Hillary Clinton introduces her health care plan
By Nicole Belle Sunday Sep 16, 2007 4:13pm
It's up on her campaign website. What do you think?
Ezra Klein gives his take...
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Clinton is bought and paid for by the health insurance companies.
No, we don't need universal health insurance. Insurance companies brought us the current healthcare crisis.
Get them out of the picture and go to a single healthpayer system.
NO INSURANCE COMPANIES!
Sounds exactly like what Mitt did when he was governor of Mass.:
-- Require that everyone get health insurance.
-- Provide free/cheap govt. insurance for lower income brackets.
Of course, the dumbass doesn't mention this in his campaign... but that's fine with me.
I respect her guts for actually delivering substance to this debate.
She will get a lot of resistance/criticism, however. She messing with big money here...
Looks like the insurance companies got to her. I haven't read it, so I'll reserve a final opinion. It just reads like an insurance company pamphlet, so my first impressions aren't good.
"And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums."
(ahhhh...tax credits...omg didn't Bush say this?)
"They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium.."
(can you imagine what they will charge?)
Sounds like the best Republican plan out there!
Lollimon got it in one. Yo Hillary! It isn't about insurance, it's about care! Fer Crissakes when are these idiot going to realize that it's the insurance system that keeps people from getting proper health care, not the health care system.
It's why I didn't like her original proposal 15 years ago. We need to end welfare for insurance companies. Tax credits won't help people who don't pay taxes and simply adding another expense to people's lives, regardless of where a portion of the money comes from, is no solution at all.
As long as we have to run the insurance company gauntlet to get even minimal health care we will continue to lag behind the civilized world when it comes to our nation's health.
It's bullshit, plain and simple. We need to get rid of the Insurance Industry. Anything else is just more corporate welfare, with more terrible HMO 'managed care" that sucks. Basically her program will give tax dollars to the same greedy bastards that are running the terrible system we have now.
Dennis K. is the ONLT candidate that is for a Canadian type system, which is what we deserve. Anything less is just more of the same bad managed system we have now.
Health insurance. Every other candidate as well. Kucinich is the only one I know of that will get the companie's hands out of our pants. Gravel is another. Anyone?
Hillary is no wan fragile flower unless you add long sharp teeth ala Little Shop of Horrors to what is certain to become a monster if allowed to do so.
But, we're not going to let her are we (in bush's words during the '04 election debates with Kerry).
What do I think?
I think I've heard the same bs from a Clinton before.
From Tom:
"It isn’t about insurance, it’s about care! Fer Crissakes when are these idiot going to realize that it’s the insurance system that keeps people from getting proper health care, not the health care system."
Thank you!!
I lose my job I keep my health insurance. Thank God. I hope it's less than my unemployment insurance!
Actually, the more I read about it, it sounds like Switzerland's system: a handful of private companies, but very heavily regulated... sort of like Amtrak and the Post Office. It could be good or bad, depending on how well it's regulated. Basically, it's taking the current healthcare options that Federal employees have (such as Congresscritters) and turning it loose on the general public.
We, the people, want a single payer system where the government is that single payer. 100% coverage for every American citizen. Taxes will pay for it. We also demand that it be funded before any consideration of war. In the new congress, it will be the first thing and nothing will be accomplished until it is done.
I always find the idea of tax cuts for lower income / working families to bu hilarious, I mean most of the people that need care the most are making just enough to not receive any extra money from more tax cuts. Tax cuts do nothing but keep the rich rich, we need real universal health care!
NO
With any involvement of the for profit private sector there will be an endless pressure to modify the system to the benefit of profits - and it will eventually be modified.
No profits at the expense of anyones health - period.
The Clintons are Teddy Roosevelt republicans.
HR 676
http://www.healthcare-now.org/resources/hr676.htm
Hilary Clinton's plan is a step in the right direction, but it leaves in place insurance companies that have already screwed up everything. No, we need a single payer health program. My question for Mrs. Clinton is, what happens when you lose your job? How do you pay the premium? What happens when you become too sick to work? Who pays the premium? Yeah, not so great now. Seems like the old system, dressed up in fancy insurance-pamphlet talk.
How about the damned insurance companies aren't allowed to raise rates on a whim. I know a health insurance agent who has his own office for one of the big companies. This fucker lives like a king and basically works when he feels like it. He makes more money than god and that money comes out of the pockets of Americans who scrimp and save to pay for their insurance, as they hope to hell it won't be canceled if they need it.
Hey, while we are at it.
I have a solution for "poverty"
just "mandate" people not to be poor.
Hell, we can fix anything that way.
Her plan basically assumes that people don't buy insurance because the use the money for something else.
The majority of the people who don't have security can't afford it, and no, a modest decrease in the price of insurance (%20 drop?) only benefits the insurance company.
Hey, I would sell running shoes and the government mandate the use of running shoes I will give a discount also, and laugh my way the bank.
Hmmm... Not sure what I think... A lot of babble about 'tax credits' and reining in the insurance industry and a lot of other feel good, not to clear on details ideas. Just how functional are these tax credits likely to be? Are they backed by laws that stand up to legal scrutiny? Who will honor them... Not every business honors food stamps and that is suppose to be just as good as money too.... Portability is good... But then everyone says that too.....Even the industry ...
As for the 'reining in' the insurance industry??? Yea, interesting idea, surely needed... Will H. Clintons plan do this??? Hmmmm interesting theory.... We'll see, but I'm not particularly optimistic at reading about this on her site... She speaks of it, but I did not see any nuts and bolts details of how this magic is suppose to happen. Does anyone think the insurance industry is just going to idly stand by and allow someone to neuter their current power over this subject. What about that army of insurance industry lobbyists? Anyone think they won't work to mutilate whatever Clinton thinks she is up to on this now???
What comes to my mind on all this is: What the hell happened to her original universal single payer plan from the 90s'.... I agree with a poster above.. It's the insurance industry and its need to max out profit that has brought us to this sorry state... And after participating in denigrating and trashing her and her original plan conning the public into this PPO/HMO business model instead... If her current idea doesn't address and truly rein in some of the more egregous business practices of which denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions is just the tip of the iceberg of bad business practices and behaviors... Then this is probably just more bullshit and won't really fix anything................JD
Parallax @ 14:
Kucinich. Real Universal Health Care. We need to stick a pin in the illusion of this Hillary mindfuck. Pop!
I think it stinks.
Tax credits don't help me pay for squat. I still have to come up with the money up front so it does nothing to help at all.
Here, why isn't anyone talking about something like this:
1) Commission a study of what Europe/Canada is doing.
2) Find out what doesn't work in those countries and catalog it.
3) Find out what does work in those countries and catalog it.
4) Combine all the findings into a single baseline database and remove any reduncies.
5) Remove what doesn't work and create database 2.
6) Extract what does work and create database 3.
7) Compare database 2 and database 3, if there are any discrepancies identify and THEN create a new solution to address them.
8) Use that result.
STOP TRYING TO CREATE YET ANOTHER PLAN OUT OF THIN AIR YOU MORONS!
There are countries doing this right now, learn from their example.
Won't happen though, politicians are dirt stupid. It's what you get when you eliminate qualifications as a prerequisite and make the electoral system a popularity contest. The charismatic retards win.
enor @ 3:
Excuse me, but if the big money you think she is messing with, is the health care industry, someone (I'll do it) ought to inform you that Clinton is the number one recipient of that industry's money now that Rick Santorum is gone.
Anybody else notice how Hillary's face appears to smooth out and then crumble like bush's?
Just wondering.
I think it's time to call the Dr! Dr. Paul who has the right perscription.
1x Free Market
Why, do insurance companies have to be involve.
create a single-payer solution, and let the insurance companies out it.
I am from Spain, this is how it works there.
You covered just by default for anything, from a cold to an organ transplant.
You can buy health insurance if you want, although I don't want anybody who does.
but nobody is taken them out business.
Picture future nightmare of this witch in office, and all those millions of people who for one reason or another will not meet financial, tax, health or other criteria and still be without health care.
Full disclosure: This is a Canadian perspective. I looked over the plan and I'm not impressed. What people in the U.S. need is a single-payer system, universal health care. Clinton's plan would still allow the insurance companies to be a major pain in the butt. It's gotta be better than what you have now, but you deserve nothing less than universal health care.
I'm with Oldtree #13.
crazylove @ 8:
That's it. This is the same useless bullshit that every other Democratic candidate has been feeding us - save Kucinich and Gravel. It's not giving everyone health care, it's putting everyone in the insurance industry's pocket.
This is total bullshit. Does this idiot think that those of us who don't have health care actually don't WANT it? Hey, you dumb-ass...WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!! The Health Care Insurance bill for me and my wife would be about $700-800 a MONTH---which we DO NOT HAVE...TAX BREAKS don't help worth a damn if you don't have the money to begin with.
There is NOTHING wrong with government-run health care---many countries have it and it works just fine...it's the American Doctors who don't want it...heaven forbid they can't afford that all-important second MercedesBenz and the summer home at the beach. We have government-run police and fire departments and schools, don't we? (of course, the firemen and policemen and teachers don't live like kings either) How about cutting off the billions we are wasting on Halliburton and other bullshit artists and using it for the good of Americans in general?
it won't work. it's a bad idea.
here's why.
if you are going to "mandate," then you have to provide enforcement and penalties.
so far, only dennis kucinich has come up with the right answer, but of course he is too short to be president. too bad, 'cause he'd be a good one.
maybe he could stand on a box or something.
By the way, it's not only the premiums that are killing the middle class-it's the huge amounts that we still pay that the insurance companies aren't covering!!!
How does this "reign in the insurance companies"???
"Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium." (my emphasis)
What crap. Its not the dropping and/or denying that's the big problem. Its the costs...stupid.
It's BULLSHIT. There should be no private insurance companies involved at all. Period.
Hillary's a tool.
This is terrible of me to say, but somebody give Kucinich a thick rare steak (he might pink up) Love him anyway!
Same crap, new packaging.Her site makes it appear that they're going after the insurance companies but nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is the insurance companies have bought out Clinton and most of the Democratic Party. We're never going to have a single payer system..NEVER! All that donor money from the insurance lobby have just delivered a great rate of return.
Juba @ 7:
Not just singling out you, but others with the same point:
Of course health care companies suck ass. What do you expect her to do? Would you prefer she come out and propose that the government collectivize every privately owned insurance company so she can do what she pleases? This isn't the USSR or Venezuela.
Do you really think that someone like Dennis Kucinich winning the white house (or anyone else for that matter) would automatically mean that everything would change to his liking?
How about we hope for at least some improvement before we demand 100% of everything we've ever wanted? If I was president, I'd want to change a whole bunch of shit. Guess what ... there is still a congress and only so much a president can do.
So while I understand that there are loftier ideals to be met. I hope all of the Hillary hate isn't blinding everyone to the fact that, despite what GWB would have you believe, the president doesn't just get to do absolutely everything he/she wants to. Holy shit.
How did the religious right become so powerful in this country? Was it by demanding that their candidates do everything they want immediately? No. Had they done that, they would have never even gotten their guys in the door. Jesus Christ, I bet if Hillary Clinton walked up to a liberal and handed them a million dollar check, the liberal would say, "Fuck you, you corporatist whore! Only a million? I need two million! Shove it up your ass!"
Yeah, it is perfectly acceptable to point out why her plan falls short of the ideal. But I don't think that's what's going on with a lot of the haters that comment on Hillary. I don't infer from them an opportunity for dialog. All I infer from them is hate. That's different ... and I'm more than just a little scared it might just cost our team the white house.
Johnny2Bad @ 30:
not to mention, the insurance companies still have to make a profit. so the people who aren't dropped either have super high premiums, or there has to be a "high risk pool." and guess who pays for that?
there is no free market, for profit model that will provide universal healthcare. all this proposal (and edwards' and pbama's) would do is add another layer of expensive overhead and more of the big brother. not the big brother who watches out for you and protects you, the big stupid brother who knocks you down and steals your bike.
yes. exactly what i'd prefer.
well, almost exactly. not "so she can do what she pleases." right answer, wrong motivation.
Wow, I thought I was cynical. Clinton's plan is fine.
I'm all for Universal Healthcare whatever form it takes. At least the Dems have some plan, not like the fat-cats.
oldtree @ 13:
If things were normal, that is. There's the added complication of what to do with corporate interest in cheap slave wage earners illegally here from Mexico. Gee, they'd have to do something about their health coverage as well, right? And about the automatic citizens that are popped out on our soil.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for humanity, but this would provoke quite a few other snakes in the woodpile.
see, you've got it wrong here, too. and i'm not a hillary hater - she just does not represent the policies that are to MY liking. and that's what is important - not what the CANDIDATE wants, but what the PEOPLE want. at least, the majority of them. so long as it doesn't tyranize the minority.
so you see, i'll be exercising MY little bit of power by voting for the person who most closely represnts MY ideals. everyone should do the same, instead of worrying about who hates who and whether someone has a D or an R after their name, orwhat color or gender or how tall they are.
clinton's plan is a bad one. the current situation is even worse. and it's going to take someone who passionately believes in the only workable solution to even have a chance to make it better.
In addition, who can't wonder which election is certain to go awry in the event we have a pure soul touting Universal Health Care? He'll be eaten alive.
Why can't we just have Medicare for all?
There’s the added complication of what to do with corporate interest in cheap slave wage earners illegally here from Mexico.
unionize them.
oh, and start pushing for collective bargaining INSIDE mexico as well. the problem isn't just cheap labor here, it's the differential between that and even cheaper labor further south.
mexico is tom joad's dust bowl. we are mexico's california valley. we just have to start all over again with a bigger geographic area.
It is a start. It is more than I have heard come from the bush administration. It is at very least an attempt to move this nation in the right direction.
Time we destroyed this Hillary as Phenomenon hoo-ha assumption implanted by the gaseous Meister Murdoch.
dirk gently @ 38:
I don't disagree with you ... in the primary season. But come time for the general election, there is absolutely a difference between the ones with a D and the ones with an R.
I guess GWB and company have turned me into such a cynical shit that I can't believe that the people can have what they want anymore. I hope we figure out how to take back our country. But presidential elections, unfortunately, isn't the place to start.
It sounds as bill is going to buy a lot of stock in insurance companies. Insurance companies are the trouble with our medical problems.
as a nurse since the 60's i can testify to the need to eliminate not regulate the insurance companies. they have sucked the blood out of every other aspect of health care to feed their bloated beaurocracies and have no positive role at all in the delivery of care. every patient, nurse and even many of the docs i know support single payer because we know how relatively efficient medicare is compared to everything else.
yeah, but the process is the same, your choices are just narrower. you support the one who most represents what you want government to be - because collevtively, we are the government.
i'm pretty sure that a bunch of people who voted for the shrub do not agree with his policies. just look at what he's doing to medical coverage for poor kids - he is threatening to dismantle it out of pure ideology. and i think most of the people who voted for him woud prefer that those kids can see doctors, even if it costs a few cents per person in taxes. but they had to vote for their party.
don't fool yourself, either - it could happen the other way around some day.
Hillary is neo-con and a corporatist - plain and simple. She loves her corporate money just as she loves AIPAC. It amazes me that she is the front runner considering that fact she has been missing in action when it comes to leading the Democratic party. Folks, we need leaders, not bottom feeders.
RW @ 42:
Bigger, thicker, stickier spiderweb.
I don't believe for a minute millions won't hit a wall to keep them out.
We hear "Hillary's a pragmatist" re what can be passed for our benefit. Prepare to have our collective balls/ovaries crushed beneath these luvly benefits.
I agree with susan g. Nothing -- spelled N-O-T-H-I-N-G except single payer -- AND NO HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES -- will work.
I notice that Hillary is calling her plan SINGLE PAYER -- but keeps the insurance companies involved. Does she think we are stupid? Well, she is probably correct, with too many Americans, who STILL shudder at the term: SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.
Imbeciles. How many have to die before Americans wake up?
wish i could stay and chat longer. before i go, remember this:
once this plan fails, health care reform will be "off the table" again. the free market weenies will all crow "we told you so!" and they will have been right. the sad part is that once that happens, it will be a club with which to beat any future reformers.
think not? consider this: the constitution provides one remedy for a president gone amok - impeachment. but we can't use it, because last time it "divided the country."
they are sneaky bastards.
and i think the desparate folks who used to be called patients but are now just customers are ready to have medical care as a right of citizenship not a privilege of wealth. witness the american cancer society's campaign-they realized the uninsured are dying of cancer at higher rate due to delayed care and are waging their own campaign for universal coverage.
jr @ 40:
That is HR 676.
Naturally you dopes will trash Hillary & her health plan.
It's embarrassing to be a Democrat. You guys yak about
candidates who have no chance & vilify Hillary who will
be the nominee. You guys all suck ass. Here's to another
Repub president. Nice going, dimwits.
After 30 years of racking up the National Debt, we cannot afford this crap.
This country is BROKE. We're in the red big time. Will we ever pay off that 9 trillion debt?
It should be a crime to deficit spend with other people's money.
I'll say it again. If we're going to vote in people like Hillary we might as well save pointless trips every 4 years and just make Bush dictator for life. Why even get up on election day.
dirk gently @ 36:
In no time flat, the insurance companies hijacked our healthcare system and inserted themselves, overnight, between us and our doctors.
What I would have Clinton do, overnight, is to put those same insurance companies and the armies of people working for them OUT OF BUSINESS.
We don't need this cozy little industry, this money pit, that insurance companies created for themselves.
It's about health, care, life, and death.
I don't give a DAMN about those insurance companies and all the people working for them. Let them find honorable work.
Mike @ 54:
So sure already? I believe the only person who can beat ANY repuke in the field is Edwards.
Mike@54;
It's not going to work out that way dude... It's just not...
Personal opinion..... There's not going to be any Hillary as president.. (too many well heeled monied interests working againt her 24/7/365)... and there ain't going to be any republican president this time.... (Bush's bullshit 24/7/365 has made sure of that)...Too bad he's wrecked the country in the process.....
I'm voting Kucinich... I don't know if he'll make it or not... Frankly I don't know who is going to end up inheriting this Bush clusterfuck, but I don't think its Hillary or any of the current Repuke nominees.... And I still think 18 months away or not... We still need to impeach This prick of a president.... And his little dog handler Cheney too.....JD
Hillary Clinton introduces her
health carebullshit planAh, I'm so glad I'm not alone in knowing bullshit when I smell it. Here's a video the 35 Percenters did awhile back to draw attention to Kucinich's healthcare plan, which is the only serious one out there.
Thank you, James Carville !
Clearly, what this country needs is a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM. Period. Anything else may be an improvement, but ultimately the solution is to have privately run hospitals and clinics and doctor practices and labs (some for-profit, some non-profit) and then a central hub to bill and pay out claims. Anything short of this is more 'free market' crap and inefficiency. Medicare generally works which is not much different than what should and hopefully will replace the currently broken American health care system.
Only a totally screwed up federal government (as seen with the Bush-Cheney administration) would not be able to make this work. Of course, it would help if election finance reform and the destruction of the lobbying and political action committee could occur first. But either, way the public wants health care reform and a single payer system and I suspect that is what they will finally get. If not, this country is just a nice piece of real estate but no soul.
Supporting candidates with ideas like this are just going to cause this country to continue to limp along until we can't go any further.
As most people have stated, it's not about tax credits. And the solution isn't to work with the insurance companies...they are the enemy of the sick. This plan will cause more confusion and allow the insurance companies to continue their hocus-pocus that caused this quagmire in the first place.
When will people learn?
It sounds okay, better than what we have now.
Hillary in 2008!
You know we have a single payer health care system here that works extremely well. It's called Medicare. Expand Medicare to cover every citizen increase taxes enough to cover it (I guarantee it will be far cheaper than any health insurance) and guarantee treatment to everyone. This isn't about replacing the insurance industry with something like the insurance industry, it is about allowing the medical profession to determine treatment, with checks and balances built in (Medicare processes fraud cases regularly, no system will exist that has no fraud, it is how you catch it that matters).
It is about health care, not health insurance. The savings to small business and large business will be so overwhelmingly positive that any increase in taxes will be overcome by the efficiencies and reduces costs inherent in a system where people no longer negotiate salaries based on health insurance, unions no long hold out for health care reasons after having already agreed on salaries (as in a recent Longshoremen's contract dispute).
Consider this, $2500 of the cost of every GM car goes to pay for health care. Plus the health care component of retirement plans can bankrupt the biggest company. Imagine how much more secure retirement plans will be in corporate America if they are saving on health care that isn't job dependent.
HEALTH CARE NOT HEALTH INSURANCE ought to be the rallying cry for Democrats this political season.
PurplePatriot @ 37:
kucinich 08 slock
Hillary's plan as flawed as it is is still a substantial improvement over what we have and it's certainly better than anything any republican candidate has to offer.
She must of taken a page from George Bush. Does she think we are stupid? We are asking for a Universal Health Care Plan, NOT FOR PROFIT. I also don't believe when she says that she is going to bring the troops. Dennis Kucinich is the only who has Universal Health Care Plan, please join us at the Dennis Kucinich website and help with volunteering and support.
Just days after her giving a slap to insurance companies in her rhetoric (actually, a love pat) she rolls out an insurance company-written "plan" to force all Americans to pay insurance companies to turn down medical treatment! Woohoo! There is no better way to get me to become UN-insured than to compel me to PAY for insurance!
Basically, she is setting up a racket (in cahoots with insurance companies) to FORCE people to give their money to insurance companies so said companies can turn down requests for drugs, treatments, and tests...because it hurts the insurance company's CEO paycheck. For profit insurance has NO PLACE in healthcare! There must be NO hindrance between a patient and his/her doctor. If a test is called for then the person GETS IT. Period. If a treatment is recommended, then the patient GETS IT. Period. There can be no profit motive in between to throw up barricades (and thus murder the patient/victim).
Hillary SUCKS!
so shes only going to roll back part of the tax breaks for the rich, big fucking deal shes repig light!
would a single payer system be politically viable? would middle class ppl stil lvote for her if she pshes it as her agenda? Remeber , shes a smart person, and shes gotta make herself electable, just like any other democrat.
I suspected as much when I read it but the comments here helped me out - NO INSURANCE COMPANIES in basic heath care. Period. Everyone covered.
Notice how we bicker over whether we deserve small improvements or big improvements from our elected officials, all while actually receiving NO improvements???
I want the plan that she and all the government officials have. If it's good enough for our elected officals...it should be good enough for us!
sam @ 79:
right on
NOT GOOD ENOUGH, HILL!
tyree @ 71:
kucinich 08 slock
I love you, man. I'll do you one better: Kucinich/Tyree in '08!
sam @ 79:
Amen.
Substance?? Are you kidding? She will get a lot of resistance but that is all about hating "teh left" all the time. The Cons are so far removed from anything even resembling the humane and right that they will fight anything even resembling a "populist" program. The idea that she is "messing with big money here," however, is absurd. If she gets her way she will be making insurance companies SO MUCH MORE MONEY it won't even be funny. She isn't messing with big money -- she is hoping to make them bigger money.
The very first comment to this thread is dead on. Wake up people. A vote for Clinton is a vote for more corporate whoring.
All her plan does is mandate profits for the insurance companies. She's dead to me now.
sheeple @ 84:
After GWB/Cheney, I long for the days when our biggest problem was corporate whoring.
And...
If you are pushing for Dennis Kucinich you are begging to get screwed, yet again.
Insurance companies are scum I worked for 2 of them to feed my kids after a divorce. I never felt so slimy in my life - people tie themselves into knots to justify denying claims. The insurance companies must go - let them sell all the other kinds of insurance, but no more health insurance.
Tom (Not Tom) @ 85:
This is going to sound facetious, but I don't mean it that way. Do you have a palatable plan drafted that accomplishes what is needed for the American people, but can also keep her electable? If so, please post a link to your blog where you have it posted. I'd be very interested in reading it. I might even forward it on to the Clinton campaign as an alternative.
PurplePatriot @ 82:
I love you, man. I'll do you one better: Kucinich/Tyree in '08!
even better dork! beats that shill hillery and obamma!
Hillary's plan absolutely SUCKS.
It's a gimmicky mess, designed to protect the health insurance companies and to put the single-payer system the country needs even further out of reach.
The status quo, horrible as it is, would be better than this boondoggle.
Anybody but Clinton! She's starting out pre-triangulated, and has nowhere to turn but to the right.
No INsurance companies!!!
Hillary's "plan" will go nowhere.
Presidential Campaign Finance Summaries
http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do
PAC Money: Clinton, $535,346 - Obama, $125 - Edwards, $0
PurplePatriot @ 89:
Oh for fuck's sake... now we are back to the "electability" issue eh? What a joke. Why don't you tell me this purple-fingered patriot: If we only vote for folks that are "electable" will we ever arrive at a better place as a nation?
And, who is to say who is "electable?" The MSM? The Democratic consultants? You because she is the current front runner? Why is she the current front runner anyway? Because she is electable?? It is a vicious cycle that draws in "realists" such as yourself and gets us NO WHERE! Hillary is the front runner because of the MSM and people like you. Maybe if you threw your weight behind someone like Kucinich and actively campaigned for him instead of defending the "realist" position that will ultimately leave us screwed yet again.... maybe if we all did that we would no longer have to suffer the lesser of the devils. It might not happen right away but it would happen. I know one thing for god-damned certain: We will never move this piece of shit system left by voting for the right in sheep's clothing.
tyree @ 90:
even better dork! beats that shill hillery and obamma!
i think your problem is your shitting yellow , so dam scared the pigs are going to take the whitehouse your willing to sell america short by touting hillery the repig , so its four more yrs of lieing war and crooked politicians , get a backbone slick vote kucinich 08!
sheeple @ 87:
Why? Because I'm backing a candidate in the primaries that actually comes close to the beliefs I hold? Should everyone just shut the fuck up and except who ever the DLC throws at us? People should vote with their conscious, not with an 'electability' litmus test, that leads us to 'winners' like Kerry.
The reason why many Americans hate Democrats isn't because of their politics, but because they don't stand for anything. Can anyone really say what Hillary Clinton stands for? More mediocrity, all the time.
Being better than Bush (or any other Republican) is pretty easy, but that shouldn't be the only game in town. I want a candidate that actually believes in something.
It's attitudes like this that make the democratic party a flaccid party that no one with any integrity believes in any more.
i posted on Hillary's blog
didn't make it past the moderators
Having been through it all, I have never seen such a screwed up mess as our nation is in currently.
Ron Paul knows what will reduce the cost of care and stop the give aways to the insurance companies.
PurplePatriot @ 37:
Wow. The more I hope that our side is finally coming to their senses and is ready to win, I come to the C&L comments section and see the same Hillary hate one would expect on FreeRepublic.
Hillary tried to push to Universal Healthcare in 1992 and got her ass handed to her. Now she knows that you have to get a lot of players on board before pushing a new entitlement program this large. Yes, that even means moderate and center-right Republicans and conservative Dems in Congress.
I think debating the merits of the plan is fine, but the personal attacks on Hillary are petty and stupid. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
naschkatze @ 22:
I'm not saying I agree with her, I'm just glad she pitched it.
Right now, we have 47 million w/o health care, if it takes a two step process; first get everyone insured and receiving some health care, we will get used to it - even demand it for all.
The next step is to separate it from the corporations.
I think the leap is too large (and, I know they are all bribed/lobbyed) to go to a single payer system now. These companies are sucking so much wealth out of us it sickens me, yet we accept this form of theft as we do with no bid contracts, earmarks, the changing bankruptcy laws, and ridiculous new banking and credit reg.s, etc.
It's premiums or taxes, either way, it is going to cost us. But, we must do something to stop this ongoing struggle/tragedy for so many. There are ER's closing every other month. TB is back, whopping cough and many (once licked) diseases that are coming back because so many people are avoiding going to a doctor/clinic.
If wait or do not get enough support (even with the devil) to do something, health care for everyone will fail again.
Sorry Sheeple, I misunderstood your comment.
After reading your last comment I can see we are on the same page, my bad.
Whooping, I know.
Juba @ 96:
Oh WOW...what a difference a couple letters and some punctuation makes! Mine should have read:
And... If you aren't pushing for Dennis Kucinich you are begging to get screwed, yet again
AREN'T... Are NOT. Sorry for the confusion.
Hillary, go into the light, there is peace and a book deal in the light...
I am sick to damn death of hearing, "Hillary knows the American people aren't ready for real single-payer."
This is part of the problem -- ANYONE running for president should be a LEADER, not a follower.
Hillary knows the health-care sysem is irretrievably broken. But rather than educate the people, she panders.
I say bullshit.
And another thing -- I have heard for decades that "A vote for so-and-so (now it is Kusinich) is a wasted vote." Enough! I heard this time and again, and listened. Things never changed. I will never hold my nose and vote again. I will vote for the best person. Period. If Americans are THAT stupid, it's their fault, not mine. (And, in 2000, even though I hated Nader and didn't vote for him, I was livid at Democrats blaming Nader voters for giving Bush the presidency. Oh! I thought Bush and the Supreme Court cheated. Can't have it both ways, imbeciles.)
Shell5960w @ 106:
i second that vote, the time for selling out is over , kucinich has my vote , period ill never vote again for guys like kerry who wont fight for the votes they won the presidency with, hilley was a repig before she married clinton shes still a republican and i wont vote for her ,
How to solve the US health crisis by enacting a Single-Payer National Health Plan:
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A Single-Payer National Health Plan (also called Medicare For All) will provide guaranteed quality health care to all Americans, regardless of employment status, income, residence, ability to pay, age, or prior medical condition. Single-Payer will also allow full choice of medical provider.
*
Single-Payer payer will be less expensive for working Americans and for business, because we won't have to pay for HMO-insurance company profits, big CEO salaries and bonuses, and administrative waste.
*
Single-Payer makes it easier for your doctor to get paid, and it doesn't require your boss to provide health coverage.
*
Single Payer is an investment in preventive medicine -- it creates an incentive for keeping Americans healthy.
tyree @ 107:
Count me in as well. If Kucinich isn't on the ballot come election day, I will be writing his name in. That is if write-ins are still allowed. Does Diebold allow for write in candidates? Oh to hell with it.. I will just take a permanent marker and write it on the screen.
I hate to say it folks,but Hillary's plan may be the best you can realistically hope for.
There isn't a single candidate of either political stripe that is going to make an end run around Big Pharma.They are simply too entrenched and too powerful.
Given that reality, this plan--to me at least--seems smart and realitively balanced.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/06/10/whills110a.jpg
Jeremy @ 24:
You've got to be fucking kidding me. Get over Ron Paul! I don't care how "hip" supporting him is on the 'net, privatization of everything is horrible idea.
L.A. Confidential @ 111:
Botox and Cosmetic Surgery. "Leave it to Boomers"
How bout just a fair and affordable system!!!!!!!!!!!!
This plan sucks! We need to move towards single payer. Her plan gives the insurance comapnies a permanent stranglehold on health care. Get the insurance companies out of health care!
No, Hillary Clinton has not come up with a health care plan, she has come up with a health insurance plan, and that's a completely different thing.
This story got huge play in the corporate media today. I don't remember Dennis Kucinich getting any coverage when he announced his Single Payer plan. Its rather obvious that the Corporate Media is ASSISTING and AIDING the Insurance Companies.
Most of the public is unaware of Kucinich's single payer plan that eliminates Insurance Companies from the equation. I'm sure that Corporate Media will continue to keep the public in the dark as a special favor their friends in the Insurance industry. Its disgustingly incestuous.
And its all being done using the public's airwaves that the Corporate Media use for FREE!
I'd love to see Dennis Kucinich turn and face Hillary at the next debate and ask...
"When I get sick how does an insurance company help me get well?"
This is exactly why I don't support Hillary. She wants to make the insurance companies richer by giving them tax money. Kucinich has the REAL medical plan for America.
Kucinich 08
This plan sucks. And so does Hillary. I simply detest her and everything she stands for.
Kucinich 08.
There is a bill to expand medicare to all (hb or sb 676?)
How about this: Expand medicare to cover major medical (hospital and major out patient surgery and tests etc) to every one in the country. Then mandate the states medicaid systems cover (with some help from the feds) the primary care of all children 0-19 and Adults up to 3 times the poverty level. That's a rough outline for a stratafied American Single payer system.
if we don't get a single payer health care system, then we are fucked once again by the insurance companies and the bastards in congress who support pacs.
pinkobait @ 110:
So, Edwards promising to force Congress to go on the free market for their own health plans won't get anything done? I doubt it!
Perhaps insurance should be required for all "universal" tax-payer funded public services?
For example, you should be forced to buy Firefighter's Insurance. If your house catches fire the fireman won't put it out unless you have a policy. Police too.
And you do drive on the public taxpayer funded streets? You should be required to buy a policy in case you somehow damage the asphalt? (Separate from your auto insurance policy.)
Mail a letter? The post office is "universal" and paid for by your taxes. You should have to purchase an expensive insurance policy to use this service as well.
Any service that's universal and paid for with taxes should require an accompanying insurance policy. Isn't this kind of what Hillary Clinton is proposing? She wants to pay for health care with our tax money then FORCE us also to buy an insurance policy in order to use it. And this makes it affordable how??
Tax credits are you f*cking kidding me!?
That's her plan? My god, I wonder how long it took her to come up with that plan...what a farce.
Sheeple@109, re Diebold:
They are now known as "Premier Election Solutions". Give 'em an aka Overriders of Inconvenient Party Choices.
The only viable solution in healthcare is to get the insurance companies out who take 50% of the costs and treat no one.
Those who praise Hillary Clinton for this plan because it's just a teensy bit better than what we have under the Republicans prove to me that Non-spinus Democratus is not just found in the US Congress but among the rank and file of the Democratic Party as well. Why are you people so willing to settle for so little in life? Why are you so cowed?
pinkobait @ 110:
Tell that to the millions that will still be paying out-of-pocket retail, still no health insurance, still devastated by medical costs and prescriptions, still dragged into court by collection agencies, still ruined as that bitch calmly unfolds her dinnernapkin beside her stemware waterglass.
Fuck Hillary.
crazylove @ 43:
Bullshit! Dennis stood up to the banks, energy companies, mafia hit-men, republicans...I know I'm repeating myself, and anyone who gets in the way of truth. He also wins at every level in OHIO, fer cripes sake...quit it with the he's too little, too unelectable, too anything...His plans work and Hillary's is just more money for the insurance industry.
All I see are a bunch of brainwashed bozos on this board. Very disappointing. We have the ones who say anything short of a plan that won't pass congress is corporatists. Leadership indeed. Lead us off a cliff and get us nowhere further than before.
And on the other hand we have people who pretend that her health insurance plan is not a healthcare plan. Well guess what: everyone in America already has access to healthcare. The problem is it's not affordable. Anyone can go to an emergency room and those who aren't insured go bankrupt from the cost of their care. For those who truly can't afford health insurance, they will get coverage. And those who can afford it but have been spending their money elsewhere will need to rearrange their priorities going forward. It's an important step. Let's get some reform passed before we talk about a magical land in which healthcare professionals will prefer not to be handsomely compensated for their years' worth of medical school and specialized services.
I really love John Edward's reaction to all of this:
who here wouldn't find it awesome to see all of congress and the white house without health insurance until they're ready to pass universal health care?
It looks like Hillary is right here justifying my reasoning why I can't vote for her. Honestly her plan will deal with the problems of health insurance, but in such a superficial way that it misses the point and just obscures the way to bring us universal health care. You can slap a fresh paint of coat on a pile of crap if you want, it's still the steaming pile of poo we call the health insurance industry.
Mike @ 58:
You've been thoroughly programmed to this either/or bullcrap. It seeped under your door in the form of a gas pumped in by Murdoch some 18 months ago with the "Hillary the Phenomenon" Newsweek cover story whilst her actual interest value was (and still is) fundamentally flatlined. The collective "huh?" went up. By golly it worked.
Programming: complete.
Mike @ 58:
Mike...you are a wimp for not standing up to them...Centrists are losers.
The DLC sucks and has sucked the fight out of the party.
Kucinich for President.
4 minutes ago
SAN FRANCISCO - A division of Dole Food Co. issued an international recall of bagged salad Monday after a sample taken from a store in Canada tested positive for E. coli, the company said.
How bout bad food insurance?
PurplePatriot @ 37:
hillary clinton. the corporate roosevelt.
shit, what did'nt come across was, in respose to what I bolded. (?)
Gorge got his way, so that negates your theory. And calling others haters, just because they see through her is not cool.
Explainer @ 130:
Thanks, I needed that.
next year, for the first time in my life, i may not be voting democrat.
Hillary is a corporate shill and a very dangerous woman. she is not who she pretends to be.
this health plans just serves her corporate masters while trying to placate the masses.
other reasons to shun clinton?
her largest comtributor is 9/11 perp larry silverstein.
she is a regular attendee at the bilderberg group.
google it and shudder.
PurplePatriot @ 37:
I wouldn't use the religious right as an example we want to follow. Namely there is the fact that they have failed to achieve their goals and won't achieve their goals in the near future. Sure, some Republicans pay them lip service, but in actuality abortion is still widely available and legal and they are slowly losing ground over time. Sitting around another 40 years having candidates pay us lip service and pass half measures that nowhere touch the root of our problems is not going to bring us reforms.
Nor are any of us asking for anything over the top as you seem to think. Unless you can explain why it's outrageous to demand of the US a health care policy that nearly every other first world country in the world has already adopted.
if we spent as much time and money killing folks we could have paid health care , clinton said shed pay for that bastard plan she has by repealing HALF of that tax cut she and the other corporate whores doled out to them, half the bitch thinks the wealty still need to fuck over the working class screw her and the dickheads that want another republican like her as president!
less time
Peace @ 124:
zonk @ 140:
Zonk. Take heart. Hillary as nominee is subconscious gossip. Shake it off.
Please!
Insurance companies are the problem! She's full of it. To call people consumers in regard to health care is obscene!
Her plan will inevitably be complicated because the insurance companies need loopholes and need to discourage people from seeking payments.
And what about those who do have "coverage". Usually it sucks! Nothing is covered unless it's okayed by the insurance extortionists.
Who needs Doctors?
Anyone who believes Clinton is a pathetic sucker.
nincompoop @ 144:
What? That's bullshit. That was not in blockquotes.
Lord of Karma @ 141:
It's not outrageous. I say go for it. I'm just begging you to avoid voting against your best interests at the same time come the general election.
PurplePatriot @ 149:
kucinich 08
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