Giuliani's "Values" Include Defending And Hiring An Accused Molester
I wonder how Sean Hannity and Chris Matthews will rationalize this...
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Presidential candidate Rudolph Giuliani hired a Catholic priest to work in his consulting firm months after the priest was accused of sexually molesting two former students and an altar boy and told by the church to stop performing his priestly duties.
The priest, Monsignor Alan Placa, a longtime friend of Giuliani and the priest who officiated at his second wedding to Donna Hanover, continues to work at Giuliani Partners in New York, to the outrage of some of his accusers and victims' groups, which have begun to protest at Giuliani campaign events.
"This man did unjust things, and he's being protected and employed and taken care of. It's not a good thing," said one of the accusers, Richard Tollner, who says Placa molested him repeatedly when he was a student at a Long Island, N.Y. Catholic boys high school in 1975.
At a campaign appearance in Milwaukee last week, Giuliani continued to defend Placa, who he described to reporters as a close friend for 39 years.
"I know the man; I know who he is, so I support him," Giuliani said. "We give some of the worst people in our society the presumption of innocence and benefit of the doubt," he said. "And, of course, I'm going to give that to one of my closest friends."
Interestingly, despite his protestations to the Religious Right that they had nothing to fear from him at the Values Voter Summit last weekend, Giuliani obviously did not impress them. However, that didn't keep the media from furthering the narrative of his front-runner status.
I don't know that a cozy relationship with a disgraced and defrocked monsignor is going to help Giuliani win more votes from those last remaining diehards in the Republican Party. That would make those in the media pushing him as the candidate look bad, wouldn't it? So what are the chances that anyone other than Brian Ross will mention it?
isnt this post a bit presumptuous?
'innocent until proven guilty'?
Umm seriously...he's "ACCUSED" not "CONVICTED"...don't stoop to the level of the right wing! People are innocent until proven guilty in this country (unless they get kidnapped to gitmo)...so stop piling with crap like this!
What exactly does this priest do to earn a paycheck from Giuliani Partners?
I second thought, I don't want to know.
Placa knows Guiliani's past.
Some people are impossible to fire or divorce.
Seán Hannity attended the same school while Placa was there as Dean of Students.
Fox's phone should really be ringing off the hook about now...
A Catholic priest raping boys? Unimaginable.
Seriously, if he is accused, let him go to court. If there is evidence to show that he is being protected, lets hear that.
On the other hand, I wouldn't let him hang around my kids.
So what are the chances that anyone other than Brian Ross will mention it?
Oh, the chances are slim indeed! I think it's interesting that a conservative bastion like ABC News would even allow Brian Ross to report on something like this in the first place. What gives?
Ghouliani to Fr. Placa, "I wish I could quit you".
Monorail @ 7:
It's past the statute of limitations for them to pursue a criminal case. However, the information given to the Archdiocese was compelling enough that they told Placa he could no longer perform priestly functions. It's not like the Catholic Church is known for pre-emptive actions when accusations of molestation come up.
Giuliani hired Placa after the accusation and defrocking...and Giuliani has a history of retaining relationships business and otherwise with people who have shady backgrounds (Kerik, anyone?). I'm just trying to show a pattern here.
I agree that he is innocent until proven guilty. No matter what the appearances, that has to remain the standard.
Sorry PVS and Igor, he will never be found guilty because the statute of limitations has run out. In the court of public opinion, however, we are free to hang him on the basis that he has been banned by his church from wearing his priestly garb and fulfilling his priestly functions. The fact that he has bragged about how he has helped keep molesters from being brought to justice is equally damning. So, no, it is not presumptuous to judge this pedophile harshly, nor is it unfair to judge Guiliani by the company he keeps. On his payroll.
I have to say that I support Guilliani in this (probably the ONLY thing I will ever agree with him about). At this point it is a he said she said situation and he is saying he knows the man so I am guessing that he knows him well enough that he doesn't believe accusations. Also, the alleged victim is livid because he has a job. What would he do, have him shackled and sent to the desert to die? Unless this guy is tried and convicted of a crime should his life be over because of accusations? He did already pay a high price in loosing his vocation so in a sense he has paid for the alleged crime. You can't deny him an opportunity to earn a living.
Joementum @ 3:
Absolution ........
Watch V for Vendetta ;)
Though I do agree with innocent till proved guilty, don't turn into the enemy. Even with the R.C. church's track record .........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases
Nicole, thanks for that additional information and that does cast a different shadow on the story. What is he consulting about at Rudy's firm? What value is he adding to the firm?
Hannity will blame it on a left wing conspiracy and Matthews will get all girly and giddy extolling Placa's manly good looks.
What's a "Values Voter" to do?
It sounds like the Church convicted him.
Considering that they prefer to hush these things up, the evidence was probably overwhelming. And it may not have just been two boys that they knew about.
Bill O'Reilly could help defend him. This is right up his alley. He'd argue that the boys seduced the priest.
pissed off patricia @ 11:
PoP,
I usually agree with you but this time, not so much. The Catholic church doesn't exactly have a stellar track record in dealing with pedophile priests. As far as I'm concerned, any time they're willing to go so far as to remove one from his position it's as good as a conviction. After all, they know all the grisly details that they'll never allow the public to ever hear.
Weaseldog @ 18:
That...or that it sounds as if Richard Tollner had a good thing going there....just like Shawn Hornbeck...
Oh...and here's the phone number for Fox News:
(212) 556-2500
.
Wouldn't protecting and defending a disgraced defrocked pedo be something that would make the religious reich happy?
Another sicko friend of Giuliani.
It is rather telling that the incredibly negligent Catholic Church defrocked this bastard considering how many of these freaks are shuffled around and protected (Bernard Law anyone? Pope RATzinger requesting immunity for such things from Bush? Hello...).
This creep is as innocent as OJ.
The court system provides a "presumption of innocence" to the accused.
That doesn't mean that Giuliani needs to pay someone who seems to be a criminal.
I guess I am ornery today. I am not sure why this is a story. He wasn't actually convicted of anything. While I agree that a de-frocking may be as good as guilty. However, are pedophiles never supposed to work again in their lives? Granted I don't want them teaching school or exposed to an environment full of children, but what are they supposed to do? Go to a leper colony to live out the rest of their days?
Great. On the other thread it appeared I was condoning rendition and now I am going to look like I am protecting pedophiles.
I need a drink
So people don't listen, it was found that he did rap these boys and covered up for others. but because of the statue of limitation he can't be prosecuted.
t-bone @ 12:
and what if its simply a case of an overly paranoid and kneejerk reactionary cathlic church simply banning accused priests to avoid any more negative publicity? you seem to imply a justified chain reaction of unproven convictions, from the accusers, to the bishops, to the public. just a series of accusations, each put forth justified by the last. all seems sort of a mccarthyist mentality, imho
t-bone @ 12:
Monorail @ 7:
Igor @ 2:
So people don’t listen, it was found that he did rap these boys and covered up for others. but because of the statue of limitation he can’t be prosecuted
Click here for the Suffolk County Grand Jury's Report.
Yellow elephant (19) if you read my comment (15) after Nicole added more info to the story I felt different about the situation.
Fanon @ 24:
We expect Presidential candidates to have a higher standard in choosing work associates.
Why does Placa look so familiar? As far as I know I have never seen anyone named Placa before but still, he looks very familiar.
pissed off patricia @ 31:
Funny, I was thinking the same thing!!!
.
Sick pricks stick together.
Dave @ 30:
Maybe you do. I have stopped expcectin anything from people in public life. I certainly never expect that their standards or morals are higher than the average human.
pissed off patricia @ 31:
He didn't molest you, did he?
pissed off patricia @ 31:
He looks like John Wayne Gacy.
Rudolph Giuliani Is Going Down Too Fast; The Dems Need Him
Dammit, I was hoping Rudolph Giuliani would capture the Republican Party nomination for presidency. It appears, as they often do, the Republicans live in a pipe dream. I was counting on this fact to help the Democrats get elected into the executive office.
Lets face it, Giuliani has problems. His kids hate him; he hates minorities; he supports gays and dresses in drag every now and then just to feel the soft nylon texture on his body. The former of these issues alone will defeat his national bid for presidency. Anybody hanging on to the Bush doctrine concerning Iraq and Iran deserves to be defeated. It takes a special kind of stupidity to not see our current president is a loser. Hello Giuliani, do you want us to "bring it on" as well?
The Mass Flip-Flop Of The Republican Candidates is Coming
Oh it is coming. As soon as the Republicans get through with their primary, they will tone down the far right call to continue the war, reverse their strong "right to life" call, and, while their at it, reverse any other extreme view that has no place outside of the far right. It will be a flip-flop party like you never saw before. It will not work. The American voter is too critical and wore out of Republican lies and manipulations. It is time for a veto proof change. The Republican's ability to think they know what America's need is biggest dysfunctional aspect of the Republican Party. They are out of touch and very guilty of believing their own lies Let Giuliani do his thing. We need him.
Joseph
Joseph
Joseph @ 37:
You're dreaming.
Dave @ 30:
I agree with Nicole and Dave on this one. I would like to add that Guiliani can still be a friend without hiring him. It's insensitive to the victims if you ask me. The fact that Rude-y always acts so surprised when people are taken aback by his actions and choices are evidence of his cluelessness and not his fitness for the highest office in the nation. I had enough Bubble Boy as Prez to last a lifetime.
Rudy says his best friend is a child molesting catholic priest, that explains why Rudy likes to where dresses. They are both sexual spastics....
Never wanna defend Jerkiani, but an accusation does not equal proof.
t-bone @ 12:
So the only "evidence" you have is that he bragged about something. I don't think you fully understand PVS and Igor's reasoning. You do seem to fully understand how to use Rovian tactics. Lovely use of the word pedophile, but you should use the current fear raising term of choice, child predator.
Yep, the right wing has started their spin already...
"Well...well....what about Clinton?!?!?!?!"
.
Once a Pedophile ALWAYS a Pedophile. I don't take kindly to people who protect and make excuses for them. Rudy does fit that M.O.
Fox Noise ran this story back in August about it. http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Aug10/0,4670,GiulianiCatholicism,00.html
Well it is nice Giuliani takes care of his friends- and his former wives and kids just love him too. Well I guess we should vote for him. I am tired- how much longer until the election?
And when we have a democratic president... another 4 to 8 years of whining?
I am tired- how much longer until the rapture?
I won't knock someone for not discriminating against someone who's been accused and is entitled to the presumption of innocence. He's taking a risk in doing that, even with his own base of voters. What gets me is that Repubs are only champions of civil rights when it comes to themselves and their "very close friends." Anyone else would be, as suggested by the post, presumed guilty and unworthy of any job other than maybe cleaning toilets in jail by Guliani. Repubs are hypocrites. "Loyalty" to friends trumps everything. Civil rights are only used as a means to an end. They're hypocrites. Let's not become them just to attack them. Focus on the real issues revealed by his actions.
Cantor de Mambo @ 46:
True. Perhaps the most important things that a President does is appointing people to work with him.
Dave @ 47:
"Appointing" someone who's been accused of a crime shows what?
Well, we've got the pedophile priest and the mafia pal (Bernard Kerik)....I wonder if Romney will mention them. Nah. But what really scares me about Rudy is that his "foreign policy advisors" are essentially the same American Enterprise Institute PNAC-NeoCons who were in bed with Cheney when it came to hyping the need to go to war in Iraq, and all those bogus assurances how well it would go. Giuliani: Bush on steroids. And if anyone will relish reveling in the Unitary Executive power grab (another Cheney gift to Amerika), it'll be Rudy.
pissed off patricia @ 31:
He kind of looks like a heavy-set Anderson Cooper. Could that be it?
So PVS thinks the Catholic Church's over reaction is a better explanation for his defrocking than anything his victims have alleged, and fuddled thinks I'm "Rovian" for reaching the conclusion that a wide majority of reasonable people would reach based on the smoke/fire association of a defrocked priest and allegations of pedophilia. Then by all means give him the benefit of your faith in innocent until proven guilty and let him spend some quality alone time with your kids.
" 'This man did unjust things, and he’s being protected and employed and taken care of. It’s not a good thing,' said one of the accusers, Richard Tollner, who says Placa molested him repeatedly when he was a student at a Long Island, N.Y. Catholic boys high school in 1975."
I believe Richard Tollner. Why the hell would anybody make this up? This is how those who prey on children and young kids get away with it--nobody wants to admit it happens. We'd rather stick our heads in the sand than face it. That empowers the sickos.
People who commit these heinous acts don't do them in front of others, they hide and do it, then deny it when caught--and people believe them before they believe the child. "Not a good thing" is putting it mildly. Giuliani is as sick as a pedophile priest.
Train @ 41:
Someone up thread posted the Grand Jury testimony. He can't be convicted, but enough there was enough damning testimony to get him defrocked.
Rudy has ties to the mob, sex offenders and everything in between but Fox and Clear Channel only talk about his "leadership during 9/11"
EJG @ 13:
Amen. We have descended to a very low point in our society where there are people who believe that someone who is convicted, or accused of molestation must be denied any and all forms of existence. These people truly believe that such individuals should be denied the ability to support themselves, denied the ability to live in their homes, denied the ability to exist.
This kind of belief system is wrong and people who espouse it know it. They are merely playing into the fear and lowest common denominator.
Yes, protect yourselves and your children from those accused and convicted of molestation, but do not advocate the inhuman practice or notion of societal banishment.
zero. nada. zip. zilch. 0.
down the memory hole.
Sailor Art Thomas Jr. @ 50:
I wouldn't hire Anderson Cooper for nothing either.
Considering he wasn't convicted, I don't think one could argue that he shouldn't be employed at all. On the other hand, it does say something about how Rudy picks his friends. And like Cantor de Mambo said above, as long as your in the club, Rudy will maintain loyalty. What an asswipe. I'm sure Rudy didn't extend the same gentility to the subjects of his prosecution who were technically never convicted.
That story was all kinds of wrong. The Right to Life connection made me a little nauseous, and that went into the full-on dry-heaves with the story about how this twice alleged child mollestor was appointed to a policy position within the church involving work on what to do with priests who mollest children.
The defense was ultra-lame: "Well, I've got four people here who were never mollested by that priest."
Seriously? That's the best you could think of?
As someone who was molested as a child, I still feel like anyone is innocent until proven guilty. If we punished someone upon accusation, then we could accuse anyone of anything and starve them to death as they languished in unemployment while awaiting a trial to decide their guilt or innocence.
Religion? Perversion? Pedophilia? ....Guili's polls will sky rocket once this news is translated and spoon fed to the rightwing apes.
Actually I think pedophiles should be executed. They are incurable.
anonymous @ 59:
It's no longer a matter of punishment.
The statute of limitation has conveniently expired for Fr. Placa.
It's rather a matter of questionable judgement on the part of a man who aspires to the highest office in the country.
It seems to me, from reading the Grand Jury report, that one victim, the altar boy in the previous parish assignment would not have known the other two boy, who were students at the latter assignment, Sean Hannity's alma mater.
Again, too long ago statutorally to jail Placa, but credible enough to shun him.
t-bone @ 51:
i never presumed a thing. i merely offered alternative possibilities.
jr @ 54:
and Sandy Berger is hired by Hillary and no one but Fox reports on it.
you decide.
How would Sean Hannity cover this story if...
1.) ...he didn't attend the school where Placa worked?
2.) ...Placa had been closely associated with and on the payroll of a Democratic candidate for President?
Nicole Belle @ 53:
There's a phrase about a ham sandwich and grand juries. I'll leave the judgment of guilt to those who are duly charged with making such a judgment: a jury hearing all the evidence. My opinion is another matter.
Having gone to the same college -- Manhattan College in the Bronx -- that Rudi did, albeit 10 years later than he, I can understand how Monsignor Placa, who went to Manhattan C. with Rudi learned about sexual predation by Catholic priests and brothers and about how to intimidate accusers. It was an interesting environment to go to from my very sheltered Catholic all-girl high school. It was a school that my overly religious mother pushed for over MIT (I got a perfect score on the Math portion of the SATs and so was recruited for the first co-ed class of MIT). She thought that the temptations of the secular world would not touch me at Manhattan College. She was a fool. I probably would have been virginal at graduation had I gone to MIT.
For anyone with a memory, I went to Manhattan College around the same time Father Bruce Ritter was sending his favored street boys up there for "refinement".
I lost my faith in Catholicism because of Manhattan College. The sexual games and entrapments of the Christian Brothers there were astounding ... for the guys far more so than the girls, but definitely for both. And the degree to which they penalized anyone who strayed, got outed, or got pregnant was breathtaking in its gross hypocrisy.
It sounds like the Church convicted him.
-Seth
Every vote counts.. make sure yours does..
I voted for Rudy Giuliani at
http://ourvote.us
Guilt by association to someone who we don't even know commited a crime? This is pretty thin. I think Rudy is a schmuck but let's rise above this type of story
Hey, Norman Hsu is just "accused" of fraud, and Hillary gave all his money back. Romney's National Co-Chairman was indicted, and he was disowned by Romney and thrown under the bus. The point is, the Grand Jury believed the testimony they heard about this priest. He hasn't been charged because of the statute of limitations.
Imagine, now, if Hillary had decided to keep Hsu's money until the charges against him were proved. The election would be over before the money was repaid. And offering four students who weren't molested, who didn't hear the rumors? What does Rudy take people for? Molestation in the '70s was something all the kids talked about? Of course not. It was a process where certain kids were stalked, and then isolated and abused, and the emotional threats they felt about going public was intense. It was a priest, for God's sake! My memory, from the Catholic school where I went, is that the very devout kids were the ones chosen as targets, because they could be tied in knots with guilt and Fear of the Lord, and made to be quiet about what the Holy Man of Authority had done to them. It's not an accident that these kids come forward many years later. They were conned and brainwashed by some real monsters.
I lost my faith in Catholicism because of Manhattan College. The sexual games and entrapments of the Christian Brothers there were astounding … for the guys far more so than the girls, but definitely for both. And the degree to which they penalized anyone who strayed, got outed, or got pregnant was breathtaking in its gross hypocrisy.
My brother's experience with the Christian Brothers was of pure sadism. The beat some kids in his school within an inch of their lives. But I know there was a famous, and horrendous case, in Newfoundland, where the Christian Brothers (they weren't brothers, and you can question if they were Christian) ran an orphanage, and managed to cover up their molestations of the young, poor kids who were put in their care for decades, because the bishop and the government protected them.
Funny, but I've always been for the separation of Church and state just for this reason.
Giuliani is a terrible judge of people. He seems to surround himself with criminals, liars, and shady characters. He can't even choose a wife properly! You thought "Brownie" was bad - wait till you see who gets hired by this guy if we allow him anywhere near the White House.
It's unbelievable, but I am concluding that this guy is actually worse than bush. And that is as bad as it gets.
Big surprise knowing that all Reslugs only fake that they're religious, but they really love child molesters and criminals.
There's a reason a statute of limitations exists...if you don't know why look it up. The point all along has been...he was never convicted...no matter what the evidence looks like he has not been found guilty by a court of law. The fact that the church removed him means nothing...
If Obama was fired from a job and accused of murder at the same time but never convicted would you all of a sudden be condemning him as a murderer despite never being convicted because he was fired from his job due to the allegations? I don't think so.
Stop stooping to the level of the rabid right wing in gaining up on "accused" or condemning people for associating with innocent men who were accused of something that was never legally proven.
You either believe in innocent until proven guilty and someone's day in court or you believe in no rights for accused terrorists cause hey...they are accused and there's some evidence so they must be guilty.
O. J. was not convicted either.
Nancy Pelosi is a child molester.
There i just accused Pelosi of molesting chlidren, therefore Democrats named an accused child molester to be speaker of the house.
This whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing is a legal precedent, not a standard for civil conduct. This guy has endured several allegations that he is a pedophile and the Catholic Church de-frocked him. It is in incredibly poor taste for Giuliani to allow him to continue to be part of the campaign.
I'm not saying this guy is guilty - in fact, I'm not saying anything about the priest at all. The problem is Giuliani, who values loyalty more than doing the right thing. Sound familiar?
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