Wife Of Victim From Michael Moore's Sicko Responds To Stossel Hit Piece
By Logan Murphy Monday Sep 17, 2007 8:38am
ABC News, the same network that neo-cons use to further their agenda, decided to look at the question of Universal Health Care in the US. Who better to investigate it than John "The Free Market Trumps All" Stossel? As is evident from the promo from last Friday's Good Morning America, Stossel's program looks like little more than a way to demonize Michael Moore:
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And the actual program was just more of the same: ridiculing Moore and touting the excellence that competition and profits bring our healthcare system.
Julie Pierce, whose husband was sentenced to death by their insurance company and featured in Michael Moore's documentary, Sicko, decided she had to respond to Stossel. We've documented Stossel's bottom feeding, tabloid style "journalism" in the past, from denying global warming to getting smacked down by a professional wrestler, his resume is beyond lame. Kudos to Julie for calling this clown out for his hackery...
Via MichaelMoore.com:
Dear John,
My name is Julie Pierce. My husband was Tracy Pierce. I am featured in Michael Moore's documentary 'SiCKO.' In the movie, I share my deceased husband's story — his unsuccessful battle with our insurance company to receive what could have been life-saving treatments for kidney cancer.
I just read your Wall Street Journal article written on Sept. 13, 2007, titled "Sick Sob Stories." You begin by talking about Tracy's role in 'SiCKO,' and claim the bone marrow transplant denied by our insurer would not have saved him. You also accuse me of "sneering" over our situation.
In your 'reporting' of this story, you did not contact me, and you did not contact my husband's doctors. I cannot believe that a publication like the Wall Street Journal would print such an accusation without talking to anyone involved — especially in such a personal matter, which resulted in the death of my 37-year-old husband and the father of my child.
If you had contacted me, I would have told you that bone marrow transplants became a last option, only after our insurer denied many other treatments again and again and again.
I would have shown you a letter from our doctors at the Blood and Marrow Transplant Program at the University of Kansas Hospital, in which they argued strongly for the bone marrow transplant, citing "strong evidence" supporting the past success of that treatment — they wrote that it could "give him a chance to achieve complete remission." In fact, they called the bone marrow transplant "his only chance of survival."
Instead of calling me up and doing real reporting, all you can do is throw around studies from 1999 about the supposed inefficiency of bone marrow transplants for breast cancer patients — even though Tracy didn't have breasts. He had kidney cancer! I understand that you want to try to prove that private insurance in this country really isn't that bad. And I can see that you won't let the facts get in the way.
You go on to claim that Tracy wouldn't have received his transplant in a country with socialized medicine, either. Where is the evidence? Not only are more bone marrow transplants performed every year in Canada, but they invented the technology! So much for your ridiculous claim that "profit is what has created the amazing scientific innovations that the U.S. offers to the world. If government takes over, innovation slows, health care is rationed."
You are simply carrying water for the for-profit insurance industry that killed my husband. And then you have the nerve to accuse me of "sneering" about it. My husband has only been dead since January 18th, 2006. It is still fresh to me and my family, and comments like this are inhumane.
I have since tried to contact you via email, but you have not responded. I don't expect an answer. People like you just write with an agenda, without coming to the source or getting any facts, because your main goal is to try to discredit Michael Moore and universal health care. I understand it's a game — you did it without thinking about how you would hurt a family who have suffered — and are still suffering — such a tragic loss.
My family is not a "Sick Sob Story." We are a normal, American family that has had a significant member die from a horrible cancer that ravaged his body due to repeated denials from a health insurance company. We will never know for sure what would have worked because Tracy was never given a fighting chance. Over 18,000 Americans die each year because they don't have health insurance. I suppose theirs are "sob stories," too.
I don't want a hit-piece. I want answers. Why does our wonderful profit-driven system of medicine kill 18,000 Americans each year? Why do we pay far more for our health system than any other country, but have some of the lowest life expectancies and highest infant mortality rates in the Western world? Would you discredit the work of your late colleague Peter Jennings who, while suffering with lung cancer, did an excellent report titled "Breakdown: America's Health Insurance Crisis"?
I hope you have answers, but I am not optimistic. I pray that you will never have to go through what we went through — if you did, you wouldn't be so quick to cheerlead the system we were victimized by.
Julie Pierce
Mission, Kansas
(Thanks to Nicole for assistance)
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That's what Republicans mean when they say they are "pro-life:" that they care for the life of the unborn. Once people have been born, they don't give a damn: they are only too happy to let them drown, stave, suffer because they don't have the resources to get medical treatment, or have a bomb fall down on them.
John Stossel - Soon-to-become totally irrelevant Bush Propaganda Poodle looking for a new job.
asoudiere@hotmail.com @ 1:
The sheer hypocrisy of these reichwing christofascists is amazing. They profess to care more for a cluster of cells than the unnecessary, amoral, vulgar deaths of innocent iraqis and our own military. They claim to be "pro life" and then openly admit that killing a surgeon who performs abortions is doing "god's work". I'd say that this level of hypocrisy is what the term "evil" and "devil" is all about. It's speaking with a forked tongue.
Perhaps one of the most blatant examples of how very much our so-called news media are in the pockets of the extremely wealthy. And, as Julie demonstrates it is not just those without insurance who suffer. What the story does not mention is that even should their carrier have permitted the procedure their lives would have been held in bondage for the rest of their lives as they attempted to pay off their portion of the cost. And probably those moneys would be going to a hospital owned by the very insurance company to which they pay their monthly premium! This IS sick. And it has GOT TO stop. When a simple test like a colonoscopy costs 600$ after insurance payments, what would something like this have run?
We must hold Democrats feet to the fire on this issue.
Stossel is a pure tool.
Looks like Stossel needs to have another wrestler beat the crap out of him.... then be denied treatment by his insurer.
I wonder if undertakers vote Republican? After all, Republican policies increase their turnover.
This form of obviously hypocritical mindset will make the pro-life movement obsolete. They don't need detractors or pro-choicers to fight them. Their own enemy is right within them and selective use of the term "life". What a joke they've become. An embarrassment, actually.
Scrapyard_Ape @ 5:
John Stossel is nothing more than a sycophantic, jackass, media prostitute who will pimp his soul for a dollar.
orion @ 7:
Every demonstration I've seen typically involves over-the-hill old men who couldn't sire a child if their life depended upon it, old bag ladies, or frantic high school dropouts looking for some reason to be alive.
Scrapyard_Ape @ 5:
That wrestler smacked Stossel's down to the floor twice and like a typical right wing bully when confronted Stossel pissed himself and ran away faster than a neocon from combat duty.
I saw most of this program, but was not able to stomach it in it's entirety. The message it imparted to me was that Mr. Stossel's opinion was that insurance is expensive because people are needlessly overusing the medical system and abusing their insurance companies by ordering luxury treatments. The program was an ill informed travesty. Shame on ABC.
Reading the phrase "competition and profits" gave me a flashback to the early 70's. No not that kind of flashback. I used to love the album jackets of that time because they were often as entertaining as the music. On a Shawn Phillips album he asked a question that took me a long time to figure out. It was:
What is the acronym for competition?
Give it a shot. If you can come up with a word, then which one is better? I hope that this is not considered off topic because in my view it may be the heart of most of the problems we see in our society today including health care.
If ABC is going to prostitute itself for the insurance industry, I say, boycott anything advertised on the station! Everything! start making a list of the advertisers on ABC, and cut the out!
Stossel is a whore. God I hope he reads this. Your waiters and your busboys are spitting in your food, you sellout bastard!
I am working on a documentary about John Stossel, it's called Dicko.
-GSD
I watched the 20/20 episode as well. When john stossel started talking about how health care is rationed here in Canada I turned the channel. ATTENTION 20/20 HEALTH CARE IS NOT RATIONED IN CANADA. When you started talking about the woman who had to be flown to the US to give birth because the neo- natal beds were not available in canada you said it was rationing. I think you might need to check the definition of rationing.
To restrict to limited allotments......... if health care is rationed in Canada as you suggest would tis woman have been flown to the US to give birth
"I cannot believe that a publication like the Wall Street Journal would print such an accusation without talking to anyone involved —”
The WSJ is now Faux in print. Get use to it!
Typical of the priviledged, pampered "we-distort-you decide" weasels who are providing America with "Information" ---
and hows that war working out for ya?
Clinton's "fix" of the health care problem is to force the poor to pay big money to the insurance companies...and when they get sick? well, the Stossel Effect says they probably won't get help anyway.
It's manditory highway robbery designed to make the insurance companies even more money, and make the poor even poorer.
We want "Dr. D" David Schultz! We want "Dr. D" David Schultz! We want "Dr. D" David Schultz!
http://www.rfvideo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3037
Stossel is just a Tucker clone. Or Tucker Carlson is a Stossel wanna be. They are birds of a feather. How did they get jobs on national TV?
I knew about Stossel's "report" but couldn't bring myself to watch it. Sometimes the mere viewing of such evil taints the soul. Stossel must be getting a fat envelope of cash from someone other than ABC.
Captain Kangaroo @ 20:
That is precisely HOW they got their jobs on national tv... they are corrupt parrots that will say anything as long as it gets them some stock options and a nice little place in Naples.
So America, the self proclaimed 'Greatest' country in the history of the world cannot come up with a system that works and is better than anywhere else?
I guess saying it, and being it, are quite different.
But, again, why should reporters be any different than Politicians?
John Stossel can go to Hell with his Cato Institute talking points. Let's see him live without his Disney and book checks and see if he can afford health insurance. ABC News needs to be boycotted
Milton Freedman mangles America from beyond the grave! Supply-side-trickle-down Reaganomics thrusts the Gods of the Free-Market solution, right down the throats of us all again.
This is complete Right Wing bull crap! The USA has an obligation to take care of its people. We are so far behind when it comes to humanities it is unreal. Five TRILLION for a war of lies and we cant get our people cared for medically? Not to mention the disasters we still have in New Orleans. Its time to take back our country and honor ourselves. DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR HUMANS NOT THE ECONOMY!!
when Stossel and Sawyer get sick they too will realize they wait in America , even under our private system,,,,, and should they be unfortuntate enough to get LYME DISEASE,.,, they get 60 days of meds, end of story. If you aren't better , GO AWAY>
Boycott ABC NEWS! anyone advertising on the network should be Boycotted!
It's quite simple really. Republicans are "pro-life" in that they are "pro-cheap-labor-life". Any un-educated child is a potential exploitive work force. Educate them, and your investment may not be returned (and you have more competition at the "top" of the food chain!). They become ill, they are no longer a positive asset in the system, so let them rot!
Simple math, really...
the issue the pro-corporate health "care" crowd never seems to bring up when they bash universal healthcare in other countries is - what can we learn about the challenges these systems face, and develop an improved version of universal healthcare? it's not an either-or proposition, but apparently, they have no confidence in the experts who could come up with a "third way" not-for-profit system. there goes a fantastic opportunity to build an outstanding system from scratch.
Stossel looks like a 70's era gay porn star.
is this an infomercial - Stossel providing perspective - LOL
What are we expecting from Murdock new political WSJ - facts.
CNN and FOX have never been about facts - why then should the WSJ
Get use to Murdock hateful hit jobs - it what the man is all about.
I think Stossel's ready for another pro-wrestler beat down.
Stossel is a self important boob. I don't think that I've ever seen one of his reports where he doesn't distort facts or leave out crucial elements to the argument.
His role in right wing lunacy isn't reporter, its prosecutor. The argument of a prosecutor isn't to include arguments, facts, or truths that would disprove his or his party's, but to set an agenda for "victory".
I find it sad that there are many who think that because that POS is on TV on in print that he has any value.
And yes, I'd say the same things directly to him
In my previous post I made an error. Make that two errors. The first was in violating my own rule to never post before at least on cup of coffee. The second was the word Acronym. It should have been Antonym. Sorry bout that.
The hope is that Ms. Pierce will send her letter to the Wall Street Journal as a rebuttal to what Stossel had written. But if she did, how likely would it be for the Journal to actually publish her letter?
When are Americans going to start using their brains? Rather than listening to crap like Stossel and crying, "That MUST be correct! Someone on teevee said it!"
...touting the excellence that competition and profits bring our healthcare system.
When insurance companies make a profit, I benefit... how?
Well duh... Pro-Life isn't about saving lives, it's about taking choices away. They would be honest and say there were "anti-choice" but they know people are cautious about taking the choices of others away. Stossel will never go what this poor family went through. He's just another rich a-hole that doesn't understand the limitations of the typical family income. Stossel might think that people should just work harder. But, not everyone wants to make their living stepping on the misery of others.
Boycotting advertisers on ABC is well and good, but equally(and probably more so) is
to email/call/write ABC(Disney) and let them know how we feel about the inaccurate
and deceptive (deceitful) broadcast by Stossel.
:(
I'm left with my mouth gaping wide open. Michael Moore's "Sicko" was greeted with near universal praise when it appeared because both sides of the aisle, so to speak, are affected by the poor quality and corruptness of our health care system. And yet little by little the industry, the politicians, and advertising are reversing the acceptance of Moore's film as a pretty damn good version of the truth into the smear his earlier films have received. It's one thing to replace politicians and a political system that is just plain not working, but what do you do about the millions of people who are just driven hither and dither by whatever market force comes along?
check out Stossel's basic argument. have no perspective on whether his points make sense or not, just though it would help to hear his own argument on the matter instead of repeating our own arguments over and over.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=3580676&page=1
Stossel is an assclown. Even giving him benefit of doubt, (which he hardly deserves) i fail to see how he thinks he is in any way better than Michael moore in his own mind.
he does everything he would accuse Moore of doing, cherry picking facts, having agenda etc.. Which means at best he knows he is intellectually dishonest and is lying about it, or he is so myopically stupid he doesn't know the difference.
he is also is a Grade A Dick where Moore isn't
And don't forget John "You use cloth diapers!? Yuck!!" Stossel.
Lets put the next landfill in your neighborhood John.
orion @ 8:
Bingo. I saw this load of bull program also and it took about 10 seconds to recognize that it was just more of his corporatist propaganda. Good letter by Julie Pierce, of course she will never get a response, selfish sociopaths like Stossel and his Ferengi like brownshirts only care for themselves and their profit.
I can't say for certain, since I've only seen the film and not Stossel's piece, but I continue to wonder whether Tracy Pierce was denied treatment because he's African-American, and thus, with Julie, in a bi-racial marriage. I'm sure the hospital board who made the ultimate decision would vehemently insist that that wasn't the case, but I think we all know how subconscious prejudices - or bigotry in this case - often rise to the surface, particularly in instances like this.
asoudiere@hotmail.com @ 1:
rupubs = Love the fetus, hate the child.
Who's television network is it anyway?
Oh, I know Diane, it's soooooooooooooo complicated, it's hard to use your brain on this issue!
Tell it to us John Fossil, tell us why you're not even worth a wooden nickel in today's corporate sponsored media mindfuck machine.
Scoop @ 49:
It's a chump, not a choice!
It always amazes me that the people in Congress-most of whom are wealthy-get life time paid health insurance. They can certainly afford to pay for their own whereas there are so many people who work, have families but still can't afford heath insurance because it takes most of a families paycheck. That's even if the company they work for even offers health insurance any more. And more and more insurance companies refuse to pay for treatments just like this lady. It's a shame what this country has come to when our tax money is being spent on a war instead of it's citizens.
I wrote to ABC at least 10 years ago complaining about Stossel's half truths and straight lies but they continue to put this monkey (sorry, monkeys) out there to spew his venom. I believe in free speech but they need to make some kind of disclaimer, like "this is one man's opinion not based on any known facts". ABC has had a history of truth distortion-remember the 9/11 movie? I will no longer watch a movie that has Harvey Keitel in it. He has lost a fan. Boycott ABC. And lets not forget many of the other celebrities who continue to drink the Kool-Aid-boycott them all-Kelsey Grammer, Patricia Heaten, James Belushi, Morgan Brittany, Dana Carvey, Lara Flynn Boyle, Kurt Russell, Tony Danza, Tom Selleck, Scott Baio (like that one's a problem), are just a few that I have found. Stop watching these people. Let them know that if they continue to support those kinds of policies, then they pay the price of losing viewers & maybe soon they too will have the health care crisis at their doors.
I have been boycotting local and national companies for years that I know to be big Republican backers. It's past time to hit them where it will hurt them most, their pocket books.
19 Yonatan Says: We want “Dr. D” David Schultz! We want “Dr. D” David Schultz! We want “Dr. D” David Schultz!
http://www.rfvideo.com/index.a.....rodID=3037
Maybe that's why Stossel is such a dick to people who want to go see health care professionals. After all, *HE* got his sorry little ass kicked by a Doctor.
He is ling big time. If your problem is minor you get in line.
Last month I broke a tooth late after noon, I phoned the doc to make a appointment
next day. After 15 minute´s a´ cab arrived. In 45 minute´s I was in the chair.
I got my new tooth tree days later. 0,00$....
If I had been on miner wage ore unemployed I would have got a paid day off.
Stosssssssssssssel, that whiny voice. He is such a free market ideologue.
Way to go ABC! Ever since the flap about the abominable "The Path to 911" miniseries, I have not watched anything on the network.
Now they come out with this, using stossel, one of the smarmiest jerks they could find to shill for the healthcare and insurance industries. Thanks for giving me another reason to NOT watch ABC.
The Canadian healthcare system, although it is not the best with respect to wait times for care, provides everyone access to the care. There are not millions and millions of uninsured Canadians, who have no access of any kind to healthcare, as there are in this country.
When will the US finally realize that this is NOT the best country in the world in which to live? I know it is hard for the once renowned "beacon of freedom" - the USA - to accept just how far this country has fallen in all respects - from world respect, to finance, to morality, to fitting into the world community, etc.
Django20912 @ 48:
I think that was indeed a factor. She said as much.
Stossel has a whiny voice that just goes all over me. Typical NeoCon.
SickofitAll @ 53:
Like any of those has-beens are a problem not watching. ABC...Already Bottomed-out Celebrities.
Every piece he does should come with a disclaimer telling the viewer that he's long been a hardcore Con. At least that way people will know that they're being propagandized.
Stossel > Scumbag
I lived in France from 1992 through 2000 and never waited once in line to see a doctor.
No surprise that WSJ ran such a story. It's a Murdoch company isn't it, same owner as Faux Noise?
"I cannot believe that a publication like the Wall Street Journal would print such an accusation without talking to anyone involved"
This just goes to show our worst fears are being realized - now that Murdoch owns WSJ, it is going to become a political trash-talk tabloid, a vehicle for exactly the kind of crap Stossel espouses.
Thanks noen no.32. He does remind me of a 70's porn star! Perhaps Hairy Reems, no offense Hairy, you were great.
John Stossel is diabolical. You can see him engineering his hit pieces, selectively editing to prove his point. He wishes he was Michael Moore. I can't believe a major news organization, even in these Fox times, would have such a blatantly dishonest lothario on its airwaves. What an evil piece of shit. I wish he'd go interview a professional wrestler again. Honestly, I abhor violence, except when it is directed at John Stossel's smug face.
1 thing i felt i had to submit in th 1st few seconds of the Stossels report,,
coming from th UK, i found it both hilarious and agravating that he used reports of over long waiting lists, and th rediculous conditions of Britain's so called dental service as examples of how government sponsored health care is a failure.
he blatantly ignores th simple fact that th reason th UKs National Health service, once th pride and joy of popular socialism, is in such a state, is because it has been gradually eroded over th last 20 years by th unpopular intergration of free market style administration.
(ps: Long Live John Stewart)
I agree with the previous poster who said Stossel looks like a 1970s gay porn star. Nice Village People mustache, douche bag!
Notice that these right-wing hacks always attack the waiting times of England and Canada, which has state-run hospital systems. In contrast, countries like France, Belgium, and New Zealand all have state covered health INSURANCE, which is what we are talking about in this country. Anyone who has had medical problems in those countries knows that the waits are not a problem and they work BEAUTIFULLY. But I guess that wouldn't make a great story for an idiot like Stossel, so like any good right-wing "reporter" he just ignores those examples that goes against his argument.
My favourite John Stossel peice is where he gets slapped twice in the head by a wrestler after telling him he thought wrestling was fake.
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.
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As a Canadian, I really have to laugh at this piece.
Going to Montana to have a baby?!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!
I pity you Americans for having such a corporate media. Incredible!!!
.
.
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J-J-J-John S-S-S-Stossel is a turd.
Damn! - eat that , Stossel.
A better person for you to contact, Ms. Pierce, may be Ted Koppel.
And to you, STOP George at post #70 above - I've lost the context in which you are speaking, but employing the phrase LMAO seems inappropriate.
The UK NHS was underfunded during the Margaret Thatcher years. When Labour came to power, they promised to improve the service. That's where Stossel gets some of his press cuttings from.
Speaking as an Englishman, I would not swap the NHS for what Americans have today. No way.
"John Stossel"... I think I'll use that in place of "Cu-"... er, the infamous "C" word.
The only trouble I can see arising from this brilliant idea is with situations like "John Stossel, what a complete John Stossel he is".
I lost my wife to colon cancer last spring. She was 46.
My heart goes out to Julie Pierce and her family.
I hope John Stossel lives to be a very old, very sick man.
This guy should have used his fist:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C35wyVQxXUA
I don't blame the Wall Street Journal and chastising the insurance industry for being a profit industry is not a fair stance.
There are thousands of cures out there but the insurance industry can't reimburse all possible cures. If that was the case, then who is going to pay for it.
A few years ago, I had a wealthy friend who died from pancreatic cancer. He underwent an elective surgery that he paid for because the insurance company wouldn't reimburse. The procedure prolonged his life for 3 months. Should the insurance company pay for this type of procedure.
In the case of the doctors saying that a bone marrow transplant for Mr. Pierce would have a good chance of success, on what evidence did they arrive at that conclusion. Of course, that letter was anecdotal opinions of success and the doctors know that. It probably didn't include any scientific, placebo controlled data of bone marrow transplants succeeding in similar cases to Mr. Pierce's.
We must all have great compassion for Mr. Pierce. However, concluding that insurance companies must reimburse every possible cure without conclusive reliable scientific evidence to back it up is not a defensible position.
I'm no fan of John Stossel, but I'm no fan of having government run health care either. WE ARE NOT currently a free market system when it comes to health care.
[deleted - check your attitude. Do not insult the posters here, read the commenting policy.]
Ken M @ 77:
The point of SiCKO is not that insurance companies should be compelled to throw away money on low-probability treatments; the point is that the insurance company-based healthcare system that we have is inadequate, and that we need to move to a single-payer system like most other Western industrialized nations.
Wishing these mental fuckstick's illness is pointless...repugs are already sick. They have a contagious mental illness that removes the ability to reason or understand things like 'empathy' and 'compassion'. It also removes their internal value system and replaces it with a plastic dashboard jebus [with pants around his ankles if they happen to be in government] and a giant dollar sign.
Ken M @ 77:
In cases like Mr. Pierce, I much, much prefer to rely upon "some" scientific studies as to
treating his illness instead of the pseudo, mythology of praying to some puported guy upstairs walking around on clouds who is going to take care of us.
JudyLou @ 58:
I think that was indeed a factor. She said as much.
The point was made quite clear in the film, yes. It's missing from her letter, however. She may have considered it OT to include it, but - I feel - to leave it out here makes the letter that much less powerful.
Dianne Saywer, "Thank heaven your doing this."
Both of these people have greath health care bennefits.
I have no health care. There is no line for me to stand in.
David @ 73:
I don't blame you, man. My mother can't even get her insurance to pay for the antihistimines needed for her extremely bad allergies.
vickif @ 52:
You want to talk about awaste of taxpayers money- Why am I paying for their healthcare, most of them are millionaires. My families been struggling to get by for the past four years, while my tax dollars were being spent on keeping a 100 year-old racist doucebag like Strom Thurmand alive.
As for ABC, it's all right wing propaganda now, it's just as bad as the Fake News Network. Boycott them both.
Ken M @ 77:
There is nothing inherently evil about being a for profit business, however in the Pierce's instance there was credible evidence backed by medical professionals to support their case. It was the insurance company's subjective determination to deny this treatment, and to say that this industry relies exclusively on empirical, scientific data to make decisions is ludicrous. There is evidence (see Sicko, for example) to indicate otherwise.
Nobody is suggesting that insurance companies issue blank checks for all cures. The point is that first and foremost, they are a customer focused service business that keeps their customer as the center, not their EPS.
Tim @ 69:
I live in New Zealand. The health care system here is atrocious. 6 month waits for chemotherapy is the norm. We have plenty of people dying on waiting lists over here. Plenty of people denied treatment that's deemed 'experimental', even if it's the norm in other countries.
Tell you what, the first side that realises that their ideal system doesn't exist yet will have the best chance of winning this argument, and the best chance of making some real change.
The funny thing is that I missed the part where Stossel said how great the US healthcare system is. I think his point (at least in that clip) was that it's silly to point to other countries and pretend as if they have it all figured out. They don't.
Ed @ 87:
Okay, whats wrong with France and Belgium then?
re: #77
you make a good point...however, there's very little "conclusive reliable scientific evidence" in the realm of cancer treatment. It's the profit motive that forces doctors and hospitals to advocate for treatments that prolong life (but not cure cancer). And it's the profit motive that oftentimes forces insurance companies to deny those treatments.
Imagine having cancer, and being told "there is a treatment available that could quite possibly prolong your life, but unless you can pay for it yourself, you're not going to get it." And maybe your daughter is getting married soon....or your son will be graduating from college...
Take away the profit motive, and take care of people. Just because it's the right thing to do. What is so damned hard about that?
Stossel must have decided on this career after flunking out of Porn School. The man is an idiot.
We carry our own insurance because we are self-employed. It cost over $10,000 per year in premiums. In April, my husband had to have triple by-pass and he received excellent care from the hospital and is doing well. But, oh my god, since that time I have been dealing with the insurance company and 12 different providers. The bill has totaled over $120,000 and my insurance will pay 70% after our rather large deductable. We will be paying that off for a very long time and if either of us gets sick again, well, we will just have to die. Yea - America has a great health care system if you own an insurance company or a drug company or a hospital. Our Health Care system is run by pirates and bandits who own our representatives.
So was this piece preceded or followed by an ad for one of the following:
Merk, Partnership For Prescription Assistance (my personal favorite, this should be singled out for an award), Viagra, Levitra, Boniva, Prilosec, etc...
What percent of the TV ad revenue, especially for the cable news channels, is paid for by the drug companies?
Stossle is a right-wing PUTO. It is impossible for me to become bored of watching that wrestler slap the shit out of him....
Way to smack him down, Julie. Stossel is a puppet of the corporate idiots who think they run things. They don't unless we let them.
As for the Wall Street Journal, isn't that tabloid owned by the hack known as Rupert Murdoch? If so, that explains why they didn't contact Julie or her husband's doctors. They don't need to... hack journalism doesn't have to check facts... they make it all up as they go along.
Stossel, this is for you. STFU you a$$hat! Are you looking for that new posting over at the White House? The one vacated by your colleague in hack journalism, Tony Snow? There's a very hot place in hell waiting for the likes of you both.
I forgot about the insurance companies, which seem to be every fourth or fifth ad as well.
Stossel has a credibility problem. Because he may be one of those people that are afluent with health care. Having the money usually goes with health care.
So he would have no problem opposing any change to address high medical costs, high premiums, high risk or denial of care. Lets face it he doesn't care of others in need. Uf he did care, he would be doing a piece on how it can be done.
It wouldn't surpise me that Stossel is paid somehow via the medical and insurance companies. Anyone that looks toward health care change best get used to these sort of media pieces in favor of health care industry status quo except for more profit..................
here's a link that works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrX9Ca7LSyQ
Shorter Stossel, ABC, Libertarians, Republicans and the Corporatocracy:
"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"
MargeAggedon @ 80:
You SAID it!!!! Absolutely right on!!!
People like Stossel are the reason I keep a baseball bat in the trunk of my car...you never know when you're gonna meet up with them and need to be ready.
Michael @ 91:
Not certain this will answer your question, but you can find out how much the pharmasecuitcal companies "give" to both parties by going to www.opensecrets.org
For example, during 2006, Drug/Phara Companies donated $19.6 Million to both parties;
with 67 percent of such contributions being made to the Republican Party.
Huh. I didn't know Mark Spitz was a journalist.
Michael @ 94:
Yep, and again going to www.opensecrets.org, you will find that the Insurance Industry
gave $20Million during 2006; of which 67 percent went to the Republican Party.
Stossel just isn't as good as he thinks he is. How can he slam Julie Pierce without even talking to her beforehand?
That wouldn't even get a passing grade in freshman journalism. What a no-talent hack.
[deleted - do not advocate violence here.]
Professor Farnsworth @ 88:
Honestly, that's a silly question to ask someone who lives in New Zealand. But since they were both carelessly lumped together with NZ - 7 the poster couldn't have been more wrong about NZ, I'm sure if I lived in France and then in Belgium, I could point out the obvious flaws in using them as ideal models to emulate.
It's funny, I get the same thing here you know. Someone just told me how yeah, NZ's healthcare has plenty of problems, but England has got it down just right. It's real easy to point to a far away place & make up shit about it. And it's real easy to live somewhere and tell people how great your country is, and leave out all of the flaws (consciously or subconsciously).
In other words, if the US wants a great healthcare system, it needs to figure out how best create one, and not just copy a system from somewhere else.
And the trickiest part is that it has to work in America - not just in an America with a Democrat controlled white house & congress. It's got to fit, and it's got to be something that the righties can live with, or else they'll just gut it the next time they regain complete control. And in the end, what would be the point of that kind of system.
Ed @ 105:
You've yet you answer my question
What is wrong with France and Belgium? I mean, we all know nothing, compared to your large mind.
You know Michael Moore is doing something right. He's pissing off all the right people. Notice how his interview was edited down to one sentence. I loved how Moore took down CNN a few months ago.
Curtilingus @ 101:
Spitz? John Oates.
Thanks for posting this.
The guy is a joke. Every story gets more and more unbeleivable. He advocates bringing back DDT.
This is no joke.
The only reason freaks of nature like Stossel and the like exist is to clarify for us, and make us think thoroughly through to what matters.
Decency. Generosity. Kindness.
I have 10 more months to wait until I can see my dentist. Oh sure I could go in a couple months if I want to pay out the ass, but I have insurance for a reason and that means I have to wait longer. With universal care I'd be in sooner.
Stossel is a liar. One of my close is a Canadian. Her mom had gone through numerous procedures to extend her life because of a brain problem. Because of the universal system their family didn't go into poverty. Stossel would like people to choose between paying for a life saving medical treatment or paying for a mortgage.
Don't expect Mr. Stossel to ever apologize, he is way too busy to check his facts. Healthcare? We have 36 other countries in the world where citizens get better healthcare than in this so-called bastion of technology and advances.
Is this before or after Murdock bought them?
Ed @ 87:
No. His point is that people will only help people for profit. Which means he's probably a Christain because Jesus would only heal people for a pro....wait a second. Jesus didn't ....Hey, these assholes are trying to screw us!!!
Ken M @ 77:
Well it wouldn't be if they did what they were supposed to do to earn those profits. They don't. They are parasites.
Nice straw man. Who said they have to "reimburse all possible cures"? Nobody. But they refuse to reimburse things that are known to work.
I fail to see how your cute little anecdote proves anything. How much would that 3 months have cost? You can't even give a dollar amount to support your argument. $2000, $50000, something we could compare three months of life to. But your friend could afford it, and you can't put together a simple sentence so I assume your friends are not too wealthy, so if three months of someone's life is that cheap, the answer to your question is yes. I suspect, however, that this guy was not your friend at all.
LOL! We're supposed to just buy your anecdotal evidence about your friend paying out of pocket and "wasting" his money for three extra months of life, and then you blithely assume that a letter from a clinic has no clinical evidence to back it up and must be anecdotal.
You have no compassion at all for him, you liar.
ok, I'll say it slowly this time: I don't know. Haven't been there. Haven't used their healthcare systems. You shouldn't look to me for information on France (and you could probably do better than to look to Michael Moore for advice about France).
Mr. Stossel also did a report on how conservatives are more giving to charities than liberals. In the piece, Mr. Stossel set up a Salvation Army bell ringer in the conservative small city of Sioux Falls, South Dakota and another bell ringer in the more liberal larger city of San Francisco. Then Mr. Stossel monitored which of the two bell ringers took in more money.
I emailed Mr. Stossel calling out the BS of this piece. From the Salvation Army's website, here is their mission:
Also, the Salvation Army has a history of anti-gay activities:
http://www.americablog.com/2004/11/details-of-salvation-armys-rabidly.html
Is it any wonder that an evangelical group that hates gay people would not do so well at raising money in San Francisco? So I asked Mr. Stossel to do a retraction of his very biased attempt to claim that conservatives are more giving than liberals.
He didn't respond to me either.
John Stossel is a right-wing blow-hard who doesn't answer to anyone. I foresee Fox News in his future.
How long do people who don't have insurance have to wait for an appointment?
My partner had to wait 7 weeks to get a colonoscopy--and he has private insurance. I have insurance and I have to wait up to 5 weeks to get a suspicious mole looked at by my dermatologist and I have insurance!
i have to make my dental appointments 6 months in advance. And if you want to go to a quack or someone you are unsure of you might be able to see them within the month.
John Stossel is anti-gay, a neo-con, and a tool of the right-wing.
When will mainstream American media pay for its crimes? Sure, they failed the American people and shrugged off their journalistic standards of excellence, but the media moguls and their high-up employees who control the few mainstream US news agencies also committed crimes against humanity by enabling this war through printing uncontested propaganda and lies and actively pushing the Bush Administration's agenda. Some heads need to roll for this!
Do great big Geraldo mustaches restrict blood flow to the brain? I'm just surprised that he hasn't gone on record denying the Holocaust - I guess there isn't any profit in it.
lwps @ 109:
hi.
You suck.
Widespread DDT use in Africa would save about a million lives a year.
The World Health Organization now supports using DDT to fight Malaria.
I know you love baby seals and spotted owls, but DDT can save millions of real human lives & prevent massive suffering.
This discussion is about compassion for other people as opposed to mindless allegiance to an ideology regardless of how many deaths result.
"And the actual program was just more of the same: ridiculing Moore and touting the excellence that competition and profits bring our healthcare system."
US:
- 16% of GDP goes to health care
- overhead cost of private insurance extremely high, over 25%
- very poor cost control
- 47 million uninsured
- 10s of millions more underinsured, routinely denied service due to "pre-existing conditions"
- huge cost of insurance contributes to record bankruptcy rates, sub-prime mortgage crisis
- high infant mortality relative to all other industrial nations
Canada:
- 8% of GDP spent on health care
- overhead cost of insurance less than 2%
- good cost control
- all citizens have insurance; there is only one insurance pool in each province, so denial of coverage and "pre-existing conditions" are unknown
- cost of insurance is extremely reasonable and is provided free in many provinces
- very good relative performance on infant mortality, cancer and cardiac mortality
Case Closed. Single-Payer wins, hands down.
Ed @ 122:
Hmm, that attitude seems remarkably selfish, and a good illustration as to why our environment is on the verge of collapse.
Dennis @ 118:
Thanks....very good observation w/respect to the "unbiased/unslanted"(haha) piece done
by Stossel as to who are the most generous contributors. And those who allege that the MSM is "liberal"...what world do they live in? Certainly not reality.
Ken M @ 77:
Oh please. Now it's dragging in the endless unknowables to obfuscate on the actual disgusting truth of the matter. ALL medical procedures have unique results with each individual. You are not in a position to comment on Mr. Pierce or anyone else for that matter. There is never any "proof" that any procedure can work. The guy microwaving his lunch at the insurance company doesn't give a shit about suffering any more than YOU do.
You're just common.
The Institute of Medicine’s extensive study of health care quality found that there is not a gap, but a chasm, between the quality of care that Americans should receive and the quality of care that most actually do receive. Undertreatment, not just overtreatment, is pervasive. The best American health care is world-class, but the average quality leaves much to be desired. A recent RAND study of thirty types of preventive, acute, and chronic care in twelve metropolitan areas found that Americans receive, on average, only about 55 percent of the care that is suggested by established medical standards.
More Healthcare problems here.
http://www.hbs.edu/rhc/scoping.html
If it was Stossel's wife being denied a bone marrow transplant you can bet we'd hear a different tune from the little windbag. I'm ashamed to say I used to like him some years ago. Geraldo has more credibility than Stossel and that ain't sayin' much.
He used that poor woman and her family. What a shameful thing to do.
You must be one of those blog posters who get hired to post garbage to blogs by some corporate master.
Ken M @ 77:
That's bullshit from many different angles. We pay for our insurance. We pay for insurance so that when it comes time that we need that coverage the fucking insurance company pays out. We pay them untold billions of dollars to ensure that we have coverage too. I don't give a damn whether they're for profit or not. We pay for them for a service and when it comes time for that service to be provided they're not fucking doing it. So don't give me a bunch of nonsense about not blaming the insurance company for being a profit industry. That's a crock and a copout. Either they provide the service they are paid for or their licenses to practice their business should be removed.
Moore is right, removing the profit motive for letting people just DIE is the only way to move forward. This is a human being here. Not just some number on a chart.
Remove the fact that this insurance company basically signed the man's death warrant for a second and look at it from a purely consumer perspective. If you go to McDonald's and pay for a Value meal and they take your money and then refuse to give you the meal are you going to just sit there and accept that? Would McDonald's be able to continue selling burgers if they refused to ever hand them over after they took the money?
No. But that's exactly what insurance companies are doing. Whether it is hurricane Katrina victims or people dying of potentially treatable diseases. They look for every possible loophole and legal angle to avoid providing the service for which they've been paid. It's not good business practice to fuck over your customers like that. It's immoral, unethical and you are supporting it.
Yes. That's precisely what we're paying all those premiums for. That's why we have deductibles. They make untold billions of dollars on us when pay every month and we don't get sick. When we get sick, they should keep their end of the bargain and pay the claim. If I break my leg and go to the emergency room and get a cast then the following year break that same leg again they should have to pay for that too. What the fuck am I paying them over $500 a month for if they're not going to pay my claims? The health insurance companies are in the business of keeping people HEALTHY. If they can't do that, then they need to be put out of business completely. They may have a responsibility to their shareholders but they have a greater responsibility to the CUSTOMERS.
In case you're incapable of reading what she said, they 'cited strong evidence'. Then of course there's the reason of they're fucking doctors you douche bag. The MD on the wall is unlikely to have been obtained from a cereal box. Am I to accept an insurance agent's word, a person who requires only a certification from the state at best, on whether or not a treatment will work? A person who's sole purpose is to NOT pay my claim.... over a person who spent upwards of 10 years , hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours studying disease in all forms? You're a moron! Think about it from your own perspective... if you're laying on the table who do you want cutting you open? A surgeon or some fucking bean counter who only knows how much profit he can wring from your demise?
Nothing in science can be proven with absolute certainty. So I suppose we should just ignore gravity too?
LIE.
We're not talking about having a witchdoctor stand over them shaking a dead chicken. Though a lot of insurance companies WILL pay for that and other bullshit holistic treatments. Why? Because they're cheaper! We're talking about a viable scientific treatment that may well have saved this man's life. There are no guarantees with any treatment. There is no such thing as a 100% cure. The standard of proof you are asking for is impossible. If you are not going to accept the word of the very people studying the disease and it's possible treatments especially when they cite evidence to back up their opinions then there is no reasoning with you.
Ed @ 122:
Isn't DDT legal in Africa?
I am not advocating violence but I would not be overly upset if that wrestler came back and finished the job.
I lived in Germany and Ireland and these claims about National Healthcare are pure unadulterated bullshit. While waits do occasionally happen they are not the typical experience and waiting a few weeks for non essential care beats not getting it at all.
Stossel is an idiot. The sad thing is he was working during the Clinton years, so his chances of getting fired because Bush is gone is pretty low. He's been creaping around saying obviously stupid stuff for years, I have no idea why. When I'm watching a tv show and someone says something checkably false, I have trouble believing anything they say, he usually does the Platonian logic of if you believe this than this must be true, or here is something I didn't research that verifies my next line. As I said an idiot, that is strangely still on TV. Love that wrestler smackdown though.
I see Stossel didn't hesitate to employ that old "wait times" canard. ATTENTION, right-wing trolls, understand this: Wait times and rationing are a part of EVERY system. The U.S. has it just like everybody else. The difference between U.S. and Canadian systems - actually the U.S. system and that of any other industrialized country - is that U.S. rationing of health care is based on ability to pay. If you're poor and/or without health insurance, you don't get valuable health care.
To restate, so you right-wingers, might finally get this into your heads: The fact that a publicly-funded health care system has waiting lists PROVES NOTHING.
Got that, righties? Good.
Another thing about this is encouraging people to think once, twice, thrice about available drugs shot thru the FDA's full knowledge these newer poisonous concoctions are going to kill a lot of people, then bail on responsibility once their profits are made and the gov't caps claims.
Just ask John Edward's wife. The hormones she used to have her babies is at the cost of her life. Were she properly aware she would likely die from this type of treatment she would have chosen other methods, or adjusted to having one daughter and adopting instead.
When I see the Edwards family I see honesty that can only be derived from being devastated.
Universal Health Care will move us away from these monstrous chemicals toward more preventative, commonsense care.
When it's time to give up, we can give up. No big deal.
Doggiebobo @ 100:
I really don't care about what goes to the parties. I think too many people on both sides are already bought and paid for. The problem is that the media is also bought and paid for. The entire system is rigged to favor large corporations. The question is how do we as individual citizens grab that power back? With big pharma and insurance funding nearly every single cable news and a large percent of network news programming what do we expect to see except "hit pieces" that make the advertisers happy?
World ban on DDT is US only, but unlikely to do the massive spraying that was done in the 40's and 50's. WHO is advocating indoor use in epidemic areas currently. DDT kicks ass, but so do many chemicals that ultimately can screw up the environment if used in excess.
This asshole couldn't find one positive part
of the Canadian Health care system.
It is an unfair and unbalanced report!
Some say the push to advertise prescription meds is just a way to bribe news organizations to not investigate them.
Ed @ 105:
That is an excellent post and brings some badly needed perspective here.
Stossel is a HUUUUGE coke head. Someone should do a story about that.
Wow.
Some people seem to believe that "the market" and freedom is evil. Technically, the fear of freedom is called "Eleutherophobia". Hopefully Phizer is developing a medication to combat this disorder. (They'd sell a few bottles and I own their stock!)
Perhaps freedom even seems like the silliest of notions. But capitalists have dropped the ball on communicating why freedom is so important and we need to stand up each time we see this collectivist bunk and call it out. Of course, collectivists have learned how to package their arguments through attractive concepts and clever catchphrases. But for those with freedom a prime directive and a clear mind, these arguments are always disproven.
What can you do? Read and think for yourself. Get yourself to amazon or your local bookstore and read Henry Hazlitt or Ayn Rand. Then read some history books to see how a few people caused the death of millions through their fascism and collectivisim.
There is no doubt that freedom is difficult to maintain. But the best things in life are worth fighting for.
Better wait than never.
Actually, you do wait in America.
I routinely sat in the doctor's office for an appointment up to four hours.
The closest appointment I can schedule is sometimes more than one month away.
I have watched badly bleeding people wait in an emergency room and told to go elsewhere since they have no insurance (I wonder where he went to wait after that?)
At my mother's walk in clinic, she is only allowed to discuss one medical problem per visit, even if the problems are related. This is because the doctor's time is spread between so many patients.
Some of us will wait all our lives.
This walking, talking porn mustache should take his hackneyed "free market" bullshit and retire to a remote island somewhere. Talk about a rigid, patronizing, condescending, know-it-all hack.
Ed @ 122:
So basically you would save 1 million people by killing orders of magnitude more, right? And WHO is OK with that according to you. Oh, please keep on pulling more facts out of your arse it is funny... in a sad kind of way.
The reason why DDT was pulled is not because of the spotted owl, or whatever other lame pro-business talking point, but because it was making its way into the food and water stream. Thus causing deaths by poisoning, cancer by exposure, and birth defects en masse.
I can see know how 45% of the voting public is dumb enough to be brain washed by the GOP and vote against their interests. I used to feel sorry, until I realize you guys are willfully ignorant and proud of it.
I caught Stossel a few years back, saying, literally -- not figuratively or in effect, but *literally* -- that Al Gore was talking about global warming because Al Gore is/was a socialist out to destroy the American way of life.
When that's what comes out of your mouth, you and your 70's porn moustache need to STFU immediamente.
I would like to see some national healthcare system - at least fix the problems of getting people access to basic services they need. It's nice to see someone like Stossel balance out the perspective of Michael Moore. The problem in the US is our INSURANCE INDUSTRY - they either need to be strongly regulated or nationalized. It's impossible for individuals to negotiate with these big firms to get the services they need in a timely manner.
But we need to BUDGET the amount that will be spent, which, in some cases does mean that some treatments will not be covered (if they are too expensive or unlikely to prolong the patient's life significantly).
"I pray that you will never have to go through what we went through ..."
I hate to disagree with Ms. Pierce, and I know that the late politician whose name I'm using wouldn't feel this way, but I hope Stossel does have to go through a harrowing experience with the health care system. I hope some relative of his, with mediocre insurance, gets told he or she can't get the cancer treatment doctors recommend because the HMO won't approve it.
That's the only way Stossel might learn compassion and (maybe) rethink his position on health care.
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