Real Time Overtime: On the MoveOn Vote, Iran vs. Saudi Arabia and getting out the African-American vote
By Nicole Belle Sunday Sep 30, 2007 8:36am
Download | play 
Download | play YouTube (h/t Heather)
On the online exclusive Real Time Overtime, host Bill Maher and guests Michael Eric Dyson, Pete Hamill, and Rahm Emanuel slam Rudy's inconvenient phone calls and take questions from the audience. What struck me is just how ill-informed Rahm actually is.
On his vote to condemn the MoveOn ad, Rahm goes on and on about how it gave the Republicans something to hang on. That may be true, but here's the forest you keep missing, Rahm: The FIRST AMENDMENT guarantees Free Speech, even the sort which you don't like. Funny how the hypocrisy of the Republicans that you take pains to point out didn't keep you from voting with them. Your voting record doesn't seem to indicate that you're paying all that much attention to the vast majority of Americans who want us out of Iraq either.
In discussing the fact that the White House is so focused on Iranian activities in Iraq and ignores Saudi Arabia, Rahm also shows his complete lack of understanding about Middle Eastern politics:
The Iranians are a Persian culture and the House of Saud is a Shiite government, a total different culture and a different people and etc. The question about Saudi Arabia is there is a clear, they have been funding radical schools throughout the Mideast and it is a big problem for us.
Um, no, Rahm. The ruling mullahs of Iran (who are Persian, you got that right, but that's an ethnicity, not a religion) are Shi'a. The Saudis are Sunnis. That's part of the problem. The "insurgents" in Iraq (at least, most of them) are Sunnis.
Login or Register to post comments.
Rahm Emmanuel played a huge roll in determining which Democratic candidates got funding in the last election. He consistently funded campaigns for Dems that had the most Republican platform and were pro-war and pro-bush. He denied funding for candidates that were giving anti-war speeches.
As a result, he morphed the Democratic party leadership into a Republican-Lite role.
bill mahers is a douchbag,
Yeah, Rahm reaffirmed my belief on Friday that he's a gigantic tool. He spouted the same shamless lie that the BEST way out of Iraq was to elect a Democrat in 2008, rather than simply not offering up a funding bill, filibustering such a bill, or impeaching the war criminals in office. Claiming that the Saudis are Shia just put me over the edge.
Rahm is such a stale idiot yet he never ceases to amaze.
The Iranians are a Persian culture and the House of Saud is a Shiite government, a total different culture and a different people and etc. The question about Saudi Arabia is there is a clear, they have been funding radical schools throughout the Mideast and it is a big problem for us.
The House of Saud is a Shiite government?! Say Waaaaaaaa? What a colossal screw up on his part. It reveals arrogance on a stupendous level.
Hi, we will bomb your country to hell but we don't give a shit about your culture, history, language or religion. But we want to liberate you! Or wait..maybe we want to hold your hand.
What a sick joke.
What's the matter, Rahm? Republicans suddenly need help to muddy the waters?
Get a clue or STFU.
I'd have to correct you on one thing. The "insurgents" in Iraq are american.
the saudies are a bunch of sick fucks! sex slaves !yeah they got em!your daughter missing? look for her in the saudie brothels!got terriorists , the saudie royals sponsor them just so they dont rise up and cut thier fucking throuts like they ought to,
Rahm is a Republican, pretending to be a Democrat. He's two steps behind Lieberman.
Both parties look just sick and wrong at this point. It's all going to blow up.
I am beginning to agree with Weaseldog, Rahm is becoming another Lieberman. Sometimes I wonder if anyone in DC actually studies what the hell is happening or do they just grab a dictated thought and run with it?
Look at past empires. What did they do after they managed to invade a couple of countries and survived to tell about it? Why they kept invading until they got their butts kicked. They always overextended themselves.
Are we following the same pattern? If we hit Iran, we will be forced to bring back the draft. I believe bush is counting on this. Then what? How much of the ME can we control if we use drafted troops? And for how long can we wage war against 60 million people? How well can we control the situation? for how long?
If ME oil is knocked out, it is game over. We won't have fuel to bring our troops home.
Weaseldog @ 8:
the real problem here is thier are to many in the democratic party that are just republican plants , how yah going to know who they are? well start with a golwater darling hillery clinton, its a good start!
Uh, Tyson is the crazy boxer. Dyson is the black academe. More lame fact checking from NB.
[It was a typo. More lame assumptions from a potato-Sitemonitor]
goldwater damit
"but here’s the forest you keep missing, Rahm: The FIRST AMENDMENT guarantees Free Speech, even the sort which you don’t like."
I'm really sick and tired of people complaining that "first amendment free speech rights" were violated because someone dared criticize something someone said. MoveOn's free speech rights were not violated - it's that simple. In a sense, the Senate was exercising ITS free speech rights in having this vote. And it can do that, even when they say something you don't like.
Now, should the Senate have held the vote? Of course not. It was a cheap political stunt of the kind that Republicans have perfected over the last few years. But criticize the vote because of that, not for some bogus reason. We're supposed to be better than Republicans. Remember?
Weaseldog @ 11:
Unless we invade Venezuela. /snark
pissed off patricia @ 10:
Since everyone's phone has probably been tapped we might be talking fear. It's all about corporate infiltration and yes men, imo.
Rahm has a chip on his shoulder to prove how "tough" he is to Foxians who'll say "why can't Democrats be strong on national security like Rahm?"
Swashbuckler @ 15:
The Government doesn't have the right to free speech. 'The People' have the right. No where in the Constitution is the Congress, Judiciary or the Executive Offices guaranteed the right to free speech. And the principle by which the Constitution operates is that the People have every right not expressly denied, and the Government has only those rights that are expressly granted.
The move by the Senate and House is a non-binding censure. Censure is a violation of free speech, even if it is nonbinding.
If Rahm wants to bitch about the MoveOn ad, then he needs to redirect the attention to the ad's content, rather than reading the commentary printed on the hem of Rush's boxer shorts.
And we voted Democrat in 2006 to 'end the war.' You're not earning our confidence or our vote by doing nothing, and expecting we'll still vote Democrat in 2008 to 'end the war.'
I just heard on tv that tsa is going to ban some children's toys from planes, as they might be used to ignite an explosive devise. Jesus, is this a stretch or what? Seems now we have a war on toys. First the lead paint and now this.
people in indiana are stupid , one letter to the editor this maorning blames alkida in this country for the lead in childrens toys for the poisoned pet food also, its them arabs, the lady across the street from me thinks were being nasty to our servicemen in iraq by chargeing them with murder because some of them murdered 25 iraqy men women and childrens he he, after all this dimwhit says were bringing them freedom and thier killing us for it, and she goes to church every sunday but as she says we ought to kill all them sandni88ers! god where did you go wrong allowing these followers of your not to have been aborted when it was needed!
Haven't you realized what moveon.org represents to Hilary, Inc. by now? Another opportunity to slap its base constituency into a corner to reassure power that Hilary is one of them.
Further proof that your real choices as far as party affiliation are "Repug" and "repug lite".
Weaseldog @ 19:
Hate to burst your bubble, but Rahm Emmanuel is an idiot. Saudi Arabia is not a Shiite regime. Their state religion is Wahhabi Islam, an off-shoot of Sunni Islam. They view Shiites as takfir, or traitors to Islam, which is why they are constantly conspiring against Iran, and why their fanatical young men are murdering Iraqi Shiites by the thousands as we speak.
As for Bill Maher, he's on the right track, but this goes way beyond the 9/11 hijackers and the Saudi suicide bombers in Iraq:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
The only reason Saudi Arabia is not the central front in the War on Terror is that our federal government is filled with people as corrupt and stupid as George W. Bush and Rahm Emmanuel. And we'll all probably be paying a high price for that sooner or later.
pissed off patricia @ 21:
It's all done for fear mongering. It has NOTHING to do with security and everything to do with reminding the people over and over that the threats are viable and imminent. As if the plastic utensils and seat trays can't be used for ignition.
My god, Rahm Emanuel is a prat.
Swashbuckler @ 25:
Rahm thinks the house of saud is shia--Nicole Belle thinks that the heavyweight champ was on Real Time Friday-- we're all a bit confused
Weaseldog @ 29:
Notice how Rahm keeps saying "Democrat Party"
His words betray him. He's a Republican in disguise.
[Hey snotball. What's your problem today? Take a break-Sitemonitor]
I think some folks think that MoveOn.org is a corporate style entity that exists as discrete body.
Fact is, many of us here are MoveOn.org. Anyone here who has signed a petition, has donated money or time, is a part of MoveOn.org. MoveOn does not have to file a lawsuit in order for those of us that are members to feel that our rights are being trampled.
Just as someone who has been mugged can't be told they weren't mugged, simply because the thief was never charged.
Spud @ 33:
Bloody hell, it's last week's dustbin.
Weaseldog @ 35:
Our forefathers dumped tea in the ocean so we would never have to drink tea again or use words like prat
It's Dyson not Tyson!
Professor Dyson is now at Georgetown.
Weaseldog @ 11:
Fortunately, the US gets most of its oil from Canada and Mexico (apparently, proximity matters more than supply at the source). Unfortunately, if the US continues to fuck up in the international community, even our neighbors might not be so nice anymore.
Tyson became a muslim in prison---Shiite or Sunni??
McDuff, I saw someone on tv, a while back, show how a credit card can be used as a weapon too. I agree with you this is being used now, especially along with the drums of war toward Iran. Hey, I've seen this movie before and it doesn't have a happy ending.
Blue Buddha @ 38:
Do we ship fuel to the ME to power our Humvees?
Wdmosely @ 37:
Yep... Tyson is the boxer. Though, if Maher had Tyson on instead of Dyson, he'd still be more intelligent than Rahm.
Blue Buddha @ 38:
We get a lot from Venezuela too.
If the ME is knocked out, the whole world will want to buy more oil from Venezuela, Mexico and Canada.
Why the surprise over Rahm Emanueal's ignorance? He's a DLC/DNC/DCCC/DSCC-type corporatist whore. Not to be trusted.
Do any of these idiots in Washington know anything about Middle East culture and religion? No wonder everything is so screwed up. They don't even know who they are fighting! Canada sure is looking good about now.
Peace! Please???
Weaseldog @ 41:
Hmmm... didn't think of that. Most likely that comes from the Arabian Peninsula (SA, UAE, Qatar, etc.). If the Arabian Peninsula decided to stop supplying US troops with oil, the next closest source would be Russia.
MoveOn gave the country a sidetracked argument? How about pukes like you, Rahm, who helped the Repugs sidetrack the country into talking about MoveOn instead of the lies promoted by the Shrub and his political lackey?
Goddamn, some of the Dems are beyond stupid.
Blue Buddha @ 46:
I'm not sure it would be about them deciding. Say as a result of our war against Iran, several ports and refineries were blown up?
We must root out incompetence whatever the party. Sorry, Rahm, you are an idiot.
Weaseldog @ 48:
... to continue, I doubt Russian tankers would risk unloading in a port that's being shelled on an irregular basis.
Weaseldog @ 43:
Indeed. It doesn't matter where it comes from. If there's less of it, everyone pays more for it.
Freedom of speech is a hallmark of democratic society. It was important enough that our founding fathers spelled it out fairly succinctly in the FIRST amendment to the Constitution. It is important because freedom of expression is one of the tools that a liberated people can use to prevent oppression and injustice and to assure the survival of democracy. But it comes with a price tag, it means that citizens will sometimes be exposed to opinions and viewpoints with which they do not agree. But it’s a small price to pay for freedom.
I do not agree with the tactic employed by MoveOn in the recent ad. But I do think that a culture as advanced as that of the US has the capacity to recognize that some expression may cross a line of civility and decorum and nevertheless be protected by the Constitution. .....
See full discussion of Freedom of Speech and MoveOn at www.politicalbalance.blog.com. This piece in its' entirety was taken out of the comments and posted to the blog at Donklephant. One of the most disturbing issues in America today is that we just don't seem to take Freedom of Speech very seriously. Political debate is the very reason is was included so prominently in constitution.
Rahm is a Republican, pretending to be a Democrat. He’s two steps behind Lieberman.
Campaign. Finance. Reform.
Only way to get back representative democracy.
I agree this clip is very interesting in a window into the thoughts or lack there of from Rahm. While I agree that the condemnation isn't a reduction of free speech, it is a glaring misunderstanding of the purpose of the congress. They are to function as the body that creates the necessary laws and provides a check and balance to the other branches of government not to the people that it represents. This condemnation is not their function, but a condemnation of Bush would be. However they did not support Feingold when he offered up even a censure of the president.
Moreover Rahm fails to recognize how this reinforces the republican talking points of the "out of control" "crazy" fringe left. You know that crazy 80% of the country that thinks it is time to start a withdrawal from our occupation of Iraq.
The battle has gone underground amigos.
I am rather astonished to hear anyone say that members of the US Senate do not have Freedom of Speech. Not only do they have the freedom but the means which is something most Americans lack.
Is there anything about freedom to be stupid and ignorant as hell in the constitution? The bill of rights?
I think the disagreement here is whether the censure is actionable.
Because it is non-binding, it probably isn't actionable.
The Senate however did come together as representatives of the people, threatened MoveOn members, and told us to shut the hell up.
The government is making it clear that the little people need to keep their moths shut, or else. they just showed us that they will show solidarity in suppressing Free Speech.
This was their shot across the bow.
Rahm has got to be one of the most clueless people that I have ever heard from and I thought no one could be more clueless than the Republicans. The House of Saud are Sunnis and as it said in the C&L commentary the Iranians are indeed Persians but their religion is Shi'a. If the House of Saud were Shi'a as Rahm claims then they would more than likely be backing the Shi'a militia groups in Iraq (I.E. Al Sadr) just like the Iranians. Obviously, this is not the case. We all know that the Saudis see the Iranians as a threat and are attempting to offset the gains made by the Iranians by backing the Iraqi Sunnis.
You know, I bet Rahm even thinks that the Irish IRA are allied to the British. :lol:
Geez, just how stupid does one have to be in order to hold a seat in Congress.
xoites defends Constitution @ 56:
The Senate as a body representing the will of the people? Or individuals that make up the Senate?
These are two entirely things.
Stopping the funding sounds like a good idea to me but it may be a tactical victory only to become a strategic blunder if it results in a sufficient movement by moderate voters to the GOP in 08 resulting in a more massive and longer lasting conflict in the middle east. The perfect may become the enemy of the good.
Secondly, I believe Emmanual's saying Saudi's were Shi'a was a verbal error and that while I prefer th DNCs 50 state strategy, Emmanual helped get a lot of Democrats elected and we should appreciate that. I'll take a moderate Dem over any Republican every day.
The move-on ad was a mistake. It played to the choir and alienated most everyone else. It may have been accurate but it was counter-productive. It's not enough to vent, you have to accomplish something positive and this didn't. Criticizing it is not a condemnation of freedom of speech. It's condemnation of a bad tactic.
Everytime Rahm takes one for AIPAC he shows up on TV and
no one confronts him and he knows no one will confront him.
I wanted Pete Hamill to embarrass him but he stayed silent
for the sake of decorum.
Weaseldog @ 60:
I don't see how people can justify their own government censoring free speech. They seem to think that the relationship between the government and the constituency is that of reciprocity. Well, it isn't. The government is supposed to protect people's rights. The government can't pass laws or apply pressure on various organizations to limit free speech. It's not their job and they don't have a right to do so. End of discussion. If a politician wants to criticize moveon.org they should do so in their free time as a citizen, not on the house floor.
Joe O. @ 59:
I think you required to have an IQ of 80...
...or below.
The people got the Dems elected.
Rahm Emmanuel made a directed effort at insuring that the most pro-war candidates got the lion's share of the funding. He worked hard to suppress candidates that were anti-war.
Appearances suggest that Rahm Emmanuel may have groomed little known Republicans to take Democratic seats as Democrats. As most of his hand picked Dems are voting straight Republican, it looks fishy.
I understand that many people will take loyal Republican who pretends to be a Dem, over a Republican that has left the closet any day. But since they vote exactly the same, I have no loyalty to either.
McDuff @ 63:
I thought the vote was stupid and appalling but it made no attempt to censor. There was no attempt to prohibit Move-on from speaking, they just said they didn't like what Move-on said and they have every right to criticize Move-on. We have evey right to say we don't like their criticism. And so it goes.
Rahm Emanuel is an idiot. So moveon gave he rethugs ammo, so they never should have run it? What, does he think the wouldnt haave found some other manuafactuered outrage to hang thier hat on if it hand'nt been run?
So what does he prompose we do? Oh yes, JOIN tyhem in casting a vote condemiong it! Brilliant Rahm!
it's this running scared mindset which allowed the Bushies to have thier way thelst 6 years.
Thanks for the advise Rahm, but I on my way to blow joe Lieberman now.
Spud @ 13:
That is what I thought too.
Wow...the Errors are just piling up. And DYSON was the only one on that panel that knew what he was talking about.
The majority of this country can't find Iraq on a map, why should our representatives be any different?
Swashbuckler @ 15:
What do you think will happen the NEXT time a MoveOn-type organization attempts to purchase a Petraeus-type ad in the NY Times or any other "respectable" publication?
lvogt @ 66:
Individually, Senators can say what they like. But they expressed government and public policy by taking it to a vote. It is the government's official position now that they will not accept criticism from the peons.
I think what people are trying to say is that the government has the right to spend the people's time and money, protecting the Republican Party from criticism from the people.
Stephen @ 68:
OMG, have you people not ever made a typo before? Good to see you focusing on the important things in life.
Weaseldog @ 71:
Exactly. Just because MoveOn "gave the Republicans ammunition" doesn't mean the Democrats had to load the Republicans' gun and fire it at America.
It was absurd to let the Republicans frame the debate by portraying Petraeus as the neutral arbitrator of the effectiveness of Iraq policy since he was Bush's cherry-picked general with a bias in favor of the surge anyhow.
That said, what I would have done if I was MoveOn is to retract the ad and name the real parties how betrayed us, namely the President and his accomplices, who lied about the intelligence in order to get us into this quagmire, and the Congress who failed to impeach him and the VP for these lies. Those are the true traitors.
So long as we're picking between two corporate financed candidates, the Democrats are going to be happy as the half-loaf party being better than none. What are we hearing now, that we have to continue financing this war indefinitely unless a veto-proof majority votes to bring the troops home? What, is Bush holding our troops hostage?
Since electing this Congress in the hopes of winding down the war, instead, we got an escallation that should revert back to "stay the course".
There are other issues - I suppose half a loaf is better than none.
C&L fan @ 70:
Excellent point.
Nicole Belle @ 73:
Typo...? Yes. But...REMEMBER...Names are Important.
It was insulting to that man. Especially since he made the most sense that evening....
NoBuddy @ 75:
My crouton sized bit from the half loaf is covered in green mold. Is it safe to eat?
I was struck by the fact that nobody corrected rahm's assertion that the Saudis are Shia.
Then, Rahm tries to defend his vote in favor of condemming Move On by saying it was a diversion for the Republicans to hang onto. That is a Red Herring. Of course, Move on made a strategic political blunder with the add but that is not what the condemnation was about, Rahm. How lame and sad that Rahm caved into Republican pressure and that he is in the upper eschelons of the Democratic Party. Where are the really smart and ballsy people we want up there? Congress had no business voting to condemn that ad. The Democrats should all have not voted at all either way as a statement of the waste of time that it was and still is.
Rahm Emmanuel is a tool of AIPAC and the DLC and obviously not very enlightened or educated about the Middle East. He has no loyalty to liberals with progressive ideas and is one of the reasons that the Democrats are incapable of righting so many wrongs over the last 6.5 years. The gains we made in the last election are due to Howard Dean's 50 state strategy which Rahm and his ilk in our party fought against all the way.
I watched this weeks Real Time last night and it absolutely pains me to watch Emmanuel. He is an embarrassment.
sorry, but rahm is as evil as bush
he is using the war to increase the chances that dems will be elected in 08
he is therefore putting party over country and over people
rahm needs to go
Nicole Belle @ 73:
It's spelled "zOMG"
Weaseldog @ 1:
Exactly. As far as ending the Iraq occupation and getting our kids out of there, don't expect anything from any democrat in either the House or the Senate. The ones that say they are for ending it also, are liars. Republocrats all of them! It's all smoke mirrors to continue the illusion that AmeriKa is still a democracy. If this occupation was going to be ended anytime soon it would be over by now. The WarPigs are continuing to demonize Iran and Congress has declared the Iran Republican Guard a 'terrorist entity'. The balls been rolling on this too long to stop it now. It's just a matter time before the bombs start dropping in Iran. It's almost as if the WarPigs are daring some 'terrorist entity' to cross the line and attack our soil or interests first.
The 110th Congress is just as worthless and as rubber-stamping as was the 109th. In my opinion the vote concerning the MoveOn ad sealed it. In other words anyone who agrees with it is a traitor and are to shut-up and stay in our free-speech zone. F*#K Congress, the Senate and the F*#king Government.
Welcome to the United State of AmeriKa.
They're all idiots. The others on the panel (and Maher) sat there and said nothing. Nobody corrected him. Come on. That's Middle East 1012.
Maroons. All of em.
What an ignoramus. He doesn't know the most basic facts about the region-- things any average citizen with access to a BBC broadcast ought to know-- and yet he feels comfortable pontificating on how the activist base should keep quiet, and let him and his fellow out-of-touch DLC hacks define the debate.
Wow.
Wahh, Wahh, Wahh!
Why is it against the rules for the democrats to say: "Only if the democrats win in a landslide will the troops come home?" I do not think putting our deployment in Iraq decided by the outcome of the 2008 election is a bad idea.
The American people rewarded bush in 2004 for his invasion, why should the democrats bend over backwards to correct the mistakes the American people make? The problem I see is not with Rahm or Lieberman, the problem is with the American people.
Seele @ 87:
not to mention diebold and election fraud by the repigs!ehh
Johnny2Bad @ 85:
includeing maher!
Bluesage @ 80:
I ran across an interesting little tidbit somewhere the other day. Did you know since 1973 the U.S. has given the Israeli Governments 1.6 TRILLION dollars in foreign aide, mostly military. That is the official amount. It's probably three times that amount in actuality. Private Charities...60 billion. This is part of the reason our Government interferes in Mideast affairs. Foreign aid to Israel has been automatically figured in to our country's fiscal budget since 1960. Recently they requested more on top of their usual amount.
And our borders and seaports go practically unguarded because of a lack of money.
Jerry @ 84:
well put ,traitors all of them!
I don't buy the "Blame it on Diebold" claim. Bush should have lost in a landslide, but this was prevented by the huge amount of supporters that idiot has/had. Even if Diebold threw several hundred thousand votes, the bush disaster was so bad, he still should have lost.
But he didn't. Because the American people still voted him in. Swift Boating? Anybody with their head out of their ass could have seen through that nonsense, but plenty didnt! I see the same problem now, and even if the population is slightly the wiser: how much of the population wants us to Bomb Iran?
I think it's high.
lvogt @ 61:
thiers no such thing as a moderate democrat , thiers only reagan democrats and these are really just republican trash that washed up on our shores after the magots were finished with them, this guys as magoty as they come!
Congress has NO business using the peoples time to criticize free speech, that some disagree with and find political points to be made in.
There are people killing and being killed. Osama on the loose, Katrina victims to stablize, economic problems, America's infrastructure (as bridges) crumbling. Out of all the most important issues of our time, and there are many right now. They want to cry and condemn certian peoples free speech and ignore their own free speech bias.
More Repubs must go in '08, so start selecting who they are and work to rid us of them..........
I heart you Nicole. I just thought it could be fixed. I would not be at all offended if any mention of it got deleted by the monitor
Seele @ 92:
and yet you probably buy shit from china at wall mart!
tyree, Jerry, Weaseldog obviously want to end our continued military involvement in the middle east, but are they in the majority?
I think support for another unprovoked attack this time on Iran is big in this country. Remember this country is a democracy and if a majority of the people want war, we are prolly going to be going to war. And if Iran is being swiftboated to drum up support for this unprovoked attack, should we be focusing all of our attention on the swiftboaters, or does some of that attention need to be focused on the American people who fall for this bullcrap time and time again?
tyree @ 96 - thats a silly comment about china and wallmart, my Intel processor comes from china! But getting back to my post, there is alot of hatred in this country toward Iran, and I wouldn't be so quick to blame the swiftboaters of Iran for the American people stupidly falling for the latest anti-Iran rhetoric. Some of that fault deserves to be heaped on the American People themselves.
Seele @ 97:
in mqany cases such as ohio and florida besides the diebold machines the voters in districts that vote democrat were denied thier votes by to few machines long lines and other crap like crapping around throwing folks off the voteing rolls because thier name sounded like a fellons name , and by god its going to happen again in 08 and youll still be blameing it on the people voteing for these cruds!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seele @ 92:
The myths that we have an all volunteer army and that we have plenty of troops, persist.
Not only are we an instant gratification society, but we are a full throttle society also. Our technology has come so far that we think everything in the world can be run reliably at high speed all of the time.
So our military is just another machine that can be pushed to perform ever more amazing feats, without ever resting.
Our fine people in the National Guard didn't enlist to help secure oil supplies for Halliburton. They enlisted to help in natural disasters, like Katrina and New Orleans. I once thought about joining them myself, but remembered that they were abused in Vietnam. I was told for many years that this was a mistake that wouldn't be repeated. But I'm shy of people telling me what I want to hear.
And there would be no need for stop loss, if we had real volunteers.
The public at large, trusts that our military is breaking and that they could conquer Iran easily, since it was easy to get into Iraq.
They don't understand that Iraq had been bombed and sanctioned for almost a decade. They don't understand that Iran is fresh, well provisioned and ready to fight.
The College Republicans are in for a rude awakening. When the draft comes back, officers will be needed. Most of them aren't going to be rich enough to avoid being drafted if their number is called. When quotas have to be met, draft boards will only be able to let so many of them slide.
They laugh at us now, but we're only trying to save their lives.
that these warmongers will start a war with irans allmost a sure thing , and you can bet assholes like hilley obama and half the undercover repigdemos will join hands and support the cause, weve been screwed and were going to stay screwed as long as we cant tell whos a real democrat and whos the pricks pretending to be demos!!!!!!!!!!!
tyree @ 99:
several hundred thousand votes being denied in Florida by election workers and/or diebold does not excuse the millions who actually did turn out and vote for bush. Remember over 100 million voted in each 2000, and 2004's elections. I still don't put much creedence toward "Blame Diebold" The American voter is to blame for getting bush reelected.
im not defending the american people as far as im concerned many many of americans ive seen or the stupidest god damed idiots that thier idiotic mothers ever dropped out of an orfice that should have been surgicaly sewed up shortly after they were born!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
someone shouted "patsie" when they mentione the 19 saudi hijackers
tyree @ 101:
I think there is broad support for an attack on Iran in this country, remember this country is very racist and the Iranians have a disadvantage of being the wrong color, the wrong religion, and speak the wrong language. Remember the protests at the president of Iran's visit to Colombia college? They were carrying on like Auschwitz was located inside Iran their hatred for Iran is so huge.
The politicians will only attack Iran if the American people let them, and based on our rewarding of Bush in 2004 with a second term (despite the several hundred thousand votes lost by claims of Diebold and Ohio and Florida shenanigans,) the American people are on record of endorsing attacking middleastern countries.
Rahm's job is to hate Arabs and it shows.
Pretty funny that his handlers peddled him as a razor-sharp tough-guy.
andy @ 104:
Ahh, that is what the heckler was saying! I couldn't make it out.
I think it is a smart move by the Republican-Lites to push the gay issue to get support for a new war. President Ahmadinejad's comment about there being no gay people in Iran, is helping to fan the flames.
On the other hand, Saudis just lop off the heads of gay people in the public square. Yet, they remain our allies. Heck a new motion picture just got released that paints a Saudi as an American friendly action hero, and a fighter of terrorism.
tyree @ 103:
I don't know if I would go that far! The problem I see with the American people is the vast majority has an irrational fear about everything in sight. Alot of people are able to see through the rights claim that everyone is out to get us, but I think we are in the minority. And who is to say the right is purposely lying to scare us? The right is very stupid, they prolly actually think the Saudis are shia like Rahm claims.
This is unreal. A US Congressman that does not know that Saudis are Wahhabis and support Sunni insurgents.
Weaseldog @ 78:
If you have nothing else to eat, maybe so. Right now you have nothing else to eat. Your Democrat crouton might include better Federal judges and maybe, a better deal for Social Security, health care and so forth. It's just not going to contain better Middle East policy, in part because all candidates pander to AIPAC.
Take Social Security for example. 20 years ago, workers were told to pay higher payroll taxes to stabilize Social Security. The resulting surpluses, intended to deal with the retirement of the baby boomers, were instead loaned to the government, and converted by Bush into tax cuts for the rich. The deficits have been run up by Bush and the Republicans to a point where the Social Security IOUs can't be paid back. Now, we're being told Social Security needs to be "reformed" to deal with the surpluses that were looted. Had we continued with the balanced budget policies of the Clinton administration, perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation.
Still, it is at best, a half loaf situation. Kucinich, who doesn't seem likely to win, is the only one I'm hearing on the issues that concern me (I saw the Travis Smily and AFL-CIO debates). End of free trade, single-payer health insurance come to mind. With the front runners, free trade will continue, and health care will at best become corporate welfare for the insurance industries, as Medicare prescription assistance was converted into corporate welfare for the drug industry.
I just checked the box, my crouton was made in China and may contain a hefty dose of melamine to keep the price down.
What really makes me angry about those supporting Hillary and Bill for POTUS is that this bastard Rahm will be put right back on the world stage from the White House. Hope that we are able to wake voters up before it's to late.
You gotta watch dum-dum Rahm defending hate-crime legislation:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uIsWWJ4ZdHg
Weaseldog @ 58:
It's only a matter of time until it is binding and then they can start loading the boxcars to the new halliburton camps.
Michael @ 110:
Congressmen represent the American people, and I don't think Rahm is the only one in this country that dosn't know the difference!
Weaseldog @ 108:
That's what happens when you have a morally bankrupt nation full of complete assholes that only care about cheap gas for their barn sized vehicles.
#1 Rahm Emmanuel played a huge roll in determining which Democratic candidates got funding in the last election. He consistently funded campaigns for Dems that had the most Republican platform and were pro-war and pro-bush. He denied funding for candidates that were giving anti-war speeches.As a result, he morphed the Democratic party leadership into a Republican-Lite role.
I usually am a pretty good first impressions kind of person and the first time I saw Rahm Emanuel I thought this guy cannot be trusted. Boy, has he ever proved me right. He is a liar, an idiot, and NOT a Democrat. He has always back-stabbed Howard Dean and he likes to make everyone think he is very knowledgeable when he doesn't know s**t! In other words I can't stand the man!!! Look for him at any photo op, Pelosi or Reid, and he'll be there.
Shifting Targets by Seymour Hersh
2 points gang:
1- Here in Canada, we have a lot of Iraqi immigrants who came here during the Sadaam years. Some fought against Iran. All who did tell me, the Iranian soldier fights to the death. He comes at you with a gun until he runs out of bullets, then he takes out a knife until he loses it, then he'll try and stragle you. They are the fiercest they had ever seen. If the USA invades Iran, they are invading Gods house. There will be no end until there is retribution....and that was from Iraqi immigrants.
2- After a long discussion at our golf club on Saturday afternoon, it was concluded that if the USA could trade 50% of it's wealth for about 10% more intelligence on worldly, political & cultural matters. Everyone would be better off. Greed for intelligence...what a dream.
Rahm is a dick. I can't believe that guy in his position would say something like that about the Saudis. Un fucking believable. How could he be so wrong about such an important subject. Oh. Wait. That is his main characteristic.
Dems like him are wolves in sheeps clothing. I'm sure they mean well at some level, but they are really wrongheaded about most things.
Emanuel seemed like a third-grader next to Michael Eric Dyson. Now that I have seen and heard another large part of the Democratic leadership it looks like both parties need to be swept out and replaced. Pelosi, Reid and Emanuel? No wonder nothing is getting done; what sorry excuses for leaders! Ill-informed, feckless pretenders! I guess the real question is: are we going to have to change the whole electoral system in order to erase cronyism, nepotism and ignorance in politics. It sure seems that way. I am strongly considering changing my political affiliation from Democrat to Independent after supporting Nancy Boyda and then watching her vote gutlessly to fund the war, condemn moveon.org etc. And now the top three Dem leaders in the polls for President can't commit to getting the troops out of Iraq immediately! If this keeps up I won't even vote for a Democrat. We have to have candidates that reflect the will of the American electorate or we are doomed!
Carakav @ 32:
=====================================================================
That's an astute observation.
You may have something there.
Shit! That was the worst performance by Rahm ever.
Jerry @ 90:
Waaa.
Emmanuel is a fanatic zionist who supports the Israel's bloodthirsty Likud Party who have used their influence (Money) to push the US (Idiot Bush) into invading Iraq and now are screaming for our troops to invade Iran. Don't believe a word Emmanuel or Schumer say about getting out of Iraq. They are wolves in sheeps clothing and should be demoted from their leadership positions.
As stated upthread, I too was amazed at what a tool Rahm is.
The Dems need to disband and just start over.
Rahm Emanuel is an ass with the ability to mumble
Rahm Emanuel (d-Israel)
Rahm doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. I'm not familiar with him, but found him appallingly ignorant and a very poor speaker. He makes it up as he goes along.
Politicians get away with this crap because the average American has no idea-- Sunni, Shi'a, Persian, Arab etc.: are those carpet types?? They don't even kow where Iraq is, nor Saudi Arabia, or Iran. Hell 1/5 can't even find America on a map.
PS I am a fan of Bill Maher. He's not a politician, he's a comedian. No one likes a heckler, but I disliked his call for security. Freedom of speech, and all that... (Don't tase me bro. Funny, and not really, but SO TRUE!)
Rusty Shackleford @ 83:
lulz
oscar @ 129:
Yes, and like Lieberman, under the disguise of being US politicians, are doing this for Israel.
Ignorance is dangerous and the sooner we all start reading history books, the better we'll understand who the frig just might be the aggressor here. Going back 6 months isn't when all this shit began folks. While the USA is still trying to get their shit together over slavery and racsism that dates back 140 years ago, these problems over in the ME date back 1400 years ago. Yes, I'm sure every American is really knowledgable of all that it entails.
This gov't has our heads so far up our asses no wonder they lead us around like fucking lemmings.
Rahm Emanuel is a P.O.S.
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/20070930_bill_maher_vs_rep_rahm_ema...
Rahm Emanuel: A Growing Conservative Concern Within The Democratic Party
Hillary Clinton's "middle of the road" politics have very conservative roots attached to it. The Democrats seated many new congressional representatives, and you can bet some of them are Republicans in disguise. In any event, the conservative influence is penetrating the Democratic Party big time, and the Democrats better find out where it's coming from.
What if the Republicans saw the political tides turning before the resent congressional and Senate, to a lesser degree, revolt took hold? Could one tactic be to take the "if you can't beat them join them" approach to beating the Democrats? This would allow for Republican minded representatives to infiltrate the Democratic Party with the express intent to shift it to the right. I see this happening a lot lately.
I was shocked to see there were so many Democrats voting to fund this crazy war. If I were blind folded and told to guess who was making a war funding supportive speech, I would probably guess wrong on more occasions then usual. The list is growing, and it is directly related to the "middle of the road" politics that Clinton's now employs.
To some degree, we are a symmetrical country and feel comfortable with a sense of "middle." However, this country is tired of the political right in a big way. The "middle of the road" philosophy is dead by way of George W. Bush and his supporting war mongers. Clinton's campaign cannot stand another affirmative war vote. One more and Barack Oboma will be our next president, which is good from where I coming from.
The complexity of conservative infiltration is thick,and the Democrats must hold true to the ultimate objective: Get Bush and the Republicans out of the power seats. We live in a broken country without the correct checks and balancing structure that has made this country great. The Republicans, if they win any more power, can capture too much power. If the Democrats don't make a dent into what the Republicans have build for themselves, the game will be over for a long time.
Besides telling our your Representatives what you think, understand what is at stake. This is not a simple us verses them fight. On many levels this is fight to maintain a way of living in equity. There cannot be a lost in objectivity based on what the Democrats have not done. We must seat someone who knows what is at stake, and we must support that person, even if they are not your first choice.
Joseph
"We need more LBJ's."
We need more LBJ's??? One Vietnam wasn't enough?
[...] Real Time Overtime: On the MoveOn Vote, Iran vs. Saudi Arabia and …The ruling mullahs of Iran (who are Persian, you got that right, but that’s an ethnicity, not a religion) are Shi’a. The Saudis are Sunnis. That’s part of the problem. The “insurgents” in Iraq (at least, most of them) are Sunnis. [...]
rahm emmanual, i.e., Auerbach upon entry into the US, is obviously at tool of israeli intelligence. How else can one account for ballerina boy, who's father was an Irgun/Stern Gang terrorist, work for israeli intel during the 1st Gulf War, turn around and come to the US and be a VERY high up in the clinton admin, then become a Congressman?
All a set up and he's a shill for the likudniks and neo-cons, MIC shills of the highest order. How else can someone NEVER say a godamned thing, but end up in the most important of positions unless he's there to do someone else's bidding?
Rahm is one reason why it is hard to care which party is in control.
And I was amazed in the clip to hear how absolutely stupid he sounds.
And - did I hear him call it the "democrat" party?
Ick.
Mugsy @ 136:
I was surprised by that comment as well. Maybe what we need is another Eisenhower...someone who understood how dangerous the military-industrial complex is. We will never have a true representative government until we have campaign finance reform. I wish there was a way to just clean house from top to bottom, but seeing how impeachment is "off the table" with our democratic majority congress...I'd say we are truly fucked.
Edwin @ 131:
So asking a studio audience to be quiet during taping is a form of censorship? Maybe all library's should be shut down because they wont let me yell "patsie" at random times.
Rahm Emanuel is a dual-citizenship, (Israel/US) card-carrying Zionist, and as such does not have credible standing to even comment on Palestine, the Arabic/Persian Middle East beyond Israel UNLESS HE QUALIFIES HIS COMMENTS AS SUCH.
Ask him his Real Name, his fathers' experiences as Israeli Terrorist, his own vetting to remove anti-war Democratic Candidates...until he comes clean his credibility is non-existent and tatamount to LIES
Rahm is a fifth columnist, pure and simple (with the blessings of most of the party).
Login or Register to post comments.