The Lieberman/Kyl Amendment has passed by an unbelievable 76-22 vote. Roll Call here

Biden's Iraq Partitioning Amendment passed by a vote of 75-23. I'll put up Roll Calls as they become available.

And the House of Representatives, evidently eager to show that they are as spineless and easily cowered as the Senate, voted to condemn MoveOn for the Gen. Betrayus ad, 341-79. Roll Call here.

MoveOn's response to the House vote here.

UPDATE: Kudos to a Democrat who gets it.  Tom Allen

"I respect General Petraeus and honor all of our troops. They have done a phenomenal job and done everything that we have asked of them. General Petraeus is a soldier who simply takes orders from the Commander-in-Chief, President Bush.

Unfortunately the President and his Republican allies in Congress have continued to order General Petraeus and the rest of our troops to continue fighting. What we need is a plan to bring our troops home.

I voted against this resolution today because I believe it is the job of the Congress to bring our troops home, not legislate free speech."



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464 comments

Liberalism is dead. All hail the new prevailing ideology - Dumbass.

idiots

Oh no..............

Lieberman/Kyl Amendment= what we get when Pelosi keeps Impeachment off the table.

Thank God. I would hate to waste time debating the additional $180 BILLION that Chimpy wants...and will get...for his worthless war.

Much better to keep rehashing this kind of bullshit.

They are voting to condemn moveon? WTF? Can they even do that?

BLOODY HELL !

HAVE WE LOST TOTAL CONTROL OF OUR GOVERNMENT?!!!

What does this mean in terms of a possible War on Iran?

341 to 79?

I cannot fathom how Delahunt voted "yea"???? grrrr.

He'll be hearing from a constituent.

What.....the......FUCK???

cristalyn @ 6:

They are voting to condemn moveon? WTF? Can they even do that?

They can certily vote to put their fingers in their ears and chant "I can't hear you, la la la la la la la" before excoriating us to "stop slapping ourselves"

For crying out loud!

Why do we even bother to have elections?

What good is the Democratic Party if they consistently ignore their constituents (and morality)?

What do the 70% of Americans who are repulsed by this administration, and bills like this one, supposed to do?

Who represents us?

No one! We have no representation. Perhaps we should have no taxation. Perhaps we should listen to Thomas Jefferson:

“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

And the media is no help either: News Corpse

I can't believe these idiots wasted time on this crap when there are so many other more important issues to address. All these morons need to go!

Then MoveOn needs to do a new ad that says:

"Any money that you were going to donate to the Democrats for re-election, Send it to US!"

Since they want to waste their time condemning MoveOn as opposed to dealing with real issues...like Gates coming to them and begging for more money to fund bombing Iran.

I read earlier that the Lieberman/Kyl amendment was going to be tabled. WTF happened?

What World War 3 may look like

http://tinyurl.com/yv4f3b

it's high fucking time we broke out the torches and pitchforks!!!

I would like to officially announce my candidacy for any open office since I am far better than anyone currently in government anywhere. For example, I can walk and breathe at the same time.

Thank you for your support.

They can't find the urge to wag their finger at a fascist Executive Branch, but they have no problem doing it to a bunch of uppity citizens.

These politicians have become far too arrogant. They seem to think they're our bosses rather than our servants.

I left this at firedoglake already, but may we refer to them as the "Koolaid Kongress" henceforth? Apologies to anyone who preempted me, but perhaps a steady barrage of contempt and derision may attract their notice.

Forget it. Freedom of expression is dead in this country

Support Democrats = Support the Bush Regime. Cleanse Ye Selves. Register Indy and stop being taken for granted.

I VOTE TO CONDEMN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

Can I get a holla?

With Lieberman-Kyl, Bush will have all the authority he needs to attack Iran. This is a big setback for everyon who wants the US out of the Middle East. The Democrats are useless.

WTF?

I thought we had a Democratic majority in Congress. I can see that we can have trouble breaking a filibuster, but where was the leadership on this one? This is a moment of clarity for me. I knew that the Democratic majority was having trouble at being effective, but this shows that they are not even trying to resist Republican rule.

is it too much to ask to go down fighting?

yes it is.

Is this the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment to go to war with Iraq?

And let me ask you ... you thought the democrats would win easily in 2008 ... why is that again? Do you or I have any reason to believe the republicans arent still running the government? Do you understand just how irrelevant Pelosi and Reid are?

And what is being done regarding the 2008 elections - ITS ALL BEING DONE BY REPUBLICANS.

Republicans will do much better in 2008 than expected - they will say its the disaffection with congress.

If they can get a democratic congress (yes that means Reid and the control he is supposed to have) to authorize war with Iran and condemn a grass roots organization of voters - that really is what moveon is you know - then they can and will steal the next election.

This country stinks.

miss_kitty @ 22:

I VOTE TO CONDEMN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

Can I get a holla?

I 2nd that vote.

Fine. Condemn away, you spineless shitbags.

These idiots are going to get US ALL F**KING KILLED.

leslie @ 26:

Is this the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment to go to war with Iraq?

Is this the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment to go to war with Iraq?

Iran, not Iraq

...due to unfortunate timing, I should point out that my #29 post is in reference to the topic, no to miss_kitty @ 22's suggestion.

Ok...can we can now have amendments condemning the Swift Boat Ad, the max Cleland smears, Ted Nugents gun tirade, mann Coulters rap sheet of slurs and her NY Times comment, anything that Weiner guy says, the 2000 smears against the Straight talk Express, beck, Billo, Michelle M, Rush's mocking of MJ Fox and Parkinsons and hundreds of other whacked out comments.....and on and on....

The Dems are a bunch of submissive collies....

great job democrats. You've proved time and again why it is that we have come to see you as WORTHLESS, SPINELESS, P*LITICIANS!!

The LieberKyl amendment passed without any real investigation into its underlying assumptions. It is evident that most of our politicians are simply lazy careerists who are hostage to Beltway conventions.

Here's something for fans of Clinton and Obama. She voted for it, and he didn't bother showing up. Feel the HillaryMentum!!!

Wisconsin Rep. David Obey, a veteran Democrat, recounted how he left the Republican Party during the era of Sen. Joseph McCarthy, R-Wis., and said that lawmakers have an obligation to criticize their allies as well as their enemies when they go too far.

'I have got an obligation to be equally upset when that kind of juvenile debate emanates from the left,' Obey said.

Where was the criticism from these POS for the last 7 years of smears, lies and accusations of working with our enemies. These cowards just sat with their thumbs up their worthless asses while people like Kerry, Cleland and countless others were smeared and ridiculed. I guess those handfull of anthrax letters in 2001 from Dick and KKKarl really did the trick. It's the gift that keeps on giving to the new hitlers.

WakeupCall @ 356:

There is nothing stopping the American public from creating a new system of governance which will defend this Constitution.

That's hilarious. Have you ever tried to remove a Senator?

When you talk about replacing Senators, you do understand that only 1/3 will stand in 2008?

Senator Feinstein, who voted yea on both this and the Iraq Resolution, and all the way down the line with Bushco, just won her last election (2006) by a margin of 22%:

Dianne Feinstein (D) (inc.) 59.2%
Dick Mountjoy (R) 37.4%
Don Grundmann (American Independent) 1.8%
Todd Chretien (Green) 1.7%
Michael Metti (Lib.) 1.6%
Marsha Feinland (Peace and Freedom) 1.3%

She doesn't stand again until 2012, when she will be nearly eighty years old, so she may retire.

But if you were planning on replacing the Senate with one more your liking, then you would run headlong into these facts.

I am a little appalled that some of the other important blogs did not consider the Kyl amendment worth reporting. Are they adopting a stick your head in the sand policy over what the Democrats are doing and hoping it will all go away by election time?

Did Crooks and Liars, miss the segment, I believe it was on MSNBC that Congresswoman, for the lack of a better word, Marsha Blackburn Republican of Tenn, who was spewing her normal vermin about the MoveOn add and lying like most republicans due on national TV, and about American people being mad at MoveON, was inadvertently asked what the name of the last troop killed from her state's name was.

It was really funny she could not recall the name of another young troop that was killed in her state because of this illegal invasion she and the rest of these thugs continue to support. She claims she has regular contact with family members, just not enough to remember the names of the fallen troops. This was a moment in time that we need to take full advantage of.

This silly B, was actually outraged that she was even asked that question at such a trivial time when she was trying real hard to dog MoveOn for telling it like it is.

I hope they have a replay of that segment to replay over and over of just what republicans are all about and send a copy of it to all the democrats so that they can see exactly what they were again tricked into.

Site Monitor: We did the segment...do a site search for Marsha Blackburn

Paul in LA @ 334:

hareli @ 332:

JasonS @ 328:

> I do love what we say we stand for.

You mean: what we stood for. Because what it was isn't there now.

I just love the defeatism in your tone. Can you whine any louder?

Let me get this straight -- the Congress passes a meaningless resolution, and so now the country is finished?

Apparently you haven't watched Congress for very long. Ho hum.

Move-On just split their bet and doubled their earnings for 2007. Not bad for a $150,000 ad.

As for the Congress, wow, sense of resolutions will NEVER be important in this lifetime or the next.

Yeah, I'd ordinarily say you're 1000% correct, Paul, because things iron themselves out no matter how dire the moment appears to be. But if we bomb Iran, all bets are off, this world will change beyond all comprehension. I can't get a sense of the possibility of out doing it; by "our" I mean the USA. I usually err on the conservative side of predictions. But my prediction is weighted on bombing. Hope I'm wrong.

How does that relate to my comment "what we stood for?"

Simply that the idea of bombing Iran can't happen, couldn't happen, without the dismantling of the Constitution by admin forces, the abdication of journalistic investigation and call for balance, the wholesale slavery to Israel's paranoid foreign policy talking points, and a bunch of 'hiddens' I don't know about yet.

From TPM, seems that this was another R procedural victory:

"Late Update: A House aide writes in to say that the Dem leadership did not in fact allow this vote. Rather, it was forced by a GOP procedural maneuver:

"Democrats had given no signal of allowing a vote, but using a `motion to recommit' procedural motion, which they are automatically allowed on every bill and which does not need to be announced beforehand, Republicans forced a vote to attach the language to the continuing resolution that funds the government as a stop gap while the Senate passes the final appopriations bills."

You libs need to realize Moveon.org is no different that the ACLU- it is a communist group that is seeking to topple freedoim in this country. I applaud Lieberman's heroism in standing up to such ideological terrorists.

hareli @ 364: "Yeah, I'd ordinarily say you're 1000% correct, Paul, because things iron themselves out no matter how dire the moment appears to be. But if we bomb Iran, all bets are off, this world will change beyond all comprehension."

That's true. Haven't you heard Cheney and Bush on this topic?

"How does that relate to my comment "what we stood for?"

Well, what we stand for is slowly being repaired after a coup.

"Simply that the idea of bombing Iran can't happen, couldn't happen, without the dismantling of the Constitution by admin forces,"

Indeed, but that already happened seven years ago when the coup was installed.

"the abdication of journalistic investigation and call for balance, the wholesale slavery to Israel's paranoid foreign policy talking points, and a bunch of 'hiddens' I don't know about yet."

I think rather than just look to Israel, you may as well look at SAUDI ARABIA, which is Bushco's main ally.

There's still the possibility that they can be stopped before they carry on their heinous strategies. I protest in the streets again today, as I did yesterday-- it's not because I need a tan. But there isn't any point to the high rhetoric -- this is a coup, and the Dems are trying to restore order, but we don't really have enough votes to do so.

While the Speaker was focused on S-CHIP, which is certainly important, the R took over the agenda in the House. In the Senate, hell, same old story. But just bashing every Dem is not useful. We have about 25 good votes in the Senate -- they have been loyal throughout, but that's not enough to change what's going on.

Freedom of speech does not protect treasonous speech.

A Patriot @ 366:

You libs need to realize Moveon.org is no different that the ACLU- it is a communist group that is seeking to topple freedoim in this country. I applaud Lieberman's heroism in standing up to such ideological terrorists.

You're coddling mass-murderers. That's not honorable.

If you applaud Lieberman, then you are a bootlicker and a coward.

A Patriot @ 368:

Freedom of speech does not protect treasonous speech.

Treason this, you liar.

Beltway politicians are stuck together like dogs in heat.

It doesn't matter who or what they claim to represent, the politicians condemning MoveOn for speaking out against the lies of General Betrayus and this Administration betrayed the Bill of Rights, our Constitution, free speech, Democracy, America and people yearning for freedom everywhere.

A Patriot @ 368:

Freedom of speech does not protect treasonous speech.

Exactly who is the arbiter of what is treasonous speech? You?

Look, we are at war, and now is not the time to question the war or the president- we should stand by the troops and the president. Once we win, THEN complain to your hearts delight- but till then, blasting the war is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Our soldiers brought freedom to Iraq- we deposed Saddam, we brought in democracy- remember the purple fingers? Our soldiers are doing good things, and I stand by them..

Did you hear that?

The sound of my 25 years of supporting democrats disappear?

Thanks for nothing, Casey (D-PA), I busted my ass trying to help you and others get into Washington so that you could stab everyone who voted for you in the back?

Fuck you.

nonbeliever @ 372:

A Patriot @ 368:

Freedom of speech does not protect treasonous speech.

Exactly who is the arbiter of what is treasonous speech? You?

I am a patriot sir, i stand by my country, my president and the troops.

I understand Dems are furious that they had their butts handed to them in the last 2 presidential elections- but for gods sake, put the partisan squabbling aside and stand behind the president and the troops...We are are war against Islamofascism- and if we pull out of Iraq now- they will follow us here- and they will not distinguish between liberal or conservative Americans- they'll try to kill all of us...I really wish the venom from the left could end...Im a proud right wing Republican, but i come to liberal sites like this to reach out in hopes I can find some people who value the lives of Americans above their political party...

It basically offers the opinion that the US should defend the troops against Iranian hostilities. It is an opinion - the sense of the senate - which they will use as authorization.

Before the vote paragraphs 3 & 4 which give the authorization you mention were removed. I don't know how to do a link, but if you go to think progress, it's the first story

Paul in LA @ 369:

A Patriot @ 366:

You libs need to realize Moveon.org is no different that the ACLU- it is a communist group that is seeking to topple freedoim in this country. I applaud Lieberman's heroism in standing up to such ideological terrorists.

"

Face it, "Patriot". You are a "Fire - Ready - Aim" bully who doesn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion. Get the facts, man! It takes guts AND brains to live in and protect a Democracy. Betrayus lied in his report to make Bush look good. Here are the facts:

Petraeus’s numbers differ substantially from the Pentagon’s own numbers – his show progress, and theirs don’t. The Pentagon’s numbers are the official MNF-I numbers, which Petraeus himself called the most reliable possible. Petraeus’ numbers differ, the military says, because he includes reports from Iraqi police – the same police the NIE said are corrupt, riddled with sectarianism, and ought to be disbanded. The actual Iraqi government numbers are nowhere near as positive.” Washington Post, Tuesday, September 25, 2007"

Full article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/24/AR200709...

Summary of facts here: http://pol.moveon.org/releases/070926housevoteresponse.html

A Patriot @ 377:

I understand Dems are furious that they had their butts handed to them in the last 2 presidential elections

Bush and the RNC stole both elections.

There are 1.5 million dead civilians in Iraq. Iraq did not attack us. Iran also did not attack us. The US CENTCOM has admitted to using white phosphorus as an antipersonnel weapon, which is a warcrime. The US destroyed the Iraqi water and power infrastructure, which is a warcrime. The US tortured and killed, and took children hostages -- all of which is major warcrime. The US CENTCOM offered no quarter in Al-Fallujah, a major warcrime. The US allowed major looting and destruction of cultural property in Iraq -- a major warcrime. The US deployed mercenaries with no legal restrictions in an occupation, a major warcrime.

The US FAILED TO GUARD ANY OF THE CAPTURED ENEMY AMMUNITION IN THE COUNTRY. Our troops have been dying from IEDs directly fueled by high explosives that Bushco couldn't bother to secure on invasion, as Al Gore warned.

Looting became rampant because ammunition sites were inadequately guarded. David Kay, the former chief US weapons inspector said that looting was so bad during the fall of 2003 that Iraqis were going in at night individually and in trucks. “There were just not enough boots on the ground, and the military didn’t give it a high enough priority to stop the looting. Tens of thousands of tons of ammunition were being looted, and that is what is fueling the insurgency.”7 The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) confirmed Kay’s account and in a 9 November 2003 DIA report, noted the vast majority of explosives and ordnance used in anti- coalition improvised explosive devices have come from pilfered Iraqi ammunition stockpiles and prewar established caches.” 8

Colonel Mark D. Klingelhoefer Report, for US Army War College

So you are in fact a liar and a coward and a supporter of war criminals who failed to protect our troops, or to protect the lives of civilians during an illegal invasion and occupation.

Paul in LA @ 367:

hareli @ 364: "How does that relate to my comment "what we stood for?"

Well, what we stand for is slowly being repaired after a coup.

Not enough of a coup. Joe Six-Packs haven't recognized the need yet, married as they are to FoxNews. Day that happens, it will be a floodgate breaking.

"Simply that the idea of bombing Iran can't happen, couldn't happen, without the dismantling of the Constitution by admin forces,"

Indeed, but that already happened seven years ago when the coup was installed.

We had MANY MANY more freedoms seven years ago. And we allowed this dismantling over the past seven years, as you say. We did. Through ignorance, disinterest, fear, not caring, abdication, bunch of reasons.

"the abdication of journalistic investigation and call for balance, the wholesale slavery to Israel's paranoid foreign policy talking points, and a bunch of 'hiddens' I don't know about yet."

I think rather than just look to Israel, you may as well look at SAUDI ARABIA, which is Bushco's main ally.

Show me one -- just one, I'll shut up forever -- instance of where Saudi Arabia has called for pre-emptive war against Iran because of nuclear weapons or for any other reason. The only country calling for war with Iran is Israel. If saner minds in Israel dont stop this nonsense, they will be annihilated. American Israel-Firsters are the ones leading the charge here. I can't get past this or this.

I have a deeply personal vested interest in not seeing Israel go up in heat and light. And it will if these American AIPAC and neocon nutjobs get their way.

A Patriot @ 367:

You libs need to realize Moveon.org is no different that the ACLU- it is a communist group that is seeking to topple freedoim in this country.

lol what a tosser!

Paul, wrote you a long reply, hit Submit and it disappeared.

Site Monitor: It got caught in our moderation filter. I cleaned it out.

From South America, I wish you a happy war with Iran! (bad joke, I know).

Seriously, this gives all the excuses mr G.W.B. needs to start a war with Iran. This ammendment, establishes that your senate believes the Iranian army is a terrorist organization and that the government has to fight this guys (well, that's what I think this is).
So if mr. Bush wants to attack Iran there's nothing to stop him. But I can only hope that the international community does something this time, and I say this time, because the last time (with Iraq) the UN believed all the WMD cr*p.

What a great country is the USA, i can't believe it's going down the cr*p*er like that.
I believe that someday your country will wake up and protest against this people (thousands on the streets, something like that)... you know, it happened all around the world (in my country we kicked out some presidents that were shitting on us), why not in what we knew as the best example of a free democracy.

I could go on and go on, but i won't.

Pd. I hope this doesn't end as bad as it can.

Where is the Revolution?

Thanks for nothing Clinton.
Thanks for less than nothing Obama.
Go to hell.

once again, there is a reason that this town has a representative it can be proud of. in every vote reguarding this war, john yarmuth has voted the way his constituents want. it also doesn't hurt that he and his constituents are on the same page a majority of the time.

This doesn't make any sense. Have they completely cut themselves off from the outside world? It's like a practical joke or something. How much more clear can we be than the last election? And WTF didn't Obama vote? I really can't stand the idea of either him or Clinton being president. They are just full of shit like all national politicians.

John @ 295:

I have voted democrat too many times, and I swear I am voting for Ron Paul now!
I thought Levin in Michigan was one of my favorite dems. How could he vote for this?....
I expect as much from Stabenow as she also voted for the military commissions act.
I am at a complete loss.

John in Michigan

Why not try Kucinich!

That takes care of that, screw what it does to the Supreme Court, I'm voting Green in 2008.

I agree with what someone upthread said...

"Bring on the Draft!"

The sooner, the better.

The window for Revolution closes a little more every day.

A Patriot @ 374:

Look, we are at war, and now is not the time to question the war or the president- we should stand by the troops and the president. Once we win, THEN complain to your hearts delight- but till then, blasting the war is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Our soldiers brought freedom to Iraq- we deposed Saddam, we brought in democracy- remember the purple fingers? Our soldiers are doing good things, and I stand by them..

you hate the troops?
what have they done to deserve you?

I know YOU are not a soldier or vet.

SIEG HEIL ! AIPAC rules, thru its' Koolaid Kongress puppets, left or right.

Hillary, AIPAC grl, Bushie soulmate, for preznit !! LIEberman the vice..
Koolaid Kongress ALL aboard - to collect AIPAC pay.

This link http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=11666
provided by a poster above shows why these two votes are tied together.

You can print what you want until the cows ... - the WW3 is ante portas.. Should you print too much, Koolaid Kongress has the no-free-speach hospitality Halliburton Centers ready.. Or, if you claim to love AmeriKa, you'll go to the Iranian front.. Free choice !

I feel sick every time I look at the current congress, and it's voting record. Congress has basically abandoned us and done this instead:
1. Told the troops in this illegal war that time served does not deserve equal time off (I think the State Prison System has a better good time benefit than the army these days)
2. Made Habeas Corpus no longer the foundation of our legal system
3. Even though 70%+ of the people that elected them disagree, they will continue this war by funding it, and wage more war's of aggression at the White House's discretion
4. Free Speech is now to be condemned.
This is totally unacceptable. They are overwhelming us with issues that should not be issues, like the constitution still being the cornerstone of this republic, and then passing laws and amendments that only very few agree with. Where is the MSM, where is the direction for this congress Mrs. Speaker (the representative from my district), where the hell are we heading??? Frankly I am terrified, and not of terrorist attacks. I am terrified of my own elected officials and that no one is checking or balancing the power anymore.

Get over it- the Democrats LOST both elections....Oh, and the 1.5 million dead n Iraq-big deal-Its war- Sometimes to make an omlette you have to break a few eggs. In WW2 scores of civilans Germans and japanese died- do you have issues with that? Would you rather it be 1.5 million dead americans? If we pull out Iraq, they will follow us here, and thats what will happn..

BaScOmBe @ 392:

A Patriot @ 374:

Look, we are at war, and now is not the time to question the war or the president- we should stand by the troops and the president. Once we win, THEN complain to your hearts delight- but till then, blasting the war is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Our soldiers brought freedom to Iraq- we deposed Saddam, we brought in democracy- remember the purple fingers? Our soldiers are doing good things, and I stand by them..

you hate the troops?
what have they done to deserve you?

I know YOU are not a soldier or vet.

FYI infant, I served in the US Navy back in the 1980s, so i did serve my country, and when my time was up, got an Honorable discharge. So I AM a veteran. Are you? Do you realize how much the left are hurting the troops when they dismiss all the efforts of our troops in Iraq as being a failure?
And please, spare me the freudian projection- ascribing the right with the negative traits that in fact denine the left.
It has always been Republicans who stood for the troops- liberals are the ones eager to accuse the troops of commiting torture, and relish calling them murderers- Libs seem to show more compassion for the dead Islamofascists than they do for killed US soldiers..Very sad.

leslie @ 26:

Is this the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment to go to war with Iraq?

It basically offers the opinion that the US should defend the troops against Iranian hostilities. It is an opinion - the sense of the senate - which they will use as authorization.

rage @ 12:

I can't believe these idiots wasted time on this crap when there are so many other more important issues to address. All these morons need to go!

I agree. They can do this crap to show how "patriotic" they are and so can we. "Get the hell out" in November. Thanks to Rob Wexler, my congressman, for his eternal balls and not being a lemming, ever.

Ha-ha, the Democrats! Yeah, they'll save us. Man, that's funny. The fuckin' Democrats.

OK The demcrats and repussies can turn in their rubber stamps for a new one that say "WAR STAMP"

miss_kitty @ 22:

I VOTE TO CONDEMN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

Can I get a holla?

YEA

Ahh living in Facist America...

Um gosh, I'm so glad the Democrats are in the majority so stupid things like this don't happen anymore.

I have given up all hope for the United States of America.

Holy SHEET!! The Kyl thing passed ??? Does this give the green light to go to war with iran ?

wtf is going on ? As watched Ach Mahn seal his own fate yesterday i wondered how soon we'd be in iran and it looks like he better hop on a plane and head for a bunker.

The Truth Hurts @ 5:

Thank God. I would hate to waste time debating the additional $180 BILLION that Chimpy wants...and will get...for his worthless war.

Much better to keep rehashing this kind of bullshit.

Exactly, over at DKos, a poster sums it up pretty succinctly with the comment:
"So this is the Important Business that Congress has to deal with instead of Impeachment?"

Oh, and if history is any judge the War Profiteering Dems will give Bush MORE than he asks for. They are just as much a part of the Military Industrial Complex as the Rethuglicans.
If Nicole had watched the Documentary "Why We Fight" she wouldn't be so surprised when legislation such as the Lieberman/Kyle amendment passes with so much bi-partisan support.

Time for The Citizens to change the game. Instant Runoff Voting is a start.
www.fairvote.org

If that doesn't work, I've got my pitchfork handy.

More proof that the Republicrats are just 2 sides of the same corporate/elitist coin playing all of us in the middle for chumps.

I'm glad I ditched them and went Green in the last election - I knew they'd sellout sooner or later as they're as much bought and paid for as the other guys, two different animals feeding at the same through.

So who the fuck is representing the will of the people? Certainly not the fucking democrats! Where the fuck is their supposed sense of morality?

I'm ashamed to have registered myself as a dem...

Should be called the Demoncrat Party from here on out.

Dimple @ 391:

I agree with what someone upthread said...

"Bring on the Draft!"

The sooner, the better.

The window for Revolution closes a little more every day.

I will agree one error of this administration is not bringing back the draft- It should never have been repealed- Freedom isnt free, and American citizens shouldn't enjoy the fruits of freedom in this country until they serve their country. i agree- bring back the draft...

Revolution? Obvioulsy you hate america- if so, please leave my country..

The day a communist revolution comes to this country is the day I go liberal hunting with my trusty rifle....
But that day will never happen, the communists are a minority in this great country and will be squashed

Our Orwellianite friend "Patriot" would have you believe the opposite of reality.

"Patriot"'s loyalty lies not with the Constitution, but with war and it's corporate benefactors.

Habeus Corpus was outdated, anyway, right "Patriot"?

Good conservatives are against big government. When you pick up your rifle, to shoot all those damn libruls who are trying to preserve liberty, you might want to wear some kevlar.

R I P....U S A

hareli @ 381:

Paul in LA @ 367:

I think rather than just look to Israel, you may as well look at SAUDI ARABIA, which is Bushco's main ally.

Show me one -- just one, I'll shut up forever -- instance of where Saudi Arabia has called for pre-emptive war against Iran because of nuclear weapons or for any other reason.

Saudi Arabia has been onboard for this genocide of Iraq the whole time. They signed off on the attack on Iran when Dick Cheney made a special trip over there to get their final approval. Open your eyes.

Saudi Sunnis blew up the Twin Towers. Saudi Sunnis don't care anything about Shia Iran. Saudi Sunnis have been Bush's business partner, he covered for Bin Laden's with the famous evacuation before the FBI could investigate, and Ashcroft blocked investigation of SA movement of money -- such as investing on Nine-eleven (but I'll leave that there, since we are here).

Meanwhile, Bushco's disaster in Iraq has seriously damaged Israel's national security (release of hundreds of tons of high explosives, and cesium and strontium from unguarded Tuwaitha). I agree that the rightwing racists in Israel want to destroy Iran (and Iraq) -- but to lay the blame on Israel and ignore the Arab side is absurd.

Straight Shooter @ 180:

Our Senators are bona fide nutcases, except for these votes against endless war:

Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Feingold (D-WI)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Sanders (I-VT)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)
Wyden (D-OR)

America is in its last throes. Sad. Very sad.

Not a single one from NY, NJ or PA?? Fuck, you can't even win when blue states win!

Hareli: "We had MANY MANY more freedoms seven years ago. And we allowed this dismantling over the past seven years, as you say. We did. Through ignorance, disinterest, fear, not caring, abdication, bunch of reasons."

That's a pile of shit. WE had no choice at all. Our elections were stolen, our protests were unheard by the crooked media, and the crimes were not punished by the complicit DoJ.

I've protested this, hard. I am in the streets in twenty minutes, AGAIN.

No way I (or "we") are guilty of these crimes. Maybe you are (if you want to be).

Fernando-Argentina @ 384:

Seriously, this gives all the excuses mr G.W.B. needs to start a war with Iran.

The fact is that he doesn't need any more excuses, or any approval. He doesn't believe in the Congress except as a rubberstamp, and neither do the Republicans quite obviously.

We've been busy going over that cliff for quite awhile. And taking everyone else on earth with us. But it hasn't been without a fight, and the fight is NOT over.

Bashing our 24 good Senators for the 70+ assholes is just counterproductive.

Anthology @ 386:

Thanks for nothing Clinton.
Thanks for less than nothing Obama.
Go to hell.

Obama didn't vote as a protest of the resolution.

A Patriot @ 396:

BaScOmBe @ 392:

A Patriot @ 374:

Look, we are at war, and now is not the time to question the war or the president- we should stand by the troops and the president. Once we win, THEN complain to your hearts delight- but till then, blasting the war is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Our soldiers brought freedom to Iraq- we deposed Saddam, we brought in democracy- remember the purple fingers? Our soldiers are doing good things, and I stand by them..

you hate the troops?
what have they done to deserve you?

I know YOU are not a soldier or vet.

FYI infant, I served in the US Navy back in the 1980s, so i did serve my country, and when my time was up, got an Honorable discharge. So I AM a veteran. Are you? Do you realize how much the left are hurting the troops when they dismiss all the efforts of our troops in Iraq as being a failure?
And please, spare me the freudian projection- ascribing the right with the negative traits that in fact denine the left.
It has always been Republicans who stood for the troops- liberals are the ones eager to accuse the troops of commiting torture, and relish calling them murderers- Libs seem to show more compassion for the dead Islamofascists than they do for killed US soldiers..Very sad.

Hey you so called Patriot. You are full of crap! My son's father is a soldier who has been to Iraq off and on for the last 4 years, as is my uncle, and lots of my friends and NONE of them want to stay in Iraq indefinitely. They want to be home with their kids!! You're such a piece of crap to spout off this nonsense that a desire for peace is somehow hurting our troops. What a crock of nonsense. Blargh.

Go away we don't need your ignorance here.

BennyP @ 385:

Where is the Revolution?

That's like saying, 'Where are my children' after masturbating.

America really has it in for herself.

I've said it before but I have to say it again: the Dems who voted with the Neocons on this, be they senators or representatives, can all go to hell. I will do my best to vote out the Bushies, but once that's done, I don't think I'm going to give a dime of my money or a second of my time to a Democratic Party that is so spineless and unprincipled that it will take sides with the Forces of Darkness because they're weally weally scared that if they don't they might offen part of their base and lose some campaign funds. Screw them all. There are still some Dems with spine, but this vote has brought out the true colors of the rest of them -- and it's scared-shit brown.

Reply to 387
--- Why not try Kucinich?

Because I read that Kucinich wanted to or did introduce legislation to BAN hand guns.
This alone tells me he would try to legislate other things that congress does not have the right to legislate.
I listened to Conyers and Pelosi sing and dance until they got elected and the first thing out of both their mouths is, "Impeachment is off the table"! I fumed! She is the speaker and he is in charge of the judiciary committee. The perfect setting to introduce impeachment. Even if it doesn't have a chance!

I will vote for Ron Paul because of his firm convictions in the constitution and his voting record reflects his convictions. I do not believe he could be swayed to vote contrary to his convictions and I cannot say this about any other candidate.
I like his ideas about foreign policy and the IRS and smaller government and FREEDOM.

As far as the house and senate, I will vote against every incumbent.

John in Michigan

"...Because the Senate if fucking crazy town!" --Jon Stewart, TDS

Don't Reid and Pelosi have ANY control over what gets onto the floor. This is frickin' rediculous. Sneaking ammendments to authorize war with Iran and condemnations of expressions of free speech. We needed to elect Democrats for THIS!

equilibrio @ 4:

Lieberman/Kyl Amendment= what we get when Pelosi keeps Impeachment off the table.

But she sure was quick to put this condemnation bill on the table.

The electorate put the Democrats in power to end the Iraq war, and they have instead given President Caligula a green light to start a war with Iran. What are we to do now?

Hey you so called Patriot. You are full of crap! My son's father is a soldier who has been to Iraq off and on for the last 4 years, as is my uncle, and lots of my friends and NONE of them want to stay in Iraq indefinitely. They want to be home with their kids!! You're such a piece of crap to spout off this nonsense that a desire for peace is somehow hurting our troops. What a crock of nonsense. Blargh.

Go away we don't need your ignorance here.

I applaud the service of you son'd father and you uncle- they are fighting for freedom-The way we can give them moral support is to pipe down with the character attacks on Pres Bush. The soldiers need to stay in Iraq until the job is done. Would yoiu rather the Islamofascists attack us?

Its a paradox, but the only way we can be at peace is to be at war.

A surrender would be seen as an act of weakness by the islamofascists-we CANNOT stop until we kill all the terrorists. Its a choice- remain on the offence, or remain oin the defense

Thanks Mike Honda for voting against this stupid move on bill.

I can see neo-cons voting for this bill, but democrats? That makes me sick.

A Patriot @ 377:

I understand Dems are furious that they had their butts handed to them in the last 2 presidential elections- but for gods sake, put the partisan squabbling aside and stand behind the president and the troops...We are are war against Islamofascism- and if we pull out of Iraq now- they will follow us here- and they will not distinguish between liberal or conservative Americans- they'll try to kill all of us...I really wish the venom from the left could end...Im a proud right wing Republican, but i come to liberal sites like this to reach out in hopes I can find some people who value the lives of Americans above their political party...

So you're one of those dickcheney sucking.....

Fuck U Lieberman! The truth hurts, eh!
I Love Move On!

Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) “At best, it’s a deliberate attempt to divert attention from a failed diplomatic policy,” said Webb. “At worst, it could be read as a backdoor method of gaining Congressional validation for military action, without one hearing and without serious debate.”

Watch his speech on the floor...
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/25/webb-kyl-lieb-iran/

A Patriot @ 395:

Sometimes to make an omlette you have to break a few eggs.

Racist pig.

John @ 409:

As far as the house and senate, I will vote against every incumbent.

No, you won't. You get to vote for ONE Congressperson and maybe one Senator.

In my own case, Boxer is in, Feinstein is in, neither is up in 2008. My Congresswoman, Diane Watson, has voted NAY on every aspect of this illegal war, and so she did today. She's an incumbent -- and she has my vote for as long as she wishes to serve.

It would help if you didn't exaggerate the problem, which is big enough already.

sulphurdunn @ 413:

The electorate put the Democrats in power to end the Iraq war, and they have instead given President Caligula a green light to start a war with Iran. What are we to do now?

Realize that you were lying to yourself when you told yourself that "the electorate put Democrats in power..." because that's nonsense.

Dems didn't lose a single incumbent in 2006. We ADDED representatives from Republican districts, some who are good Dems and most who are DINO, but that is the deal going back decades. The suggestion that the electorate did anything other than give up on the Republicans is unsubstantiated by the facts. CERTAINLY those Blue Dogs and R-voting Dem Senators did not promise to get us out of the Iraq war they have been voting for all along.

So it's a myth, one that is used by many to locate scapegoats, in order to make GRAND decisions like not supporting the entire caucus any more (as if you ever did). All the problems in the Congress did not evaporate because we retook the leadership of both Houses. After 2008 we will be MUCH more able to improve the country through legislation, but this conspiracy and coup is a fault PRIMARILY of the justice branch, the Republicans, and the media. It's not something that Speaker Pelosi can stop singlehandedly.

Otay @ 412:

equilibrio @ 4:

Lieberman/Kyl Amendment= what we get when Pelosi keeps Impeachment off the table.

But she sure was quick to put this condemnation bill on the table.

It was not put on the table by Democrats.

"Democrats had given no signal of allowing a vote, but using a `motion to recommit’ procedural motion, which they are automatically allowed on every bill and which does not need to be announced beforehand, Republicans forced a vote to attach the language to the continuing resolution that funds the government as a stop gap while the Senate passes the final appopriations bills." (TPM)

John @ 409:

I will vote for Ron Paul because of his firm convictions in the constitution

Nevermind his belief in absolute sovereignty, which means that there would no longer be ANY federally-guaranteed rights, no federal mandate from the courts, no international law, no warcrimes law, no UN, and no warcrimes trials for Bush or Cheney, because they are within their rights within absolute sovereignty to do whatever they please overseas that the country will let them get away with.

Nevermind that he believes B&C should be impeached, but won't file the bill.

Nevermind that he is a REPUBLICAN, and he votes REPUBLICAN, and he has no chance of getting the nomination.

He's just the isolationist version of the rightwing Republican, the same sort of isolationism that was willing to do nothing to defend against Hitler until a major war was necessary.

hadenuf @ 328:

Smack_dab @ 301:

rduke @ 299:
It is time to arm ourselves to the teeth...

Lock and Load.

We stand together... or we hang separately

The blue states have chosen to disarm themselves with tough anti-gun laws while the Red staters have been buying guns like there's no tomorrow.

Yeah, armed for libruls.
Are you kidding?

How long have you been coming here?

I am as liberal as it gets.. 6.7-6.8 on the chart..

I am armed in such ways that even Ted Nugent would nuzzle my nuts..

You should be armed... Lock them up have a safe.. have tons of ammo... But have them...

(plus they are fun as fuck to play with . on a range.. safely..)

I mean look how far voting is getting us... FFS the very least we can do is be a porcupine populace then sheep to the slaughter ...

All Liberals should have a Shotgun 20 boxes of 00 buck and Slugs... and an Assault rifle.

If you refuse... perhaps me and mine will one day liberate you and yours from the camps...

But.. Wish you were here.

Paul in LA @ 419:

A Patriot @ 395:

Sometimes to make an omlette you have to break a few eggs.

Racist pig.

How is that in any way racist? If I offended muslims, big deal. I will not cower and respect the Islamofascists-they are evil, all of their kind, and the sooner people see it, the safer we will be- We have scores if islamofascists ion this country- i have news- America is a CHRISTIAN nation, not a Muslim nation- and its high time Christians take this country back from the pagans, stanists and athiests..

425: "How is that in any way racist? If I offended muslims, big deal.

Your bigotry and hatred are not Christian, in case you thought they were.

Your bigotry and hatred are not American, in case you thought they were.

And you can't respond to the FACT that Bush failed to guard the explosives in Iraq, or supply sufficient body armor, or supply sufficient transport, or supply sufficient troops, or supply a LEGAL excuse for invading.

So, to recap: You're an unamerican, unChristian bigot, and you support the worst Commander-in-Chief in U.S. history.

rduke @ 424:All Liberals should have a Shotgun 20 boxes of 00 buck and Slugs... and an Assault rifle.

Assault rifles are illegal in many states. AND, if you have registered weapons, and the police decide to come to your house, it's SWAT, not some cops and a few questions.

I support the ownership of weapons, and I've fired most forms. But to suggest that it will solve your problems down the line is HILARIOUS. They can stand across the street with their microwave guns and fry you in your house by the time the police state you fear is online.

John @ 409: "As far as the house and senate, I will vote against every incumbent."

That's hilarious. You will NOT vote on more than one of each, and you're going to vote against your Congressperson, but you don't even know their name or their record?

So let's see, you can vote against Senator Levin (Stabenow isn't up until 2012). In 2002,

"Carl Levin (D) (inc.) 60%
Andrew Raczkowski (R) 38%
Eric Borregard (Green) 1%"

So voting against Levin will probably not remove him even if you get ten of your friends to join you. And if you did, you will simply be electing some Republican numbnuts to make you feel better about your stance (no candidate has announced, so it looks like Levin will get a pass anyhow).

Wow, what an accomplishment that will be.

Thank God!!! Finally some backbone.

For those posting, but not marching: please see Burma for how to affect governmental change.

Loonie @ 29:

Fine. Condemn away, you spineless shitbags.

I'm presuming you're posting from your forward position in Iraq? Or is it perhaps your comfy chair in your stateside living room/office/mom's basement?

A Patriot @ 376:

nonbeliever @ 372:

A Patriot @ 368:

Freedom of speech does not protect treasonous speech.

Exactly who is the arbiter of what is treasonous speech? You?

I am a patriot sir, i stand by my country, my president and the troops.

Yeah, well I'm not American so I can just say you're a fucking idiot without offending anyone.

I'm so angry over this and the passage of the Kyle Lieberman Amendment in the Senate that I'm speechless. I just don't understand how spineless Dems can slap down their own base and support this President and his horrifying war again and again and again.

I'm beginning to think that there really is no hope for this country...no redemption, no saving grace...nothing but a robotic whining sound as we all go down the drain of history!

pussy democrats

Last one to the border, please turn out the lights.

Looks like we are going to end up a one-world corporate financial plant.

According to TPM they took out the "offending language". Geez.

Sorry, bloggers are stupid sometimes.

Moveon, as I said earlier, is a membership based grassroots organization of VOTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The GODDAMN congress just voted AGAINST THE WILL OF VOTERS?????????

WHAT?????????????

And tell me why bloggers heads arent exploding all over the country as we speak?

Bill Orielly condemns an organization of voters AND NO ONE COMMENTS THAT THE PRESS IS CONDEMNING VOTERS?

Are you kidding me?

Shame on you Nicolle and John and the rest.

Where can I find a Democratic politician who doesn't bend over and spread ass every time he sees a Republican?

The Dems are a bunch of submissive collies….

Take that back. I have a wonderful collie (adopted through Collie Rescue) who is loving, loyal, and dependable. I resent your comparing her to the invertebrate Dems ("Invertacrats"?)

Good for them! Glad to see them taking the issues that are paramount to all Americans. Now, if we could get them to act this quick on things other than Schiavo and Gay Marriage bans, then we would be in great shape. Health Care anyone?

The Democrats are spineless amd worthless.

These people are all a bunch of a**kissing chickensh**s - afraid of their own shadows. If there is another attack - fake or real - this country will give up what remains of their rights, and run to W to save them.

time for a draft

They just lost my support. I think we're going to have to take the long view here and just let the Dems lose until the DINOs are purged from the party, because electing Democrats like these means nothing.

If your progressive get used to being considered outcasts, weirdos, out of touch, crazy, and ignored.

mdhatter @ 8:

341 to 79?

I cannot fathom how Delahunt voted "yea"???? grrrr.

He'll be hearing from a constituent.

Another one of those "games" being played by Republicans. They attached the
resolution condeming MoveOn to an emergency, interim appropriations Bill, which
funds the administrations Cabinet members. In other words, Repigs were again
successful in gaining the votes only because the condemation of MoveOn was
attached to a funding Bill.

lol the democrats and republicans are no different...

Heretic @ 53:

Where can I find a Democratic politician who doesn't bend over and spread ass every time he sees a Republican?

There's at least one in Minnesota

Answer - Spineless, weak and stupid.
Question - What are the democrats?

1 party 2 right wings

Seig Heil and Praise Jesus!!

The passing of the Lieberman/Kyle act isn't as bad as it first sounds, apparently they defanged the amendment to make it another amendment to wipe your ass with done for show. Apparently, most Dems think they this will actually positively affect their support by showing how darn mad they are at Iran, so much so they can write it up as an amendment.

(3) that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and [stop] the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies;

(4) to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph (3) with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies.

and here is what was added.

“Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stated on September 16, 2007 that “I think that the administration believes at this point that continuing to try and deal with the Iranian threat, the Iranian challenge, through diplomatic and economic means is by the preferable approach. That the one we are using. We always say all options are on the table, but clearly, the diplomatic and economic approach is the one that we are pursuing.”

Honestly, nothing changing the status quo is going to get past until after the next election. It's sort of sad to see all these Dems fall in line to pass toothless 'we support the troops and hate everyone who disagrees statements' that they call amendments to influence their image for the next election, but I don't see how their fooling anyone with this crap. If it wasn't for the danger of Republicans passing destructive legislation, Democrats might as well go home until 2008.

I don't care what anyone says. The Moveon ad has proven to be a colossal mistake. C'mon how can they not see the blowback followed by the weak-kneed reaction by the pussy Democrats. Stupid!

That'll teach the people at MoveOn to exercise their First Amendment rights.

Webb voted the way his consatituents expected of him this time. Good. Maybe he caught enough flack over his FISA vote that it's sinking in that departures from principles won't be forgiven.

MoveOn should be applauded for calling a liar who has betrayed the country with his pandering mendacity what he is. Show MoveOn some love... send them money.

Zifnab @ 1:

Liberalism is dead. All hail the new prevailing ideology - Dumbass.

Dumbassism

WTF happened!! COWARDS all of them!

I see ... I am critical - justifiably - of john and nicolle and you dont post the comment.

How Huffington of you.

Site Monitor: Don't get your knickers in a twist. Your choice of foul language got you caught in our filters. I cleaned it out.

It has become apparent the MoveOn is a terrorist group who's goals are the overthrow of the legitimate government of this free nation. Further steps need to be taken!

Obviously only the incumbents from my state..........

Out with the old and in with the new. Not sure how that exasperates the problem of these dip shits doing nothing for me.
I may still continue to support Levin. But the rest have not earned my trust.
I think the problem is with these people in congress making everyone so apathetic that they (the average citizen) DON'T exercise their right to vote, because they DON'T believe their WILL is being represented.

Exasperating a problem is what the current Congress is doing. Not what I am doing.
I am exercising my right to vote out a pathetic bunch of non representative pigs.

John in Michigan

Paul in LA @ 420:

John @ 409:

As far as the house and senate, I will vote against every incumbent.

No, you won't. You get to vote for ONE Congressperson and maybe one Senator.

In my own case, Boxer is in, Feinstein is in, neither is up in 2008. My Congresswoman, Diane Watson, has voted NAY on every aspect of this illegal war, and so she did today. She's an incumbent -- and she has my vote for as long as she wishes to serve.

It would help if you didn't exaggerate the problem, which is big enough already.

What is funny is your presumption that I don't know my congressman's name.

It is Joe Knollenberg. I know his record and I don't like it Either.
I have had correspondence with him and have not liked his replies.
When he is up, I will vote against him.

Perhaps your assumptions should involve your own personal experience.

John Halonen

Paul in LA @ 428:

John @ 409: "As far as the house and senate, I will vote against every incumbent."

That's hilarious. You will NOT vote on more than one of each, and you're going to vote against your Congressperson, but you don't even know their name or their record?

So let's see, you can vote against Senator Levin (Stabenow isn't up until 2012). In 2002,

"Carl Levin (D) (inc.) 60%
Andrew Raczkowski (R) 38%
Eric Borregard (Green) 1%"

So voting against Levin will probably not remove him even if you get ten of your friends to join you. And if you did, you will simply be electing some Republican numbnuts to make you feel better about your stance (no candidate has announced, so it looks like Levin will get a pass anyhow).

Wow, what an accomplishment that will be.

I'm so glad Tom Allen represents my state.

A Patriot-

You idiot, a revolution is what freed your ass from the British a couple, three years ago, bro! You'd be speaking the Queen's English and drinking high tea, otherwise. So what's so Communistic about a Revolution now? Is it a "LIBERAL" thing? I have no clue why your opinion of those who DON'T think as thou do is so very vile. What are you afraid of?

Domnic the Geek-

Ha! Had a wee bit of the java this morning, or just a fright misinformed?

AnthonyMason2k5 @ 416:

A Patriot @ 377:

I understand Dems are furious that they had their butts handed to them in the last 2 presidential elections- but for gods sake, put the partisan squabbling aside and stand behind the president and the troops...We are are war against Islamofascism- and if we pull out of Iraq now- they will follow us here- and they will not distinguish between liberal or conservative Americans- they'll try to kill all of us...I really wish the venom from the left could end...Im a proud right wing Republican, but i come to liberal sites like this to reach out in hopes I can find some people who value the lives of Americans above their political party...

So you're one of those dickcheney sucking.....

Question to Patriot-

In Vietnam, did the Vietcong follow us home when we finally got our asses out of there? And before that, did Germans follow us back to the US when we went over and fought in THAT war? That sounds a lot like something George Bush said in one of his "State of the Union Addresses" that he coicidentally doesn't repeat anymore b/c of the two questions I asked you at the outset. That argument simply doesn't have any validity.

Also:

1.) Islamofascist is a hegemenic word that makes one believe that simply b/c one practices the religion of Islam, that these individuals by proxy are fascist. And saying such a word makes you a bigot, flat out.

2.) Is there only one path to God? If so, how do you know for sure?

3.) This, the United States, is not inherently Christian. Yes, there is a majority of people living here that are Christian. But, this does not a Christian nation make. There are also Islamic, Buddhist, Wiccan, Athiestic, people that are obviously not Christian living here as well. It is a nation of multi-cultures, multi-philosophies, and multi-languages.... One of the many reasons that we call ourselves UNITED states. Not United Christian Nation of America.

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