House Flunks Boehner's Attempt to Censure Stark; Stark Apologizes Anyway
By Nicole Belle Monday Oct 22, 2007 1:17pmThe "Battered Spouse Syndrome" has hit the Congressional Democrats. Again.
House Minority Leader John "Cry Baby" Boehner got the vay-puhs (can't you see him clutching his pearls in horror?) from Rep. Pete Stark's harsh words after the SCHIP vote last week...what delicate sensibilities the minority party has! My gosh, it's almost as if Rep. Stark was heartless enough to be glib about the lives of our troops in harm's way. So naturally, because we can't have mean words or insinuations that our President isn't a Very Serious Person, Boehner introduced a privileged resolution to censure Pete Stark.
Chairman Bennie Thompson moved to table the resolution (which basically meant that they weren't going to consider it; all these ridiculous parliamentary procedures give me a headache) and the resolution was tabled with a vote of 196-173.
You might be interested in knowing that 5 Democrats voted with the Republicans on condemning Rep Stark and another 8-- all reactionaries-- voted "Present," refusing to come to Stark's defense. You can probably guess the names of the disgraceful 13 Democrats. Howie has the list here.
Despite the tabling of the resolution, an apparently chastened Stark did formally apologize:
(thanks to TPM for vid)
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I sent this email to Rep. Stark:
Dear Congressman Stark,
Thank you for further enabling the Republican Party to continue its assault on the Democrats, the Democrat Party and patriotic Liberals throughout the country. Your apology today was totally unnecessary and unfortunate. In fact, it was a real embarrassment. The phony Censure Resolution against you should have never been allowed to come to the floor in the first place. As it was, the vote was not able to pass and your apology was inappropriate. I only wish you had chosen to stand up to the Party that has literally taken this country and broken it into so many small little pieces. The utter lawlessness they have consistently exhibited has been simply breathtaking, to say the least and the damage they have done in the last seven years will take decades to correct, assuming we have politicians with the courage to speak the truth and not waver from their convictions. Today, you failed in that regard.
========
Let him know how you feel:
http://www.house.gov/stark/contact/index.htm
He apologized? And do we really think a Democrat will get elected President in '08? I know everyone says it will happen, but every day I see the Democrats folding more and more to Republican tactics. If they haven't learned by now, what makes them think they'll suddenly win by folding everytime Republicans scream "boo!"?
Unless we get Dodd or Edwards, we're doomed.
I'm so angry over this that my head is about to explode...I called Pelosi's office to tell them how disappointed I was that this even got to the floor and then emailed Start about his craven caving statement...he owed NO APOLOGY TO ANYONE!
He had the backing of 98% of the comments I saw in the progressive blogosphere, a 93% CNN poll telling him he shouldn't apologize, and I doubt whethere his constituency back in California was telling him to cave...
So I can only assume it was the cowardly Dem leadership who put pressure on him for this pathetic apology...
AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
this is why i'm not a democrat.
how anyone can attach themselves to such a group of gutless gasbags is beyond me. yes, i understand the democratic party is a big diverse group that yadda, yadda, yadda. it doesn't matter. do you believe in what you say or don't you?
THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.
Unless we get Gore/Kucinich we are screwed....
On to the next GOP faux "outrage" story for the "liberal" media to obsess over for a week.
Well, well, well. . . how surprising. Apologizing for telling the truth to criminals. Yesterday I got a mailing from the demonocratic party asking for a contribution. I responded by sending a note saying that I have lost faith in them, and that Pete Stark had told the truth. . .
Weenie.
Democracy in the US is truly dead, I'd leave now before you get RFID'ed and drafted.
Ball-less, soul-less bastards. And the Republicans, too.
Another one bites the dust. I knew this would happen in about a months time. Makes me even more ashamed to be associated with these cowards.
below_me @ 5:
Amen to that!
Methinks more like "Pussy"
The gop asked to strike his words and the speaker said no.
The gop kept the pressure on and they caved again.
Weak positions do not win elections.
Voters are not going to vote for weak, spineless people in this period of permanent war.
Geez.
It's the PRIMARIES, stupid!
at what point did people in Nazi Germany realize that it was time to get out???
Did he give the repugs a kiss and some reach around too? Or is that for later in the men's room?
"I'm sorry, I described the situation so accurately."
I haven't independently verified this (perhaps a C&Ler would like to?), but per a comment I saw at FDL, a commenter there called Stark's office to ask why he would apologize and was told by the office representative that Stark had been told he HAD to, otherwise the censure resolution would go forward and likely voted for.
Nice party unity there, huh?
Suppose, now, just suppose for a second that we don't have TWO political parties but in fact ONE political party with two factions allied to nothing but power.
Suppose, just suppose, that the competition between the two factions is not about a vigorous debate between patriotic ideologies, but is in fact a contrived sideshow designed to annoy, outrage and otherwise distract the rest of us.
Suppose, just suppose, that this phony outrage and divisiveness, while slightly benefiting one party more than another from time to time is, on the whole, consistently beneficial to both.
Suppose, just suppose, we have been lied to, manipulated, falsely promised change when, in fact, the intention all along has been to keep us scared and silent.
Suppose, just suppose, that whenever anyone points this out and walks away from this ugly, disease-infested mockery of democracy, whether they're Guiliani-abandoning Christians or Nader-voting liberals, that those people are vilified by their supposed caucus for allowing the "bad guys" to win and the "good guys" to lose, as though the game had good guys and bad guys instead of just bad guys and worse guys.
What would that look like?
Nicole Belle @ 19:
It is if we all accept the fact it's a one party system.
Why am I not surprised?
There is not a spine in the democratic bunch, spineless is synonymous with democrat - now in stone.
UFB
Why do we think Democrats will do the right thing when we know Republicans won't. Are Democratic Politicians any better than Republican Politicians no they are all Human. It is the system that is CORRUPT and until we REALIZE this we will always be disappointed. We should be ignoring these SCUMBAGS in office now and use them as the poster children for the need to change the system. Can you imagine if we had commercials showing the raging incompetance of both parts and then show how it is the system that is taking seemingly good people and turning them rotten. It would be a very powerful message that must people could see. We have been divided and conquered already it's time to fight back.
[Deleted. Shouldn't you run along now? I hear the 3 Billy Goats Gruff coming-Sitemonitor]
It seems as if the criminal element of the Republican party has a stranglehold on your country and there is no worthy opposition in place to come to your aid. It is a sad thing to witness - the decline and fall of America.
Oh, man alive!!
If I'm hearing Stark correctly, he's saying, "Fine, I'll apologize gracefully, if it means we can just forget this non-incident, and get back to serious business."
He exhibits a certain nobility common among Democrats and wise human beings in general: that of willfully incurring petty injustices for a perceived greater good.
But here's the thing...............
Democrats MUST STOP BEHAVING THIS WAY!! It has become utterly ignoble and unwise, and demonstrates how they just don't see what's happening around them. There is no greater good to be served in this case.
The Republicans aren't merely a bunch of petty children who actually will get back to serious business if you'll just let hit you and call you names. No, bullying, name-calling and pettiness are part and parcel of their political strategy. And Stark has only fed them another victory.
Republicans are going to keep making issues out of nothing, and forcing decent people to incur petty injustices in the forlorn hope that Congress and the country can move on. We won't. We can't. The Republicans will never let it happen.
Stark should have stood his ground. Pragmatism and realism are not our friends when dealing with this batch of Republicans or their noise machine. They only make us continually lose staring contests. Stop blinking! Tell them to go fuck themselves, and give it up, and then, maybe we can get back to serious business.
Spinless gutless sewer worms!
That they are even my fellow countrymen makes me feel soiled.
These... these... umm... people?... are a national disgrace.
This nation is truly dead where it stands, it is just too stupid to know it.
And as usual it was the wealthy oligarchy that sold us down river.
Maybe next time around we can make it part of the Constitution (the new one) that wealth has limits. (Fat chance)
He apologized?????
wtf??????
[Deleted. While you're at it, why don't you make some generalization about an ethnic minority-Sitemonitor]
The Democrats talk tough until it comes time to stand tall and strong against the status quo - which is never talked about in public.
In order for the average US 'Mercan citizen to continue to go to work every day and get the shrinking money he needs to consume the way he's suppose to, the status quo must not change, and everyone comes to realize this sooner or later once they see the inside of the way your governmrnt works.
You are doomed as a nation, and as a culture - your days are numbered.
By land in Mexico, while your dollar is still worth something. (Please stay away from Canada.)
How the hell can the dems show they can be tough on terrorism when they can't even be tough on republicans?
I guess Stark just wanted the whole damned thing to go away and die. I wish he hadn't caved and had taken whatever came at him like a man. He should have stood by his words and if the rest of the house didn't like it, to hell with them. At least he would have come away with his pride and his determination intact.
I Am Sorry For
Telling You The Exact Truth
Dem Campaign Slogan
Sorry, So Sorry
I Did Not Mean To Make Karl
Rove Angry, Sorry
A very sad day indeed for democracy...the Democrats, on the Hill, are now no different than the Republicans.
Very sad,
I wrote Rep. Stark over the weekend supporting him and now this. Can anyone tell the emperor his ass is hanging out and nopt back down?
APOLOGIZE for your crass, insensitive and cruel WMD "comedy" film, bush! And all you sycophantic Repubs who never chastened him for it, you apologize, too, you heartless bastards.
Stark should be given a medal for hitting the nerve of truth in the Congressional body. Instead, they savor the wound and attack the medicine.
JasonS @ 20:
"Suppose" nothing...
Canuknotusa @ 29:
[deleted--hey, hey, hey...temper! His post wasn't directed to you personally and then you respond with a personal attack? Nope, not going to fly.]
Sent to Nancy Pelosi, my congresswoman:
Now you've lost me.
The Democrat (sorry, you now have to earn the 'ic') party lost me on war funding. You and Barbara Boxer were going to be the last two Democrats I would vote for until they earned it back.
I've supported you my whole life. Those days are over. My eyes are open.
Dragging Pete Stark in front of the house to "apologize" for speaking the truth to power has convinced me: you're all part of the same evil, vile, wicked, corrupt, complicit, criminal conspiracy to destroy our beloved country, and you all must go.
You've proven yourself to be an enemy of everything I hold dear about this nation. It breaks my heart to say so. Truly.
Good bye. I'll be voting for whatever independent houseplant runs against you, unless you convince me to do otherwise, which you still have time to do.
The clock is ticking. Show me that you're not what you appear to be: another rubber stamp, endorsing executive criminality.
Show us all.
-JS
I don't understand why don't the Democratic committee just strip the traitors of their party label and let them go independent? If the danger of losing the majority party status is the issue, then I don't see what difference it would make if Pelosi doesn't use her position for the party. We would lose the advantage anyway if we allow false Democratic leaders to run amok as it is, but at least the voters in that district would know who they are and not be fooled again and give all the democrats a bad name.
Bud @ 35:
Well said.
No more, absolutely NO more, donations/contributions to ANY Dem. candidate seeking
election. Their total lack of representing WE THE PEOPLE has now reached the point
that I, and hopefully others, will look elsewhere for honest and reputable individuals
for representation. There is no more "across the aisle" distinction...ALL are of one
party and purpose.
I sent an E-Mail to this Stark prick telling him I supported him. Now I'm going to sent him another one telling him to go to HELL.
Of course he apologized. Show me a single Dem with the balls to say something and stand behind it when the GOP expresses their "outrage."
There is none.
The Dems are the same spineless pussies that the GOP says they are. We'll see it again when they give Chimpy his extra $46 billion. The Dems will cave in, but then tell us about how tough they'll be next time.
Worthless skidmarks. Every one of them.
Weak! More weak tea, please! God damn, these people suck! Oh, just ignore the MAJORITY of people who support you, Stark, and make sure you fucking cave in ASAP! This makes me so angry! We are talking about peoples lives here...and in the big picture this weak bullshit is what will get us into a war with IRAN and fuck the world up for generations to come!! Throw all these bastards out!!! They don't represent us. This kind of crap will sink this ship known as the USA.
I'm sorry I must have been out of the damn country when the Republicans apologized for having their cronies trash the Frost family. What the hell is wrong with the Democrats? Bush and the rest of his rotten, lowlife supporters should apologize to the whole world for his disastrous policies.
Maybe this should be a litmus test for all Dem candidates:
Should Pete Stark have apologized? Yes or no. No spinning or equivocating allowed.
Answer yes, and you have a PC spineless wimp, ready to appease right wing fascism, ready to apologize for telling the truth.
Answer no, and you have someone ready to deal with reality, ready to call things like they are.
PUSSYCRATS!
> I don’t understand why don’t the Democratic committee just strip the traitors of their party label and let them go independent?
Because. They. Are. Part. Of. The. Same. Corruption. They. Claim. To. Oppose.
The game is what's paramount here, not the players or who's currently ahead or behind. They're all more loyal to keeping the game going than to doing the right thing.
The only way that's gonna change is if WE change the game. And it's not about people. Pelosi, Reid, even Hagel and McCain are likely good, honest, well-meaning people at heart, but they've been convinced that in order to DO good they have to win THIS game.
Unfortunately, being able to win the game makes you manifestly unqualified to govern.
The only cure here is tough love. Withdraw. All. Support. REFUSE to compromise. Vote ONLY for candidates who stand up for what they believe in, even if they lose time and time and time and time again.
Then those who know how to play the power game will make the calculation: we have to score more points on the "integrity thing."
And remember: it's not good enough to get a little reform. You have to HOLD their feet to the fire at EVERY election. You have to REFUSE to compromise. You have to REFUSE to be dragged into petty squabbles. You have to STICK to the important issues and banish all thought of haircuts and lapel pins and phony outrage.
It's in your hands and mine now. They are nothing but our instruments and we have failed to learn how to play them.
The shame is upon us all.
And don't let it happen again, Stark. You chickenshit bastard.
How the hell can the dems show they can be tough on terrorism when they can’t even be tough on republicans?
Ex-ACTLY!!!
Wuss. Just like the rest of them.
Back to being an independent. Downloading the change in registration form as I type.
three words: Term limits
Big whoop, everybody knows Stark was right. Now Boner and his gang won't have anything to whine about.
Kudos to Bennie Thompson from my adopted home state of Mississippi. Nice to hear one of our guys doing something good.
Gutless and nutless!!! I am so ashamed of the Dems I'm sick! They deserve to be kicked around like the dogs they are. I sent Stark an email in support of his comments only to be shown that, while the emperor has no clothes, he and the other dems have no stones. To hell with all of them. My money goes only to the ACLU and MoveOn.org. Maybe if we quit donating to the cowardly Dem bastards, they'd grow a pair.
Just stop for a moment and think about all the dirty deeds that people within the GOP and this administration have done. When have they EVER apologized? Plame and her husband haven't received an apology from anyone in the White House.
pissed off patricia @ 30:
Right on, pop!
Looks like I'll have to keep my checkbook closed for Stark next time he's up for reelection. Too bad, I would have gladly supported him and he's not even my representative.
Nicole Belle @ 19:
Perhaps that explains this: "I hope that with this apology, I return to being as insignificant as I should be," he finished in an emotional, breaking voice.
I'm still having a hard time with this part of the apology. I'm having a tough time with the entire apology, but you get my drift.
below_me @ 5:
I think it's time to forget about Dennis. Apparently, we learned today that he gets his orders from UFO's....and Gore won't be running. Trust me. Gore No Run. Looks like we're stuck with a motley bunch to pick from. I've got a headache.
GOP: "APOLOGIZE YOU SATAN-WORSHIPING, AMERICA-HATING, TERRORIST-LOVING, LIBERAL TRAITOR DEMOCRAT SCUM!!!"
Me: "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave MY ASS!"
why am i registered as an independent voter. because time and time again dems seems to show no ability to handle winning. WTF. another roll over and apology for doing nothing wrong and nothing nearly as offensive as any number of repubes.
NOTE To DEMS: stop making it so easy for repubes to blame you for inaction and weakness. you also xontrol the agenda in the house so show some control.
did anyone else think it sounded like he was verklempt at end of his speech?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OVasewV7OpA
Whatever... Stark made his original comments and it was just too damned close to the truth of it for D.C. either side to handle... I read these comments and I agree with the following posters perspective on it all....
The Walrus@1
Wagonjak@3
Getalife@14
YS@18
Jasons@20
Karen@26
POP@30
Tim@31
Straightshooter@34
All well spoken..... I really can't add anything that these posters haven't already pointed out quite accurately.....Except this has just about put me in Jasons@37's camp on the DNC and dems in congress...Motherfuckers better show something other than a spine made of jello pretty damned soon.....
Oh, and a small personal note to canuknotusa... [Deleted. Personal attack. I deleted that part of his post. It WAS offensive-Sitemonitor]... WE ARE NOT all the same [Deleted]!!! IF you actually believe that, you're as big a moron as any of the morons on either side of the aisles in DC right now..JD
MargeAggedon @ 17:
Kinda hard to reach around when you're the one getting screwed.
Did Rep king apologize for lying about the Schip program with his chart and pointer in hand vilifying Hillary Clinton? Why didn't anyone call him on his lies and spin? I just don't get it.
I did call Boenher's office today to tell them that they need to ask bush now to apologize for his crass WMD joke. It's amazing that this stupid sohomoric joke was swept away when it happened. I wish it could be shown over and over and over with the words 3000 troops killed above it and thousands of troops wounded.
Do you think there's any hope that the Dems will refuseto vote on this new outrageous war budget?
phuck pelosi and reid
the democrats are, and have been, a TOTAL disgrace. their leadership, their pollsters, their advisors--the whole lot--need to be replaced. there are a few dems with guts, courage, honesty and intregity, and it is radically unfortunate (see, ENFURIATING) that the dem establishment runs them out, silences them, discounts and marginalizes them.
there was a reason some people voted for nader in 00. they had been screwed too many times by the dems to support the corporate-sucking, money-begging, courage-starved democrats.
and we watch the coronation of their weakness, their corruption and self-preservation at the cost of the nation. actualized thru hillary clinton.
like bush's failure (understatement) to use the international goodwill after 911 to do the right thing, the 06 dems have shown that their is little difference between their "leadership" and the GOP's.
but due to the GOP/democratic effort to shut out other political parties, we again are faced with a choice between 2 wings of the same party. don't be fooled, they are both of the neoliberal, corporate, military-empire cloth.
It's only a matter a time before the reich-wingers are going to make the Democrat(ic) Party apologize for dubyah's 8 years of failures, defeats, destruction, and incompetence. Just wait.....
wagonjak @ 3:
Crybaby whiner republican$... fuck off you adolescent idiots! Grow up and be the adults your age might indicate.
No apology now or ever for Mr. Stark's remarks. They were on the money and enough said!
Karen @ 26:
Quoted in full, since it nicely sums up my pov as well. The only thing... despite the disappointment I feel at this moment I know he's not the problem; it's the leadership. Stark should be relatively insignificant, but so long as the leaders are insignificant themselves it's a wait and see for someone to break through the heavy weight at the top of the party. OK, it's not going to be Stark; but consider this sampling of his voting record:
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)
Voted YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Rated 17% by the US COC, indicating an anti-business voting record. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on replacing death penalty with life imprisonment. (Apr 1994)
Voted YES on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on giving federal aid only to schools allowing voluntary prayer. (Mar 94)
Opposes requiring schools to allow school prayer. (Jan 2001)
Rated 92% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. (May 2007)
Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on passage of the Bush Administration national energy policy. (Jun 2004)
Voted NO on implementing Bush-Cheney national energy policy. (Nov 2003)
Voted YES on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000)
Regulate wholesale electricity & gas prices. (Mar 2001)
Preserve Alaska's ANWR instead of drilling it. (Feb 2001)
Rated 95% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes. (Dec 2003)
Rated 7% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record. (Dec 2003)
Voted NO on implementing CAFTA, Central America Free Trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on implementing US-Australia Free Trade Agreement. (Jul 2004)
Voted NO on implementing US-Singapore free trade agreement. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on implementing free trade agreement with Chile. (Jul 2003)
Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record. (Dec 2003)
Voted NO on denying non-emergency treatment for lack of Medicare co-pay. (Feb 2006)
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on restricting no-bid defense contracts. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant. (Sep 2006)
Rated 78% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 28% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
Voted NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Pete_Stark.htm
Majority party in name only.
The rethugs are STILL calling all the shots and the pussycrats cower in the corner in their soiled pants.
IgnoranceIsNotBliss @ 56:
He insulted a President that commands a private army of hired killers.
You don't mess with the King.
You know what? I think most of us would now be suffering from exploding heads were it not for the Crooks and Liars site and our ability to vent here. Thanks guys for providing a relief spot on the internets. :)
My head almost explodes in anger a lot of times, but I come here, release the pressure via a comment and I'm good to go for a little while longer.
Stark is an effing bufoon.
Speak with composure and reason or shut up!
Nicole Belle @ 19:
I called his California office to revoke my supportive email (yesterday) and express my
profound disappointment etc. and the aid immediately said "call Pelosi. we all feel like you do about this. it is an emotional time for us all." weird. What a bunch of babies.
Here's a trap not to fall into as we go forward: saying that the D's and R's are complicit parts of the same problem is NOT the same thing as saying there's no difference between D's and R's.
Nader falls into this again and again. Of course it's absurd to say there's "no difference," just like it's absurd to say there's "no difference" between the Harlem Globetrotters and the patsy team they play in their exhibitions.
The D's and R's pander to different bases, and they've carved them up pretty nicely into red buckets and blue buckets, so naturally they will PAY LIP SERVICE to different packages of specific proposals.
But that's all it is, lip service and the occasional half-loaf. Both parties will gladly through the most fundamental, core, identity-making planks out of their platform if they think it'll give them some strategic edge or if that plank threatens any REAL reform.
And that's what we mean by "no difference": two different roads to the same perdition.
i'll never register as a Dem and this is a perfect reason why
i blame pelosi for yet another spineless act
"I'm sooooooooooorry. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh! I spoke out against Herr Dubya and now I'm in deep doodoo. Don't beat me, pleeeeeeease!!!!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh"!
JasonS @ 37:
Excellent post! Thanks for saying it for some of us here.
Bring me the head of Raul Emmanuel.
If anyone should be falling on his sword it should be that prick.
Rep. Starks had no reason to apologize. The Dems consistently demonstrate lack of backbone and no courage of their convictions. The cowardice of the Democratically led Congress explains their 11% approval rating; three times lower than the President's approval.
keiran @ 74:
"Call Pelosi." That speaks volumes. We need real leaders in this party.
PUSSY
He brings shame to the Stark name
thanks Karen@26 for your entire post, and especially this: "Tell them to go fuck themselves, and give it up, and then, maybe we can get back to serious business."
I agree with you 100%. Time to get a grip, Democratic party, and step up to the plate. If you're playing with bullies, punch 'em in the gut. They'll leave you alone then and you can get on with what you're in that Congress for... the people of the U.S. voted you there. Time to listen to what those people want and do their bidding.
On behalf of the entire Democrat party, I'd like to apologize to Dick Cheney for that time he shot a guy in the face. Sorry. Really sorry. Please don't say mean things about me.
Jack Damage @ 62:
Way to back down, Democrats. Why bother trying to get a majority? You're still in thrall to the Thugs. Are you still afraid they're going to beat you up and take your lunch money?
What an expected disappointment. :-x
miss_kitty @ 87:
Yup, and I do think expected was the operative word there.
Don't think he should have apologized, but then again, it was a ridiculous thing to say. Bush/Cheney may be power hungry and self-serving (and have used this war as the means to hold onto power and to have gotten reelected)... but to say they get enjoyment out of the deaths of soldiers is just a stupid, distracting thing to say.
A.John.Joe @ 15:
precisely why I registered democratic. I'm voting in the primary against every incumbent except my congressman.
*sigh* Man that just depressed the hell out of me, and I can't help but think that somewhere that's part of the plan.
Didja notice that Bush keeps asking for more war funds in little bits? Because each time they cave, and we know they will, it drives down the Dem's number Just.That.Much.More.
JasonS has it right. They are all part of the system they claim to oppose.
We are never going to get anywhere until we do three VERY hard political things. 1) publicly finance elections, 2) change the laws so that corporations are no longer considered to have the same rights as individual people, 3) change the policial contribution laws so that NO corporation can give money to any branch of the policial system.
The bottom line is that these people are bought and paid for, EVEN THE WELL MEANING ONES. It's bullshit that money only buys access...it buys votes and no one can deny that. This is why ultimately Nancy will only bitch about those dirty hippies who clutter her sidewalk but she won't take the message to heart or change her ways. Why should she, she's got corporations footing her bills and a congressional district drawn to make it nearly impossible for an incumbent to lose.
No meaningful reform can begin until we take the festering and open bribery out of our policial system first. Period.
Sounds to me like they got to him somehow. How's his family doing?
ralph @ 16:
when they were looking at the pointed end of russian bayonets! suddenly, they realized that something had gone terribly wrong.
Peanutcat @ 92:
Yeah, in this age, Bush could've ordered Blackwater to take them out, and bragged about it before the press.
The MSM would laugh about how they got what they deserved.
Nothing would change.
I'm sick of having to apologize after speaking truth to power. If we had public financing of campaigns we wouldn't have to be politically correct all the time for fear of a 527 ad saying "you hate the troops"
Nicole Belle @ 19:
like I said before: phuck pelosi and reid
Nicole Belle @ 19:
I knew there had to be a reason. I'm so disgusted with the latest Democratic capitulation I can't even see straight. Obviously Stark hit too close to home. I don't blame him. I blame the House leadership for not standing up for one of their own. Wimps.
Why do Democrats have to apologize for speaking the truth? The world is suddenly upside down. I feel like I just woke up on a beach and I'm staring at a gorilla riding a pony.
miss_kitty @ 87:
Karl Rove has his permanent Republican majority. He was just cagey enough not to tell us that some of them ore Democrats.
jr @ 95:
What does "speaking truth to power" mean, does anyone think power doesn't know the truth? It's Questioning Power that will get you in trouble.
Wow, there sure are a lot of folks quick to get off the Stark bandwagon.
Of course his apology was disappointing. But at least he was willing to speak out in the first place. If he had any support from his colleagues, and ESPECIALLY FROM LEADERSHIP, his apology would never happened.
He easily could have not spoken out in the first place, which is the strategy employed by 95% of Congress. Yes, he should not have apologized, but if what was reported at Firedoglake was at all accurate, it looked like he was pressured, not by republicans, but by his own party. It also was pretty evident from the video, particularly at the end, that it was tearing him up to make that apology.
The question to ask is whether it was tearing him up because he realized he was alone in his views and his own party had abandoned him, or whether it was wreaking havoc on him because he abadoned his principles.
So, yes, Stark squandered any sort of admiration we may have had for him. I don't think, necessarily, that he should be on the receiving end of our scorn. Not for this one action alone, anyway. The problem is that the whole system is fucked. We're going to need some heroes to fix it, and while Stark proved he's not the guy to do it, at least by his initial action it appears he's not going to stand in the way (a la Feinstein/Reid) when a real leader emerges.
It is very wrong that so many of you - whom I guess agreed with Stark when he called out Bush earlier (as I did as well) - now are turning on him just because he's wanting to move forward and not dwell on this. I'm all for a harsh condemnation of Pelosi, who indeed either lacks a spine or has right-wing sympathies herself. Also for the 5 Dem. backstabbers. But for Stark himself?
DON'T APOLOGIZE TO NOBODY.
If ANYTHING, Stark was slightly out of order by addressing the President, and not addressing the Speaker.
Whatever.
He owed no one an apology.
OK then. Time for a retro-active censure of Jean Schmidt, for personally calling John Murtha a coward.
whoops, that should have read Pelosi/Reid
BaScOmBe @ 96:
To be clear, Reid is the Senate. In this case, your anger would be more correctly applied to Pelosi and Hoyer.
Pelosi (202-225-4965)
Hoyer (202-225-4131)
Just sayin'...
Pelosi is an absolute failure.
wagonjak @ 3:
I'm extremely pissed at Nancy, b/c I feel she probably sat on this man until he cried "Uncle."
Disgusting. But will I be so disgusted as to not vote for a Democrat in '08 considering the alternative?
They're counting on that, Nancy & Co. They despise us progressives. They let us raise money for them, campaign for them and vote for them, and yet they despise us for expecting them to do what is courageous, right AND patriotic.
I believe that this is the rules clause involved:
Sent to Pelosi:
Dear Madame Speaker,
Please stop the madness. Please stand up for the CONSTITUTION. This is your job. We should not have to beg. You are ELECTED TO REPRESENT US and to swore to uphold the Constitution.
Impeachment is not a political act. It is a necessary tool that should _NEVER_ be "taken off the table" because it might be needed. In fact, it IS NEEDED NOW.
Perhaps it would perhaps be best if you would resign as Speaker and allow someone with more integrity to hold the position. It is too important for the U.S. to allow someone as ineffective as you have been to stand in the way of IMPEACHING WAR CRIMINALS.
Please do the right thing or get out of the way.
Pine Nut, NC @ 108:
Pelosi IS a progressive, the first progressive Speaker of the House i US history.
You are SO out to lunch on this. The rules of debate in the House are QUITE PLAIN.
The Starks apology was asinine. There was no reason for it. Did the Jews need to apologize to Germany after WW2?
Purge_not_Surge @ 110:
Impeachment is ENTIRELY a political act. It has no criminal component, and only removes on conviction.
YOU and me, and Speaker Pelosi, have 25 of 67 free votes needed for conviction in the Senate.
When that problem is overcome, impeachment is back on the table. UNTIL there are twenty, thirty, forty (count em) more free votes in the Senate, it will not remove the Bushco coup IN ANY CASE.
mrogi @ 112:
The Jews were not members of the House of Representatives who took an oath to uphold the rules.
werd123 @ 89:
Why is it stupid? It's a precise assessment of bush's sociopathic tendencies. Remember that bush is the one who enjoyed sticking firecrackers in the rectums of frogs and then lighting them, throwing them in the air and watching them explode, for his amusement. bush is the one who branded members of his fraternity, and I'm talking with a hot branding iron, on their buttocks. bush is the one who pumped his fist and yelled, "Feel good!" (yes, he said "feel,") when the bombs began dropping on Baghdad, a city where more than half of the population was under 15 years old.
People just don't like to hear the truth. So cover your virgin ears if it offends you.
I think what he said was borderline. I'm on the fence about it.
He should have just said that Bush can go Cheney himself, and shot the finger. They allow that.
I think we should organize a mail in campaign to send each and every Democrat in both houses of Congress a bunch of these. Include a little note that says 'You can use this until medical science gets to the point where they can implant a real one into you.' For about $3 it'd get the point across quite effectively I would think.
Nicole Belle @ 105:
INCORRECT. The person who is responsible for the rules is the Speaker.
Hoyer is not involved in such decisions, nor should he be.
And the RULES OF DEBATE are entirely clear on this issue, with CENTURIES of precedent.
Weaseldog @ 116:
That occured IN THE SENATE.
These are two separate bodies. How many people don't understand that?
BaScOmBe @ 93:
So true, only a small percentage saw the change and beat foot out before the Riechstag.
I expect the same will happen here.
Paul in LA @ 111:
If the rules were truly taken seriously, then Boehner would have enough violations to merit explusion. But, as the saying goes, "It's ok if you're a Republican".
Paul in LA @ 111:
It's not necessary to be insulting to a fellow progressive (if that's what you are), but might I note that while our current administration is packed with criminals who need to be impeached that you are quibbling about the House rules in this one instance of typical repube pissing and moaning?
I wonder how many times the character of Prez Clinton was impugned by repubes on the House and Senate floors without a subsequent censure motion.
Paul in LA @ 118:
Hoyer is the Majority Whip and in charge of "whipping" his party in line, something at which he has been an utter failure. I have spoken to Stark's office and he WAS told to apologize or his party--the majority party--would allow the Republicans to play this game and censure him.
Tell me, Paul, in your blind devotion to the Democratic party, do you think for one minute that if the parties were reversed and these were the days of Tom Delay as House Speaker we would have had the same result. I hardly think so.
My statement stands.
The only thing more repulsive than a man apologizing for speaking freely is the applause coming from that chamber of hypocrites.
Nearly every one of them should be removed from office and prosecuted for Constitutional crimes. Most have all contributed to the ongoing violating of the unalienable rights of "We the People"; and the have blood on their hands from their illegal occupation of Iraq. Nothing can wash the blood from their hands.
marbotty @ 101:
That's flatly FALSE.
The rules dictate, and the Speaker is charged to uphold the rules of debate, which BAR personal attacks and impugning of motives of ANY President or member of Congress.
He was 'pressured' by the recognition that he violated the House rules. He withdrew his statement like he is supposed to. IF he did not, then reprimand, censure, or removal are the remedies. By taking his own words down, he avoids all of that.
He showed respect for the House of Representatives. That was the CORRECT move.
btw, Paul in L.A., the time for civility has LONG passed, or haven't you noticed?
Watch out, Paul is here to derail us as fast as he can.
You are so good at it Paul, always on the threads in force to make your point known and shut down the debate as fast as possible.
Your name sticks out like that.
Publicus @ 124 "The only thing more repulsive than a man apologizing for speaking freely is the applause coming from that chamber of hypocrites."
“The freedom of speech in debate in the House of Representatives should never be denied or abridged, but freedom of speech in debate does not mean license to indulge in personal abuses or ridicule. The right of Members of the two Houses of Congress to criticize the official acts of the President and other executive officers is beyond question, but this right is subject to proper rules requiring decorum in debate.”
-Cannon’s Precedents, Volume 8, Section 2497
marbotty @ 101:
Every time a Dem backs down, the repubs are emboldened to shreek and wail louder at every petty slight they receive. Stark not only squandered our admiration, he made the Repubs stronger, and he also made the Dems feel OK about their spinelessness. Things are almost at a point now where a "veto-proof" majority of Dems would be an oxymoron. All Repubs have to do would be to shreek and wail to get their way. It's time the American public shreeked and wailed louder in the Dems other ear. They represent us, not the president, and not the republican party.
Symes @ 127:
Yeah, I'm a conspiracy of one.
You can't read the House Rules, or you don't care about them, that's YOUR defect, not mine.
JasonS @ 20:
That would be the reality. As George Carlin puts it "Politicians are put there to give you the illusion that you have a choice, you don't, you have owners, they own you."
Also, Paul, since you seem to be expert on the Rules of the House, if the censure resolution did not pass, was was Stark required to apologize? Was it necessary for him to do or say anything?
Pine Nut, NC @ 126:
The time for civility is FOREVER on the House floor. It's basic to participation.
And that is not a partisan issue, so I don't expect you to understand that.
The Speaker did her job, and the Representative took down his own words, as it is done. And if you redhots want to make cake out of that, you're simply showing how little respect you have for the comity of the House.
So "Go fuck yourself" was showing decorum?
This administration is not following ANY laws. . . when will they show some respect. When will they do what is CORRECT???
Impeachment and removal are the remedies. . .
willie @ 59:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I'm also a registered Independent.The Democrats have let their base down time and time again. They continue to allow the Republicans to bully them, when the majority of the American people are behind them. Now they're going to make a huge mistake and make Hilliary the nominee.
Paul in LA @ 130:
I can read them and already know them.
It is a matter of enforcement.
If one Party gets a free ride and the other must toe the line then the rules are no longer in effect.
Or hadn't that occured to you?
Excuse me!
Well, we've got to pay attention to this man's offensive words. Shouldn't pay attention to the deaths of thousands of American soldiers in an illegal war. Why, we certainly shouldn't be allowed to see pictures of flag-draped coffins.
This might actually put some people in touch with reality.
You know what? This is all crap to coverup the destruction of our Constitution, our unalienable rights, the bloody illegal war that is killing tens of thousands, and crimes committed by the President and his enablers.
These people are IGNORING and DEFLECTING ATTENTION from the fact that our government kidnaps people, sends the to secret prisons and tortures them.
Any answers to that?
Pine Nut, NC @ 132:
Censure is the result of violating the rules and refusing to follow the rules of the House. But the rules say "should," which leaves it up to the gentleman to withdraw his own words and avoid any sanctions. The purpose of the rules is to protect the comity of debate, and that very real purpose does not require censure -- it requires the representative taking down his words, as Rep. Stark did, as he "should" under the rules -- TO HIS CREDIT.
Paul in LA @ 133:
Um, yeah, um, republican congressmen have been the shining model of civility throughout the last six years.
Publicus is right. Solving serious issues like torture should trump the enforcement of unconstitutional "rules".
Symes@137:
Hear, hear!
Paul in LA @ 119:
I don't know everything.
There are no rules of decorum in the Senate?
I'm under the impression that the Congress is made up of two groups, the House and the Senate. I do not how they may differ in rules of decorum.
Symes @ 137 "I can read them and already know them.
It is a matter of enforcement. If one Party gets a free ride and the other must toe the line then the rules are no longer in effect. Or hadn't that occured to you?
If Speaker Hastert or Gingrich craps all over the rules, that's on them.
Speaker Pelosi has the duty to the House to uphold the rules, without regard to party, rank, or personal relationship.
You're condemning her for doing her job properly. Perhaps you would like a Speaker Hastert or Gingrich again. Then keep savaging her for following the rules.
You want chimpanzees throwing shit back and forth? The House is not a football game.
How come everytime a democrat stands up for something he inevitably backpeddles? I mean really, I was so happy when he said what he did, then he has to cave. I swear to god, if another Repuke is elected I'm going to go insane or move out of this once great country.
"Go back to bed, America, your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed America, your goverment is in control. Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!" Bill Hicks
Our government is truly broken, as no apology was necessary - no matter what that pedant from LA says.
The democratic leadership may as well be invertebrates. When was the last time a reupke apologized for anything?
Keep drinking the KoolAid, Congress. We may as well have the repukes win in 2008 - for all the good that came out of the 2006 change of senate and house control.
I am so disappointed in Mr. Stark. Guess the (R) and (D) neofascists got to him finally - after a long and distinguished career, maybe he should consider retirement.
Pelosi may have followed the rules on that part of her job, but I would hardly say that she is "doing her job". . .
So very predictable.
Evil Repukes and Ball-less Dems.
This country is a joke.
Weaseldog @ 143 "There are no rules of decorum in the Senate?...I do not how they may differ in rules of decorum."
The complexity enters in with the Fourthbranch bastard who broke the unstated rule of comportment IN THE SENATE.
Because the VP has Senate duties the situation is more complex.
• You can take that up with the Majority Leader of the Senate at the time, cat named Frist.
The House has a Speaker to uphold the rules, the House being a MUCH larger body of (in many cases) far less experienced participants. So the need for someone to uphold comity is more necessary in the House, which is why there is a Speaker.
Symes @ 137:
If we're gonna be a stickler for rules, I would just LOVE it if the Pres/VP, House & Senate would read, comprehend and uphold the Constitution! That would be just divine.
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