Countdown: Rachel Maddow And The State Of Un-American Politics
It's been a really bad week for Republican lawmakers and their staffers. First, Sen. Mitch McConnell's staff gets caught attacking a 12 year old boy and then lying about it, then video surfaced of an unhinged Trent Wisecup, Chief of Staff for Michigan Republican Joe Knollenberg, going bats*it crazy on a political activist from MoveOn.
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On Tuesday's Countdown Keith Olbermann talks with Air America Radio talk show host, Rachel Maddow about Wisecup and how that apoplectic video sums up the state of politics in America and how the right still thinks they can get away with branding anyone who opposes them un-American for doing so. Maddow points out that as Republicans find themselves on the wrong side of all the big issues they are giving up on trying to compete on a political level and instead choose to use these kinds of vile, personal attacks. And we see how that's working out for them...
UPDATE: (Nicole) Cenk from the TYT interviewed blogger activist Bruce Fealk about the incident, and Trent apparently hasn't let up. He commented on one of Bruce's blogs:
Has all of this just been a dress rehearsal for a political consulting job? Who is going to hire you? Granholm? Skinner? Peters?
Inquiring minds want to know.
I've worked in politics at the highest levels for a long time ... I don't think being an effective stalker of congressmen's wives and female congressional staffers is a good marketing point. You might want to set your sights on another profession ... maybe dog fighting or cock fighting. You'd fit right in with those kind of people.
Read between the lines of the media coverage you so proudly post up to your site ... you protested Mrs. Knollenberg at her home.
In the part of America where I come from, men stand up to bullies like you and say enough is enough.
First!
Indict.
the hatred in that guys eyes..is something else....Un American?...oh yeah...we're supposed to get in line and say nothing....
In the part of America where I come from, men stand up to bullies like you and say enough is enough.
Same here. So forgive us Mr. Wisecup if we stand up to your bullying...
A little hint - PUBLIC officials are answerable to the PUBLIC, especially when in a PUBLIC place.
Denial and projection are the only tools the right can find right now, and they are using them... Wisecup is a perfect example.
must be the stupidest guy in this country...well, one of them
>must be the stupidest guy in this country…
Nah, too easy.
I swear, that guy seems drunk to me. Just saying wild things that have no basis in the conversation. There is something strange about him. Real strange.
A lot of these people on the right seem to now resort to childish behavior when confronted. Yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad.
Oh, now they are saying the prez will speak at 10:45 am. (eastern time)
pissed off patricia @ 7:
Any predictions about him stringing any real sentences together?
Toyota?
pissed off patricia @ 7:
Why does the White House continue to insist on promoting the time(s) that Chimpy the Wonder Monkey is going to butcher the English language ?
revko @ 9:
Yes, it is a small country in Ohio. They hate us, noone knows why.
... and doesnt Toyota make a car or two in the US?
Maybe after this he could get work at a car plant ... he is a complete tool.
It seemed kind of like seeing a spat on a playground devoid of adults. To quote the cop who arrested Larry Craig, "no wonder our country is screwed up."
A Toyota assembled in America or a Ford with more than 60%+ of its component parts made outside the USA. Take your pick.
He's a stupid rah-rah, this guy - really stupid. That said, if the videographer was harassing the congressman's wife at home, he deserved to get called out for it.
In the part of America where I come from, men stand up to bullies like you and say enough is enough.
With a name like "Trent Wisecup" , I'd say you're as close to being a 'man' as Queen Elizabeth is , buttercup ..........
Should anyone be surprised this guy accuses the person making the video of him ranting and raving is not a citizen....., thats how they view anyone not of their ilk [party], facists always see themselves as elite, gifted, priveledged, in society. Not surprising that is the dialogue one hears from them. If they had the power too do so, they would strip people of US born citizenship, right too vote, as one of their infamous hatemongers suggested Ann Coulter stated "women should be denied the vote", coming from a woman would think this strange but then their mentality is restrict the vote too those they deem elite, priviledged. Carlton Tucker suggested something similiar on his show, requiring a test too be able too vote! Anyone wonder why the republican party adopted the dixiecrat racists in 1960 eras who got angry over this very same issue, poll taxes, reading/writing requirements too vote, segregation, all hidden behind states rights, today the right wing a miniority 29% is going ballistic that they are loosing their power due too inability too sell their rhetoric hidden behind if you do not agree with us your unpatriotic, do not support the troops, want us to loose in Iraq, etc, etc, but it is getting old, tired and people who are not the die hard right wingers, registered life long republicans are awakening too the bill of goods they were sold in 2000/2004. One can see a mirror image of the republican party today and the Nazi party of Germany pre-world war II, they use intimidation, deception, fraud, smear tactics too win elections, then once they have power, use the offices of power too try and maintain that power, republicans are americas "facists", if you do not bow to them, they will try too make you bow with their tactics, but thank god america is neither majority republican [29%] nor majority democrat [30%], most people are independants [41%], both of the main parties work for these independant voters, and the right has lost them, and it is a good thing, since god forbid another 4 years of this republican rhetoric, we all might find ourselves in a era harkening back too the 1929 great depression era...which some are predicting anyway due too the economic raping of america by the elite rich 2% who the republicans really consider their base, that 27% that is left is merely their peons, servants, who just do not see their real positions in this party of the rich and elite.
Look, no one likes to be ambushed by a guy with a camera, but when you are an elected official you do owe the public an explaination regardless of the persons' party affilliation as to how you voted on an issue and why. The Problem with most of of these Ratpublican Bastards is that most of them don't even know why they are voting one way or another, they think their job is to stay in lockstep with the administration, not represent their community.
He (trent) was really trying to goad the old guy into fighting him! Trent wanted Bruce to puinch him so he could file assault charges, you can bet that if the camea wasn't there that the old guy would have been on the floor! Slimebag republican COS!
I guess it's wrong if you follow an elected official and ask him questions, 12 year old children on the other hand.......
Dollars to donuts this guy Smallcup has human body parts in his freezer.
There IS NO "WIN" in Iraq. Why was this guy talking so much about Iran? Does he know something we already know?
my neighbor once owned a dog that was obsessed with marking its territory.
it was a pro and it would mark everything and anything this guy had on his property using *vast* amounts of urine to stake its claims.
the dogs name was "senator joe".
wisecup reminds me of old joe.
The horseshit GOP ; the group that exemplifies those who are the least gifted , believing themselves to be the most ..........And what is it with these pudgy , moon-faced losers , believing themselves to be the creme-de la-creme of male virility and masculinity ?
I know Girl Scouts that could beat this Trent Wisecup douchebag up and down the street ..........
>Why was this guy talking so much about Iran? Does he know something we already know?
Nope, most likely just too dumb to know the difference ...
(Iran was resposible for 9/11 ....right? :)
D to the Izzle @ 22:
He wasn't. He was talking about EYE-ran. You know. The place where all the 9-11 turrrist come from?
Do a little checking on Wisecup - he's definitely a minor-leaguer.
>Dollars to donuts this guy Smallcup has human body parts in his freezer.
In his Mom's basement, next to his bedroom.
So Joe and Trent planned this in advance?
Looks like a Howard Dean moment to me.
I still hate these whiny, needling tactics.
I don't agree with dude going to the Senator's home and shit. It's one thing to show up at a politician's office or confront them when they're off doing the 'shake hands and kiss babies' thing. They're fair game. But it's off the board to start tracking them to their houses and bothering their families and shit.
That's the kind of shit that OReilly does and if it's wrong for him to do it then it is wrong for us to do it too.
All that being said, I think the proper response to mister Chief of Staff would be to say "No what is un-American is to sit around on my ass while American soldiers are dying for George W. Bush's ego because my Senator doesn't have the balls to do what is right.".
If Fealk is behaving inappropriately in his protests then he needs to knock it off. However this doesn't give this dickhead Wisecup to start acting like that. Even if what Tent says about Fealk wanting Toyota to beat GM is true, it has absolutely no relevance to the questions he was asking his representative. Next time I think Fealk needs to carry a taser and tell the fucker he feels threatened and if he doesn't back off, BZZZZZZZZZZZZT!
Besides, if GM wants to 'win', they'd stop making such shitty cars you need to take to the repair shop twice a week and use all that government subsidy they get to put a Green car on the road. The reason people buy toyotas is because they will run forever.
Mike @ 30:
Yeah, but they come with the job.
And it isn't fair. We get Bill O'Reilly and Michelle Malkin stalking our folks and all we have to counter with is Bruce Fealk?
MCMetal @ 16:
I was getting an Aeon Flux vibe off the name. What was the dudes name in there? Treavor GoodFellow or something?
Highest levels of government? Am I missing something here?
So Trent has MS and injured his hands in an attack last year?
Offensive or defensive wounds I wonder?
Damn, what a redneck.
Watch Cheney's Law on PBS.org. The fish has rotted from the head down.
Does it strike anyone in the administration that some of them are going to jail, or that their actions will make Hillary the most powerful President ever?
. @ 14:
Just to be clear. . . doesn't that mean Ford is assembled in America and Toyota makes it's component parts outside the US? I'm just sayin. . . . The real point is probably that there is not much difference. . . which makes that bonehead COS all the more absurd. Of course someone in Detroit DID sell the hybrid patent to Japan and then started cranking out massive SUV's. . . Not too bright there. . .
And so ends this most vile political party. Unfortunately, they will still lurk in the shadows, trying to cause trouble and turn neighbor against neighbor.
OK, yes, the Chief of Staff proves himself to be a bully, but the guy videotaping this is also a jerk. Going to the congressman's house and offering her ice-cream? And to his neighbors as well? That's pretty obnoxious. Right or wrong (and yes, the congressman is wrong), you don't harass his family; otherwise you're lowering yourself to Michelle Malkin's level (actually further as you're physically confronting the family). Sorry to say, I would kick someone's ass if I found out they were bothering my family like that.
Reich-wingers are not on the wrong side of just the big issues, but they are on the wrong side EVERY single issue. From flag burning, to the war, to global warming, to SCHIP, to spying, to social security, to _______ fill in the blank. Reich-wingers are simply wrong on every issue.
Does Wisecup think the 70+% of the soldiers who agree with the 70+% of Americans who are against the war are unAnmerican?
Wisecup lives in the wrong country and the wrong time. He was born too late to be able to live the life he wants in a culture suited to his innate predilections. He must be monumentally frustrated and angry because of that.
The guy with the camera was also being a d**k, and a rather slow one at that. Yes, the staffer is an idiot, but so is the douchebag from moveon. I guess you can't get good help anymore.
xoites defends Constitution @ 11:
More than likely hate us for our freedom
Sounds like another reason to attack Iran
Damn Toyotans
By the way, what does trent drive? A Lexus? A Mercedes? A BMW? Just curious.
As a former native of Michigan, I found both of those twits to be quite obnoxious and non-representative of the majority of people of the Great Lake State.
Dan Rather was attacked for exposing the truth about Bushs Non service Record. 60 min 11 was cancelled for reporting on Abu Girade. CIA employee Valari Plame outed for something her husband made public. The pattern is obvious, even a 10th grader could see how the rethugs are all about attacking opponents. I believe Mossalini was the rethugs hero.
Holyshit! I didn't realize that's the congressman's chief of staff! I thought it was the redneck owner of the store!
Geeezus!!
That's my favorite Toyota commercial.
All these connies just parrot the Hannity talking points. They blame the "librul mediuh" and claim everyone is "anti american" if they don't tow the Club For Growth and National Review line while GIs are away from their families for 450 days in a row and bridges collapse from Norquistian TABOR
Trent, baby, you & your gang have been bullies fr a long time, & it ends here. Can't take your your own medicine, can you?
I'd be interested in Mr. Wisecup's stance on Michelle Malkin's stalking of a 12 year old kid.
Wisecup honestly thinks he's working at the "highest levels of government"? That's just sad.
LibertyLover @ 52:
wide.
VERY wide.
DO YOU WANT THE TOYOTANS TO WIN? DO YOU??
I would like to know the details of the run up to this confrontation. It seems like this is the end of a 2 year effort that began as an outreach to the congressman and an attempt to set up a town hall type meeting about the war which the congressman refused to do. If this has been a matter of a politician blowing off a citizen for 2 years then it only seems proper that the citizens efforts would slowly ratchet up to this point. As for protesting a politician's home. . . that is a tough call. If it is a public street isn't it a public street? Don't people hang outside celebrity houses as a standard operating procedure? Don't news reporters regularly wait outside people's homes trying to get candid interviews? Why is there suddenly a line drawn in the sand when it comes to a citizen redressing their grievances with a politician?
As I said. . . I would need to know more details about the runup to this and exactly how the home visit was conducted before I'm ready to take this guy at his word that the congressman and these women have been stalked and harassed. Why is everyone else just taking the jackoff's word on this particular point when everything else out of his mouth is utter rubbish?
Martin @ 5:
He is the stupidest guy in the country for this week. There is a long waiting list.
Earl Scheib @ 43:
as you sit on youre ass and complain.
guess YOUR not that good help huh?
And why was he being a dick??
Because he had the nerve to approach one of our Rulers w/o bowing and kissing his pinky finger first??
As for harassing dudes wife, First it never happened and anyone who does the most rudimentary research online will find that out very quickly.
Secondly, I watched a clip of some Faux News political hacks saying that by putting Graeme Frost "out there" , that he was fair game.
So I guess when KnollenMurderer's wife answers the door for what they know is a politcal action group, well he shouldnt have put her "out there". Ya know, like a coward having his wife confront critics of his policies for him.
A Proxy. And all that was said to Mrs.KnollenMurderer was, "would you like some free Ice Cream?".
Then they left.
Plisko @ 55:
A quick google search reveals Trent Wisecup to be a pathological liar.
LibertyLover @ 52:
It is probably pretty wide.
CrazyEyes McTincup needs to grab a rifle and head over to Eyerak. Work out some of that aggression on a cowering carload of local evildoers.
As far as staking out a Senator's house, why the hell not? The bastards have invaded your houses with the phone taps and internet spying. How do you like them apples, Senator?
Notice how the rethug echo chamber is dropping the I-bomb ("Iran") every chance they get? It doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not, the goal is simply to shift Iran into the number one slot on the hate-targets list.
Plisko @ 55:
This is explained on the <a href="">Young Turks.
StirFry @ 56:
Maybe he could give Larry Craig a "reach around", since he has to stand in said "line" behind him anyways.
it will help them both relax.
I see the Bumper sticker now.....
Trent Wiseecup wants to give YOU a "Happy Ending", with some sort of faux "uncle sam type ad , except with Trent pointing, "I want you , to have a Happy Ending".
btw , how old is Trent??
Shouldnt he be in Iraq already? When do his enlistement papers get processed?
Maybe I should send some recruitment papers.
Again, Young Turks Interview.
Warren @ 58:
Its WAYYYYY diffrent when you are the OCCUPIED , opposed to the OCCUPIER.
I guess he should be grateful they havent cut power to his house and turned off the sewage service.
ya know , cause that would be a little more realistic. Just to give him an idea of what its like to be occupied.
Weaseldog @ 32:
It's even more unfair that we're stuck with a whole painful, IQ-free hour of @ucker Carlson (lowest-rated MSNBC primetime) while Rachel Maddow is only occasionally on Countdown. Where is this "liberal media" I keep hearing about from the reichwing?
Weaseldog @ 57:
And, he'll probably have to tap out his answer against your shoe...
FedUpFred @ 62:
resides ENTIRELY within their Imaginations.
either that or its the largest conspiracy theory in history, involving 100's of countries,1000's of news organizations and 10,000's of Employees.
my money is on their imaginations.
Weaseldog @ 61:
Thanks
I guess there is no way to get anything but each persons version but it is good to at least have this perspective.
I usually find myself in strong agreement with all of these posts, but going to the congressman's house and questioning his wife is over the line (or does anyone believe his admission that he was just there to hand out ice cream?). I'm not saying that the right-wing doesn't go over the line all the time, but that doesn't make it any less senseless and despicable. In this one particular circumstance I actually find the senator's chief of staff to have a far more defensible position as he seems to have been dealing with an actual stalker and the guy does sound like a bully. Whether it's O'Reilly or this Fealk guy, it's just not right and it adds nothing to the debate but fear of being confronted by random strangers at home over your opinions.
Earl Scheib @ 43:
Help me out here. If you've been trying to contact your representative for two years and he won't give you the time of day, you're a douchebag for showing up with a camera?
Lopsided equation there, if you ask me.
Earl Scheib @ 43:
Earl Scheib? Is that you? Do you still paint any car any color for $49.95?
Be careful this guy is as dangerous as I am. I recognize the 1000 yard stare. Not sure where he got it but I suspect he may have been through some rough times. Perhaps he has seen combat or has worked under the fold.
A very similar thing to the Wisecup incident happened to me when I was a Precinct Captain for MoveOn in the 2004 election, at the polling station on election day. My wingnut was a WWII vet and older, so we didn't press charges even though he threatened my children. Family values indeed.
Translation of comment:
It's only ok when WE do it.
Or:
I can't brain today I have teh dumb.
Plisko @ 64:
I agree. I still don't know exactly where my opinion should lie here, but I do feel personally insulted by Trent's words and tone.
I do not feel that the desire to expand the war into Iran is a proper acid test for patriotism.
wisecup went off his meds, right?
Blue Lensman @ 59:
Well, you know how it goes... if a lie is repeated often enough it becomes part of the perception of reality. It worked wonders for their granddaddy Goebbels, so it is no surprise that the grandkids are running with it...
Except that the look of confusion in their faces will be priceless when China and Russia strike back. You know, the problem with fabricating your own reality, is that sometimes the real reality has a way of bitting you back in the good old ass to remind you it is there. Just like Goebbels thought that if you can invade Poland, Russia should be the same walk in the park... the grand kids are about to make the same mistake.
I guess this sort of shit runs in the nazi family....
Toyota Camry: built in America
Ford Fusion: built in Mexico
Just sayin', Trent.
I realize that generalizations and stereotypes are not useful or really helpful but I have to say that anyone who thinks that sending an already over extended military into yet another [this is the third] war of aggression for no reason other than shrub co.'s profits is a good idea is completely insane and should probably spend time in a psychiatric facility.
Loonie @ 54:
Are Toyotans like Klingons?
LibertyLover @ 52:
Or the fact that they have set their sights on a one year old baby now.
At one point Olberman says that Knollenberg should call the police if he thought he was being threatened. Unfortunately, the police would probably have arrested Fealk and charged him with some bogus national security crime, like speaking your opinion in a public place, or protesting outside of some designated free speech zone.
In the part of America where I come from, men stand up to bullies like you and say enough is enough.
Well, no, that's not what he said. He said the bloggers wasn't a citizen and that he "wanted Toyota to win." In the part of America where I come from, weirdos get out of mental hospitals and say crap like that.
.
Okay, I couldn't comment to Wisecup over there, so I gotta do it here. He said:
You've crossed the line of decency.
Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Matt Drudge, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Debbie Schlussel, Glenn Beck, John Gibson, RedState.com, Little Green Fottballs, Pam Oshry... and the list goes on.
Don't you dare talk about decency when you associate with and endorse the views and opinions of these...people.
Trent Wisecup precisely represents today's typical rethuglican: young, know-it-all, mouthy, bully, hatred for anyone who disagrees, intolerance of The Bill of Rights.
Oh, gee, an old-fart senator merely waves away persistent questions about an occupation that has cost us trillions in dollars and lives. And we're supposed to lie down.
Words can't express my own intolerance and disgust of the vast majority of rethuglicans. Like I've said before, it's time to put this party down, as there is no cure for what ails it.
Plisko @ 64:
r u implying that what was said on YOungTurks was NOt accurate?
see, progressives have one advantage over Trent Wisecup types, its called FACTS.
which the right is always sorely lacking.
Lollimom @ 81:
Tell KnollenMurderer that personally........
Farmington Hills Office
30833 Northwestern Hwy
Suite 100
Farmington Hills, MI 48334
Phone: (248) 851-1366
Fax: (248) 851-0418
Washington Office
2349 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5802
Fax: (202) 226-2356
Toyota hates us for our freedom!
If Mr. Knollenberg were really and truly a good man, he would show Mr. Wisecup the door.
MargeAggedon @ 75:
World War III begins HERE.
Rusty Shackleford @ 74:
damn lib-ruuhls.
Dont they know us on the Right HATE pesky facts, we like to stick with innuendo and smear campaigns,
Weaseldog @ 71:
I am more insulted by Trent than anything else I have heard. Something I got from the Young Turks Interview was that the Ice Cream was part of an elaborate stunt to dress up an ice cream cart with "support the troops" signs and canvass the neighborhood asking people to participate in a town hall meeting with Joe to discuss the war. Also, Nancy Pelosi has liberal protesters outside her house and they have been there for quite a while. Is this over the line too?
Personally, I still feel that if a congressman or woman is ignoring and blowing off a citizens group requesting an open public dialog, the group has a right to ratchet up the pressure in other peaceful ways. What other option is there? They want you to go away. That is why they are either ignoring you or offering unacceptable options as a phony "compromise". Should we all just go away and let their stonewalling and manipulation be successful? Is it wrong to accept nothing but an open public meeting with your representative on important, life and death, issues? When do we have A RIGHT to start walking fine lines when they are being evasive? When does the congressman DESERVE to be harassed because there is no other way?
I'd like to hear answers from the people who are more concerned about the congressman's right to stonewall than the citizens right to a public dialog.
Dana @ 77:
No, that would be monstrous. It's a two-year-old baby.
While our democratic House Speaker Pelosi certainly hasn't bullied anyone ... yet, at a recent lunch discussion with Washington reporters, she mentioned "people sitting outside my home" in San Francisco.She commented: "If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering."
Here's what her comment brought to mind for me: Are these people participating in lawful citizen assemblies? Or are they breaking our laws outside her private residence? She did not make this distinction. Wearing an "Impeach Bush" t-shirt while on a public sidewalk is First Amendment. Trespassing onto what Pelosi described during this lunch discussion as "my sidewalk" and going into her garden on her private property is not First Amendment. That is trespassing, at the least, and possibly violates laws against vandalism and harassment.
She also mentioned her "neighbors' reaction to all this." Well ... are her neighbors angered by lawbreaking citizens infringing on their property rights? Or are they angered by public response to her high-profile job in the U.S. Congress? Once again, Pelosi did not make this important distinction.
In the end, her neighbors will recover from that inconvenience, if that's all it was, way before the world recovers from the disastrous Bush/Cheney policies, followed by our Congress' unwillingness and failure (led right now by Congresswoman Pelosi) to do what we voters gave them a mandate to do in the 2006 midterm election.
Rusty Shackleford @ 86:
Oh, that's 14 in dog years.
The guy needs to go to the back of the store and pick up his prescription from the druggist.
I don't think that Wisecup's remarks are particularly unhinged. I don't agree with what he said, but he was not screaming at the guy. He struck me as more frustrated because of the persistence of the MoveOn guy.
Linda @ 87, thanks for the distinction...
As far as Fealk possibly "stalking" the Congressman's wife, (and I apologize for not knowing this already or knowing where the answer might be), what I wondier is if Fealk intended to approach the Congressman's wife, or did he intend to confront the Congressman (and I'd think any citizen/reporter/quasi journalist trying to reach his Congressperson might make more of an effort if said Congressperson is evading answering questions) and happened to find his wife at home and tried to improv his way out of an awkward situation? Maybe it's a bad analogy, but it's like calling a friend's house, and before you realize it's not your friend on the phone you jokingly say "How's it going, dickwad?" Then you realize it's your friend's mom, she's sick and easily intimidated and you try to put her at ease and do a poor job of it. Socially retarded, may be, but not the same as trying to intimidate someone. I wonder if Fealk's situation is something similar, just not reaching his intended party so he tried to make some lemonade out of his lemons.
Absolutely NONE of this, of course, explains or excuses Wisecup's bullying or creepy n-im-prowd-2-b-n-amurcan rhetoric.
Tommykey @ 90:
I didn't know that Bruce Fealk was representing MoveOn.
I thought he was representing himself.,
Tommkey
"He struck me as more frustrated because of the persistence of the MoveOn guy."
That first amendment is just really annoying eh?
Loonie @ 54:
if i had a dollar for every time ive been asked that!
Tommykey @ 90:
They seem unhinged to me because I think that expanding the war into Iran is madness.
Your opinions may vary.
The point is that because Wisecup let his inner "rush" come out, his boss' congressional seat is in jeopardy. The gop frustration will only get worse as November 2008 approaches.
I find it distasteful that people go to houses too, etc. But you know what? The guy is a public representative. He works for us.
As part of that job, he is given incredible power.
He gets to push a little button and vote to send people off to die. He gets to vote on whether we kill thousands or millions of people. He, along with his colleagues, holds our fate in his hands - and not just our fate, but the fates of the people of the rest of the world.
If he is unwilling to listen to the people whose lives he effects, then they have the right, short of violence, short of breaking the law (and sometimes PAST breaking the law) to make sure he DOES hear them.
If the people who hold this power refuse to listen to us, are we supposed to just sit back and say "oh well..."
Fuck no. This is NOT about zoning laws, its not about whether or not the school, gets a new pool this year, these are matters of life and death... and if people having the temerity to hold strong opinions on these life and death issues and wanting to be heard makes this guy uncomfortable, he should resign and shut the fuck up.
Weaseldog @ 92:
That fact that the reich-winger flew off the handle with countless expected and knee-jerk reich-winger talking points was evidence of how unhinged these "people" are. Why does the reich-wing think Moveon rules everyone left of Mann Coulter?
I thought Michigan was ALREADY going down the tubes! After all, they've got the highest unemployment rate in the nation.
Grand Moff Texan @ 79:
They generally tend to say things like that to get themselves thrown in there , too ........
I don’t think that Wisecup’s remarks are particularly unhinged. I don’t agree with what he said, but he was not screaming at the guy.
Even in print, he looks like an idiot. Now that I've seen the tape, he's scared shitless. He's quivering from the outset.
Another fat white guy who can't handle pressure: exactly the Republican we want America to see.
.
The deadness in the guy's eyes is amazing. However, one point that does bother me: I'm against demonstrating at somebody's home, even if they're a Congressman or public official. The wife and children didn't get elected. We can't complain about right-wing bloggers publishing SCHIP families' addresses and so on, and do this kind of stuff. The congressman, sure. Go in front of his office. But I think homes should be out of order. It cheapens the cause.
The staffer and his tactic and retorts are in fact attempting to escalate "Speech and descent" into physical recourse.
It looks as though the staffer is on an edge to where he becomes physical. That is were it goes after "threats".
The staffer is using his elected legislatures power to thwart the people that vote in the legislatures district. IF Knollingburg doesn't like the heat or questions then he does like the job. They go together.
I agree that protesting or disagreeing doesn't make you un-American, but I'm against showing up at people's homes or following them during their daily routine to confront them or their families. Protest at their office, send them letters at their office, call them at their office, but don't harass them outside of their job.
Didn't this site complain about O'Reilly's producers doing the same to people who didn't want to give him the time of day or right-wing bloggers harassing the SCHIP families. You're no better than the people you claim are unhinged if you resort to these tactics.
EGaal @ 113:
Did you watch the Young Turk's interview? It doesn't sound like he was stalking.
LibertyLover @ 82:
And would Static Guard Anti-Static Spray work on the latter?
EGaal @ 113:
Here's an idea: A politician who votes for an illegal, immoral invasion and occupation of another country - and votes against health care for sick kids - should explain himself.
And surely you know there's a difference between elected officials and "the SCHIP families."
Just tried to get to the Congressman's page and my system locked up. Poor Joe....
"In the part of America where I come from, men stand up to bullies like you and say enough is enough."
But a man wasn't available, so Trent Wisecup did it instead.
.
Joe Knollenberg prjects too much.
To him and the Good(?) Representative, good Americans know their place.
The Germans in the late 30's believed the same thing...
... Don't-cha know?
.
Martin @ 5:
Oh no there are hundreds of millions, he is just representative of the county as a whole.
puh-lease tell me someone has this tools number??
ill trade ya............
http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=...
the most recent number is the one to use, havent had any luck gettin through yet though.
lol
I could be wrong, but didn`t Wisecup ask"D
Patriot Scholar @ 91:
exactly what I asked him to do, so for the sake of his constituents that his office be able to move forward after such a poor showing of professionalism.
or lack there-of.
I went to the congressional website to write an email to Congressman Knollenberg where I stumbled on this eloquent missive already posted. The only thing he didn't cover was how he could hire someone so stupid to voice this opinion in public and on camera even if he did privately believe it. Dolt indeed. Take a couple of minutes to read it. It will make you feel better...
Btw, thanks "concerned voter". You made my day.
To:
Rep. Joseph Knollenberg
October 15, 2007
Mr. Knollenberg,
I am a concerned voter who has voted for conservative republican, democrat, and independent politicians for several posts from council-persons to President of the United States. I am also a Gulf War veteran who supports our military and the practical use of such. I have recently viewed a video on the internet in which your spitting, maundering pit bull Chief of Staff, Trent Wisecup, attacks another man's right to free speech while the man attempted to ask you for some accountability. There are several aspects to this video that I'll highlight below. Since your CoS stated that he speaks for you, my comments and questions are directed to you, Mr. Knollenberg.
I understand that it must be frustrating to be hounded by your constituents for answers. However, please realize that your base has placed you into office, but you represent your entire district. If you were properly and faithfully executing the oath of your office, you would address the man's questions. Perhaps the situation would not have come to an uncomfortable confrontation if you had respectfully and honestly provided some accountability. Remember, you work for the people, and we'll put up with only so much before we fire you, and your retarded CoS.
As for your irate, unstable, stammering half-wit of a CoS, I'd like to address a few of his comments.
Wisecup: "You're anti-American."
What does it mean to be an American? Is it blind servitude to a federal government who's power our founding fathers strove to balance? Is it exercising the very rights that the Constitution declares, only if it agrees with your viewpoints? Is it the willing apathy of our representatives to vote along party lines regardless of the issue? Is it vitriolic attack against another American's rights? Is it the sacrifice our troops for war profiteering, power, and pride?
Wisecup: "You want Toyota to beat GM."
So what? Isn't this a free market? If GM can't compete, that's the way of the market. If GM makes defective, over-priced, inferior products compared to other more nimble, better managed manufacturers, shouldn't they lose? Yes, GM suffers from legacy pension costs. Again, so what? If GM ineptly negotiated unfavorable deals with labor unions, that's their fault. Unfortunately, workers will inevitably suffer due to GM's incompetent management of operational, logistical, organizational, financial, and human resource processes. So what? Free market. Are you a free market republican, or do you just play one one tv? According to various reports, Toyota directly employs over 38,000 employees; has created over 386,000 jobs in the U.S.; has spent over $26 billion in supplies and parts in North America; and has given over $300 million in philanthropic donations in the U.S. What's anti-American about that? Doesn't this epitomize a global free market? Incidentally, GM employs thousands of workers around the world and manufactures vehicles in over 30 countries, including communist China. Do you fault GM for this? Is that anti-American?
Wisecup: "You want American soldiers to lose."
First, define win and lose in this war's context. Can you define either or have you simply regurgitated administration speaking points? It wasn't the troops' policy that led us to war, or the troops' mismanagement of the post-"mission accomplished" phase. A win, if one can be defined, should certainly be credited to the resolve of our military, despite the countless and preposterous management missteps by the white house, DOS and DOD leadership. To equate the desire of those who want a peaceful and immediate end to this war with desire for failure is imbecilic. Are you an imbecile? If not, will you please explain how anyone's desire to remove our troops from harm's way is anti-American or an indication of one's disdain for our troops? Is success defined only by pro-war profiteers, mongers and propagandists? Is Americanism defined only by those with power? Are you suggesting that the overwhelming majority of Americans who are now against this war want our troops to lose? The argument can be made that the minority of Americans who still support this war are anti-American. Majority rules, does it not? Does this mean that you, sir, are anti-American?
Wisecup: "You're a political hack!"
First, shouldn't that be a good thing nowadays? To hack the political process and create something better than this inept Congress and disastrous administration have perpetuated is a good thing, no? If you meant this as a derogatory slant, don't you find it ironic that the head secretary of a Congressional Representative is calling anyone a political hack?
In summary, your disdain for the American people and your inability to effectively provide accountability for your actions are about as American as Mao Zedong. You're deputy, Trent "Hua Guofeng" Wisecup, is the very worse kind of American; one who tramples on the rights of others while exercising his own. If you want to redeem yourself as a man of the people, please start by providing some accountability and answer for your deeds. Oh yeah, and you should fire your useless CoS who poorly represented you on camera and made you look like a bigger dolt than you probably are.
Thank you for your time, and have a pleasant evening.
- Concerned Voter
Troy , MI
I’ve worked in politics at the highest levels for a long time
Yeah it showed in the video. Your lifeless eyes revealed much.
I thought I heard Wisecup ask,"Do you want Iran to win?" Does he know something we don`t? Check it out at 1:55 into the clip. What kind of a name is Wisecup? Spell check says I`m spelling it wrong.
I listened to the clip from 1:53 thru 1:59 several times and he does ask if Bruce wants Iran to win. I was not aware that we were at war with Iran.WTF?
sully18 @ 126:
I guess you're a terrorist if you don't understand the question.
"In the part of America where I come from, men stand up to bullies like you and say enough is enough."
Actually, it's the real Americans who are finally standing up to right wing bullies like yourself, asshole.
kulshan @ 88:
I'm not saying it's inaccurate. I'm just saying that a person's own version of events is usually not going to admit even the slightest negative role that they may have played. I appreciate that he is sort of second guessing himself about the ice cream thing. That certainly plays in his favor as someone trying to be honest.
So it's un-American to hold your elected officials responsible for their votes, but it's American to practice federally sanctioned discrimmination against gays? It's un-American to protest? What country does this fool think he is living within?
bob @ 19:
Not true,the part about if the camera was not there the old guy would have been on the floor.I had an altercation in a grocery store line with a young rethug who did not like my IMPEACH BUSH,CHENEY tee shirt.I`m in my 60s,have a bad back,and didn`t back down from this guy.I even laughed at him when he gave me the finger.He told me he was going to wait for me outside.I told him I`d be there as soon as I paid.When I went out,he was gone.I was really pissed that he threatened me, and even if I would have been the one on the ground,he`d have been hurting.I`m sick if these bully creeps pushing their bag on me.I`m only non-violent to a point.
But thinking about it later,I realized that someone could have been hurt badly.I will not do that again.I won`t back down from an argument,but a physical fight is not an answer.It brings me down to their level.
Plisko @ 129:
I can relate to this view. I don't know Bruce Fealk. I don't know if the allegations against him are true or false. If his recounting of the story is true, then the alleged stalking was only one visit, while he was campaigning in the area for a town hall meeting. He was warned away in a letter from the local PD and didn't go back. This isn't stalking. Stalking is not visiting someone one time, and never going back.
I have heard Trent Wisecup testify on his and Joe's beliefs, in his own words. His own words damn him.
Now if Trent can produce a police report or a video of Bruce behaving badly, that would bolster his allegations.
MN USA @ 13:
Unfortunately, men soliciting sex in airport bathrooms is the least of our country's problems.
I'd like to ask again for answers to these questions from the people who are so concerned that the poor congressman was being harassed:
1) Is it wrong to request, and accept nothing but, an open public meeting with your representative on important, life and death, issues? Issues people in the district are dying over?
2) If a congressman or woman is ignoring and blowing off a citizen or a citizens group requesting an open public dialog, does the group have the right to ratchet up the pressure in other peaceful ways?
3) When do we have A RIGHT to start walking fine lines when politicians are being evasive?
4) When does the congressman DESERVE to be confronted aggressively because there is no other way to reach them or to demonstrate the contempt they are showing?
sully18 @ 131:
no doubt, that bully would have gotten KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT!
and i havent hit anyone since I was 14 yrs old.
but guess what, last time i did hit someone, it was in defense of a "nerd-y " friend who wouldnt stand up for himself.
So that bully got straightened out on who he should pick on.
Trent needs to be straightened out on some things also.
Weaseldog @ 127:
It`s not that I do not understand the question,I don`t understand why the question.Maybe he was asking about soccor.
Charles @ 133:
Actually, it isn't small. The fact that a certain group of people feel they have to go to great lengths to hide their sexuality because GLBT people's civil rights are abrogated (and this society views 'teh gay' as bad)-DOES make it a major problem.
Sure, if there was a true Civil Rights equality, some men would still try to cop off in public places-but hell straight couples get their freak on that way too.
sully18 @ 136:
I thought they might win an advantageous trade agreement with China.
He makes a slur against those who enjoy dog and cock fighting?
This man obviously does not understand his voter demographic.
I guess I would have felt differently if this questioning occurred at his office not at some drugstore where the Congressman was shopping. I also didn't realize or may be it was not made clear that they've pursued other avenues of getting in touch with their representative and were denied. The CoS and his statements about Iran and being anti-American are just absurd.
I was simply trying to decide what you guys think the difference between the confrontation of JetBlue's CEO by one of O'Reilly producers and this is? Is it ok just because he is an elected official? Does he give up his right to privacy when he become elected?
What if this was a democratic Congressman and the questioner was a pro-life protester who wanted to confront his elected official about his stance on abortion and Roe v Wade. Would we not be outraged that they staged this confrontation in the congressman's private life? That they have gone to his house? Etc.? Would you guys be ok with that? Or is it only ok when we agree with the protester or the questioner?
EGaal @ 139:
I don't think he just shopping.
EGaal @ 140:
I can't speak for everyone, but as elected official he should be held accountable. No, he doesn't give up all privacy. But then, Fealk wasn't barging in on his son's wedding. The setting wasn't that private.
EGaal @ 140:
Shopping!!! You think these people actually do their own shopping!!!??? With their chief of staff their whole entourage and photographers following them? This was a staged event. Fair game.
EGaal please answer my questions at 134 if you have time. I'd be interested to know what your take on them is.
Also. . HUGE difference between a citizen confronting an elected official and a reporter/blogger confronting a CEO. HUGE. Please refer to the first amendment. Nancy Pelosi has protesters outside her house regularly from what I hear. This is what is needed to pressure these people into changing.
These people count on the opposition being polite and non disruptive. That's how they get away with being corrupt while looking like good statesmen. They have a perfected system for being corrupt without challenge. . as long as everyone behaves themselves.
Sometimes you need to break and egg before you can see if it is rotten or not. At times being aggressive and confrontational is the only way to get past their well groomed shells. It is a perfectly legitemate and useful strategy under the right circumstances.
EGaal @ 140:
1. "Private"? Oh, please. A "shopping" trip with Chief of Staff in tow ain't all that private.
2. Watch the Young Turks interview. Fealk's story of the visit to the house is different from what you seem to think.
3. Agree or disagree with Fealk's tactics. What about the thuggish remarks from Wisecup, saying Fealk's "anti-American" and pro-Toyota (whatever that means), etc.? That's what this post was and is about.
It is incredibly refreshing to watch these Republicans who are on the wrong side of pretty much everything help speed their party toward implosion. And the COS, like their president, is just another playground bully that is resolved toward anger because they know that have heard their own death rattle. He needs to lose all that baby fat if he wants to be truly intimidating. Probably could have used a few years in the military to work some of that off. But I'm sure that he feels that he is supporting the U.S. in an even greater capacity as the COS for Knollenberg rather than waste his time fighting for his freedom in Iraq.
Was that done? I guess I need to watch more YouTube videos. How come the questioner didn't ask him why he turned down the invitation to a public town hall meeting? He basically rattled off 2 unrelated questions about when he was going to vote to end the war and why he didn't vote for children's healthcare? It didn't seem like he was waiting for answers or offering an invitation to a public meeting.
Sure, I'd emphasize the blowing off part and how much they've tried other ways first. Did they send him a letter first requesting a town hall meeting? Did they call his office? Was the last resort showing up at his house and then following him into some drugstore? And remember, it will be fair game for the other side as well. I'll expect a lot of liberal politicians to have to attend conservative town hall meetings about guns, pro-life issues, basically things they disagree with or have advocates for those issues follow them around and ask them questions.
In an ideal world, politicians on both sides would actually debate ideas with the citizens they represent and we might not be so dissatisfied and disillusioned with the job they're doing. However, as long as both side keep only to people they agree with and simply shout slogans at each other, most likely nothing will change. I guess watching just the initial video I didn't get a sense that this was a citizen requesting open dialog, just a guy looking to get something embarrassing on tape to show people who already agreed with him. It just reminded me of what I'd expect to see from O'Reilly and the likes. And again, this doesn't justify the guy threatening the questioner or accusing him of being anti-American. It just cheapened the argument for me.
See above.
I think your four questions are more like one with perhaps escalating emphasis. I get you think all other measures have been exhausted and it's time to get up in their face about what we think they're wrong about because people are dying. I didn't get the sense that all other measures have been exhausted yet and thus view confrontations like this with more distaste. I guess because if I were elected I'm sure I'd make decisions that people would disagree with whether it was choosing which wars to fight, whether I'd allow stem cell research or not, whether I'd relax gun control laws or not, etc. I certainly would feel uncomfortable and perhaps even threatened if a person who let's say disagreed with my vote on stem cell research, got in my face about my votes and feel justified because they think I'm a murderer.
I'd probably wouldn't have felt this way if the video was asking the congressman about why he's turned out repeated offers to open debates on the topic if such things were made.
So by extension, it's un-American to be a politician and to work for one, and further, politics itself is un-American, which seems to be the ultimate point ... Big Business and the marketplace run the country, no need for government. The young congressional aide is actually projecting his fear of losing his job.
"You're anti-American"
"You want American soldiers to lose"
"Do you want Iran to win?" -Trent Wisecup 2007
Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on
a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of
it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in
Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering 1946
At least we know where rethugs like Trent get inspiration for their talking points...
http://theprogressivepost.blogspot.com/2007/10/republic-isnt-over-until-...
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