Elliot Spitzer says Lou Dobbs spreads venom and hate on CNN!
By John Amato Monday Oct 29, 2007 4:45pm
NY Governor Elliot Spitzer lashed out at CNN's resident immigration-man Lou Dobbs on "American Morning," and called out CNN for allowing him on the air. He's taking heat because he "wants to give driver’s licenses to undocumented immigrants, which of course makes him the devil."
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SPITZER: Look, I'm not going to demean myself by getting into a back and forth with somebody who on TV spews venom, hate and fundamental misinformation. Of course not. He knows it.
As I said, it's beneath me, it's beneath my office, to, in any way, involve myself with Lou Dobbs. And I think his knowing spread of venom is beneath CNN as well.
You can't say he had "no comment" about ole Lou. (h/t CNN's American Morning for the full transcript below the fold)
h/t CNN for the transcript:
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: There is some controversy swirling around New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, first for proposing a plan that would let illegal immigrants get driver's licenses. And then he changed the plan over the weekend, so now there's some new criticism from immigrant advocates who say it would unfairly target illegals.
New York Governor Eliot Spitzer joins be now to talk about it.
Thanks for being with us, first of all, Governor.
GOV. ELIOT SPITZER (D), NEW YORK: My pleasure. Good to be here.
CHETRY: So your original plan would have given illegal immigrants the same driver's license as everyone else. And that was highly criticized. In fact, 72 percent of New Yorkers polled said they were opposed to that plan.
Then you announced a new plan over the weekend. The editorial board of "The New York Times" called it caving.
So are you caving or are you just listening to the will of the people?
SPITZER: Well, in a way, neither. What we are trying to do, first of all, is address a problem that the federal government has created, which is that there are one million people here in New York state alone who are not here with proper documentation, but they're here.
We want security. We want our roads to be safe, which is the initial impetus behind letting them get a license so we know who they are, where they are. They can get insurance, everybody is safer.
Security experts agree with that premise. Seven other states do it.
That is the initial objective.
What we've tried to do is do it in a way that does not create a structure that makes them feel targeted, creates security. Now, what we did over the weekend was reach an agreement with the director of Homeland Security on a structure that he said would make the New York license among the most secure in the nation.
That is what we are trying to do, provide security, documentation, know who is here. And what we have accomplished, I believe, is a compromise that does all of those things.
CHETRY: Unfortunately, you're getting criticism from the other side now because the immigration advocates are saying that because this license that only illegals or undocumented would qualify for...
SPITZER: No. Can I interrupt for one second? Because that is a fundamental misconception. This is a license. One would be what we would call a Real ID license...
CHETRY: right.
SPITZER: ... that would satisfy the federal Real ID statute.
CHETRY: Which they can't qualify for if they're undocumented.
SPITZER: That's right, because they -- but another license that I would get that would be a New York state license that everybody would qualify for with documentation, but it would not be limited to illegal immigrants at all. It would...
CHETRY: Wait, hold on. You're saying you would get the one...
SPITZER: Absolutely.
CHETRY: ... that says right clearly on it, not for U.S. government use? That would be...
(CROSSTALK)
SPITZER: No, no, no, no, no. It would say not valid for federal ID.
And the reason is I have a passport, I have all sorts of other documentation.
The other one might cost more. It will be different, more difficult to get.
There will be two separate licenses. One that satisfies a federal Real ID statute, the other that doesn't. It would not be one license just for illegal immigrants.
CHETRY: So you disagree with the assertion that, hey, if you can get a license that clears you to go to Canada, that clears you to travel with ease, why wouldn't you get that one, as opposed to the one where only illegals would qualify for?
SPITZER: Many reasons. And that has been the record that has been established so far.
A Real ID license that people will get if they want to have perhaps an easier time at an airport. Another one if you already have a passport.
You will not need to pay the extra fees, et cetera. So, two separate licenses. Both valid, both legitimate.
CHETRY: Now, critics are calling the plan confusing and a bureaucratic nightmare. Is it practical to try to implement...
SPITZER: Sure it is.
CHETRY: ... three different licenses?
SPITZER: Sure it is.
CHETRY: And do you know how much it will cost?
SPITZER: It's really two. The third is for the Canadian border contact, something we call an enhanced driver license pursuant to the Western Hemisphere travel initiative, a very separate issue that is a very important step forward for the economy in Buffalo and along the Canadian border.
Really two. One, if you want to satisfy Real ID, another if you don't.
It is easy. DMV would have an easy time implementing this. The cost would be no greater than the cost of implementing Real ID anyway. And so that is going to be a federally imposed obligation on us, despite what we choose to do.
CHETRY: One of your most vocal opponents has of course been right here in the walls of CNN, Lou Dobbs. He actually went as far last week as to call you an idiot before apologizing for saying that on the air.
Let's hear what he said last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: I really don't care anymore about what this governor, this arrogant abuser of his office -- and the just absolute disdain with which he holds both the truth and the citizens of the state of New York. This man is sitting here putting together a three-tier system in which he is going to give voter registration privileges to people he knows are illegal?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Do illegal immigrants get voter registration privileges?
SPITZER: Look, I'm not going to demean myself by getting into a back and forth with somebody who on TV spews venom, hate and fundamental misinformation. Of course not. He knows it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with voting. This is something seven other states do for security.
The director of Homeland Security has said we improve security by knowing who is there. As I said, it's beneath me, it's beneath my office, to, in any way, involve myself with Lou Dobbs. And I think his knowing spread of venom is beneath CNN as well.
CHETRY: Now, so just that we're clear, though, if you're undocumented you will not be able to vote even if you do get this ID?
SPITZER: Of course not. Voting is limited to citizenship. This is getting a driver's license so we know who is driving so that fewer accidents and more security.
Security is what we are about. Understand, we got into 9/11 because people wanted to ignore the problem. We're not ignoring the problem of the million people here in New York. We're confronting it.
Confronting it by saying they're here, let's know who they are, give them licenses, let us forge a system that permits us to improve security, which is precisely what the federal government has said we would do. Seven other states have done it.
The sort of racist venom that has underlined much of the criticism I think is shameful because what we are really talking about here is security and how we run our society.
CHETRY: Governor Spitzer, I'm glad you came on our show and had a chance to share your side. We appreciate it.
Thanks for being with us.
SPITZER: Thanks. Thank you very much.
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bravo to the gov
I love Elliot Spitzer
Sorry but Dobbs is right on this. If you don't believe we're giving illegals too much slack, visit any other country on the globe.
Finally! A Dem willing to take Dobbs and his racist minions on!
let there be video...
Awesome.
I just don't understand why more dems don't trash the wingnuts and their apologists on a daily basis. It makes all the difference in the world.
What?
Helloooo.... "REAL ID"? Has everyone here missed the point of what he's trying to do? Pushing forward the "REAL ID" plan in this country is about 8000gazillion times more scary than any pissing match he's having with Lou Dobbs!
Lou Dobbs is the only person making any sense on this issue. Plus, why's it racist to report that the bank of America is giving accounts to illegal aliens without any identification?
"bravo to the gov"? brilliant. Let's see...
1.He conjures up 9/11 for the Drivers Licenses issue (most if not all hijackers had drivers licenses).
2.He says them having licenses will mean less accidents. (I'm sorry...what?)
3.He keeps refering to the 7 other states that have approved this, but not the many others that are refusing to participate in the Real ID Act as a violation of our Personal Liberties (not just Lou Dobbs).
4.He acts as though it is all about security (when it will do nothing for security) but what it WILL do, is create MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of NEW INSURANCE CUSTOMERS FOR THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY IN NEW YORK. (you know, the industry that paid so much money to help him get elected?).
5.The "Progressives" are on board with the BUSHCO and AEI guys. Why do you think that is? Human rights? or a steady flow of CHEAP LABOR to drive down wages (look at the real money income numbers over the past 6 years) and drive up PROFIT MARGINS. Hmmmm? Think someone is being used?
Dobbs has marginalized himself into a one-trick pony. He kowtows to Tancredo, Hunter, and other pathetic GOPers who pout hatred for Hispanics, because they share his view about illegal emigrants.
Elliot Spirtzer go home. Let Lou Dobbs Speak the Truth.
willyloman @ 9:
I was just glad the way he refused to let CNN frame the debate. You make many good points, guess I am not informed about this issue. However, I do think the REAL ID program is a scary prospect.
Holy Shcneikes! Regardless of how much I'd agree with him otherwise, I wish more people would so frankly call out the pundit class like this.
SPITZER: This is a license. One would be what we would call a Real ID license… that would satisfy the federal Real ID statute.
This license will end up serving as your passport to Mexico and Canada. Allowing for "free unrestricted travel" across borders. For us; for Mexicans; for Candians. Welcome to the North American Union... and you guys are all for it?
The more Lou Dobbs talks the more I'm for full amnesty and for adding a star to the flag to make Mexico the 51st state.
Lou Dobbs is one the most biased idiots with a TV show. He bases his show around one issue and then censors his guests on it--not letting them talk about the real effect of undocumented workers on the economy and on our society. Randi Rhodes did a good job of explaining all the things that she was never allowed to say and why she no longer appears on the show.
Dobbs twists facts and outright lies. He gives hours to non-issues like those boarder guards who are in jail. Then he puts up online "poll issues" that are written in a way to get 98% of voters to agree with him, which he always gets (something I doubt O'Lielly could get from his audience). He puts up this facade that all Americans agree with him, but, of course, if these workers were sent back, our economy and way of life would be drastically effected for the worse. But, "oh they're sucking up free healthcare and schooling and other benefits." Go meet with the migrant workers, observe their way of life--really study what they add to our society vs. what they take from it and Dobbs ends up looking like a racist, xenophobic fool.
Whew, bank tellers are going to love this.
Are we talking about the same Lou Dobbs here? The guy does NOTHING but rip on Bush and neocons, yet some here think he's one of them?
The guy is against illegal immigration. The guy cares about accountability and the average working American. I don't hear righties talking like him.
Give me a break guys. I usually agree with the majority of you 9 times out of 10. This one is too much. I like Spitzer but he's wrong on this.
I'm not much a fan of either man. However any National ID like "Real ID" is another nail in the coffin for Democracy.
The people in this country who are already here... you know... I don't want to see someone loaded up in a bus and shipped out.
But this completely open boarder thing will kill our ecom=nomy (whats left of it).
Kucinich has a good plan:
1.Border protection
2.repeal NAFTA
3. Unilateral trade agreements with Mexico that forces these companies to pay real living wages in Mexico, rather than .38 cents per hour.
That will help their economy and ours. The only people it will hurt are the CEOs who are currently making an average of 500 times what their workers are making...
I think that is the best way to deal with a bad situation.
Is there such thing as illegal capital? US corporations transfer capital back and forth across the US and Mexico (thanks to NAFTA) like they do between Illinois and Indiana. If you aren't willing to stop the free flow of capital you shouldn't think of doing the same to labor. Economists as far back as Adam Smith have said how immoral and wrong it would be. If you're on the right it's obviously not economically efficient, find me a SINGLE economists who says it is. If you're on the left it gives immoral advantage to capital (corporations) over labor (workers). Letting capital go across borders freely and holding back the flow of labor makes no sense on any level, other than emotional. If you are in favor of "free trade" there should be no such thing as a legal or illegal immigrant any more than there is such a thing as illegal capital. What I find interesting is the conservatives who are most in favor of “free trade” are the most outspoken against immigration of all kinds. If any of you had any guts you'd challenge you representative about their support for NAFTA, but you won't. You'll just bitch as Mexicans try to find a better life.
When I watching the interview this morning, I kept thinking here it comes, just wait.....and BINGO!!!
He pulled the race card and screamed racist. I'm sorry, but when is it racist to NOT give illegal aliens a drivers license. Since when is being concerned about you nations sovereignty racist???
When are people going to stop cowering when they hear the word racist?
I completely agree with Willyloman.
willyloman @ 9:
What's wrong with more money going into the insurance system so that my rates don't go up? So you'd rather get hit by an uninsured driver who you can't collect on (since you admit that they drive anyway)? That doesn't make sense.
What do undocumented workers get from a license that you are so scared about? It must simply be the sense of legitimacy because, in all other respects, New Yorkers benefit from having drivers on the road who are insured and who actually passed a US drivers test.
I'm listening to Dobbs now. He just ripped the Bush administration on toy safety and he also is against the war.
He also has Jack Cafferty come on and do those great rants.
GLA says: "...if these workers were sent back, our economy and way of life would be drastically effected for the worse."
and this is really the problem.
People think that some corporation is operating at COST and if the wages for the employees go up to a LIVING WAGE or even minimum wage, then they will charge more and we will pay.
The fact is that the market will bare what the market will bare and the only thing to be affected if you pay someone a honest wage, is the profit margins of the corporations.
and besides, I would rather pay a few more dollars for a product, than think it is being made in a sweat shop. Just look at what the GAP did this week.
Human @ 19:
Have to have One Nation State. None of this individualized drivers licenses and license plate stuff.
(My inner Cynic)
GLA says : "What’s wrong with more money going into the insurance system so that my rates don’t go up?"
Once again GLA is ONLY concerned about his pocketbook.
When we illegally invaded Iraq, they said "cheap gas"... where are the profits going?
You think insurance companies are going to pass on the savings.... or Pocket the Profit?
Trolls out in force, I see.
Lou Dobbs LIED AND PANDERED about "leprosy" and never apologized or corrected his knowing lies.
Gee, I wonder why that is.
Meanwhile, NOT ONE of the heroes trolling this thread have mentioned that Bushco is CURRENTLY allowing every Mexican semitrucker the free rein of the US.
They never seem to mention that. Because it's only fun to attack the poor -- actually attacking REPUBLICANS LIKE DOBBS for their inability to bite the hand that feeds them, that's off the table.
C'mon, Dobbs is a HE-RO. He attacks the poor with lies, calls them lepers, and ignores the semitruck (full of who knows what) which comes to his front door, having not been inspected by anyone. Our saviour!
The Populist @ 18:
He rips on both parties. If you really pay attention to his issues, he's more about getting loyal viewers and pretending to be a real populist, but he never supports politicians who are real populists. Because of his single focus on undocumented workers, many of the politicians that he is chummy with with are actually incumbent republicans (who, on labor issues and foreign policy, you'd think he be against if you took Dobbs at his word). Yah, Dobbs is really progressive.
The Populist @ 25:
Wow, if he wasn't a BIGOT, he'd be a great guy, eh?
willyloman @ 28:
Sure they pocket money. However, if you look at cities that have the highest insurance rates (like Detroit), you'll find that they have the highest number of uninsured drivers. It's an obvious correlation.
What many people fail to realize is that giving DLs to illegal immigrants will help the economy as it will reduce accidents by allowing them to be properly trained, more will take drivers ed. and road tests to get their license instead of driving without a license (assuming they've never had one at all, outside the US or inside). But, above all, this move will save the average New York tax payer hundreds of dollars as the insurance premiums drop. Remember, when an unlicensed, uninsured driver gets into an accident the insurance companies have very little recourse and they end up footing the bill. With illegal immigrants having DLs, the insurance companies have more information about the drivers involved, their bank accounts, where they live, how much property they own, etc. The only losers in this case are the racists and the xenophobes.
PS: If the 9/11 hijackers couldn't get DLs they would have traveled by train, bus or acquired fake licenses.
willyloman @ 20:
How?
justabill @ 15:
Right on! This xenophobic crap is out of control.
Spitzer does not have the guts to debate Dobbs.
Why?
Look at the polls, New Yorkers are on Dobbs side.
Jerry @ 22 "Since when is being concerned about you nations sovereignty racist???"
Since when did DLs have anything to do with sovereignty?
"When are people going to stop cowering when they hear the word racist?"
When Republicans come back to power in 2040.
Joe for Unity08 @ 3:
Ummm, touch of irony there "Joe for Unity"...
besides which, if every other country was fascist, does that we should be too?
It's funny how the immigration issue brings out the bigots who frequent C&L, but are against the war and against the fascism this country has adopted as of late. But, bring up immigrants, and the bigots come out of the woodwork.
The truth is that lou dobbs is the real coward and he knows it
Paul, do you object to the rights corporations now have thanks to NAFTA? I'm not saying you don't, but when I hear people on the right (not saying you are or aren't) complain about Mexican truckers and say nothing about US corporations and their connections to NAFTA I get angry. Americans have no real morals. They could care less about exploiting countries like Mexico, they simply want to rig it so they get a share of the exploitation and get mad when their politicians don't come through. Allow corporations to ship capital across borders? Sure, as long as we get a piece of that capital concentration and as long as only the "legals" are let through, who we say is ok. What a racket.
Look, Dobbs can talk all he wants about open borders. The fact is, he doesn't have a solution.
Spitzer is entirely right when he says Dobbs is "spewing venom." Illegal bashing gets ratings.
The fact is, Bush's government does nothing to attack the root of the so-called problem: the companies and individuals who hire illegals.
Economics 101 would tell you, where there's a demand, the supply will follow. If you create the demand for illegal labor, no amount of border security will stop the supply from flowing across the border.
Why don't they go after the companies that hire illegals? The farms that hire migrants? Because they are our bread and butter.
So all border security does is makes it extremely dangerous for our workforce to get to work. No skin off the corporations' noses.
I'llbeFrank @ 33:
What you might not realize is that NY gave out DLs without regard to citizenship for DECADES until the previous NY admin, which played the race card and the Nine-eleven card like they were nipple rings.
CA has also given out CDLs for a long, long time, without any downside other than the thought that maybe having to pass a driving test is a good idea. Only the unelected Austrian Goon was able to finger his nipple rings and, yah, try to turn the state into a stadt.
getalife @ 36:
Do you have a link to those "polls"?
Spitzer's already explained his stance regarding Dobbs and I admire him for standing up to Dobbs and his hatred and bigotry. Dobbs is a vile person errrr .....phlegm. No offense to phlegm.
Dang! Spitzer is good. I like the idea, and it makes sense. But the rightwingers are obviously going nuts over this because it's a policy that puts no brown people in jail, so it must be bad!
I'm a New Yorker - and I'm with Fitz on this.
@ 34 I'llbefrank says : "How?"
The truck drivers the guy above mentions is a good example. He is right. The North American Corridor is all about shipping and tarifis. Getting products moved around cheaper, for large corporations....
but ALSO to bring the products in from China or where ever, to the NON UNION ports and docks in Mexico, then put them on NON TEAMSTER trucks to ship them all oer the country.
Now, do you know any truck drivers or dock workers? Their jobs are going to either be lost, or they will be forced to work for much less in order to keep the shipments coming in.
Are they Super Rich? No, they are just MIDDLE CLASS people working everyday to provide for their families. Soon to be replaced or forced to live on much less.
Resturant industry wages down... Construction industry wages down... manufacturing... farming.... ect.
You think it will stop there? of course not. Been done in Chile... European Union... all kinds of places.
yo @ 41:
I oppose NAFTA and CAFTA. But my beef in this regard is the monitoring program -- which asserts that it inspects LESS THAN FIVE PERCENT of those trucks.
• IF we have to allow the trucks in, INSPECT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, and add that price to the goods.
People actually watch Lou Dobbs? Even if you actually agree with him on immigration how can you stand watching this poster child for monomania rant on and on about the same damn thing every day ad infinitem ad nauseum? It's amazing how many downright peculiar people have become "experts" and "authorities" simply because some apparently equally weird programming boss decided to put them on TV regularly.
goal @ 40:
Attacking the poor is one of the most cowardly acts there is.
Demonizing immigrants with false disease scaremongering is so despicable that Lou should be tarred and feathered and ridden around town on a rail.
You notice how alot of people will immediately throw out the "bigot" charge and the racist label, without really discussing the root of the problem.
Being concerned about national security does not make someone a "racist".
and maybe you should look into Dobb's home life before leveling that cliche charge.
getalife @ 36:
Huh. And why do you think that is?
Could it be because Dobbs has a soapbox every night for an hour shouting "illegals are ruining our country!"?
Why wouldn't it be popular, in a time of economic instability, to blame immigrants?
You don't think this continual drum beat affects polls?
Meanwhile, Spitzer gets the typical U.S. newsbite to explain why it makes sense.
willyloman @ 14:
Thanks for not sleeping.
willyloman @ 50 "Being concerned about national security does not make someone a "racist"."
Yes it does, and you are one too.
You can't talk about the semitrucks -- just not your issue. You're all about trolling hatred for immigrants.
Dobbs married a Latina. So it appears that if you will have sex with him, he'll look the other way about the LEPROSY.
Willy, do you care about workers in general or just US workers? How many workers have been screwed in Mexico by NAFTA as well? Did you morally object to their treatment? If not, a tear won't be shed in Mexico for US workers. If there's no solidarity across borders it's everyone for themself. The AFL CIO can be blamed for this as much as anyone. In the US they've fought for some good things. In other countries they work, many times with the NED and USAID, with the most reactionary, right wing elements to make sure workers in other countries are denied the same rights the AFL CIO are fighting for in this country. This is what "free trade" is. If you don't like it join the fight against it, don't just selectively pick and chose what parts you don't like based only on how it effects you.
getalife @ 36:
Live in New York before you say that... I doubt highly Lou Dobbs has a lot of fans in upstate even, let alone the city. The country just loves Rudy, until you ask an actual person who lives there.
CNN invited him on, not the other way around. Where the hell is Dobbs anyway if he's so big and bad?
willyloman @ 14 "This license will end up serving as your passport to Mexico and Canada."
Heh, that's funny, my CDL was ALWAYS a sufficient 'passport' for going to Mexico, until Bush seized power.
Now I have to use a passport, with a biometric strip.
Your claim about a one-nation state is HILARIOUS.
Paul says "You can’t talk about the semitrucks — just not your issue"
Please see comment 46 where I talk at length about the trucking industry and how this is affecting it.
"Yes it does, and you are one too."
and... of course... now I am a racist because.... what? Just because?
Vaden @ 39:
It's funny how you think anyone who demonizes fraudalent documents and people who use the system is a bigot.
OK--this is an opportunity for me to ask a question I have been wondering about for a long time. Just what is it about illegal aliens that progressives cannot resist supporting? Serious question. As far as I have been able to figure out, it might be:
1--If they do get the right to vote, they are unlikely to be Republicans, or
2--There is a misguided humanitarianism at work here, unaware of the fact that most of these people are here to be exploited as non-union low wage workers.
Please somebody, help me out on this. BTW, I am not a right wing troll. I consider myself to be a Scandinavian-style social democrat, but this one has me stumped.
Paul in LA @ 29:
Actually as a truck driver I have watched Dobbs talk about this quite often, as well as the selling of our highways to overseas companies. Dobbs isn't always right on everything he talks about (no one ever is) but at least he does talk about topics that actually hurt the middle class in this country. The dems need to quit sucking up to the mexicans just for votes about immigration. It's amazing how far some people drag the word racism to blanket every argument. Illegal immigration is killing a majority of middle class jobs in this country and all you "lefties" care about is not offending anyone. Wake up and see what's going on around you.
Vaden @ 44:
http://www.wnbc.com/news/14341745/detail.html?subid=10101421
72 % of New Yorkers oppose this stupid idea.
You can blame Dobbs all you want but he is for the people and bashes this administration everyday. Immigration is just one issue he attacks. China, free tade, Iraq, Iran, etc...
The bottom line is this is Congress's problem they will not solve.
yo says "Willy, do you care about workers in general or just US workers? How many workers have been screwed in Mexico by NAFTA as well? "
Please see comment # 20
where I stated Kucinich's Plan is a damn good one: unilateral trade to force companies to pay a good wage in Mexico and carefully monitor working conditions.here it is again...
1.Border protection
2.repeal NAFTA
3. Unilateral trade agreements with Mexico that forces these companies to pay real living wages in Mexico, rather than .38 cents per hour.
willyloman @ 57 "now I am a racist because.... what? Just because?"
Sorry, I confused you with Unity08 and the other trolls here.
"The people in this country who are already here… you know… I don’t want to see someone loaded up in a bus and shipped out."
Bravo for that.
OMFG! Someone who counts finally shoved that racist drivel up Dobb's ass! Money to him!
getalife @ 61 "72 % of New Yorkers oppose this stupid idea."
A supposedly stupid idea that was law in New York for decades before Pataki made it unallowed.
So you're suggesting that until Pataki NYers were stupid?
72% might agree NYers are stupid, but that doesn't make Pataki's idiotic hatemongering policy correct.
Paul in LA @ 65:
Huh, this is a new proposal.
getalife @ 61:
Worry about your own state and your own governors!
Deport Lou!
Whitey @ 60 "The dems need to quit sucking up to the mexicans just for votes about immigration. It's amazing how far some people drag the word racism to blanket every argument."
Most of you cats ARE racists.
There are two kinds of racists: those who are out, and those who hide in the closet (or in their cab), and only let the hatred slip out in various phrases.
You watch Lou Dobbs? Then WHEN DID HE REPUDIATE THE LEPROSY BULLSHIT? Ever?
He's a racist, regardless of his populism. Btw, "populism" has TRADITIONALLY involved virulent racism and hatemongering.
Why bother being a Republican if you don't want to be a racist?
Gary, this one "has you stumped" because the Democrats have decided to garner the voting block by embracing this issue as one of Humanitarian Concerns...
when the reality is exactly what you said... people are forced by sub-human wages in Mexico (created by NAFTA and US companies moving down there to pay nothing in wages) to walk up here for starvation wages!
This brings the standard of living down for everyone... Except Walmart and the CEO Class.
Well, guess what? Bill C signed NAFTA and Hillary was on Walmart's Board of Directors.
It ain't just the Republicans cashing the big checks.
This proposal is voter fraud and will take professional driving jobs away from New Yorkers and give these jobs to illlegal immigrants.
Geez.
L.A. Confidential @ 27:
"Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
'course this like other parts of the Constitution are violated by Congress and the Executive are violated on a daily basis.
Peace
Gary @ 8:
And my daughter tried to open an account when she was in High school and 18 years old. Because she lived with me and the utilities were in my name and all she had was a high school ID with her picture on it, even with a birth certificate she was denied and My father was born here, I was born here and of course so was my daughter. Looks like the only ones who will have a difficult time opening any accounts is the US Citizen!
AND, Dobbs is fairly BUG-EYED over the whole episode...because he is "alien obsessed" and trying to make his own name over this issue...believe me if he would rationally pursue his legitimate positions and have actual CONVERSATIONS with people perhaps he could do some good...now calling Spitzer "PRINCE ELLIOT"...so mature...
I have to agree with Lou on this one. Take a fraction of the budget spent on
the Iraq war, and build a manned wall using the Army as the armed guards. Dig a moat and stock it with alligators, for God's sake! If the Chinese could build their wall and Hadrian could build his, (by hand, I might add) surely we can secure our borders. Then, we make anchor-babies illegal back to 1989, and start the roundup.
While doing that, we fine and jail employers using illegal underpaid labor to pay for the processing and deportation of the millions.
In all seriousness, folks, I legally immigrated to Canada years ago, paid my dues, jumped through the hoops, and did it right. My girlfriend immigrated to the U.S. from Ireland a couple years ago, legally, paying her dues and jumping through the hoops. Do you people with the bleeding hearts for the "poor illegals" understand how the rest of us who followed the rules feel when you want to just ignore the laws and regulations we all so slavishly followed to proudly become citizens of our adopted countries??? Please, i am as liberal as they come on most issues, but this is insane.
Why can't the Immigration and Naturalization Agency just round up every last illegal alien protesting at their marches and take them all to the airports and ship them HOME!?! Congress and Bush are tripping over their dicks trying to make these people legal to try and be the first ones to get their votes, and THAT is why the will of the people will NEVER be heard on this issue. If you don't believe that, take a look at the gyrations politicians go through to court a few hundred thousand Cuban immigrant votes in South Florida. That is the exact reason we don't have normal relations with Cuba to this day. It has nothing to do with all the foo-fah about communism or human rights violations. It is about carrying South Florida in elections. Wow. What a bunch of loosely connected rants. Oh, well, TTFN.
Boy this head cold got me writing in circles. I meant to write violated once. 'Course maybe it's because I feel so uhm....
This is a hard issue, because at it's heart are people just trying to make a living.
I will repeat what I said earlier... we need to repeal NAFTA and have a unilateral trade agreement with Mexico to provide fair wages in Mexico and decent working conditions.
We need to stand by our Teamsters and say no to allowing Mexican Over the Road drivers to run their trucks on our soil.
And we need to find some way to allow people who are already here to come out of the shaddows and become legal, in time, so that they can earn what should be a fair wage in the States for their work.
And we need to limit the corporate greed in this country. Is that all? simple, right?
The hell with Dobbs and his lapel flag. I'm so sick of the jingoism and nationalism that have infected this country since 9/11 ...
Will I ever get to hear "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" at a World Series game again? Or will it always and forever be the mawkish, treacly (and offensive to nonbelievers) "God Bless America"? Complete with war toys and huge flags and all sorts of religious/military pageantry?
It's amazing just how much we've lost.
Lou Dobbs has it right.
Eddybaby @ 75:
Michelle Malkin is that you?
Gary @ 59 "Just what is it about illegal aliens that progressives cannot resist supporting?"
That's fairly easy. Choose from this list:
• Undocumented aliens are generally NOT a major crime problem.
• Many undocumented aliens from the southern border do NOT want to live in the United States. Closing the borders has simply made the problem worse.
• Most undocumented aliens are TRYING to get legal documentation, but the INS is biased to the rich, and keeps ordinary people who deserve documentation waiting for a decade or more.
• Rich people get into the US without delay. They are no more deserving than working poor.
• NAFTA (and CAFTA) destroyed the economy of Northern Mexico. Allowing uncontrolled exports of agricultural products destroyed the agricultural base of N. Mex. Thousand of farmers lost their livelihood, and many of those have been FORCED to move North to try to feed their families.
• Immigration has ALWAYS been the American way. But blocking the delivery of papers via the INS has been the prefered way of maintaining WHITE status quo in Texas and other border states.
• Republicans hatemonger against immigrants every chance they get. It's basically unfair and cowardly, and most Americans, while they have been driven from the label, ARE liberals, and consider such behavior unamerican.
• Those of us in border states have had many dealings with undocumented aliens, and with those experiences has come respect for hardworking values.
• The southern border has ALWAYS been porous to Latinos, because the culture is actually not divided by the border. The border divides the culture, something that bigots refuse to notice.
• Republicans are so corrupt, why should we start with the poor, who can't defend themselves? If we are going to solve all our longterm problems TODAY, let's start with retaxing the rich for their wars, and reprosecuting them for their massive white collar crimes, which are FAR worse than ANYTHING having to do with immigration.
I can go on, but that's a starter.
Most Americans are on Dobbs side of the issue. It's not about race. It's about preserving American jobs and wages.
The democrats are considering giving Bush more money for his war.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071030/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq;_ylt=AnocC08v4f3...
My bad Willy, I read through most but not all comments. I think, if Mexican and American workers are to be paid fair wages, deeper changes need to occur. Is it possible with corporations being the dominant economic institution (ie should be replace the corporate form with something better and not so outdated)? Is it possible if American corporate law doesn't undergo a fundamental change? Should the (gulp) means of production become an issue again? If you take these problems to their logical end these questions arise.
The European Union took 50 years of work to get pushed through... and the way they did it was under the guise of "trade agreements"...
The North American Union will be the same... it's now called the Seurity and Prosperity Partnership... and they are drawing up plans, jointly, for trade, policing, travel, IDs, all sorts of things.
It is something that we have to think about. Because it is only designed to make more money for the corporate elite. and nothing else.
getalife @ 71:
It's not voter fraud. That's flatly wrong. That's what happens when people have no idea what they're talking about.
It won't take jobs from "professional" drivers because to get paid illegal immigrants would have to have a bank account, a social security card, and have a work permit otherwise whoever hires them will not be able to ensure them, file taxes or give them worker's comp, should the need arise.
Try thinking things through next time, instead of spreading more disinformation. Employers will actually find hiring "illegal" drivers a liability and a financial burden. It's not as simple as "hey these immigrants will take our jobs because they'll work for less".
Well Mark, most Mexicans resent the power Americans have given to US corporations and the effects this has had on their country. Their own government, which has supported NAFTA, released a report recently stating that the environmental effects of NAFTA has been about 36-37 billion a year (air & water pollution, soil erosion amongst other things going through the roof) while the benefits (which are highly concentrated) amount to about 14 billion a year. Saying you simply want to preserve American jobs and wages is not, objectively, a good argument. Saying you want to protect workers in both countries is. If you want to simply change NAFTA enough to protect the American middle class you're still wrong.
yo says:
"I think, if Mexican and American workers are to be paid fair wages, deeper changes need to occur."
I agree completely. To be competitive on the global Market, we don't need to sink to the lowest common denominator as this Savage Capitalist Model would have us believe...
We need to bring the other countries up to a decent living wage and working condition.
I just read "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein. Brilliant. I strongly recomend it.
This Freidman Free-Market theory is crushing our country and all the others it touches. We need to bring back a Kaynesian approach to economic ethics.
SILENCE BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN???? ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME? WHAT ABOUT THE MSM CENSORING A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE!?
sad day in America
MSNBC has decided to censor Mike Gravel
Americans are terrified of a 'National ID card' yet that's exactly how they treat a Driver License.
A Driver License should be a document that indicates who you are and that you have the qualifications to operate a motor vehicle. Anythinh else at the risk of those who require it for identification purposes.
I would accede that there could be an indicator on the license to indicate if the holder has presented proof of citizenship when it was issued, and there should be some mechanism that allows re-issuance if proof is presenmted at a later time.
But a Driver License should be what it is issued for.
Paul in LA @ 81:
That's a best-case scenario. One of my co-workers immigrated to the U.S. in 1986. He didn't get his citizenship until last year, 2006.
I have to agree with Lou on this one. To be a nation we must control our boarders. His comments are not racist; they are nationalist and I see nothing wrong with that. Even with Bush as President, I thank God every day I was born in America.
Tell me another developed country in the world that would allow 12 million Americans to wonder around without documentation. If you can name one then just maybe I will change my mind.
Mark @ 82:
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
No, Looofa, I am not Malkin, and you don't have to resort to name calling.
All I say is that we do not need illegal labor. We have plenty of people to do each and every job an illegal does, and I guarantee that those jobs would be filled immediately if the pay was fair and the workplace protected. We do not need over crowded schools forcing half the class to sit idle while the other half learns the lesson in Spanish/English, (and honestly, nobody learns a thing in those situations). We don't need beggars looking for work but unable to speak the language on every street corner. We don't need greedy employers exploiting ignorant, desperate people with unfair wages and hours, we don't need people working for cash and not paying their share of the tax burden, we don't need gangs from Latin America and Asia and Russia infiltrating our nation and ruling our inner city streets.
We need to honor the LEGAL immigrants who have followed the rules and immigrated legally to become proud Americans. I actually WENT to a naturalization process to see a loved one become a U.S. citizen. She did so with several thousand others from all over the world. You'd think that a service that large would be so impersonal and cold that it would be meaningless, but you should have seen the faces of each NEW AMERICAN as he or she marched out of the convention center in downtown L.A. waving their little American flags, laughing, and yes, some with the proudest tears and smiles I have ever seen on a human face were in that crowd. Blanket amnesty dishonors these decent honest people and their efforts to "do the right thing."
This is a losing issue for Spitzer. What's with Democratic New York Governors that have so much promise yet end up imploding?
Verum @ 92:
Has Lou Dobbs ever covered illegal Canadian immigration?
I don't know if thinking of things on how competitive or not a policy might make the American worker is the right way to look at it. The US is currently in a more dominant position than most other countries. China will be in that position in the future, maybe even overtaking us. If the US competes with the developing world how is the developing world every supposed to develop? It's not the US', Western Europe's or Japan's interest to share technology or give financial assistance (not exploitive loans, but low interest no austere strings attached loans) in order for them to compete on the same level is it? That's like asking Britain in the 19th century, who believed in competition as well, to voluntarily give up their access to cotton because it was the right thing to do. Cooperation and solidarity has to come into play or it will be more of the same. If you have a moral objection to economic exploitation and think what countries like ours have done to the developing world is wrong, thinking of economic in terms of global competitiveness won't really change much of anything. It won’t change the power structure, the differences in wealth, poverty or immigration.
As Willyloman, Yo and PIL have clarified, the problem is NOT the immigrants, but the policies. Dobbs should know this. But he gets his ratings from the fearmongering. Just like the other pundits.
Eddy, again, is there such thing as illegal capital? What justification can you give to allow corporations to ship capital across borders and then hold back the flow of labor? What would you think if a corporation could ship capital from your state to the state that borders you but a law was passed that you couldn't try to find a job in that state? That's what you're allowing US and Mexican corporations to do and that's what you're saying to Mexican workers. Either you treat capital and labor on equal terms (as far as the rights to cross borders freely) or you scrap the whole system and try something different. What Americans want, as usual, is to have their cake and eat it too.
yo @ 99:
Well, honestly, if I was Dictator, (and that is what I'd be), I'd insist that the jobs and manufacturing be brought home, and return to a protected economy. I have lost jobs to foreign labor over the years, and i do not want that to ever happen to anyone. I also do not want illegals to come in and take whatever jobs are left to pick over.
We don't get these shows on CNN International-- thank gawd. Homespun American news-- egad-- does it get any trashier?? (No, it doesn't.) Anyway, they should get rid of Tom Foremen, Wolf, and a bunch of others too, but what are the chances? CNN is no better than Fux many times (but is a bit better, still.)
I am vehemently against the neo-cons, Bush, republicans and the war in Iraq. But Lou Dobbs is absolutely right about this. In no way can rewarding illegal immigration be allowed. This is not about security, 9/11, or xenophobia; this is just common sense.
more at my blog...
I agree with Dobbs on this one, too. Giving illegals a drivers license is potentially worth tens of millions of dollars (and almost as many illegal voters) to the state.
Che's Lounge says:
"As Willyloman, Yo and PIL have clarified, the problem is NOT the immigrants, but the policies."
I agree. I havn't seen old Lou talking for awhile, but he used to talk about the bush administration handing over the soveregnty of this country to the globalists. And that the "illegals" situation was just a symptom of the problem.
Has that really changed for him? He even refered to the CFR once... they must have shut him up quick on that one.
Eddybaby - you are not considering a few things:
Be careful of what you wish for. If farmers start paying $12 - $15 [or more] for what they are now getting for about $5, and the same goes for unskilled work all over, like restaurants, landscaping, construction, simple day labor, etc. prices will go sky-high, more than offset what illegals are not now paying in taxes, at least those that don't.
Have you thought about how long it takes for a Mexican to come into this country legally? The waiting list is more than 12 years, and there are financial requirements including a sponsor to be accountable to assure that the immigrant des not become a burden on the US Government.
These people are poor, they want to work, now, not in 12 years.
Danny @ 86:
Try thinking.
Illegal immigrants voting with this license is not voter fraud?
Do tell.
This license will get them hired legally and wages will drop.
Look at the the drywall wage drop and other construction jobs .
Geez.
Mark @ 82:
Dobbs kicks up a good dust storm around protecting American jobs and wages. But I've never seen him do an investigative report on the massive corporations and agribusinesses HIRING the millions of illegal and migrant workers.
And does he have anything to say about Wal-Mart replacing high-paying local jobs with low-paying jobs? (Pin dropping.)
Has he ever once tried to explain why exactly WTO protesters are protesting (TO PROTECT JOBS IN THEIR COUNTRIES AND COMMUNITIES)? Dobbs' sole explanation? "They're anarchists! Look at them break things! Look at this footage of police arresting them! Lousy anarchists!"
Look, any of you out there who don't get that Dobbs is another corporate shill for BIG BUSINESS are just corporate media drones.
Just keep watching big brother. He will tell you what to be upset about.
GLA @ 24:
Is that test in Enlish or Spanish?? And yes by all means....lower rates are so much better than being invaded by an unseen, undocumented ARMY.
I can't wait until Elliot Spitzer runs for President! He has my vote. He is so refreshingly honest and doesn't play the horseshit game that all of the politicos and pundits LOVE to play.
To the "sky high prices" argument, people are only going to be able to pay so much. If the coporate farm that used to pay 5 dollars per hour now has to pay 12 per hour, yea the price will go up.
But! People aren't going to pay 16 dollars for an apple... so... the difference will come mainly from the coporate farm's PROFIT margin.
Same is true for everything else. There will be some higher prices... but in the end, isn't that ok if you know that the crops aren't being picked by endentured servants? or people living in slave wage conditions?
what are the priorities of this nation? What do we value? Human rights? or cheap apples?
1) lou dumbs was pantsed on 60minutes for his projectile vomiting of hateful falsehoods, so his hateful racist views on immigration are on record.
2) spitzer called dobbs on dobbs' own racism on his own network and did so in a manner which forced the questioner to simply acknowledge spitzer's fact-based position.
3) Spitzer didn't back down like federal officials. He has no record of cowardice like the congress and senate.
4) Spitzer appears to have 'changed his mind', which means he had to be convinced that the solutions were workable and supported by situation and context. Again, this is smart and shows more political courage than any federal official.
Eddy I'm sorry to hear you lost your job, I know it can be tough. I also know that countries have only developed by doing as you've said, without exception. That is, keeping capital flowing within the country and allowing an industrial base (with the finite amount of metals in the world, not every country can have one) to form. None of that would be needed of course if some of the fundamental changes I talked about above came into play.
ronhohn, I hear what you said often and I don't think it's a good argument. Financial inflation has been, and will always be, the effect of "free trade". Capital is accumulated which according to Says law and Adam Smith (written at a time when the world was completely different) that savings turns into productive investment. That isn't the case though. There has been an explosion in the financial markets relative to actual resources or products in the last few decades. The financial markets have completely lost touch with underlying value. The problem is the financial markets themselves and the monetary system. Both have to continuously grow and grow or else recession or depressions occur. There's always problems with various forms of inflation as a result, its really about picking the least harmful one. It doesn't mean the current system has to stay in place, like the Fed and fractional reserve banking can be repleaced, but if you have it as is inflation will be there regardless.
PS I forgot GLEN BECK. Two thumbs down. Whoever hired him must be on glue. And about American news, maybe you're used to it, but as an outsider, I can't put my finger on it-- not exactly, but it's the lights, the music, the announcers, the stories, the babettes, the old-time local network guys, it's a whole lotta weirdness. (I grew up with steady access to Buffalo news-- tee hee, what a joke!!!)
bamboozeled: yes and yes. Dobbs understands (as did Aristotle) that a free nation needs a strong middle class.
"Big Brother" is for taking away your freedoms here as they have been taken away in Mexico.
bamboozled @ 107:
I can see you do not watch his show.
He has covered Wal-Mart and agriculture.
His biggest issue is China.
He covers many stories the MSM will not.
I doubt most people posting even watch his show.
ronhohn @ 105:
Hey why don't we just bring back slavery? Your argument is specious.
I gotta feed the animals.
I wrote this about how to remove Pelosi from the Speaker seat in the house so that we can Impeach Cheney and Bush after replacing her with a Democrat with some guts.
House Rules IX is the legal means. Have a read, and let me know what you think. I don't guess we have much time. I enjoyed this chat.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/how-to-declare-the-speaker-se...
Spitzer's a smart cookie. This guy knows what he's doing. It puts names and faces in a database that already exists (legally), instead of the administration trumpeting Chertoff's non-action.
I hope this guy runs for president one day.
Dobbs is a moron. 50 bucks says he has an illegal immigrant cleaning his house twice a week.
ronhohn @ 105:
Sorry, but "Cry me a river..." I don't care how long they have to wait to come here legally. If they want to come, let them apply and wait. Also, it does not take as long as you say. I know people who gained citizenship in less than two years, and they were UNEMPLOYED when doing so.
I don't care if they are poor and just want to work. My job hangs by a thread every day due to sending work overseas. I too "just want to work" and doggone it, I would work at ANY job to feed my family. I only ask for a legal wage and the protections of my government that I have earned. I know that if you paid and protected workers fairly you'd have a better society, and prices would NOT be any higher. Remember, I lived and worked (and immigrated HONESTLY) to Canada. They do not have the problem of this insane level of illegal immigration, yet for some reason we paid pretty close to the same prices for our goods there as we do here. Oh, there were some anomalies like gas, booze and cigarettes, but by and large, prices were not that different. No, all things would even out, and I can never accept ANY illegal alien as "someone who just wants to work." Sorry, you have the word immigrant prefixed by the word ILLEGAL, and that says it all. We are not talking about refugees, we are not talking about legal people, we are talking about criminals. I know, it isn't like they have killed someone, but, to sneak in ILLEGALLY is to break the law, and enter the criminal class, and they should be dealt with as such.
By the way, I live in L.A. and have a locally born and bred LEGAL Hispanic gardener, and he charges no more than the illegal ones do down the street. I just don't accept that the change would be so great for us natural citizens if we ended illegal immigration...except that there would be a lot more jobs available for young people and poor people who need them and cannot get them now because of all the illegal labor.
David @ 11:
David, go home. Here's directions --> wingnutville
The Populist @ 18:
It's that Dobbs goes after the wrong people. If there are no jobs because of the legal ramifications are too high for hiring...illegals wouldn't get work. If you believe it just guys picking fruit and women making beds that are getting all the work you're nuts. There are far fewer people hiring illegals that there are illegals working. If the only way someone could get a job in this country was to be documented, they would go through that process. It's too damn simple.
Mark @ 82:
Most Americans don't have any idea that Dobbs exists, and most don't accept the idea that hatemongering is something about their interests.
Verum @ 92:
nazis were 'nationalist', too!
"Dobbs is rascist"... "Lou Dumbs".....is “alien obsessed” ......wow, my fellow Dems sure can be really stupid and blind on a major issue. Perhaps this is why Neocons busted up unions so easily, with "armchair activists" like these Dems, we really need a new party to try and rebuild the middle class, and not a bunch of hack weekend democrats who can't tell when their own issue is being used to kick them in the ass by the Republicans/corporations. Learn why the unions were created morons.
Paul in LA @ 122:
For christ's sake - being against ILLEGAL immigration is NOT hatemongering! My father was an immigrant to this country, like millions of others, who came here legally. That's the way to do it - obey the laws. Being opposed to illegal immigrants does not equal being opposed to immigrants. Stop trying to equate the two.
getalife @ 115:
I can see you do not watch his show.
He has covered Wal-Mart and agriculture.
His biggest issue is China.
He covers many stories the MSM will not.
I doubt most people posting even watch his show.
I used to watch Lou Dobbs quite a bit, but despite his rhetoric on these issues, his blame is typically misplaced (as with the immigration issue).
Why does he have an issue with immigrants, when the corporations that are unregulated by the government continue to create the market for them?
Has he ever done a stroll through a right-wing (or any) neighborhood in Southern California to see how many wealthy people hire illegals to mow their lawns and nanny their kids? You could throw a rock and hit one.
Why doesn't he ever explore what kicking out millions of undocumented workers would do to the price of a head of lettuce?
Why does he have a problem with immigrants and not the government who does precisely what he does, talking tough on immigration while knowing damn well the problem is not with borders or immigrants, but with the people who hire them?
Why does he have a problem with China and not the American companies that outsource to China (and India, and Indonesia, and Pakistan, etc., etc.) or the government who facilitates their outsourcing or the stupid Americans who won't spend an extra buck to buy American?
His arguments are as shallow, infantile and uninformed as his investigations into the problems.
And if you want to know why, it's CNN's bottom line. Even if they had any money to hire investigative reporters, they wouldn't investigate anything for fear of losing sponsors.
So what's easier: spout lazy opinions like an old man on a couch.
I was watching CNN tonight at the gym right before 6PM, and Lou Dobbs was on Wolfie's show just spewing venom. At 6PM I turned to Animal Planet to watch the crocodile guy. The Crocks were more civil than Dobbs. He's a DICK.
bamboozled @ 126:
I used to watch Lou Dobbs quite a bit, but despite his rhetoric on these issues, his blame is typically misplaced (as with the immigration issue).
Why does he have an issue with immigrants, when the corporations that are unregulated by the government continue to create the market for them?
Has he ever done a stroll through a right-wing (or any) neighborhood in Southern California to see how many wealthy people hire illegals to mow their lawns and nanny their kids? You could throw a rock and hit one.
Why doesn't he ever explore what kicking out millions of undocumented workers would do to the price of a head of lettuce?
Why does he have a problem with immigrants and not the government who does precisely what he does, talking tough on immigration while knowing damn well the problem is not with borders or immigrants, but with the people who hire them?
Why does he have a problem with China and not the American companies that outsource to China (and India, and Indonesia, and Pakistan, etc., etc.) or the government who facilitates their outsourcing or the stupid Americans who won't spend an extra buck to buy American?
His arguments are as shallow, infantile and uninformed as his investigations into the problems.
And if you want to know why, it's CNN's bottom line. Even if they had any money to hire investigative reporters, they wouldn't investigate anything for fear of losing sponsors.
So what's easier: spout lazy opinions like an old man on a couch.
You should tune back in because if you watch those questions are addressed.
His reporters are very good and do a good job.
He is Independent so he will attack the dems and some can't handle that even though they deserve it.
I watch him and KO everyday because they tell it like it is.
getalife @ 106:
Spitzer said there will be TWO types of licenses. They can't vote with it if it has red markings all over it that say, "NOT VALID FOR VOTING" or something like that.
"This license will get them hired legally and wages will drop."
NO. It doesn't work that way. Licenses will not get them hired legally. I've already explained why.
Dobbs is a classic example of the broken clock that is correct twice each day. He is still a neo con into free global markets at the expense of the working class. His fight for the middle class is nothing but a charade. He doesn't even realize that he contradicts himself on every show.
ABCGroup @ 91 "One of my co-workers immigrated to the U.S. in 1986. He didn't get his citizenship until last year, 2006."
I know many such cases. Here in LA, the INS line used to stretch for three blocks. That wasn't because there were so many people trying to apply. This was THE SAME PEOPLE, day after day, like something out of Kafka.
One of my close friends is East-Indian. He has patiently awaited his papers now for fourteen years. He was eligible on arrival (due to his expertise), but the INS/ICE apparently doesn't like the color of his skin. He pays taxes, SS, always has, and is very proud of living in America. He would make an EXCELLENT citizen.
Compare to Posada Carriles, the airline bomber, who Bush is harboring and protecting from prosecution. Put a bootprint on the back of Carriles' pants (kick hard, he deserves it), and let my friend who has not murdered nearly 100 people in a plane bombing get his documents.
Che's Lounge @ 130:
Hey, Cheez, how's it going?
Lou Dobbs also perenially ignores the fact that Arnold Schwarzenegger came to the US as a tourist, worked illegally on his tourist visa, PAID ZERO TAXES OR SS, failed to get a drivers licence for twenty years, and was a participant in the ENRON/Reliant energy ripoff, and subsequent events.
What's the matter, Lou? His skin not brown enough for your abuse?
DaveTheAngryRhodeIslander @ 125 "For christ's sake - being against ILLEGAL immigration is NOT hatemongering!"
It is when you HATEMONGER doing it.
"My father was an immigrant to this country, like millions of others, who came here legally. That's the way to do it - obey the laws."
Haven't you heard? If you're rich, you don't have to follow any laws.
Not even a FAIRNESS DOCTRINE.
I'm guessing your father wasn't Latino.
scott @ 124 "Dobbs is rascist"
Dobbs IS racist. There is no better name for someone who hatemongers that immigrants are lepers.
PERIOD. It's not even a tough case.
Dobbs is "not a wingnut", but sure sounds like one when he keeps running his mouth about illegal immigration as if it's the downfall of the country. The same crap has been said over and over for the 200+ years this country has been around. Bottom line: there will always be immigrants, illegal and legal, but mostly illegal. There's no other way these people can stay here besides "sneaking in", getting a job and creating some type of life, good or bad.
Sure, what Spitzer is doing seems extreme, but critics should give the guy some credit for working within a data gathering system that already exists, instead of asking Congress/the administration for money to create some type of security, etc.
Sooner or later this is going to happen, whether it's a Repug or a Dem.
lou dobbs ONLY makes sense to racist xenophobes and other hate groups period. :)
Eddybaby @ 119 "I know people who gained citizenship in less than two years, and they were UNEMPLOYED when doing so."
What a liar.
"Not everyone, however, is eligible to become a naturalized U.S. citizen. A person must meet certain requirements:
Be at least 18 years old
A lawful permanent resident for five years"
When Lou Dobbs' face melts off because of Global Warming, he'll squeak through his ventilator tube, "I guess attacking Mexicans for 40 years really wasn't the point of life."
ZappaFrank @ 135 "Sooner or later this is going to happen, whether it's a Repug or a Dem."
No, Zap, the truth is that NY has given DL to all residents going back decades. Gov. Pataki (R) changed that to hatemonger the immigrants, and Gov. Spitzer is just putting it back the way it was.
(well, he is fiddling with it, but it's not a new practice in NY).
Danny @ 129:
We agree to disagree but the dem debate is on, so thanks for the civil discussion.
Eddybby:
I was not endorsing anything, I was stating what the present conditions are.
Let me ask you something else. If you were in the market for, let's say a refrigerator, and there are two, equal in quality and size, etc., one sells for $400.00 the other for $800.00 which one would you buy?
My solution is something else:
1. We should control borders
2. We should document those here and working and give them a permit for a time period. No citizenship included, no Social Security rights.
3. Open a separate line for immigrant workers. They would pay taxes. Soc Sec would help to defray any medical expenses if uninsured, but no retirement benefits.
4. Encourage US companies to bring their 'exported jobs' back to North America and take them to Mexico and Central America. This should create more jobs there.
5. Get rid of the religious freaks and promote birth control in countries who have a rapidly rising population.
lou dobbs IS a racist xenophobic bastard. That's why i don't watch his show. He spews nothing but hate for Latinos. He caters to the kkk and the minutemen.
At least we're now talking more about Dobbs! He's gotten away with his one-dimensional rants long enough and needs to be called on it. Using the LEGAL argument to defend him misses the point entirely. He's a Rethuglican whatever his claimed independent status. He's gotten otherwise sane people all lathered up with hate.
Good for Spitzer for calling him out. Sure he makes negative comments about BushCo but he always balances that with a snarky swipe at the Dems. He's a menace and is no more credible than Bill O'Reilly. He is CNN's O'Reilly. And I agree that he's defining himself for what he is day by day. The problem is he's dumbing down many thousands as well.
willyloman @ 117 "I wrote this about how to remove Pelosi from the Speaker seat"
What a waste of time. Your priveleged resolution will last exactly five minutes.
Speaker Pelosi is not guaranteed the Speaker's seat in 2009 in any case. The new House will vote for Speaker as they always do.
Speaker Pelosi was elected unaminously. She has huge support by the Progressive Caucus. My quick review of your article tries to make MY representative, Diane Watson, say that Pelosi is blocking impeachment because of her desire to remain Speaker -- which is nonsense, and Rep. Watson never said that.
What she did say is that the Speaker is anxious to increase the Democratic caucus size in the House so we can override vetoes (and file impeachments).
Rep. Watson notes that we are at least 30 votes shy of even an impeachment bill passing, and she does not mention the REAL reason impeachment is off the table, namely that we have all of 25 of 67 votes needed in the Senate for conviction.
No. Dobbs is a misinformed anti-immigrant crazy-person. Bill O'Rielly is spreads venom and hate.
Paul in LA @ 133:
So being against illegal immigration is hatemongering according to you? Today, your argument uses "Latino", in the past it would have been "Irish" or "Italian" or "Chinese". This isn't a Latino issue, as you and others are trying to make it; it's a legal issue. To reward illegal immigrants from ANY country is wrong. Why do you hate the law? That's the only "hatemongering" I can see.
And to reply to your guess, he's German, and my other side of the family were Italian immigrants who came here legally and worked here legally and made the little money they made legally. I'm guessing you're too young to know about signs that read "Irish need not apply" and discrimination against lots of other European immigrants. Latinos are the cause celebre of the moment, but they are not unique in immigration terms. They, and everyone else should have to adhere to the laws.
Bobbs is one of the biggest assholes on TV. And CNN is just as bad. They are still trying to compete with the idiots at Fox news.
I see a few racist in this blog.
Cheney @ 96:
Our economy is red hot and our dollar worth more than yours. Why nwould we want to move to the USA...
i admit that i am so sick of the politics of this country that I hang my head in shame.Yes, the politics on BOTH sides of the aisle. Dems pull the same dirty political/smear tactics that they shake their fists at the GOP for committing. I also admit that I am not a raging liberal, but nor am i anything close to an even moderate republican. I think I am pretty progressive. What I don't understand is how someone that opposes seemingly unfettered illegal immigration is by default a racist/bigot. I am not speaking of Dobbs here, just generally. but i am interested to know. Now, I know some uber left wing person is going to curse and spit at me, because that always happens when I write something here that isn't quite liberal enough. As a liberal myself, I can say we seem to be tolerant of anyone that is more liberal than we are but beware the poor bastard that is not quite as left of center as the rest of the thread. I have been spoken to better by Bush supporters that don't agree with anything I have to say than I have been, in the past, by folks on this blog! anyway, that is beside the point. I don't have feelings one way or another about mexican folks living in this country. but immigration rules are immigration rules. I don't think it's okay for Canadians to swarm across the border to the US any more than it is for Mexican people. So are the Brits bigots because they won't allow me to illegally take up residence in London and work in their country? If we directed the anger to the folks that deserve it: the CEO's that reap huge profits for their companies, the Mexican government for being, i assume, amazingly corrupt and inattentive to their people's welfare and lastly to our government for not having secure borders in the first place and not updating our immigration policy despite an obvious need to do so.
My point is this: don't be so quick to everything racism. Personally, I'd be outraged if it were Canadians, Martians or any other group crossing into and residing in my country illegally. Hence the word illegal in front of the word alien.
some people will agree, but i am sure more than one will start cursing at me right about.....
now
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