Jon:

...You’re slowly going from Nixon to Mr. Burns.

Excellent.

These kids don’t want the government telling them what they can or cannot die from. It’s just wrong.

Yeah, at the rate our esteemed representatives from both 'parties' are going these children will get the same opportunity when they....

Grow up to be adults.

The whole SCHIPS scam is a pathetic attempt by our 'leaders' to show us that they an get something done by passing something that affects approx. 4 m. cute, 'lil' kids.

One question for the squirming mass of pus-sacks currently infesting Congress...

What about the other 43 million folks who are uninsured?

Got any plans for them?

Besides letting their dead bodies pile up outside the emergency rooms?

Yeah, I. Did. Not. Think. So.

I don't know what's sadder, Bush's lack of empathy or that it took you two days to post this. I laughed my butt off when I saw this on Thursday.

Compassionate Conservatism - If you're not rich, you're screwed!

Bush's alternative to SCHIP:
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=1129

Oh, yeah, Bush proves once again he's mentally retarded.

I think I need a translator for everything John Oliver was saying.

sam @ 12:

It would be nice to have health care for children, however I think charities, churches and other organizations (even local government) should do it NOT the Federal government. The Federal government has 2 jobs, print money and protect our civil liberties. EVERYTHING else thet try to do has a negative impact on our country. I wish you guys would realize that.

You all know Ron Paul is by far the best candidate, really the only one who is what a president should be. Another Libertarian named Harry Browne had a simple message, would it be worth it to give up your favorite government program if you never had to pay income tax, property tax, gas tax and run your life and business without excessive government regulation and interference again?

That was easy for me to answer and I think it is easy for you too. I don't have a favorite government program, in fact the only thing I EVER got from the government was college money, although that was in exchange for 4 years of my time in the military. Be honest with yourself, exactly WHAT benefits do you get from the federal government (I mean real personal benefits not just what you're supposed to get)? Now WHAT does the federal government take from you? Is it a fair trade?

Most liberals THINK there are all these government programs that help many people but the reality is quite the opposite. You need to make a paradigm shift in your thinking.

You must realize that there has never been free market capitalism. However, for about the first 100 years the US has something close and that made this country the greatest in history. For the last 100 years we have been moving back and forth between socialist (welfare state) and fascist (warfare state). Today th US federal government is literally worse than Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. Corporations and central bankers OWN most politicians. The idea that lobbyists are the problem is ridiculous because politicians today already have their marching orders BEFORE they are allowed to take office.

The only hope this country has is to radically reduce the size and scope of the federal government. NO MORE PROGRAMS. Abolish the Federal Reserve. Stop paying Taxes. Stop supporting the 2 party system because they are both for big government. Stop all wars, especially the wars on 'terror' and 'drugs'. Those are both FAKE and are primarily to support the CIA and invisible government (who incidentally are the real terrorists and drug dealers).

so...
You think Mr Burns is a Libertarian?

In all seriousness I agree that total government reform would have to include the goal of reducing government to less than 1/10th of its size and eliminating the duplicity that exists between fed state and local governments. It would free up so many tax dollars that local organizations could be set up, funded by local citizens to help out the local poor.

It would be sink or swim for many groups, but we are supposed to be adaptable. Right now, most programs are opportunities not only for government waste, but corporate greed.

Sam, check out the Ron Paul article at http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

Excerpt, handwritten letter from Ron Paul: " I don't need to tell you that our American way of life is under attack. We see it all around us -- every day -- and it is up to us to save it.

The world's elites are busy forming a North American Union. If they are successful, as they were in forming the European Union, the good 'ol USA will only be a memory. We can't let that happen.

The UN also wants to confiscate our firearms and impose a global tax. The UN elites want to control the world's oceans with the Law of the Sea Treaty. And they want to use our military to police the world."

Ron Paul is dead-on with respect to PNAC and a few other issues, but most of the time he's one sandwich short of a picnic.

sam @ 12:

It would be nice to have health care for children, however I think charities, churches and other organizations (even local government) should do it NOT the Federal government. The Federal government has 2 jobs, print money and protect our civil liberties. EVERYTHING else thet try to do has a negative impact on our country. I wish you guys would realize that.

You all know Ron Paul is by far the best candidate, really the only one who is what a president should be. Another Libertarian named Harry Browne had a simple message, would it be worth it to give up your favorite government program if you never had to pay income tax, property tax, gas tax and run your life and business without excessive government regulation and interference again?

That was easy for me to answer and I think it is easy for you too. I don't have a favorite government program, in fact the only thing I EVER got from the government was college money, although that was in exchange for 4 years of my time in the military. Be honest with yourself, exactly WHAT benefits do you get from the federal government (I mean real personal benefits not just what you're supposed to get)? Now WHAT does the federal government take from you? Is it a fair trade?

Most liberals THINK there are all these government programs that help many people but the reality is quite the opposite. You need to make a paradigm shift in your thinking.

You must realize that there has never been free market capitalism. However, for about the first 100 years the US has something close and that made this country the greatest in history. For the last 100 years we have been moving back and forth between socialist (welfare state) and fascist (warfare state). Today th US federal government is literally worse than Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. Corporations and central bankers OWN most politicians. The idea that lobbyists are the problem is ridiculous because politicians today already have their marching orders BEFORE they are allowed to take office.

The only hope this country has is to radically reduce the size and scope of the federal government. NO MORE PROGRAMS. Abolish the Federal Reserve. Stop paying Taxes. Stop supporting the 2 party system because they are both for big government. Stop all wars, especially the wars on 'terror' and 'drugs'. Those are both FAKE and are primarily to support the CIA and invisible government (who incidentally are the real terrorists and drug dealers).

Yeah, that worked real good here prior to FDR. Every day they'd send the clean up crews out to pick up the dead bodies of those who had died in the night from starvation, disease and drunkeness. And yeah, slavery another thing you so-called libertarians overlook. If it wasn't for action by the nasty, evil Federal Government black folks would still be slaves.

Your need to get yer head out of your ass and read some actual history instead of what momma home schooled ya.

Moran.

Curtilingus @ 20:

Straight shooter,

Please tell me one candidate who has enough sandwiches to make a picnic.

Yea, and I'm sick of ham and turkey.

Brilliant!! Thanks John and John.

OK everybody....All together now..."Always look on the bright side of life..."

AC

Moron is not spelled with an A. I didn't think anyone could reply with a stupider post than ujm but you get the retard award.

This country will not survive another 4 years of more federal spending on wars or health care/environmental programs. Welfare and Warfare is destroying us, if you can't understand that then you deserve what you are creating/supporting.

sam @ 27:

AC

Moron is not spelled with an A. I didn't think anyone could reply with a stupider post than ujm but you get the retard award.

This country will not survive another 4 years of more federal spending on wars or health care/environmental programs. Welfare and Warfare is destroying us, if you can't understand that then you deserve what you are creating/supporting.

The fact that you cannot see a difference between war spending and health care/environmental spending betrays the fact that you are incapable of seeing shades of gray. Your arguments are all-or-nothing, throw-out-the-baby-with-the-bathwater idiocy. You have a very simple mind. It must be a great comfort to you.

There must be a happy medium.

Maybe we could try dividing the country into North and South.

gene214 @ 31:

sam @ 12:

. . . . Stop all wars, especially the wars on 'terror' and 'drugs'. Those are both FAKE and are primarily to support the CIA and invisible government (who incidentally are the real terrorists and drug dealers).

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get rid of all government programs! Environmental protection? Who needs it! Safe food and water? Fuck that noise! Safety and health protections for workers? That's for pussies! Let's get rid of all of that and just put our trust in the "free market" because, God knows, those wonderful, altruistic human beings who run Big Business can certainly be trusted to regulate themselves. Fucking Libertarian bullshit. But what can we expect from people who don't even realize that Ayn Rand was writing a work of FICTION when she wrote "Atlas Shrugged".

Wow Gene, you certainly have a way with words. I love how your sarcasm drips. When are the 'elites' going to realize/accept that we are all in this together. Those who can pay more than the basic 'fair share' should. 'How much' continuously to be argued and legislated. Unfortunatly, too many of the big corps are managing to escape paying their fair share, leaving the burden to those who aren't connected or know what 'wheels to grease.'

Let's face it, we've become the Nation Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, For the Corporations.

How much more fair would it be if we could delegate how our tax dollars are allocated? I do NOT want to fund the war in Iraq (get the hell out of the Middle East altogether ASAP), paying for Abu Grabi, a lavish lifestyle for the top tier of the military, FISA, War on Drugs, etc.

I DO want my taxes spent on schools/education, healthcare for all, libraries, parks/environment, roads, police, firefighters, 911 - all the good things that coordinates the inhabitants of this country and makes everyone's life better - not just for those who are lining their pockets.

Maybe I should change my name to Pollyanna.

Blue Rose @ 34:

gene214 @ 31:

sam @ 12:

. . . . Stop all wars, especially the wars on 'terror' and 'drugs'. Those are both FAKE and are primarily to support the CIA and invisible government (who incidentally are the real terrorists and drug dealers).

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get rid of all government programs! Environmental protection? Who needs it! Safe food and water? Fuck that noise! Safety and health protections for workers? That's for pussies! Let's get rid of all of that and just put our trust in the "free market" because, God knows, those wonderful, altruistic human beings who run Big Business can certainly be trusted to regulate themselves. Fucking Libertarian bullshit. But what can we expect from people who don't even realize that Ayn Rand was writing a work of FICTION when she wrote "Atlas Shrugged".

Wow Gene, you certainly have a way with words. I love how your sarcasm drips. When are the 'elites' going to realize/accept that we are all in this together. Those who can pay more than the basic 'fair share' should. 'How much' continuously to be argued and legislated. Unfortunatly, too many of the big corps are managing to escape paying their fair share, leaving the burden to those who aren't connected or know what 'wheels to grease.'

Let's face it, we've become the Nation Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, For the Corporations.

How much more fair would it be if we could delegate how our tax dollars are allocated? I do NOT want to fund the war in Iraq (get the hell out of the Middle East altogether ASAP), paying for Abu Grabi, a lavish lifestyle for the top tier of the military, FISA, War on Drugs, etc.

I DO want my taxes spent on schools/education, healthcare for all, libraries, parks/environment, roads, police, firefighters, 911 - all the good things that coordinates the inhabitants of this country and makes everyone's life better - not just for those who are lining their pockets.

Maybe I should change my name to Pollyanna.

Blue Rose, the elites will NEVER admit that their plight is tied to that of us proles. Divide and conquer, that's always been their plan. Set up bullshit strawmen like gay marriage or flag burning, anything thing to keep the serfs distracted while THEY (the elites) continue to line their pockets. Quite frankly, I don't see how it's ever going to change when working Americans keep consistently voting against their own interests. I just don't get it. I'm with you with regards to how our tax money should be spent. Here's my prioritized list: HEALTH CARE FOR ALL, EDUCATION, CREATION OF INDUSTRIES DEDICATED TO CLEAN RENEWABLE ENERGY(sort of like a space program for energy independence). And don't change your name to pollyanna :-)

Thanks so much for this clip, I've been really hoping you'd post it. Thanks

sam @ 37:

You can have your precious programs, but LOCALLY. I can't believe how fuckin dense you guys are. The FEDERAL government and programs are the problem, because all they do is steal all our money, inflate our currency, limit our freedoms, and just to expand the wealth and power of multinational corporations and central banks.

Each State should be FREE to tax how they want, create programs that they want, and compete for citizens. And the federal government should just print money and protect our borders and rights.

The Elites are moving us to a ‘North American Union’, if that happens no more constitution, no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line). Wake up before it is too late. Europe is just realizing how they have been duped, and we are next.

What a tool. The major funding for a "smaller government movement" is from the multi-national corporations. Without federal and international programs to keep them in line, they are your de facto government - unelected, unregulated, and unaccountable. We already pay heavy duty taxes to Exxon at the pump, and our "privatized" system of health care is filled with taxes paid to insurance companies.

When you begin your second year of junior college, try some classes in economics (and typing - for some reason your capslock button keeps getting stuck).

sam @ 37:

You can have your precious programs, but LOCALLY. I can't believe how fuckin dense you guys are. The FEDERAL government and programs are the problem, because all they do is steal all our money, inflate our currency, limit our freedoms, and just to expand the wealth and power of multinational corporations and central banks.

Each State should be FREE to tax how they want, create programs that they want, and compete for citizens. And the federal government should just print money and protect our borders and rights.

The Elites are moving us to a 'North American Union', if that happens no more constitution, no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line). Wake up before it is too late. Europe is just realizing how they have been duped, and we are next.

You know, Sam, I never met a so called "Libertarian" who turned down a Social Security payment or Unemployment Compensation check. I've never met a Libertarian who after being fucked over by a hospital, contractor, insurance company , instead of making a beeline straight to the nearest lawyer's office, instead just shrugged his shoulders and chalked up such losses to being "the free market at work". You know why I've never met a Libertarian like that? Because they don't exist. Libertarians are full of shit; consequently, Sam, you're full of shit.

sam @ 37:

no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line).

As a Canadian I love hearing this lie parroted by panicky libertarians. Oh no! They're gonna take away your precious right to die in a gutter! How horrid for you! And even if there are wait times (and some times there are) it's never as horrid as the boogeyman bullshit you clowns paint it up to be. Bottom line, here's your choices: free-but-wait(maybe) VS pay-or-die. Hint: if you're not rich, #2 is a bad choice.

"Yeah, for a great example of a totally unregulated free market system look no further than the foreign private security industry in Iraq."

This has got to be one of the mosy ignorant things I`ve ever heard.

Are you sitting there telling me that a country in perpetual war, with so-called private companies being put there by government not the consumers, where there are no incentives to invest, where the market is nil, where there is no freedom of sovereignty....that it is somehow unregulated? If it were unregulated then why can`t I start up my own mercenary army and invade Iraq? If it were truly unregulated, I would be able to, no?

Are you for real?

sam @ 28:

This country will not survive another 4 years of more federal spending on wars or health care/environmental programs. Welfare and Warfare is destroying us, if you can't understand that then you deserve what you are creating/supporting.

The 19th century called, they wanted to let you know that the Wild West was a shithole, and that the robber barons lost. Maybe some day libertarians will get the memo that the "fuck you I got mine" doctrine is not sustainable.

Funny how conservatives tend to put their faith on either an invisible being up in the clouds or an invisible hand that takes care of the markets. Neither of which can empirically be proven and neither of which has a good track record regarding anything...

The irony of it all is that the libertarian system ended up in most of the country queuing on interminable bread lines, children working in mines, females living as second class citizens and minorities as third class citizens, with the average life span being less than 50yrs.. and to top it all, the libertarian utopia (or should I say clusterfuck) came down in one of the biggest economic depressions the world has ever seen. The liberal approach gave us the new deal, which rebuilt the country, and made it strong enough to fight 2 fronts in a world war *simultaneously* and allowed the foundation for one of the biggest economic expansions in world history, which culminated with this country having the life span of its citizens increased by over 2 decades (enough time to see your grand children grow) living in the most powerful and stable economy, and with some of our citizens dancing around the moon to celebrate it all.

So let me see, your approach ended up with an economic depression, ours with people walking on the moon and beating polio. One would assume that since libertarians have been wrong about just every issue that they would shut the fuck up some day. But noooooooo, since your clusterfuck turned out so great, you guys want to try it again. And from the looks of it, you have spent the better part of the past 6 decades trying to disassemble the new deal and trying to return to the economic disparities that were found in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

No wonder some of the dumbest most incompetent people (all of them sys admins, go figure) I have had the misfortune of working with were all libertarians: They seem to apply the same approach to all their aspects of life: "if it doesn't work and ends up in catastrophic consequences, try it again..." I had a sysadmin wiping out our whole backup (where part of my thesis data resided) 3 fucking times, doing the same shit. As in, "oh, if I do the same crap that deleted all the back ups this time the it won't be deleted." Fucking morons the lot of you.... too much faith in crap and not enough common sense (and lack of humanity too).

freeman @ 43:

Some people here I think have no idea how economics or personal well-being really works....

Perhaps that is because you go on to attempt a misguided "market" analysis. When looking at the American health care "system" you can't use "market" analysis (this is aside from your apparent inability to use basic market analysis in any context whatsoever).

In American health care the dominant player is Health Insurance. Insurance companies are immune from the Sherman Act and all other anti-trust regulation. They are legal monopolies with rampant cross-ownership, rate and payout fixing and the remainder of the standard list of monopolistic drawbacks. The result we see is one predicted in Micro-Economics 101 - reduced output at higher price.

I assume what you're attempting (poorly) to do is parrot some supply-sider nonsense you picked up. You might want to stop; supply side economics has been thoroughly discredited even when argued by those with an actual background in economics. Given what I just read, you will "never ever ever" be taken seriously - even in AllCaps.

Oct. 18th is a designated day to show your resistance or opposition to the current government and the policies and laws that they do or try to impose. This is your chance to send out a message to any member of congress or the senate let alone local representative that we can disagree with what is being passed or what has passed.

Let your voice be heard!

-PEACE TO EVERYONE
-FIGHT THE POWERS THAT TAKE YOUR POWERS AWAY!

-Peace

Dr. Who @ 51:

freeman @ 43:

If we REALLY are serious about helping the poor, we should increase the amount invested in the industry. The only to do this is to have an environment that is most welcoming to possible investors. Only a totally free system can guarantee this attractiveness.

... except that a totally free system is bogus. A free system would mean that the state does jack squat, which means that the industry gets to pay for the roads to get to the factory, the water system, the railroad to deliver the goods, etc, etc. There will be no investor willing to put down the $1billion that may be required to open a simple bicycle shop in Montana for example, if we were to take the actual footprint of the 1 time investment needed to get the ball rolling in a "free" system. Or try to get a large industrial project without any government subsidy for example.

In a "free" system we would not be able to afford the private construction of large bridges, or space exploration, or research in the cure for non-cost effective diseases. In a "free" system, you would end up with hospital killing patients by applying horse medicine as it would be far more cost effective to train a doctor to use a shotgun than to make it into a full blown surgeon. Humans have evolved socially quite a bit in the past 10000 yrs so you and your libertarian friends should get used to the fact that we are not back in the caves and the law of the jungle does no longer apply, talk about you guys having to deal with a new "paradigm" LOL.

To have a strong society you need both: a strong healthy economic base, and a strong and healthy (and happy) population. A society is like a plant, it needs 2 things: good soil, and sun/water. You idiots think that throwing copious amounts of manure will make up a drought. Good luck!

Why is it so hard for some of you guys to wrap your head around the concept that everybody does better, when EVERYBODY does better. It must be that being a selfish prick must mean that you are willing to take all shorts of shit if that means that none of your dollars get to be used to help another human being. Must feel good, eh?

Dr. Who, I've always felt that Libertarians had a very childlike, simplistic view of the world. Remember when you a child, and your parents encouraged you to share your toys? Well, Libertarians never learned to do that. With them it's "Why do I have to share? It's mine, mine, mine. I don't wanna share! I don't have to!" The notions of community, the greater good - these are all concepts which go way beyond their ability to comprehend. At least your average Conservative (at least the ones who aren't insane) understand the idea of a Social Contract and it's basis for a functioning society (Admittedly the Conservatives' view has become rather perverted, but you see my point). Libertarians have this dangerously naive view that the "free market" will regulate itself. They hold to this belief despite the vast amount of historical evidence to the contrary. As I had said in a post earlier this evening, these are people who are too stupid to realize that Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" is a work of FICTION.

Could someone please explain why this "person" has not been impeached yet?

I guess we have to wait until an intern sucks him off in the oval office before anything is done!

I expect stupidity and incompetence from Mr Bush. The fact the Democrats aren't "impeaching" him is the bigger disgrace!

Shame Dems Shame

sam @ 37:

You can have your precious programs, but LOCALLY. I can't believe how fuckin dense you guys are. The FEDERAL government and programs are the problem, because all they do is steal all our money, inflate our currency, limit our freedoms, and just to expand the wealth and power of multinational corporations and central banks.

Each State should be FREE to tax how they want, create programs that they want, and compete for citizens. And the federal government should just print money and protect our borders and rights.

The Elites are moving us to a 'North American Union', if that happens no more constitution, no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line). Wake up before it is too late. Europe is just realizing how they have been duped, and we are next.

Oh ya. Pure capitalism ideals worked out great! Why would anyone that has plenty of, say, beans, want to share them. Hell it would be far better to keep all the beans you can, and throw the rest out when they rot. You are calling the rest of us dense? YOU are dense and your greedy ideals are what the hell is wrong with this country. "sink or swim like me" is pure and utter bullshit. You rich? Well, good luck with that. Vote Ron Paul. Everyone knows that capitalism, pure and sweet, is the answer to all of America's problems. NOT.

sam @ 37:

You can have your precious programs, but LOCALLY. I can't believe how fuckin dense you guys are. The FEDERAL government and programs are the problem, because all they do is steal all our money, inflate our currency, limit our freedoms, and just to expand the wealth and power of multinational corporations and central banks.

Each State should be FREE to tax how they want, create programs that they want, and compete for citizens. And the federal government should just print money and protect our borders and rights.

The Elites are moving us to a 'North American Union', if that happens no more constitution, no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line). Wake up before it is too late. Europe is just realizing how they have been duped, and we are next.

So you want every state to have its own air traffic control system?

http://gettheflick.blogspot.com/
http://www.faafollies.com/
http://themainbang.typepad.com/
http://vanityfairmusings.blogspot.com/

Sam, you are truly a selfish moron. Lots of old people had to scrounge food from garbage cans before Social Security. Libertarianism has to be one of the worst ideologies. Take your Ayn Randism and shove it. Never will I vote for a stupid Libertarian.

Control the narrative: The GOP hates the poor.

They're shrink wrapping blocks of cash to give to this week's ally militias (the enemy of our enemy thing) in the Middle East, aren't worried it $10 billion goes missing here and there, and routinely ask for tens of billions in supplemental funding for the war, but help the (American) kids---- ARE YOU CRAZY; IT'S TOO BLOODY EXPENSIVE.

freeman @ 46:

"Yeah, for a great example of a totally unregulated free market system look no further than the foreign private security industry in Iraq."

This has got to be one of the mosy ignorant things I`ve ever heard.

Are you sitting there telling me that a country in perpetual war, with so-called private companies being put there by government not the consumers, where there are no incentives to invest, where the market is nil, where there is no freedom of sovereignty....that it is somehow unregulated? If it were unregulated then why can`t I start up my own mercenary army and invade Iraq? If it were truly unregulated, I would be able to, no?

Are you for real?

You are a class A moron if you believe that if you had the capital to create a mercenary group like Blackwater that you would not be allowed to go into Iraq, except that Blackwater has the no-bid contracts which is the ONLY thing that would keep another criminal organization from operating in a combat zone. And if you think that the Neo-Con idea of Savings plans for health care and social security is a sound solution...you clearly don't understand how a decent government runs it's economy. But I'm sure you'll school us!

sam @ 37:

You can have your precious programs, but LOCALLY. I can't believe how fuckin dense you guys are. The FEDERAL government and programs are the problem, because all they do is steal all our money, inflate our currency, limit our freedoms, and just to expand the wealth and power of multinational corporations and central banks.

Each State should be FREE to tax how they want, create programs that they want, and compete for citizens. And the federal government should just print money and protect our borders and rights.

The Elites are moving us to a 'North American Union', if that happens no more constitution, no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line). Wake up before it is too late. Europe is just realizing how they have been duped, and we are next.

Sam, I think I would be just fine living under a system like one the Canadians have. You're holding up this phantom fear of "Freedom" being removed but you don't seem to have a clue what you're defending. Honestly I don't know if you believe in your arguments or not.

In the case of health insurance the point you're tragically missing is that the risk pool of the entire nation is much more secure than the risk pool of, say, Wyoming. That's why most people want nationalized health insurance. That, and it's worked out very well for dozens of other industrialized nations. Pretty much every modernized economy except ours.

Before I responded to the Sam Troll, what I wanted to post was that Jon is right: when you're literally as skin-flinted as Montgomery Burns, you have crossed a line into sheer insanity. Bush's "explanation" of his veto to a live audience was pathetic and hilarious. I don't understand how he thinks people can take him seriously anymore.

And I think that the unspoken characterization of SCHIP as a "foot in the door" towards universal healthcare is accurate. It's a foot I intend to keep ramming through until the job is done. Because if we can insure our kids, we should be able to insure our PEOPLE. Simple humanity ought to take over at that point.

It would be nice to have health care for children, however I think charities, churches and other organizations (even local government) should do it NOT the Federal government. The Federal government has 2 jobs, print money and protect our civil liberties. EVERYTHING else thet try to do has a negative impact on our country. I wish you guys would realize that.

So, so utterly stupid.

And I think that the unspoken characterization of SCHIP as a “foot in the door” towards universal healthcare is accurate. It’s a foot I intend to keep ramming through until the job is done. Because if we can insure our kids, we should be able to insure our PEOPLE. Simple humanity ought to take over at that point.

Medicaid for all US citizens. That's the goal -- It can be accomplished in a day and then we can build from there.

sam @ 13:

It would be nice to have health care for children, however I think charities, churches and other organizations (even local government) should do it NOT the Federal government. The Federal government has 2 jobs, print money and protect our civil liberties. EVERYTHING else thet try to do has a negative impact on our country. I wish you guys would realize that.

You all know Ron Paul is by far the best candidate, really the only one who is what a president should be. Another Libertarian named Harry Browne had a simple message, would it be worth it to give up your favorite government program if you never had to pay income tax, property tax, gas tax and run your life and business without excessive government regulation and interference again?. *SNIP*

>> I know I'm late to the discussion -- but I just can't let moronic statements like this go by. There are so many people who take this "libertarian" idealism as gospel, when it has only ever been theory. We've tried Supply-side economics -- you know what? It Failed. Quickly. So Reagan had to pump cheap credit into the economy, and so we started this huge bubble of worthlessness and debt that is now on the verge of exploding since we have little beyond capturing countries like Iraq and Iran as collateral on our debt.

If these Ron Paul/Free Market idiots want to enjoy a country un-hindered by intrusive governments preventing the invisible hand of the free market from making a utopia, they need to move to Mexico to get a taste. Just a taste, mind you, because Mexico still has some infrastructure lavished on the poor, as they swarm the border trying to get to America for a decent job.

There is not enough time in the day to school these morons. Sorry to get personal -- but these fools are what enable things like NAFTA and the "Fair Tax." Business 101 geniuses who think they know everything.

sam @ 13:

"The Federal government has 2 jobs, print money and protect our civil liberties. EVERYTHING else thet try to do has a negative impact on our country. I wish you guys would realize that`"

Excuse me sam, but you are a complete embarrassment to whatever cause you think you are fighting for. You are saying one "legitimate" job of the government is to print money? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....go home and take your Freidmanite monetarist BS with you. Printing money is the very thing TRUE libertarians are trying to stop! It is THE source for virtually every single ill worth fighting for.

gene414:

"...throw the money at the multi-billion dollar Pharmaceutical and Healthcare industries so that they in turn can create all these really neato drugs and medical procedures"

No that`s not what I`m saying. See, you cannot get out of your Keynesian mentality where you assume that the only possible source of funds is government. It is not. Savings made by individuals will do just fine thank you very much. This one incorrect point you made completely demolishes your argument.

fiver:

"When looking at the American health care “system” you can’t use “market” analysis (this is aside from your apparent inability to use basic market analysis in any context whatsoever)."

But people like you are saying that the industry IS private, and that we need to socialize it, because somehow the market is making it bad. Now you`re saying I can`t use market analysis? Why not? Could it be that the industry is NOT truly private? Then libertarians are right. Buh bye.

"In American health care the dominant player is Health Insurance. Insurance companies are immune from the Sherman Act and all other anti-trust regulation."

Good for them. Anti-trust legislation is nothing but malicious envy anyway. As long as they do not break contractual agreements, then they should be fine. Don`t blame them if the government makes it law saying that fraud is legal. Blame the people who are making such idiotic laws.

"They are legal monopolies with rampant cross-ownership"

Yes, but monopolies cannot exist long term if the market were open to everyone. If they charge too high opf a price, then others would come in and cut into the high rate of profit. That`s how the market would work if it were left to do its job. But no, people cannot see this and only want to bring us back to the dark ages. Unfortunately they are succeeding, because the US government is spending way too much. Libertarians are the only ones saying we should stop this.

"I assume what you’re attempting (poorly) to do is parrot some supply-sider nonsense you picked up."

Sorry dude, you may "pick things up" offhand, which is the only reason you are accusing me of it. I don`t. I think long and hard. But this is about the poor kids not me. Think of them.

"You might want to stop; supply side economics has been thoroughly discredited even when argued by those with an actual background in economics."

By who? When? You can`t just say it`s been discredited and then not give any proof. You set up a straw man. By the way, Reagan`s policies failed because although he decreased taxes, which increases savings and investment, he DIDN`T decrease spending. Not decreasing spending along with taxes is the worst thing you can do. This error unfortunately makes people think supply side doesn`t work. It does.

Dr. Who

"… except that a totally free system is bogus."

That`s how the country was built and is the reason the US became the best country ever. But lots of people are trying to reverse this and make us like China or India by getting rid of all the precious free market principles the founders tried so desperately to make permanent. Thanks to people like you, our grandkids will live like paupers. Thanks a bunch there fella!

"A free system would mean that the state does jack squat"

No it doesn`t. It means the State acts in its proper sphere like protecting rights. It doesn`t mean fraud is legal.

freeman @ 79:

But people like you are saying that the industry IS private, and that we need to socialize it, because somehow the market is making it bad. Now you`re saying I can`t use market analysis? Why not? Could it be that the industry is NOT truly private? Then libertarians are right. Buh bye.

I want to understand how you're reaching this conclusion, because one person being wrong about an argument does not mean that YOU are right.

Healthcare does not belong in a market-controlled system because the market forces that are purported to control most transactions CANNOT control healthcare. People do not choose to get sick, and they do not have the knowledge to choose which treatment option works best for them. The entire free-market ideology is predicated on the ability to choose, and the ability to choose is predicated on the ability to understand the effectiveness of the various choices.

People instead make healthcare decisions out of fear -- fear of pain or fear of dying.

The main problem libertarians have with the idea of a free-market healthcare system -- and we're really talking about health insurance -- is that government-supported insurance programs are funding healthcare in virtually every other major industrialized nation at a fraction of the cost and with noticably better outcomes and quality of life than the United States.

Reality once again has a well-known liberal bias. So, buh-bye yourself.

freeman @ 79:

sam @ 13:
That`s how the country was built and is the reason the US became the best country ever.

Gee wiz, "best country ever?" I bet you haven't ever left the US of A. On a per capita earning basis, we are not the #1 On a combined industrial output the EU beats us, on an overall size of market, again the EU beats us. On a standard of living ranking, again we are not the #1. On a ranking of life expectancy, again not the #1. On a ranking of health care systems we are not even in the top 20. Education? Check the rankings and weep.

What we have is the world's largest military expending, the world's biggest rate of and overall debt, and one of the highest disparities between high and low incomes in the industrialized world (largest # of billionaires vs. largest number of homeless).

BTW, this country was founded on stolen land, with slaves, and by a bunch of wealthy white men who did not want to pay taxes.

Ironically this country was at the top under liberal (oooh, biiig eviiiil government!) programs. And it always sinks whenever deregulation or any of the other bullshit libertarian crap enters the picture. Over, and over again... your only goal in life seems to fuck it up for the rest of us.

But lots of people are trying to reverse this and make us like China or India by getting rid of all the precious free market principles the founders tried so desperately to make permanent. Thanks to people like you, our grandkids will live like paupers. Thanks a bunch there fella!

Ooooh, China and India. BTW, India is the worlds most populated democracy. But hey, I guess they are just foreigners, eh? And since you complain so much, guess what. China and India are what happens when you let the "invisible" market hand do its magic. So if anyone you should be blaming... you should be looking for him in the mirror.

"A free system would mean that the state does jack squat"

No it doesn`t. It means the State acts in its proper sphere like protecting rights. It doesn`t mean fraud is legal.

Tzzzzz, wrong. It just means that you have your vision of a state with no social contract that just does whatever you assume its "proper sphere" should being your feeble little mind. In any case your cognitive dissonance is deafening. So you want a small government that enforces whatever rules you want and that prints money. It is sad to see you parrot those libertarian points... aaaah, yes, money printed by the government will fix all our problems! Except that you don't understand what "printed money" is, it is an IOU, a small government can not back those bills... ergo you are somehow implying that you don't trust your government to provide services but you are willing to give all your wealth so you can carry around printed money.

*sigh* You seem to just have evolved from stepping down a tree and are about to discover fire. I will not hold my breath about anything you have to say really. Maybe you guys can join the rest of the human race once you manage this invention called the wheel.

sam @ 37:

You can have your precious programs, but LOCALLY. I can't believe how fuckin dense you guys are. The FEDERAL government and programs are the problem, because all they do is steal all our money, inflate our currency, limit our freedoms, and just to expand the wealth and power of multinational corporations and central banks.

Each State should be FREE to tax how they want, create programs that they want, and compete for citizens. And the federal government should just print money and protect our borders and rights.

The Elites are moving us to a 'North American Union', if that happens no more constitution, no more dollars, although you might get your precious Canadian health care system (hope you like waiting in line). Wake up before it is too late. Europe is just realizing how they have been duped, and we are next.

Too bad there isn't a national health service in the states because then you could get help for the delusion you have.

I love that shit about "ooh, you have to wait in line." As if you don't have to wait in HMOs. I live in the UK and the NHS has it's fair share of problems. But when my teeth hurt or I need a dentist, I call my dentist, get treated, and it costs me nothing. When I was pregnant, I had all of prenatal checkups, had my kid for free in a brand-new hospital, and had midwives check me at my house for 10 days after his birth, and a visit from the nurse for every year until he is 5. I pay a lot of tax, but I get a return on it.

See, since I was free from the stress of having to go back to work 6 weeks after my kid (the big nasty federal government here pays for 9 months maternity leave) was born and I didn't have to worry about how I was going to pay the medical bills, I was able to bond with him quite well. I also had full support for breastfeeding (they came to my house too!), I was able to give him an excellent start. Now, if everybody in the USA had these opportunities, maybe our kids would grow up to be happier and productive beings.

John Oliver was singing to the tune of Blue Monk at the end.

Neat, huh?

Dr. Who:

"Tzzzzz, wrong. It just means that you have your vision of a state with no social contract that just does whatever you assume its “proper sphere” should being your feeble little mind."

Um thanks...

"In any case your cognitive dissonance is deafening."

I don`t even think you know what this means. There is nothing in what I said that makes me feel dissonant to it. Please try to understand what things mean before you use them in a sentence. Grade 3 logic should work for you here. You know, I say a word, and you use it in a sentence.

"So you want a small government that enforces whatever rules you want and that prints money."

Dr. Who, I don`t want them to print money. You remind me of a broken record that replays incorrect statements.

"It is sad to see you parrot those libertarian points…"

Libertarian points are not points. They are tried and true principles that have very strong logic backing them up.

"Except that you don’t understand what “printed money” is, it is an IOU, a small government can not back those bills… ergo you are somehow implying that you don’t trust your government to provide services but you are willing to give all your wealth so you can carry around printed money."

I want government out of the creation of money. Or at least allow people to use whatever money they want. I mean, if you think printed money is so good, shouldn`t it stand up to any competition? PRINTED money is the root of many evils in this country.

I am saying that if we were to fix healthcare, we must "let go" of it and allow people to create it for themselves. More government is not going to make it better. They are the reason it sucks in the first place. We must let it go, let it evolve on its own, stop forcing the issue, and let the people decide. I will never think that you have the correct argument, because you have been proven wrong throughout history.

Wow! I finished reading all of your comments 2 hours ago, and was watching Old Dood's link to Zeitgeist which is almost a 2 hour production. Very, very informative, thanks, Old Dood for the education. I do think that the first 30 or so minutes were irrelevant as it related to Christianity. But the history lesson regarding the banking system, the "need" for war, the 9-11 inside job, and all were extremely well-done.

Regarding this current topic... As a smoker, would this new tax mean I am entitled to a tax break for having been taxed not once, not twice, not even three times, but taxed upon taxed upon taxed for my smokes? It just doesn't make any sense at all, and this is so disingenuous on the part of the government - they denounce smoking as unhealty, and tax it. So the government is raking in profits from smokers, and that puts the government in the position of enablers. The government doesn't WANT people to quit smoking. They just want to collect money because they have a captive audience!

And then they say, Well, we'll use the taxes for health care for people whose health has been affected by smoking? Uh.... who really has seen a dime's worth of care go to those who smoke? Really!! Now they wanted to use even MORE taxes on this habit to fund children's health care? Uh.. they can spew all the rhetoric they want, and I don't believe a word of it. The poor kids will never see a doctor, never receive a prescription for antibiotics, never get their temperature taken even if this bill had passed. The money would just go to line the pockets of the big-honchos somewhere, and the kids would again be forgotten.

The money that it would take to fund such a program is already being spent on blowing up a country half the way around the world. The money is being funneled into the pockets of Halliburton, Blackwater, and Big Oil. The money comes from the citizens, the kids' health care has been paid for thousands of times over, with the lifeblood of American soldiers needlessly killed in Iraq. But the poor kids will never see any benefit, because our government doesn't ... give ... a ... rat's ... ass ... about ... its ... own ... citizens!!!!!