Criticizing Generals is Just Alright: For Conservatives that is
By John Amato Tuesday Sep 18, 2007 1:01pm
You'd have thought MoveOn sold a copy of "how to make a nuclear bomb in two simple steps" to undesirables the way the media has treated them, but when the "Kristol Conservative"---Michael Ledeen attacks Gen. Abizaid on the pages of the NRO because he had the audacity to say that we could live with a nuclear Iran because we survived the Soviet Union and...he topped it off by saying that war with Iran would be devastating to everybody but that's just fine by the media...
Digby has the details....
This is why the pearl clutching among the right wingers and their media allies is so laughable. On the right, they treat all Generals and troops who disagree with them like garbage, in the most despicable terms possible. Look what they did to John Kerry. Why any DC liberal takes their little "patriotic" game seriously is beyond me.
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I don't trust a nuclear-armed Iran. I'd be much more inclined to pre-emptively strike if we hadn't already made the mistake of invading Iraq and compounded the mistake at every step of the way with gross incompetence. But more than an nuclear-armed Iran, I fear the incompetence of the Bush administration. Congress needs to take away the war-making keys. Let the next president decide what to do about Iran.
it has been said many times, many ways....
the GOP is a gimpish, hypocritical, xenophobic, jingoistic, and sexually-frustrated group of rich, white men (all other members are merely tools for said rich, white men). oh yeah, and they wrap themselves in the flag as they piss on the constitution. they claim to 'support the troops' as they fight to keep the troops in a war based on lies.
I don't trust t nuclear-armed United States either...
right on! @ 3:
er ah... I don't trust a nuclear-armed United States either...
Alas, soon their heads will explode and faux will be forced to remodel their studios on a regular basis
The weapon inspector, ElBaradei, is saying exactly what he said before the Iraq invasion. He's saying to calm down about Iran and they have no nuclear weapons now. Maybe I'm gullible but I believe they want nuclear power for themselves and Iraq.
I imagine the repubs would say it's okay to bash retired generals and ex-members of the military. Anyone presently serving is above reproach.
Must see- Fundie version of "God Bless America"..... "WHY should God Bless America?".
Yes, it may seem like some sort of moral contradiction.
It clears up though when you realize that only right wing kooks and Republican party hacks can be patriots and Gud Amurkans, and everybody else are traitors by default.
This applies to General Petraeus, too. If he should ever happen to decide that Bush Jr's policies aren't the mostest brilliantiest policies ever to be policied up, then he too will suddenly become a dangerous traitor.
If you read his article there are a couple of comments he made which "jumped" out at me... "whose failed strategy in Iraq" referring to General Abizaid. Funny, I thought the General was just carrying out the policies of his "commander-in-chief" and the Rumsfeld DoD.
Secondly, he writes: "It was under Abizaid that the copious evidence of Iranian activity was suppressed..." So is he accusing the General of suppressing evidence, information, intelligence, whatever you want to call it? Why I thought Generals were ABOVE politics, and should NOT be questioned.
And the right (eh WRONG) wing wonders why ANYONE would question General Petraeus. Why, the good General Petraeus would NEVER suppress evidence of what is REALLY going on in Iraq, would he?
I guess the title of the post is CORRECT... It is okay for Republicans to accuse Generals of suppressing information when it SUITS THEIR AGENDA, but boy, if the "Liberals" do it, they are treasonous, unpatriotic America-haters trashing out military once again... what CRAP!!
these connies mocked Kerry's war service with their purple band aids but can't stand when their daddy cult hero David Betray Us gets called on the carpet for his water carrying. Chickenhawks need their daddy Linus blanket to get them through the day. moveon spends 65k and Ari spends 15 million but there is a "liberal media conspiracy" to them
So we are back to the the stage that we were when they were "making the case" for Iraq. These were the same claims they made back then and they shouted down many Generals and others that disagreed with them. What was the result? We all know it and see it daily. I didn't buy Ladeen's claims then about Iraq and I am not about to listen to that clown now.
Of course using nuclear weapons at any time any where is completely insane. Most people understand mutually assured destruction as a deterrent to nuclear war.
The key to using nuclear weapons as a threat is convincing the rest of the world that the guy with his finger in on the button is crazy enough to use them. Ronald Reagan played that game well. I don't think Reagan was crazy enough to pull the trigger, so to speak, but he had the Soviet Union convinced that he was.
Ahmadinejad acts crazy enough to use nuclear weapons but I doubt that he is. He has no interest in having his country reduced to ashes in a nuclear war.
What is scary is that there are people in this country who believe that a nuclear war is winnable. They are already putting in firewood for the nuclear winter to follow. Then we have a president who can't even say nuclear. If he looks Nukuler up in the dictionary he won't find it, so who knows what he thinks it is.
Biggus Diggus @ 1:
Of course, this assumes that Iran is anywhere close to having nukes... just like Iraq was nowhere close to having WMDs.
I think given stop-loss, extended tours, reduced home time, IRR callup, lack of armor, poor medical attention, etc., that the GOP treats *ALL* troops like garbage whether they agree with them or not; the only "extra" that the troopers who disagree get is a tongue-lashing. With friends like the GOP, the troops really don't need any enemies.
Biggus Diggus @ 1:
I would recommend that some Americans need master the basics first, like finding their own country on a map, before sharing their opinion on complex geopolitical issues.
I am still to find a saber rattling American who wants to turn Iran into a glass parking lot who can fully explain me why Iran -a mostly Shia country- would be even inclined to support international Sunni terrorist networks. When the Sunni consider the Shia even lower than Americans in their scale of scum.
Or why the countries which are the center of Shia radical organizations and money, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, are not only let off the hook. But in the case of Saudi Arabia, they are granted billions of dollars in aid, trade, and gained a priority status under this administration to the point of pretty much having Saudi ambassadors granted a level of access never even shared with ambassadors from major US allies. And in the case of Egypt they get to build the M1 tanks that our troops depend on, and are given billions of dollars in aid as long as they promise not to attack Israel.
It would seem to me that the Shias are playing the Americans like a fiddle to the point the get to make them their bidding regarding the heretic Sunni problem.
I don't mind most people in this country dislike for Education, esp anything regarding history, geography, culture, language or anything that can't be directly related to making money (which is their standard of why they should waste their precious time and little minds on). Just don't try to graduate to complex issues like geopolitics and war when you could care less about the rest of the world and the humans who inhabit it.
"On the right, they treat all Generals and troops who disagree with them like garbage, in the most despicable terms possible. Look what they did to John Kerry. Why any DC liberal takes their little “patriotic” game seriously is beyond me."
Very well said.
right... and the same corporate/ repiglican media who ejaculated on themselves over moveon.org totally repressed and ignored the report about petraus's superior, admiral fallon, who called petraus a fucking chicken shit .. a suck up man .. not a mention anywhere except , of course, on keith oberman's show .. this fucking corporate/ repiglican media should be charged, tried, and convicted for purposefull criminal fraud committed against the american people. they are as responsible for the horror story called american as bush and his goons are .. as responsible for iraq as their fuhrer is ... and the ongoing lies, deceit, and propaganda as that fucking shitstain called bush ..
What country has the best and most nuklar weapons?
Should we trust that country?
NO!
Dr. Who @ 15:
I obviously did not get enough coffee... corrected
Blue Buddha @ 13:
The neocons want to bomb Iran, but Iran's program is years away from developing a bomb so they may have come up the North Korea connection to make the threat more immediate. After all, George Bush is only gonna be in office for another 16 months, and it's not likely the next president will be as gullible.
As usual the media never asks the essential questions.
If Iran and Syria can get enough fissionable material to build a bomb from North Korea, as John Bolton suggests, then bombing Iran's nuclear facilities would be an exercise in futility. It could start a war without stopping a bomb.
If Iran's only intent was to build a bomb, and they could get the necessary fissionable material from North Korea, why would they go through all of the expense and effort to enrich uranium? It seems like they would want to keep a bomb project a secret, and they can't do that by building huge nuclear facilities all over their country.
Rank (pun intended) hypocrisy on the right is no surprise. However, in this case (and in the Kerry case you also cite), the military men that the right-wingers criticized were retired. Petraeus is actively commanding our troops in Iraq. Won't the right-wingers be able to point to that difference and say that you're comparing apples and oranges? Maybe you can dig up some examples where the right-wingers criticized our active generals. I wouldn't be surprised if this happened during the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo, and probably more recently as well.
To me they a "patriotic pedophiles". They drape themselves into the flag and rape it by doing so.
Do they do anything for the country. Is the war being paid for?
No it is all dept, for the future generations to bear !
I wonder how many Republicans would "gladly" pay a war-(or as they might call it "freedom")-tax,
to pay for George Bush'e never ending (orwellian) war.
As John Edwards said in his TV add, Bush gives us but one thing : more war.
That is why the Republican Party should be actively promoted as the War Party by the Democrats.
The point of the whole MoveOn static isn't so much about the "pearl-clutching" as having a useful talking point to manipulate whenever some republico gets within 10 meters of a soapbox. It's just more ordinance for these unscrupulous and devious bastards to rain on the heads of feckless democrats and progressives.
There is NO media.
Let's just start calling the MSM ... Government Stenographers.
It's that simple.
This guy makes Kristol look like Winnie the Pooh!
Earlier in his career, Ledeen authored Universal Fascism: The Theory and Practice of the Fascist International, 1928-1936, published in 1972 and now out of print. The book, which was his doctoral dissertation, was the first work to explore Mussolini's efforts to create a Fascist international in the late 1920s and early 1930s. Ledeen follows Italian historian Renzo de Felice in drawing a distinction between "fascism-regime" and "fascism-movement", and seems to approve of at least one aspect of the latter, saying "fascism nevertheless constituted a political revolution in Italy. For the first time, there was an attempt to mobilize the masses and to involve them in the political life of the country", and describing the fascist state as "a generator of energy and creativity".[4] Ledeen continued his studies in Italian Fascism with a biography of Gabriele d'Annunzio, who Ledeen argued was the proto-type for Benito Mussolini.
Ledeen is a strong admirer of Niccolò Machiavelli, whom he regards as one of the greatest political thinkers. In Ledeen's view, Machiavelli combined democratic idealism and the necessary political realism to secure and defend idealism in perfect measure. It should be noted that the Machiavelli that Ledeen admires is the more the author of the Discourses on Livy than the author of The Prince.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ledeen
I don't want a nuclear armed Iran either. But here's the thing, Ledeen (AEI, closely tied to PNAC) knows very well that there's not a shred of evidence of a weapons program. Like #25 points out, Ledeen is a neocon who admires Machiavelli, he's not about telling the truth. His motives are the American Empire, getting to the oil and "protecting" Israel. Iran is just Iraq redux.
..infact Iran doesn't even have a Saddam. Not a threat in the slightest. And all talk about Iran and terrorism is questionable at best. I "sense" office of special plans at work. And perhaps P2OG as well.
Hey, it all makes sense to the trolls and neocons. This country is so confused and ignorant about the games the neocon propaganda machine plays with their minds, it's embarrassing. We truly are a nation of idiots. Overweight and getting dumber by the minute, thanks to rove and co.
Criticize Generals anytime you want. This is a free Country.
Progeny of Gepetto -- by David Podvin
Patriotism is for idiots. Think planet earth. We all share it, we all have a right to be here. The end.
There is a huge difference between criticizing a retired general and launching extreme left-wing attacks on the man currently in harms way.
But then, you knew that.
after ledeen's niger yellowcake fraud, perhaps 25 years in prison will help him collect his thoughts. why are these conspirators above the law?
Bronze Star with Valor Device, somebody maybe isnt entitled to wear this medal...
not if the journalists are to be believed.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/19/22357/9565
Now, I am convinced that the people on the right lives in a bubble, they obviously haven't heard the news that MoveOn has been vindicated by the American people. Over 62% did not believe General Patreaus' political report.
Alecia @ 34:
its documented in several places (spring 07) that the GIs in Iraq invented the snarky name for Gen. Petraeus.
MoveOn was so right to speak out and I hope that they all with all the other bloggers with the money and the courage to stand up to big bad media, who will not.
Our Congress members need to follow the leadership of the good Congresswoman Barbara Lee. She has the guts and the courage to get in the face of these right wing republicans, if they would only listen.
Tuesday September 11, 2007
Barbara Lee: Petraeus Walks in Powell’s Footsteps
(Oakland, CA) – Congresswoman Barbara Lee issued the following statement in response to the testimony today of General David Petraeus before a joint session of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committees:
“I am afraid that with his testimony today, General David Petraeus may be following in the footsteps of former Secretary of State Colin Powell and I fear that he may face the same fate, namely that of respected military man whose credibility is forever tarnished for propping up the Bush administration’s disastrous policy in Iraq.
“In fact, the White House’s effort to buy more time for the President’s surge policy is premised on the credibility of General Petraeus himself, and not the string of cherry-picked numbers being deployed this week. If the Pentagon or the administration had any confidence in the numbers that ostensibly show progress – which have been contradicted by every other independent assessment – they would release the data and the methodology used for arriving at them. It is telling that they have not.
“The debate about alleged military progress in Iraq is a distraction – a smokescreen – that only serves to obscure the basic, fundamental fact that there is no military solution to the situation in Iraq.
“Our troops are trapped in a civil war and occupation, a situation where there can be no ‘victory.’ Our continued presence there is not only breaking our military, it is undermining our national security and our efforts to fight international terrorism.
“Congress has the power to end to the Bush administration’s failed policy in Iraq. We should not approve another penny to continue that policy. Instead, we should use our constitutionally-mandated appropriations power to provide all the money necessary to fully fund the safe, timely and responsible redeployment of our troops and contractors from Iraq.”
Citicism of GOP by some is good. By others, basis to deny them Habeas.
The US has always been at war with Eurasia. How's that DHS watch list going?
idiot @ 31:
Petraeus is "in harm's way"? OK, so you are on the record as being afraid of Congressional Democrats. I'm pretty sure that makes you the biggest scaredy-cat in the Western Hemisphere, LOL.
But that's OK, it's surely a good reason to take the word of one "ass-licking little chickenshit" (in the words of Petraeus' boss) over dozens of ex-generals who have nothing to lose by being honest.
Biggus Diggus @ 1:
I don't trust a nuclear armed Pakistan or a nuclar armed Israel or a nuclear armed China. Let's bomb the entire world.
PS: Would it be ok for North Korea to preemtivley invade the U.S. and bomb it, since our dear leader has shown hostility towards N. Korea?
Dennis H @ 31:
"Extreme left-wing"
Really?
Care to qualify that statement? If the majority of the country KNOWS the surge isn’t working and wants us out of Iraq, and Betray Us is deceiving the majority, then how can you label the ad "extreme left-wing"?
Don't you trolls ever think beyond the rhetoric?
I know, don't tell me that this picture of Ledeen was a particularly bad shot
and that the bags under his eyes are due to the struggle against lefty Quaida abetters
and not due to an imbibed bottle of wine. Alcohol really quickens the nerves to lie to the
tune of talking points of right wing agenda and who cares that he is working with DoD
to foster the point of view that massages the Congressional Military Industrial Complex
for which he stands one dictatorship under God indivisable with liberty for none at the end of
a gun.
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