Karl Rove and Max Cleland to debate
By bluegal Tuesday Oct 16, 2007 5:39pm
Political Wire via TPM :
GOP strategist Karl Rove and former Sen. Max Cleland (D-GA) will debate the topic "Should America Bring Democracy to the World?" at Pat Robertson's Regent University on October 26. Rove will be joined by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) and on Cleland will team up with retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffery. Charlie Rose will moderate.
It'll be interesting to see if Cleland asks the question directly of Rove that so many people have asked since his 2002 loss: "Sir, were you behind those ads tying a veteran who sacrificed three limbs for his country to a terrorist mass murder of thousands of Americans?"
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First!
How is he able to do this together with this lowlife?
Personally, I'd need a Silkwood-type shower after being in the same room as that pig Rove, so good luck Sen Cleland.
I bet he does not ask that , , , I'd LOVE 2 B wrong
I mean it's pure class to debate the man who destroyed you politically with one of the vilest campaigns in this country's history. But I just wouldn't be able to do it if I was Max Cleland.
Of course, Rove will continue to deny having anything to do with that hateful ad.
I think it's a mistake for Cleland to participate in a debate at Regent. That's hostile territory. No matter how good he is, the crowd will treat him terribly and treat Rove like a hero.
Bonkers @ 3:
Will Cleland ask Rove how it feels to be the most loated American? Or how "the math" worked out for KKKarl last year?
I thought this turd was flushed. Quick, somebody grab the plunger!
I would like Cleland to ask Rove "What war did you serve in Turdy?"
Rove joined by Jeb Bush? Interesting because yesterday Snakehead Carville put a feeler out that Jeb B. might enter the race. The Bush faction want him in the worst way, at least to continue covering up the crimes of his brother, and he's someone the Fundies and right-wing Catholics would jump on in an instant. The name Bush has such a skunk smell at this point, though, they don't know how to work him in.
Rove is going to lie, make up bogus statistics, paint Cleland as "soft on terror," and whine.
And then the actual debate will start.
Go get the BASTARDS, Max!....I would be there with ya if I could....the old Irish hillbilly you met at the Legion Hall In Meridian, Idaho, before the last midterms....
I've "been with ya" for years in the spirit of battles gone by, but there just ain't no way to drag this old wreck of a carcass back there now.
CAGE MATCH!!
I'll take Cleland over Rove and McCaffery over Bush any day.
WHY does anyone continue this theater?
Oh yeah, must be the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
You do notice how the topic for the debate is carefully chosen to avoid any "risky" areas of the Bush reign.
Ovid @ 6:
Yeah, the venue for this has got to be the worst in the world for Cleland to debate in... unless if Liberty University or Bob Jones University were on the same list.
Bonkers @ 3:
I think I would need one just by going on to Regent's campus.
Archae @ 10:
And karl will interrupt him and change the subject, I doubt this will be interesting at all.
Bad Day At Black Rock 1955
Spencer Tracy as John J. Macreedy (Cleland) v Ernest Borgnine, as Coley Trimble (one of the villains).
Best fight on film. EVAH
Actually It's a totally excellent film-could even be read as a parable for our times.
Notice, everyone, how the right controls the debate. Look at the question. "Should America Bring Democracy to the World?" is about as loaded and right slanted as can be. To argue against Rove, you must argue against democracy. Does anyone else hear "Why do you hate freedom?" inherent in this question. Let's switch the modal verb, shall we? "Can America Bring Democracy to the World?" Or, better yet, lets call a spade a spade: "Should America continue on its course of post-colonial domination?" Of course, a right winger would never get involved in such a question because, jeez, if you question American history or American foreign policy, you are an un-American. Cleland, someone I respect, shouldn't get involved in this debate because all they are going to do is point out how the "far-left" doesn't believe in democracy. Sean Hannity, I imagine, has a major woodie over this one. Look for Fox News to flog this dead horse for at least one 24 hour cycle.
Maybe we should regain our own democracy before we bring it to the rest of the world.
BTW, will David Gregory be doing any background singing/dancing during the event?
zionist mainstream media tool of the elite charlie rose as moderator?????
why not have dobson moderate???
Teacher Joshua @ 18:
Excellent, reasoned, and well thought out post setting a new standard on C&L. I bow.
Max could kick Karl's ass with one arm tied behind.... umm, with one arm.
I pray that Cleland asks that question of KKKarl. Just to see KKKarl piss in his own pants.
my question is- what are bush and mccaffery going to disagree on?
Teacher Joshua @ 18:
This is what I meant but Joshua said it better.
But again, why would Cleland partake of this? I would not.
It's been said that when Bill Clinton would walk into a room full of Pols he would always go talk to the Republicans in the room, just to pick their tiny minds. Some say that's what made him so successful in politics. Know you enemy. The better you know him the more likely you can defeat him. While I'm sure Max knows all he needs to know about Rove, I applaud him for this. But I'm with most everyone else here, I couldn't stomach it.
WTF? After what Rove did to Cleland, Cleland validates Rove AND that wacko-lawyer mill Regent by debating there? WTF?!
Rove is a coward and I can't imagine this debate actually taking place, but if it does there is no way that asshole would fess up to any of his crimes.
BennyP @ 22:
That was a left handed compliment
“Should America Bring Democracy to the World?”
"Should America Bring Democracy to America?"
Teacher Joshua said exactly what I first thought when I read the subject of the debate...
Gee, Regent University...sounds like a quality event.
Yea... It WOULD be interesting.. IF... Somehow I just don't think former Sen. Cleland is going to be asking that question... I just don't think Ol Pats bigass university for religious bigoted morons would allow that kind of thing with one of their own luv chillens in da house....KKKarl is undoubtedly safe and protected in advance from any kinds of questions like that... As to whether or not America should be spreading democracy... anywhere at this point... Well, if Iraq is any indication the answer is no...
But really it's all in the context of who and how... Bush's version at the end of a gun and bullshit intimidation don't work.... a more nuanced approach would let our nature and behavior and success in the world speak for itself and work for the ideals of democracy.. Ohh wait.. Yea.. Bush screwed the pooch on that approach too.... I guess the answer for the time being is just no.......JD
Barry McCaffrey would seem to be an odd choice as a partner for Clelland, considering that McCaffrey is against the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from that quagmire in Iraq. A better choice would have been former retired General William Odom, who recognizes that the U.S. has no business attempting to bring "democracy" to another country at the point of a gun.
Errol;
The more I look at the names being thrown about here, the more this smells like a setup of Cleland to be the punching bag at a rightwing rant fest... I'll pass on this shit.. Max would be wise to skip it too, much as I'd like to see Rove put in his place..Much as I'm sure Cleland could do that in a fair debate....This ain't going to be that.................JD
Referring to the monstrosity that the west has exported to the rest of the world as "democracy" is certainly quite a stretch.
With the debate framed thus: "Should America bring democracy to the rest of the world" Sen. Cleland
has already lost. And I like Sen. Cleland. This will be like arguing against apple pie. It's a false premise. Period.
...
miss_kitty @ 30:
Indeed
Erroll @ 34:
I can see Odom walking over to Rove's podium, grabbing him by the nose, and poking him in the eye. Since Bill has a great grasp of combined-arms operations, he could then go on to kick Karl in the ass.
"Pat Robertson’s Regent University" There's a crock right there.
There you have it - This is Jeb's coming out party. Karl Rove isn't wasting time.
Well my comment (formerly at No. 2) got nuked and will have to go on my Yuletide / allegedly anti-Xmas wish list. Also, I may not have been nuked but lost in the browser / spambot / serf-time continuum.
(It involved a random thought of hauling back a certain podular body part, impelling it forward in a firm, brisk manner and making painful contact with certain round, huevos-shaped dangly things, provided they have actually descended from Rove's pelvis into his nutsack.)
I'm okay with it: the mere thought was satisfying enough.
Pat Robertson’s Regent University holds zero creditability in the scheme of life. Why have the debate at all?
This is a joke, right? Why would Max Cleland deign to be in the same ROOM as that slimeball?
Teacher Joshua @ 18:
How about: Is invading and occupying other countries while propping up corrupt dictatorships around the world an effective US strategy for bringing democracy to the world?
Really I don't think I could stand to look at that pig Rove.
Now THIS will be an interesting discussion. Hope it's carried live on NPR!!!
Honest George @ 41:
Damn! This was my theory about where Rove was headed when he resigned. I was just starting to breathe a little easier and thought it wasn't going to happen. Rove just can't quit the Bushes and the upcoming wedding will be the perfect family photo op.
Also, Rove's picture on this item--please, my eyes were just starting to heal.
Rove is coaching Jeb for the Presidency as he did his brother. Carville called it because he knows. Magdelin told him. The MSM want Hillary as the candidate because when the shit comes down next year it will be a split vote again. They can smear Hillary at the end with the Lewinsky shit, throw in a "terrawrist" scare, disenfranchise a few voters, rig some states, confuse the voters with voting locations, hold back machines in dem precincts, touch up some machines at the end and voila! A 50/50 slpit because a GOP win at 11:45 pm when the machines go down and suddenly coming up more closely matching the polls. Just like the last 2 elections. It's called electioneering 101. We should be used to it by now. We've taken it up the ass so much.Hell we've even exported it to Mexico. Hence their new preznit. The DNC doesn't care if Hillary wins because when big business wins they win just the same. America is fucked as is the world with the way things are a the moment. The first thing any self respecting dem would do is GET RID OF THE FUCKING VOTING MACHINES AND PROVIDE A NORMAL BALLOT WITH NO EXTRA SHIT ON IT! Fucking idiots.
this is a set up.....but if Max can turn it around....he can come out on top...it all depends on the rules of the debate.Which surely will slant to KKKarl and his minions.So..that being said...if Max decides to go for it....he must have a good plan.Otherwise forget it....perhaps a two part debate is called for...one there...and one in ...say.....San Fransico.....yeah,yeah....that's the ticket.
Blue Buddha @ 38:
Max can have fun pointing out how Jeb Bush "brought Democracy" to Florida by purging the voting rolls of registered voters that might oppose him. The key will be to define "democracy" as "the will of the citizens of each respective country" and not that of a few rich white guys who want to put a puppet in power to facilitate resource theft.
What the hell is there to debate? One's a draft dodgin coward and the other is a true patriot.
GOP strategist Karl Rove ? How about GOP flunky.
Cleland teaming with McCaffery? Wow. This will be interesting.
"Should Dumberikkka bring Blackwater Inc. to the world?"
"Sir, were you behind those ads tying a veteran who sacrificed three limbs for his country to a terrorist mass murder of thousands of Americans?”"
Can we please stop with this phony idea that McClelland lost his limbs on the battlefield? I mean, seriously, he himself wrote in his own autobiography that he picked up a grenade while drinking beer and hanging out during downtime. Of course, he served in Vietnam and deserves credit and respect for that. But that doesn't give him the right to cast wrong votes on important legislation regarding terrorism.
but will max be tazered?
I agree with the others who note the attachment of Poppy's real son, Jeb to Rove, clearly setting the stage for a 2012 cleanup run. I think it's too late this year and the stench of their currently empowered retarded family member is still too acrid in the nostrils of the electorate for even the most fervent koolaid drinker to stomach.
That said, if Jeb does run in 2012 the Mayan cosmic ctrl-alt-del set for 2012 will become MUCH more believable... :(
Rove is an evil SOB.
I'm not sure if Max can take him down especially not at Pat Robertson’s Regent University.
Max will wipe the floor with turd blossom
My guess is that Max & Barry will ask at some time what outfit Karl & Jeb served with.
Its a good thrust that Max uses.
Re: service, the old "where the hell were you"?
Mac. 3 Words. KICK HIS ASS!
Rove either has some hefty hubris or he's been assured that the format will be fixed but good at Pat Robertson U. If I were Cleland I'd open with, "What's the topic again, "Should America bring democracy back to America after Karl Rove"?
I can think of a better question for Cleland to ask. "How did you rig the election so that I went from leading in the polls all along to supposedly losing on Election Day?"
I hope Cleland has the awareness to answer "yes, America should bring democracy to the world." He should then explain that we should do it the old fashioned way, the only sane and effective way, by leading by example and exhortation and not by bombing and bullets.
The only thing Max needs to do is call Rove a liar whenever he lies, distorts, decieves or whatever and then dissect the lie. Name Rove's game as Rove attempts to play it. Rove has squandered any crediility to discuss the issue, being that he has been an architect and champion of all measure to destroy democracy in this country. Clealand should flat out laugh in Rove's face, maybe even spit in it.
I'm for spreading Democracy, including the respect for liberty, freedom and human rights, by truly practicing democracy at home. The example would speak for itself across the world. Too bad that the people who are so noisy about spreading democracy around the world are doing everything in their considerable power to crush it at home. It goes without saying that the droolers at Regent "University" will never notice the irony and the disconnect.
What a ridiculous topic. This is simply the media perpetuating yet another lie: that anyone in the current administration, or any neo-con anywhere (or neo-liberal for that matter) ever actually had the intention of 'bringing democracy to the world,' no more than the World finance institutions (WTO, IMF, et. al.) are attempting to alleviate poverty - all of this of course was always a smokescreen for global rape.
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