agree, it's time for the Democrats to have the courage of our convictions and do everything we can to stop this terrible Iraq policy.
js
"It was a robust international meeting where Iraqi leaders expressed their determination to meet a series of benchmarks they have set for political progress. In other words, they have not only told me that they're going to meet benchmarks, they've not only told Secretary Gates that they intend to meet benchmarks, but they've also told the international community they intend to do so." George W. Bush 4 months ago - whitehouseDOTgov/news/releases/2007/05/20070510-6.html
"No. Look, benchmarks were something that Congress wanted to use as a metric - and we're going to produce a report. But the fact is that the situation is bigger and more complex, and you need to look at the whole picture." White House Spokesman Yesterday - whitehouseDOTgov/news/releases/2007/09/20070912.html
In his speech to the nation Thursday night, President Bush unveiled the latest official White House talking point on Iraq. Destined for regurgitation from reliable Republican mouthpieces is "Return on Success." That business sounding jargon from our first - and failed - MBA president is designed to reassure the American people that after our troops fight them there, they can come home here.
For the complete list of RNC-approved Iraq sound bites, see:
"'Return on Success' Added to Official GOP Iraq Talking Points."
This was a much better rebuttal than Reed, but he only had 1 minute. Too bad he had to pay for it himself as part of his campaign.
Indigowatcher @ 7:
This is indeed right on the mark. Kucinich needs money though, the top candidates are getting all of the big bucks and someone like Kucinich, even though he is the only one who knows what he is talking about and is bold enough to say it like it is doesn't get squat for endorsements or contributions. He even has a difficult time getting press time, and they cut his picture and statements out when anything is reported. Big business is afraid of him and doing all they can to stop his message from being heard. Heck, they are getting filthy rich on the war, they don't want peace. He is telling the truth about our situation and about what is going on in the mid east so they try to silence him by slandering him and calling him a traitor. Without funds he can't fight back affectively enough to set the record straight.
QuakerDave @ 4:
Yes, he did vote to give bush authorization to use force after all other strategies had been tried.
He also voted against the $97b check to fund this debacle.
So go ahead and hold the mistake against him, and overlook the one person the rethugs cannot defeat.
Well, Edwards is smart enough to call for an end to this war, though he wasn't smart enough to vote against it's authorization. I do give him credit for admitting that he was wrong and regrets having made that error, but a costly error it was and continues to be.
That said...................Kucinich '08!
> the one person (Edwards) the rethugs cannot defeat.
That's simply not true IMHO. The Republican'ts cannot defeat anyone. All they can do is distort voting results. Only thing that will happen with the other Dems is if they believe the Can'ts BS and use their language and they defeat themselves.
I agree that Edwards is the Dem mostly likely to win if put against any Repuke challenger. Now is this reason to vote for him in the primaries...I don't know. That is a complex series of trade-offs perhaps.
Oh hell yeah! Good on you John E.
Looks like Edwards is our only way out...
He just got one more vote!
Steve K.
Walnut Creek, CA
Indigowatcher @ 7:
I am with you on Dennis Kucinich. I did like this particular use of Edwards campaign dollar however.
Very well done. He got a lot said in a short span of time.
I've heard "General Betray Us" so much, that even when the name is correctly pronounced as "Patraeus," my mind still hears it as "General Betray Us."
Well I hope he approves his message, LOL! (That ending was a bit jarring, heh)
I saw something in Edwards here, that I haven't seen before. A leader. For the first time, I'm starting to seriously consider voting for him.
Wes @ 24:
Oh, Yeah. Kucinich. Let's all just jump off the cliff together, shall we? Geez.
I'm personally not a fan of Edwards but he had one of his better moments here.
I'm gonna vote Kucinich in the primary. But if Edwards should win the nomination, I'll be happy to vote for him in the general election.
I haven’t yet made up my mind about who I’m voting for IN FOURTEEN MONTHS. Even if I had, I probably wouldn’t be expressing my personal decision here, but…
I will tell any candidate one way to influence my vote.
Repeat after me, “I will promise to peruse those responsible for criminal malfeasance and Federal Government THEFT well beyond 2008; seek convictions for those guilty, and punish those convicted to the full extent of the law!”
No one has said this yet.
QuakerDave @ 6:
Like the Paris Peace Talks, the HouseDems can't even get together and decide on the shape of the friggin' thing!
C'mon HouseDems, quit this fooling around dammit!
BaScOmBe @ 8:
She should be impeached for making that statement. Impeachment is a constitutional responsibility for a lawless corrupt executive. Who is Pelosi to unilaterally take it off the table?
Run, Cindy, run! (or anyone who will challenge Pelosi - she is not leebrul enough for San Francisco that's for sure)
Edwards is, of course, correct that the Democrats could immediately stop the war in Congress by simply refusing to vote on a war budget -- no need for veto-proof margin, no need for filibuster proof margin -- just don't vote on a budget.
That gives Edwards the luxury for calling for this since he is not in the Congress right now. But unfortunately the Democrat controlled congress will never do this, so they're all talk and no action.
> She should be impeached for making that statement. Impeachment is a constitutional responsibility for a lawless corrupt executive. ...
Actually you're 100% correct about that.
I don't know what all of you are talking about. I just logged onto CNN.com and they are reporting that Bush says troops are coming home: ""We are seizing the initiative from the enemy and the troop surge is working," he said."
Mission accomplished. Bush is truly a great leader and war president.
(but what's left out of both of our comments is that impeachment is *also* for failing to uphold the Constitution, and that's what Pelosi should be impeached for. I don't think that she's lawless or currupt.)
I like Dennis K. But I also like Edwards very much and I think he has a shot at being the leader that we need to clean up Bush's mess. His populist message is very scary to the Republican'ts and that is why they have tried to marginalize him so early.
I am keeping my mind open, but I like his message so far.
PP, when you post sarcasm or reduction ad absurdum, you should probably wink after it so we don't think that you're attempting to be serious.
PurplePatriot @ 35:
Yeah, I heard this too. And all Americans have won the lottery, the bonus checks are in the mail, and everybody gets a pony.
I am so happy that John Edwards said no time-line, no money. It is time for the Democrats to stop playing around. Time is running out.
Kucinich is the only candidate speaking like this, up to this point.
Irene in Seattle
Stanley Rosenthal @ 29
I'm with you all the way on that one. I can even see voting for Obama in a pinch. However, Hilary is a place i'd rather not go.
Peace!
Irene, Edwards can say that because he is not currently in the Senate. If he was, he neither could nor would say that.
kucinich cannot win
stop thinking like lefties and think practically
the thing we all must do is....stop hillary
> kucinich cannot win
Sure he can.
"Anything is possible"
Because the R's own the corporations and news media, we hear what they want us to hear. This is also why MSM hasn't covered Edwards' message of positions.
Because the R's are fearful of Edwards, we hear about his house, his haircut, his trial attorney profession. They don't mock his positions because they know he is telling the truth.
Edwards is the only choice. he gets my vote. Listen to his plans on health care, lobbiests, education, and the rest. It ain't just about the war. Hes got my vote for sure.
Stanley Rosenthal @ 44:
Yes, he can.
They said the same about Carter, Kennedy, Truman, Lincoln dot-dot-dot.
Many things can happen between now and then. The primaries will be the beginning of the decision making process. And it really bugs me that the media is hyping elections two-years in advance.
Indigowatcher @ 7:
Edwards talks the talk, but is an opportunist. He's the watered-down, capitalist-friendly version of Dennis Kucinich.
I would like Kucinich, but Edwards isn't a bad choice. I've been against this Iraq mess from the start, we had U.N. weapons inspectors there for god's sake. But Edwards, along with most of congress and the american public, were sucked in by the parade of important people who claimed this war was neccesary. We knew it was based on lies even then. That is why the intertubes rule. Truth doesn't come from the msm. But I don't hold that against Edwards. The ability to change due to circumstances is a sign of intelligence. Further highlighting how ignorant the constitution-hating repugs are.
It's true, it's still quite awhile before we get to vote. But of those announced at this time (what I based my statements on), Kucinich is the best candidate out there. Maybe someone might enter the race later on that I would vote for over Kucinich, but just about the only person who would probably automaticaly get my vote over Kucinich if they would do that that I can think of at the moment, is John Amato.
Oh fer cryin' out friggin LOUD!
Even I knew what bush was going to do when given the authorization to use force.
Edwards may indeed be regretful but he helped make the decision to go to war. I knew, you knew, and he knew that bush was going to attack.
JC, after all the hassle and the millions that bushco must have spent beating the war drums - o'course that stupid SOB was going to war.
Kucinich is our only choice. And let's tell the truth - is he not the democrat that most/best represents us???
Let's back him up.
Taarak @ 48:
carter was a miserable pres...
kennedy was assasinated
truman was a crook who only became prez thru sheer luck and the death of a prez, and won reelection cuz the repugs back then couldnt get their act together
kucinich is an intellectual, in the mode of adlai stevenson....and americans dont want an intellectual as prez
so if kucinich wins the nom (he wont) he will lose the general.....even if he is up against scum like rudy
you guys need to face facts
and will you all please stop saying that obama doesnt have enuf experience
Oh and public opinion polls at the time had the country at 70% supporting the war too. What do you think the reaction, to Edwards not voting yes then, would have been by all these Nostradamus types who blast him for voting yes. Its what the majority of the country wanted, why don't you blame them. It would have been political suicide and you all know that in the same situation you would have voted yes too. He admitted the mistake and thats more than you get from 90% of the politicians running for office today and what we need in a leader. The abiltiy to admit and see the mistakes because you can see the tragic effects created by our supposed leader who can't admit to one.
Or Kaen. I'd vote for her as well.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 53:
...and every one of them were told that they could never win.
Karen, sorry for the spelling error. :-)
UJM -
> ... carter was a miserable pres…
Spoken like a true McCarthyite. Who was to know that there was truth in your pseudo???? :-)
kucinich cannot win
stop thinking like lefties and think practically
There goes that weak minded bullshit again. If people who actually like and believe in Kucinich voted their conscience and not because "he doesn't have electability" then it wouldn't be an issue. Basically that's capitulating to "CV".
Don't let the reich wing tell you how lefties think. Especially when they're pretending to be lefties.
Dennis has won at every level of government and has served in all three branches.
He has proven that he can win...in OHIO, thank you very much, by not backing down on principle.
Not on an opinion or belief, but a principle, that all people are created equal and are deserving of equal justice before the law.
Oh yeah, he also saved a steel mill, a hospital and a public power utility when he was told he couldn't win.
Have the top-tier candidates ever saved anything in their careers? Besides their hides?
Dennis wins by not listenening to people who say he can't win.
I am voting for Dennis, have joined the local group and have sent money.
It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Yeah! What Explainer said.
Thank you!
Peace!
"I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it, than vote for something I don't want, and get it." -Eugene Debs
Well, you gotta give this to Edwards: He knows what people want to hear. He's clever.
But words are just words. I'm withholding judgment on him. My first choice is Kucinich. Chance or no chance, he's the only true Dem out there.
wakeup @ 61:
True that. But Edwards does have some fortitude. He was the first candidate to tell faux news to go to hell. Twice. He gets some street cred for that.
EJG @ 16:
Kucinich = The Great Pumpkin. He has no chance. Edwards at the very least admits that he made a mistake by voting to authorize military force. Isn't the failure to admit error one of the greatest criticisms leveled at Bush? When did Hillary make her speech admitting that voting for the force authorization was unequivocally wrong? Edwards is absolutely right in his message now - much like it took some time to get Bobby Kennedy to step forward and make a stand in '68 (oh, what might have been then), and he is far more credible and charismatic than Senator Clinton will ever be. Obama is playing it too safe, too worried about upsetting anyone, playing not to lose. As is true in sports, competitors using that strategy have a tendency to not win. Edwards is the one we oughta rally behind.
I like Edwards. I thought his response was very honest and actually came from somewhere more meaningful than a prompter. I forgive him for his mistake to vote for the war authorization.
I am all for Kucinich. But my second choice is Edwards. He may be more watered down than Kucinich. But could you just imagine having either one of these guys in the White House after the destructive two term death grip from the Bush Administration? Oh man, wouldn't that be wonderful?
I really don't want to see Hillary make it through. I'm done with all this dynasty BS. No more Bushes, no more Clintons. But, I think we all agree, whoever comes out of the primary we stand behind them, and let no republican push us around when they attempt to smear them or steal the election in 08 and then we will finally see some blue sky again (even if it is not as blue as we want it to be).
Tony from NYC @ 11:
I don't get people as detached as you.
His actions are not simply a CHANGE of opinion... like whether or not you like Fluff on your Peanut Butter and Nanner sandwiches...
He made a decision...
And Hundreds of thousands are DEAD and ROTTING.. Millions of LIVES are broken forever...
His pandering helped turn each and every one of us into a mass killer by proxy...
No one deserves a second chance when they make a mistake this big...
The only honorable thing for all of our Poly(many)-Tics(blood sucking creatures) is for them all to cash in their chips...(they all have plenty).. And step down from public life forever..
Their failures are not redeemable...
You guys always say you want them to be held accountable..
Now is the time to walk the walk.. Do not vote for any of these bastards... And when the smoke clears.. I believe there will be only one standing..
The giant amongst men.. Dennis Kucinich.
I'm also for Kucinich! He is the smartest choice and the bravest of all of them to even go to Syria and see the assessment's for himself. He said that he would have a dialogs with the other nation, and he did just that. I like that he did as he says he would do. That has count for so much. Hillary had the talk and came back blaming the Iraqi for not stepping up to plate. Kucinich instead noted the achievement of the Syrian govt to house 1.5 million Iraqi refugees. He has remain hopeful and positive in bringing about peace.
Indigowatcher @ 3:
You know, if Patty Murray the Mom in Tennis Shoes could win a Senate seat and hold on to it, I think Cindy Sheehan will do just fine in the House of Representatives.
He doesnt have a chance?
He does when you vote for him...
He has the BEST ideas...
He has the BEST integrity...
He has the BEST heart...
Why dont you people stop thinking like sheepish Consumerist Americans.. and start thinking and acting like REAL AMERICANS???
A president does not have to be tall... or Handsome... or have Great Hair...
He HAS TO BE REAL...
And so do you all..
Vote Dennis .. or Death.
(besides.. a candidate like Dennis Kucinich would motivate all those voters that election after election stay home and refuse to vote... you know .. The Majority.)
Do people realize that the Clinton came from the Republican-Democratic branch of party?
Look it up! At the time of Bill Clinton running people were looking for the middle and Bill encapsulated that spot perfectly with his democratic conservative views. But I don't think after 2 terms of that death grip of the Bush administration that the people want anything close to the neo-con way of govt. I also think that is why the media keep pushing for Hillary as the best choice for the Republican party.
I really think that main stream America is ready for a President that they wouldn't think first about having a beer with, someone who could actually run this place. I think Kucinich is that man. And I'd like to smoke a joint with him.
Oh yeah no doubt...
If this was 1950 they (clinton's) would be All the way Republicans...
They are bought and paid for... Look at the money they raise, grassroots funding from the people? Nah...
Big deep pockets... That OWN those people is where they suckle from.. The same kinds of people that are making a killing over this War on Terror... So when the shit hits the fan.. and the sycophantic drones of the DEMOCRATIC Corporate Party get their way and get Hillary.. Obama.. or Edwards...
Do we really suck the ether and believe that we are leaving all that power behind in Iraq for those "primitives" to fight over?
You would buy that?
We are not leaving Iraq with any of the candidates sponsored by the main stream Military Media Industrial Complex.... Don't be a tool.
Unless of course they pay you to come on here and bolster support for their automatons.
Stanley Rosenthal @ 71:
Amen...
I'll get the papers...
(Besides.. what is more American then having a kid who when his parents lost their jobs due to layoffs... he lived in a CAR... then one day he became President..)
I respect the love for Kucinich, but anyone who thinks he has even the most remote hint of a facsimile of a shadow of what kind of looks like a ghost of a chance to win is just flat-out fooling themselves. He cannot win in Iowa, he cannot win in New York, he cannot win in California, he cannot win in Illinois, he cannot win in Florida. He cannot win anywhere because he *doesn't have enough money.*...*Period.*
All the good will in the world--which he seems to have--is gonna mean squat when the deluge of money comes down from the top candidates. Frankly, that's Edwards' biggest challenge, too. The difference is, Edwards has a lot of money ($13.3M on hand--more than any R except Giuliani), whereas Clinton and Obama have *insane* stacks on hand ($45M and $36M, respectively). Kucinich is essentially broke ($213,000).
You figure out a way to severely fatten your boy's wallet, then you can talk Carter, Original Recipe Clinton, et al. If that doesn't pan out, you may want to consider Edwards as your war-ending, health-care-providing, populist compromise.
Facts, people. Don't avoid them.
Jesse @ 49:
No. Edwards is his own person who was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He worked his way up from a lower middle class family and worked in the mills during the summer just so he could pay for college. As an attorney he has always fought for the little guy taking on large teams of attorneys from well funded corporations. I would hardly call that being an opportunist. Edwards has won many cases against against hospitals, cities, and corporations. Edwards was so effective that many insurance companies would suddenly become interested in settling when Edwards' name was added to a plaintiff's team. Edwards Given the way some corporations, HMOs and insurance companies are continuing their attack on the middle class, Edwards and Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers of America's national award for public service after winning a lawsuit against a company that knowingly installed drains with faulty covers in wading pools. One of those drains produced such a strong suction that it almost ripped out all of a 5 yr old girl's intestines. Edwards turned down 5 settlemnet offers and also found out just before the hearings that 12 other children were injured by the same kind of drain made by the same company. Lawyers are often privy to information that is extremely difficult for consumers to obtain.
This shows Edwards will take on large corporations, HMOs, and insurance companies. Edwards knows how to fight and win against the corrupt officials in these industries. This country is in desperate need of someone who is standing up against the Bush Report and faulty numbers that slithered out of Bush's mouth tonight. Edwards is pushing a sound progressive agenda and is speaking with conviction. This guy can win the nomination, but he will have an extreme uphill battle because the Establishment of Elites in Washington.
Kucinich is the ONLY honest man up on the stage during debates. He knows what he's talking about, knows the facts and has the intellectual ability to make the right choices for America. Hillary and Obama are batting for more than five teams. They are corporate and lobby group shills.
I've sent Kucinich another contribution after hearing him speak on Ed Schultz.
My comment in #75 is refuting someone calling Edwards an opportunist. Kucinich fought and worked hard to get where he is today. I am in no way implying Kucinich was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
Money...
What a savage wound into the heart of our republic...
sigh..
Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg Poll
9/8/2007
Iowa
Hillary Clinton28%
John Edwards23%
Barack Obama19%
Bill Richardson10%
Joe Biden2%
Dennis Kucinich2%
Chris Dodd1%
Unsure15%
American Research Group
8/28/2007
Iowa
Hillary Clinton28%
Barack Obama23%
John Edwards20%
Bill Richardson13%
Dennis Kucinich3%
Joe Biden1%
Chris Dodd1%
Unsure11%
NewsMax/Zogby International poll
8/18/2007
Iowa
Hillary Clinton30%
John Edwards23%
Barack Obama19%
Bill Richardson10%
Joe Biden3%
Dennis Kucinich1%
Unsure13%
ONE Vote 08 poll conducted by Peter D Hart Research Associates (D)
8/3/2007
Iowa
John Edwards30%
Hillary Clinton22%
Barack Obama18%
Bill Richardson13%
Joe Biden5%
Dennis Kucinich1%
Unsure11%
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/iowa.html
I have a great deal of respect for Kucinich, but you might as well vote for Ralph Nader!
Tony from NYC @ 11:
Ah, but Tony, it seems that only those for the war are allowed that "right" to change thier minds. it truly is scary how short people's memories are. just a year or so ago, if one were to voice an opinion different from the current administration, one was labeled "unpatriotic" or anti military. it's reassuring to know that there are people such as you who are willing to accept that john edwards (and others) have changed their opinion. i feel that had the facts had been presented (key word here, facts and not fear) many politicians would have hopefully voted otherwise and not had to backtrack and change thier "opinions" regarding this issue. a lot of people seem to forget that bush stated previously that we could begin withdrawing troops in september of this year. it's also my opinion that bush is only making consessions of sorts since 1. someone finally read to him how poorly his ratings were and 2. the election is next year. just watch, our terror rating will rise as the election nears. again, the issue here is not that john edwards changed his opinion, the point is, for this post, as you so eloquently put it, "a clear, concise, non-attacking message to both sides of the aisle". thank you for stating what needs to be said.
Bill @ 74:
YOU, sir, is what's wrong with America. You've given up alooooooong time ago. You may think you're a realist, but you're misteken. Don't forget that dreamers are the ones who got us to the moon. Sure it sounds hokey, but it's true. Aspiration and perseverance should never die. And don't ever dare drag others down with you.
I’ll take a month off of work and risk losing my job and living off of my savings if it means that my children will have a better future should the RIGHT person be elected. I feel Kucinich is right for America. I really do.
We can’t sell ourselves short AGAIN. We deserve better. We deserve better. And if your'e not willing or READY to make some sacrifices then you, sir, don't deserve better.
Thank you for your time.
Indigowatcher @ 7:
He's got MY vote. Long ago . . . . he's for complete change, top to bottom, and he's got plans to do it.
He's a target for elimination, too . . . god help him and his wife and family.
I'm for Kuch. If we vote for him, he can WIN!!!!
Taarak @ 30:
Good stuff you put in yer pipe dreams . . . I miss that shit.
And I am TOTALLY with your fervent hopes. I wish it could be so. I SO wish.
Sigh.
Kuch, Edwards. Any combo. Bring it on, change the world.
Rasputin @ 79:
Well, with that kind of defeatist attitude is it any wonder that we're in this dirt hole as a nation?
What would happen if people like you posted ONE post about why you believe Kucinich is right for America, instead of posting statistics that show how he's got no chance?
I'm really surprised. I'm disappointed too. That's a shame. I'm just curious, when you were a teenager growing up, did you have plans for what you wanted to be when you grow up? Did you have dreams? Have you fulfilled those dreams? Or did you end up doing something that you hate because "it pays the bills"?
I say this with all due respect and with a tone of friendliness as if I'm talking to one of my best friends whom I care about, "You need a little kick in the butt". It sounds like you need to get passionate about something and run with it.
Good night and best of luck to you and yours.
Given that there isn't a single poll that has been taken where Kucinich has pulled more than 1% to 3%... he has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.
See for yourselves:
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/iowa.html
As I said before, I have a great deal of respect for the man, but the only thing that a vote for him in the primaries will do is push Hillary closer to winning the nomination and that lobbyists lovin' poster girl for corporatist America would be the worst mistake the Dem party could make.
The only polls that counts, are elections.
It is wrong to say that Bush has the same strategy he has had all along. He has none. He is only trying to delay the inevitable in order to force the next president to take responsibility for his mess. He is not trying to accomplish anything, just escape responsibility. For more discussion on this see
randomabsurdities.wordpress.com
Bob @ 84:
Ad Hominem attacks are hardly warm a fuzzy Bobby boy! Bet you did vote for Nader!
Why can't the Democrats stand together and refuse to give this maniac idiot president more money for his disaster? Let the Republicans explain to their constituents why they insist on funding this mess.
How can anyone believe anything that comes out of the mouth of bush? Biggest liar that ever existed.
Nice hair, Suzy...
High-and-mighty Bob said:
>>YOU, sir, is what's wrong with America.
...OK, first of all, it should be, "You, sir, *are* what's wrong with America." Failure to learn subject-verb agreement is what's wrong with America today. Kudos on the commas, though. Also, you read four paragraphs I wrote, and suddenly you feel qualified to pass judgment on me? You know not of what you speak, bub.
>>I’ll take a month off of work and risk losing my job and living off of my savings if it means that my children will have a better future should the RIGHT person be elected. I feel Kucinich is right for America. I really do.
Bob Manob @ 90:
Yes, his hair did look nice, didn't it. And the message is clear and good. (Maybe, Bob, you should get rid of your mullet?)
Rasputin @ 79:
I have a great deal of respect for Kucinich, but you might as well vote for Ralph Nader!
Well.. Considering how reliable our polls have been during the last few Presidential elections...
Ahem..
When I look at the direction our country is headed in... Where our world is headed in... Our species...
I cannot waste my vote on greasing the tracks for our extinction..
If it comes to voting for any of these...front runners .. I would still vote for Kucinich... It is called hope.
And you know what... sometimes I feel like the majority..(working poor and illusionary middle class) are not suffering enough if at all... There is no real sense of urgency to these bots that are polled... Their lives and the problems we face are not really real to them, at least not real enough to distract them from how pathetic Britney Spears latest attempt at being a 17 year old sex object again... We are fighting the preliminary wars over the last of the energy resources we ignorantly choose to use, It is running out... The party is OVER.. Do we spend what is left on researching and securing a new source or fitting an infrastructure to adapt to meet our ceaselessly hungry and stupid economic system??? Or will we waste what is left on fighting Wars to secure it???? The housing market is about to implode, the potential of the hole which our vastly illusionary economy is going to crash into has no bottom, and there is no rope long enough to get us out of it... The future is bleak at best, Just LOOK at it, and no... not because I want it to be or I am some sort of masochist.. It is what it is to any who dare to look with real eyes... And how can the masses look with real eyes, when the picture is so brutally ugly...when what is passed as news has them squawking and tossing feces at each other... or even worse... distracted for another 5 minutes.
Your hair is too grey, Your teeth too fucking yellow.. Your breath does not smell like a field of mint... your car is a piece of shit.. Your house not up to date... Your children are being hunted by sexual predators... And those goddamn A-rabs wanna convert and kill you ALL!!
That is what the mental children of the western world are ceaselessly told ... They age in years... and not a second emotionally.. they are trapped in a fear bubble... And afraid of everything...
But you know this
They are afraid...of all the wrong things.
Perhaps the human psyche wants it to get worse... much worse before we will move to really make serious change, however my fear... what makes me stay up at night is that the collective will act, and it will be too late.
The Yahngeze (sp?) river dolphin will not be the only mammal to become extinct this millennium... hah ... millennium... you think we have that long.
What happens to the species that reproduces and consumes its resources until they are depleted?
Ok... I will end the rant
Doubt this, put it to the back of your mind... forget about it.
My last post got cut off. (I guess that's what I get for being a negative Nelly.)
Bob said:
OK, Sancho. You and Don Q. have fun slaying the giants of La Mancha. Tell Dulcinea I said, "Hi," if you run into her.
Look, I voted for Nader twice, and I refuse to apologize for it. So there. Thing is, not for the tiniest fraction of a nanosecond did I think he would win.
So go. Go cheer on your hero. Vote for him, of course. But know that he has no chance. Zero. Zip. Zilch. None. As sure as the sun rises every morning, he will not win--
--oh, except to represent the 10th district of Ohio in the U.S. House of Representatives. I'm fairly certain he'll ace that election, no problem.
Rasputin @ 85:
You know how I feel about those polls anyway.. not that you care.
But.
I have never seen so much support for Dennis Kucinich it is just sprouting up everywhere... Even here I mean look at the amount of people that have commented support for him in this Edwards thread alone!!
The support for him on this site by the real human beings that visit it ... absolutely dwarfs what was happening here during the last presidential election cycle.. where I felt like a lone mo0n bat... Now I feel the tides turning.
He has destroyed everyone on my local NPR straw polling show they have done to date... I have people coming up to me in the street
And that is with him not having tons of money.. (mostly because he does not suckle the teat of the corporate beast..and refuses their money)
When people actually hear his message... he wins..
He has won the online polls after the debate on a few different network at least 3 of the last 4 or so..
He is doing incredible work... He deserves our support... because WE decide..
Not the fucking pollsters... or the douche bag styrofoam heads on the teevee..
You respect him.. Toss him a Benjamin..
Help more people hear him to respect him.
I would NOT VOTE for KuSpinach just because Edwards voted for the war. Edwards said exactly what needed to be said, using a logic that has been desperately missing. I expect any president, any human, to make mistakes, but we willing to recognize them and correct them. People and senators were deceived back then, but many have recognized this.
I actually think it's a VERY GOOD QUALITY for a president to show he/she is able to make mistakes, learn from them, and correct them. It appears to be a difficult to come by quality these days.
And the fact that Edwards is challenging democrats -- good for him. I hold every democrat who continues to enable Bush with funding just as responsible for the war as Bush. They are equally horrible if they continue to enable.
Just my 2 cents.
.
I have to say, I like John Edwards. A lot.
He'd be a great President. And I say that as a worker in someone else's campaign.
I wouldn't vote for Kucinich just because Edwards voted to authorize a President to do what he wanted to either. There was a promise made by the President that he would go back to the UN to press his case, but the President broke his promise. I'm not gonna knock Edwards for biting on it, nor am I gonna knock Hillary for biting on it.
I'm gonna vote for Kucinich because he's the best candidate announced.
Folks - you want a winner? It's Edwards.
My preferred candidate is DK. But, although his ideals are fantastic - his executive leadership is limited. Hillary is still HATED in the south (not to mention her roots are not blond - they're republican). And, Obama was too early out of the gate... The rest are also-rans.
Remember - Edwards came out early to accept his error. He has been promoting a populous message since day one. He is youthful looking, even 'cute' (remember - even Bill got booed off the stage in '88). And, he will win the Southern and/or value vote. Not to mention - he is part of a team (along with Gore and, to a lot less degree Kerry) who appears robbed - and makes people go "if only". I think he did great against Darth Vader in the VP debates!
Here is to a strong win in Iowa, John! Good luck!
Now - to continue the theme - GO SAM... GO BROWNBACK GO! ;o)
Mistakes?...
Mass Slaughter is not a mistake...
War of Aggression is not a mistake...
WE KNEW what the hell was going to happen...and thats down here on the ground... So that whole..
"Well Bushie lied to them, They didn't know what was going to happen... blah blab blah"
Is Bullshit...
There is plenty of recent historical precedent for governments doing exactly what was done in 2001-2002-2003- etc... They get no free ride here...
It is something... but mistake?
You really cannot believe that it is that sterile.. that simple....can you?
Although I do agree that after years of Bush being the colossal slab of shit for brains he is, that admitting a mistake and learning from them is indeed a step up... but it is not a real big one...
It is a normal one.
And that does not cut the mustard.
Taarak @ 30:
If you wait fourteen months to cast a vote, your choices will be SERIOUSLY limited. I would consider voting in the primary in your state if I was you.
I also have a utopian progressive fantasy that is a favorite of mine whereby, since we know that Bu$hCo will just pardon any of his cronies for anything they are busted for. We wait untill after the scumbag is out of office then we go after all of them.
It should be understood that there are two arguments going on here. One is about who would make the best President, the other is who would make the best candidate. Both are equally valid.
At this stage in the game, I would rather hear about the Presidential potential – and why. As the primaries are taking place, the political strategy becomes as important, and who might have the best chance to win should be taken into consideration. Until then, I will give the polls little consideration.
rduke, your passion is truly commendable. I really sense a connection to Rep. Kucinich and a genuine, to-the-core hope that he can somehow pull this off against all odds. Frankly, I would have no problem if he did.
Thing is, it's September. The first "polls that matter" are in four months, give or take. Your guy is going to need to cobble together, conservative guess, $10 mil. in the next four months so that a sufficient number of people who spend their days working way too hard and doing family stuff instead of haunting political blogs will even know his name. So far, he has raised $1.1 mil.
I know, I know: The people who don't know about him are the people he would help the most. (I think the same is true of Edwards.) The irony is so thick you could pour it over pancakes.
Edwards has a chance, although I wouldn't hazard a guess on how much of one. Best I can say for Kucinich is that he will need an unheard-of miracle. Say aliens showed up from the Crab Nebula, and they all looked like Dennis Kucinich, and they were vegans, and they made Bush stand out in the Rose Garden naked until he pulled the troops out of Iraq, and they brought along an awesome Led Zeppelin cover band that, like, totally tore the roof off the joint at all his rallies. I think he'd get a bounce out of that.
..and thanks irishamerican. I'll be sure to vote in my state's primary.
> “I’d rather vote for something I want and not get it, than vote for something I don’t want, and get it.” -Eugene Debs
Excellent quote.
> Best I can say for Kucinich is that he will need an unheard-of miracle.
Starship: Miricles -
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1VVtzQfAJzY
Stanley Rosenthal @ 86:
Hope springs eternal in the mind of the ideologue... just ask Bush his ideology triumphs over facts and historical precedent everytime! He even thinks we're winning in Iraq.
Truth be know Stanley, I was hoping for a Gore/Clark ticket based on their positions on the issues and the plans that they were advancing. They never entered the race, so I took the time to look at each candidate, their position statements, their implementation plans, their records, background and where their money is coming from and after due consideration... I'm backing Edwards.
As Robert Reich pointed out in this video on this site, Edwards has been driving the policy debate in this campaign and has set a standard that the other candidates will have to meet:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/02/george-will-doesnt-think-econom...
Further... his plans are smart and workable, especially his plan for health care, an issue that I'm very keen on just having spent the last four years of my life doing hospice care for my dad.
Edwards Gets it Right
By Paul Krugman
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020907E.shtml
I've spent the time to really investigate each of the candidates as I said earlier and after listening to Edwards I believe him to be honest, sincere and perhaps the only one who has a chance to stop the Clinton steam roller and her $60 million dollar lobbyist stuffed war chest.
Obama might, but his health care plan isn't universal, but he has gotten his cash form small contributors so he hasn't been bought. Both he and Edwards pledged not to accept lobbyist cash at the DKos convention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaAkcXynqLA&eurl=
Edwards, as Reich noted in that video link above has injected economic populism into this debate with his "two Americas theme" like nothing that has been seen in the last thirty years and for good reason... The economy is headed for the crapper and a recession seems imminent, the dollar is at a fifteen year low, jobs are in decline, wages are stagnate and the disparity between the rich and everyone else is approaching historic levels not seen since the 1920s! In fact the latest census shows that the only economic bracket to increase since the year 2000 was the top 5% income bracket... everyone else lost ground.
The number of Americans without health insurance has risen to 47 million as per the same recently published 2006 census and a recent study on the city of New York showed that on in six New Yorkers are with out health insurance because either they were rejected for prior existing conditions or because they simply can’t afford it and need the money to live. Half the personal bankruptcies in the country are due to a medical crisis in the family and 75% of those families had health insurance.
Families are struggling to keep pace with the health care costs, the price of gas, college tuitions that are increasing at 10% to 20% a year. More American families each year are finding that they are working harder, longer, at multiple jobs and they simply aren’t making it.
Edward's antipoverty campaign and his economic plans have gotten him the endorsements of the Steelworkers Union, the Miner Union, and the Carpenters Union. Organized labor is turning out for him as well as Silicon Valley and the high tech industries.
There really isn't an issue that he hasn't produced a credible, well thought out plan to address from climate change to civil liberties and yes... he has spoken out against the war now for quite a while in no uncertain terms.
I have no problems with folk that want to support Edwards for the Presidency. I think he'd make a great President. It's just that I think that Kucinich would make a better President.
And not only do I believe that "anything is possible", I believe in miracles. Not miracles fashioned by some supposed God, just miracles.
JE is right on the issues and has a strong campaign in place. Would love to see him win Iowa and shake things up.
However - although I liked the message and content of this ad, I was bothered by how they had him deliver it - with grins and smiles. Not congruent with the subject matter.
Senator Jack Reed's response was delivered much more appropriately. Forceful and direct. Lose the grins John.
I have decided that based on the logic that Kerry/Edwards WON their elections in 2004 and had them stolen, that honoring fair elections makes Edwards the de facto candidate to support in 2008. He was already elected, albeit as VP, and he should be allowed to serve.
Of course, one might think this opens the door for supporting Lieberman, but he has proven that he didn't belong on Gore's ticket, so he doesn't compare to Edwards' situation.
Edwards/Somebody is a ticket I can support. I would rather vote for Gore or Kerry, but Senator Edwards actually also won, and deserves my continued support.
kudos to Edwards
“...It is the ultimate standard of Idiot America: How does it play to Joe Six-Pack in the bar? At the end of August 2004, the Zogby people discovered that 57 percent of undecided voters would rather have a beer with George Bush than with John Kerry. Now, how many people with whom you've spent time drinking beer would you trust with the nuclear launch codes? Not only is this not a question for a nation of serious citizens, it's not even a question for a nation of serious drunkards.”
More here:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0207GREETINGS
I guess Democrats must purchase time to rebutt the Bush propaganda that is so eagerly "reported" for free.
Really, it is unbelievable that none of the major news anchors will follow Walter Cronkite's example when he said "Bullshit" about the Vietnam fiasco. How many times does Bush have to be wrong about Iraq before he is asked the question, "With your perfect record of failure, how do you expect anyone to follow you anymore?"
The fact is, there are over 20 Repug Senate seats up for election in 2008. Many of these Senators are retiring rather than face the voters' wrath. It is past time to put the remaining Repugs on record on the Iraq situtation. Force the phony fench sitters to vote for Bush's unending war. Give the voters a clear choice.
My heart just breaks everytime i see John Edwards, Al Gore or John Kerry. All of them are far superior to the monkeys in office right now.
And a big thanks for reminding the democrats that they are spineless too!
The US 2008 elections have a smorgasbord of quality candidates - Edwards, Clinton and Obama - that it's a shame only one of them can be President.
And the fact John is very good looking does not hurt one bit.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE - IMPEACH Bush, Cheney, (I sleep well at nights) Rumsfield, Rove and the rest of these wastes of space! Capital punishment is too good for them! Send them to Baghdad - WITHOUT the security!!!
Edwards has a brain which is a step in the right direction.
Hillery is ahead in all polls but mark my words; Hillery being elected President will do to the Democratic Party what Bush has done to Republicans.
Dennis is right for the Democratic job ahead and Ron Paul is right for the Republicans.
Neither are connected to the good old boy Elite Warmongers in Washington.
Donaldd @ 116:
Oh sure!!!. First, dear GOP friend, you must lean to change not only the name you post under but your writing style and syntax. Your use of many names in order to appear as having a movement behind you is belied by the consistent use of the same tenor and construction by all your pseudonyms. In any case. You aint gonna get your wet dream. K. is not going to be nominated, not even with your nifty tricks on board, and the GOP will not get that easy ride.
Edwards is like much of the American public: he believed Bush's lies. He has the courage to admit so, repent so and speak so. I can only hope the populace has the courage to look in their hearts and do the right thing to end this bad war (which is the worst American foreign policy blunder ever) and remove from power the worst, most arrogant, most ignorant and most incompetent administration (and their kool-aid drinking senators, congressmen and candidates) ever. Edwards speaks (hard) Truth to Power.
Edwards is not my first choice but I feel confident he would make a fine President. I always vote strategic in the primaries. If HC is leading the polls in my state I will vote for the #2 candidate.
I love this guy.
i hope he gets more support.
brilliant #6
BaScOmBe @ 5:
The only cowardess chichhawks are the reich-wing yellowbellied scum who started this debacle ! They love war as long as their lives are not jeopardized & they are profiting from our troopps heroisms !
Edwards got most of this right. The Congress is impotent. The president is delusional. We should stop funding of the War. I wish someone would sell this correctly and I can't be the only one thinking this. Tip this to Joe Biden who simply can't think himself out of the box. If we stop funding, it is because we want to put the lives of our boys in GW's hands. It's a no-brainer. Without funding, W must do 1 of 2 things. Bring our boys back or make them stay and get killed without adequate resources. WHY IS THIS SO HARD! We should be able to sell the fact that the only thing the Congress can do is withhold the money in an effort to bring the boys back home. The President hold the cards on weather they stay or not. Again, WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO SELL! ..................Unless they don't really want them home...
Indigowatcher @ 7:
What people fail to realize is that Obama and Hillary have just about the same amount of experience. You cannot count being "first lady" as political experience. Next time someone tells you "oh well Obama lacks experience," remind them that so does Hillary.
And just because Edwards made the mistake for voting for this war (like many democrats), he was FOOLED by the Bush Administration with "slam-dunk" intelligence. I like Edwards, Obama, and Kucinich (in no particular order).
How about a compromise? Edwards/Kucinich '08 !
I think Kucinich should do what Nader should've done in '00. He should negotiate with the other candidates, and agree to throw his support behind the one who is willing to adopt the largest number of his platforms. DK can't win a national election, but if he can get Edwards to move toward more populist and sensible positions and win the election, everybody wins.
Onward with Edwards-----He, like alot of Americans were 'duped' by a dope , so to speak----he then realized this was a 'reich-wing' CON-JOB not a legitimate & justified war ---'Duh'bya's gang is sucking our treasury dry as we speak---as long as these filthy 'con'servatives don't have to jeopardize their lives or their priviledged children's lives, then BRING THEM ON-------they are the yellowbellied,chickenhawk, whimpish, cowards we know them to be----IMPEACH THE GOP & LET AMERICA BE AMERICA AGAIN ! ! ! 911 was a reich-wing inside job ! Please visit one of following sites & think for yourselves...............
www.reopen911.org
www.911eyewitness.com
www.patriotsquestion.com
www.911PressForTruth.com
www.whatreallyhappened.com
as one of the posters said id rather vote for an honest man and loose if i must then vote for more of the same , clintons a republican, allways was allways going to be, more of the same , obammas never going to get enough votes to elect him , first obammas a one speach wonder and hes black, saying that im not a raceist, im a realist , its not possible to elect a wet behind the ears black politician in america and i doubt that time will ever come, im voteing my for the man whos for what i believe in , dennis kucinich, that this election will be stolen once again i have no doubt ,they allready have it fixed , at least if kucinich gets screwed by fraudulent voteing hell fight the thieves unlike kerry who saw he was robbed and threw in the towel rather then fight the vote fixing pricks, we cant afford to let another election be stolen , its get an honest election or fight in our streets ,
Giving your primary vote to Kucinich will be like giving your vote to a Nadar like candidate. In a just world Kucincih would have a chance but not now. Voting for Kucinch will dilute the Edwards vote and It will leave Obama and Hillary and that aint gonna do the democratic party any good right now. Do yourselves a favor and read Edwards platform which most progressives believe has set out the best plans for the country. Solid, logical, and possible platforms that don't pander. Don't waste your vote on Kucinich.
Mike Sitco @ 129:
its not a waste , vote kucinich 08
do yourself a favor , if edwards is so smart why did he believe bush and give him a proxy to go to war, crap even im smarter then edwards!
My vote is the only card I have to play. One truth the rove respects is polling numbers. I'll give 'em a Royko every chance I get. Move the odds around. Keep them reeling. If you show 'em your cards, they'll put people into a neat little box to be manipulated into situations like the Iraq vote.
edwards is finally agreeing with ultra-k?
"principles don't change"
when edwards at the chance to stick up for what was right, he went with what was politically safe.
when DK was 31 and standing up to man (CEI), he didn't back down, he lost his mayoralship because of it but he did what was right. he stuck up for the american people!
my conscience can only vote for DK.
-s
John Edwards admits he made a mistake. Only a person of character would do this. He put his voice on record last night more than anyone else. He has my family's vote. He can defeat the REpublicans and win. So why doesn't the MSM give him any credit? I wonder why? VOTE EDWARDS TO CHANGE AMERICA!
It looks like Edwards read Ted Rall this week. At least SOMEONE gets it....
http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/
The only way Dems and Repubs will get it is if they think they will lose votes. Edwards obviously feels that he can get more votes if we pull out of Iraq now. I think he's right.
I'm sure Edwards didn't like the idea of voting for the Iraq war, but he has seen the light and changed his mind. I think that's a good thing. Sure, you and me and a lot of America were against the War from the beginning. I'm no "expert" but I was smart enough to see through all the BS, even if most of Congress didn't. I really doesn't know what that says. Still, they did what they thought was right at the time and they will have to live with that, as they should. It looks like Edwards regrets it. It doesn't look like Hillary does (yet). I like Kucinich too, and I will vote for him in the Primary, but it's a step in the right direction that a higher profile candidate has seen the light on Iraq. Don't diss Edwards for this, it showed a lot of guts to do this. Now if Hillary and Obama can show some cahones as well.
One more thing before I go... there is no such thing as a wasted vote. Thinking like that is what keeps this country in the stranglehold of our two-party, electoral college system.
John Edwards would make a fine president. He's rich now? So what? News flash: every political on the national stage is rich. That criticism doesn't mean shit. He admitted his mistake about voting for the war? Great, at least somebody can.
Unlike Kucinich, Edwards actually does stands a chance of getting the nomination. Sorry, it's true. I see a lot of fantasy going on in this thread. Wishing Kucinich could go the distance doesn't make it so. Gotta be realistic here. And unfortunately, I suspect it's pre-ordained that Hillary is the candidate. (Have you noticed how nice the mainstream media has gotten when talking about her of late?)
I think the Republican party is scared shitless of a populist like Edwards - sounds like a good reason to support him.
Stanley Rosenthal @ 29:
Well, I hope not too many have that same brilliant strategy or you will all be voting for Shillary in the general election. God help us.
Simon White-Thatch Potentlloins @ 138:
Agreed!
Dr. Acula @ 140:
bullshit!
I like Edwards best.....after Kucinich.
Apple @ 142:
agreed
U.S. National Interest in Iraq left Undefended?
.
We and the Brits have left the oil rich part of Iraq and its vital international port for shipments, i.e. the most important part of Iraq, to Iranian influenced warring bands of Shiites.
Elsewhere our troops are attacked one hundred and seventy five times a day.
(177.8 attacks a day/ 5m times a month on troops Reuters 7.20.07)
What in the holy christ are we exactly doing there? Defending the contractors in non National Interest territory???
If we're staying in Iraq in such force to defend the Emerald Palace when we've already lost control over most areas of strategic interest, that's like getting a boob job with the last of your cash when the Doc says you've got cancer.
--cognitorex blogspot--
QuakerDave @ 4:
Gosh Dave, I wish I had your moral purity. Kind of intolerant for a Quaker, aren't you?
Edwards/Kucinich in '08. That's a solid ticket, imo.
hello @ 146:
kucinich edwards sounds better!
"Where was this John Edwards when the Senate was voting to give this president the authorization to start this slaughter?
Oh, yeah. That’s right. He was voting for it."
Yup...he was LIED TO like the rest of us. At that time we really had little reason to believe that Bush & Co. were the incredible liars they turned out to be. There is NOTHING wrong with changing your mind about an issue after you learn that your previous beliefs were based on lies. Adherence to your original position in spite of learning the truth is just plain STUPID, which Edwards is NOT.
capnmike @ 148:
tell that to all the dead
Edwards probably has the better chance of getting votes on his name and appeal though next election. After his eight glorious years of resetting America on the right and proper course and bringing honor, respect and open government back to the Oval Office, Dennis would be a cinch to win the elections in '16 and '20.
Always the optimist here ;-)
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