Gen. Wesley Clarke endorses Hillary Clinton
By John Amato Friday Sep 14, 2007 10:02pm
In the midst of what promises to be an extended back and forth between Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) over the war in Iraq, the Democratic frontrunner rolled out an endorsement from retired General and 2004 presidential candidate Wesley Clark today.
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I'll go along with that
Not Hillary, please, Mr. Clark. Choose anyone but.
Bush's and the Clintons. Marking the 32 year American dictatorship.
Wes you no longer have any relevance for me. Looking to be Secretary of State?
A Hillary Clinton nomination is the only thing that could motivate the right-wing's disillusioned base, and actually bring them out to the polls. She's the only Democratic candidate that could lose. Couple that fact with her decidedly corporate, DLC politics and I fail to see her appeal.
Nominate Hillary Clinton and you risk everything, for a chance to gain nothing.
Here is the email I sent to General Clark's campaign.
Liebermannesque is what I'd have to call this reverse field from a man whom I once considered a progressive.
Not too shocking, he's been a FOB for years... he's clearly warming up for VP or Secretary of Defense, State, what have you.
AbbeyHoffmansGhost @ 4:
Prolly Sec. of Defense where he can continue in Rummy's footsteps and line his pockets.
Yall think I'm jiving with the whole VP thing, but just wait...she needs a military counterpart to sell.
Meet your next Secretary of Defense.
No surprise there that Clark is behind a fellow DLC'er. If hillary does win the nod I hope she at least picks Clark as her running mate. That will go a long way to making her more palatable imho.
joe @ 3:
36 years. Bush the 1st reigned for four years. All the others are the new standard of 8 year reigns.
Any credibility he ever had in my eyes just got flushed down the toilet! I wouldn't vote for her if she was the only name on the ballot. Kucinich is the only candidate who listens to what the people want. Seems Clark wants more of the same old crap that we have been putting up with that is destroying the middle class and killing the poor who can't afford to live any longer.
HE WANTS A CABINET POSITION, PEOPLE!!!!
He, like many, sees her nomination as inevitable, and he wants a job!!!!
Just like our other celebraties, Wes is hoping to make more off product endorsements than he did in his regular career.
Please not Hillary, To many deep frames set for the Right to activate!
Keep 'em home and elect the Super Majority in '08!!
justabill @ 11:
I heard that Wes was the VP nom no matter who won, Edwards, Obama or Hillary.
Wow, how could he do this after she voted for the war? This just proves we need all new leadership..I'm going with Obama ...............I'm sick of people with no scruples
Want scruples? - vote Dennis - the man cannot be bought - is highly principled - and the most progressive of the lot.
While I agree that I'd much rather see Clark as the presidential nominee ... holy shit. I'd have to find a right-wing blog to find half the hate for Hillary as on this blog.
I also agree that Hillary will mobilize the right wing of the GOP. But what all of the whiny lefties don't realize is that if only the moderates and the left could mobilize and organize behind any democratic candidate with the same loyalty as seen on the right, we would walk away with a win in '08.
Instead, the lefties will whine about how she's no better. Then they'll vote for the republicans (via their vote for a third party candidate). She's no better? Horse shit. This group of neo-cons has brought America as close to 1930's Germany as I hope it ever gets. She's no better? That's just fucking ridiculous. Any democrat ... any democrat ... will be an improvement over the neo-facism of the past 8 years.
But as I've been saying, if the GOP pulls out a win in '08, it will be the loony left that gives it to them with their "principles". And don't give me that "I'm what's wrong with America" bullshit either. I'm a pragmatist. I'd love to see change in American politics. But it's not coming before November of 2008. And Ralph Nader, or whoever will be the douche du jour for '08, won't be the ones bringing it.
But go ahead and vote off your nose to spite your face. In January '09, if you're in here bitching about a president Ghoulliani, or Thompson, or fill in the blank with your favorite nightmare, then all I'll have to say to you is, "You wanted it this way."
Satan Himself @ 9:
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Do you really think you're the first person to contemplate Wes Clark as the VP?? Duh. Of course that's what's going on. Anymore revelations, captian obvious?
Let's not forget, he was pushed into the 2004 campaign as a counterweight to Howard Dean by the DLC political class. It's pretty sad it seems we don't have a family other than the Bushes and Clintons who seem capable of serving as the leader of this nation. We might as well be Saudia Arabia. Even more importantly, let's look at the state of America when we put our blinders on and pick candidates by name recognition. And for those who support Hillary hoping to get Bill back in the WH, think about what Bill did to help further the rise of Corporate power and the continued fall of workers/human rights. Just to name two of his biggest failures: 1. The 1996 Telecommunications Act, and 2. NAFTA. Need I say more. Elect Hillary and her DLC advisers, and we will get more of the same. We Americans have derserved what we have gotten because we have lost sight of what Democracy means, and have let our consumerism/greed devour our civic responsibility. If there were ever a time we need to really re-establish our civic responsibilities, now is the time. I have great respect for Wes Clark, but the rhetoric he espoused in the 2004 campaign of economic and social justice will not be realized by the candidate he now endorses. The only question left now is will the voters, once again, let the Washington establishment pick our candidate, or will we do our due diligence and choose the right candidate. If we let Washington continue to tell us who to vote for, we should not complain when that candidate does the beltway's bidding. And sadly, Hillary Clinton is the establisment candidate. I would love to think she would be her own person, but after the past 30 years or so, I can't. Nor should anyone else. Don't let the dream of reaching a historical milestone continue to damn ours and our kids futures.
Down payment for a VP slot, eh Wes?
Kucinich for me. Hillary is a phoney and Clark just proved himself a phoney as well. Phooey to him.
I never liked him much either.
PurplePatriot @ 20:
YUP!
I agree with Dennis, both Obama and Clinton are bought and paid for by the corporate. The media put up their tritefull shot at Hillary and Barrack, but then promote them to be the favor base on what???? Nothing!!!!
Dennis wins polls after polls, but barely get mention in the media. So what do you think the media wants you to think?
I don't know about you guys, but I am no going to let the media decide who should win, after they decided that we should go to war. I am tired of their decision when it's our country and our decision that should count.
PurplePatriot,
Take a few deep breaths (about 20). I don't like Hillary. I don't want Hillary. Probably she would be better than any of the Repugs, but that isn't saying much.
But if she is the winner of the primary, then I will vote for her. I will hold my nose, down a few glasses of scotch and hope they still let me into the voting booth. But I'll vote for her.
Wow. I am not a Hillary supporter (yet) but the amount of ignorance in these comments about Clark and what he stands for is staggering. Just knee-jerk, non credible reactions.
For instance, A. Citizen, Clark has no "campaign." So I think you're just pimping your own web site. He does, however have a PAC, http://securingamerica.com/ where all his work is on tap and discussed.
Reading this editorial Clark wrote for Sunday's Washington Post would be educational:
http://tinyurl.com/2uydhv
Donald Strong @ 22:
right on kucinich08
paranoia @ 27:
I'd agree with you if I thought that your convictions would lead to a true revolution that would give the country back to the people, instead of the billionaires.
But unfortunately, if the extent of your protest will be to nullify your vote, then you're not taking the country back. You're leaving it in the hands of social nazis. We need to undo the horrors of the past 8 years before we can undo the injustices of the American political system of the past 225 years.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Democratic ticket.
Yikes.
no more Bush/Clinton!
Otay @ 28:
Good for you brother. That's really all we need to get started on any chance of undoing the horror of the Cheney regime.
Sugarcoated torture, ain't it sweet? Your endorsement of Ms. Clinton doesn't exactly strike a sympathetic chord with me, Wes.
moveing america forward by replaceing one corporation whore with another shilleryobamma!
tyree @ 36:
You're right. We will be replacing one corporate shill for another. And you're also right that we'll be moving America forward. Not all corporations are the same. Some provide health care and at least try to have a positive social impact during their quest for profit. Others start wars, use slave labor, and treat people as disposable resources during their quest for profit.
So, yes, you are correct on both of your points.
What a shame... If America wants to fix these problems and reclaim our government we should elect Kucinich, not Hillary Clinton! That woman is as bought-out as they come, and she doesn't fear the American people. Anyway, it's a shame that America will be duped into electing Hillary Clinton, ensuring another 8 years of corporate rule.
Anyone who thinks Hillary is no better than the Republicans is living in a dream world. A lot of people made the same claim about Gore in 2000, and a bunch of them voted for Nader as a protest vote. How's that "statement" look in hidnsight?
Hillary isn't strong enough on some key issues, sure. But can anyone look at the Bush administration and its enablers in Congress and say Hillary is no better? Get real. Even if you think Big Dog was too much of a corporatist, you have to acknowledge that his policies (including TAX CUTS!!! Oooga booga booga!) helped usher in the most genuinely prosperous period in recent US history -- and it was a prosperity that was shared ACROSS THE BOARD.
Bush - Clinton, Bush -Clinton, gag me with a spoon. I used to respect Clark. Not anymore
spit take @ 39:
============
Ok, I hear ya, and I agree, but Kucinich is SOO much better for the job of President than Hillary Clinton, trust me.
Oops. Sorry. I meant "TAX HIKES Oooga Booga Booga!"
Curtilingus @ 12:
Actually..
It can be argued that Bush the first reigned for 12 years...
Raygun was shot... lobotomized.. and VP bush pulled the strings.
If you play the Trivial pursuit political edition and are asked which Presidents have served 3 terms... if you don't include bush 1... you get the question wrong. :D
..
Anyway..
I don't give a shit who comes out and endorses hillary... Even if General Smedly Butler rises from the grave...she is not getting my vote.
No amount of scotch... crack... or model airplane glue will budge that.
So just think about how many votes you guys lose by supporting her...
For fucks sake I would vote Bush in for a 3rd term before I vote for her... as it has obviously not gotten bad enough to wake up the idiots.
I just hope Clark gets at least a Cabinet position out of this.
A.Citizen @ 8:
Clark isn't a war profiteer.
spit take - what a ringing endorsement of Hillary!!!! We can do better.
Ohio Proud @ 16:
I plan not to vote for her in the nomination stage, and for her VP in the General election.
Indigowatcher @ 41:
Hell, I think that I would be a better president than any of these assholes. But my chances of winning the presidency are mathematically insignificantly no different that Kucinich.
Thinking Person @ 29:
Knee Jerks abound on the internet.
the democratic partys not the democratic party anymore it been infiltrated by republicans in democrat clothes, and thier not going to give the constitution back to its people , power corrupts and they corrupted us too, thiers no profit in peace and politicians collect huge sums off war, then thiers this to consider , when this wars over and we cant afford a large army wheres the vets going to find a job , these pricks both dems and repigs have allowed our manufacturing to be shipped out of this country , we cant have a bunch of homeless and broke vets roaming our streets thats one of the things these politicians will consider when asked to end this war, they got you by the ass , might as well vote your idea of what a real and honest man should look like and thats dennis kucinich! go for broke they are going to rig the elections anyway!
rduke @ 43:
Holy shit. Just when I think I've heard the stupidest--and scariest--thing I've ever heard. Wow. Wow.
Right here is where Conservatives have the advantage over liberals.
If Conservatives candidate of choice isn't ahead they groumble and continue supporting their candidate.
If liberals candidate of choice isn't winning a conspiracy is afoot!
Think I wandered onto a Republican website-holy crap=This is a scary place- Lies and spin- Having worked with Wes Clark in New Hampshire I can tell you that he's the real deal- He has the most genuine love of country since my dad (who landed on the beach of Normandy in WWII) Such angry, vile people here- You've learned a lot from the far right-shame-shame.
[Thanks for your concern-and while I'm at it-thank you ALL for your concern. This thread is SWIMMING in it-Sitemonitor]
Menemsha @ 53:
Heeeeeeey. I love Wes. I'm heart broken that I'm going to have to scrape my "Clark in '08" bumpersticker off.
Menemsha @ 53:
Amen. This country may even have a chance if Wes is our next VP. Your Dad fought to defeat people just like GWB, Dick Cheney, and the ministry of propaganda (Fox, Limbaugh, Coulter, et al.)
Though I am solidly liberal and took great issue with Hillary's Iraq vote, I am pretty grossed out by the posts here. The vile attacks against both the Clintons and Clark are worthy of Faux News.
General Clark is a great asset to our party and our country. Hillary has made her compromises, but she is a smart, solid FEMALE (what the hell happened to the feminists?) center-left candidate who is on the right side of the issues, but is realistic and has developed incredible political skills in the last 15 years.
Yeah, you need political skill to survive in the White House. Deal with it.
And stop being such pussies about how much the Republicans hate her. Registered republicans are 35% and registered Dems are 50%. She is going to do quite well in the General election, despite the spineless quivering of the Democrats, including the posters on this blog.
She has suffered the worst of the Right-Wing attack machine and she is still standing. Obama, Kucinich, and the others will get tarred and smeared just like Hillary did, but they haven't yet developed the elephant hide to deal with it.
I always vote for the smartest and strongest candidate and I have never regretted my vote.
I'm voting for Hillary and I hope she picks Clark for VP.
And I won't regret that vote either.
I never misread this warhawk. His support for hillary is a sure sign that he loves war and he's an insider. He'll protif handsomely by coddling the anticipated next president, that is, if the msm can
continue torailroad/fool the voters.he has always supported war. he has simply been pretending to be selective.
Tim @ 56:
Preach it, my brother! Testify! I think we've identified a new movement needed in America. Don't let the left give the country to the right!
i used to like this guy!! not anymore!!
PurplePatriot @ 20:
So, the DLC people are real.
For a long time I thought Clinton supporters were fake, turns out they are just cowards hiding behind "pragmatism." You guys know that Clinton is the only Dem running that can lose right?
Edwards - only guy who can get the south
Obama - most donors
Dodd - nameless Democrats beat Repubs every time
Kucinich - he is feisty and his wife is hot, I think he has the fight in him.
Richardson - nameless Democrat + experience bonus.
The pragmatic / establishment choice did not win in 2004. Remember that.
Clinton brings with her all the DLC establishment political advisers who waffle and wave in the wind instead of using principles to inspire the base. Look at how Bush / Rove won, they played to the base and never lost face with a waffling answer. They won. Hillary will not do that, she cackles and sidesteps through tough questions. And she defends being a lobbyist whore. She is the only candidate with a past that can hurt her. All the other guys are borderline blank slates.
PurplePatriot @ 58:
no need to worry about it one way or another ,if the elections not rigged then the corporations who hillerys kitty will get he elected ,one way or another they will shove hillery down our throuts!
Jason Wolfe @ 60:
Weird thing is in every poll I've seen Hillary beats the Republican Candidate.
The only one who ties with her is Rudy.
Very, very disappointing.....
I hope Al see's the need to throw his hat in.
I live deep in redcounty oc cali, and have many Repub clients that are saying
they would vote for Al over anyone from either party.
Gore/Obama 08
57BaScOmBe Says:
correction: protif = profit
Jason Wolfe @ 60:
I don't necessarily disagree with you ... or agree with you. My biggest point is that if Hillary gets the nomination, it will not be the super-organized right that will cause her to lose. It will be the asshole left who refuse to vote for her because she is not their ideal, rainbows and unicorns, candidate.
I'd actually love to see Edwards get the nomination. But if he doesn't, I'm not going to cry into my bong water and piss and moan about all of the conspiracies and then vote for some homeless guy who wants to legalize pot just to protest and show everyone how truly liberal I am.
The horrors of the past 8 years, and of the social neo-nazi movement is bigger than one person. And you're wrong that Hillary is the only dem who can lose. They can all lose. The republican machine is just that good. Never in a million years should GWB have won a second term. So you are right that their machine is brutally efficient. Just don't lull yourself into thinking that it won't gear up for anyone but Hillary. It will be ready to go against anyone.
Right...
How oblivious you people are to the issues facing our species?
Its ok Jelly bones... what could possibly happen in 4 more years that is not going to happen anyway????
Thats fine... Although another 4 years of Heir Bush would go along way into furthering the Democraps into solidifying their backbones...
You never listen to the conscience... You fail to allow the heart and brain communicate...
Open the peepers... hit the emergency brake... and wake up.
You think were not going to be continuing the war?
You think the wars are not going to escalate?
You think Iraq is the end?
You think the OIL supply is unlimited?
You think our way of life can be sustained without it?
You think Hillary, Obama and their corporate masters are the ones that will be able to turn this ship around??
You are going to get the Government you deserve.
Otay @ 2:
help me understand this:
A-Clark opposes and criticizes the Iraq war.
B-Hillary votes for and to fund WAR.
C-Clark endorses Hillary Clinton.
Something doesnt seem right with that logic. It just doesnt.
CD @ 62:
So Hillary is tied with the worst the repugs have to offer. that is more fuel for my NO DLC mantra. the 'centrist' garbage is for LIEberman dems.
BaScOmBe @ 64:
Dude. No need to post corrections to spelling. We all knew what you meant. Hell, if posting spelling corrections were needed, there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to support all of Tyree's corrections.
rduke @ 66:
Jelly bones ... hee hee. Jelly ass, jelly gut, I'm pretty much jelly all the way around.
By the way, what is your inspired, genius idea to change the country? Because what you're talking about eradicating won't be eradicated by one person, president or not.
PurplePatriot @ 69:
thats the worst part about my daddy not haveing enough money to send me to grade school, dam i hate that!
Jason Wolfe @ 60:
the points you make are the ones ignored by the centrist's concern trolls here. just like hillary, they are 'concerned' with all the msm polling and don't really have a position on anything, but are willing to give your vote to someone who will continue the repug/DLC tradition of selling you and your country down the tubes for lobbyist money, speaking fees and campaign contributions.
When Rupert Murdoch openly endorsed Hillary, I knew the fix was in. The whiners here seem to have missed that salient point.
tyree @ 71:
:lol:
Look! I'm trying to be serious here. :lol:
tyree @ 71:
Thanks for the laugh. :D I kid. It's all in love, my brother.
PurplePatriot @ 65:
The repugs want hillary because she's the easiest to attack. That's why murdoch supports her.
BaScOmBe @ 72:
Gee. You've suddenly changed my mind. You're right. If Hillary gets the nomination, I think we should all vote republican. I've finally seen the light. Thanks Bascombe.
me too! hell every body i knew with a great educations dead!
CD @ 62:
Funny thing is ... When I take a casual poll of all the people I know... Which is a pretty sizable hunk of friends and acquaintances if I do say so, well over a 100... There are NONE that support her, and I have friends in all categories, even a couple of Republicans (who SALIVATE at the thought of her running--BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD SHE IS FOR 12 YEARS!!)...
Most of them are Liberal... Democrats.. and Libertarians with a few Anarchists tossed in.. (if you think Anarchists are bomb throwers.. you are too stupid to breath, go jump off a bridge)
When I get a poll call from --- someone unidentified but certainly coming from the democratic side... The nice lady gets to the question of which 3 candidates do I support for president...
I tell her Kucinich, but I need two more... I say to her that I took a poll test and Edwards came up closest to my ideal after that so I said Edwards for number two...
Then she asks for my third, and tries to lead me into saying Hillary... which I obviously reacted abhorrently too, so much so that she apologized as she knew what she did was a tad off proper.
Thing is, I am well aware that I am not like most people..
Most people would hear Hillary.. or even say Hillary because that is what they are told .. or that is who they hear is THE WINNER!... everyone likes a Winner, and is attracted to excitement... no matter how fake and hollow it is, thats why Car dealerships put balloons and shiny streamers on their vehicles and have radio stations do live remote broadcasts on location... because it attracts the suckers.
I mean ...
Ideally who would you want to have as president out of who the candidates are .. and what they support and all the rest???
Just saying... Who ever you pick will be the nominee no matter what, and a Democratic candidate will win no matter what.. (because in reality Bush has fucked up that bad)
Which one on the issues??
Which one takes the country into the direction we need to go??
tyree @ 77:
GWB has an MBA from Yale (or wherever ... I don't care enough to google it). 'Nuff said.
The deal is set. It was the Clinton crowd that organized Clark to enter the race in late '04 to counter Dean and this is payback. This would also make it very possible that Clark becomes the VP candidate once Clinton is annoin..uhm nominated.
rduke @ 78:
That reminds me of a stunning documentary I saw recently on IFC called "The Bridge". Amazing.
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Bridge/70059028?trkid=203955
And I truly hope you are right that any democrat will win. Because I thought that should have been the case in 2004.
And the Rupert Murdoch support should be the first smell to warn you that she is a rotten trap...
Unless you think every day is fresh new one.. a different toss of the dice, and no plans made in the morning...survive the next sunrise.
No wonder the Democrats can't take the White House. Listen to you people. Shouldn't all that venom be directed at the Repub. candidates?? Come ON!
cetylovx @ 80:
Wow ... now that you've laid it all out so brilliantly, I can see it now. It's all a big cabal. You're right. My God! What will we do now? It's all lost. I'm moving to Venezuela.
Judy @ 83:
Thanks for stepping up and saying what finally needed to be said, Judy.
I have a visceral reaction toward Hillary. When she comes on the TV, I turn the station. When she talks, I mute the remote.
I feel the same way about her that I do about most politicians.
I don't trust her. I want to, but I just don't believe what she says.
Everything is calculated with, aiming to enhance her political power.
Triangulation, as Morris taught them.
I do, however, listen to Obama, Edwards or any of the others.
Hillary, no thanks, I do not trust you for one second.
PurplePatriot @ 85:
judy were just tossing out the rotten fuit from the basket,lighten up the elections in 08 not tommorow
Just got an email from the Kucinich campaign that he is being left out of two Iowa forums, even though he is moving up in the polls...and then Clark backs Hil.
Is it just me or does this suck! I don't mind a good fight and niether does Dennis, but how can a democracy exclude candidates?
Dennis is a Congressman! Not some perot, i got lots of money, of Edwards, I sure look good even though I'm not in office. He is a Freakin Congressman running for President and they want to exclude him.
Remember what Edwards and Hillary were caught talking about at the other forum...we ahve to figure out a way to exclude these...pesky candidates from our coronation.
I am just a little heart sick today and this didn't help.
OT...saw a beautiful Kucinich video of Dennis comforting a protester who had fallen from the heat. He got back out of his car, with his wife and they rushed to his side and stayed until the medics arrived. It made me proud of my Candidate and sad for all the rest.
Bush would have backed over the poor guy!
it is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!
PurplePatriot @ 20:
After the primary, it's us against the repugs. Until then we're practicing our hooks and jabs each fighting for the dem candidate we see as best for the country. I don't want Hillary but I think Wes Clark makes her more palatable. I like the guy and I can't see him going along with any preemptive wars or even agreeing to continue this one. I trust his military judgment.
spit take @ 39:
ummmmmm yah ok.....but has anyine out there heard what allen greenspan has siad tonight
Curtilingus @ 12:
You people need to get back to school and go through remidial math ... if Senator Clinton becomes President for 8 years, it would only make a total of 28 years:
Bush.41 - 4 years
Clinton.42 - 8 years
Bush.43 - 8 years
Clinton.44 - 8 years
So, General Clark took all that military experience, looked at the candidates, and decided Hillary Clinton was the best choice.
Nope - not buying it.
I can understand how this might be in his best interest, but that's where this one ends..
rduke @ 82:
Sooooo if a guy at a bar buys me a drink that means I have to sleep with him?
PurplePatriot @ 81:
I have seen that, .... as well as I had my most valued and respected adult friend commit suicide on us last Thanksgiving..
Pretty sad stuff.
I said that any democrat will win... in the context of a frame work for a hypothetical to draw out the responses as to... "Well sure you will say Hillary .. but if any could win... then who do you choose?"
I think it is highly unlikely that the GOP will retain the white house this cycle...
But with them.. you never know.
I tell you one thing... if Hillary does get it.. all it does in my mind is solidify what Chomsky said about the Republicans being the A team .. and the Dems being the B team.. the A team gets things to hot.. so the B team is brought in...
Personally what ever person is president is inheriting a gigantic shit pie.. so big that they will most likly not be RE-elected...
And then we get to have JEB Bush...
Yeah.... (puke)
When Hillary wins the election, can we officially declare our country an aristocracy? Hell, why don't we go ahead and line up the next two presidents. I call Jeb in 2012 and Chelsea in 2020.
Or maybe we can vote someone who doesn't belong to either family, but may instead do something good for the country. Just a thought. Maybe if everyone would vote for Kucinich in the primaries? Ever thought of that?
Btw, has Wes ever said the war was illegal or wrong in any way, or has he just said that it was 'handled incompetently'?
I just don't see the Republicans talking so vicious about all their candidates. They save those remarks for US! We just always seem so divided! For myself, I like Hillary. and I liked her husband as President. but it's early. I've got a lot of time to decide. Someone will stick their foot(feet?) in their mouth before next Fall and the field will dwindle.
#88-
Well said. What Dennis K. said- "To vote for the lesser of the two evils is to still vote for an evil"- could apply to H. Clinton. She is a hawk in sheep's clothing who is bought and paid for by corporate interests.
#95-Navyswan
Very well said.
CD @ 62:
But all the other candidates beat Guiliani without tying him.
Strawberry @ 93:
Oh Darlin...
IF a guy like Rupert Murdoch buys you a drink... You have already slept with him.
PurplePatriot @ 76:
:lol: stop! I told you I was trying to be serious! :lol:
rduke @ 100:
THAT was nasty.
Wes Clark can endorse her if he wants to, that's his business. For me, there is no way in hell I'm voting for that Joe Lieberman with tits - none!
So many people who tell everyone else not to pay attention to the MSM are awfully damn quick to believe the MSM when it comes to Mrs. Clinton.
There's a word for you - "hypocrite"
I gave a friend with inside the beltway connections and she told me last month that Clark will be Hillary's VP - knowing I was a Clark supporter and loathe Hillary as a candidate, she wanted to know if that would be enough to get me to vote for her ... it's not.
ever notice shillery gets a wierd flash with her eyes like stupiditys set in!
moondancer @ 23:
Well, of course that's the case--is anyone on this site really surprised ?
Typical Billary political move--and don't forget folks--James Carville IS in the background, providing major assists, if not calling a lot of shots.
http://www.wolvesbook.com/
...y'know...
"Impeachment is off the table." -Nancy Pelosi
there must be some reason.
so yeah, the fix is in, deep in, fer a lonnng time now...
...but then again, america never really was a 'democracy' in the first place, wuzzit? gore vidal said that, and he was right...
the genie of liberty for all, all as john locke saw all, sovereignty of the individual and all that, is out of the bottle. tha's the authoritarian's conundrum. and it will be fully realized some day. just not in our lifetimes.
http://zuma.theprawn.com/declaration.mp3 [patti smith]
"Ok, I hear ya, and I agree, but Kucinich is SOO much better for the job of President than Hillary Clinton, trust me."
I agree with that, and I would put Edwards on the short list as well. Obama's greatest credential is that he was smart enough to recognize that this Iraq war idea was a bad idea indeed.
That said, if Hillary is the candidate, well, a half a loaf is better than none. No matter what, we can not afford a Republican for another 4 years, if only for the judgeships. Hillary is the most bought off Democrat as far as the health industry is concerned, in order to turn National Health into a subsidy for the insurance companies, as opposed to single-payer, a distinction that the corporate media would like to obscure. Hillary is a free-trade advocate despite massive trade deficits occurring year after year, as the Republicans are, an issue that the Corporate and FCC owned/regulated media also wants buried.
The Democrats/DLC seem comfortable in their half-loaf position as they know in 2008, the alternative is no loaf at all. I guess if I'm stuck, I'll vote for ½ loaf. But, united we stand, divided we fall, so if any change is to be made, it must be made within the Democrat party.
Wes, say it ain't so!
I'm tired of hearing those that say "I'd never vote for Hillary." If (and when) she gets the nomination, I hope these people change their mind. Otherwise, they'll deserve the next 8 years of Republicans screwing things up, the Supreme Court tilting further to the right and 8 more years of Iraqi war and our next war with Iran. Personally, whomever is the Democratic nominee, I'm voting for that person. It doesn't matter if that person was my candidate or one I said 'no way' too from the beginning.
spit take @ 39:
Right, across the board. I remember when the Clintons were in power, almost no-one was poor, and there was health care for everyone. Get real too. Hillary uses the same talking points as the republicans. She says she would go to war again and do it "better". Problem is the war, not the way you do it.
The Bush Administration is worse, wow big deal. I'm better than Bush, do I get to run the country in 2008 ? Just vote Hillary OUT when the democratic primaries are there. She's a corporate whore, she's an elitist like most politicians.
Zuma @ 108:
The United States was a republic (the founding fathers had scarcely heard of democracy except as a radical movement among common people in European revolutions) until Andrew Jackson pushed through universal manhood suffrage. Then the democracy ended with the Industrial Revolution and the rise of the Robber Barons. The Democrats--the conservative people who had rebelled--lost their political power. The Robber Barons bought Congressmen and they have controlled the federal government in this country ever since.
Remember, when you think, well, gotta vote Hillary even though she is only 1/2 of what I want cause Gouliani is an outer space monster, there are consequences in swing states.
We are true blue lefties, who will vote Dem no matter what. But to people who are on the fence, fielding a candidate that your true blues are iffy about means YOU LOSE THE ELECTION.
What I don't look forward to is Bill back in the White House.
Just shoot me!
And it won't take long for a story about Bill to surface, true or false, it won't matter.
It will steal the airwaves - and put us right back to where we were in the late 90's, when even Olberman walked off the job, disgusted by months of Lewinsky non-stop coverage.
If she is the nominess I will disengage from politics, just like I did before.
My passion will be gone, and I'll be forced to wait until the next election, or the next.
And let's not forget, it was Bill's reckless behavior that brought us George Bush, (who would bring integrity back to the White House)
Cat Atomic @ 5:
Hillary Clinton is actually polling very high among Republican women and she has a larger overall poll number than Guliani or any Republican. In fact, her numbers are twice as high. Read the polls.
SFnomad @ 111:
I'm also tired of people saying "You gotta get your hands dirty if you want some change."
HEY. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THE DEMOCRATS BEEN ELECTED ? HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY RUN THE COUNTRY ? HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU GUYS GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY ? (sorry for the caps)
Surely, a lot of times.
Did that bring anything like change ? NO.
And what happens when a democrat runs the country ? Same bullcrap, no change. Same rhetoric no change. Democrats DON'T PUSH for the left causes.
You want change ? Don't vote for the democrats. Don't vote for the republicans. Vote independent.
It's all about what you
reallywant for your country.When you vote the democrats in, you allow the republicans to rest, you allow them to win again afterwards.
It's about getting the Republican Party down ONCE and FOR ALL.
Still won't vote for her. Sorry, no sale.
kaT @ 115:
Oh cool, so we're going to elect someone cause the corporate media made her look nice to most people, especially to ..republican women. Great.
And let's not forget the neo-nazis and the white supremacists ! Any vote can be important.
Politics is not about what you stand for anymore(has it ever been anyway), it's about choosing the largest base and advertising about that base's opinions.
If you can steal votes from the republican party by doing what the republicans does, then it's all cool. And while you're being a rightist, your democratic label will magically advance the cause of homosexual marriage, abortion rights and the fight against poverty. And let's not forget to get tougher than the republicans on Iran, crime and drug !
Hillary ! It's like Lieberman ! Republican with a democratic label ! Hurrrrayyyy !
Some republican head explained this in 2006 and for once i agreed, when the democrats win, the republicans can rest. They are no longer in charge, and people forget about how they really are. Then a few years later, they go back at it like nothing had happened, and they get reelected.
You know some people already forgot when the 9/11 attacks took place, some people in NEW YORK cannot even tell the year it happened. The FREAKING YEAR.
You vote the democrats in, you actually lose. On the long term, you will get another republican win, because people will have forgotten how bad they suck. We need a permanent print on the american mind.
I'm not looking forward to all the baggage that Clinton brings to the table. These things don't bother me in the least but they are gas for the Foxfire and their ilk. I don't want to hear it over and over and.....
Monica...Monica...Monica. Socialized medicine....socialized medicine.....socialized medicine.....Vince Foster murder...travelgate....FBIgate......trashed the whitehouse....doesn't bake cookies.....over billing hours.....inside trading tips....wide hips...small tits.....
I do think she is the one Dem that could waken the Repug's base and lose. I respect Clark, and his endorsement is big to me.......and if...if she gets the nomination, I'll hold my nose and vote for her because the alternative is not ponder-able. 2004 almost killed me!
well, crap. i am really disappointed in Clark for doing this. i thought he was more staunchly progressive and more staunchly anti-Iraq war than to endorse Hillary. damn it.
this settles it. i'm voting for Kucinich in the primaries, though he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. after that, i don't know. i really don't know if i can bring myself to vote for Hillary.
Pissed-American @ 1:
Hey pissed...so you want Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton? Do you "really" think this will change anything? are you really that deluded? Same old CFR globalist whores. Try the real deal for a change: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8
A.Citizen @ 6:
Clark had close ties to Clinton's people in his presidential run. I still won't vote Hillary but the Z-Team is pushing her hard. I'll bet her poll numbers are phony too. Elections don't reflect true numbers anymore anyway.
BlueKnuckle @ 14:
Got that right. I am sooo totally unimpressed.
SFnomad @ 111:
We will not change our mind...
WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF YOU GUYS SUPPORTING THE LIKES OF HILLARY!
We hope you wake up... and do what ever you can to knock the current shit pot paradigm we have over and out...
Lets not forget who set up bushie boy PERFECTLY for every goddamn thing he has "screwed" up...
Your Candidates Husband.
They are the same... There is little tangible difference in their actions... Lip service.. oh yeah there is a difference.. Actions??? No..
SSDN.
We are going to fight over the resources the Corporations want... no matter what...
It is your lifestyle that forces that WAR.. can you accept that?
Or is this just more of that whole..
Love Me I'm a Liberal
I cried when they shot John Lennon
Tears ran down my spine
And I cried when I saw "JFK"
As if I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcom-X and Ice-T had it coming
They got what they asked for this time
Chorus:
So love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal
I go to pro-choice rallies
Recycle my cans and jars
I'll honk if you love the Dead
Hope those funny Grunge bands become stars
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit to far
Chorus:
So love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal
I cheered when Clinton was chosen
My faith in the system reborn
I'll do anything to save our schools
If my taxes aint too much more
And I love Blacks and Gays and Latinos
As long as they don't move next door
Chorus:
So love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal
Rush Limbaugh and the L.A.P.D.
Should all hang thier heads in shame
I can't understand where they're at
Arsenio should set them straight
But if neighborhood watch doesn't know you
I hope the cops take your name
Chorus:
So love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal
Yeah, I read the New Republican
Rolling Stone and Mother Jones too
If I vote it's a democrat
With a sensible economy view
But when it comes to terrorist Arabs
There is no one more red, white, and blue
Chorus:
So love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal
Once I was young and had an attitude
Stickers covered the car I drove in
Even went on some direct actions
When there weren't rent-a-cops to be seen
Ah, but now I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
Chorus:
So love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal
LanceThruster @ 126:
I have yet to meet one person who would vote for Hillary. Well . . . that's not true. Some of my friends in NYC work for her campaign, but they dont count. I dont believe the polls and neither do they, oddly enough.
If Hillary get the Dem nod, I will write in Ron Paul. I have major problems with some of Ron Paul's positions, but I will not go along with Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. Not in this lifetime. The broad NEVER EVEN READ BUSH'S CONGRESSIONAL REQUEST TO GO TO WAR in 2002. Didn't even read it! There is no excuse. None. Nunque. For that. Zip.
[One thing to have made a mistaken vote at the time. But to NOT READ IT ?!?!?!? I have no sympathy for her.]
Well, that's quite a big deal, that endorsement.
{ ps to poster immediately above, 'harleli' -- referring to a Presidential candidate as a "broad" is like calling someone a 'nappy headed 'ho.'
Not in a racist way, but in a sexist way. Very sexist.
Apparently to you there's not anything very wrong with that . . . because if you'd thought it was wrong, presumably, you wouldn't have said it in the first place.
So shut up.
Why are there only Bushist fascists posting here today?
They so suck.
Oh and one other thing...
Who exactly are these people crying about us having DISSENT over who the Democratic candidate is going to be????
Since when are we the mono-bots?
Thats the REPIGLICAN mantra..
WE do not support Democrats because they have a D or a d by their name... That is what got us into this SHIT in the first place..
We hold our members accountable... and do not allow them to skate on molesting 15 yo boys.. being against gay rights while giving cleveland steamers in mens bathrooms... or to sell us down the river..
We... are done with that.
Our foreign policy would be no different with Hillary than it is with Bush & Cheney. Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul seem to be the only two candidates who will change anything. To vote in people like Hillary, Obama, Guiliani, Fred Thompson.....you might as will make Bush dictator for life. It'd be no different.
I am so confused. Are most of the posters here paying attention to what is being said by Hillary Clinton? Are you even taking a moment to read what she is proposing as President?
I am taking a leap here and assume some Ann Coulter lovin website posted a fun idea, go to C&L and make them think Hillary is bad so she might not get elected.
Look at Rudy's response this week. He is in full attack mode for a reason, he is scared of her. She is the front runner period.
She will be 1000x the president that Bush was and considering the condition of the country could even do more and be better than Bill Clinton. I mean at least there won't be 3 years wasted on some stupid mistake with an intern.
It is late, I will go to bed and hopefully wake back up in reality tomorrow. This is just frightening.
One last comment, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul scare the hell out of me. I mean seriously a department of peace?
I know he is a far left liberal idol but realize that the majority of the Democratic party and the country are not far left liberals.
Those guys are fun in a debate and do have some good ideas but they are clouded by some completely insane and unrealistic ideas about how this world works.
And neither stands a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting a nomination for any major position outside what they hold now. With that said I think they add a lot to their current positions and really do help diversify congress. The far left of our party deserves representation. I also think the far right of the republican party deserves representation. As we have learned with Bush Jr., it is best to leave that representation in the congress and out of the white house.
kaT @ 113:
yep. righty right.
that's why i mentioned gore vidal, as he'd so covered such point.
i say in the 20th century we grew the notion and expectancy of liberty to almost full bloom, so much so that i believe we'll actually get there one day...
GMFORD @ 89:
That's exactly right. And anyone who comes on this board complaining about "the looney left" is tipping his hand so bad, Stevie Wonder could read it.
I'm not voting for Hillary because she and her husband promised us health care then didn't even fight for the gutless private-insurance plan they put out there. And now she thinks it's something she can make jokes about. She has the same philosophy as Bill: screw the people who put you there.
You want to talk practical? Anyone who thinks the DLC's suddenly figured out how to win elections should ask Harold Ford what he's up to these days.
No way in hell will I vote for Hillary. She's more of the same. She believes in this poorly thought out "War on Terror" which is just as unwinnable as the "War on drugs". There will always be violent terrorist acts in a free and open society. Hell, even a police state can't completely suppress acts of terror. She's more of the same in a slightly different flavor. Massive corporate influence and perpetual war.
Is she better than Giuliani. Yes, by a million miles! But Hillary and Giuliani both make me feel sick to the core. Neither candidate equals any real change that could save this republic.
Dennis has my primary vote. I don't care who the "security" establishment endorses
nativeokie @ 136:
This includes your previous ...
ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING?....
WHAT SHE HAS DONE???
SO were Ann Coulter freepers now???... Please... a comment like that only makes you look like some plant shill that is paid to come here and tell us that we have no choice...
Hillary is inevitable... (barf)
I mean the only... and I mean ONLY reason she is a front runner... apart from the MSM talking her up to run for the last 12 YEARS .... Is why?? Because Rupert Murdoch, and the Media/Military/Industrial/Insurance/Banking complex gives her fat stacks of cash...
That is what makes her the best....That corporations give her money in the largest proportions?!?...
What are you huffing?
And as for your terminology phrasing what the majority of Americans are in terms of ideology...
It is idiotic..
Most Americans cannot find their state on a goddamn globe... yes they are dumb, there I SAID IT.... However I do not hold that against them .. as most of them are spoon fed as to what their political persuasion is, by the MSM, the Rush limpballs, ETC...
They are rattled like tigers in a cage .. to react.. react...react...react... Hate the GAYS .. HATE THE A-RABS ... HATE THE LIBRULLS!!! Until it becomes one big glob of shit and they really don't know where it begins or ends...
No one gives them time to think... or do much pondering about anything.. hence the problem they have addressed in the sentence above... And you know what... Most of them .. Don't VOTE!
And as for those that don't vote... if they did... they overwhelmingly would indeed vote Democratic.. or should I say.. Left/Progressive/Independent leaning.
However... if you were to sit down and talk to them... in the small towns... and so forth ..
You would find that the overwhelming majority of those you speak too are indeed Liberals... who are afraid to call themselves because of the do goody two shoes and their stupid assault on GUNS... yeah you dumb bastards stop trying to be everyones goddamn big sister and let well enough alone... and you would never .. ever .. lose another election to those greedy republican scum...
And you know what...
Talk to all those people who live pay check to pay check what they think about NAFTA... GATT... and the rest of this Neo-liberal Bullshit...
And then watch them agree ... and become enlightened by Dennis Kucinich when he talks...
But no.. why would you get down and dirty... you are all afraid of a Department of PEACE for gods sake...
You are afraid of a Department of Peace...???
Wow....
Why do you hate the species so much?
I thought Wesley Clark had more on the ball than that. Disappointment. No way Hillary or any other corporatist whore gets my vote.
Donald Strong @ 22,
Well said. Kucinich in "08 and "12
Hillary Clinton is on the list of people who tried to get me killed when I was in the military through her irresponsibility. That by itself I can forgive if I felt she has changed, but I don't feel that is the case. I think she represents corporate interests more then that of her constituents and I don't trust her. Ultimately feel I would deeply regret voting for her as president. Maybe she is playing to the right like Gore did, and in fact I held my nose and voted for Gore even when he was pretending to be conservative (and voted for Kerry as well). However, I won't hold my nose to vote for Hillary.
The pragmatists may reply, but what if a Republican gets into office because you refused to vote for Hillary in the election? Ok, let's suppose that happens, so what? Seriously, look at what happened to Congress in 2006, and who here will seriously tell me that pattern of Republicans losing seats won't continue in 2008? The Democrats already have the power to stop most of Bush's action had they the spine enough to stand up to him now. In 2008, they will have even more power. In fact, even without their backbones the white house has been somewhat reigned in compared to when they owned the rubber stamp congress.
So what it gets down to is that the government only has a serious chance of changing course when they own both congress and the white house. But who here knows which direction really plans to change course to if she gets the white house? At least under a Republican White House, congress will have to put up at least some resistance, especially when they realize that cooperation with Republicans loses them support back home. Under Hillary though, they might feel no need to put up resistance, no matter fascist the law being rubber stamped.
Then there is the blame game. As long as Republicans control the White House, they take most of the blame for the disasterous course of the government, especially if a recession hits as it might fairly soon. Honestly the Bush white house has been steadily destroying the Republican party, and I would like that trend to continue. Republicans can't afford to sit in the White House for another four years, they made a whole heaping pile of crap that they want to dissociate themselves from. We shouldn't let them.
Nobody should afraid to vote for a true progressive in the primaries or next fall. It's the Republicans that need to be afraid, not us. Lets not let Republicans confuse the issue by letting DINO's into office, we need a party that really is progressive liberal and not the lesser of two evils. If we don't force democrats to choose sides then we've become as spineless as the representatives that don't really represent us. They will then always walk over us and pay us lip service while really only paying attention to what a few wealthy donors actually want.
The truth is, we have to risk losing. We can't accept the easy win, because the easy win is really a loss in the long run. I hoping things don't come down to this. I hope someone else can beat Hillary in the primaries and will definitely vote against her then. However, despite Hillary still being a better candidates then any of the Republicans, I'm willing to let things burn a while longer until real progressives can come in and clean up the mess. Political change through the system is a slow process, but not so slow that we can let go of our values.
I used to have a modicum of respect for Wesley Clark. No more. By his endorsement of the Hillary, he's feathering his nest. He's in effect, submitting his resume for approval for some kind of job! Be gone, Wesley. Hillary is not the right person for this job.
Everyone needs to see this:
http://warmadeeasythemovie.org/
You can watch/stream much of the movie here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/29/1322235
OH NO................... not you.....say it isn't true.....
Wow. The blog comments here are quickly approaching the YouTube level of loud stupidity.
No, I don't like Clinton either. She's a corporate sellout just like her husband.
However, he was a COMPETENT sellout. Not a day goes by that I don't miss the Clinton years. Life was good then. Competent anti-terrorism and police work. Competent foreign policy. Competent domestic and fiscal policy. Someone in charge of FEMA who actually had expertise doing disaster response. Respect for the institutions of government and democracy. Respect for religious and racial and ethnic diversity, and of immigrants, and the separation of church and state. Hell, respect for the Constitution. When's the last time we had any of that in the White House? Oh yeah, when Clinton was in office.
Hillary is at least as smart as Bill, and we get both of them in 2008 for the same price, plus Edwards, Obama, and Clark either on the ticket or in the Cabinet. Sounds like a win. I'll take that any day.
Competent police work ? Oh please. The Clintons didn't stop the SWAT shit from happening. SWAT Teams are used for everything, and innocent people die because of that. Did the Clintons stop this ? No they let it happen, probably they didn't even notice anything wrong. You didn't notice anything wrong.
Life was good for the middle class, big deal. So we're gonna go back to a good life for the middle-class and the poor will go to hell as usual.
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