MoveOn.org drives the GOP over the edge
By Steve Benen Tuesday Sep 18, 2007 8:15amI understand that Republicans would rather talk about a controversial newspaper ad than Iraq policy. I even understand why the right wants to demonize an effective and successful liberal activist organization.
But the problem in the wake of last week’s “Betray Us” ad from MoveOn.org is that the GOP just doesn’t know when to quit. They saw an opportunity, took it, and scored a few cheap political points. Instead of, ahem, moving on, conservatives keep going to the well, to the point that it’s now kind of embarrassing.
Last week, Rudy Giuliani suggested MoveOn shouldn’t have free-speech rights. John McCain suggested MoveOn be thrown out of the United States. This week, the Vice President is not only attacking the group; he’s also alleging some kind of conspiracy involving the New York Times. McCain has now incorporated an enlarged poster version of the “Betray Us” ad into his stump speech, and brings his new favorite prop everywhere he goes.
It’s reached the point that the ranking Republican on the House Oversight Committee wants to launch a congressional investigation into whether the NYT violated election law by selling the ad at a reduced rate. Seriously.
Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.) asked committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Tuesday to convene a hearing on the issue, saying that any rate change “for political advertising could constitute an unlawful campaign contribution.”
Now, in the broader context, Davis is running for the Senate, so he has to go out of his way to demonstrate his capacity for nuttiness to the GOP base, but this just isn’t healthy. Criticizing the ad is one thing; letting the ad drive the Republican Party into madness is something else.
In case there’ any lingering confusion here, the charges have no merit.
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The GOP has been over the edge since Eisenhower left office...
Look at their platform in 1872....Hartmann read it and it reads like a human rights pamphlet
How far they have fallen...ideals & policy have been lost and 'principles' & 'politics' have ruled supreme....
Its as though the GOP leadership discovered Tom Tomorrow's "This Modern World" comic strip and, instead of being insulted, said "Yeah, THAT'S what we should do!"
Cheney talking about a NYT conspiracy makes my ass itch. How many times has he used the NYT to betray us? Remember Judith Miller?
He leaked info to the NYT and then quoted "them" on Sunday morning talk shows.
Anyone have a copy of the swiftboat ads? We can blow them up too and use them as a counter point . . . or even put a small jpg (linking to a page with a picture of both the swiftboat ad and the moveon ad, with maybe a question or statement about lying and hypocrasy) on our various A,B,C, D list blogs and web sites.
Can someone do this please?????
Oh and every time a republican talks about his/her digust in the ad, give some money to moveon.
This is all about throwing red meat to the base. They haven't been fed in quite a long time.
All of the tools from yesterday saying that the UF student being tazered got what he deserved need to read this part very carefully.
Ad in the NYT: $x thousand
Driving the GOP further off the cliff of sanity: priceless
:lol:
All of the Fox News "commentators" have been calling on the candidates for the Democratic nomination to "distance" themselves and to "disavow" MoveOn.org, which I find both funny and hypocritical.
I am wondering when the candidates for the Republican nomination will distance themselves from groups such as the Christian Coalition and such. Not before hell freezes over I am sure.
No, the theocratic fascist wing of the Republican party needs to attack what is successful in order to prove their worth. Too bad the so called "independents" over at Fox News can't be honest about it.
ok , ive said this before. even though the general is a political appointment, move on should stop giving gifts to the repubs! There are more effective ways of showing just how biased the whitehouse/generals report is! Now these bastards have fuel for the same old bullshit!
Blue Buddha @ 7:
BRAVO!
Oooo... I wonder if Soros is part of the grand conspiracy.
You mean the NYT charged reduced rates to a non-profit organization? Yes, that does sound suspicious! [/sarcasm]
When a political party consists of nothing but nutz, wackos and dip shits...it's kind of like a child with a mental disorder who gets fixated on a single toy and just can't put it down, even after it's destroyed beyond all recognition. That's the way Republicans act when they find a hot button topic...the flag burning bullshit is a prime example. So it should be seen as a good thing that Move On is able to get the repug's to go all rabid, gnashing their teeth and pulling out their hairs, and I'm sure even more crying on camera (Boehner I'm looking in your direction) Who even takes republicans seriously anymore (I mean other then the threat they are to America)? It's just too bad that we had to get this far gone for most people to see the way.
Nice of them to keep the ad in the public eye. For free and everything. On a different note I'm beginning to understand why the gay ol party is so freaked out by things like Clinton's cleavage...they're jealous. Wish they had it themselves. Especially rudy.
I don't think they scored any points. I think the ad kicked their ass. It has been so long since they have had their ass kicked that they can not react rationally.
These people who think they are in charge of the Universe need to grow up.
As is currently being discussed over at DailyKos, the nickname "Gen Betrayus" has its origins within the troops that served under him.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/18/215826/698
So, who are you going to support: a politically ambitious general or the troops?
Blue Buddha @ 7:
Hehehehehehehehehe! But then... it's not like it's a long trip to the edge from where they are now. A good nudge is all it will take.
"Driving GOP to madness" hmm, i think they may have already been riding on that bus...no problem...and they didn't need help from anyone...I think the real problem for them right now is that NOTHING is ressusitating their party right now...not Freddy...Not a Moveon Ad....Not the War on Terra....not even NEW Been Laden tapes.....and NONE of them wants to be embraced or kissed by Bush, so they are desperately trying to act outraged by an Ad in the paper....
Dear Congressman Waxman,
Please tell the gentleman from Virginia, Congressman Davis, to go fuck himself. Or better yet, tell him you'll schedule hearings on Betrayus-gate for one week following the completion of the hearings on Fox News and every right wing organization's advertising audit.
Personally, I kind of like, "Go fuck yourself." But you're the politician, I'll let you decide.
Regards
We're already living in the world we've been hoping to avoid. All of our rhetoric about fascism, reactionary propaganda, complicity of the media, stolen elections... it's already happened.
Bush has had a private, volunteer army of Christian extremists, harassing and randomly killing his targeted ethnic group since the war began. We've known about it.
Bush has already passed all the "laws" he needs to dodge prosecution for monitoring and detaining people without any judicial oversight.
The police in key areas of the country have been selected and trained to recognize "seditious" free speech and make examples of those who practice it (can't let the 60's happen again).
It's zombies vs. mimes people. They have 25% of this country turned into a zombie army, brainwashed by FauxNews and it's "MSM" underlings. The 25% that actually gives two shits about this country are nothing but mimes. We kept our mouths shut while letting ourselves get trapped in this invisible box, thanks to our adherance to the bullshit politics of the Democratic party. The 50% in the middle, they're totally apathetic now, but they'll be waking up soon when inflation (thanks Fed rate cut), oil prices (pump prices can't be kept artificially low forever while crude prices hit record highs), and the draft for the war in Iran hits.
You have to ask yourself, though, which group will they turn to? Who does the average person hate more: zombies or mimes? Google it. What if, in the middle of all of this, "terrorists" strike again?
Our Reichstag has burnt, our brownshirts already patrol the streets and beating dissidents, and now France is getting on all fours to support our aggression against Iran... reach out and touch that wall people, it's already there.
Can anyone tell me how Mr. Davis, in his infinite wisdom, is going to conduct a congressional investigation when he belongs to the minority party? How many investigations did the Repugs allow the Dems to conduct when THEY had the majority? And are these people REALLY stupid enough not to realize that Giuliani ALSO received the same ad discount as moveon, and that Giuliani's ad was placed on page 9 instead of moveon's page 25, and that any investigation is going to bring this fact to the forefront of public knowledge? It still amazes me how these Repugs have gone so batshit wingnut fucking crazy that they think that the NYT is still a left-leaning newspaper, but maybe after the Repugs keep shitting on them the NYT will finally realize it is not wise to repeat the talking points of a group of people who are certifiably insane. Damn, is this what the Republican Party has been reduced to because of their repeated failures in this country?
All aboard the Crazy Train.
-GSD
The wheels have completely fallen off the right wing bus.
Millions of Americans would never have known this ad existed if a right winger hadn't tried to change the focus from Iraq to moveon.org during congressional testimony.
The American public is beginning to wake up. Now when a republican says "we should be outraged!", the average American thinks "it must be true".
The right wing noise machine has bought moveon more (positive) publicity than they could ever have afforded even if they were paying a discounted rate.
enigma4ever @ 17:
The good news for them is that it'll soon be time to gear up to 'battle' the "war on xmas" again. They'll get at least a point or maybe even two from the remaining wingnut jebus freaks. Hoorah! Rhetoric for all!
I can't help but think the repug theme tune should be a parody of the classic Marley tune... we'll call it "One Hate". It's what brings repugs together.
SonOfLiberty @ 19:
Move On might as well be the Jews, that was supposed to be in there to give my crazy rant contextual validity. Ah well. I hate Nazis so damn much, I lose my mind. It's probably all those Indiana Jones movies, aka Steven Spielberg's Jew propaganda!
Let them investigate The New York Times and while they are at it, they can investigate FAUX "News" which freely and openly advocates for repugs and Bush.
The Republican Morning Prayer:
Please God, in whose existence I do not believe but profess to in order to scam votes from morons, Please let there be something in the press other than Iraq that I can beat to death. Amen.
Dominic P. Lucarelli @ 20:
The chairman should charitably give Mr. Davis his investigation. Talk about a discounted ad rate! Let them spend a week holding up the ad in congress that questions the political motivations of the General.
Will someone please find an advertising agency media director and have that person explain the facts of media pricing life to these idiots?
Oh, never mind, they've made up their "minds" and don't want to be confused with those pesky facts.
I think some point about how this reminds us all of McCarthyism hysteria and fear of free speech is in order.
Also: Sticks and stones, anyone?
Sheesh, grow some thicker skin republicans.
I really love the fact that this is driving goopers crazy. LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT!
Keep it up, MoveOn!
Congress should continue on to investigate the broader media. The amount of conservative vs liberal pundits in columns, on radio and on television. Let's get it all out in the open. This is the best kept secret in America. It still isn't clear to the majority of people in this country just how conservatively biased the corporate media is. Investigate I say! Investigate and publish the results for all to see.
Why didn't General BETRAY US like the ad? I saw nothing misrepresented there... just because that bushbot wears a uniform doesn't make him any less accountable for lying to the public.
MargeAggedon @ 13:
And they wish they'd been Monica, too.
They're overplaying a hand that wasn't very strong to begin with. Waxman should tell that knucklehead to quit his crying and get used to life in the cheap seats.
Of course the Repukes are going off the deep end. The Petraeus report was supposed to be their lynch pin in the fight to keep Iraq going onward. The liberals fired off a well-received preemptive strike that bitch-slapped the Geriatric Obsolete Pedophiles back to square one. Well done MoveOn.org
The Repukes can't stand anyone else calling one of their own unpatriotic. Its nice to see them react so poorly to some of their own medicine.
dirty d @ 9:
If you roll over and give up, they won't respect you, but they'll go back to feeding on each other. The blue dogs are completing the rubber stamp congress, and they get no respect either, for toeing the line on Republican Party agenda. But at least the Republicans don't call them names.
So they've got no one to go after except the Democratic base.
The ad must have worked wonderfuly, as evidenced by the GOP response.
More ads, MoveOn!
How to respond to questions about this (or: How to shut the right wingers up)
"The problem is not that an organization exercised their first ammendment rights by publishing that ad, the problem is that so many people in our country agree that General Petraeus is misleading us about the war in Iraq. The burden is not on us to demonize MoveOn or General Patraeus, but for both parties to make their case to the American people and let them decide."
And if they ask you, "Do you believe he's betrayed us? Do you believe he's cooking the books?"
"Right now, his honor is not in question, his facts are. I believe that in a time of war, with the stakes so high, nobody should be above scrutiny. We all have a duty and a right to look into all of the facts available to us and uncover those that currently are not and come to an informed decision."
Personally, I think the good General is a lying sack of shit desperate for public recognition after a lifetime of service. But, that answer won't fly on the Sunday talk shows.
Well they would rather dwell on the ad than face the facts that what the ad said has proven to have merit and the war is going down the crapper for our military.
I hope Webb's bill gets to the white house and if bush vetoes it, which he says he will do, I think the word betrayal should pop up again. This time who supports the health and well being of the troops and who doesn't? Those who don't, appear to me to be betraying our troops.
The party of hubris and deceit will get what they richly deserve---their paranoid wailing about Move On will actually help Move On. These cowards can't understand why everyone won't adopt their bankrupt philosophy which they feel came directly from the Almighty and act as if theit God anointed them personally in their "holy" mission.
And if these people are really that paranoid and egotistical, there are meds and mental health professionals that can help with that. If not, the voters will deliver a prescription to them in November 2008, at which time they become the permanent minority party.
This whole thing reminds me of the little boy who went around gleefully punching other children in the nose. He was very proud of his punching ability. One day he ran screaming to his mother.
"Billy! What's happened?"
"Johnny hit me back!"
Just like Andrew Meyer who got out something which the majority of americans are too afraid to discuss (the disenfranchisement of 5,000 voters mostly afro-americans, the lack of impeachment calls for Bush right now, and why John Kerry conceeded the election so quickly), MoveOn.org is a thorn in the side of this corrupt GOP. They are "outing" these hypocrites left and right and are taking no prisoners as they cut a legitimate "swath" through the Republican party.
Keep on movin' on, Move.On! Bring it on!! Bush is taking the Republican Party down with him. Bill Maher got it right as he always does.
These are the same people who *supported* the Swift Boaters in '04, so fuck 'em.
There is a coming revolution against those who have trampled our constitution and sabotaged this democracy. Any democrat or democratic presidential candidate who fails to recognize and immediately begin dialogue about how we got into this mess and how we can stop it immediately will be left in the dust. Needless to say, ALL Repuke candidates are wasting their time and money in even campaigning at this point because we all know the REPUBLICANS ARE LIARS AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED.
Bush's legacy (by default) will become: The "inciter" of the coming american revolution.
"Last week, Rudy Giuliani suggested MoveOn shouldn’t have free-speech rights."
Trust me, if Ghouliani gets in, this statement will apply to ALL of us.
Let them start an investigation. Two illegal wars, prison camps, torture,... maybe, finally, somewhere, someone will launch a counter investigation against them & some god damned arrests will be made,...
"When you trade your freedoms for the illusion of "security", you deserve neither - freedom or security. We've lost both under Bush.
They have nothing else, it was the life saving piece of wood that just happened to drift by.
"Let them call me a rebel and welcome, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of devils, were Ito make a whore of my soul." Thomas Paine
If Sally Field can be "censured" on FOX for speaking out against the Bush/GOP oil war then why can't the New York Times have the freedom to set ad prices for MoveOn at what ever it wants? Reich wing "News" outlets want to be free to propagandize and censure but heaven forbid a lee-brul group gets an ad discount and all hell break loose in Wingnutland.
Just a diversion as we all know, pay no attention to the Republican men behind the curtain spending half trillion of our tax dollars,killing our soldiers, destroying our military and running our country into the ground.
VegasRage @ 46:
And in the twisted, delusional world of the Republican, this "piece of wood floating by" will eventually sink them completely. They are so myopic in their headset that they don't realize that the people can see that they have nothing else credible to discuss, no answers to problems, and only bullshit and rhetoric to spew, ad nauseum. This "forest for the trees" mentality illustrated by their jumping head over tea kettle on this MoveOn thorn- in -their -side (the truth hurts, doesn't it?)is illustrative of just how vacuous and empty their side of the accomplishment roster actually is!
Regardless, it was a stupid ad by moveon, which achieved nothing but to give the GOP a great big free kick to the head of its political enemies.
Time some of those guys at "moveon" took their own advice.
Ruthless People @ 48:
Clearly, Wingnutland is imploding when they have to resort to these tactics. The handwriting is on the wall and the fat lady is singing as the S.S. GOP quakes before breaking in two and descending rapidly to twenty thousand leagues under the sea.
Is there something I'm missing here? Does MoveOn=DNC? Does MoveOn=campaign committee for Clinton/Obama/Edwards/et al.?
The biggest fraud here is claiming that MoveOn speaks for any and every Democrat and is essentially an arm of the Democratic National Committee. Is this a true allegation?
If not, why do Democrats defend against the ad as it if were somehow theirs, instead of just saying, "MoveOn can say what it wants; it's a free country; we're not part of MoveOn in any way, shape or form; isn't it nice that we can all speak our minds and buy newspaper ads no matter what the message?"
Ruthless People @ 48:
They are not spending it. They are stealing it.
WTF does the Moveon.org ad have to do with election law? And it's far from unusual for newspapers and magazines to sell ads at a discounted rate. Talk about grasping at straws.
Just wanted to say that in the few hours off from my job today, I flew from Canberra to Sydney to hear Al Gore speak today before flying back to work in Canberra a few hours later. All up, this cost me almost $2000 (Australian) but was totally worth it.
My point is (and the relevance is) that I'm so sorry you didn't get to have him as President instead of the current circus bringing you things like this.
xoites defends Constitution @ 40:
yep....exactly......funny, when you define it like that...it describes them perfectly....................................have a great day folks
gatto @ 50:
Clearly it was not a "stupid ad" by MoveOn.org - in fact, the majority of americans were alluding to Poodle Petreus as "General Betray-us" long before MoveOn jumped on the band wagon. Do some reading sometime. It will help with the credibility of your posting.
Tom Davis announces his need for a hearing on this topic at rather a busy time for the Committee -- what with a renewed Blackwater investigation and the several pending investigations by the Committee, such as the Hatch Act violations, and the massive fraud in Iraqi contracts.
A $65,000 ad, the going rate, versus some percent of $400 Billion.
• I wonder what's more important, eh, Tom?
Party over country, every single goddamned time.
All that morality and righteousness gives them the right to do some awful shit. Who knew?
Vanna @ 52:
Actually, we can't. Many ads have been rejected over the past several years. I disagree with this practice, but it is the case.
Clytemnestra @ 4:
Gah! We're not made out of money, y'know! What do you think we are, GOP nominees?! :-)
Sawweeet!! Keep it coming MoveOn. I got off my ass and contributed because of the first ad. I can't believe Tom Davis is legislator and an American.
Its freedom of speech , pure and simple and it drives the "GOP driftwooders" nuts.
Shan @ 55:
Shan, as most americans now know without a shadow of a doubt, Al Gore won the "popular vote" as well as the electoral vote before Bush's gremlins went into overdrive overnight and "rigged" it all. Now it will be time for Brother Jebbie, Katherine Harris, Tom Feeney, Foggo and Cunningham to "ante up" and face the music. It worked so well in 2000, that the corrupt GOP used it again in Ohio.....knowing that if Jebbie, Heir Apparant, was ever to have a shot at the presidency in his lifetime, then Florida couldn't be involved "again" in the vote rigging. They found a willing co-conspirator in Ken Stillwell, Ohio State Sup. of Elections and Co-Chair of Bush/Cheney 04 to do their dirtywork the second time.
It's all coming out and whistleblowers will take them all down the tubes eventually. Thanks for your concern about the three-ring circus which is destroying this democracy from within though.
Dr. Acula @ 54:
Yep and yep. Patraeus is not running for office, so election laws don't apply, and MoveOn is a non-profit, so why is it "unusual" that they would get a discounted rate?
StirFry @ 61:
Yes, indeedy! It is sweet to see how uncomfortable the Truth makes Repukes feel, isn't it? They are squirming in their shoes right now because they know that if truth prevails, they will probably be spending a good deal of their life behind bars. There's a republican scandal almost daily now and it will continue as long as groups like MoveOn continue to fight this rampant corruption within.
Elderta @ 5:
True. We need to oppose that base, I'm not going to worry about what they think about us, the real Americans. That 25-30% will never change. They'll gladly eat all the poop thrown at them from the sewer.
This also shows how desperate they are, harping over the ad, over and over. The republican party is an empty shell of losers who are marginalizing themselves out of existence.
Blue Buddha @ 63:
Hey look - if Bush's propaganda megaphones in the MSM get free air time, then The People's interests should be equally served by People's groups like MoveOn. Let's face it: Bush's cronies have been controlling the mainstream media for 6 long years - 6 years of nothing but smoke & mirrors, spin and outright lies, omitted and obscured facts, and the dismissal of science. It's no wonder that we're becoming "dummed down" with a president who would rather talk to the voices in his head than to intelligently and articulately discuss "real issues" with the experts.
What he's got going is a good case of bipolar disorder if you ask me.
Its not about whether it has merit. I think its more about harassing anyone who has anything to do with MoveOn. Do anything for MoveOn in any way, even just normal biz, and you will be targeted. Typical Brownshirt stuffs.
Blue Buddha @ 63:
It reminds me of a common practice by the DC Police Department. If a demonstrator is arrested with a prescription drug in his or her pocket the DC Police charge them with "Possesion of a Controled Substance." They drop the charge before arraignment but that is after the Washington Post prints the charges in the newspaper. The demonstrater is dismissed as a drug addict by many people and the message discredited.
The GOP will lose this fight if they take it to court but they get to score some propaganda points and muddy the waters in the meantime.
Dominic P. Lucarelli @ 20:
The NYT has never been a left-leaning paper. It has occasionally been a truth reporting paper. However, it's just like all the old media in this country: somewhere at the top, there's a rich old bastard who's in some crazy fraternity with other rich old bastards. That guy told the other guys about the time he paid his illegitimate black child $20 to give a blowjob to an aborted fetus. Now, when one of his fraternity brothers tells him the truth absolutely must not be printed, or that a lie absolutely must be printed, he'll do it. It doesn't matter much to him in the long run, he'll get kickbacks anyhow.
Vote the change. Mentally prepare yourself to vote for a non-party candidate. Recognize that you have no assurance that your vote will be counted, no matter who you vote for. Recognize that the idea of "throwing your vote away" and "splitting the vote" are false.
I'm calling it right now, Kucinich and Paul are going to make a joint run, as soon as the primary is over. Libertarians seem "crazy" in the modern American context, but so do we (Progressives). We both agree that massive government corruption is the root of our problem (and we can both agree that massive defense spending is one of the lower branches).
What seperates us? Gun control? Healthcare? Taxes? Weapon ownership is protected by a constitutional amendment. I don't think many of my fellow progressives have any intent to repeal it, or even consider it a priority issue. It's just an election year distraction. Healthcare isn't in the constitution, and on that Ron Paul is lamentably correct. Why aren't we trying to pass a Healthcare amendment to the constitution; one that includes protections against corruption and meddling by congress and the president. Libertarians don't hate amendments, they're constitutional (and we all get to vote on them, that's pretty fuckin' sweet). Both sides can agree that we need massive tax reform as well. Both sides are serious about civil rights.
No one political philosophy is suited for all situations. We NEED a discourse between legitimate parties in this country. We need progressive ideas to guide the country into the future and (constitutional/fiscal, not social) conservative ideas to keep us from venturing too far into the wilderness without checking the map. Progressives don't hate entreprenuership and the (real) free market. Libertarians don't hate education and intelligence.
We're both parties of dirty hippies. Wake up and realize that it's the dominant parties that are splitting OUR vote. Are you a progressive? Go hug a Libertarian (hugs belong to the people, comrade). Are you a Libertarian? Go hug a Progressive (hugs are a constitutional and untaxed commodity, don't worry). Perhaps if we learn to embrace the differences between our legitimate philosophies, we can build a government OF the people and FOR the people (and not fuck it up by becoming too insulated in our own little worlds).
Kucinich/Paul or Paul/Kucinich. I'll vote for either.
Personally I think the ad was a dumb move on their part. I hate this war and want to see each and ever Republican thrown out of office but the add was just poor timing and they should have known it would give the GOP something to talk about other than the failed Iraq policies.
Craig @ 70:
Poor timing? When should they have posted the ad? After the election?
the bed wetterists have no problems with Ari buying 15 mill in pro surge ads but we aren't supposed to spend 65k. If we spend 1/300 of what they spend they need to get their bedding dry cleaned
Craig @ 70:
On the contrary it gives Move On some needed publicity and makes the Repubs look like the desperate people that they are---the Politburo locksteppers that don't tolerate one word of dissent and who go apeshit when anyone dares to criticize them.
gatto @ 50:
Have you checked the polls? If anything, the ad helped the anti-war movement.
It was a stupid ad. It was nothing more than the left doing what we so often complain about when the right does it . . . name calling. Yes, it raised some serious issues but it did it in a childish "who has the most toys in the sandbox" way. The point could have been made in an effective way without using the Betray Us phrase and would then have introduced hopefully a heightened level of discourse on the topic instead of a furor over a bunch of nothing. Yeah., we get to shout about free speech and all that and make fun of frothing repubs but all that means is we are spending our time talking about side issues. Just what Bush wants.
MoveOn can be very effective but they at times have ye olde foot in mouth disease.
The next MoveOn ad should be:
"Why do fascists, bigots, greedheads, and the less educated tend to vote Republican?"
I'd chip in some money for it.
Woohoo! MoveOn.org... you're getting to them. Keep it up!!! My donation is on its way!
c. atrox @ 76:
The comments to the article ran approx. 8-1 in favor of the ad. It is tiring though to see how the discussion - AGAIN - has been lowered to a grade school level. The ad did not label the general a "betrayer", but rather asked if his testimony, given the background facts listed in the ad, might not be considered a betrayal. No one in the MSM that I've noticed has discussed the history and facts listed in the ad. Just gone around whining that they've labelled this "hero" a "traitor".
Republicans are so desperate that their targeting of MoveOn only helps MoveOn and makes them look like the foolish childen they've become. Yea, Repubs, keep them in the forefront of everyone's minds - people are actually joining MoveOn because of all this free publicity!!!
What else can they possibly talk about? Fiscal responsibility? Responsible foreign policy? Tax policy? Morality?
Over the last six years, GOP politicians have repeatedly demonstrated that none of those issues really matter to them. It'd be hard to build a campaign around your devotion to scamming the system and stealing money for your cronies.
Their continued focus on that ad is proof of how hollowed out that party has become. They've devolved into a group that really only represents Sean Hannity fans; their only issue is irrational hatred for "libs". That's really all they have left.
The hatred they ran on for so long has finally eaten their party.
Last time I checked, MoveOn.org wasn't running for office and a business could charge whatever they hell they wanted for their services as long as they provided said service.
If I could afford to buy an ad in the NYTimes I'd buy a big one that says "Republicans shut the fuck up and help fix Iraq"
Sigh @ 75:
Do me a favor and study up on game theory. Counter-intuitive though it is, the only way to stop an adversary from using dirty tricks is to use those dirty tricks against him.
Talking about this is just what I want. It brings to people's attention that millions of people realize Petraeus is really just a political puppet (sorry to say, but that is his job) and his statements should be looked at critically, rather than worshipfully. In fact, most of the ad mentions Petraeus' contradictions on a point by point basis - hardly the makings of an ad hominem type attack that some (not necessarily you) seem to imply.
And this wasn't even dirty. It was posed more as a question to Petraeus, as to whether he wants to serve us or go down in history as just another mouth-piece for the Shrub's talking points.
The bush administration is the worst possible steward of democracy in the world today.
Republicans are livid about the audacity of moveon.org too challenge this General for what he is a Bush shill too sell his surge is working policy......, Bill Oreilly last night brought on a guest who is sueing in court that moveon.org is violating soft money elections laws, how ironic using same theory "Fox News" who Sean Hannity admitted on his show and Bill Oreilly do nightly with pro-right wing rhetoric/pro-republican and anti-demcrat/liberal advertisements in their punditry could be sued on same level, wonder when what is good for the goose is good for the gander will apply! The fact they can only come up with a hystery on this moveon.org ad is proof they are melting down in collective fashion...., not surprising for the party whom in 2004 election success cheered they were ushering in 40 years of their dominance in american politcs, funny how in 2006, that all faded, disappeared, and now many of these right wingers are worrying about doing 40 years in prison rather than dominating any politics....
gatto @ 50:
I think I sense a viewer of FAUX "News". MoveOn's recruitment is up, the general public isn't buying into the sense of scandal that the repugs are are peddling and the republicans are just making themselves look ridiculous. I hope MoveOn publishes many more "stupid" ads like that in the future.
I would laugh at Republicans if they weren't so frightening. The Republican party, for whatever it once was, is now dominated by fascists. That's not an exaggeration. It's a plain fact.
Sigh @ 75:
It's doing wonders for the blogging industry though. Evidently it's only embarrassing for Republicans to keep talking about it.
Didn't the times sell Rudy his attack ad at the same rate as moveon?
*****
This from the party that brought you Willie Horton, and the Swiftboaters...(sounds like a doo wap group...Willie Horton and the Swiftboaters...
Shan @ 55:
Thank you.
I hope most of the posters here on this C&L Thread do click on the blue highlighted,
underscored "have no merit" above in the lead-in article,for it not only contains
"facts" as to the MoveOn ad, but many, many good comments..
SonOfLiberty @ 69:
Yes, absolutely correct. I expect conservative pundits to bash their competition, but I'm still flabbergasted when I meet people in person who bemoan the "liberal msm media." What sandbox is their head buried in?
I used to consider the "liberal msm media" completely untrustworthy, until Fox News and their ilk made them looking trustworthy in comparison.
Some perspective for those whose knickers are in a twist over this ad: Kerry was swiftboated and then publicly mocked with purple bandages at the Repub Convention, a concerted effort by bona fide representatives of the GOP to denigrate a veteran who acted honorably in Vietnam and upon his return home. MoveOn has a long, long way to go before they ever reach the despicable depths that the GOP has displayed.
In addition, Patreus has earned this contempt. The record is clear that his words are false, the books were cooked, Enron style. Once again, bush has found a scapegoat for his own sins.
Why does Petreus need these people to fight him? Isn't he a man? Can't he fight his battles? Same thing goes for Bush.
1)MoveOn is a great website; Most of these jokers must not have even READ it...or they can't comprehend logical, rational fact finding.
2)I just donated some to MoveOn also...wasn't much, but it's something.
Republicuns are beginning to look as desperate now (hopefully on their way out of power) as they were when they were going after Bill's blow job, looking for the power. Maybe the sign says they have gone full circle and are their way into the trash bin of history.
At least there, they can be sure that they won't be remembered, and safe in the knowledge that nothing will have been learned from what they've done, and so they will rise again somewhere in the future.
At Comment 28 Georgette Orwell said: "Will someone please find an advertising agency media director and have that person explain the facts of media pricing life to these idiots?"
Ms. Orwell must have been too down & out to have clicked through to the link to NYT in the main post - - because that appears to be PRECISELY what Ms. Katharine Q. Seelye sought to achieve in her piece.
And in that regard she has composed the house journalist's equivalent of Mozart's A Musical Joke - a minor masterpiece which slyly teases whimsey from an interview of someone whom any journalism professor would grant as among the most unexpected sources of that precious commodity: the director of her employer's advertising department - concerning a subject which even the dweebiest of newspaper geeks would readily concede as likely so mundane as to provide a permanent cure for chronic insomnia - departmental policy & the pricing schedule - - with one of the most sublime put downs of wingnuttery ever set to print: combining the seemingly discordant message "Listen up you wingnut dumb asses" with a gleaming reference to Truman Capote's tribute to Park Avenue haute couture - producing what must surely rank as among of the greatest of close-out paragraphs in the history of side-bar journalism
- which I hereby reproduce in somewhat edited form - with complementary translation for those unused to being complimented as "most readers" of NYT:
"Advertisers generally consider the front or the back of a Section as the most valuable spot in papers like NYT ..."
What? Is an obscure house reporter & employee by the Times actually granting the existence of other such "papers"?
"... which does not run ads on its front page."
Ha! You've been HAD! You should have seen this distinction coming. Yes, of course, we remain The Times - - the One & Only.
"The next most valuable spot is Section A Page 3 ..."
Now I recognize that by now even some of our regular readers may be sensing we are risking being accused of putting narrowly spiked extra high heels on the necks of the membership of the Wingnut Critic Circle with a touch too much robust enthusiasm at this point ... but having actually spent some of my time & effort studying their peculiar customs as portrayed on the pages of the Weekly Standard & on any given program on Fox News I have concluded it as very likely that many of them suffer from debilitating limitations to their frontal lobes. Moreover as a matter of full & fair disclosure I point out that the senior editorial staff & publisher have made it clear that it would not pose any detriment to my advancement at the Times were I to include some gratuitous dismissive - - one put it to me graphically as: "a short hard one right in the nackers" - & so I am moved to dedicate the balance of this piece to that spirit.
"...which is the first inside page that most readers see."
I realize such pedantry risks leaving a scar - - but this harsh fact of life in the Apple seems self-evident: for the most part the membership of the Critics Auxillary to the Grand Old Poops of Wingnuttery do not qualify as among the "readers" of NYT - - or indeed of any other non-fiction literary work. In any event you should appreciate that I intended this shot to the starboard side to operate as either a warning to those of them not suffering too severely from attention deficit disorder - - & a primitive form of anaesthetic for the rest - - in advance of the following crescendo.
"In the NYT that spot has long been occupied by Tiffany."
Rrrrrr-RIM-shot! Oh lordy me - - not only does that connect with the netherest regions of the Bushie base - - & brighten this day for all of us among the category of "most readers" - - but it plants a precise notion of how the author's editors & publisher may wish to express their appreciation for the piece.
By way of denouement I suggest it may be appropriate to stand in awe of an news organ so nuanced it can nurture the ambitions of both a certifiable confabulator like that grasping drama queen Judith Miller - - & of a satirist so promising as Ms. Seelye. I propose timely repossession of the Pulitzer which the former conned & refurbishment for subsequent presentation to the latter.
The Repugs are scared because they know how effective that sort of advertising is!All that quacking is just giving MoveOn free publicity.
BetrayUS is an anti-American PUKE who knows about one thing... Coordination of corporate/political goals that involve MASS MURDER using our sons and daughters as pawns. FUCK HIM!
LabDancer @ 97:
Loved your comments...especially, and I quote.."..but after actually having spent some of
my time &studying their peculiar customs as protrayed on the pages of the Weekly
Standard and on any given program on Fox News, I have concluded it is very likely that
many of them suffer from dibilitating limitations to the frontal lobes."....Well said.
Weaseldog Says: dirty d @ 9:
ok , ive said this before. even though the general is a political appointment, move on should stop giving gifts to the repubs! There are more effective ways of showing just how biased the whitehouse/generals report is! Now these bastards have fuel for the same old bullshit!
If you roll over and give up, they won’t respect you, but they’ll go back to feeding on each other. The blue dogs are completing the rubber stamp congress, and they get no respect either, for toeing the line on Republican Party agenda. But at least the Republicans don’t call them names.
So they’ve got no one to go after except the Democratic base.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, I'm not saying anything about rolling over and giving up. I'm just talking about sending an aggressive message with some more political savy. The democratic base (of which I would be considered a member) doesn't have to say stupid shit to get thier point across and tear into these fascist pigs. Crafting an effective message means that you can hit em hard without throwing red meat to the fascist base. This may not always be possible, but in this instance it definitely was!
Of course Cheney said not a word when the swift boat liars called decorated former soldier John Kerry a "war criminal" in a full ad campaign. Those would be the swift boat liars who were funded by Bush/Repuke moneymen. Ah fake outrage. It so becomes them...
Larry Craig, Tom Delay, David Vitter, Duke Cunningham, Bill Frist, Lewis Libby, Karl Rove, Katherine Harris, Julie Myers, Michael Brown...(inhale)... Lester Crawford, Lee Raymond, Jack Abramoff, Bernard Kerik, Bill Taft, David Safavian, Thomas Noe, etc..... but, but MoveOn ran an ad! Waaaaaah! Mommy, mommy!
Why do Republicons hate free speech and America?
I agree a public investigation sounds like a great idea. I'd like to see them hold up a few screen captures from FOX news such as "National Healthcare: Breeding Ground for Terror?" or "Democrats are Legislating Defeat in Iraq". Let them open this can of worms.
Who's running for office in this situation? The General? Moveon.org?
goatsage @ 103:
As an "add on", we can include Robert Lichfield in Utah. Political campaign chairperson
and contributor to Mitt Romney's campaign...and due to his involvement in alleged child
abused cases in his(Lichfield's) WAAS child facilities, he was dismissed/let go by Romney
in order to avoid embarrassment.
I don't have an opinion on Petreaus one way or another, but this "outrage" over the ad seems to be a dodge to prevent any discussions of why intelligence reports of NIE's, GAO, and at least 14 of our intelligence operations contradict the general's report down the line.
If it's listening to the man on the ground why did they give Gen. Shinseki the bum's rush, and put a lot of limitations on emails home from soldiers on the ground?
I have a problem with this sentence
Again, the left allows the right to frame the message. And he who frames it, wins it. The left needs to speak as one and stand behind the ad. Does anybody really disagree that Patreus is taking his orders and selling the White House spin?
Craig @ 70:
We should sit quietly and be ignored. It hurts when bullies call us names.
Try to be inconspicuous, or the bullies will come this way. Then we'll be sorry we made a scene.
Dirty @ 101:
I see your point. But the media is masterful at ignoring effectively crafted messages.
McCain and Giuliani have inspired me to write a check to MoveOn. Thank you.
What are they all going ballistic about? It. was. an. ad. Big deal.
I didn't any hear any Democrat politician saying they approved of the ad, or endorsed it any more than they approved of or endorsed an ad for Sears or K-mart.
The (R) woman from the House hearing last week saying for Dems to disavow themselves from the ad, then a (D) said that one can't disavow themselves from something they never were in connection with (or something to that effect), then the (R) woman got bent out of shape with her "Chill out" response.... what was her point of being 'outraged' but yet a (D)'s response to her is basically 'hysterics'? I don't understand how (R)s brains function.
Get a grip... it was an ad fer petes sake.
The problem I see is that MoveOn stopped after one ad. what they should have done is keep the heat on the neo-cons with more ads in more places. If you put out so much stuff that the Republicans and their supporters don't know which one to target, it makes it much more effective as a whole. WE NEED MORE ADS. Come on MoveOn.org get with the program please.
Blue Buddha @ 11:
So, from now on, I want the GOP to be charged the same amount, for every ad they place in every news outlet, that any Democratic/Green/Independent ad gets charged. Sure, that'll happen. They are so used to getting everything handed to them!
America has endured 7 long years of these criminals, so I say 'Bring 'Em On!!!' Two can play this game, and IOKIYAR has finally come around to include Democrats. Hip Hip Hooray for MoveON! Keep up this important work...our very lives may depend on it.
It only takes the Truth from the left to shove the bedwetting, kool-aid drinking, Reslug wing-nutO's to go absolutely insane.
The Republicans are going batshit nuts over the ad because it effectively strikes at a cornerstone of the Big Lie they've been snowing the public under for years. They're batshit frightened: Point out the lies of the Petraeus Show, and you've come dangerously close to pulling away the entire curtain that has obscured the truth of Iraq.
Moveon has attacked the leading edge of the Big Lie -- they've tugged on a corner of that curtain -- and for that they must be excoriated, demonized, criminalized and punished, lest anyone else gets similar ideas. Lest anyone tries to look under that curtain.
This GOP reaction fits in perfectly with how they they work: "Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."
By the way, that quote above was from a WW2-era OSS report by Walter C. Langer, "A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler", that described the techniques Hitler used to master the art of propaganda.
I'm not at all saying the GOP is Hitler. But the GOP has certainly come to refine its own methods of manipulating the public that now bear eerie resemblance to those used by a failed painter from Austria. And I cannot read this part of the analysis http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/oss-pro... and not see a strong resemblance to the GOP as an entity, and indeed, a certain amount of similarity with a certain failed oilman from Crawford.
Godwin's Law be damned. If a analogy is supportable by observation and facts, the Law no longer applies.
There's a diary posted over at Kos that pretty well establishes that "Betrayus" is a nickname that soldiers serving under Petrayus have used for him throughout his career. He's memorably called a "politician in a soldier's uniform" by one military member. So much for this being an insult cooked up by MoveOn -- the name was bestowed by the soldiers on the ground (on in the air, as the case may be). This critical distinction needs to be made far and wide.
sounds like now they want some kind of fairness doctrine. i thought they were against it? oh well, as long as it only applies to democrats i presume.
Great Headline -
They're all howling and wailing their frustration at the success of the MoveOn organization as a whole - And are any of us surprised that they are all swinging their mightiest axes* at it? (*main stream media)
ANY group or venue that allows an opportunity for the left to organize and possibly defeat them is perceived as a serious threat. They thought they had removed all our resources when they took over the MSM. So of course they're trying to damage MoveOn.
But their mightiest is pretty wimpy these days. Hard to hold the moral high ground when the whole nation know that thieves, liars, war criminals and perverts pervade and comprise the elected body of the Repiglican party
*
Let's give moveon.org $ every time Rudy opens his mouth!
If moveon.org gets a donation every time Rudy opens his mouth.. he and the rest of the immoral, bullies in the Republican party, those who put our children in Iraq.. those who know we lost the war but continue to support Bush as a political calculation, let's make move on rich.
https://pol.moveon.org/...
Weaseldog Says
I see your point. But the media is masterful at ignoring effectively crafted messages.
True dat Weaseldog, but if it is truly effectively crafted, then it can garner publicity at the same time that it minimizes the opportunity for the fascist Repubs to score cheap political points. For example, maybe the full page ad in the times should have highlighted the incongruence between the whitehouse/Patraeus reports and the GAO and call attention to the specific ways that they cooked the books (ie: leaving out car bombs as evidence of sectarian violence, leaving out victims shot in the front of the head as evidence of sectarian violence) This stuff may have been able to garner some attention, but you may be right that it is almost impossible to fight noise with facts in today's noise machine media!!!
I read that Rudy's ad against MoveOn and Hillary was given to him at the same rate as MoveOn. Check it out.
english teacher @ 121:
No - that is NOT what they want. Fairness is not a part of their game plan.
We're to have nothing to fight back with.
They are just a bunch of babies who don't like it when - for a change - they're the one that gets knocked down on the playground.
*
if this was funny, it would be hilarious.
I just made my first ever political contribution: $250 to MoveOn.
Oh Tommie, stick to what you know. Why don't you go investigate what Sandy Berger did. Again. And find out what we (including you) already know.
we should put of the gop in a boat with a hole in it and send them all out to sea.
They have indeed "lost it". Desperation rears it's ugly head. Many of them may wind up in jail if a Democrat is in the White House with a majority in the house and 60 votes in the Senate. Those that stay out of jail may be exposed as lying, money/power hungry, hypocrites. Since it takes a lot of lies to stay in office as a Republican, they be looking at minority status for anther 40 years. The lies have become so transparent that you don't have to be an insider to see it.
I only have 2 words about this Mission Accomplished
I honestly don't know how you (non wing-nut Americans) stand it. I'm not even American, don't live there, and can go on about my business without any of this directly impacting me, and it still drives me insane. I fear for the future of the planet, that's why I come here. We Canadians are always very concerned what our rich, giant neighbour, with enough fire-power to melt the earth, does. The USA bullies us a lot. It's not comforting living next to a lawless bunch of renegades.
truthandgoodness @ 127:
That sums up 80% of the GOP shenanigans, doesn't it? Touche.
PS: See the Larry Craig thing is funny, and even hilarious. I hope he runs for president!!
Sigh @ 76:
Thanks for your concern. We Liberals happen to think the ad was extremely effective. If it hadn't been, conservative eyes would not be bugging out of conservative heads right now, and conservative veins would not be popping out of conservative foreheads, and conservative voices would not be getting hoarse and shrill from shrieking about how biased this ad was.
Sigh @ 76:
Yeah, whatever. Thanks for the proof that the Repubs can't counter the ad. No talking points yet?
The add was incredibly effective. The polls show that by getting out in front and warning the public about Patreaus, that most Americans today feel he did not tell the truth to Congress about Iraq but said what Bush wanted. Now Move on is gonna send Rudy to the wood chipper for all his BS. The more the wingnuts attack moveon, the more their message gets out. It is win win win for liberals and lose lose lose for republicans loser hacks.
Dear Edwin, the Canadian,
The bullying you get is only a small fraction of the homegrown GOP bullying. This mis-administration has built concentration camps with OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to punish us. The (gag) Decider is already counting the days until he declares Martial Law. He likes torturing us, leaving us wondering when. When he's done with that we'll be just like those frogs(no slur intended) he grew up blowing up. He is a pshycopath/sociopath. He can N0T 'learn' from his mistakes. Edwin, your big, fat, rich, southern neighbor is much more scary than ever before. It is Nazi Germany. RIP any, all memories of a brighter time. It's not going to get ANY better 'til this OIL/MILITARY/INDUSTRIAL/DRUG/SLAVER/PEDOPHILE MAFIA get trounced again, just like Nazi Germany.
It kills me, all these talking heads expressing shock and outrage. Demanding that Dems distance themselves from MoveOn. I must have missed it when they demanded the Repugs denounce Ann Coulter for her comments about the 9/11 widows.
The question people should be asking is WHY should we take Petraeus at face value? Since when is being a military man make a person beyond reproach?
Remember Colin Powell at the UN. He stated beyond a shadow of a doubt, Iraq had mobile chemical weapons plants. Our lukewarm media did not press the issue. We took Powell at face value. We ended up in Iraq. Part of the rationale were those non-existent chemical vans, Powell assured us did exist.
Now we are being asked to once again give unwavering trust to another general. The decisions Petraeus makes have long reaching consequences and his decisions are directly responsible for the lives or deaths of our soldiers on a daily basis. This man should be put under very high scrutiny. Due to the seriousness of the issues, he should have testified under oath.
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