Ahmadinejad vs. Khrushchev
The fact that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was allowed into the United States, and was given an audience at a prestigious university, continues to shock the conscience of many of our conservative friends.
Rick Perlstein reminds us of how the American character shined in 1959 when Nikita Khrushchev — considered at the time the most evil and dangerous man on the planet — visited the United States.
Khrushchev disembarked from his plane at Andrews Air Force Base to a 21-gun salute and a receiving line of 63 officials and bureaucrats, ending with President Eisenhower. He rode 13 miles with Ike in an open limousine to his guest quarters across from the White House. Then he met for two hours with Ike and his foreign policy team. Then came a white-tie state dinner. (The Soviets then put one on at the embassy for Ike.) [...]
Had America suddenly succumbed to a fever of weak-kneed appeasement? Had the general running the country — the man who had faced down Hitler! — proven himself what the John Birch Society claimed he was: a conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy?
No. Nikita Khrushchev simply visited a nation that had character. That was mature, well-adjusted. A nation confident we were great.
In the post Cold War-era, it’s easy to forget the context, but the USSR was the most dangerous rival the United States had ever seen. And we welcomed Khrushchev with open arms, anxious to show him and the world our greatness.
Now, not so much.
What's the competition, who has more flies around them?
Last I heard Khrushev was dead.
Well, we were also scared of Khrushchev. The Soviet Union had missiles pointed at us. Nobody in their right mind thinks Iran is a serious threat to the U.S.
The point outlined in the OP.. was exactly my sentiment.
It is EMBARRASSING to have the mouth breathing knee jerk idiot assholes in charge of shit...
Back then the US took pride in what and who we were. Today it seems that our pride is in the fact that a lot of Americans enjoy being assholes.
We took the high road in those days today we run others off the road.
What yellow freaking cowards. No wonder the 29 percenters worship their coward king.
Rusty Shackleford @ 2:
I think that's the key, right there, Bub.
People that remember/study U.S. History are America Haters.
Thanks for bringing up this issue. It was on my mind, too....
We used to try to be better than our enemies (or "enemies"), to show an example.
We don't do that anymore. Walt Kelly's "Pogo" comes to mind again....
This country is being run by spoil children.
Pogo needs updating. "We have met the enemy, and he is republican."
I know, not as catchy (or even true) as Walt Kelly's immortal line.
This contrast between Khrushchev's and Ahmadinejad's treatment in America says it all:
our country is, in at least some ways, now less confident, less supportive of free speech, and more provincial than we were in the 1950s. Hard to believe, but true.
The Soviet Union had 7,000 ACTUAL nuclear missiles pointed at us, for forty years; Iran MAY, AT SOME POINT, develop a nuclear weapon. But you would think from all the right-wing alarm that we are facing certain doom if Iran gets nukes.
We aren't.
But the right keeps selling terror. Fear is their business--their only business. For Rudy, it's 9/11 24/7.
And all that fear has set back true American values at least a half century.
Eisenhower wanted to avoid war with the USSR, we (our knuckle-dragging leaders) want to start one with Iran.
This country is being run by spoil children.
Yes, BUT only with the help of a compliant media.
When you look at that way, you can understand why Ahmadinnerjacket would love to have some nukes.
Yes, well that was long before they spiked our drinking water with hallucinogens....
Busholini is, in the words of Carlos Mencia, a "Dee-dee-dee"!
"Our conservative friends" are scared we will hear ideas other than theirs.
They want to be "the deciders", remember? Think for us. They are so threatened by open thinking universities they would close them all down if they could.
In many ways I believe that Khrushchev's respectful treatment on arrival in the U.S. was a recognition of the serious threat the Soviet Union could have posed to America. Even the rabid anti-communists were kept in line so as not to offend. I mean, just how badly do you want to p&*%-off a country that could seriously harm you?
The right's blatant disrespect for Ahmadinejad, and through him Iran, appears to be a tacit admission that Iran poses no real threat to the U.S.
Well, yea... But that was back in the 'old days'... Way back in a post WWII time when we were actually looked to in hope by the rest of the world... and actually had 'some' ligitimacy to holding that position of hope for the world.. Back before we allowed ideological morons and fascists to take control and run our government into the ground......Ike tried to warn us... for all the good it did...Which, as it turns out...not much..................JD
99 @ 15:
You mean this is all a bad acid trip?
Thank goodness!
This was in 1959, three years after Krushchev's infamous quote:
http://www.bartleby.com/66/52/32552.html
ATTRIBUTION: Nikita Khrushchev (1894–1971), Soviet premier. remark, Nov. 18, 1956, to Western diplomats, Kremlin, Moscow. quoted in Times (London, Nov. 19, 1956).
Khrushchev later explained this remark as an idiomatic expression to mean “we will outlive you” (i.e. communism will triumph). On another occasion, Aug. 24, 1963, addressing a group of Westerners in Split, Yugoslavia, he referred to his controversial statement: “Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you.”
=====================
Pray tell, when has Ahmadinejad ever hurled such an invective at our country? That's how thin-skinned, gullible, and ignorant of history many Americans have become, that bush waves his magic wand and they fall under his sway, without even questioning the basis of his rhetoric.
If the wingers just want to live under a rock, why don't we just get W to take them all to Texas with him when he leaves.
Then they can spit at and shoot at everything they don't like. Before you know it, they'll just have each other to off. Splendid plan (apologies to all good Texans).
The true title of this post ought to be: "Ike vs. li'l Bush"
And during the Cuban missile crisis when the US went to France to get support, and wanted to show Charles de Gaulle pictures of the missiles on Cuban soil, Charles de Gaulle said, " you do not have to show me the pictures , I trust what the US government says" . Or something like that.
And, when Nicky attended the UN, he took off a shoe, and used it as a gavel, banging it on the desk. I recall the headline in the NY Daily News "WE WILL BURY YOU" ... bold, screaming font. We has a Federal fallout shelter in the basement of our elementary school stocked with barrels of "food' and we practices "duck and cover" under our desks. We were all scared shitless. And, we had leaders in charge. So it all worked out OK.
I think some in this country felt the attacks of 9-11 made them feel they could release the ugly side of their character. They use it as an excuse to act ugly and rude to anyone they don't like. I guess you could call it the 9-11 chip on their shoulder.
That awful day was gave us no excuse to forget who we are or what we stand for. Instead we should show that even those attacks will not cause us to become like the very people who did the attacking. It's a shame that we let our country become what it is today in the eyes of the world. We've done ourselves way more damage than any "terrorist" could ever hope to do.
the bush admin NEEDS an enemy to draw attention away from their clusterfuck-like governance and miserable/illegal iraq war--and they definitely want to make ahmadinejad out to be the son of satan.
it help bush deflect his overt and glaring failures. gives the rabid rightwing some good hate-material. it helps distract the easily distractible. and it also helps give pretext for the war we will soon launch against iran. which will be the straw that finally broke america's back.
Not to mention the idea for K's American visit was Vice-President Nixon's. Why doesn't Ahmadinejad get to visit Disney World, like K's famous stop at Disneyland?
"That awful day was gave us no excuse..."
I have no idea how that "was" hopped into that sentence. :roll:
Wow. My grandfather was Khruschev's body guard as provided by the U.N.. He ws there during the notorious shoe-banging incident. He also guarded Castro at the U.N.. Good times.
When the Big K was being driven to his residence in DC, he asked the President if they could stop so he could use a restroom. They secured a hanger so the leader of the Evil Empire could use the restroom, and he went in, coming out several minutes later. When the President of the Free World asked the Head of The Soviet Union if eveything was o.k., Khrushchev said yes, and he complemented Eisenhower on the softness of our toilet paper and the quality of our soap. Eisenhower was pleasantly surprised at the Soviet leader washing his hands after using the john.
Bit NOLA @ 22:
Bush was born in New Haven Connecticut.
Don't make Texas pay for Connecticut's mistake.
patthemonkey @ 31:
I've heard rumors that Russians are polite in restaurants and don't say "M'Fer" constantly when placing orders. I've heard similar rumors about Iranians, is this true?
patthemonkey @ 31:
I heard that Ike was also pleasantly surprised that Nikita didn't ask for "more motherfucking iced tea."
Plus everyone forgets Khrushchev's "We will bury you" statement referred to the U.S.S.R. burying the U.S. economically. It was a figurative statement. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you
Damn, Weaseldog beat me to the punch!
I'll bet both Khrushchev and Ahmadinejad learned not to talk with food in their mouths.
Looks like we're burying ourselves.
Weaseldog @ 32:
ANOTHER mistake from CT = Joe LIEberman.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad looks definitively presidential (and he has some technical experience of having to deal with American foreign policies), could be the one for the democratic party presidential race, maybe he doesn't want to go back to Iran.......He will eat those Zionist Neo-cons for breakfast....I say Mahmoud is hot...and he is the ticket for your rehabilitation in the Middle East.
[Tag edited-Sitemonitor]
hadenuf @ 37:
You want hear Ahmadinejad going on about how he's looking forward to eating that pig.
Weaseldog @ 42:
errr, won't...
But... but... 9-11 changed everything!
Heliogabalus @ 41:
Is all bold the new signature for wing-nut trolls? What happened to ALL CAPS? Anyway, poor grammar will definitively give you away.
[Hey! Don't be so hard on our guest-he DID leave the 't' at the end unbolded ;) Sitemonitor]
I'm afraid that the US is no longer evolved enough to host the UN. If we are going to go all weak kneed and lily livered at the sight of people we don't agree with then it's time to close the doors and only deal with people who don't make us frightened. So, sorry UN, it was fun while it lasted, but now all you people make us too scared to think.
Rusty Shackleford @ 2:
You took the words right out of my mouth.
I don't have any conservative freinds.
Margaret @ 48:
I have some conservative-dressing friends.
Poor Niki was irate when told he couldn't visit Disneyland due to security concerns!
The President of Iran pulls the chain of certain right wing groups because he is both articulate and unafraid of the status quo. He asks very uncomfortable questions that our friends are too polite to raise.
The number one tabu question that he asks is "why does the Holocaust give Israel any legitimacy?" The flip side is the question that the Columbia president asked -- "Do you support Israel as a Jewish nation?" Now it is not anywhere in the American lexicon to support the idea of a nation that exists only for one religious or ethnic group -- but that is exactly what the Israel supporters require of us. If you do not support the idea of an Israel that exists above all for people who identify themselves as Jews -- no matter about the rest of the population -- then you are placed on the same shelf as a Nazi. (Never mind that some of the early Zionist terrorists/freedom fighters cooperated with Hitler in the hopes that he would drive the British out of Palestine.)
The next tabu question -- and this is where the "myth" comes in -- has to do with talking about how obsessed the West is with the Holocaust as it relates to Jews. It is such a part of the background noise that I haven't paid much attention to it. However once he raised the issue I realized how incredibly focused our media is on events that happened 70 years ago. It is a rare day that you do not see some story related to the Holocaust on our major media. Quick glance -- CNN runs a very old story about some army barracks that look like the Nazi symbol that I can't spell. NYTimes has that story, along with a story about people trying to recover artwork stolen by the Nazis along with many others. Type "nazi" into the Washington Post and you get page after page of hits. Congress allocates millions to the Simon Wiesenthal centers across the nation for Holocaust centers.
Then there are the questions that are so tabu that the media don't even report them in a distorted form. In the beginning of the speech he mentioned that a former Iranian president and many members of parliment were killed by terrorist attacks in Iran -- and accused the US of sheltering the group that claimed responsibility. (He didn't mention that the US is supporting a regenade group in Iraq that makes cross-border attacks on Iran including attacking a school.)
We don't like what we have to say, so we spend a lot of effort demonizing the guy. We forget that Iran helped us against the Taliban and at one point Israel urged us to have closer relations to them. (They wanted to get Saddam out of the way first.)
The US is looking for boogeemen, jumping at whispers and lashing out at every shadow. At least that's the mindset our leaders and their stenographers would have us having. Is Iran the same threat-level. Hell No!
What gets me about Ahmadinejad's visit is the duping of people to come protest a head of state at the word of right-wing-nutosphere's chief propagandists.
I noticed many signs were very religious in nature...
Site monitor my mistake for the all "bold" thing....and to to the meanie, fiver.
Last time i saw a mouth like that, it has the name Monica behind it (no bold), And what the hell "wing-nut" has to do with that anyway....Mr prepubescent potty mouthed nitwit of the day.
Palolo lolo @ 50:
Yep. That was the Big Crisis.
What scares me about this is the way people who should be raising objections to going to war with 1/3rd of the world are falling all over themselves to show the junta they're good little citizens, from Congress to the president of Columbia U. That's the sort of thing that happened when McCarthyism gave us a war in SE Asia.
We have come a long way in those 50 years!
Because of the cheney/bush administration of the past 6+ years, we are reviled across the world for our use of torture and the killing of innocents in Iraq (a preemptive war of cheney's choice) and Afghanistan. Americans traveling to many places in the world state that they are from Canada - to avoid poor service, hassles and even direct hostility. Our skill at diplomacy lies in the very able hands of condi rice (yeah, right!), and is a laughing stock, when it is even used. I could go on and on....
Yes, we certainly have come a long way!
BaScOmBe @ 52:
The Saudi Kingdom makes the Iranians look positively Liberal by comparison.
Funny how things work...
For an added bonus, it was actually Saudis who attacked us on 9/11.
hadenuf @ 20:
:-P Yes! And, interestinly enough, this link arrived in my inbox at 8:48 this morning! Turns out Pat Buchanan is quite possibly the prime mover for this reminder of our former national lucidity. What a concept!
pissed off patricia @ 4:
just look at the national debt and you realize we pay GOOD MONEY for the right to be called assholes. You'd think we are paying some very good prostitutes the way we keep doling out more money to get screwed. (no slur intended to professional sex workers)
Well, or TIME....
Crap! I need more coffee. Buchanan or TIME....
I blame the main stream media and for most of this.
I was amazed at some of the neocons who think that Ahmadinejad should not have been allowed entry into the United States, and also some other comment that the United Nations should not include dictatorships.
I gleaned to following via Google:
Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
Although it is in New York City, the land occupied by the United Nations headquarters is international territory.
.... the US cannot arbitrarily prevent representatives of member nations from attending meetings of the world body.
Steve, thank you for so eloquently and unarguably pointing out what I was trying to say in yesterday's comments. America once had class. America was once great. Great nations behave so.
"only let right thinking aryans in"-righties
I was a small kid when the missle crisis was going on between Kruchev and Kennedy. We had to wear dog tags, taught where to hide in the event of nuclear war, etc. So, as kids we grew up knowing missles were pointed at us. We also knew about MAD, so we lived with it. All adults at the time thought communists were behind every bush and I teased all my relatives about that.
Now, things were really bad at 9/11, but if the USSR would have ripped one off on us we would have lost millions of Americans. And the difference between Eisenhower and Bush is so vast it boggles the mind. Bush is a punk, a bully, and has shit for brains.
This analysis is spot on. We are a nation led by puny men with little integrity, small minds and underdeveloped morality, greedy and grasping. Unfortunately, I am afraid that these men reflect the electorate, a teeming mass of greedy consumers, usually only concerned about their next big purchase, willing to kill for cheap oil.
WE ARE A NATION OF WAR CRIMINALS
Unlike Krushchev, Iranian President Ahmadinejad was treated badly in New York. Oscar Wilde once pointed out that “a gentleman is a person who is never unintentionally rude.” By any reasonable measure, Columbia president Lee Bollinger was about as ungentlemanly as a host can get. His opening remarks demeaned his guest and disgraced his university and himself.
They were also an affront to the many millions of people who, whether they agree with Ahmadinejad or not, believe that one is always gracious to guests. By our conduct we sharpened our differences with them.
We Americans have historically been lousy listeners and poor observers of people from other cultures. We are known around the world for having small minds and big mouths. We demand free speech but only for ourselves. We think we know the one right way, the American way, and if others disagree with us, well, they’re just wrong.
Americans were especially incensed by Iran’s presumed quest for nuclear weapons, its support of Hezbollah, and Ahmadinejad’s denial of the Holocaust and condemnation of Israel. But what’s to lose by hearing him out? We don’t have to buy it just because he’s selling it.
We owed Mr. Ahmadinejad our attention not in spite of his different views but because of them. His presence in New York does not validate his views. If his arguments make no sense then that fact will become clear; he will have taken enough rope to hang himself. Along the way, we might gain a better understanding of why he believes as he does. And greater understanding of the motives of a potential enemy can only work to our advantage over time.
It would be interesting to see how Hugo Chavez would be received on a similar visit. I tend to think that much of the Ahmedinijad villainization stems from his stance against Israel, as well as the way he looks. I think his looks play right into deep rooted racism that Americans have towards Middle-Easterners.
Here's the difference between what we are now and what we were. (Thanks to http://shiningwire.blogspot.com/2005/06/strutting-cock-and-fighting-cock...)
Chi Hsing Tzu was a trainer of fighting cocks
for King Hsuan.
He was training a fine bird.
The King kept asking if the bird were
Ready for combat.
"Not yet," said the trainer.
"He is full of fire.
He is ready to pick a fight
With every other bird. He is vain and confident
Of his own strength."
After ten days, he answered again:
"Not yet. He flares up
When he hears another bird crow."
After ten more days:
"Not yet. He still gets
That angry look
and ruffles his feathers."
Again ten days:
The trainer said, "Now he is nearly ready.
When another bird crows, his eye
does not even flicker.
He stands immobile
Like a cock of wood.
He is a mature fighter.
Other birds
will take one look at him
And run."
(The Way of Chuang Tzu, Thomas Merton, 1965)
What has happened to us?
Joe @ 44:
Perhaps....but Francis Gary Powers proved that America wasn't a nation that minded it's own business. Now try and mesh the two quickly and I admit, it's difficult but let's try get away from "the rest of the world are the bad guys" is all I'm saying.
The Japanese attacked PH on Dec. 7th, 1941. And for what reason?
All I was really taught was, they attacked and the USA declared that as "an act of war".
It was over OIL folks!!! Yes, fucking OIL again. What is it with the USA controlling the worlds oil instead of simply paying for the friggin' stuff with its wealth.
Only this time, they cut the Japanese of of 90% of their oil supply because the Japanese were trying to expand and go into IndoChina.
Geezus...why is it America either starves people one way or the other with sanctions for trying to improve on their lifestyle and grow as a country but the USA can simply fucking invade countries for that countries resources and their determination to grow?
See the probem gang. It's the friggin' foreign policies and greed of some very rich people in this country.
Ever wonder how and why Hawaii became part of the USA? Disgraceful!
Consider Iraq was to get Sadaam and 2 sons out of power and destroy WMDs. 12 CIA operatives could've done the first job and the second reason was bogus. WOW. 600 billion dollars later (that could've created a healthier America) and look where this gov't has got the USA.
From all this, what boggles my mind is, AND THESE PRICKS ARE STILL IN POWER?
The only thing I can assume is, your bellies and fridge are full, it's football season and you don't want to be bothered. Maybe when everyone is in the dark and without water and hospital services as a result of some extremely pissed off people (reasons above) attacking.
And then you'll hear your mighty emperor start a sentence with, "well, the bad guys have attacked us again for no reason..............."
Remember the old cowboy/calvary & Indian movies where the President always sent a Calvary Captain or some mangy old trapper/translator to negotiate the terms with the Chief of that tribe or nation?
Have things changed any?
Why is it, the US Gov't has never shown respect for it's enemy leaders by having it's leader sit down and talk with the other leader. The USA always send representatives. Is it because of fear? Or how about, they don't want to be humiliated by not being able to answer the questions from the other leader?
I think diplomacy should start at the top and somehow, the USA President (at least this one for sure) does everything to show respect, guts and the proper diplomacy with nations that they deem as a problem.
1- Chavez
2- Morales
3- Castro
3- Sadaam
There's a lot of potential bullshit or peace that can result from getting in the same boat with these guys. But Bush has never even shook their hands, yet they all would love to sit down and for one, let America know what their needs are before they begin to give everything they have away. Kinda like a 2-way street.
Our gov't and media would rather treat us like lemmings and propagandaize us with stories meant to create fear against these other leaders.
AND WE VOTE THEM IN AND ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS!
Smarmy @ 72:
I blame the Yankees.
Dr. Acula @ 49:
Are Christians into cross-dressing?
deathy/epl+ccs @ 47:
Hey you two, get a room.
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