How a Bill Shouldn't Become a Law
By Steve Benen Wednesday Oct 17, 2007 8:18amAfter weeks of wrangling, positioning, and debate, the Congress is ready to vote on the RESTORE Act, a measure to improve the FISA law that corrects some of the mistakes of a similar bill from August. So far, it's been a bit of a disaster.
In the House, childish GOP games forced Dems to pull the bill from the floor.
And in the Senate, leaders struck a deal with the White House to allow telecom immunity.
It's painful to watch this unfold, isn't it?
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How about a bill that hold politicians to the same standard they would hold any other citizen to? How about a bill that says if you lie us into a war (or already lied us into a war) you are held as a criminal? We should not be giving in to this criminal administration and the congress and senate should be pointing out what obstructionists the repug's are.
I'll remember this shit when you bloggers are telling me how important it is to vote for Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton, just like you told us all how important it was to vote for Democrats in the house and Senate.
They gave away habeas corpus, they gave away the forth ammendment, WTF good are they, exactly? This just isn't really any better than the Republicans. A police state with a smiley face is still a police state, and free healthcare for a tiny portion of the population isn't fucking good enough. These people just aren't really the lesser of two evils, and I don't believe that they are magically being 'rolled' again. They clearly want this bill to pass with immunity for telecoms, and they're engaging in kabuki to try and con progressives into believing they are serious about the issues we care about. Fuck that ,and Fuck them. The next time bloggers scream 'more and better Democrats', we're all going to know that they are as pathetic and corrupt as the leaders they shill for.
I need a laugh...tell me again how our 'savior dems' were going to end the war, protect our privacy, and hold bush accountable? Instead, they've extended the war, sold our privacy and held bush's...well, I'll say 'hand.'
Welcome to the United States of BizarroWorld.
KUCINICH/FEINGOLD '08
War is over, if you want it...
Not to mention that the DLC Democrats engage in the fine art of introducing and pushing forth bad legislation and then think they're absolved of all responsibility when they go on the record voting against said legislation.
The real bad act is in introducing and pushing forth bad legislation in the first place. Anyone can cast a vote, but they hope that the American public is too naive or stupid to catch on to this trick.
Case in point: Nancy Pelosi. That last Iraq war authorization bill had her paw-prints all over it, but she can return to San Francisco and tell her constituents with a straight face that she didn't vote for the bill, while she conveniently leaves out the fact that she co-wrote and introduced that legislation on the floor of the House along with McConnell, Blunt and the rest of the ReThug Leadership. And Harry Reid, Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emmanuel all co-signed on the deal, but they're on the record as not voting for it.
The proof is in the pudding. This is what Americans need to be aware of when they go into the voting booths next November, because the current leadership is very confident you won't connect the dots. That's why they willfully ignore the fact that they have an 89% disapproval rating; why they won't move to bring the troops home, and why they are comfortable in allowing Bush to walk all over them.
I guess Rove was right after all...they retained control of congress....
from Glenn Greenwald
It would be absolute, sweeping amnesty for all individuals and entities, in government and in the private sector, who broke the intelligence and surveillance laws after 9/11. Neither Vladimir Putin nor Hugo Chavez have amnesty power of that sort. But that's what the administration and Mike McConnell are demanding, and it's what, at least as it pertains to telecoms, wonderful ex-Clinton officials such as the "highly regarded" Jamie Gorelick are working to bring about.
....It is not, obviously, a revelation, but this practice of government officials leaving and then being paid to use their contacts to shape legislation on behalf of corporate clients is the sleaziest practice there is in Washington. Can't Jamie Gorelick find a way to earn a living without engaging in the lowest form of legalized influence-peddling on behalf of law-breaking telecoms which now want a bill which would almost certainly, in effect if not explicitly, also bar any accountability for Bush officials who broke the law when eavesdropping on Americans? (And it is worth remembering here that Qwest, unlike Gorelick's client, followed the law and refused to comply with the administration's demands to allow spying on its customers without warrants, even in the face of threats that they would lose government contracts).
It is hard to count the number of high Clinton officials who, like Gorelick, have spent the last six years getting rich selling their contacts and influence by working on behalf of lobbying and other clients to pursue legislation directly at odds with the political beliefs they pretended to have and will, once they are back in power, pretend again to have. Gorelick, needless to say, is an enthusiastic contributor to the Hillary Clinton campaign (as well as to Joe Lieberman's). She'll undoubtedly be a leading candidate for Attorney General in the next Clinton administration (perhaps serving along with Clinton supporter and "foreign policy expert" Michael O'Hanlon). Telecom lobbyist Donilon is also a maxed-out Clinton contributor.
It is hard to overstate how much of a priority FISA immunity is for the Bush White House, and for obvious reasons. Ironically, they were actually proposing the same sweeping retroactive immunity language back in September of 2006 when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress, but they could not get the Congress to pass FISA legislation. With the Democrats in control of Congress, and Democratic Beltway influence-peddlers like Gorelick working with them, their chances of obtaining such legislation are now plainly enhanced, and according to both Risen and Isikoff/Hosenball, they are likely to obtain some form of retroactive immunity now that Democrats control Congress. There are reasons -- good reasons -- why the current Congress is more popular among Republicans than Democrats.
The idea of granting blanket retroactive amnesty for private companies and high government officials who repeatedly broke the law in how they spied on Americans is the stuff of tin-pot third-world dictatorships. It is so corrupt and reprehensible that it ought to be beyond the ken of what could even be considered. But with an indescribably (and increasingly) accommodating Democratic Congress, along with Democratic power brokers like Gorelick working in tandem with telecoms and their Republican lobbyists to bring about such legislation, its passage -- as both the NYT and Newsweek are reporting -- is close to guaranteed.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/22/telecom_immunity/index...
The Constitution is but a nuisance to congress, the important thing is the Pelosi led congress will do whatever it takes to keeping its majority on the hill and appeasing beltway pundits rather than serving the best interests of America.
Republicans rule, even when they're in the minority. This is really tragic.
I'm angry and upset with a strong sense of political hopelessness.
That's just what I was thinking, hanshiro. Dems may have the majority in Congress but the Repubs still have the power. This is possible because too many Americans wallow in ignorance.
hanshiro @ 5:
Yup.
Meet the new boss... same as the old boss.
The Dem leadership need to explain why it is necessary for the Telecoms to gain immunity, just saying the White House wants it, is not good enough. They are busy trying to consolidate power while most people are disgusted of their behavior and is talking about not voting in '08. If they loose in '08 they would have given even more power to a Republican president.
hanshiro @ 5:
They being "the good shepherds". Our representatives are afraid for their political/physical lives. Until we rid ourselves of the "secret government", then fear will continue to rule . . . and that's what the terrorists want . . . isn't it?
"The terrorists are not you you think they are"
Addendum to #7. Regardless of Democrats capitulating we'll still be left with only one choice when It's time to vote the Republicans offer NO alternative and in fact are shameless.
Alecia @ 11:
The telecoms probably have recordings of the dems booking their favorite hookers or setting up deals with their brother in law's lobbying firm. Why do you think they were running this program before 9/11? This is all about leverage over people.
Think Clarence Thomas might have a few skeletons in the closet. Chips you might pull out if say your candidate needed a supreme court ruling to become president so you could carry out your plan to move into the middle east and control the oil aka control the world.
Rent "The Pelican Brief"
I hope there is some rationale that we aren't aware of yet. I just don't want to feel they caved due to pressure from the fear factor. If they did this because they think to not do it would make them look weak on defending us from the boogie man, that means they are totally out of touch with 75% of America.
It seems at times that everyone in the govt is about two to three years behind in thinking and realizing what the hell is going on. All except Russ Feingold who is so far ahead of the rest of them that he leaves them in his dust.
Alecia @ 11:
Don't expect an explanation. Key Dems (i.e. Rockefeller) were handsomely paid off by the telecoms for their capitulation. This is base corruption, plain and simple. The People (and their silly lawsuits) be damned!
Buh-bye, Fourth Amendment, it was nice knowin' ya.
Cowards and traitors.
it's not that painful if you realized before that the dems were going to cave. it's not rocket science people. if it comes down to us or their big money corporate interets, we lose every time. i just don't understand why that's not universally known yet.
quit trying to change these professional politicians. just write down thier name and when election comes, REMOVE THEM.
Retroactive immunity means never having to say you're sorry.
Ugh.
Bow before your corporate masters:
This is what you can expect in NA as well.
Right on the money.
I think I've come to hate the Democrats more than the Republicans.
The Republicans are like that slow cousin of yours that left school at 16 and works at Jiffy Lube. You expect him to say stupid things, do stupid things, and drink lots of beer to blur the fact that he is a slob and a hypocite.
The Democrats are like your smart cousin who dreamed of being president, talked about social justice, went to law school, but then joined the big, ugly law firm and started defending corporate polluters. You ask him how he can sleep at night and he answers "they pay me".
3 hanshiro
KUCINICH/FEINGOLD ‘08
War is over, if you want it…
Now that is a bumper sticker.
m @ 18:
make sure the vote is counted and then remove them . . . that is our only recourse . . . we may throw a few babies out with the bath water but the message will be loud and clear.
HKH @ 22:
As my grand father used to tell me, "A conservative is a liberal who has acquired property".
Anyone know what the acronym for RESTORE is? It's bound to be something patently ridiculous like USA PATRIOT.
Phuck the DLC, DSCC, DCCC.
Where's the 50-state initiative?
Shadowgm @ 26:
Responsible Surveillance That is Overseen, Reviewed and Effective
Actually, save for the telecom immunity (which seems unforgivable), it was a pretty good bill that corrects a lot of the mistakes of the FISA bill that they passed a couple months ago.
Thaat's why Congress's approval rating is near 10%. The voters got tired of the right-wing waste and arrogance. They expected the new congress to clean up the mess. Instead they've rubber stamped want Bushbaby wants anyway
Even the Weimar Republic was more efficient than Democrats have been in this legislative session.
E Ryno @ 25:
AMEN!
Hopefully the House Dems will not cave to the telecom immunity.
imho, This is a MUCH bigger threat in today's NYT:
IT GETS WORSE! Now they can spread the lies in many venues!!!
Plan Would Ease F.C.C. Restriction on Media Owners
By STEPHEN LABATON
The plan would relax decades-old media ownership rules, including repealing a rule that forbids a company to own both a newspaper and a television station in the same city.
justabill @ 32:
pissed off patricia @ 15:
And then there was Uncle Gladstone who used to say, "Hope is not a plan".
justabill @ 33:
great minds think alike!
How about a little kinda good news? CNN just reported that Brownback will drop out of the presidential race tomorrow or Sat. I know he wasn't a major contender but he is one of the ones who said he didn't believe in evolution. I guess his campaign wasn't evolving. :)
E Ryno @ 35:
It's a hell of a lot better than doom and gloom and trashing the most productive Congress in US history despite the Republicans blocking 3 times more bills than ever before including the 8 times the GOP has blocked Democrats efforts to end the war.
justabill @ 38:
I haven't trashed them . . . I suggested that they are human beings and that they are afraid of the security apparatus that makes envelopes of anthrax show up at their offices when they oppose the patriot act.
They get us arguing about the wrong things . . . the real problem are the terrorists who all went to the same Yale fraternity.
Here's How To Handle A Telecom:
Taking a Whack Against Comcast
Mona Shaw Reached Her Breaking Point, Then for Her Hammer
The insulting idea that, as Shaw puts it, "they thought just because we're old enough to get Social Security that we lack both brains and backbone."
So, after stewing over it all weekend, on the following Monday, she went downstairs, got Don's claw hammer and said: "C'mon, honey, we're going to Comcast."
Did you try to stop her, Mr. Shaw?
"Oh no, no," he says.
...Hammer time: Shaw storms in the company's office. BAM! She whacks the keyboard of the customer service rep. BAM! Down goes the monitor. BAM! She totals the telephone. People scatter, scream, cops show up and what does she do? POW! A parting shot to the phone!
...Her take on Comcast: "What a bunch of sub-moronic imbeciles."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/17/AR200710...
Can we do this to congress?
Yeah, and then there will be a bit of a filibuster.
Utterly worthless, these Democrats are.
Er, not filibuster, veto. If it even passes.
E Ryno @ 39:
Then I do apologize for seeming to single you out, and I couldn't agree with you more about our homegrown terrorists.
The hyperbolic trashing of the Dems runs rampant these days, and much of it is entirely misplaced. Not to say there aren't a LOT of legitimate reasons to criticize the Dems, as this caving to the telecoms certainly shows. I do seriously doubt the telecom immunity part will pass the House version though, so it might mean nada.
I'm disgusted. I'm one of those who have been saying that any democrat is better than any republican. I still believe that ... but you know what? I give up. Fuck em all. What a dumb fucking country.
As far as the comment:
That's 100% correct. If America really wants the war to be over, then that's exactly who will be the next president. Myself? It's about way more than just the war. It's about every single thing this administration has done since they unboxed their shit in January of 2001.
And for the record: I was never naive enough to suggest that democrats would end the war. I knew that wasn't going to happen. What I hoped for was an end to the rubber stamp ... well, we can all see how that's ending up.
Fuck that town. Until a few million of us storm the Bastille, it will continue ... let us eat cake. I wish an epidemic of deadly bird flu would wipe out the entire elected power structure in DC. The people certainly won't clean that cess pool out.
Fuck you, Pelosi. Fuck you, Reid. You both disgust me. Fuck you, Bush. Fuck you, Cheney. Fuck all the rest of you neo-con facist assholes that are too many to mention. You disgust me too ... and terrify me. Good luck getting rich off of the next war. Enjoy your weekend on the yacht. And in case I forgot to mention ... fuck off and die.
Painful to watch??? I've gotta agree with hanshiro. I am absolutely disheartened by the spinelessness of the democratic party. Are the republicans really right about them? They won't even fight back where they have a majority in congress and majority support in the country so what can we expect on the world stage? I've never bought the b.s. line that the democrats are weak on national security but I'm beginning to wonder if they are just plain weak, weak weak. Sigh.... I've been a registered democrat my entire adult life. But at this point, maybe leaving the party is the kick in the ass they need.
How DARE they exempt the telecoms?!? If that was a private citizen doing something like that they'd end up in prison forever. If these corporations demand to be treated like persons, they deserved to be punished like persons. You can't have it both ways.
These POS shit corporatist clowns! they no longer have any sense of proportion or duty or acoountability.
It is obvious that government is no longer responsive to the Sovereign Will of the People. It is clear that the US government no longer serves the People. It is clear that our government no longer serves anything but itself.
Short-term, I'm voting anit-incumbant. Lont term, I'm getting out. America is dead.
"The telecoms probably have recordings of the dems booking their favorite hookers or setting up deals with their brother in law’s lobbying firm. Why do you think they were running this program before 9/11? This is all about leverage over people."
You are almost certainly correct. The first thing you do with this kind of power is go after the politicians and the corporate board-rooms. He who controls the information controls the universe.
there is no need for this legislation. let the August fiasco expire and the old FISA comes back. W has already stated he's ignored it in the past and will ignore it in the future. Impeachment is off the table, but screwing the pooch even more than has already been done should be off the table as well, at least until someone else inhabits the White House. Come on, people, this is not rocket science. Just say No to voting on anything you don't want to vote on and then DON'T BRING IT TO THE FLOOR. Real simple
The Republicans have no heart. The Democrats have no testicles.
Complete and total dysfunction.
I'm so frustrated at this. The grassroots work so hard and their concerns just get ignored
PurplePatriot @ 44:
Don't hold back PP, tell us how you really feel. ;-)
Believe me, I share your sentiments... For so many reasons I've lost count.
I was a Democrat for sixty years but no more. the Democrats give Bush everything he wants. Democrats and Republican are the same they talk big but due nothing.
This time Bush administration got immunity for the telephone carries
Yesterday Leahy and Spector were on CNN and both said they wouldn't vote for immunity. They both asked how could you vote in good conscience to grant immunity when you weren't even sure what they did. They were right. How can you say "I don't know what crime you commited but you're absolved anyway?" That bush threatened these people with phrases like "Millions will die" and "protect the country from terrorist" and "partriotic" is no excuse for their actions. They knew what the law was and is.
Email a Senator asking for a filibuster.
You can use text such as:
-------------------------------
Please filibuster the FISA bill.
Phone companies should not be given retroactive immunity from lawsuits.
Accountability, not immunity.
-------------------------------
There's really not much the Democrats can do as long as Congress still embraces that damned "60% Majority rule. I still can't figure out where that abomination came from, but I have a pretty good idea.
I like how Tyrant the Decider bashes Congress in his
temper tantrumpress conference for not getting any good bills to his desk for him to sign when it's his own damned party that is deliberately and shamelessly obstructing any work the Democrats try to do.SteamRanger @ 55:
The democrats can impeach. i don't care if it isn't politically expedient, as nancy says. Even if it fails, it will be covered and it will put the notion in everyone's head that something isn't right.
Bush didn't just threaten them with "terrorists" or "millions of dollars," but he threatened WORLD WAR III if he didn't get what he wanted. WWIII wasn't a threat to Iran, it was a threat to Congress, that he would start a war with Iran if they didn't give him what he wanted.
This is it for our country, rule of law is over. This precedent ends not only democracy (there is no way we, as citizens, can effectively privately communicate with each other. We must assume from now on that our every communication is being logged as they will want to know when we are considering trying to stop their dictatorship) but also rule of law. We aren't a free country anymore.
It was a fgood run, folks, but it's over now.
Three telecommunications companies have declined to tell Congress anything meaningful(citing White House objections).
The White House says it can use executive privilege to prevent former employees from testifying before Congress.
Now, the White House says it can use the state secrets privilege to prevent corporations from testifying before Congress.(An argument used in the Courts , not before Congress)
And this is who deserves full immunity ?
Anyone , be they Dem or Rep. , that votes to allow this miscarriage of justice and direct violation of our beloved Constitution to slide through , should be slapped by every American man , woman and child and thrown into Guantanamo as the traitor to the United States of America that they obviously are...........
Fuck the Pussy Dems. Fuck them all.
They've lost me for good. I hope the Republicans get back in office because of this. Maybe if we let the Rethugs destroy what little this country has left we can start all over again.
Fuck Pelosi. Fuck Reid.
And if Feingold or Dodd or -especially- Obama don't put a hold on this bill past the time the original bill expires so they can destroy this balantly unconstitutional affront to this nation, then fuck them,too. Especially Obama, who is proving himself to be one bigass pussy, since he seems to think skipping a controversial vote makes it easier for him to deny doing anyting wrong on the campaign trail. Yeah, fuck you too, Barack. But it looks like he may not be the only one related to Bush and Cheney. At least it seems like all the Dems are acting like those two traitorous mother-fuckers. And if AT&T is tracking my email and phone calls THEN FUCK YOU TOO, GEORGE AND DICK! YOU TWO FUCKNUTS DON'T EVEN DESERVE IMPEACHMENT - YOU DESERVE IMMEDIATE INCARCERATION!!! AND FUCK AT&T, TOO! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR GODDAMNED SERVICE AGREEMENT SAYS, YOU CONGLOMERATE C*NTS! FUCK YOU TOO!!!
So rather then "Restore" anything the Senate bill further degrades the original FISA laws AND further screws the people of America. How impressive.
F*ckin' idiot Dems. Here is a simple amendment the Dems could have immediately tacked onto the RESTORE bill and totally nullified the stupidity of the Republican amendment: No part of this bill or its amendments shall be construed to legalize warrantless eavesdropping on the communications of American citizens.
There. Fixed. Vote on the bill. But no, the Dems get all invertebrate and totally flustered and fall on the floor like fainting goats. Idiots.
Democrats - the party that collective begs "please, just don't get it in my eye."
If they didn't do anything wrong, why do they need immunity?
Can MY Senators, Obama and Durbin answer that one for me?
*
I have been telling every Democrat that has been calling me for money that my purse is closed until they start showing a spine!
Tell me again how I "threw my vote away" by not voting Dem?
Tell me one more time.
I want to hear it again.
About my "caucus of zero"
About how voting my conscience was wrong.
Tell me.
Tell me again, you DNC fuckerpants.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Fascism.
.
Message from the Senate
RE: FISA
It's O.K. to break FISA Laws as long as you're doing it to help the president.
Q U E S T I O N:
What good is having a law that reigns in a president from becoming a tyrant of his own people when Congress begins to declare immunity from that very law, to the very people who help the president achieve a pinnacle of tyranny in America?
.
The Democratic Party is boar tit useless except as a butt partner to big money.
Bin Laden doesn't need to attack America again. The GOP is already doing a good enough job with their childishness.
Captain Obvious @ 64:
That's the way to do it!!!! They understand money.
Is it really that painful to see the Democrats actually trying to work in a bipartisan way? Look at all the corruption and lack of progress the Republicans had when they refused to reach common ground with "the other side". I don't want the party I love to end up the same way. Most of us have to work with people we don't care for, but we still manage to get the job done. If you talk to reasonable conservatives, you'll find they agree on a lot of the issues, they just take a different approach as to how to solve them. Most people believe that we should have the best healthcare, that no one is pro-abortion, we should be fiscally responsible, the list goes on. Partisanship is ruining this country from both sides of the aisle. As much as I'd like to this president and administration ridden out on a rail, it's not going to happen. History will judge them harshly and a great many of them will be disgraced as the years go on. Until then, I can just hope that people will learn to sit down and hammer out their differences in a constructive way. Kind of like the Framers did.
"After weeks of wrangling, positioning, and debate, the Congress is ready to vote on the RESTORE Act, a measure to improve the FISA law that corrects some of the mistakes of a similar bill from August."
No, Steve, the last-minute six-month extension was NOT a similar bill, NOR WAS IT BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR BY THE DEMS. Our extension bill was defeated before the bill that passed, the minority bill, went through.
The new FISA RESTORE Act is a major upgrade, not a minority six-month stunt. It is the bill that was NOT ready in August. But to suggest, as you do, that the August bill is somehow on the continuum with FISA RESTORE, or that this bill is to correct that, is simply to have a bad grasp of the history.
That six-month minority extension's only real purpose was to give leftists something to bash the Dem leadership with over the summer. Mission Accomplished.
JasonS @ 65:
JasonS, if I'm not mistaken, you live in a Republican district with all Republican representatives. So what are you on about? Your votes won't count either way until you can actually ELECT someone.
That has nothing to do with you being a "DNC fuckerpants."
Praedor Atrebates @ 61: "No part of this bill or its amendments shall be construed to legalize warrantless eavesdropping on the communications of American citizens."
That has always been in the FISA bill.
"2. Requires an Individualized Court Warrant from the FISA Court When Targeting Persons in the United States. (Same as current law.)" -- FISA RESTORE summary
You might be interested in this comparison between FISA RESTORE and the PAA Act rammed through by the minority in August:
http://judiciary.house.gov/Media/PDFS/RESTOREvPAA.pdf
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